Attempt to kill the RSSB guru, Gurinder Singh, fails

is it a correct news because none has responded from dera beas…so lets not spread the rumors

That’s horrible, I’m glad the guru ok regardless of what i might think of his beliefs. I’m also glad you are ok, given you “could have” been there in the past.
I want to add more, but am exhausted so hope you’ll take my good wishes in the spirit they were intended, Brian.

How can people be so cruel ? Babaji is not a common man, he knows where what is going on. They are fools who even think of harming him.

Here’s a link to another story about the planned attack:
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/337138,austria-suspected-planning-attack.html

These stupid people got no moral in life, dats why they thought they can harm THE MASTER.BABA JI wants to go every where freely where his followers are.they dont need any security or any protection.
vishal.

unbelievable ,he is a great guru .he gives way to live life .how can people may think of doing so.

I was shocked to hear the news about Gurinder. I am glad he is alright ofcourse. No matter what we may think of him he has the right to life like everyone else…
As with any religion you are bound to get extremists. On the whole, Sikhs per se are fine, tolerant, and open-minded people with high principles.
Extremists only make a near non-existent portion of the the Sikh Community itself. Yet, they have been now, and again a problem with the Radhasoami Faith in the past.
Such extremists tend to regard gurus in general as being fakes, or crooks who are just living off the money of others. But how much do we REALLY know about the 10 Sikh gurus of the past? After all they were a line of HUMAN gurus??
Moreover, it is ofcourse absurd beyond belief that a book (ie. the so-called Guru Granth!!) should be treated as a Living Master…but it was a clever ploy of Gobind Singh (the last Sikh human guru) to ensure the “purity” of the Sikh Teachings..
When I go to Satsang irrespective of whether the present Master is perfect, or otherwise there is a overwhelming sea of higher conciousness of love, and power. You do NOT get this is in “dead” churches, “dead” mosques, or indeed, “dead” gurdwaras…!

its actually very bad . they should be ashamed

Baba ji is not a simple man baba ji is God so they know everything so those person who are envolved in this rubbish work are totally mad. No one can fight with God. And this is a warning for those pers who has planned this be careful in future, they cant do anything to our God-Vicky

LIVE AND LET LIVE

Its so sad to know this-but the persons trying this didnt know what they are upto-trying what against whom! Extremists are always against Saints-its so shameful and sad@

i am surprised,how mortal can kill or murder immortal.

such a shameful and unhuman and foolish act they didnt even know what were they upto and to whom they were thinking of harming,he is the master knows everything

with the exception of Brian, all of the commenters above are obviously crazy cult lunatics.
and a cult leader like GS who goes parading around as if he were some kind of holy gihf guru-king… well he has made himself a target, so i have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
a rich man who flaunts himself by riding around like a king (or guru) in a gilded carriage amongst the common people, invites thieves and robbers… or extremists who hate him and want to kill him.
a wise man, on the other hand, remains humble and ordinary and goes on his way quietly.
it is just a matter of a short time before the certain downfall of a man like that. the now impending apocalypse will not spare those of his ilk. he alone has brought it all upon himself.

I don’t think this is anything new. There were threats against Charan Singh (RSSB guru before gurinder) at the time of my second visit to the dera in 1984. Armed guards were on duty at strategic points in the compound. This seemed weird to me at the time. Why does GIHF need armed guards? Why doesn’t he just adjust the karmic situation from his vantage point in the astral or causal? The guns were pretty funky. Looked like relics from WW I. I saw no modern semi-auto assault rifles. I bet they have them now.
tAo, do you have any links or info on the impending apocolypse you mention? You can send to my email. Thanks.

If you buy into the GHIF storyline, why do believers think that GS would necessarily protect himself ? Take the Christ fable as precedent.

These stupid people got no moral in life, dats why they thought they can harm THE MASTER.BABA JI wants to go every where freely where his followers are.they dont need any security or any protection.
vishal.

unbelievable ,he is a great guru .he gives way to live life .how can people may think of doing so.

I was shocked to hear the news about Gurinder. I am glad he is alright ofcourse. No matter what we may think of him he has the right to life like everyone else… As with any religion you are bound to get extremists. On the whole, Sikhs per se are fine, tolerant, and open-minded people with high principles.
Extremists only make a near non-existent portion of the the Sikh Community itself. Yet, they have been now, and again a problem with the Radhasoami Faith in the past. Such extremists tend to regard gurus in general as being fakes, or crooks who are just living off the money of others. But how much do we REALLY know about the 10 Sikh gurus of the past? After all they were a line of HUMAN gurus??
Moreover, it is ofcourse absurd beyond belief that a book (ie. the so-called Guru Granth!!) should be treated as a Living Master…but it was a clever ploy of Gobind Singh (the last Sikh human guru) to ensure the “purity” of the Sikh Teachings.. When I go to Satsang irrespective of whether the present Master is perfect, or otherwise there is a overwhelming sea of higher conciousness of love, and power. You do NOT get this is in “dead” churches, “dead” mosques, or indeed, “dead” gurdwaras…!

I am a Sat Sangi. Notice, Guru Babaji was not harmed. The rest of us are now on notice, and should be mindful and vigilant when we attend any sat sang where Babaji will be present. Every follower should become a personal body guard and close in around Him, protect Him. Perhaps this is a head’s up for us. Yes, Jesus the Christ, allowed Himself to be crucified. Is this what we, His followers want for our Master? Or is it Divine providence?

Mr. TAO this for you not Upinder sorry Upinder ..GOD just forgive you(tao) what u said..dear u even dont know the power and love the MATER GS..so u said soo..u commented like a child who just do whatever he likes but not try to understand the other.. so dear GD is the master with grace, simple, silent, full of love that is the lamp of life..and u people thought otherway.. actually the fact is the MASTeR is out of u people mind and thoughts..u can never understand his kindness.. because for that u have to be kind and full love.

oh He Gall Hogee!

It is a shemless effort.These people don’t know what they are doing. Baba ji is god and no one can fight with god.

vishal sharma, gpdang, pema sonam, manoj lathwal, jatinder, and robert searle… you guys are all totally nuts.
one way or another, you have all lost your marbles… that is, if you ever had any in the first place.
you just don’t get it.
cult gurus who put themselves up in that sort of exalted position, high up on a pedestal, ususally end up getting shot down… sooner or later.
it’s the way of life. those who pretend holiness, fasle masters who ride in gilded carriages, invite robbers and thieves.
the only master is one who is a master of himself.
those who claim to be a master of others (or allow others to believe in them) are no masters at all. the only ‘master’ is one who has mastered himself alone.
pretentious elitist cult leaders who set themselves up as being holier-than-thou pseudo-gods, are the worst of the worst of humanity. they are crooks, rats and turds. and imo, in their next life they will be a worm in hell.
and so all of you who are so bereft of any self-esteem that you stoop to worship and believe in these crooks… well you are nothing but a bunch of suckers.
and you may likely end up in the same damned place as those whom liars and crooks whom you worship… if you don’t wake up soon and become real human beings.

@Non-believers. The Lord himself instills that faith in us and draws us toward him. If he does not want you to believe then no matter what you will not believe. But remeber when your last hour comes and the angels of death come in front of your eyes, then you will know the opportunity you had.

I was shocked to learn from the indian newspapers that a conspiracy on the life of RSSB HEAD was hatched in vienna by some unscrupulous persons.
These persons did not know that RSSB HEAD is GOD in human form. HE is giving the message of unity to its true origin.
HE is GOD and nobody is able to harm HIM.such persons should accept his guidance absouletly to free themselves from the cycle of death and birth.

To Tara,et al,
I do believe that GS is probably a “maha-crook”. But like you, and me he has a soul, and Higher Self, or Personal God. If any of his predecessors were Perfect then there is every chance in ones meditation that spiritual development would continue apace. As far as I am concerned GS is not a perfect personality but it is my belief rightly, or wrongly that he is linked to higher forces for the good.
I have explained all this before in connection with a) the Sawan Singh quote b)and the ideas of Faqir Chand. Try, and think DIFFERENTLY,AND OUT OF THE BOX. This point goes to the rest of the readers on this blog.
It is too easy to reach obvious conclusions..anyone can do it!!
However, genuine spiritual teachers do exist. One such person is Harjit Singh with whom I had an awakening already described here onsite. The subtle energies of higher conciousness experienced were very real, and far beyond anything you would experience in any church, temple, mosque, or gurdwara…or even on top of the Himalayas!!
Moreover, Harjit is accessible. You can phone him up, and also pick up the energies waves coming through. He does not live in a palace but in a modest home in Southall. As far as I know he is working, and spends most of his spare time in seclusion doing meditation. Like the Southall RS Satsang his house radiates higher energies of conciousnes beyond its perimeters.
There is no initiation. But if a seeker is genuine spontaneous initiation (ie. an awakening as already indicated) will probably occur.
See link if it is working alright
http://www.babafaqirchand.com

God himself never comes on this earth. He comes in the form of simple humanbeing to teach people and to guide them the right path. Baba Ji is the real God. We need the inner eyes to see their presence. No one in this great world can harm Baba Ji as people who planned this rubbish job does not know his almighty powers.He is a great Guru/master who shown the right Path. How can people may think of doing so.

that’s unbelivebale , how can a man kind do that, baba ji was never against any one still people got problem. its a shame.

Tara..
May be the reason why Gurinder has people to protect him(though you claim that he does not need to because he is GIHF…but this is missing the point!) against terrorists especially in India is because the government there WANTS to ensure peace, and stability to continue…otherwise the murder of one, or more of the most prominient gurus would lead to wholescale rioting….

Here’s another article on this subject dated July 31 (today). Headline: “Amarinder Singh condemns plan to attack Radha Soami sect head.”
http://www.zeenews.com/news644860.html

To Rajesh Midha, et al,
“….Baba Charan Singh has conferred his status to “Baba Gurinder Singh”
This is incorrect when examined more deeply.
Charan Singh clearly indicated in his Will he received an order from his inner Master Baba Sawan Singh for Gurinder Singh to be the successor to RS Beas Satsang…even though Charan may well have had some doubts about him…

Tara, even without hearing from Rajesh, I decided to remove his mobile number. I’d feel more comfortable if he left an email address where he could be contacted. Then he could decide whether to share his number with particular people.
Like you said, I’m not sure he thought through the pros and cons of leaving his number, and I want to be sure he doesn’t have problems with the “cons.” But if he reads our comments and really wants to do so, that’s up to him.

good to know BABA JI is ok,i dont know people hates this santmat.We heard songs,attend live concerts and crazy about actors/actresses and why do we hate the good persons who give us a good path? If you dont agree with them just leave it,we like him very much.Please dont try this shamefull act again.

I don’t know how the peoples think to harm such great personalities who are true saint of present world. Its really a matter of shame. But My Master knows everything and all happens by his well only. He knows everything years before what going to happen in future. The guards or police are his followers or sent by God.
Simply no one can think to stand before great MASTER without his well.
We should not waste our usefull time on such poor strategies done by poor brains.
Simply my master Baba gi who is everyones master is greatest.

Rajesh, I”ve done what you asked: remove your comments. I’ve even removed the comments where you asked me to remove your comments. Your messages haven’t been deleted, just unpublished. So if you ever want them restored, let me know.

READ THE DAILY AJIT NEWS PAPER DATED 31JULY.AUSTRIAN POLICE RELEASED 3 PERSONS OUT OF 4 . POLICE HASN`T YET RECOVERED ANY dangerous MATERIAL FROM THESE SO CALLED ACCUSED.

Tara,
Not I, but you seemed to have missed the point ! Why does a GIHF need gun-bearing guards to protect himself ? It is as simple as that.
Yes, you have missed the point again. It is the government which probably wants Gurinder protected. They may well pay for it in part. I do not know the legal set up of this..
Ofcourse, a real GIHF would not need protecting strictly speaking! Yet, it would still be the concern of the government because they do not want any trouble if there was a successful assassination!!Comprenda!!
No, I do not think that GSs predessors would be “pissed off” with him as such. They would see it as the working out of the Will of God. For whatever reason (probably a desire on the Divine to start winding up RSSB) we appear to have an imperfect Satguru.
I did mention before the quote from Sawan Singh, and the Faqir Chand claims which you do not seem to mentally understand in connection with imperfect gurus. I do not see why I have to continually repeat myself.

Here’s a link to the updated story that Gypsy mentioned in a comment above: “Austrian police release three after arrests at religious talk”
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/337254,three-arrests-religious-talk.html

people who attacked my guru are bluddy fool, nonsense, idiot, bitch,kaminey, pig’s children, cockroaches of drain, potty of me and i wanna flush them up.

I wanna say he is the god in human clothes. Those people are stupid who are not understanding him. We shouldn’t harm them as they had come to earth for us only to take us in the feet of god.

i think you people TAO,TARA,Robert are paid off for such roumers..and try to distract the followers of RSSB..but i just want to clear one thing here that those who know RSSB sant mat and path of truth and honesty…will not be distrubed by you guys roumers and miss statments about the master… The master Gurinder sing or any other RSSB guru never claimed that they are the master but we followers knew the fact as we saw the fact inside..we have felt that truth inside..and moreover its a humble request to u guys that dont waist your time and energy for blaiming The MASTER.. the master is so kind that he’ll forgive your sin and give u the wisdom..pls beware of missleading the RSSB followers…
@Rajesh i request you please dont beleave the culprit as they try to misslead you and others… I have checked with many followers and others and in the market too..
there is nothing like that.. this is the only new style to missguide we RSSB followers… but we should have faith in our guru… as there is not a single chance of mistake in him…

i am not able to understand why the people straching this like gum… Radha swami is the pure santmat nothing else.. please dont try to distract and missguide the followers of RSSB.. just because of RSSB MASTER like we people have changed our life in a great manner.. just because of the MASTER grace we are in safe hand.. so no worry wt people write here or outside.. we know our pitha our GOD our MASTER so we don’t require to give anybody explanation.. but this for the people like TARA..TAO.. u people r doing ur work so keep going guys we RSSB followers know wt our MASTER is..so no worry.. we r so blessed and thankfull that we are in light of Gurinder Sing’s…

We Love you Babaji!!
May you live very very long life in your physical body and keep blessing the humanity with your godly love and grace…
God give my whole families life years to my great master as he have to server this humanity and forgive us for our sins..

Harpreet, Navjot Kaur, Prem Jhamb, Rajesh Midha, Satinder, Tashdeep Nagpal, Manoj Lathwal, Gurdeep Singh Dhillon, and others of your kind… pay attention:
IMO…
You are ALL nothing more than a bunch of lame-brained apologists for RS and its blatantly fraudulent and corrupt leader/guru.
You offer nothing more than mindless babble and empty knee-jerk rhetoric.
You have no knowledge or understanding of the real facts.
You are blind suckers and cult sychophants, and your guru is a total sham who manipulates and exploits you.
You cannot prove anything, and you never will.
Your beliefs are based upon a lie.
There have been a great many other fools just like you, throughout the course of human history.
You are doomed to remain trapped in an illusion, a cult, and worshipping a false god.
I really feel sorry for people like you, people who are so foolish and lost.

Robert Searle,
i agree with Tara… i have no interest in your nonsense mental concoctions. i know exactly what rssb teaches, and so does Tara.
you are (quite obviously) yet another apologist for the radha soami cult and its current false guru.
and your ‘woo-woo’ regarding harjit is only more of the same kind of rubbish.
and your politicalnotions about the need for security are mere speculation. the point is that only ordinary mortal humans (not gods) have any need for bodily protection… and that is the point. people who believe that some stupid cult guru is a god with divine power, are quite clearly irrational and delusional, aka insane. so these indian devotees who comment here recently, are therefore insane. but that is a common condition amongst the superstitious and religious minded.
also, you would not have any need for either perfect, or imperfect gurus… if you would but go and derive directly from the source.

Jatinder wrote:-
Well, that’s about as absurd as believing that Gurinder is God, but needs human security ! The RSSB ‘ copy-paste ‘ style of spirituality siphons entire chapters from the Guru Granth and other ‘ holy ‘ books, so maybe they should come up with something entirely unique. What do you say ? And, why does Gurinder want to dress and look like a ‘ Sikh Guru ‘ when RSSB blatantly debunks dogma ? Also, picking a title like ‘ Baba Ji ‘ which is akin to Guru Nanak, could be a termed as clever little ploy ! Sorry, but I think that the churches, gurudwaras and mosques you refer to as ‘ dead ‘ are a shade better than the Satsang you attend. I’ve read most of your comments, it seems like you enjoy an ‘ overwhelming ‘ sense of euphoria. Boy ! You got to go visit the himalayas…
Hello Jatinder:-
If you check the scrptures of any other religion they too converge somewhere or other u will find Dohas or banis of Kabir, Namdas,Tulsidas, sufi saints,Christ in the writing of any religious book(i don’t think any religious guru had ever told that his or her writing’s are personal properties of any sect).
Secondly Baba Gurinder Singh Ji’s dress is same as other Gurus of his faith right from start and I don’t think its emulated from any one.

Thats true our babaji is a living master in a human form, these people who dont understand santmat its useless to make them understand its beyond there reach .we are so lucky to be a part of this path.we love you babaji.

I request to all the followers of rssb please leave d company of non believers please.its not our duty to convince them for santmat.Baba ji knows how HE will conveince them ,in this birth or in the next ‘afterall they are all HIS sons.As respected Bani says” SO BHULAY JISE BHULAI SOI BUJHAY JISE BUJHAINDA|” so plz do finish this topic of controversy. Radha soami.

Dear Site Management Team
Thanks as my request to not to publish my earlier comments has been well accepted.
Dear earlier comments were emotional and may create otherwise impressions. So I further request that may earlier comments must not be published. But now I send my comments and comments being sent from today onwards may be published and these will convey the truth.Rajesh Midha

Brian,
I have a question….
Why didn’t Jesus stop the attacks on him…he knew they were coming, also why didn’t the Sikh Guru’s stop the attacks on them?? After all they were all GIHF.
Thanks,
P

Dear Tara.
I feel pity for you, secondly I don’t want to argue with you on this point coz what’s my faith is mine and whats your’s is ur’s.
I know what my guru is and I don’t think that we need any clarification from anyone.
Regarding scriptures I don’t think you have ever read ur own forget about RSSB. Otherwise u would have never said such a thing.
Like I earlier said the teachings of any Guru are not personal property of any religion they belong to the whole humanity.
I agree that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had said that there would be no guru for the Sikhs after him but mind it RSSB is not for any particular religion or for sikhs its for whole humanity.

I think human itself is God within himself and search to find “Perfect Master”is still on and Ist is to find within yourself 2nd by
virtue of grace someone may search. Being a
strong follower of RSSB ,now its under ????
range .True satisfaction was perceived but
after finding links with Corporates ,now I
think nobody has left the perishable world
untouched. So we all must try the following to make our lives successful. I request all
to read my below mentioned lines ,if found
fit ,have to be followed:
(1) Love with all whether human beings or animals or other creations of world.
(2) Keep always patience and never react to
anyone who misbehaves you .Keep violence aside thoroughly
(3) Make “Love” the theme to survive as it
entails all we need for survival.
(4) In this “Kaliyuga” we must try our best
to have our physique fit by morning walks as
by physical fitness our day activities runs
as we desire.So follow the principle”Health
is Wealth”
(5) Accumulate wealth but with best possible
efforts that peacefulness is not harmed.
(6) Avoid illwillness from root so that love
interse all is best maintained.
(7) Today we see newspapers and through all
sources of Media that Riots and Tensions are
rising ,we must do our best effort to evade.
(8) Lack of Knowledge is most harmful ,so we
must best try to procur knowledge to needed so that all negatives are removed from our social lives.
(9) Best strategy to see the lives happy is to take pains wherever required and meditate
to procur amicable solutions of all discords.
(10) We see that in relationships ,money has
become supreme element for which all relations are kept aside.We must ensure that
sacrifices to take place so that relations
are amicably maintained followinmg the spirit that each one will go back with empty hands .
(11) If we have found that to whom we have
surrendered all is not favouring the desired ethics,we must fololow the above stated 10 principles to live amicably.There
must be no despair as each time whenevr we
are most disappointed ,we reenergise our
confidence level and start the race further
but now with own efforts following the above staed 10. Rajesh Midha

I have accepted This path as my way home I have found the characteristics of Baba Ji to be one which I’m satisfied with. Nothing anyone says can change that. But we should refrain from arguments about religion…wether Baba Ji is real or not. I can say this that I and my family have had many many experiences that have proven to be real in the sense of the master in our daily life and seeing him within and beyond. It’s sad that we fight over realness. Just practice what makes you happy and let other practice what makes them happy.

SAINTS ARE PROTECTED BY THE HIGHER AUTHORITY NO BODY IN THIS WORLD CAN HARM THEM,UNTILL UNLESS THEY THEM SELF WANT TO GO BACK TO ANAMI DESH,THEY ARE VERY WELL PROTECTED,SO DONT LET US MAKE A HO HA ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING.

I don’t know from where they get all this nonsense from ? I was there on both 2 days of satsang and Baba ji’s visit in Vienna . It wasn’t such a big deal as they claimed it to be in the news. We were all sitting inside the hall waiting for Baba Ji and then some Austrian police men walk in and escort an Indian Sikh outdoor and there they confronted him and he revealed there were others inside too . There were no explosives or such . I think he just wanted to protest and create problems .
Anyways everybody had a good time and were very fortunate to see Baba Ji and attend the Q & A’s later .
Sunil

babaji,know each and every thing
woh ek-2 chij di khabara rakhda hai,babaji nu sab pata hai.he is a god.
i really feel sad to hear this kind of news.

@ Tara, you dont know what you are saying or what you mean. Ignorence is prevailing your mind. try to differenciate between good n evil. if you do not keep good opinion abpout anyone then you dont have to even keep nagitive views at least when it comes to someones emotions and faith.

Tara, I dont ever recall any message from Dera about discussing RSSB on the internet. You are wrong about that. What Dera wants stopped are the non official videos on you tube and non official web sites about RSSB which i agree with.
But lets be honest here we shouldn’t be arguing on who’s write and who’s wrong. God is not just for RSSB initiates he is for the creation. We are all on our own paths to help us gain that salvation that we all look for. After all Baba Ji has said it himself that it would be ignorant for him to say that this is the only path…it is one of the paths. So for people like me I have accepted the path and Baba Ji as my master to help me gain that salvation that I’m looking for. For others it maybe different path and different master. Live and let live…2 things which should never be argued are 1)Politics and 2)Religion….

pm, hey, life would be a lot more boring if we couldn’t argue about politics and religion.
Also, here’s the directive from RSSB regarding Internet discussions (got this from the Yahoo Radha Soami studies group). Looks like you’ve been going against the Guru’s Will. Bad karma!
SCNI refers to the South Central USA RSSB newsletter, I’m pretty sure.
————————
[MAY 1996]
Use of Electronic Media for Sant Mat Communications
As a follow-up to the statement in the March issue of SCNI regarding the use of E-Mail and the Internet for Sant Mat communications, we have recently received the following letter.
“With access to electronic media such as the Internet and the Web Site now being available to many in this age of communication, it is found that they are being used increasingly for the exchange of information between satsangis and other groups concerning Radha Soami Satsang Beas and the spiritual teachings of Sant Mat. This information may be factually correct; however, there may be inaccuracies in either of fact or interpretation. Sometimes we are portrayed positively, sometimes negatively.
Naturally, satsangis can get perturbed at seeing us presented in an
inaccurate manner or interpreted in an incorrect way. It is emphasized, however, that our path is one of pure spirituality, and concerns an individual personally. It is a path where we try to avoid controversies. We do not want to react to others, criticize others, nor to create any kind of disharmony or unpleasantness with anyone by pursuing the matter unnecessarily.
Therefore, it would be better to ignore whatever may appear on the
electronic media concerning ourselves. We need not bother or worry ourselves about how other portray us or see us, even if they view us in an unfavourable light.
Satsangis are advised not to use E-mail, or other media such as Internet to conduct satsangs, formal or informal, or to communicate or distribute Sant Mat teachings, Sant Mat literature, Sant Mat related photographs, satsangi names, addresses and initiation data, or other similar material of
confidential nature.
In addition, Web-Sites & Home Pages should not be used for any purpose at all connected with Sant Mat.”

“After all Baba Ji has said it himself that it would be ignorant for him to say that this is the only path…it is one of the paths.”
–IMO, it would be strange for the Baba Ji to say that this (RSSB) is not the only path. Redirecting someone to another path wouldn’t be a smart thing to do. Are there several forms of Salvation, or only one?
Why all these paths to only one Salvation?

“So for people like me I have accepted the path and Baba Ji as my master to help me gain that salvation that I’m looking for.”
–Nothing wrong with this person searching for his/her conceptualized Salvation, that he/her is looking for. Likewise, I can see the need to find a “salvation-finder” type person to help in this finding. If this found salvation isn’t what I’m looking for, then I would simply find a new Salvation-finder and go down a different path.
I prefer a “high” quality Salvation. Therefore, I need to find the very best Salvation-finding guru. Please, nothing cheap for me. I now go forth, with my chin held high….

Hi Brian,
But its something that I myself may be at fault for not something I would consider Karma…but it is true how accurate can it be if we assume something and put it on the web and its been twisted and added onto. The Guru’s will goes far beyond posting on the internet.
Also I think we should refrain from arguments and have more of a discussion. Your view is different from mine and should be able to discuss and not kill each other. This is what has caused all the grief in the world people thinking that they are better than others and which leads to our emotions getting out of control and leads to words which are said which may pierce ones hearts. Bashing one is not rite wether the person is worshiping a rock or god in human form. We all have our own levels of understanding what is rite and whats wrong for us is something that comes from our hearts.
Thanks
Pm

pm, I agree with you. Yes, our understanding of what is right and wrong comes from our hearts. Absolutely.
If we all admit to this, and don’t claim that our own personal feeling about right or wrong comes from God, or some other absolute source, then we can get along much more smoothly.
Like I said in another comment, my wife feels there is one way to maintain a sink. I have another feeling. We can discuss the pros and cons of wiping a sink down after each use, with neither of us believing that one way is the absolute right way.
But what if one of was considered to be “perfect,” with a special knowledge of what is right and wrong? This would mess up our discussing, and our relationship. My wife would simply say, “I know what’s right, and this is how we’re doing to do things in this house.”
(Actually, this isn’t too far from how things actually are — which is the case in a lot of marriages, where the wife rules the nest and the husband rules… something … if I could just think of it… oh, the remote control!)

baba ji know each and every think ,what is going on in this world.thos people who trying to do this, never get a head……………………………radha sowami to all who love baba ji =)

Tara, thanks for adding the reminder about this blog’s comment policy. I don’t like to not publish comments that have been submitted, especially if someone has ranted long and hard on one.
But people need to be at least minimally thoughtful, respectful of others, and make some sense. Here’s an example that came in today of a comment that won’t be published. It ends with:
————–
……..ny satsangi cn answer ur bullshit perfectly well but mare hue ko kya maarna? r u like so dumb seriously cant u see u v been at mistake all d tym u nvr did sewa wid hrt ….u nvr did meditate …u jst were foolin urself!try again i suggest ..this tym wid remorse for ur sins n luv in ur heart ….t ll work..5th sept is satsang at dera ….take ma wrds! gd bls ya radsha soami PS:seriously i tried ma bst to b gud wid u….still if i hve crossed d limits f hw one sud b tokin to an elder m so sorry!but tum kaam he aise kr rhe ho!lolz
—————
Dude, I don’t expect everybody to write perfect English, but I really can’t understand a lot of what you’re saying. (Maybe I don’t text message enough.)
And no offense, but your comment started off as shown below. Hey, I was 18 once and thought I knew a lot. Which, I didn’t. You might want to consider listening to people who are older and wiser than yourself with a little more thoughtfulness before dashing off a stream of consciousness response.
—————–
how dare u?who do u think u are?if u urself r absurd…..ok perfectly fine……but u v gt no rite hurt sentiments of millions……..?????????matlab yaar!pagal ho kya tum!!!!!i am 18 !turned 18 this march n i cn understand hw dumb you actually are…..
——————–

I have noticed a number of posts (presumably of Asian origin) in which the English is poor.Some of it if I am not mistaken may even verge onto the threatening about criticising Gurinder. Such sources may be from so-called Satsangis.
However, Sant Mat clearly states that even those who criticise the Guru will not be sent to hell but rather forgiven!!! Indeed, Charan Singh said that “Critics are our best friends!!!” This sentiment though may not necessarily be shared by Gurinder…but ofcourse if he is a “True Master” he would not seriously criticise anyone in the public arean. Toerance, and forgiveness of others is all part of the Sant Mat teaching which some people may forget about onsite.

A MESSAGE TO BRIAN HINES.
As you have already been published in the proper sense of the word it might be a good idea to turn “investigative journalist” and write an expose on the RSSB. Such a book could be entitled Cult Exposed, or something like that….You would probably make more money out of that than your other works!!!
May be you could co-author it with David Christopher Lane?? Who knows!
I suspect the above idea has passed through your mind…

Robert,
“However, Sant Mat clearly states that even those who criticise the Guru will not be sent to hell but rather forgiven!!!”
–What would someone have to do to be sent to hell? Specify a Guru sending to hell act. In addition, describe Hell, according to RSSB literature. Thanks Roger

Stupid if someone says that we can’t understand God. Perhaps I can’t but assuming God follows logic someone will one day or together we will. If God can not be understand it must be because he acts irrational.
So if Gurinder says we don’t understand relicare than he must take the time to explain.

no one can harm babaji,those people who tried to harm baba ji. They might be in big mistake as there are lots of fake babas in india,so they think babaji is one of them, but they donot know the reality, now its in front them.,,,,,,just use your brain how babaji knows that someone there in parking with their foolish ideas,,,,come on he is the one who creates us.

who can harm d one whoz tkin care f all d universe n beyond!
strange ppl…..but nt their fault …they dun knw d truth!

Both avarice and sin are the King and Minister and falsehood is the Master of Minit. Lust, the assistant official, is summoned and consulted and they all sit together and chalk out evil plans.
The subjects are blind and, without wisdom, they satisfy the Official’s fire or greed with bribe carrion. The divines dance, play musical instruments and disguise and decorate themselves. They shout aloud and sing of epic poems and heroes tales. The fools call themselves scholars and with devices and cavils, they love to amass wealth. The virtuous disfigure their meditotious acts by asking for the door of salvation. They call themselves continent leave their home and hearth and know not the way of life. imperfect and done call himself imperfect. Everyone deems himself perfect and none call himself imperfect. If the weight of honour be put into the hind scale, then alone, O Nanak, the man appears properly weighed.

No one can harm the perfect guru,, Baba ji is a unique power in a human body, He knew everything going on in this world and beyond this world.

translation:
raj = a brain-less babbling bonehead.
surbhi = an illiterate babbling lunatic.
ganpat rai = a power-less know-nothing goon
babaji = a soul-sucking vampire wolf in sheep’s clothing.

you brainless, evil people, try to belive in live and let live!!!!!who has the power to decide what is wrong or what is right??? dats just god !!! ok!!! n for those who think that BABAJI is fake and oll that.,.,give me an answer of this question,.,., why babaji could nt been attacked by those 4 dickheads,.,.,.,.,n babaji didn run away like otha cowards, k.,.,he stayed thr and did satsang, eve afta d incident!!!!!! he knows everythng k and he doesnt need protection frm anyone,,.,.,
pl

A GOD who tells us a way to meet GOD and attack on such Guru it shows that the terrorism has lack of sense. They should also listen satsangs of BABA JI.

Guys, what is this fuss about???
What are you folks fighting over? The whole discourse needs a revisit and questioning over the need of this debate.
Someone is preaching something and there are people who agree with him and some who disagree. Why can’t both these lots stay at home in their beliefs and opposition? An attempt to answer the existential questions is a personal enterprise and certainly not something which can be carried out over a blog like this.
I do not know about GSD and his teachings, but what infuriates me is since time immemorial man has been trying to influence another man’s beliefs – spiritual or religious. We’ve screwed up big time with the idea of God and various religions. Let’s keep our beliefs very very personal since the relationship between man and God is extremely personal.
Nietzsche (Friedrich, not the blogger here) by the way went insane trying to oppose Christian values of empathy and kindness. Ironically, his last sane emotion was that of empathy when he saw a horse collapse under the weight of a cart in Vienna and held horse’s head and wept.
Point is, life has this uncanny habit of surprising us with what it is about. Reason is very good, but an attitude of openness and tolerance towards anything other than what we are used to can take us a long way.

@tAo
oh boy !wtf crap is tat?Idun think u r very gud wid “translations”(not tat u r gud at anything else for that mtr ,xcept for givin dumb logics fcourse)
gimme 1 gud reason to support tat u r sane n dun cum straight from a mental asylum!
strange tat dumb-ass mudheads like u come here to judge odrs!
u ppl r strange n stupid at d same tym!n top f it u seem to b actually takin pride in being a lunatic f highest order!…..
CONCLUSION: IF U REPLY BAK AT BARKIN DOGS U R JST MAKIN URSELF FALL TO THEIR LEVEL! SO NO POINT REPLYING TO UR RIDICULOUS BULLSHIT!
RADHA-SWAMI TO ALL SATSANGIS HERE!

Ofcourse, if there are real Satsangis here they should not criticize others, or use insulting language. This is contrary to the the Teachings of the Saints. Strictly speaking, such Satsangis should not even be debating Gurinder Singh on here…if ofcourse they are genuinely following the Teachings….moreover, if one believes in Babaji he does not require others to verbally defend him!!!

I’m totally lost for words reading the vicious comments on this site, believers or non-believers. Believe what you may, everyone has right to choose their path, if we ourselves can’t prove the ‘truth’ who are we to slash others? What right do any of us have over anyone? None.
Get on with your lives, life is very short. I’m feel very ashamed as a grown up human being to read such verbal attacks on this site. At the end of the day, we will live with our conscience, good or bad. When we die we will ‘result’ in our actions – good or bad. So live and let live and let others be!

Roger asked,
What would someone have to do to be sent to hell? Specify a Guru sending to hell act. In addition, describe Hell, according to RSSB literature.
I think the whole creation is considered to be hell according to satsangs of RSSB, anyway the answers to some quesitons by the True Master, Maharaj Charan Singh of RSSB could be very much helpful.
….Saints come into this world with the key, this world being a big jail we are all in, each serving his own sentence according to his karma, fate or destiny, whatever you want to call it. So, saints just open the gate for us and set us free to go back to the Lord. Nothing can compare withe their mercy and grace.
Every soul has a two-fold purpose: First, to help ourselves, to get redemption from the mind, to get release from the mind, to make ourselves purer and second, to help others to come on the path. Naturally, when anyone gets something very precious, he is always anxious to share it with those whom he loves. He is anxious to share that treasure with his friends and with the people whom he is interested.
However, if we have not found a Living Master and refuse to travel that path, refuse to think about the Lord, have absolutely no devotion for Him, have no desire whatsoever to go Home, we will not continue to get a human body; we have to go down into a lower species.
But a satsangi, one who is initiated by True Master will not reincarnate into animal form, even if his karma was bad, he will not be sent lower than the human birth. It is not necessary for that soul to come back into the animal form. We do not come down. We go up. Such a person may get another human form and in that form he will have to go through all those bad karmas, but he will not go down into a lower species.
If People do wrong they have to come back according to their karmas, into whatever species their karma designtes, even in the form of animals. But Not Initiates, they will never go backwards. There are no failures in Sant Mat.
Once being initiated a disciple never looses the association with his Master, but he will not remeber his teachings and initiation if he comes back into this world. As a human being he will forget as soon as he takes another birth. But if he has not to come back and has to go to some higher stages, he will remember…..
So it is not the Gurus who send the human beings to hell, it is their karmas, on the contrary these kind hearted Masters save us by coming back to this creation in animal forms, but of Course, initiation by a Living Master is a must.

no one can do anything against babaji because
babaji have blessing of huzur maharaj ji.

Suki,
This is not “The Kind, Gentle, Polite, Tolerant, Sweet, Politically Correct, Church of the Churchless”. It is “Church of the Churchless” period.
Juan,
Why do you believe what you wrote in your comment above?

Brian,
thanks for allowing these texting rssb trolls and their garbage comments to show themselves for being the unstable angry and completely irrational asses that they are.
surbhi writes:
“wtf crap”, “dumb logics”, “mental asylum”
“dumb-ass mudheads like u”, “u seem to b a lunatic f highest order”
…and other examples of such fine rssb satsangi behavior.
and then surbhi concludes with:
“UR RIDICULOUS BULLSHIT RADHA-SWAMI TO ALL SATSANGIS HERE”
need i say any more? no doubt these sort of comments are going to start getting deleted as soon as they have sufficiently served as object lessons which reflect how very disturbed many of these rssb cultists tend to be.

Tara,
you say you’re wondering where RSSB is headed ??
well perhaps the following excerpt (including the relevant links at the bottom) will give you the general direction in which things are headed…
“Systems without a basic integrity cannot hold themselves together, whether they are political, religious or commercial enterprises. It’s all falling apart and can only be held together by force and false information. The power of The Apocalypse is focusing a destructive and revealing light into the temples of darkness, which has imprisoned the people of the world in ceaseless, rotating treadmills of drudgery and abandoned hope.
“This light, which is the light of irresistible change, is sending terror into the hearts of those who have accepted conditions that are in direct conflict with the urge of human freedom and those on the verge of being liberated by it are locking their arms into the bars of their prisons in a death hold on the forces that have imprisoned them. It’s not a pretty site. Many people are losing themselves in complicated electronic objects that blot out the world around them. Pornography has replaced romance and religious institutions that were designed to promote the message of divine liberators have become money changing rooms that are the principal assets of the enemy, that the liberators came to expose and destroy. Christianity has become murder incorporated.
“We have no choice but to go through the destruction of all these false gods of a dying time period. Those of us embracing what lies beyond these hypocritical constructs are aware of the age of brotherhood that waits beyond the transformation of the old world. One is in either of two main positions, either wedded or welded to the departing horrors, or reaching into what waits to be constructed. You know who you are supposed to be, or you have no clue beyond lies promoted by those whose purpose is to keep you ignorant of yourself and your true nature.
“I find myself in the ‘any day’ mode. One day it will be upon us and everything else is a waiting room of uncertainty. I am waiting too, because what comes will dispose me and all of the rest of us into the roles and destinies that are required, either for the new industries that will build the conditions of the new world, or as compost for it.
“It is the approaching change of consciousness that is going to transform all of our perceptions into new and sometimes frightening states. Those who cannot embrace these deep personal changes are going to be recycled because they have no place in what is coming. Opportunity for personal growth and the elimination of our common darkness is available to everyone but it appears that only a minority is and will be availing itself of possibilities that are benevolent beyond our present ability to apprehend.”
http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com
http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com
http://lesvisible.blogspot.com

@ tAo
bro, i really want u to check ur own language before u dash out criticizing others….all i did was answered back in your language….in no way do i want to get into a war wid u!
@Robert Searle
yeah actually u r right! i should have not lost my cool.but there is a limit of taking d crap!i couldnot hold it and just came down to their level which ofcourse i now realize a satsangi should have not done.but as i said m working on my “temper control”lolz

THIS IS NOT TRUE ONLY PAPPER HAS TO RUN SHOW THEY HAVE DONE AND SAME WAS CONFOMED BY DERA BEAS SO PLEASE STOP THIS ISSUE HER

this is my message to all satsangis brother and sister, radha soami..our master is not just a human being, he is the supreme power which has been sent by the lord and the lord himself present in him. he himself is the lord.He is our father and he takes care of us, No body can harm Him. he is god on the earth. but some people due to jealousy try to make his image fade. but it is oer duty to do our all the dities honestly in our satsang ghar(centers). he is having pain because of us, for us. we can we do for him, we can follow his instruction,said by him in all the discources. we must remember him all the the time.mean to say,all the outer world want to make him disturb and tease him but we,his children, shold not disturb him. so dears, please follow his instruction honestly even we should not disturb him. let Him smile let my father smile. plz let our father smile. feel his grace.
no body can make him harm. he protects us then how can he be harmed. it is always happened in history.
we need not take any tension, we must do our dity honestly i.e. meditation and just meditation.
thanks
with radha soami greetings
surender

surender,
How do you know that your master is the “lord” “supreme power” “god on earth” “no one can harm him”…in the dualistic, separate sense you present it?
Consider that this life is your dream. What if YOU are the lord, supreme power, god on earth and no one can harm what YOU really are?
Consider that you are him, he is you and that I am you and you are me and we are him and he is us. This is already the case. There is no “other”. There is no “where” to go, nothing to be done but to just be It.

@Camus
Nietzsche (the philosopher not the blogger) wanted to destroy his culture (the Christian) that he perceived as a false one, based on domination in the name of good. He said the only thru Cristian was Jezus.
Some of these cultural things you also see in RS where some Satsangis are dominating the other as a false expression of the gure. It might have come so far that even the guru is dominating his followers just to squeeze the money. There are some justifiable reasons for thinking that. I mean if you let a man work for you and you sell what he build for a lot of money (isn’t that what happens on the dera) than you are obliged to pay the man for his service. In our country at least a minimum wages. You can go to jail for not doing that.
But Camus (the philosopher not the blogger) is very interesting too 🙂 He came to a new ethical structure and culture where N only destroyed. But N was necessary at his time. They also say that he died with a very serene attitude. He didn’t speak rational anymore because of his madness that was very likely a madness that he could not have avoided and had certainly nothing to do with his thinking.
As for the people that are afraid of hell. I think God has a very special place in hell for the people that misuse his children or guide them into there selfish directions. G has something to fear for himself if that where the case!

Want to add something.
Think about how the Christian culture in the west originated out of the Romans that used the teachings of Jezus to fit in with their power system. Every solder was a slave that had no option but to obey. That made them so successful in conquering the world. Later the Christian crusaders did the same.
I sometimes wonder if Shiv Dayal Singh was the only true Satsangi? Didn’t they use the teaching of Shiv Dayal Singh and ran wild with them to compromise their need for landworkers?

Baba is tusi great ho…..really i love u

Ok, I do have some unclear points left:
-are Satsangi’s that loose their believe removed from the Dera even if they have worked there for years? Do they get a pension?
-is someone checking if the land deal money stays within RSSB and that it is not transferred to Religare? Is it possible for Satsangi’s to see the annual financial reports and balances where money comes from and where it goes?
-What happens to Sewadars that get ill? Do they get the money for medical treatment from RSSB? In other words are they insured?
-Does the Guru get a salary from RSSB or is he living from his family money?
-Does anyone know these numbers and facts, is there any clarity in all this?
What alarms me is that I read in the newsmagazins here locally is that they are very subtle promoting donations. I read that the Satsangi’s that are allowed to make a donation are the very lucky few. The representative never mentioned how lucky the donators where in the past, it is a recent development. If I had the money I would certainly donate it to a real charity organization like the eyecamp by example 😉
I can’t understand how they stopped the eyecamp if the whole reason for donating was to help another person, to become less selfish. What a bad example. And now building a library that only has books that promote RSSB. It seems like the whole view of the Guru is to expand the quantity of members by also increasing the quality of the members, making a strike in the market as an exclusive cult for the few happy chosen. That certainly works better than lowering the entrance these days but the end goal is the same. To get as much worldwide donators as possible. I do believe the so called Great Master started this approach.
The other day I was rereading the philosophy from the masters that was written by the Great Master. I now saw that it was a bunch of jotted down thoughts, there was no system or systematical approach beyond the repetition of what was common knowledge among the group.
The yoga of the sound is a technique that was developed by some yogi’s that found it effective in their lives. I think to have an effect from it you should life like these early yogi’s did in total concentration for long hours a day and not in the way that we in the west are doing it now. We are allowed to sit as we like, no one is checking if we even have the basics right. It all doesn’t matter because the Guru will help. In practise very few benefit. This kind of yoga is not at all fit for the way we life here is my opinion and it was a shame to bring it to the west. The only reason for doing that anyhow that I can think of is money.
But perhaps I am to skeptical now, please correct me if possible. Thanks for the post that describes how the Dera Sewadars are living. I’m glad they do not life in boxes or very poor shelters, that they have some water and other luxury’s in their life’s if I understand it well.

Thanks Tara but there is no hurry.
To people that might be offended by my post. These questions are in my mind and I have to let them out and see what the truth is. In the past G was very tolerant to confronting questions. If there is nothing to hide than that will show too.
Regards.

only one question from all RADHASOAMIES, if your guru is god then what is the necessity of Such security. Why he afraid from his death. Are our ancient sants were like that ? definitely not. I never understand the stretegy of these RSS who are the great cheater,they spoke from saints of Sanatan Dharam and thereafter they criticise Sanatan. Shame for them

yes

This link may be of interest..
http://www.archive.org/stream/ConfessionsOfAGodSeeker/Confessions_of_a_God_Seeker_djvu.txt

Interesting to know Brian.
Several pearls of wisdom in this thread:
– “a wise man, … remains humble and ordinary and goes on his way quietly.”
– “the only master is one who is a master of himself.”
– “Your beliefs are based upon a lie.”
most excellent lessons tAo. thx.
regards all

Radha Soami to all.
I was among the lucky ones to attend to Baba Ji’s satsangs in Athens – Greece last week. I have been initiated by Maharaj Charan Singh Ji and thanks to His Grace I have seen Him once before His departure from this world.
What I would like to say is that -to me- is pointless to make such a fuss and spend so much time in discussions as to whether Baba Ji or anybody else (Guru or Yogi or Sufi or whatever) is real or not. My strong belief is that this realisation is something that comes right from within by His Grace and by our honest effort to achieve self realization and then God realization.
Regarding the big fuss again about Baba Ji’s involvement in shares of Religare etc and of his 2 sons, please don’t forget that it has happened in the past that a Master was born a king or a prince as well as again a poor man. maybe Regligare is something more than what it seems to be. Maybe its purpose of existence serves other goals of what people think.. Just think if for example Baba ji’s son to work for a crook boss who would have force him to do things not decent i.e. cheating and using unacceptable methods or force him to make use of his father’s position as a Guru……….
So don’t hurry to draw conclusions so easily because as Kant said: “Things are not as they look like”,
Radha Soami to all satsangis here in this forum and yes WE ARE LUCKY to have still a living Master among us.

Gypriot Satsangi:
“to me- is pointless to make such a fuss and spend so much time in discussions as to whether Baba Ji or anybody else (Guru or Yogi or Sufi or whatever) is real or not.”
— this comment is pointless. and if you don’t like discussions, then don’t participate in them.
“this realisation is something that comes right from within by His Grace and by our honest effort to achieve self realization and then God realization.”
— thats only your opinion. i regrd it as delusional. and so-called realization is a myth.
“please don’t forget that it has happened in the past that a Master was born a king or a prince as well as again a poor man.”
— you have no idea what you are talking about. there are no masters, except those who have self-mastery. you have a slave mentality. and the RS leader was not born a king, nor did he earn any wealth… it was given to him. and he is involved in a conflict of interest… which makes him a hypocrite and corrupt.
“maybe Regligare is something more than what it seems to be. Maybe its purpose of existence serves other goals of what people think.”
— oh yeah sure. thats a load of rubbish.
“think if for example Baba ji’s son to work for a crook boss […] or force him to make use of his father’s position as a Guru.”
— but that is exactly what he is doing. you are obviously an apologist for the guru cult scam.
“So don’t hurry to draw conclusions so easily because as Kant said: “Things are not as they look like”
— yes… just like your guru is really not what he wants to appear to be.
“and yes WE ARE LUCKY to have still a living Master”
— i’d say that you are quite UN-LUCKY. you have nothing, nothing but a naive childish fantasy, an illusion. you will very likely end up faced with a very rude awakening someday.

This is a response to many in here.
tao,
explicit and direct question to you.
Do you believe in Aliens,,,and do u believe that there are alien or lets say reptiles amongst us, who control government and organizations. Do you believe that there are beings from outer space who contact human beings, either malevolent or good in heart who are involved in our day to day activities. Moreover, if the answer is somewhat vaguely yes, then tell me which authors.beings that post online etc you advice people to listen to. For example, David Icke, Ra, Wilcott etc. I know you posted something about this issue on the past.
Secondly, I found this remark by someone called Ander who was critiquing Brian on this site.
Ander wrote:
“Brian on “Ridiculing my own Religious Fundamentalism”
July 12th 2007
— Initiated disciples (satsangis) were supposed to meditate 2 ½ hours a day. I’d set a timer on my watch. Before midnight I’d make sure that it registered 150 minutes of meditation time. Sometimes I’d stare at the seconds going by until I could hit the stop button after the magic 150th minute passed. Not exactly deep concentrated meditation, but I was precisely obeying the letter of the RSSB law, which gave me great fundamentalist satisfaction
Brian said on this post:
“I meditated every day for over thirty years. Give me a break. Many of those years, for the prescribed two and a half hours. I’ve been a disciple. I’ve walked the walk. I just never had the experiences that RSSB claims a disciple will have in meditation.”
“Minute Counting yoga” and “Surat Shabd yoga” are two very different types of meditation.”
AGAIN!!! IN RECENT DAYS you insist…you insist…with the same rhetoric.
Brian August 16 2010
“For about thirty-five years, from age 20 to 55 (I’m now sixty-one), I meditated assiduously in accordance with the tenets of Radha Soami Satsang Beas — an India-based guru-centered organization whose teachings claim to be able to unite the soul with God.
However, what I learned from my immersion in the deep waters of organized religosity is applicable to almost every sort of spiritual path (to mix watery and earthy metaphors).”
let me re-peat what brian wrote on july 12 2007.
“Sometimes I’d stare at the seconds going by until I could hit the stop button after the magic 150th minute passed. Not exactly deep concentrated meditation, but I was precisely obeying the letter of the RSSB law, which gave me great fundamentalist satisfaction”
This is not what the RSSB law says. The RSSB says if you read the books and listen to the guru, that 10 minutes loving and concentrated meditation is better than 5 hours of abstract…concentration…”Not exactly deep concentrated meditation” as Brian says. Mira mi amigo…Cut the bs…at least,…at least…be straight.
What I just wrote where your words not mine and I am deeply sorry that I was forced to repeat them to you…It is what you scientifically oriented people like to say…as SCIENTIFIC FACTS.
NO CONCENTRATED LOVING MEDITATION= SAMSARA OF THE MIND.end of the story.
(Sorry for the caps btw)
[[[Furthermore…To tao, Tuscon and Brian,Tara.
You deny the existence of an inner shabd?? Fro crying out loud…Say anything you want..follow any buddhist and zen medi. you want..but if deny that an inner shabd exists,,,I tell you my friends,,you are all idiots. Idiots with the etymological sense.]]
Furthermore as Adam says on | July 29, 2008 at 03:34 AM in responce to the exact same comment by Ander:
“RSSB never claims all disciples will have experiences. It is clear, according to letters by Charan Singh, that a disciple who has not made much progress, but has done his/her duty (meditation, sticking to the vows, generally putting in a good faith effort) that this person is still successfully following the path. Our expectations of success and failure can allow us to interpret whether or not meditation is working or not, which may or may not be true.
This is to suggest that when people say “I have been meditating for thirty years and…” as if this makes them an expert, they might want to rethink this. Playing golf for thirty years doesn’t ensure results when you step out onto the golf course today…”
I agree 100%.
And then you, Brian, asnwer with a very confusing message..(Brian | July 31, 2008 at 09:15 AM) to Ander
“Ander, I agree. This points out the ridiculousness of the meditation vow.”
-Excuse me? What are we talking about here if not mediation, contemplation. Everything in life is meditation, from taking a sh…to throwing hoops. Please man. The two and half hourse is just to say, give 10% of your day to meditation and when you retire give 50%.
Then you said
“Yet it is indeed a vow. At the time of initiation you don’t commit to meditate for as long as you can concentrate fully — which could be for five or ten minutes.”
-This does not really make sense. Again you contradict yourself.You are actually correct but in an already contradictory self indulging crying discourse. You like to complain basically. If you want experiences pop another acid from the 60s or do a peyote trip. Try Salvia.
Then you, Brian, say,
“No, RSSB says that two and a half hours of meditation is the thing, regardless of the degree of concentration. (However, Charan Singh said that ten minutes of “real” meditation is much better, a point I’d make frequently in my satsang talks.)”
-Again, ultimate confusion. Who is this RSSB guy. Find him and kill him. If your Fuc*** Guru says this…then stick to what your Fuck*** said. I have never met RSSB I do not know him. ALL the books from the masters place more attention to concentration than the 2.5 hours. Again you are being literal. The 2.5 hours is to give 10% of your day. Many paths advice half an hour, others advice ten minutes in the morning. Others advice long retreats. Sant mat advices to make it PART OF YOUR LIFE.The two and half hours indicate just that. To make it part of yours daily life. Dont split hair, kill RSSB and listen to the Guru that initiated not to your imaginary friend that is called RSSB.
Now lets move to TUSCON:
Another explicit question. You write nice poems, non dualist pretty poems. Pretty is the word. The nice sunsets in AZ make good coctails with the local cannabis.
Question: Do you eat meat?
Love to you all.
ps.Cypriot Satsangi..You are correct in what you are saying. but this blog, has been going on for so long that if you do not know the inconsistencies that each each person who critiques Santmat possess in their writtings is difficult to argue. For example, the treatment you received from Tao is normal. He has the same exact text for everyone. They all wake up in the morning and meditate on this churchless blog and with acute concetration try to destroy anyone who writes something loving the Master. Its poinless to try. Its also a waste of time to go back in the archive to find this inconsistencies. Take my word. They are confused, crying babies who have a problem with the sacred and are stuck up with the profane. Just like a Holywood movie.
My advice to you B, T, T, T is to go GS and apologize.

No-body, I’m impressed that you spend so much time reading my blog posts. Gee, you know more about what I’ve written than I do. If I ever can’t remember something I’ve said, I guess I can ask you.
Keep it up. If you continue opening your mind to fresh ideas, some cool breezes of reality might blow in.

nodody,
you asked:
“tao, explicit and direct question to you. Do you believe in Aliens,,,and do u believe that there are alien or lets say reptiles amongst us, who control government and organizations.”
— no, i do not “believe” in aliens, or that alien reptiles control government.
“Do you believe that there are beings from outer space who contact human beings, either malevolent or good in heart who are involved in our day to day activities.”
— i do not know whether or not there are beings from outer space… so no, i don’t “believe”.
“tell me which authors.beings that post online etc you advice people to listen to.”
— i don’t advise people to listen to any online “authors”.
“For example, David Icke, Ra, Wilcott etc.”
— i am not familar with those people you mention, with the exception of Icke who is somewhat well known. but i don’t follow his theories, nor have i advised anyone to listen to him.
“I know you posted something about this issue on the past.”
— i really don’t think so. and i am pretty sure about that. i don’t even know what issue you are referring to. perhaps you could be a bit more specific?
i think you are mistaken. the only person that i know that i have mentioned in the past is alex jones and his infowars.com radio talk show. but alex jones does not ever talk about aliens from outer space. not even remotely.
“This is not what the RSSB law says.”
— is there an RSSB “law”?? i don’t think so.
“To tao, Tuscon and Brian,Tara. You deny the existence of an inner shabd??
— well is there an “inner shabd”?? maybe, and maybe not.
“follow any buddhist and zen medi. you want..but if deny that an inner shabd exists,,,I tell you my friends,,you are all idiots.”
— not all teachings and meditations accept this notion of shabd. and just because you say and believe in shabd, does not make other people idiots. as a matter of fact, it quite narrow-minded of you.
“a disciple who has not made much progress, but has done his/her duty (meditation, sticking to the vows, generally putting in a good faith effort) that this person is still successfully following the path.”
— well thats one opinion of success.
“Who is this RSSB guy. Find him and kill him. If your Fuc*** Guru says this…then stick to what your Fuck*** said.”
— i don’t care what your guru or anyone says.
“listen to the Guru that initiated not to your imaginary friend that is called RSSB.”
— thats for you to do. i don’t listen to gurus or to the rssb cult.
“Question: Do you eat meat?”
— i eat whatever god provides.
“Cypriot if you do not know the inconsistencies that each each person who critiques Santmat possess in their writtings is difficult to argue.”
— and what exactly are these nconsistencies?
“the treatment you received from Tao is normal. He has the same exact text for everyone.”
— that is hardly the case. no two comments are exactly the same.
“They all […] with acute concetration try to destroy anyone who writes something loving the Master.”
— thats only natural. thats the yin and the yang of it. the harder they come, the harder they fall.
“They are confused, crying babies who have a problem with the sacred and are stuck up with the profane.”
— you mean those crying satsangi babies? furthermore, i don’t think you would recognize the sacred if it hit you right smack in the face.
beauty is in the eye (and mind) of the beholder. so maybe these videos will help you:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Unasleep#g/c/145C5B3AACF24979
“My advice to you […] go GS and apologize.”
— i don’t owe that guy a damn thing. far from it. that guy has no more importance than anyone. his type is not even worthy of licking the dust off my shoes. moreover, it is GS who should apologise to all his foolish followers for his massive false pretense and hypocisy and deception.

“Nietzsche went insane trying to oppose Christian values
of empathy and kindness. Ironically, his last sane emotion
was that of empathy when he saw a horse collapse under
the weight of a cart in Vienna and held horse’s head and
wept.”
quote poster
The Christians had their Inquistions, which killed
a few million in Europe. But, their greatest atrocity came
with Columbus. When Columbus arrived in the New World
there were a group of people called the Tainos Indians.
Very beautiful white skinned Indians.
There were 8 million of them, which was greater than
the population of England at the time. Columbus had them
slaughtered, such that by the time Cortez arrived shortly
after they were completely extinct. Ferdinand and Isabella
were heavy Pope supporters.
Millions more Indians were killed on the main American
continents before it was over. All from Christians chasing
gold.
Columbus took some Indians back for Queen Isabella, whom
stated they could not be made into slaves.
After Columbus 3rd voyage, Ferdinand had Columbus brought
back in chains to Spain. He had created an ecological disaster
on his main island he was govenor.
Ferdinand stripped Columbus of his monetary compensation.
Columbus was so distraught he lived wearing the black robe
of a monk back in Spain. When Columbus died, not even his small
hometown newspaper, posters in those days, printed the notice
of his death.
For a few centuries no one knew whom Columbus was. When Napoleon
invaded Spain, one of his commanders needed padding for his horse
to stay warm. He accidently pulled out the archive on Columbus
and used the pages. When he realized what he had, he sent them to
Napoleon.
This is the reason we know about Columbus now a days.
Ironically, Napoleon invaded the Vatican and put the Pope
in jail after taking his money. He took the Pope out
of jail to perform his marriage to Josephine.
Napoleon was atheist. But, he had to choose if Spain would
go Protestant, or Catholic. He chose Catholic.
“Give a savage a watch and he believes it has a soul.”
quote Napoleon
Later, Mother Teresa showed up in India. It was found out
she was an atheist. Now the Church wants to make her a Saint,
but are in a dilemna.
Members tell the Pope he could deem her “the Atheist Saint”.
“If God is not, Jesus cannot be.”
quote Mother Teresa
An atheist like Nietzsche grabs the dying horses head
in compassion.
Atheism has nothing to do with evil. They can be more
ethical and kind than the religious.
Religion and atheism are mutually exclusive when
it comes to goodness. The religious like to think
atheism creates evil to boost their theory.
It doesn’t work.
———————-

see there are some comments given by Mr.Pawan Kumar. I fully agree with the comments given. Sanatan Parampara is great and all these people (deras)difinitely are destroying our old culture. They not even destroy but also abuse to lord. I have gone and heard. 100% comments of Mr Pawan are true. We should not go such Places and avoid from such people

Nobody,
You wrote: “Now lets move to TUSCON:
Another explicit question. You write nice poems, non dualist pretty poems. Pretty is the word. The nice sunsets in AZ make good coctails with the local cannabis. Question: Do you eat meat?”
–Nobody, you may have me mixed up with someone else. I usually don’t write poems here.
You imply that these non-dualist poems are the product of cannabis intoxication. Why?
You sure are right about the beautiful Arizona sunsets. This time of year during the monsoon they are spectacular to say the least!
There was no failure or success for me in Sant Mat. It just sloughed away like a snake sheds its skin. It no longer applied. RSSB was like training wheels on a bike. I don’t need them anymore. Besides, if you believe RS teachings you must know that there are no failures in Sant Mat. I’m just fullfilling my karmic destiny as administered by the all-powerful guru, right? Same with Brian, Tara, tAo and others. So why be concerned? It’s karma, man. Leave it up to the guru and his mysterious ways. Shouldn’t you be attending to your simran and bhajan rather than wasting your precious human life commenting on a blog inhabited by manmukhs (worldly people who follow the dictates of their minds rather than the guru).
IMHO RSSB is absurd, dishonest and the gurus are frauds. Charan was a pleasant fraud, but a fraud is a fraud. This is just my opinion so don’t get your feathers ruffled. I’m just a guy typing on the blog.
I have heard sounds during meditation ranging from tinkling bells to thunderous booms combined with bright light. Was it Shabd? I don’t know. These experiences didn’t confer deep insights. I was the same shlub after these visons as I am now.
Yes, I eat meat with some regret that an animal was killed, but I am healthier for it. I thank the animals for the nourishment they provide. I feed this body with the food I have found it is best adapted to utilize. My body does not recognise tofu as food but rather as a foreign invader that must be destroyed. Same with milk products and beans to a lesser degree. But what does that have to do with anything?

no brian
It is very simple
youy google the following
“churchless brian meditation two and half hours ”
Its the second result “Scrupulosity, a religious mental illness”
In fact i google something else, close to that, and hit on another persons post of this.
Its the scientific method which you like so much. A pharmakon which has double properties. Its your words. My problem is that with the attitude of a thousand monkeys you claim this and that this and that…hidding the incosistencies in the realm of time. Its all online dude, for anyone to search. For the young dudes that know HOW and what to search, and what to type is litteraly a piece of cake.
older folks its a
THUS:
You wrote,
“No-body, I’m impressed that you spend so much time reading my blog posts.”
Answer- I spent 10 minutes.
“Gee, you know more about what I’ve written than I do.”
Answer: Apparently
You then said
“If I ever can’t remember something I’ve said, I guess I can ask you.”
Answer: I will teach you how to search own your own, for your own internet memory bank and make both of our lives easier. Its all online on the internet akashic records.
“Keep it up. If you continue opening your mind to fresh ideas, some cool breezes of reality might blow in.”
Answer – Given the explanations above this falls into the category of sarcastic and condescending comments who wish to depreciate my motives and personhood.
The good knews is that YOU are not your Webpage
You are not your thoughts either..but that is another story. I actually posted what i posted with sadness. not with feelings of vengeance. You may not believe it. I wanted to sent it as private message…but..I last moment i changed my mind. Respect to you, to your blog, to your wonderfull writting style, to your search for truth. We are strugggling souls as CS used to say.
Tao…A video will not help you nor me or anyone else. Grow up. I actually started watching it…and dear god…You must be joking. Its crap. The video is a joke in itself. You still read books and watch silly new age videos online?
From the opening scene of one of the videos from ´unasleep.com”
The scene opens with a lovely womans voice who sounds as if she is on antidepressants… the planet earth and a text that goes up the screen like a starwars and superman movies…
“Three things cannot be long hidden,,,sun the moon and the truth.zzzzzzz”
Get a new responce narrative. The one you pocess is boring and too defensive. Really,,,very defensive. Sounds like G W Bush on crack chasing the shadow of Osama.
“I eat what god provides” Grow up. God is a concept in your head. And so are you. And so I am for you. And so am I. These are just letters on the screen. And shabd exists…not maybe or maybe not. It exists and its real Force. You dont like the meditation, do something else.Simple and mature.
Peace out boys and girls

Somebody, we’re all the same. You, me, everybody. We’re all human beings trying to understand and live life the best we can.
In your comment above you criticize me for sounding sarcastic and condescending to you. Yet you have left several sarcastic and condescending comments about me.
So we’re all doing what we do, best we can. Just sharing our crazy ideas on the Internet, having some fun with all this “I’m right and you’re wrong” stuff. Not to be taken all that seriously. Except when we want to.

to Nobody:
Yes, I agree with what you’ve said. It is not my job to convince people about sant mat or about the Master, whether he is real or unreal since – and it is so – this is coming from right within.
I have just entered this forum because I saw the news about the assassination attempt against Baba Ji.
After I read the comments I just felt it would be useful to send an oposite opinion such as mine in order to discuss.
I really don’t want to convince anyboy and this is not my aim but again of what I have read about the shareholding and mpla mpla I put the question:
Do you think that GS would have been so stupid (he seems toooooo clever) and idiot so he would have left his name involved into something which is not ok? Wouldn’t he – at least- use some sort of Trustee or smt?
to tAO: needless to discuss with you….have nothing to say to you except that you could have behaved more politely..
🙂
Cypriot satsangi

Somebody,
i never said that i need help. i donlt need any help. i merely suggested that you might gain a different perspective by viewing those videos. but apparently you are too closed-minded to do that even.
it is you who obviously needs to “grow up”. you definitely seem rather immature and inexperienced. thats pretty apparent.
also… no, i don’t read new age books. the videos were for your benefit. and if you did not even bother to view them in their entirety, with an open and non-cynical and non-reactive mind, then you can’t expect to gain any real understanding of what they are about.
“God is a concept in your head.”
— fact is, you don’t know anything about whats in my head, or where i am at. and so on that score, you are clearly just an arrogant and immature little punk with an attitude problem.
“And shabd exists It exists and its real Force.”
— only in your opinion.
“You dont like the meditation”
— i have never said that. so you are misrepresenting me. and that is trollish and dishonest.
=====================
Cypriot satsangi,
youy said: “needless to discuss with you”
— the feeling is mutual.
you said: “have nothing to say to you except that you could have behaved more politely.”
— my comments are sufficiently polite. you just don’t have anything of any substance to offer in response.
and btw, if you have something that is relevant to discuss about some aspect of the G.S. & Religare issue, then go ahead and do so.

Tao said:
“i never said that i need help.
i donlt need any help. i merely suggested that you might gain a different perspective by viewing those videos. but apparently you are too closed-minded to do that even.
Answer: -I watched your video. You need help everyday of your life. To go from point a to point b. One always needs help in this social earthly life. When your car brakes down, when you are ill, when your fridge stops working, when you act like a fool.
it is you who obviously needs to “grow up”. you definitely seem rather immature and inexperienced. thats pretty apparent.
Answer: Obviously. Because I came up with past posts to indicate inconsistencies with ppls arguement. How immature is that. And you need not put grow up in parenthesis. I get the metaphorical meaning.And so does everyone else. Inexperienced in what exactly. How do you know? You know nothing. Which brings me to your next comment.
also… no, i don’t read new age books. the videos were for your benefit.
-Again I watched the videos. They are to say the least ok..Is like watching a good spiritual -for luck of a better word-hollywood film, like The Fountain, or the Matrix or whatever else.
and if you did not even bother to view them in their entirety, with an open and non-cynical and non-reactive mind, then you can’t expect to gain any real understanding of what they are about.
-A film on a flat screen is entertainment. Thats all folks. Its 2D pixels on a screen making recognizable patterns for people who have been exposed to television in their lives. They can -in our context- at the most, induce you to meditate, in order to experience a 4d or 5d or whatever d environment. again env. for luck of a better word. Porn is 2d and makes some embodily experience a masturbating orgasm. But its not the same as having sweaty sex. And sex, to go on, is also a means to an end. Finishing in a condom or finishing outside is fruitless. The end result of real sex, is a baby in the mothers hands, a real child. A miracle. The end result of sex is a miracle. The end result of masturbating is a lot of cleaning up and waste of energy. And what we are having in this forum, and the entire internet, is mental masturbation, to use woody allens words.
I said:
“God is a concept in your head.”
You said:– fact is, you don’t know anything about whats in my head, or where i am at.
-I agree 100%.So is the same with what you about me.Which brings me to your next point where you say.
“and so on that score, you are clearly just an arrogant and immature little punk with an attitude problem.”
-I have the attitude problem. You curse and attack 90% of the people who post something. Poorly deconstruct their sentences, and use filthy words to characterise people, but I am the one who has an attitude problem. Clearly you are correct when you say that I do not know whats inside your head.
I said:
“And shabd exists. It exists and its real Force.”
You said:
‘– only in your opinion.’
Wrong. Its many many many many many peoples opinion. Many. I will not go down the literature.You read it. And I am not claiming that its real because of the literature. The Sun exists in my opinion.
I said:
“You dont like the meditation”
You said: “– i have never said that. so you are misrepresenting me. and that is trollish and dishonest. ”
Answer: I apologize sincerely then.
then you wrote to the cypriot:
“Cypriot satsangi,
youy said: “needless to discuss with you”
— the feeling is mutual.”
My answer: Why are you even writing this then. Stay quite and prove your words in action, or rather through inaction.
———————————–
Brian
Like I said before, had I not had respect for you I would not spent my time and effort in this blog. I read your books, which required a lot of meditative effort to be written, and which I still recommend to people, especially ‘gods whispers’
All I am trying to indicate not to you but to all is to mellow down and realize that the master is not necessarily the one to blame for our inadequacies, but ourselves. Before we point our fingers and accuse and rumble we should sincerely ask whether what we are going to say is True and necessary. All in all, I agree with your last comment in its entirety. We are all the same. But there are some “same” people, who woke up one day and spent 20 years in a cave meditating on the shabd. Twenty years in a dark room…Twenty years… I am willing to Listen to their “opinion” more than someones who has been mentally masturbating in samsara for twenty years. I am also ready to follow their advice more willingly.Call me a fool, call me a sheep, call me anything you want to call me.Call me a slave, a prostitute, a worm, an immature, inexperienced filthy idiot hairless biped.
What I appreciate and what makes me bow my head down is is their gratitute and loving-ness to share the tiniest of fractal fragment of their experience with the people of the people of the world who have been playing samsara while they were still and silent in darkness. Because the tinnnnnniest fractal pattern is a seed that if received, it can grow and grow and grow. Call me a slave for receiving this,, and that is what I am then..a slave. So we may not all be exactly the same. Some are free, and some are slaves. i am the latter.se la vi

One thing, if a person want to see hell(nark), make relation(merriage) with RS family he will find such thing in this earth. Their talks are different, their work are different, their thinking is totally different and while making comments on other it can be other gurus or holy granth they do as the truth is only with them. I have seen my relative how his life has gone to hell after making relationship with these people. He cant say RAM-RAM, he cant take part in religious ceremonies, he cant go to mandir, as as per their leader nothing is there in Mandir or other religious place. Even the work to be done at HOME as per teaching of such persons is a BURDON and work to their SATSANG GHAR is sewa. Her husband can be on bed but her sewa is must.
IS IT HUMINITY. ARE THEY LEADING SOCIETY IN SUCH A WAY. ARE THEY NOT MAKING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SOCIETY. DO THEY KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOD. HEREIN I MUST SAY NO…THEY DONT KNOW ABOUT GOD(an almighty god). They have made their ownself the different LOKS in imagination and teaching to people in wrong way.

Tucson asked in his comments on 9th Aug.2010,Why do you believe what you wrote in your comment above?
……These are the words of the Great Master, Maharaj Charan Singh in his book, The Master Answers. I believe that this is the only stock in trade these masters can offer to hold their existing clients and to attract new clients

Tara,
inconsistencies when you are speaking about mysticism, and accessing other non physical dimensions of beeing are part and part of the way of expressing the teachings. Look at the undeground train map of any major city. IF you take it and try to follow it on land, you will be lost.At the least you will end walking hours and hours because what is shown on the paper as proximate is in fact very distant. You are obviously like the blogger tao immature and inexpierienced. Grow up.
Charan was speaking in the 1960,1970,1980´s- Guriner is speaking in the 1990´s, 2000, 2010, and onwards. Cheese like the river never stays the same. You think the bread that you eat in the usa is the same bread they eat in the middle east. Again grow up. I am conditioned to rationalized the con-fusion. This life is a dream, an illusion. Do you understand this basic teaching. It is fake.It like thinking all your life that you are a human..take that robot guy..Data..on startrek.. and at the end realizing that you are just a machine. Again its a metaphor…a metaphor. Its all an illusion, maya…a dream that one day we all wake up to. Grow up
PARADOXES IN THE LITERATURE. Some on top of my head some copied paste
Form is emptiness, empitness is form
The tao that can be talked about is not the eternal tao
“The words of truth are always paradoxical.” – Lao Tzu
The Tao abides in non-action, Yet nothing is left undone
He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
There is a well in heaven with a candle burning upside down
Praise that empitness that gives birth to our existence – Rumi
The unstruck sounds resounds in all creation
We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat:
our victory and defeat is from thee, O thou whose qualities are comely! (Rumi)
No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man. (Heraclitus)
I have found the paradox, that if you love until it hurts, there can be no more hurt, only more love. (Tereza)
The world of science lives fairly comfortably with paradox. We know that light is a wave, and also that light is a particle. The discoveries made in the infinitely small world of particle physics indicate randomness and chance, and I do not find it any more difficult to live with the paradox of a universe of randomness and chance and a universe of pattern and purpose than I do with light as a wave and light as a particle. Living with contradiction is nothing new to the human being.
(Madeleine L’Engle)

I apologise,
Since there is a national security filter in this site. I refuse to participate anymore. I wrote ea clear answer to tao which was eliminated. Ciao

anybody, relax. There’s no “national security filter” on my blog. The CIA isn’t reading your comments. I simply moderate comments to keep spam and “trolls” out. Your comment came in late at night my time. It was lengthy, so I read it this morning after publishing some other shorter comments.
Your comment wasn’t eliminated. It simply wasn’t published when you expected.

“a body” wrote:
“I watched your video.”
— well it was not just one single video. the presentation was broken up into a series of several videos.
“You need help everyday of your life.”
— no, and you can only speak for and about yourself. you don’t know anything about me, so you don’t know about my everyday life.
“To go from point a to point b.”
— wrong. i move about on my own just fine. i need no help in doing that.
“One always needs help in this social earthly life.”
— wrong. i have no need for any help in my social relations.
“When your car brakes down”
— wrong. i no longer have a car. and i was able to fix my own car when i had one.
“when you are ill”
— wrong. i am very rarely, if ever, “ill”. i never get sick, because i don’t eat bad food or hang around sick people. and i am quite able to heal myself if the occasion or necessity ever arises. as above, so below.
“when your fridge stops working”
— wrong. i simply buy a new one.
“I came up with past posts to indicate inconsistencies with ppls arguement.”
— fact is, you have shown no such “inconsitencies”.
“How immature is that.”
— its your attitude that is immature. you are not here to engage in any rational discussion. you are here to act trollish and personally belittle and cast aspersions upon the critics and those who question the RS cult and its leader.
“You know nothing.”
— wrong. i simply don’t know. i definitely don’t know everything, but i do know one or two things. i know that everything is under control; and that everyone is part of the whole.
“They [videos] can -in our context- at the most, induce you to meditate”
— but i am not concerned with meditation like you are.
“what we are having in this forum, and the entire internet, is mental masturbation”
— thats merely your own opinion. that is the way it is for you. other people have different views.
“You curse and attack 90% of the people who post something.”
— wrong. i don’t “curse” anyone. i don’t attack anyone either. i simply present my own opinions and/or intellectual criticisms.
“Poorly deconstruct their sentences, and use filthy words to characterise people”
— wrong again. i deconstuct better tna most. and the word “punk” is not “filthy”. so get your facts straight.
“I am the one who has an attitude problem.”
— yes, that is correct.
“And shabd exists. It exists and its real Force.” -and- “Its many many many many many peoples opinion. Many. I will not go down the literature.You read it.”
— i have read it. and i would venture to say that i have read vastly more spiritual and philosophical books and literature over the course of my sixty-some years, than you have. and that also includes all of the sant mat and RS literature that were published up to the mid-1990s. but shabd still remains nothing more than a theory.
“And I am not claiming that its real because of the literature. The Sun exists in my opinion.”
— well the key phrase here is: “in my opinion”. so its just your opinion.
“then you wrote to the cypriot: “the feeling is mutual” My answer: Why are you even writing this then. Stay quite and prove your words in action, or rather through inaction.”
— i don’t have to do any such thing. i am free to do, and to write, and to express myself as i please. i don’t have to “stay quiet”, or prove “in action” or “through inaction”. i don’t dance to your tune.
imo, you seem to be a young santmat/RSSB zealot. but many posters much like you have already come to this blog over the years. if you wish to particiupate in discussing the pros and cons of santmat and the rssb cult and gurus etc, well thats alright… but personal attacks and RS fundamentalism is not cool. just go read the blog commenting policies. also, this blog is not only just about sant mat. this site is not only about RS. not at all. there are many other kinds of subject matter presented (and discussed) here as well.
“All I am trying to indicate not to you but to all is to mellow down and realize that the master is not necessarily the one to blame for our inadequacies, but ourselves.”
— that is not the issue here. the issue is not about us. the issue is about the leader and guru of the rssb, and about his words, his actions, his honesty, his hypocrisy, etc etc.
“Before we point our fingers and accuse and rumble we should sincerely ask whether what we are going to say is True and necessary.”
— well it is necessary to determine the facts and the truth… and that is what these posts and discussions are about.
“I agree with your last comment in its entirety. We are all the same. But there are some “same” people, who woke up one day and spent 20 years in a cave meditating on the shabd. …Twenty years… I am willing to Listen to their “opinion” more than someones who has been mentally masturbating in samsara for twenty years.”
— the thing is, you don’t know who (or what) you are talking about. yes, shiv dayal singh supposedly meditated for 17 years. but so what? many have meditated for years as well. i have been meditating for about 44 years. i spent about ten of those years meditating in the Himalayas, sometimes even in caves. however, its not about how long anyone has meditated. experience in meditation doesn’t prove a thing.
“I am also ready to follow their advice more willingly.”
— well then, according to that, you should be following Brian’s or my advice… since i have spent 44 years doing meditation.
“Call me a fool, call me a sheep, call me anything you want to call me.Call me a slave, a prostitute, a worm, an immature, inexperienced filthy idiot hairless biped.’
— you sound a lot like Sid. are you Sid?
“What I appreciate … is their gratitute and loving-ness to share … their experience with the people of the world who have been playing samsara while they were still and silent in darkness.”
— how do you know what “the people of the world” have been doing? what gives you the right or the ability to judge them?
“So we may not all be exactly the same. Some are free, and some are slaves.”
— no, thats wrong. no one is a slave. each and everyine is meant to know and to embody the ‘glory of god’. and for that, no intermediaries are needed.

“… no one is a slave.” meaning to me that I don’t have a master and that it is a choice to be subordinate to a master.
“each and everyone is meant to know and to embody the glory of god.” meaning to me that for what other purpose than to know one’s self as god?…
“and for that, no intermediaries are needed.” and then too let the un-necessary fiction of self dissolve.
it isn’t my present state of being; but to know this would indeed be wonderful. no rssb, no master, no self

Jayme wrote:
“meaning to me that I don’t have a master and that it is a choice to be subordinate to a master.”
“meaning to me that for what other purpose than to know one’s self as god?”
“and then too let the un-necessary fiction of self dissolve.”
“this would indeed be wonderful. no rssb, no master, no self”
— jayme, thats not quite what i meant.
> “no one is a slave” meant that each individual is sovereign, and no one is spiritually inferior or subservient to another. nobody needs to be a slave. the term “master” is not good imo. they would be better to say ‘teacher’ or even ‘guru’.
> “each and everyone is meant to know and to embody the glory of god” didn’t mean “to know one’s self as god”. it meant to be yourself. no one is above you. you have a direct connection to source.
> “and for that, no intermediaries are needed” didn’t mean “let the un-necessary fiction of self dissolve”. it meant that no
so-called “master” or guru or intermediary is between you and source.
> “no rssb, no master, no self” is also not what i meant. the rssb exists. the rssb guru exists. and you exist. it had nothing to do with losing your self. i don’t see things that way. you are what you are. you exist. no self need be done away with. you are your self. and thats the way its meant to be, because thats the way it is. we are here to BE ourselves, not to do away with ourselves. negating oneself is a wrong idea, imo. nothing needs to be done away with in order to reach god etc etc. our
individual existence is part of totality. we don’t need to lose ourselves, we need to surrender and accept ourselves as expressions of source.

@Tara
Reading your reply and the rest I can only conclude that the clear arguments come from the sceptics (you) and that the defenders are trying to confuse. To bad, I would like to participate in something worthwhile but to be a member of a confused group that is following a master that seems to be full of tricks, no I respect myself and others to much for that.
However the link posted by Robert Searle was really interesting. It simple explains how to apply the yoga technique and how to travel in the inner world. Still some questions on my mind like why the third eye when you are in the innerworld why focus on the third eye from the outer world. These kind of questions, using your mind where it was made for. That is the way to stay away from crooks. The RSSB seems to focus on the blind following, but they don’t realize that the following is to the light, if you leave your eyes closed how will you ever find the light.
Is there more info on the Robert Searle link? I’m happy that there are a few couragious people here that dare to withstand the deluded gods.

I do not know how anybody(!) could think that there is a conspiracy going on at this website!!
But I would be interested to know if BH has had any official comments from the dera hierachy at all. I presume not….and it seems that the data on GS appears to be largely true… or else BH would have received a writ for defamantion!!

Like tAo I was never comfortable with the term “master” as it is used in RSSB…Master says this, Master does that, by the grace of the master, etc.
“Master” denotes one who is superior, a ruler or boss, who has complete authority, one who has control of a slave or an animal. When someone is your master you do whatever they say out of fear or need. Some call it love, but it is a love born out of a selfish need for spiritual salvation that they believe the master can bestow upon them at will if they remain subservient and obedient to his commands and unquestioning of his actions.
This is not a healthy attitude, imo. There is no evidence that the master is any more than a normal human being. It is faith and belief in what they think he is capable of and not what he actually does. It is ridiculous to give your power, autonomy and will over to someone who you only imagine deserves it.
Disciples say “by the grace of the master” something happened…they got the business deal they wanted, or they managed to pay their bills, or the kitchen knife only grazed them instead of going through their hand. Or, it is “master’s will” that they are going through a rough period of sickness, financial difficulties, etc.
While I suppose it is in the realm of possibility that some human could have such power, it is not reasonable to believe it without evidence and only on the heresay of books, scripture or others who are most likely duped by the same hypnotic spell.
These people are weak and unable to face life without support of a savior. It is like a child with an imaginary friend or teddy bear who sleeps with them at night to protect them from the bogeyman.
I suggest finding a person who you respect and has something to offer who does not set themselves up as an all-powerfull “master” and who will not allow you to regard them that way. They will go no further than to be addressed as ‘teacher’ or ‘sensei’ or something of that nature. Or better yet as Joe, John, Bill, Susan or Dude.

RSSB CHIEF BABA GURINDER SINGH JI HAS GREAT ETERNAL POWER. IF YOU WALK ONE STEP TOWARDS BABA GURINDER SING JI WITH LOVE THEN BABA GURINDER SINGH JI WILL WALK 1000 STEPS TOWARDS YOU WITH LOVE. WE SHOULD RESPECT ALL RELIGIONS BECAUSE GOD IS ONE!

“IF YOU WALK ONE STEP TOWARDS BABA GURINDER SING JI WITH LOVE THEN BABA GURINDER SINGH JI WILL WALK 1000 STEPS TOWARDS YOU WITH LOVE.”
—This sounds nice, however it has a ‘sells pitch’ flare to it. In addition, a degree of spiritual ‘tease’ could be found in it. If I am unable to step one step, then could I just hand over my savings and Chevy pickup to the RSSB as a donation and get my 1000 steps, I think I need?

To Tara:
Tara were you initiated in the RSSB and then you found out it was wrong and so you started trying to find what is the wrong by gathering info from various sources or you are not initiated?
(You are not obliged to answer ofcourse)
I am asking because I would really like to understand the menace you have against the philosophy and GS.

To: Kiran
Kiran, fyi using all caps is the equivalent of loudly shouting, and it does absolutely nothing to support your position.
in fact, it shows you to be an immature jerk whose message cannot stand on its own merits, and it reduces whatever you are trying to say down to the level of nothing more than annoying static and noise.
it doesn’t do anything at all to promote your position or your guru. its makes you look like a narrow-minded religious fanatic… which of course, you probably are.
also btw, i don’t “RESPECT” any religion. i don’t have to respect religion. there is no “SHOULD RESPECT”. religion is man-made, and it is also entirely a personal choice. just because you believe in religion, doesn’t mean that i must respect religion. i only respect things (and people) who i feel deserves or earns respect. i don’t give respect just because somebody else (like you) thinks and believes that religion is holy and sacred, or that people should respect your idea of god.

tAo
my words are clumsy. I do not wish to imply that i know what you mean. what you say is persuasive. It isn’t mysterious but it is difficult for me to understand with so many of my own mental conceptions.
Speaking for myself, the ideas of master, rssb, and self are burdensome concepts that are often used as a deceitful crutch or excuse for my own personal ignorance and lack of personal responsibility. I speak for myself but it is this sense of personal projection of my desires onto these outer forms that I see as pointless. I think the dissolution of the empty selfish desires is not such a bad idea. (still just an idea)
Respect for a teacher, in whatever form, seems most agreeable to me. I recognize rssb and master are there but my peace of mind are not determined by them. That is, I don’t project my delusions of happiness onto some man or institution. I don’t know if that makes sense but I’ll leave it there.
respects

jayme,
no problem. i didn’t mean to sound like i was down on your case. sorry if i gave you that impression. we’re cool. thanks and i think i understand how you feel.
you know, everyone is really just trying to understand and make sense out of their life, in some way or another. i guess some people think that i am a mean guy, but i’m really not. i just tell it like i see it. i can’t help it, its just the way i am. and sometimes i could be wrong, and sometimes times people misunderstand me.
unlike most people, i was born and raised in class and priviledge and wealth… but since then i’ve walked and suffered a longer and harder road than most, to arrive at the place where i am at today.
and you know, the irony is that, in the end, i finally just had to give myself all away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQeaSm-XYPA

To: Cypriot Satsangi
If you have a brain and if you went to school you would know that by writing something you feel passionately about in capital letters emphasises your words and DONT judge me….who are YOU to judge me. You dont even know me!!!
and OK if you dont want to respect any religion then dont but im just following the masters teachings.

I am not suprised that Gurinder had the statue of Charan destroyed. This was not a show of disrespect but quite the opposite. Other people might see it as otherwise thinking that Gurinder did not respect his own master. On the contrary from my own interpretation it can be simply seen as a statement on the teachings that statues of any master can lead to idol worship….This contradicts Sant Mat.
Indeed, Gurinder understandably does not like being followed around by devotees, and claimed that he is not an idol…!

tAo,
I don’t know why, but I don’t find your comments harsh. My brother was an alcoholic and used to verbally threaten me all the time. I love him dearly to this very day. Your comments to others here remind me of the door guardians, keeping the fools out of paradise. (I have my own guardians keeping me out.)
I just lost my dearest friend. She was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and 48 days later she was dead. Her heaven was this place, this moment. She was absolutely against all the hypocritical crap of institutional religion and she served others with deep love and respect (she was a nurse for the elderly). And now that she is gone, all that matters is this moment. I am finding that beliefs in anything else are a fools prison.
Before she died, she had an idiotic baptist drunkard tell her if she didn’t get saved, she was going to hell. What a load of crap “fundamentalist” people carry around in their minds and wish to inflict on others. Pitiable at best.
I’m no different but I try – and am mostly wrong. anyway, i love the principles of christianity and islam and even sant mat but the institutional forms most of us hang onto are in a sorry state… a bit of a reflection on my own state.
enjoyed the song, thx.

To: Kiran
No I have never used capital letters and I haven’t judged you.
I am following my Master’s teachings as well.
Maybe you have confused me with somebody else. I was asking Tara and not you and yes we don’t know each other.
To: Tara
I have used the word meance because when you write or say something about somebody, at least you should be bold and brave enough to mention your sources and not just:
“someone close to RRSB” or “some friend who knows very well”. This has no difference than rumors and gossips
so if you want to seriously discuss an issue for which you feel and believe as your statements show (anger maybe?) then be precicely by giving your sources (names etc) in public, otherwise it is our right to draw conclusions such as the one I have…That you have menace against RSSB and the Masters in general.

Rennet free cheese no doubt reduces the burden of Karmas the PLM takes on from his initiates.Love the statue story….right out of the Pat Robertson Playbook

Definitely I agree with the views given on destroy of statue of Charan Singh. If someone knows SANATAN DHARM, Hirnakshu ask parhlad whether your GOD is there in the wall and the same was taken as AVTAR. It is the bad or wrong stretegy of RS that they mislead the people and should not use our holy GRANTHS as an example. What they do they may beat their own DAFLI themself but should bot criticise other as they do. Exactly there teachings are against all

To Tara
Dear Tara by the use of the word is OUR right to draw conclusions I mean ofcourse those who do not believe you.
Now about protecting your sources that’s nothing but a cheap excuse.
RSSB ofcourse wouldn’t enter into each individual’s info or gossip and start making commnets and discussions on every stupidity each one each time wants to say.
If RSSB would feel the need to apologise for everything that people around say, then I don’t think it would be a serious organization, but rather a gossip club.
It just happened accidentally to read about the assassination attempt and accidentally as I was surfing in the net I just found your web blog.
Now that I re-think about it maybe it was wrong to give you any attention, because after I read all these stupid things I shouldn’t have entered into this discussion
RADHA SOAMI

Cypriot Satsangi,
to put it bluntly, basically you’re full of crap.
Tara’s sources have requested anonomity, and that is quite reasonble given the circumstances. why do Tara’s sources wish not to be divulged? because in India the RSSB is a powereful cult organization that doesn’t take kindly to its members bucking the system; and because Tara and Tara’s sources have family and friends that are satsangis and sevadars, and exposing them may likely cause them serious personal troubles; and last but not least, because Tara promised not to expose them, and her word has integrity.
second, you don’t have to “believe” what Tara has shared here. but you have no right to say that her promise to maintain the anonomity of her sources is a “cheap excuse”. it is your character that is “cheap”. you obviously are in willful denial regarding the facts (about Religare and GS and his relatives fiancial dealings), and they are facts, not mere “gossip”.
so learn the facts right before you go insulting and challenging other people’s truth, information, and integrity.
moreover, its not RSSB that should “apologise”… its an individual – the RSSB leader/guru who has some serious explaining to do.
“It just happened accidentally to read about the assassination attempt and accidentally as I was surfing in the net I just found your web blog.”
— if you have nothing good to say or share, then why don’t you just “surf” right on out of here?
“it was wrong to give you any attention, because after I read all these stupid things I shouldn’t have entered into this discussion”
— if you don’t appreciate having reasonable discussion and sharing facts and relevant information, then mabe you should go somewhere else where people would rather remain ignorant and narrow-minded.
you have made derogatory insinuations about other satsangis and about the information they share, but then you turn around and say “RADHA SOAMI”… well frankly, thats rather phony and disingenous.
truth is, you can’t come anywere near the degree of sincerity, integity and character of someone like Tara. you’re just all a bag of hot-air with no substance. you think you are going to crap on Tara?? well you had better think again. i can, and i will cut your foolish nonsense to shreds.

A small expert from the Garbage and Goddess. [http://www.beezone.com/AdiDa/GarbageGoddess/chapter13.html%5D
Another take of Guru/Disciple relationship…
also. I think it touches a little bit upon what Faqir Chand was indicating in his words.
Its a Q&A
BUBBA/ Adi Da: One might very well have very clear and even true impressions in the form of psychic experiences. I just don’t have any such experiences or impressions. The consciousness in me doesn’t have any remaining tendencies like that. While individuals in the Ashram are going through this spontaneous purifying process that is awakened in Satsang, they themselves might move through those dimensions in which the psyche is open toward the universal plane of memory. So people in the Ashram could have a much clearer sense of my possible past incarnations than I have. In fact, the Guru has no sense of identification even with his present life. I have no more sense of identity with Franklin Jones or Bubba Free John than any of you does. I have the same sense of identity with all of you that I have with Bubba Free John. It is not a sense of identification or of limitation. It is purely spiritual comprehension of what is arising, without any of those limitations becoming the point of view. That is why the process of Satsang can work.
Men of experience have all kinds of mystical awarenesses and secondary siddhis and awarenesses of past lives and all kinds of psychisms. So the psychic individual looks at your forehead, sees symbols and images arise there, reads them according to the lore that he has studied, and tells you where you are at. This is a secondary siddhi, a psychism very close to life, and it requires identification with the life vehicle in order for it to exist.
In the Guru there is no such identification with the life vehicle, so he doesn’t look at a person and read signs in order to know where he’s at. He already knows. There is no obstruction in consciousness, so everything that he does relative to his devotee is perfect. It is perfect not because he is experienced enough to know how to operate. He simply does it perfectly, because be has already been undone in the Lord. So I literally haven’t the slightest idea who I may have been in the past. And I would have to make the same kinds of judgments you might have to make about it. On the basis of some evidence any single one supposed, it might seem right or it might not. In order to confirm it, I would have to get involved in some psychic activity for which I have no tendency at all. So what Indian was I? You are the one who had the vision, not me.
JANIS: I have been having this vision for two weeks, over and over, very dramatically. Usually the Indian doesn’t have very much on. But I feel as if I have a lot of clothes on. I feel these leggings, these boots that come all the way up, and leather things.
NINA JONES: Is he wearing a headdress?
JANIS: No, he doesn’t have a headdress.
ANN: Is he a chief?
JANIS: I don’t know. I think so. Someone else who has been having similar visions said they saw him as a chief. It’s amazing to me, Bubba, that you don’t always know what is going on in all this stuff that is arising in us. I think, “Oh, he knows.”
BUBBA/Adi Da: All that stuff is the toilet bowl level. It seems very far-out, but it is not. It is just stuff. But it may be necessary to pass through it. Some individuals may go through a psychic purification that is reflected in the conscious mind, and it may include the memory of past lives and that sort of thing, whereas others just go through mental forms relative to their present life.
JANIS: It’s really odd to see that’s what it is.
BUBBA/Adi Da : It is perfectly obvious to me where you are at. The Guru operates from the point of view of a perfect assumption of your Divine existence. He doesn’t just go around assuming mentally that everybody is in God. He can make that assumption only because it is perfectly apparent to him. That is all there is to it. He makes no assumptions on a lower level. So when he enters into relationship with you, that perfection tends also to be generated in your case, because his assumption of your true Nature manifests as Power to transform.

Tara,
LOL…..You’re a tough one….. tAo would be proud. Yes, this is just blogging, not to be made a big deal about. Keep up the good work. Roger

So Tara. Tell us. How was GS stressed? And what do you mean exactly that the representatives are concerned. Dont just throw things like that out in the air. Enlighten us with facts and actual embodied actions in the social domain. (( A Guru for example making money for me, is not by itself a spiritual sin. An enlightened being, [again ‘enlightened’ for luck of a better word] can be born rich and can become rich..So by itself, a spiritual teacher making money is not evidence of decadence. Its an indicator that he might be..but not evidence.)) If you dont want to do it in public i will give you my email, and obviously my name, and you can sent me the ‘info’. But i would prefer if this conversation was performed publicly.

To Tara:
Yes I know it’s Brian’s blog and you should also be thankfull for letting you speak with so much hatret in your heart about people, no matter whether they are gurus or just people…
Regarding my RSSB breed….hm… your’s it is what? I can see your manners from the way you treat people and especially those who disagree with you.
Someone said you’re tough.
If you think that good impression is by toughness, then sorry once again that I have entered to this discussion with you.
This is my last reply and I won’t be answering back so whatever you write you and your supporters will be reading and having fun by yourselves.
Goodby and may God smoothen your heart…..
Radha Soami again (no matter whether it is with folded hands or unfolded……IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE ESENCE….?????
:))))))))

Cypriot Satsangi,
Tara has shown no such “hatred in [her] heart”.
gurus who set themselves up as god (or allow themselves to be considered as being such), deserve to be scrutinized…. in all aspects.
i can see the way you treat people by the attitude of your comments. especially those people who don’t blindly believe as you do.
also, those who say “this is my last reply and I won’t be answering back” are cowards who run away because they are unable to defend their position.
“may God smoothen your heart”
— well don’t worry about others. you should only worry about your own lack of heart and humility to god. that is more your concern. try opening your own heart and mind, and then maybe you will begin to Tara in a different way.

nobody,
what makes you think that some guru is an “enlightened being”?? why do you say “enlightened being”?? why don’t you simply say teacher or guru or spiritual master?? why do you insert “enlightened being” into the issue??
also, is the guru really “making money”? or is he using other people’s money? and what is he actually doing to make this money? or was it simply given to him? where di the money come from in the first place? do you have these answers? if not, then why do you ridicule asking them?
and why do you want info “publicly”?? for what reason? and why do you care as long as you have the same info as everyone else does? all the relevant info is already on this site. so what is your agenda here?

Ad hominen attacks achieve nothing!

babajee is jani jaan , I really feel pity for those people who think him as normal human being .Babajee knows everything, he is God.
Radha Soami.

These cults are destroying core religions. If Baba Ji does not want to create division within humanity such as non-satsangis and satsangis then why can he not ask the sangat to pray, meditate in their local places of worship?
And whats this business about being ready for naam by Radhaswamis? Every person should be allowed to take naam whenever they wish and do so with pride and honour. Who is he to decide who is allowed naam and who isnt? Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji tell his disciples they are not ready and vice versa? NO!
When you are extracting and preaching from our sacred SGGS Ji you should not preach from outside of a gurdwara where our living master resides.
Can any Radhaswami answer this question. You meet and great each other with Radhaswami, have literature and use extractions from all core religions. Does that not constitute a cult? Why cant you read scriptures and go to your temple, gurdwara, church whatever it may be to learn the right way of life?
Radhaswami path is no different to what all religions teach so there is no need for this cult to exist!

@ Tara…
Tara, have you ever thought about writing a book expressing all of what you’ve been sharing with us? You seem to have so much insight into the schemes of RSSB organization, and write with such elegance…I’d be the first in line to buy your book, and I am serious about it.
Thanks for all your comments; they are always a pleasure to read.
noiZ

Many criminals and con-artists take advantage of people’s good intentions and humanity in order to victimize them. People pose as representatives of fake charities for disaster victims to extract funds from sympathetic people who want to help out.
A few years back there was a man who would pretend to be having car trouble and when someone would stop to help he would murder them and steal their car.
RSSB poses as a legitimate spiritual path with a master that has the supernatural powers to spiritually liberate individuals from the cycle of rebirths and install them in Sach Khand (heaven).
This path steals your faith and trust, falsely giving hope for salvation and a blissfull afterlife. This is injurious because once RSSB is recognized for what it is some followers are left disillusioned, without hope and in despair…their beloved guru is a fake and their path to god is obliterated.
RSSB is a criminal organization which under the guise of a legitimate path to salvation it uses the free work and donations (seva) of its followers to expand its wealth and scope of operations and power.
Just saying it like it is, imho.
They’re a bunch of crooks, you know, bad guys. And the guru is the leader of the gang. He is the worst of the worst because he knows what he isn’t. Apparently he has no shame or conscience in perpetuating this sham, this scam, this rip-off.

I have been following this thread (or threat…) for somedays.
I will begin this long thread by first saying that it is deeply infused with rhetoric which stems 150% from US culture and US discourses; either that is politics -conspiracy theories, good guys vs bad guys, with US or against US. This should be clear, following the map w the red dots, more than 80% of the people who post are from the US. This should be clear to the reader..I am not saying something which is not the obvious..por favor..es una realidad
This is important to understand. Why? Ego and its culture is one and the same. The way you socially construct it and reconstruct in daily life is also a cultural game. The ego is not something ontologically,,,the ego is a process that is being played with other egos which again are ‘a process’. When ego is not there,,,process is not there…and when a process aka game is not there..then…Buuueno…
No winner no loosers no nirvana no samsara no guru no desciple no death no birth no obamass no glen becksss, no mexicans no gringos. And this is just scratching on the surface.
I will not dwell into this much. I am just trying to elucidate two dimensions that seem somewhat hidden in this blog. First that the rhetoric is, as we are writing in English to begin with, engroses and performed with US ‘rules’ As rules of a game not rules of the police..
And the discourse, again is one which is -important to ‘get this’ , open and interlinked with other discourses that are part and parcel of US culture. That Brian did not ‘know’ that people give away food and thought that this was a remarkable thing etc etc is something which is derived from his cultural background. For me, this food giving, is nothing special…i never thought that it was special. Its beautiful it happens in many places around the world and most importantly I was aware that this was the case. So I was not enchanted when I saw RSSB giving food for “Free”.
With millions of disciples from all around the world, this cultural understanding must be understood. If not then. sorry. F*** RSSB but please understand it in the eve that that there 7,000,000 on the planet and the US is only 5% of its population and Europe another 5% . There is no norm. Some people do not have a word for this and some others do not have a word for that.
Now. Tuscon, inmho, is a conspiracy theorist who believes that there are evil ones on the planet who are trying to push forward a financial worldwide system. Fine. Something of the sort might be in the mind of some. But, well,,,how can i say this.. from a “spiritual” view of the “ego-less” IS AS IT IS: This “situation” is hollow of any fundamental ontological so to speak existence. (And so is the Religare one) I understand what he is saying, I read a lot as well about it -involved myself with it -but…ce la vi. One day we will all die. You think that you found out something about RSSB that we, the stupid satsangies have not. Please please please. There is nothing new on what allll of you have written. Please..stop treating the rest as idiots and yourselves as the enlightened ones who saw like dorothy behind the curtain. Por favor… Things are not black and white… I will go on though.
The same applies with the RSSB.org . The ‘pundits’ -another great US political word, are attacking with an O-reilley style the RSSB government from all fronts. Fair enough. In many things you say, you are describing facts. Let the interpretations be open. That is why Tuscon somewhere in his lines puts the silly, imho…Which for those that dont know means : In My Honest Opinion. Exactly..dude. but please right it so we can see it better instead of msg typing it imho…imo….btw imo. Tss ts ts
Then you have Tara: I don’t know who she or he is but she is very intelligent.Probably she is woman because Tara is more of a feminine principle but that -whether a man or woman- means nothing. Pissed off and ranging , angry, upset and revolting. “Gurinder seem surprised when he got appointed as a guru from a phone call” she said. So did Charan miss. And the RS guru’s never played ‘Immaculate’. Sawan broke a leg, he wrote that he was away from his wife in the military that enabled him to be free from lust easier, he felt sad at times because this material plane is f**** up sometimes, he travelled in places where people would attack him…etc. The letters from his guru treat the matter well. They are humane and down to level. All mystics, that lived,,,,,ACTUALLY LIVED (not like Santa Jesus and Santa Buddha and Santa LAo Ze) exhibit the same attributes. Look at.. well… Heraclitus,,,Parmenides,,,Plotinos,,,Eikhart…Rumi…I could go on and on and on…Tukrama…Ramana…Yogananda,,,even Adi Da -either you like him or accept him for what he said he was.
One single advice from me to all of you, take it or leave it : Dont read these mystics’ words and works,,,read their life histories, de-mythologise what a mystic or a human being is and grow up.
A guru or whatever you want to call him or her, takes a shit, has upset stomach every now and then, picks his nose, scratches his balls, scratches his ears, makes money!! is a king..is a beggar…may be a soldier, be a prostitute, be a poet,,,be be be anything… may even …OH MY GOD…have sex…and have babies and live a family life…OMG!! have sweaty sex? YES. He may even be polygamist…and have many wives. His role as a guru is social…His role as a guru is spiritual..both at the same time…and without a certain pattern,,,that fits moral or ethical laws.
If you enter a spiritual path with SANT CLAUSE GURU in your head, then my dear friends you will be disappointed. 100% guaranteed.
I like Tara and I like reading her comments. What I ‘read’ and excuse me I am not being condescending is an attempt to break free from the ‘culture’ that formed her and the SANTA GURU CLAUSE with white beard and red dress that brings enlightment in a silver plate. Sorry… The guru cannot take a shit for you, cannot eat for and cannot find enlightenment for you. He or she, tells you not eat meat, not do drugs, to meditate when you can as much as you can, keep your mind in check and put your thumb in your ear and be quiet if he is a shabd guru or sit down in zaaaaazen.
The self you cherish so much is the illusion that is needed to be overcome. But again this self..is culturaly constructed..your sense of self is different from a Naga, a yoribu, a Yamomamo, a cypriot. You dont like a certain spiritual path which has these social attributes and guidlines????…walk away…if you want you can scream like you do,,you can be mellow, you can shut up, you can move on as if nothing happened…etc. Like braking up with your ex…You can do other things to entertain oneself: Watch family guy or go to a zen center or read ken wilber…or pick up archery lessons…go to machu pichu..I don’t know..
She said:
” F*** the ” obedient ” attitude and get real about your lives. You need to have a voice, even if that means you change your gender and hide behind a pseudo name. ”
-If this attitude came as a result of association or disocciation with sant mat…then I like it either or. A Pharmakon is both medicine and poison you know…
Then she said:
“This is just a blog, but then again, it gives you the freedom and space to talk about the stuff that is pushed under the carpet in our RS social groups. Didn’t Gurinder tell people not to use hair color ? Who’s obeyed that one ?”
Haha…so the problem with the Guru , amidst this Spiritual fervent!!!! that he told you not to use color?? Dear God…!! hahaha I am sorry..
Look Miss, I wil tell you truth ( i never thought that I would have to articulate such an insignificant daily pattern,,or lifestyle behaviour of mine…but we are living in the DECONSTRUCTIONIST ERA and I am feeling in a writing mood….so here it goes…)
I do not use color in my head. I actually do not use any type of colouring in my food, in my drinks etc. I do no trust any type of mass produced food type of stuff. In that regard…I am …to say a silly word that again exists in the WESTS’ discourse to differentiate itself from the “Savage pre-civilised Others” ,,, A primitivist…aka a vegan hippie in american words. If something is not 150% organic i do not put in me.. Well…I do brake the rule every now and then..I am not fanatic about it. I do not live in the west,, but even that by itself is not enough to find only organic stuff. I do not know for example if the peanut butter has shit in it that I would not desire. Or…well…I use Aloe Vera tootbrush…but again it might shit in it as well..So I lied..
My point is..relax. You, and Tuscon, and Tao and Brian go from hot to cold from cold to hot…
IF your or anybodies guru is making money…be happy for him or her. if you are not happy…then that does not mean that you should be unhappy.
Why are you unhappy that my guru is a millionaire? I presume your guru was Charan..by the way.
I am happy that, apparently, my guru is a millionaire.. Hes got nam and hes got cash. And I hope the Sant mat religion grows and grows and grows.and grows and grows and I wish it takes over the whole wide world. At least people will stop eating meat and killing each other.. Perhaps by the next re-incarn. the other ego,,which will have nothing to do with the ego you have now…we will be in a social process and involved in such a world wide situation…
Peace to you all…

Hey Nobody,
I think you have me confused with tAo. He speaks more about conspiracies than I do. I did write a conspiracy theory satire in another thread about Vatican Satanists working with the Yakuza. Sorry you took it seriously. It was meant as a joke, not to say that conspiracies don’t exist. I’m just not into them.
Also, I don’t know much about Religare. I only know what others have written or presented about it on this blog. However, I will say again and probably again and again that RSSB is a fraud. The gurus are not superhuman agents sent by an entity called Sat Purush to rescue marked jivas from the jaws of Kal and the wheel of eighty four. They were not sent by anyone to order followers to avoid cheese made with rennet, or to avoid pastries brushed with egg whites, or a glass of beer, or for that matter a piece of caribou liver when living on the arctic tundra. RSSB dogma is all just imagination, a story, a fabrication, an illusion, a deception, a lie. Sorry. Really I am. It’s tough to face eternity empty handed until you get the hang of it. The good news is…you can get the hang of it.
So, I doubt Tara, tAo, Brian, myself and others are likely to “relax” in our criticism of RSSB because that’s the way we feel about it. Don’t like it? Go elsewhere. Or stay and say your piece. Whatever.
“IMHO” means to me “in my humble opinion”. Again, I use that as satire because I am not very humble on this blog, but I’m a real swell guy in person. Just ask my dog.
I am not inclined to honor your request to write out ‘imho’. I prefer the acronym. Of course you are free to write it out if you wish.
Good day?

Please can all RS satsangis answer my post as I would like to know your thoughts! Importantly, if Maharaji dosent want to create divisions then why does the RSSB cult exist. Surely all the gurbani and scriptures he uses to preach from are found at the places of respective worship?
To noiZ: Application Process?!!!! What!! It isnt a job interview! It is naam and as SGGS Ji states every person should be entitled to naam. If they take Naam they should understand the importance and consequence if one does not follow.
the religious scriptures are very clear cut and transparent. Unfortunately these transparent and clear scriptures are complicated by religious cults and of course man. Every person has their own “way” of religion and not many people actually follow what these messengers of God laid down centuries ago..

Tara thanks for clarifying the mix-up that RP79 had about our comments. And by the way, I’m still awaiting your response on my previous question to you.
Now @ RP79
You said “…When you are extracting and preaching from our sacred SGGS Ji you should not preach from outside of a gurdwara where our living master resides…”
You see I totally agree with you on whatever you’ve said about the RSSB, being a cult and all that. But you definitely lost me when you’ve called your “…sacred SGGS Ji” your “living master.”I know you’re probably a follower of the Sikh religion, but to tell you the truth I can’t help it but to think of the absurdity of it all. Thinking that a mere book can be viewed as an authority is beyond me. Just plain bullshit!! in IMO, The Bible, the Koran, the Adi Granth or any other so called “religious book” are just that…a mere BOOK. They appear to be wise, but the truth is they really are not, because if you ask them any question, they’ll go on telling you the same shit forever…
noiZ

Noiz
these books were complied through the messengers of god. when you go to any religious cult or conventional religion meeting they all convey the same message over and over again!!!!! those that listen turn out good and never need reminding again!
these holy scriptures have all the answers in life, unfortunately in todays world people make their own views up rather than listening to the harmonious and humane way of life which these scriptures teach us all!
thus my reason why scriptures teach us everything…

Dear Tara,
[Please…drob the bs of not being able to blog with the garbs of a woman.. At least treat us…a blog full of ‘spiritualists’ the credit that we -at least- are not chauvinists. Besides Tara gives it away. In any case..I brought the gender issue up..I shouldn’t have. I sincerely apologise for that]
Look Miss Tara,
Each has his or her way of understanding things.
I thought you came across as angry. I did not say you were. Perhaps I phrased it wrong. In any case. I do not feel i have to ‘logically’ defend any challenge. Logic and social self is the same: I wrote extensively about it in my commend.
I do not perceive an attack from you…I do not perceive a challenge from you. I know what i know from my own experiences, experiences that cannot be articulated…so do not ask me to articulate then inarticulable. If you want to treat me like an idiot..no problem. Treat me. Each has his or her way of understanding things. I Said what I said. And that is all.
ps. You said: “The blokes at RSSB will be mighty unhappy when they read your interpretation of Sant Mat.”
I am “the blokes” at RSSB and so are you
to tuscon: I apologise i thought you were a conspiracy theorist…which off-course you are in a sense. Writing conspiracy satire requires that type of frame of mind to be able to weave reality with up-rupt punches of paralogy..of lets say absurdity…Reality reality reality/absurdity. Ofcourse ‘reality’ is a social construct..no? The same logic you use in your satire…you use against saints..more or less. Its a pattern of thought you have..for sure…Anw..I read the piece again by the way, and imho, its not at all a joke..is a blend of social reality twisted…reality twisted….I like that…I will use it more.. Anw. Good piece of writing nevertheless..

For those who are atheists, there is no cure. Not everybody is meant to be a believer. All real mystics, saints come to give the same message, they do not come to create any new religion, or creed. Only, when they go away from this physicall plane, the worldly weak people start giving names to those teachings and get lost with rituals, dogmas, mausoleums, temples, places of pilgrimages, etc and form new religions, which was contrary from the teachings.
Just as Christ said: I have come to collect the marked sheep by my Father, or Me and my Father are one, those who have seen me have seen the Father. Now let´s give these words a little attention. The first line means, He has not come for everybody, He has come only for those alloted souls marked by the Father, not anybody else, and once His job is done He goes back and merges in His origin.
Secondly, when He says those by seeing Him, have seen the Father, means for those souls who were presnt in a physicall body during His lifetime alone.
Just the same as, if there was a very good doctor 200 years ago, howsoever good he may have been, he can not come and cure us, we need a living doctor of our time, neither by reading any amount of medical books, our illness is going to leave us.
These perfect masters, mystics or saints they come from time to time, with the same universal message; one can read their teachings, and see by onself, how same they are, being carefull with the so called human or man manipulations, according to their tastes or limited thinkings, because men are very manipulative, what they do not like, they just twist it, mostly by intellectuals, phisohphers or priest class.
But basically, the teachings are same. Outwardly one can be a black, white, yellow, tall, short, rich, poor, american, african or jew or a muslim or a sikh, but what is common in all of them, tehy have lungs , stomach, heart, nose or legs, hands, faculty of thinking… etc and mind. It is not that, a white has a brain in the skull, the others will have brain in the legs or mouth. So if there are same things and same contents, irrespective of outer size, placed and ordered in the same manner, naturally, that consciousness or essence of feeling,is same in each and everyone of us.
Just as if there are different colours of ballons, the gas with which they are inflatted, will make them elevate. So we see with these simple examples, somethings are common equally to everybody.
Now what is common in all living beings, is their ultimate reality, which is known as consciousness, soul, essence, drop of divinity, etc.
If someone asks us, what is your profession? We may get an ample variety of answers, like: I am a doctor, a dentist, a broker, a nurse, a carpenter, a shoemaker…etc. All that is now our profession, we have naturally learnt it from someone, and all these are phisicall or mental sciences, which one can touch, see, one can feel. But that what is unknown, can not be felt by our phiysicall senses like sight, taste, smell, touch, how is one at all going to know it by oneself?
Unless, one is lucky enough to come across who actually knows about it. This is what spirituality is all about, call it even science of the soul. No doubt, it is an difficult task, but that does not mean, taht one does not know, implicitly does not exist. Supposing a child or even an adult is standing in an empty room,or an open place literally empty, with no furniture… absolutely nothing; and that person is asked, if there is anything over there. Naturally the answer is going to be that, there is nothing! Even if asked a couple of times more with the same question, the same answer is going to be got. Then the person asking, still insists that there is something, and the person being asked gives up and says please tell me what is there I can not see or perceive, because all my faculties are absolutely fine. So the one who asks, takes out a small radio from his pocket, and turns it on and a very nice song is heard with a melodious voice. And then he says, you see, when you said there is nothing, you were right up to an extent, but not totally, because of your awareness or your knowledge, but the fact is the whole space was filled with waves, which your senses were not aware of, and naturally could not perceive, but that did not mean, they did not exist there. In the same way, what we call spiritual realms; Supreme Being; Soul…etc, can not be perceived by our physicall senses, which are meant for physicall things and objects only. For those finer terms mentioned above, we need to have a proper device or intstrument, otherwise it is impossible, no matter how hard one may try. Now if one doen not know about the existence of that device, or even one may not be interested in knowing it, that does not mean, that reality does not exist. Then not only, having a radio one is going to listen the music, one has to put batteries, or plug it into an electrical input, and then one has to tune it also.
So this is the same with these matters. It is not enough to have this physicall human body, one needs that knowledge from someone expert in the matter.
One knows, that one can see one´s face in a pond of water for example, but if the water is not still or it is dirty, how can one see one´s face in it? In the same way, the person in one of his comments in this page above has stated that, he was a follower of Radha Soami, for 35 years, and that he did not get any experience, nor did he got any backing or feedback from different fellows, so he gave up, thinking that all is false, and his limited, unperfect, uncomplete experience is being spread like shit, manipulating and conditioning the already weak human minds
Naturally, the logical answer to his experience I would say that, even he was to stand 100 years in front of his pond(mind) with waves(thoughts) and dirt(accumulative effects), he is never going to be able to see his face in those waters.
Why only Radha Soami, go and see the teachings of the sikh Gurus : Guru Nanak, Guru Angad Dev, Guru Arjan dev…etc,or saints like Kabir Sahib, Guru Ravi Das, Sant Tukaram, Mira Bai…muslim saints like: Saee Bulleh Shah, Saee Inayat Shah, Shamas Tabriz, Jesus Christ, etc…absolutely all have the same message, only the ignorants fail to see it and create fuss about it. One should not be forced to believe or not believe, it up to oneself. I have been for 40 yeras on this path, and I can proudly say there is nothing bad as stated above by other people, it is obvious there are many people ignorant and bad people so they go on spreading theirs pòison consciouslly or even unconsciuoiusly. Though the teachings are very simple and clear. I challenge anybody who is sincere and wants to ask anything about what one may not understand once gone throughly over some books of this path. For me it is the path most natural, convincing mentally and logically, with no blind faith.
If one is an uneducated during one´s lifetime, that person can not become a judge or a doctor for example, after death. In the same way, if one has not done anything of a spiritual task during one´s lifetime, one can not become enlightened after one´s passing away. So one of the things, of this science of the soul is that no blind faith is needed, but effort for that higher aim is required.
No matter how hard may one think mentally to find a logic to this Supreme Being(God), one is not going to get anywhere, because the mind and it´s tools(ideas, thoughts) are limited to the phiysicall.
Have we not seen the yogis, in their meditative states, for long periods, witout eating or drinking, yet their body is fit and healthy. Have we ever thought, wher do their bidies get that nourishment inspite of not taking any meals or water.
That is why Christ said, not only by bread lives the man.
When Christ was nailed and cricified, He said:Father forgive them, for they know not what are they doing. He was one with the Father, and so were His powers, if He wished, He could do anthing to avoid all that on Himself, but He did not, not that He couldn´t… The same with Guru Arjan dev, He was made to sit on hot iron plates, and was treated unhumanly; if He wished he could finish his oppositors by just one glance or even thought, but He did not, not that He couldn´t… These spiritual masters work on a different consciouss level, compared to ours normal limited human beings.
As Guru Nank says: sochay soch na haovaee, je sochay lakh vaar:
which means, think even a hundred thousand times over the Lord, but not even once are you going to have any idea about Him.
For realizing Him, there is definite and a concrete method to be applied, and without it,however hard may one try, one is not going to succeed.Read the banis inthe Granth sahib, or Anurag Sagar of Kabir Sahib, and dive deep into their just few lines or their unlimited knowledge left for us, in form of these books. and then with a clean mind and heart see for youselves that all these saints, perfect masters have given the same universal message.
Much more can be said, but enough for the moment.

Tara,
thanks for the reply.
If you find blogging therapeutic, then please keep blogging away because I always enjoy reading your comments. They shed light on a lot of things that I’ve always wondered about RSSB organization.
Many thanks.
noiZ

Carlos,
How do you know anything you said is true, or as the blog host puts it…really real?
Don’t answer for me. I have been through all this. Ask yourself. I know you believe it is really real but do you really know it is really real?
If you don’t know it and just believe it, then telling us this is like a preacher telling us that Jesus Christ is the Way the Truth and the Light. He has faith. Apparently so do you. That’s nice, I guess.
What if I say the only way to God is through his ONLY Son Jesus Christ just like the Bible says. What if I say you are wrong and are guided by the devil. How do you know I am wrong? Because you really know that what you believe is not a belief and is really real and that what I believe is not really real and is just a belief?
Well then, even if you do really know what you say is really real , how do we know that you know it is really real? Just take your word for it? For all we know you are wrong even if you know you aren’t.
Like you said. Not everyone is meant to be a believer. I guess the marked souls will believe you, if there really is such a thing.

Ridiculous reading unable to conceive

I do not have any personal problem with anybody, because respect is the best way to live. So saying that, it is fine if you or others do not agree, it is quite natural, no 2 people are on a same consciouss level. Forget about spirituality, but even brothers, genders or spouses disagree and fight. Each and everyone has his own weight to carry. I just know,that each and everyone comes alone and has to go alone, whatsoever good or bad one does, it is entirely his or her responsibility, we can share our points of views and opinions, with an open mind and with logic behind it, no blind faith,for everything we do, there should be sound logic, otherwise we can be puppets,being manipulated by evil minds. Nobody should be forced… it should come from within. And if it is done in that way, with logic and conviction, then nobody can shake you. Let us live as human beings firstly…So much killings are done in name of religion…in name of God….how stupid and senseless. That is because, God is just a concept for most of us, just mere knowledge or reading books, or fasting or going to pilgrimages, or rites or rituals are not going to make us enter the spiritual realms. Just as some people believe that by bathing in a holy river one´s sins can be washed away…just imagine if by putting a chillie in that holy river and then if you taste it, you can see that it has the same hot taste; if it can not just take out that taste of a physical object, how can it wash away the sins…
Going back to the question, whether what one says it is true or not, there is just one way at least for spiritual matters. Try it, and see it for yourself, and then no matter what others say. It is scientific and simple.
Guru Nanak,clearly and in simple way says in JapJi Sahib:
Suniai jog jugat tan bhed, Suniai sasat sinmriti ved: By hearing the name of God, the method of realising Him and the secrets of human body, become known.
So it is not with mind or intellect one can understand or know spirituality. With mind and intellect, you can go on discussing endlessly. It is the conscious effort, method that can convince, I am sorry, there is no other possible way. For worldly material things and objects or even sciences, mind and intellect can be usefull, but for what is beyond their reach, or call it trascendental, they are of no avail. Suppose Guru Nanak or any other mystic had not said this, we human beings surely could not have even thought of it. We as usual, fight and cut each others throats… and that is because we do not even really know what we are doing. Outwardly there are many religions, and all lead nowhere, because the One sought, is not outside. He is inside, that is why Christ said: “ye are the living temple of God”. And if we try to find Him inside, according to the correct instructions being put into practice, then there is only one way. If He is One, naturally the path leading to Him has to be one, it can not be different for different religions, nationalities or a limited land or region.
Christ also mentions in the Bible, to that Primal Power; He refers it as the Word, as He says, in the begining it was the word, and everything was created by the Word. Mystics at different times have used different words to describe that energy, but it is the same thing. Christ called it the Word, the muslims call it Kun or Kalma, the sikhs call it Shabad, Hukum, Bhana, Sach, Amrit Bani, etc…but it is the same thing. Water is called by different words in different languages, but not because of that it´s nature changes, it is the same formula H20.If we try to find that energy or power outside, then we are lost in tribals, wars, religions, turbulances, riots. But if we try to find Him in this human body as said before, under guidance, then we are secure and there is no danger, and is the same for everybody. As it is said in the banis: sahib ke darbar mein kewal bhakti aur pyar= which means. in His court only love and devotion are accepted. Nobody is there going to ask you: what is your nationality, your academic record, or wether you are a christian or a jew, or a hindu, sikh or muslim, or wether you are black, white or rich or poor. Because our true essence is the same, we are rays(souls) of the same Sun.

Carlos,
You are steeped in Sant Mat theology and dogma. There is nothing more to say to a true believer such as yourself. It’s not your fault. You’re new here. It has all been discussed on this blog many, many times over the years and there have been many posts just like what you have written above and all kinds of responses ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Check the archives under Radha Soami Satsang Beas. You will find more material than you are ever likely to read. Good luck. Really.

Tuscson, thanks for your kindness, may God bless you!

As much as the RSSB movement encourages peace and harmony across all religions, it should not really exist when the core religions teach the same!
I would be very interested to hear from RSSB devotees on this matter! Why become RS when you can go to the core places of worship and hear these scriptures etc from the source itself!

Tara, a belated comment on your references to the new “Adventure of Faith” book published by RSSB. For a while I was involved in rewriting Shradda’s original manuscript. I sent off a rewrite to the Dera, then lost touch of the project. I still have her original document, so someday it might be interesting to compare the book as published with the book as she first wrote it.

Daadu teri kothri…
Gal Katiyan Ke Paas…
Joe Karangae woe bharangae….
Tu kyo hoe udaasss…………..
You all live in a World of democracy, it doesn’t mean you share anything and everything about anyone and everyone… I am really shocked to see that people have so much of time and energy is wasted in arguments….
Nothing would happen, if you agree with the Santmat or the path that is shown by the Guru or do not agree. If you Agree, then please follow. If you do not, then please do something that you can do what you feel is not happening….
With a great respect to you all and your thoughts that are being shared (knowingly or unknowingly), please note that God is there to see what is right and what is wrong… so, this would be better to not to spend time on who is right and who is wrong… kindly contribute….

Kr,
While I understand your point, how do you know if these discussions and arguments are a waste of time for any particular individual? Maybe some people actually learn something or hear a point of view they never thought of which is of value to them. How can you know?
Some people like to argue. Would you take the joy and bliss of arguing away from them? Maybe they enjoy spending time in pointless pursuits. Would you take that pleasure away from them?
How do you know that God “is there to see what is right and wrong”? Maybe God doesn’t see right and wrong. Do you really have any idea of what God sees? Maybe God started the creation and then died? Maybe whatever God is does not perceive in terms of right and wrong?

that was terrible ,thanx all is fine .hope it never happens again.

radhasoami ji

the true satsangi dont care abt tht type of bakwaas.. bcoz he fully known tht it cant be happened, he is god not a common man.. so dont bother abt tht type of news.. it is a feature of puran guru. if it happened with another guru den dis news become d national issue… but beas satsangi do not even talk with tht type of things..

this is disgusting!!!how can someone be so cruel?I’m happy Babaji is fine now.

I was shocked by reading such kind of attack to my guru. my guru never point out any other spiritual paths followed by others.he thought us only how would we live in this creation is companying with maya and how would we devotee our self to resolve in god.he never discourages the people,fallowing other paths.why these folls tryed to harm my love.these is not fair to them.however, my babaji can can excuse the person who doesn’t knows the truth exactly.

my satguru (sahib) and lord (bhagwan) may also pardon and bestow the power of understadnings who criticise Sanatan Dharam, temples and spritual holy granths of Sanatan Dharam without having full knowledge of it .

dear friends,
once babaji said in satsang: if you want peace in world then do bhajan and simran daily. lets not argue wat happened there and stick to the duty given to us which is the only goal of a soul in the human body.

Mr. Yadav Ji, definitely i dont like to argue with any person going to RSSB. My simple augue is that criticism of other belief is not good and cannot stated as a deed of religous persons. My Maharaj Ji, my Satguru ji and my Sahib ji also guided me to follow the path of Sanatan Dharam and not to criticise other and I thnik it is best for self peace and world peace. Criticism make only those people who have lack of knowledge. Go to any Mondir, I dont think anyboody there will say you not to go RSSB but there………..

i do not belive that any man that covers a radhasoami is a guru or a man of god it is said after guru gobind singh there shall be n more than the guru granth sahib and this should be seen true as the gurus spirit was the spirit of god therefore radhasoami are spiritualist and i dont agree with people reffering them to god or guru althought very interlectual and very spiritual but no more than that i think its bad on those who think that these men are god

Jesus was crucified, Socrates was poisoned, Guru Arjun Dev was burnt, Guru Gobind Singh was beheaed, the list goes on. To all non believers of RadhaSoami and their Guru I can only pity you as you form a part of the world which crucified Jesus and so on. Feel very sorry for you all.

Arun, if you’re a supporter of religion, all I can say is this in reflective response to you:
I can only pity you as a part of the world that has tortured people and burned them at the stake for not believing in religious dogma; that is responsible for countless other deaths caused by battles between competing faiths, like between Hindus and Muslims, and between Muslims and Christians; that even today is responsible for much suffering due to refusals to embrace AIDS prevention and embryonic stem cell research.
Other examples could be given. My point is just that religion has caused a great deal of death, suffering, divisions, hatred, and pain. The world would be much better off without blind belief. If you’re religious, you’re contributing to the problem.

Strange question for Brian,
Do you ever get the feeling Charan and
Gurinder were and are controlled by
people behind the scenes ?
Possibly the Board, or people behind
the Board ?
People with huge amounts of cash ?

Mike, I’ve never thought of that. But who knows? It could be true. Do you have any evidence of this?

Brian above you wrote/posted “My point is just that religion has caused a great deal of death, suffering, divisions, hatred, and pain.”
*****religion******????
Humans do bad things.
Envy, pride, lust for power, anger, fear, GREED, and general insanity.
Religion is not more responsible for bloodshed and mayhem than a penis is responsible for rape.

Jiddo Krishnamurti spent his life
warning people about divisions and
hate religion causes.
Religions are unproven beliefs.
I have no evidence Beas has an invisable
hand behind it.
Thanks Tara and Brian.
But, as a student of history, I know
most times one exists.
Such as the Rothchilds whom have controlled
wars since the days of Napoleon.

You’re right on about the Rothchilds, Mike, although I would add a few more to your list.

THANK GOD!HE IS SAFE.

I LOVE YOU R.S.S.B

Baba ji is god .he is not a simple man.gurindar singh ji rab hai.or wo admi mahamurkh hai jo rab pe attack ki koshis karta hai.

I do not know that rs masters are controlled by behind the scene people with the cash,
but its seems Mike Williams is controlled by people with CASH,
thats the reason he keeps on digging out facts,and come with wrong adopted theories and half baked truth,with lots of self mixed stories,
I 100% sure,that mike williams is funded with lots of moolah,for framing a particular path.
Mike bring facts dude,not nonsense content,
if you will bring facts you will have many people reading it and saving it in their memories,
if you keep on posting and writing incorrect unknown theories and stories,
It will bring you good name and fame(though on negative side)
Your website history of beas,is FULL of Lies.
No single truth find in them,only what i found true in it was the names involved,else it was just english.

To Dear RS followers,
Do not get into discussion with anyone over here,
Especially TAO,TARA,Sapient,robert and few more,
They are expert in laying Traps for you,
First they will drag you in shit fight,
and when you get involved they will point fingers on you,for just showing RS path is full of weak followers and believers,
they always need a chance to drag RS masters and Path.
SO Dear RS followers,
Do not get into trap layed by these blog lovers,
they are doing something they believe,which you may reject,
but let them do,
there is a hindi verse,
mulla ki daud masjid thak,
just patiencely wait n watch and see how far these blog and blog lovers run….

mla, your comment above is appropriate w.r.t. sant mat rssb. Disciples should not make comments on this site- GS does not permit it. It would also serves no purpose for you to upset yourself by entering this site.
The rest of us who are between religions or who have thrown religion to the breeze, will comment as we like because we are not afraid.
As with anything, rssb may be invaluable for some people who need what appears to be the ultimate support from a figurehead.
One thing that is blindingly obvious is that the western satsangi population has aged. Young western people on this path are more often than not some of the sons and daughters of satsangis.
Mike I think your site to be of great importance.

Mla, you are a REAL GURMUKH and it is only by the grace of ALMIGHTY BABAJI. You really deserve.
Hazur Maharaj Charan Singhji used to say that every soul has a two fold purpose. First to help ourselves, to make purer and second to help others come on the path by being a living example of a disciple of a Great Master.
As you wrote that Mike is funded by the Moolahs, so you can`t expect him to bring the facts, would you please put the facts of the HISTORY OF BEAS.
Thanks.

My dear
Juan why you always try to be so smart,
Mike Williams is definitely seems to be funded by moolahs,
but then also he is not at all aware of the facts.
and may be he has been funded from a good organisation.
and juan,i already said many times,being very humble and good,let me repeat once again,
i can bring facts on table,
then i do not trust you or this blog or this blog lovers that you guys will believe it,
you guys just know to play with words,
you are all involved and trapped into a very limited mind theory,
unless you guys come out of it,
you guys will never able to understand anything.
And Mike has written just rubbish in his websites,
ok if you are that much interested in knowing the fact,
Fix a place of yours
fix a time of yours
We will meet there and talk.
Blog is not right place to talk
and the length of discussion required,my god my had will pain typing it,
its better we can talk face to face having many rounds of hot coffee,
that would be easy and comfortable
if you are ready,just let me know
🙂

My dear innocent catherine i m also not afraid,
its probably you need to be may be afraid of anything,
but i m not,
And what GSD says and said,i know better than you do.
You keep on reading post and reply according to your ease.
If i say your husband is having affair with your mother,how will you react?
you will sit silently?
perhaps i know ,you would not?
then what would you do?
you would immediately React and act!!!
that’s what i do here,
Just like the way your husband has no affair with your mother,
just like that the allegation and messages posted here are incorrect,because i know the truth,
i keep on making them realize,but then they do not listen.

so nice

Wat ever read , its about belief in ur self, RSSB and for that matter any other streams of belief should not be condem, if u dont want to follow or believe in the sytem dont nobody is forcing its some who believe in him felt hurt, its like a news about or friend or family if come to know she/he is attacked i would be worried.
Keep life simple …

proud to be a follower of baba ji since childhood..it feels great to be a part of a radha soami family…

my guru knows eveerything ,where ever HE goes ,no one can harm to my satguru ji. so the almighty my guru gives life to everybody who anyone comes to HIM.

hello my name sandeep I daily going to guruduwara. I saw they are selling religion eg people are giving money to them for kirtan and explanation gurugranth. One day I bought movie which are free but they are selling those moving and saying this is seva.I am thinking that the money they getting from those CD they keeping themselves. In this way they doing seva I am confused.I watched on tv to guruduwara pardan stealing money. I asked many peole going to guruduwara they do not know gurubani meaning, I am thiking why they going there if they do not know anything even ten guru name

[This commenter, “The Specialist,” had trouble leaving a comment, so it was emailed to me with a request that I post it. Glad to oblige — Blogger Brian]
To Tara and Tao : You two are my heroes. I love reading your thoughts. Tara…you are like Wonder Woman. I picture Linda Carter when I read you…bold and wonderfully insightful and Tao….you kind of remind me of The Batman(the superhero with no super powers but makes up for it in guts and life experience)…I grew up on comic books so forgive the personifications.
In my personal experience (it may be different for others)…I have found that religion and cults seem to be the choice substitute for those who lack the confidence to deal with reality. Certainly, in my experience, having zero confidence in my 20’s, I was the perfect recruit for any religion or cult…sprinkle the allure of a Living Master who has mystical powers and the talk of heavenly regions, what to speak of insight into the full chracter profile on Kal Niranjan(and satsangi’s let’s be honest…you love hearing stories about Kal….I have seen people in Haynes Park rapt with attention when the Dark Prince’s name is uttered…it strengthens your belief in Baba Ji through fear and a part of us likes being afraid because it means we have to seek security which leads to….you guessed it…Baba Ji)….and you have a cult with all the intrigue and mystery to lure most people into the fold.
Looking back at some of the stories I heard about GSD and my own personal experiences…well let’s put it this way…on the day that I was initiated…I knew it was all wrong…on that exact day! Kind of like when you lose your virginity to the wrong person and afterwards you look at the person next to you and think…”I made a mistake here”…it was that kind of feeling….I gave it the benefit of the doubt….and then I discovered this site and other disgruntled ex-satsangis who could be open to express their dissapointments…it was really a breath of fresh air…..because when one is involved in such a cult one is duped into all sorts of feelings of self guilt and insecurity for doubting and questioning the path.
To the RSSB lovers out there…I do feel empathy for you all…and I know it must really bother you hearing the comments of true seekers like Tara and Tao but please try to understand that people like Tara and Tao been to the mountain top and it ain’t what you say! It is important for us all to have an outlet to express ourselves and humour one another.
In RSSB, we were taught to hate time as it was an aspect of Kal Niranjan; the negative power….Satasngi’s spend years being antogonistic towards the most precious thing any living being can have…..Time….Time has value….even the almighty Gurinder Singh Dhillon who you consider to be the incarnation of Sat Puresh cannot give you time back….What is in order is a DeLorean with a Flux Capacitator and an engine that can hit 88mph but I digress somewhat….my point is…I spent a long time believeing in GSD etc and then I found something even more fulfilling to believe in….myself….confidence is a slow process…a bit like arderous meditation but I assure anybody here…unlike contemplating on the Master’s form…confidence is so worth it! When I believed in GSD I read alot about humility…when I found confidence within through hardship etc….I experienced humility first hand….enclosing….to Tara and Tao in particular…thank you for taking the time and effort to putting your thoughts on here….I am sure that I speak for others when I say that your comments are most appreciated and thank you to Brian for putting the site up….it has become the voice of the voiceless.

There are so many controversies floating around related to Radha Soami….. I don’t know whats right or wrong….. But my experience is not good either wit them….. http://dilkhichdi.blogspot.in/2012/03/mann-jeete-jag-jeet-conquer-your-mind.html

my babgi is god dnyaneshwar

My babagi is not a man hi is a god dont tray this

@funny Indian names.
How do you know your businessman self-proclaimed teacher is a God?
Where is the vital evidence?
Please provide us with videos, holographic representations, aura-measurements, astral recordings or at least with memory/sensorimotor implants (Total Recall anyone?) that will prove his divine nature! It would be an entertaining material. We are looking desperately for a legal pedigree of divinity(tm).
Jesus is godman, Orpheus is godman, Rajinder is godman, Gurinder is godman, Fuckinder is godman, Babinder is godman, Rainer Werner Fassbinder is godman, so everyone is a godman. What a mess!!!!!
Here you go. Two questions with the same answer:
1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?
Answer: Everyone!
————————
“When everyone gets super, nobody is super”
-Syndrome, quote from “The Incredibles” cartoon movie of 2004

quote Pythagoras: Here you go. Two questions with the same answer:
1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?
Moon: Exclude me on both.

1) Who wants to be a godman?
2) Who wants to be a millionaire?
Answer: Everyone!except Don Gurinder Singh and few more.

“No more moralising on the internet”
best to give satsang attend satsang read the words of the saints and attend to meditation,hang around the saints and become one with them….we are all masters in our own right.”
“It takes less than half a second” to go inside to Sach Khand
Write what you experience inside ,your difficulties of going in, send it to Baba Ji RSSB 143204 Punjab INDIA.He is the sewadar in charge of taking souls across. Describing himself as a “sewadar” when asked.
All initiates from USA of Huzur Maharaj Charan Singh are invited to dera October 2012-April 2013, Baba Ji has so much sewa for you all and so much free accomodation, so much sports fields, so much satsang, free meals and a world class library, 3 weeks of free spiritual discourses x 2 a day, and an opportunity to do meditation every day. This will be my 14th trip to dera and I want to step up my satsang attendance at more cities, at more countries.I am retired now so all I have is RSSB dera and the 100 + centres, and any little sewa there is for an old man I will gratefully do.Radha Soami Din Dayal sounds like a cool place to be.

The guru makes all of Religare’s major investment decisions.

I think Tara n tao has gone crazy….. they r here for just wasting time of others.. ..

@Tara is only a lady, which has lost everything, she don’t hv knowledge abt wht rssb is.. she has been thrown out of satsang ghar… so she is so much of angry nd spreading rumours here…

they can try if they want but no one can touch Baba ji, as christ has said, they know not what they do!

shame on these people

BABA GURINDER SINGH JI SUCH A GOD IN OVER LAND IN INDIA. DERA BEAS IS A HEAVEN IN THE WORLD.

no one can harm to our baba ji

no one can harm to our baba ji–he is almighty and is always protected by bodyguards.

baba ji is God no one can harm

I’m not looking at this incident from a political perspective. You write and I quote ” Of course, a real GIHF would not need protecting, strictly speaking ! ” Well said and I’m strictly speaking so we’re on the same page.
RS Sant Mat books clearly state that the Guru is the embodiment of the doctrine and is a ‘ living example ‘ for his disciples. I’ve read a ton of RSSB literature and there is no chapter or inferences regarding ‘ Imperfect Masters ‘ so kindly put forth the book’s title and page number where Sawan and Faqir made the claims you speak of. I’m not considering isolated quotes or statements that are made out of context and no ‘ interpretations ‘ please.
If you haven’t yet realised, I’m not into making Sant Mat cocktails, but it seems like you have many concoctions. No thanks, lets just live in disagreement

ajay, if the Guru is god and doesn’t need protecting, why does he have guards with guns protecting him? Think about it.

“no one can harm to our baba ji–he is almighty and is always protected by bodyguards.”
quote Juan

I want to tell to you people that if you guyz dont want to appreciate RS policies and the guru. It is just a request to stop saying anything abt him.
its your wish to follow anyone..let others do what they wish.. why are you being so rude to rssb?
live and let live..

Karan, if you don’t appreciate this blog, I request you to stop leaving comments and saying things about it. If you wish to not read what people say here, just follow the web sites that you want to read. Let others do what they wish. Why are you being so rude to this blog? Live and let live.
Does what I said make sense to you? It should. You used almost exactly the same words.

Brian….you the man!!

All hail Brian, thank you Brian for sending my email add to The9thGate.

“why are you being so rude to rssb?”
Cuz he’s a jerk…silly girl…or boy…can’t tell nowadays with these self-given names.
Go in peace…with the emphasis on “go”.

Tara,
I have been reading this blog, and especially your posts, for about three years now. However, I decided to start taking part in the discussions only recently.
I can relate with you on many counts – conditioned to believe in RSSB teachings from early childhood by virtue of having been born in a family of strong believers, developed great love and affection for Charan, got initiated by Gurinder, finally lost complete faith in RSSB but still having respect for Charan (but not any for Gurinder) etc. etc.
Since I didn’t belong to a family “high up in RSSB hierarchy”, I was one among the millions and so didn’t have the opportunity to see the matters as closely as you did. As some have noted on this blog earlier also, you seem to have a great deal of inside information. I would like to ask you a couple of questions, but I will provide some more background information about myself first.
I started losing faith in RSSB immediately after Charan’s death as I stopped experiencing any such feeling of “grace” or “warmth” while looking at Gurinder or listening to his satsangs as I used to have with Charan. I expressed my feelings honestly to one of my uncles but was ridiculed by way of arguments such as “How can you claim great love and affection for Charan when you don’t feel like respecting his will wherein he himself chose Gurinder to be his successor? That would actually amount to you not respecting/loving Charan as well.” I was completely confused, to say the least, but decided to remain with the path for the time being. Although the seeds of suspicion had been sown in my mind, I did decide to get initiated by Gurinder in 1997. I never made a serious attempt to meditate but regularly attended satsangs by Gurinder as also by other preachers.
I came to know of the Religare connection only through this blog but much before that, I had my own doubts about Gurinder himself and his family living a lavish life and preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc. I also saw a report on an Indian news channel about Nimmi (Charan’s daughter) talking (almost madly) to news reporters about a property dispute with her brother-in-law. Recently, I read a book titled “Radhasoami Reality” which specifically talks about the history of business and government connections of the organisation (RSSB).
As I said earlier, I never truly believed Gurinder to be GIHF, but after reading some of the eye-opening posts on this blog, I finally lost complete faith in RSSB about two years ago. On a lighter note, Gurinder often uses the word “unless” in a wrong way by saying something like “…. unless we don’t do this ….” while he intends to say “…unless we do this …”. I know this a common mistake, but you can’t expect “God” to make such mistakes!
The one question that has puzzled me a lot is whether Charan chose Gurinder (who is the son of Charan’s sister) to be his successor after consulting his own two sons and whether they declined to be the Guru because they didn’t want to live the life of a “saint”? Also, whether the two sons have a secret understanding/arrangement with Gurinder about some sort of “profit sharing” in the whole “business” (because their father played a big role in establishing it!)?
I have a few more doubts about which, I believe, you may have some information, but I will ask those in a later post.
I will really appreciate any insights that you (Tara) or anyone reading this may be able to provide.

Avi,
Stop listening to these “preachers” you speak of. I assume these are people giving satsang at the group meetings.
You say “preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc.” Never, ever heard this from anyone! Stop confusing the path of Sant Mat with the followers, who are mostly conditioned by their culture and previous religions they belonged to and still have a very religious attitude which is NOT Sant Mat! Its the followers with their religious attitudes talking nonsense about GIHF etc and yes, they very easily can put people off the path.
If you read the comments on this blog the complaints are usually about the way the satsangis behave.
This is simply a very personal path, following the four principles and becoming connected to who YOU really are. It takes a long time and a lot of patience and perseverance. The Master is an example and a guide and what you see in him is a reflection of yourself.
Stop blaming others for your own failings people!

Just me,
You’ve hit the nail on the head.
We live in a society where we are quick to point the finger at other people.
Yes I do acknowledge the fact that RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma. However its the closest thing to God realization, its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth.
Didn’t Faqir Chand ‘whoesever form you remember God in, he’ll help you in that very form’.
With regards to money being the root cause, yes it is, however don’t we need money for survival? IMO ,there’s no harm in having vast money as long as you have earned it rightfully.
Baba Ji has implied on numerous occasions that he is a teacher, don’t look at Baba Ji as someone who will do everything for you. Baba won’t take your karmas on, that’s all in your hands.
We are the doers, Baba is the guide, just like Just Me said, the followers do get things wrong. Charan even stated that he was aware of his followers changing the teachings under his nose, Christ experienced the same.
Be honest,ethical and do your meditation, it takes time, but it will pay dividends.
I know 3/4 of the session is spent fighting with the mind, you may recite ‘om’ for 30secs prior to meditation to calm the mind down, this will increase the efficiency.
These methods have actual evidence, the ball is in your court.

just me and Gilly,
Gilly says, “Yes I do acknowledge the fact that RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma. However its the closest thing to God realization, its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth.”
I appreciate that you, at least, acknowledge that “RS does have faults, the teachings do consist of mere dogma.” However, I am sure that majority of RS followers wouldn’t agree with you. Also, who are you to decide that “[RS] is the closest thing to God realization, [and] its light years ahead of Christianity,Sikhism,Hinduism and so forth.” It could, at best, be just your opinion, and I must acknowledge that my own opinion was not very different from that of yours just a couple of years ago.
In response to my comment, “I had my own doubts about Gurinder himself and his family living a lavish life and preaching things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money etc.”, just me says, “Never, ever heard this from anyone! Stop confusing the path of Sant Mat with the followers …..”
When I made the comment quoted above, I was actually referring to Gurinder himself and not just any other preacher. I heard Gurinder himself say this (in Punjabi – something like, “agar kisse da satya nash karna hove taan oonu bahot sara paisa de deo” – which literally translates in English to what I said above) at a satsang in Delhi in India a few years ago. I hope many satsangis would recall that. So, it’s Gurinder and not me who should “stop confusing the path of Sant Mat” – to use your own words. I fully agree with you that we do need money for survival and there’s no harm in having enough money (not so sure about “vast money”) as long as you have earned it rightfully. However, Gurinder must come clean and be transparent about “rightfulness” of the way he earned his “vast money” after becoming the head at RSSB. It is especially important in view of your own comment, “The Master is an example…….”, and so must behave ethically (see below for more on ethics).
Thanks to Gilly for suggesting, “Be honest,ethical and do your meditation”. However, in my opinion, just living an ethical life is enough. For me, being honest is part of being ethical. In fact, being ethical means being honest, responsible, fair and transparent – and I know that because I have read a lot about ethics :).
Finally, to Gilly’s comment, “Charan even stated that he was aware of his followers changing the teachings under his nose ……”. I know you won’t agree but still there’s no harm in asking – don’t you think Gurinder is also doing just that? Look at the “The new Sant Mat Teachings”, see below, for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2eweEr_50&list=ULSwXgHmTOfXs

Avi, you say Gurinder himself said “things like money is the root cause of many problems and if you wish bad for someone, give him lots of money”. This is the problem with listening to hearsay. Don’t think I would ever want to wish bad for someone so this doesn’t make sense to me.
As to the youtube and Osho’s theories about the new revised teachings of Sant Mat. People don’t like change do they.
Surely its not surprising that the way the teachings are conveyed nowadays is going to be very different since the time of the original Master Swami Ji. The integral message is still the same.

just me, are you serious? The “integral message” of Sant Mat/RSSB is extremely different given the reality of Sant Mat 2.0 (or 3.0), which you don’t seem to be denying. Just read my posts on this subject:
https://churchofthechurchless.com/2006/01/sant_mat_versio
https://churchofthechurchless.com/2011/05/has-gurinder-singh-revised-sant-mat-to-v-30
Here’s an excerpt about the newest version of Gurinder Singh’s teachings. This is written by someone who heard him speak:
—————–
I was at the national satsang [gathering of disciples] in the UK last weekend. Gurinder has changed from the old days. His teachings are going through a noticeable change – and so is he himself.
What I noticed is that
(1) He talks a lot about The ONE
(2) He laughs and jokes a lot
(3) He tells people not to be so serious
(4) He tells them that the master will not come at the time of death – that they have mis-understood the teachings. Just as it does not take four lifetimes.
(5) He says there are no regions – that Sach Khand does not exist – neither does Sat Purush. He says they are levels of consciousness
He says the purpose is to REALIZE that there is only the ONE – and that we are caught in maya – duality.
Having the darshan of the physical master is not even mentioned anymore. He says seva will not help you make any progress – it simply makes you humble if done correctly. There is no spiritual merit.
You will NOT be able to succeed through meditation. Meditation is just to make you give up. You can never get there through your efforts.
Now these kind of teachings have never been given before in rssb.
—————-
That’s true. The RSSB teachings used to be presented as a “science of the soul” that is changeless, being the foundation of every true religion. Now, the key tenets of Sant Mat aren’t being taught anymore by the current guru.
How can you say the “integral message” is the same?

Brian,
Do you know the person who made these claims? How do you know its not an anti RS aka Sikh in disguise?
Its funny Brian because I was at that satsang in Haynes Park back in 2011, I never heard such statements though i did hear the master say notions such as 20 minutes of darshan is better than 100 years of meditation are metaphors.
The previous Guru’s have always stated that seva makes you humble, yes being humble can help in meditation, so it can aid the meditation.
It’s ok to critique RS but the criticism needs to be fair, you make some good points Brian, but some of your posts are not fair.

quote Brian
(5) He says there are no regions – that Sach Khand does not exist – neither does Sat Purush. He says they are levels of consciousness
I agree with Brian but with this point 5 i do not. This are exact words of Charan from these new Charan three part books with questions and answers .
TARA TARA please come to my mail again i had computer break down so i lost your mail. I MISS You! Moon

Hi everyone,
I was initiated by Charan Singh over 44 years ago. I have changed a lot since then, everything changes, the way Sant Mat is now being taught has changed. Change is constant (hehe).
I loved Charan so much even though I never got physically close to him. I read all the books many times over, all the questions and answers are there and yes this helps to satisfy the intellect somewhat. I went through a stage of disillusionment and looked into other teachings and philosophies. Now (imo) nothing compares with Sant Mat.
I also like Gurinder and his style of teaching. He is forthright, down to earth, sometimes even blunt although he has softened somewhat now. To my mind he is something of a ‘zen’ like Master. He is the right guru for these times (imo).
I also enjoy reading Taoism. Emptying out, spaciousness. When people become rigidly filled with opinions and beliefs then there is no space for the Tao (which is another name for the Shabd).
So, for me, in the now, putting the intellect aside, the integral message of Sant Mat is that this is a path of Surat Shabd Yoga. The path of the sound current, the “audible life stream”, “That” which we are. This is for each individual to discover through meditation.
Has this basic teaching been changed by the current guru? If so, then I have discovered my very own version lol.

Your Out Boy, just about any criticism of Gurinder Singh is fair, because the guru chooses to be secretive about what he says. If he doesn’t write anything, if no one is allowed to record or transcribe what he says, then naturally there will be different interpretations of what the current RSSB teachings are.
With Charan Singh, you knew where he stood. Charan Singh wasn’t afraid to say, this is what I believe. What does Gurinder Singh believe? No one knows. He seems to say different things to different audiences. So different people share different interpretations of what he is saying.
This isn’t the fault of his audience members. It’s the fault of Gurinder Singh. Unless he means to let the current RSSB “party line” be whatever anyone wants it to be. Which is fine. That just is very different from how the previous gurus presented the supposedly “ageless and changeless” teachings.

Tara,
Many thanks for your response. I had been anxiously waiting to see it.
I carefully read your full response twice, and had mixed feelings about it. On one hand, for the first time, I found your opinion(s) to be very moderate and since I was not expecting that, I was a bit disappointed :). On the other hand, I felt good to know that, thanks to Brian and his blog, after having given vent to your “anger” (I am sorry if that’s not the right word and please correct me on that), you no longer seem to care much about spiritual side of RSSB.
From what I understood, and please correct me if I misunderstood it, you seem to suggest that if we just forget about the spiritual angle, everything – GSD’s personal wealth, RSSB buying properties all over the world worth millions of dollars, etc. – would seem normal. In my opinion, the problem, however, is that if we do forget about spirituality, then there’s no scope for any debate, and then most (well argued) posts on this blog, including yours, would make little sense.
To put it in other words, if GSD is a normal human being like you and me, then he should not be the subject of debate on this blog. But, the fact is that, as RSSB head and the current Sant Satguru, GSD is considered GIHF by millions.
You also seem to suggest that (again please correct me if I misunderstood that) Charan might have considered GSD to me more “disciplined and dedicated” than his own two sons. I will appreciate if you could please elaborate on that a bit more.
A controversial question could be how many of those who do consider GSD (and many other gurus) to be GIHF do so out of love or out of fear. There could be many reasons for the love, but the following doha from Kabir does provide us a reason for the fear 🙂
“Kabir guru manukh kari jante, te nara kahiye andh;
Ihan duhkhi sansar mein, aage jamko bandh;
Kabir is saying: the one who thinks that Guru is human is a blind person. He [the person] is miserable in this world, and will fall to the clutches of Death in the afterworld.”*
*Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/40566745/Spiritual-Verses-of-Saint-Kabir
Blogger Brian, tAo, Moongoes, tucson, Osho Robbins and Mike Williams,
With due respect to Tara’s right of expression, how do you see her moderate tone, for a change?

Very well said, Brian above (in your post of March 17, 2013 at 10:24 PM).
I think if Gurinder comes forth openly (and puts it on some sort of record) on following two things, it will help in clearing confusion/skepticism from many minds:
1. What exactly does he believe his/the Santmat teachings to be, and why is the change (if any) form the earlier teachings required?
2. What is the current worth of all the assets that his family owns and how all that they own was earned in an ethical way?

Hello Avi and fellow Blogsters,
I think Tara’s tone is fine, but if I didn’t, what’s the use? It’s like politics, another topic I’m growing tired of.
You see, I was initiated by Charan Singh in 1970 and pretty faithfully followed the teachings for about a quarter century. Sure, I had a few slip ups with a couple of the vows and didn’t always meditate as much as required, but I kept the faith. I then gradually phased out as another view of life took hold which is actually sort of a non-view. I can’t nail it down.
I used to come to this blog and respond to RSSB comments because it was still of interest to me as a belief I once held for many years. It was interesting to interact with the faithful as an outsider after having been an insider.
It has gotten to the point where I now have nothing to say. The whole thing is just absurd. You either come to that conclusion yourself, or not, but here’s the thing…
It doesn’t matter. Life is just playing with Life. One just is and doesn’t know it. Everything just is and doesn’t know it. We are neither that nor this.
Who is looking for what? There is nothing to look for and no need for any looking.
Understanding is the greatest impediment. If you think you understand, you don’t.
We play at Life as if it were really real and mattered, as if we could actually do something about it. We thought there was a reality that was really real when no such thing could possibly be true.
If there was one reality, who would there be to know it? Think, man, who could there possibly be?
This is not meant to discourage anyone. No need to worry. It’s OK. Eternity always is as whatever we appear to be.

As Avi was asking about Tara i was thinking and moderating answer of praising Tara with unlimited vibes all of this morning, quite a few hours, but at the end i decided i will write only one clause and this is the title which opens up a billion books.
Tara will be my Friend till the end of my days and further!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…….

Thank you to everyone.
With due respect to everyone, based upon my understanding of some prior posts, I was hoping to get involved here in a rational discussion based on logic only, but at least some of the statements in the comments above seem to be too “live and let live” and “don’t think too much” type.
For example: tuscon wrote and I quote:
“It doesn’t matter. Life is just playing with Life. One just is and doesn’t know it. Everything just is and doesn’t know it. We are neither that nor this.
Who is looking for what? There is nothing to look for and no need for any looking.
Understanding is the greatest impediment. If you think you understand, you don’t.”
I am still hopeful, and will continue to post here at least for some time, but only after articulating my thoughts clearly.

Tara,
Thanks for your detailed response. I understand where you are coming from. I am glad that you decided to move on, and perhaps, I also need to do the same. I think that I am currently going through the phase you have already been through. So, I guess, it will take some time before I start thinking like you.
Again, I can completely relate with you when you say, “All that said, I love Charan. As much as I try to get over my time with RSSB, the love that I feel for Charan, continues to stay with me like it is a part of me.”
There was definitely something special about Charan that is missing in GSD (just my opinion).

Avi,
What are you hoping for? The answer to all eternal questions wrapped in a nice concept? There is no rational solution, imo. There is no end to questions. The asker is the answer.
So, I put down some words that don’t compute rationally. Maybe they don’t mean anything. Sometimes such words can be a catalyst for some kind of wordless insight.
Isn’t it remarkable that as imagined subjects we imagine ourselves to be objects while, as such pretend objects, we pose as our own subjects!
What we are could not possibly be limited by a grouping of words into a concept. In transcendence of such concepts we are infinite and inherently intemporal. We are inconceivable because conceptuality cannot conceive its source. As this inconceivable source there are no questions, there are no problems, there is no bondage or freedom either.

Avi,
There was definitely something special about Charan that is missing in GSD
What is it? I was born in 1992 so I never got to see Charan, i hear a lot of ex satsangis say that Charan was special and GSD isn’t.
Thanks

tucson,
As I said to Tara also I can understand where you are coming from. I apologize if I hurt your feelings inadvertently. Please don’t take anything personally.
We mature with time and, hopefully, I will also mature.

One become less when mastering more, Moon

Avi,
Thanks for being concerned about my feelings, but no problem. No offence taken. In this format tone is absent, so words can come across in a way that is other than was intended. We should keep this in mind when blogging. Words are the fog we have to see through.
I am pleased you liked my comment, Tara, as I enjoyed yours. You are one of my favorite voices on this blog.

I never dug into PLM much i mean it did not struck me that much i was curious about the technique but i remember now between satsangs when PLM was mentioned in discourse i thought some dicks were hard and some pussies were wet….he he

Greetings my friends,
Here’s my advice…
Forget about the RSSB. Forget about GSD. Forget about following spiritual gurus and their cults.
The RSSB doesn’t care about you, and neither does its master GSD. He doesn’t ever think about you. Not at all. So don’t waste your precious time paying attention to him, caring about people who don’t give a damn about you.
Do you understand? They don’t think about you. They don’t know you. And you don’t know them. You have nothing to do with them, in any way whatsoever.
Give your caring and your attention to the real people in your life, people whom you do know, like your families, your friends, and the good folks here at this blog. These are the people you actually know and with whom you interact – not some high-and-mighty (pseudo) guru or some big cult.
RS doesn’t give a shit about you. We have contact with each other – other real people – so we don’t need some guy that we never see, and who cares not about us.
The people who come here, who come together on this blog forum, these are the good people who deserve our love and respect. Not some far-away guru.
This is my message to you my friends, to anyone who was ever involved with RSSB, or anyone who is now currently involved. In fact, to anybody who simply comes and here shares their thoughts and feelings on this blog – these are the people that we have real contact with (via the net), and also the people who we actually know and communicate with in our daily lives. These are the people that should matter. These are the real people in our lives. (not some supposed high-falutin guru that we never ever speak to, or have any personal contact with)
This life and the real people that we do know – thats all we really have, and that is what matters. So forget about supposed ‘spiritual gurus’. There are no ‘perfect masters’. No such animal exists. So become free of that myth. Don’t follow after anybody. Don’t sell yourself to these illusions. Live your own life.
Jesus was reported to have once said: “Love ye one another, as I have loved you.”
So, on that note, my love and my best wishes to all of you my friends. Love and respects to you all.
Peace

tAo, nicely said. I heartily agree. I don’t write much about RSSB now, or think much about RSSB now, because I’m involved with living a really real life, here and now.
Fantasies can be fun, such as the fantasy of a “perfect master” or of soaring to the heaven of “Sach Khand.” But reality is better, because it is real.

I think I know what Blogger Brian means by “reality” and “real”…this, here, now, the presence in which we live. I agree with him, but just to mess with words a bit (and not to disrespect his comment) I would say that in “reality” no such thing as “reality” exists.
To discern that there could be any difference between what appears to be “real” and what appears to be “unreal” is misleading since neither one nor the other, both together or the absence of both, could possibly have anything other than a conceptual existence.

Guys,
Leaving RS is like a detox process, initially when you do the detox, you feel anxious and get symptoms for the first few days. But after a while, you feel great! When I left RS, i felt sad, but as time went on, I started to feel better.
I wrote a letter to a top RS regarding my problems in life, I was pursuing better health, I was having health problems and other problems. The RS rep said that I should ‘write these things off and put it to destiny’. When you’re an RS you are subject to such lectures from the speakers etc. They want you to accept these problems.
Now I don’t listen to such crass, I say to myself, I can achieve anything in life if i put my mind to it.
I feel alot freer now that I’m not an RS.
I don’t believe in predetermined destiny and other stuff.

Hey Tara,
Did you watch that video? If so what did you think of it? Over here in the UK, there were a lot of complaints from RS regarding the stuff that was said in the video.

Hi Tao,
Good post. In fact it seems there has been
a series of good posts in the last few days.
Its funny to watch people evolve over time.
The older one gets, the more one realizes
how many mistakes they have made in life.
We seem to all be sharing our mistakes on
this club.
By sharing our mistakes, hopefully future
generations will not have tp make the same
mistakes we have made.
What else can we leave to the children
of the world ?

Look people,
I love animals and hate people. If
you don’t stop posting such intelligent
and compassionate posts here I may loose control…………….
and divorce my wife…. kill Tara’s husband…..
and marry her.

Yes, some of my favorite commenters have been aboard lately like Mike, Tara and tAo.
I also would marry Tara but my wife would kill me if I took the dog with me. Otherwise, she’d go along with it, but I’d miss the dog(and my wife’s cooking).
Yes, Gaz, getting out of the RS cult is a relief. It really was. I even went a step further and began to eat meat. Not because I had a craving for it, which I didn’t, but because I was getting some pre-diabetic symptoms from the high carb veg diet I was on for many years. I gradually replaced wheat and corn with fish, eggs, chicken and finally some beef. It was very weird finding myself eating these things but I could not deny the improvement in my health.
I am not suggesting that anyone start eating meat. I happen to have a metabolic and blood type (O negative) that thrives on the synergy of nutrients found in animal foods. I survive on the veg diet but I thrive when meat is in the mix.
However, I like animals and I don’t like killing things or the methods of commercial meat production so I tend to eat from lower on the food chain, such as fish or eggs.
However, I am willing to bet that anyone who has been a long time vegetarian would be surprised how good they feel after eating some quality red meat like bison, pasture raised beef or elk. Our ancestors roamed the steppe tundra of the Pleistocene as nomadic hunters of big game for tens of thousands of years. It’s in our genes to assimilate this stuff, like it or not.
How’s that for digressing from the theme of this thread?

Very interesting Tara…paleo diet, good cook…hmmmm. Do you have a dog too?
The paleo diet is great. Keeps you lean and fit with only light to moderate exercise. To stay lean on the veg diet I had to workout hard. Not that I didn’t like exercise. I have always enjoyed sports, running, surfing, even physical labor. I like biking, walking and swimming these days. But when the body is not getting what it needs you tend to get cravings and overeat. My weakness was wheat bread which is a killer. Responsible for much human misery, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome, allergies and much more. Fear the wheat, not the meat!
I am not strict paleo as I eat some rice and sweet potatoes but they aren’t necessary and I go for days without them. I just like them and they agree with me, but there are no essential carbohydrates. You can live your entire life without grain or starch as long as you are getting proper protein and fats. Fat is good for you!! Throw in a variety of fruit and vegies and you’re good to go.
Vegetarians are at a disadvantage but they can go paleo as well if they are willing to eat eggs which are a superfood. Nuts and seeds are highly nutritious. Ghee is not strictly paleo but has been known for its benefits for centuries.
Some Inuit tribes ate only meat or fish for their entire lives. I am not recommending this. Most of us would not like dining perpetually on raw seal liver and whale blubber.
Man, am I off topic or what?

hummm…
Indeed. Junk food vegetarians get ill. A lot of what passes for healthy vegetarian food is not at all healthy. Amy’s frozen and canned foods are NOT health building, in my opinion. Fresh and organic vegetarian is essential. It takes a lot of effort though, a solid dedication. Eating vegetarian processed foods will not keep you healthy. Neither will Kentucky Fried Chickens.
Are you familiar with Charlotte Gerson (Gerson Institute), Ann Wigmore (wheatgrass program) and Norman Walker (raw, organic juice)? Arnold Ehret? Google their names. Downing dead animals will not keep you as healthy as fresh ORGANIC non dead-animal foods…including sprouted seeds, soaked nuts, and fermented foods (such as sauerkraut).
Norman Walker lived to be 100 (and plus some say); Charlotte Gerson is 91. Ann Wigmore was healthy and strong at 85, but tragically perished in a fire.

Tucson,
Your post is very interesting, I have always been interested in diet because I am into bodybuilding and power lifting and have had food allergies for a long time.
It was very hard for me to build muscle because I was lactose intolerant, i couldn’t digest soya very well, also I couldn’t digest gluten/wheat either. In addition, not being able to meat and eggs made life hard.
However,I’ve done some research and I now realize that wheat/gluten IS deleterious like you say Tucson.
Also the best way to go is to consume RAW FOODS, by this i mean have foods such as oat groats, quinoa, nuts, spirulina, flaxseed, hemp, goats milk,avacados etc RAW, not cooked.
I’ve worked out that I can get over 150g protein,3k calories,and all the essential fats and amino acids on a raw food diet. This can help build muscle.
The only downside is that foods such as pizza,cookies,donuts are not allowed BUT I will have one off day every 4 months, i will have extensive amounts of pizza,cookies etc in my off days.
I’m going to buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-Food-Factor-Susan-Schenck/dp/0977679519
This will help educate me more with regards to food etc.
Vegetarians and especially vegans and even meat eaters don’t have enough Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D in their diet, I’m asian so my Vitamin D is low at times.
Vitamin B12 methylcobalamin is the key, not the other type, the other one is not suitable for humans.
Ghee is a killer IMO, Ghee is very popular in Indian households, but is known for clogging arteries.

Gaz: There is being a weight lifter/power lifter and then there is bodybuilding and believe me when I say; the approach is completely different…bodybuilding is about aesthetics primarily where strength gains are a by product…..power lifting is about gross strength where bulking up will be by product…In regards to exercise science though…genetics plays a huge part as well as diet and understanding how the body responds to physical stress…man; that’s what I love about the body and specifically exercise science…..I could put you through a workout and make you understand principles such as specificity, frequency, duration, record every workout and show you visible results…..my experience has been the opposite with spirituality…lot’s of theory, lots of emotion and good intentions but ultimately; the only person I can convince is me…and that is usually a result of auto suggestion.

Gaz,
Why do you think ghee clogs arteries? Because of the saturated fat? If so, you’re going on old school information which is called “the fat hypothesis” as the cause of heart disease which is as old as the 1940’s and possibly before. This has essentially been de-bunked in recent decades.
Researchers at Harvard and other institutions analyzed 21 previous studies that looked at the relationship between saturated fat and heart disease. Their mega-analysis involved nearly 350,000 subjects who were followed for between 5 and 25 years. Their conclusion was that saturated fat does not cause heart disease or stroke for that matter.
If you fear cholesterol: When Harvard researchers analyzed data from the ‘Nurse’s Health Study’ they found that half of all heart attack patients had normal cholesterol and that 82% of heart attacks were linked to smoking, excess alcohol, lack of exercise and obesity.
Ghee is high in CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) which has demonstrated anti-cancer properties and regulation of fat metabolism in the body. In other words, it helps to keep you lean by improving insulin sensitivity. CLA is found in animal fats (meat) as well as ghee.
Another benefit of ghee is the high amount of butyric acid which aids the intestine in maintaining a healthy flora and the health of the epithelial cells in the intestinal wall. Anyone who has eaten a lot of wheat would probably benefit from eliminating it from their diets and adding a little ghee which will help repair the damage done to the intestine due to gluten and the lesser known but equally harmful wheat lectin.
I could go on for awhile, but one more thing is that ghee keeps for a long time without refrigeration which is an advantage in cultures where refrigeration is not available, or camping, power outages, etc. and does not become rancid as readily as vegetable oils especially those of the poly-unsaturated variety like safflower, sunflower, corn and more.
Ghee provides essential fatty acids as well. There are reasons why ghee has played a part in ayurvedic medicine for more than a thousand years. Time tested. Time proven.
This does not mean I think people need to go out and start shoveling ghee down their throats, but they don’t need to fear it either.
I am not sure what this has to do with killing the RSSB guru but one way to do it might be putting him on an all-wheat diet.

Tucson,The9thGate,
Thanks for the info guys.
My Dad used to have extensive amounts of Ghee, he had a heart operation a few years ago, I’ve also seen other people have heart ops possibly due to Ghee consumption.
But this could be due to lack of exercise etc.
Maybe your right, ever heard of GOMAD (Gallon of whole milk a day), this is used by skinny guys to bulk up.
I know some people that did this for a few months, they consumed 1 gallon of whole milk a day, that has about 120g saturated fat, they did this for 4 months. They had their blood tested and their bad cholesterol had went down, not up.
So i think you’ve got a fair point, i will look into this.
The9thGate- I do a mixture of powerlifitng and bodybuilding, for about 6-7 months, I do heavy squats,deadlifts, my orientation is to build raw strength.
Then for the 3 months I do bodybuilding routines, this is just to shape the muscles.
I like mixing it up, i also like doing plyometrics, I want to be the ULTIMATE athlete. I want to have strength,speed,endurance, and muscle for the ladies lol.
I don’t like talking about genetics, imo, its about how you apply yourself. Sure, you’ve got mesmorphs, and ectos etc, i disregard such notions and just like to focus on the diet and training.

Tuscon: Thank you for sharing that information with us. My view on ghee has changed after reading that…..I suppose there are lots of myths about ghee which science can now correct….running in parallel to RSSB…there are lots of fables about that group too that we can write off….experience is a great teacher.

Tara-
Haha, I will be going to Haynes Park (UK HQ) next month for Baba’s 3 satsangs, RS usually have tasty food. Last time i went, they had wraps which had tofu chunks,potato,peas in them. Also there was 2 packets of ketchup and spicy sauce that come with the wrap.
They’ve had the above on the menu for years, I remember back in 2007, they had pizza on the menu. I have to say that was one of the best pizza i’ve ever had.
Soya is defiantly a no,no, i guess it’s probalby ok for women, but not for us men.

Tara,
I spoke to Dr Lane about the video, he’s got the same view as me, its ok to criticize RS but the criticism has to be fair. There is obvious ulterior motive behind that video, Sikhs have been against RS for a long time.
I don’t agree with Sikhism, RS is light years ahead of Sikhism. In Sikhs initiation ceromonies they get some tap water and recite a few lines out of the GGS, they think that the water turns to nectar when they recite the few lines. They also bathe in the pool of water outside the temple, they believe this eradicates their sins.
I don’t agree with such practices.
The Sikhs on that show got most of their information from Rampal, this guy is a fraud, he’s been to jail and contradicts things.
However, I do believe that they raised some interesting points, e.g. Onkar is the main word in the GGS but RS say its the second stage.
Also at the end, they got scolded by that guy, that guy told them things they didn’t want to hear, they then dropped that phone call.
Tara-are you based in India? You seem to know a lot about RS.
I also know quite a bit, one of my familys friend knows Baba Jis security guard, that security guard tells them everything.

Gaz,
You wrote: “They also bathe in the pool of water outside the temple, they believe this eradicates their sins.
I don’t agree with such practices.”
–Satsangis believe gazing upon the form of the guru (darshan) eradicates their sins (karmas). What is superior about that? What’s the difference? Do you agree with that practice?
Tara,
Paleo diet, good cook AND three (3) nice dogs? Geez, too good to be true!
Tofu at dera with hydrogenated fats and flour? That’s a killer formula. I guess soy agrees with some people but my body does not recognize it as food, especially tofu. Even though it is soft, it is very hard to digest as it is loaded with phytates which are anti-nutrients that actually block absorbtion of certain minerals and other nutrients. Tempeh is better as the bacteria pre-digest it, but it is foul to my tastes. Soy is one part of the veg diet I am glad to be liberated from.

–Satsangis believe gazing upon the form of the guru (darshan) eradicates their sins (karmas). What is superior about that? What’s the difference? Do you agree with that practice?
Absolutely not Tucson, i said this to a hardcore satsangi, they used to believe the above point, but now they believe that 20minutes darshan of radiant form eradicates their sins.
I don’t agree with the perfect master notions etc.
I just don’t like it when i see Sikhs fabricating a lot of stuff, they need to be put back in to their place.
Quote:
Well, with regard to the video, it was factually correct, IMO. Forget Rampal, he’s a weirdo, the same has been chronicled by the oldest Sikh families of the Punjab. I happen to know a very prominent Sikh historian and he told me the same. This information is archived, but some of it is so old that it doesn’t seem to have a valid voice. The Sikhs of course, bring their hot-bloodedness to the fore and start quoting the GGS and that’s a distraction from the real facts.
Also, I don’t think RS is ‘ ahead ‘ of Sikhism by any stretch of the imagination. Okay, I’m Sikh by birth, but I’m a fringe-Sikh and I’m all for criticism. ( I even pushed the head priest < granthi > of a gurudwara once, in full public view, for reasons that will make for a funny post, someday. ) It is just that I think that RS philosophy is more psychologically damaging than the dictates of other missions and religions. Of course, this is my personal opinion, I was real a bummer at meditation and I couldn’t see the light. The question is, how many have ?
Even though RS masters may not be GIHF, i still believe its the way forward just like Chand said. RS is practical , Sikhism is just book reading, I know many RS who have seen the light. They knew about their death 6 months before hand. Also, one gentleman predicted in 1984 that the next Guru would be a man named Gurinder. This gentleman had a lot supernatural powers. How many Sikhs have had such experiences? IMO Sikh granthis & higher members of the Sikh hierarchy are more corrupt than politicians. I once heard that a Granthi hoovered all the money from the box at the end of the day when no one was there.
RS meditation does work, but it takes a lot of time, IMO, the initiates are the doers, this is in contrast to what Gurinder says.

I am fine with tofu and fine with lacto veg diet and don’t have any special philosophy for vegetarianism .As i said before i love all hardcore asanas and weightlifting and bartendaz style of bodyweight training and in the past i was in Jeet kune do. I also love from time to time juice fasting and water fasting. I am not a special animal lover I see some nice creatures but I see also some very annoying ones. I am usually calm but have this switch in me when turned on I can do some crazy but to me fun stuff like i could box with my hands many times with full force to concrete wall and my hands were like rubber sticks with iron but i don’t do that anymore .I could slam dunk with my 183 cm but that came from constant jumping and 7 to 8 hours of ruff street basketball and I was not used to call any faults and I let other players to go on me hard and I can do some other things too but I am bored to talk about them cause they actually don’t mean nothing special to me. I eat buckwheat and millet and these two make wonders guys, a real wonders and I LOVE raw milk directly from mountains or from local farmer and in the moment I drink milk I feel like I drank gold, really. And I also eat seitan made by me and lots of other stuff. I prepare all my foods alone and I usually don’t eat processed food. I mean in general I do by myself everything like bread, pates, seitan, and all other dishes you know I only buy ingredients from mostly farmers and then what I have on my plate is made by me or my wife’s hands. I like to drink herbal teas from which herbs are from our mountains I sometimes drink CLAY and this is the real shit it takes the devil out of your body and Dear Tucson or anybody if you want to try it we can talk something on it and I could send it to you and the saying here is What this clay can heal, it heals forever. And I tell you how I think, ‘’once I saw one representative around 50 yo eat a banana and and he went on preaching about veganism and I said to him II love milk man and it does wonders to me and that it is gold to me and that I was never sick in my youth and he went on me eeh.. eh .ey.. wait until my age and when you will be sick… and there this my switch goes on and I think and say just eat your banana and stop preaching me with these threats about how I will see when I will be sick. Dude first of all I am not scared of sickness like you are I treat my sickness like my best friend and than when it is time we say goodbye to each other. And dude I will celebrate my 103 birthday with big glass of this beautiful white gold of milk.’’ And Dear ones here I salute you with glass of milk and a little organic cacao, CHEERS

Moongoes,
You sound very informed with regards to health, I will be doing juice fasting next month.
I like goats milk, its very tasty and healthy.
Did you mention Asanas? I’ve been practicing these for a while, they are good. I admire the man who has made asanas popular (Baba Ramdev). That guy is a true saint.
Our food is the key, some people have cured cancer via solid diet and exercise.
I used to think that a good diet consisted of weetabix,cows milk for breakfast,peanuts, white bread and cheese for lunch, and then gluten pasta with baked beans for dinner.
Now my perspective is totally different.
I am interested in learning more about ‘clay’, please could educate me the benefits of it.
Best
Gaz

Gaz,
Thanks for the clarification. So some satsangis believe 20 minutes of darshan is enough to eradicate all your sins? I remember they used to say one glance from the guru can burn lifetimes of bad karma, so the guru is slowing down a bit.
Tara,
I have never been to the U.K. However, I might have a ton of relatives there (maybe several tons) because my father was from the Liverpool-Manchester area, but I never knew him. I actually live in the vicinity of Tucson, Arizona, not the city itself. I live amongst the lizards, snakes and spiny things. One wouldn’t expect an ex-California surfer to end up sweltering in a non air-conditioned knife shop in the desert, but “Californicated” is ruined by poor government, fruitcake politics, heavy taxation and way, way too many people. Sigh. It was a great place once.
Moongoes,
I know a little about cleansing with clay. Over the years I have tried a lot of diets and cleansing methods. These days I don’t do anything special. Generally, the body takes care of itself once you find out what agrees with it and eat a little less than you would like. Learn to enjoy the feeling of being hungry at least for part of most days. Once in while though you need to do some temporary regimen to get yourself “re-set”. We have lemon trees around here. I like to have the juice of a lemon in a large glass of water in the morning. Does this body good.
As an athletic type you have to do more than I do to meet the demands you put on the body. Frankly, I am happy to be liberated from the burden of trying to be super fit and outrun, outplay, outfight and outlive everyone else. I just don’t give a damn. This is one of the few gifts of getting older. You tend to care less what others think. Not that it wouldn’t be nice to have the body of a 20-30 or even 40 year old again. I don’t want to live to 100. I have never seen a centenarian whose condition I envied.

Yo Tucson wau snakes and lizards uf if we ever gonna meat i think you better come to me…I admire you older than me guys and i respect you i use to help much older people than you are learned alot from them (washing them,cleanig wounds, reading stories and making them laugh…uf those were the days..) neither do i wanna live till 100 that was just my story
Love Tucson
Gaz my knowledge of asanas is that Krishnamacharya was one who popularised and Kuvalayananda who was very athletic. My interest in athletic comes from Maxick, Sandow, Sig Klein Pyotr Kryloff i am an old school guy.

Tara,
It was interesting to know the well-connectedness of the “Dera” administrators with the people in the government as a possible reason for the failure of the government to crack down on them.
At times, I also wonder as to why the Indian Government is so soft on the various “Deras” and several other religious organizations. Even the media does not seem to be too keen on exposing them (the politicians are enough to keep them busy anyway !). I have been of the view that both the politicians and the bureaucrats are happy with the things as they are (regarding various “Deras” and several other religious organizations) because, in effect, they are only helping the government by keeping the public “busy” and not allowing people with enough time to think about other important things and also by way of making them complacent (and therefore uncomplaining) by believing in things like “Karma Theory” and “poor destiny” etc.
At the same time, it has always amused me as to how various India-based religious organizations have been successful even in many other parts of the world including the U.S. and the U.K.
I have seen it mentioned at several places on this blog that Americans, in general, are much more analytic and logical in their thinking as compared to millions of less literate and poor Indians, and that’s one of the many reasons for the success of so many cults in India.
Earlier, I had posted the following info, at a wrong place (it seems) on this blog, and am wondering some people here may be interested in knowing about a new “Guru”, with the name of Ishwar Puri, who plans to spread “Santmat” (based on the teachings of Sawan Singh from RSSB) and even establish a “Dera” in the U.S.
Please have a look at the following and especially the embedded video therein:
http://hazursawanishwarpuri.com/dera/
I could not stop myself from laughing when I heard Ishwar Puri explaining to his “disciples” (who also seemed to be amused, interestingly, by the explanation!!) how he chose the place for establishing a new “Dera” in the U.S. Later in the video, Ishwar Puri has also been shown openly asking for monetary and other help from his disciples.
I did some research on my own and found that Dr. Ishwar Puri and his father were among the most prominent “Satsangis” of the Dera Beas, but looking at his website and after watching some of his many video lectures available on youtube, it seems (to me at least) that he is not representing RSSB and rather going on his own. In fact, he is planning to establish “Dera Baba Sawan Singh” in Wisconsin, U.S. on the lines of “Dera Baba Jaimal Singh” in Beas, Punjab, India.
What do you think?

In continuation of my earlier post, I am fully aware that given the huge following they have, it’s not “easy” for the media and/or the government in India to even criticize the religious organizations or “Deras”, let alone, to investigate and take any action against them. But, not long ago, the same was true about the corruption of any politician or a bureaucrat. Thankfully, things are changing on that front, howsoever slow the pace of change may be. So, I think, we can, at least, start a discussion here!!

Hi Tara,
Southern Arizona has a lot of interesting history and geography (as does most of the rest of the planet). It’s worth a visit if you find yourself anywhere near the area.
Since the desert is filled with things that sting, bite or poke you, it is appropriate that I have an interest in knives. However, there are mountains here too with pines and there are riparian zones with year ’round water.
I have practiced a little Silat, an Indonesian knife fighting art which got me into making a few of my own knives which turned into a hobby/business, but I am otherwise retired.

Yo Tucson,
I’d love to go to the US, I’m even thinking of moving there after i’ve finished my degree. I don’t like snakes however, so i guess its going to be hard finding an area to live in which doesn’t have these evil reptiles.
UK isn’t known for many good things, I guess one of the few good things about the UK is that there are no snakes.

Gaz,
Most of the U.S. (Hawaii and Alaska not so much) has snakes, both reptilian and mammalian. One of the worst species is called politicians. Another dangerous species is the dishonest news media. Put the two together and you have a monster.
By comparison, rattlesnakes and copperheads are not so bad. I would not be afraid of the U.S. because of the reptilian type of snakes. It’s not like you have to jump over them to get down the road.
Another type of snake to be wary of is called “guru”. They can be found almost anywhere although they may go by a different name. But a skunk is a skunk regardless of what you call it.

tucson,
Very well said, and this time I am in full agreement with you.
Gaz,
I have been living in the U.S. for a few years now, and have visited quite a few states here by road. So, I can also testify that you don’t have to worry so much about the “reptilian type” of snakes. As for the other three types, they are everywhere now, as nicely expressed by tucson.

I enjoy Tara’s observations:
“Secondly, these Guru-Deras are basically hope-dealing outposts to the millions of poor believers that constitute the majority of their Sangats.”
–And yet many don’t see this, including more sophisticated-educated types, and rely on the large numbers of attendees as evidence that the guru is genuine. Sort of like the rats following the Pied Piper over the cliff.
“A few days ago someone told me that GSD recently said that even sleeping during meditation counts as meditation !”
–This is great news! Although I have been a bit lax in my observation of RSSB vows for the past couple of decades, at least I am not behind in my meditation. Since I sleep most nights for about 7 hrs., I figure I am ahead in the game and the guru owes me big time. Now I can expect the radiant form to pop up at any moment and guide me to a dweep with innumerable hansas on it after a dip in Mansorovar.
I remember Ishwar Puri from the 70’s. An articulate orator and very charismatic fellow like the current U.S. president. He could charm you into believing in him just by spouting rhetoric with style. The ladies were gaga over him. I think he went off and created his own RS splinter group to avail himself of certain “benefits” but my memory is fuzzy on this and it’s hearsay anyway.

Tara and tucson,
Thanks for your comments. I am going to be busy the next couple of days. I will try to post a comment over the weekend. Please don’t take my silence back as anything but what it is.

Peace out guys Tara tAo Tucson Manjit … cause you ARE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrHl0wpagFc

Now I can expect the radiant form to pop up at any moment and guide me to a dweep with innumerable hansas on it after a dip in Mansorovar.
…. We should not expect anything, the master who has the power to give has the power to know what is fit for the disciple.There is still a long way, you have to be a real Gurmukh, attend satsangs, go for darshan and only after that the master can pop up.

I got the great vibe last night for you guys mentioned above while listening to Pixies and than went to thank you online for You just being there.
Guy at the end, you mean Manjit?

quote Juan that the master can pop up
….Juan the things already popped, you just missed them with that mindset.

Ok Tara sorry for my misunderstanding i have to increase my english language knowledge.Yes now i understand your post.Love,M

A big Hi to Tara, Hi Moongoes, Hi Tucson, Hi Roger, Hi Gaz, Hi Avi, Hi Brian. Love you guys. and hello to anyone I may have missed.
Fyi… much ike Tucson, i eat fish and eggs, and also blackbeans. fats like butter, coconut oil and olive oil. also pure unsweetened whey protein isolate. occasionally some small amounts of rice or sweet potatoes or oatmeal. or buckwheat and millet pancakes. (grin) certain vegetables and some fruit. i also do heavy weightlifting and lots of push-uos, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc.
Here’s an interesting fact: Augustus Owsley Stanley, aka “Owsley”, aka “Bear” (now deceased), was a famous counter-culture figure during the 1960s (for certain rather unique reasons known to some of us), and was he also a personal acquaintence of mine at that time. Owsley was also the original financial backer, and also the sound engineer for the Greatful Dead. He also made a significant amount of the ‘acid’ that was distributed during psychedelic revolution of the 1960s – many millions of doses. He was a very spiritual guy too, but in a very down-to-earth pragmatic sort of way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owsley_Stanley
Well, as it turns out, early in his life Owsley became a life-long meat eater. He was on a paleo-diet long before anyone ever even knew about such things. I think he learned it from his studies of anthropology.
Owsley’s diet consisted of only meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy cheese & butter and the like. No vegetables, no grains, no potatoes, no sugars or carbs, no processed food. Yet he was as fit and healthy and strong as an ox right up until his untimely death in 2011 (he died in a car crash near his home in Australia). He also never got sick.
So, let that be a lesson to all you vegans and vegge-heads.
Fats (like butter and coconut oil and meat fat) are good for you. Eggs are good for you (protein a& cholesterol). Fish and fish oil is good for you (omega fatty acids). Meat and poultry is good for you.
You have been brain-washed by wrong information. Soy and soy products are quite bad for you. Sugars and grains and starches are bad for you. Lectins and phytates are bad for you. Vegetables (some) are good for you. Casein is bad for you. Whey is good for you.
You won’t know how much better you can feel until you break free from the vegetarian/vegan taboo about animal products. You have been trapped in unhealthy dietary practices. Many vegetarians and vegans are unhealthy. They don’t sense it when they are young, but they will when they get older.
The RS diet which consists of lots of cooked grains and dairy (milk & cheese)and not much good protein… is a very bad diet. This is why a majority of satsangis are always getting sick and colds and flu. They eat lots of grains and starchs and sugars and dairy. They don’t get any omega fatty acids. Excessive raw food diets are also generally bad too, except for cleansing.
Just eat some eggs and some fish and some good fats and fatty acids for a few days, and stay away from sugars and grains, and you will start to feel much better. You won’t know and understand this until you do it. You just have to do it. Stop listening to all these veggee and vegan diet fanatics. They don’t understand.

tAo…great comment…This is for you….you might appreciate it…..Jerry played a mean guitar but this is pretty good too if you ask me….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVd6rBKOFf0

I myself didn’t start lacto vegetarian diet because of sant mat or any other yoga or philosophy. I was raised on milk and fruits and some little chicken meat but i never felt comfortably eating meat because all of those veins and tendons i found in meat. Uf i never liked the taste of sea food i felt the taste was like my head parked at the port.So i just slowly forgot about meat when i got older.I did looked some great historical vege sports guys and ladies just to support my comfort on my way of eating i mean really great gymnastic and old school weightlifters
but i will not pop links or mention them here cause i am not a preacher to anyone i am just sharing my life.(only if anybody wants some further infos of what i represent).My life and health went astray for sometime because of influence of some hard moments and events happened to me and my trying to heal the wounds with alcohol ganja and cigarettes but old school training and my diet improved it big time.
Gabba gabba hey,moon

Guys guys tAo Gaz RS diet seriously? Oh come on.I met if we talk only of so called satsangis hundreds of them and they were vegans,all other sort of veggie creatures and meat eaters and amongst this they eat very differently.Yes amongst this satsangis i met junkies, ganja brainers, meat eaters, alcohol drinkers,aura healers, ghostbusters and so on. I mean i neverd heard of so called RS diet just one of four vows to avoid we all know what.I mean that any group calling for same reason is kind of stupid, like calling weightlifters and bodybuilders steroid fuck ups just because many of guys used steroids and put black marks on this beautiful art.
And tAo i really liked previous post of you more about forgetting, and now RS diet? That is pussy power, Come on let us forget them as you said so.This is like bigger guy takin on small guy.They(RS) cannot control you they cannot harm you and guys stop giving them power all the time, let us forget.
Gaz tAo come to me i will give you all the food and sleeping rooms for free and we can go to mountains and do and see many other stuff and friends we can do
45 sets of 10 pul ups 45×20 push ups 45×15 dips 45×25 squats for three days staying only on water and the 4 day you will eat my chapaties stuffed with vegetables and seitan made under my hands and mayo under my hands with chia seeds like little children and it will do only Good to you and affter mynth tea original from Egypt you will fly and there will not be any little tinny space for whinning that some food will harm you and affter that we will run up hill for 2000m where air is so clean that your blod vessels will get a new shape and you will feel just like superman.So let us forget like tAo said and stop being pussies and than maybe some beautiful things can really happen.
So guys i already said i lost your mails cause i had comp crash and i cannot write you and all of you who have my mail come on write me cause i Freking MISS You, precious souls.From my heart,Moon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe-BV7OYepI
Life life without music
I can’t go go no
Life without music I can’t go

Yes my dear tAo my dear siddha brother let us dance naked around the fire and roar like wild animals with precious child heart. Keep the Fiyah bunin..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k27suBmV0U
Why try to make I unhappy?
Really I don’t know
If it was up to them, my friend
We would never see the sun nor the snow
Through that mystical communication within
We keep on comin’ together
I love to see brothers and sisters
Lookin’ out for one another
That’s the way it should be
Not contrary, stop tearin’ down each othe
Read more: BUJU BANTON – HILLS AND VALLEYS LYRICS

Greetings to tAo who as usual posted some good info. In addition to Owsley, another proponent of an all-meat diet was Vilhjalmur Steffansson, a noted arctic explorer and ethnologist who lived with and studied the Inuit (Eskimos) in the early part of the 20th century when many of them still adhered to their traditional diets and customs. He has written a number of interesting books that I enjoyed. Stefansson lived from 1879 to 1962.
From Wikipedia:
“Stefansson is also a figure of considerable interest in dietary circles, especially those with an interest in very low-carbohydrate diets. Stefansson documented the fact that the Inuit diet consisted of about 90% meat and fish; Inuit would often go 6 to 9 months a year eating nothing but meat and fish—essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat and entrails.”
–One thing Stefansson wrote about was that Inuit on their traditional diets were largely free of the degenerative diseases we see in civilization today such as heart disease, diabetes, arthritis and cancer. They simply lived to old age, wore out and died.
More than proving the desirability of an all-meat diet I think what is clearly demonstrated here is that humans are omnivores who are able to adapt to a wide variety of foods and diets. I have known both meat eaters and vegetarians who have good health. It is my opinion, however, that most humans do best with some kind of meat or fish as a regular part of their diet. Vegetarians seem to require more supplements than meat eaters who otherwise are on a similar quality of diet.
Also, when we are young, the effects of poor diet are not as apparent as when we are older. I used to run long distances at a fast pace, do it again the next day on a diet consisting mainly of fruit.
It may appear that a vegan diet agrees with us only to find out decades later that we have health issues. The same could be said for a meat eater who perhaps ate too much meat for their body type and activity level or who made other poor food choices.
So, nothing is resolved here.

Tucson it is resolved for me, it is.
One has to find what works for him.
Question is What do you two guys(tAo,Tucson) want now for all of us to eat fish and meat now like you do? Or are you just saying that you finally found your option to your health now.I hope the second.
quote tAo,
So, let that be a lesson to all you vegans and vegge-heads
….come on man is that still necessary from you
…tAo i don’t understand now when you said you don’t like preaching and forcing you opinion on others but now…..i really hope i am wrong but it seems like you do
look,
quote tAo
Just eat some eggs and some fish and some good fats and fatty acids for a few days, and stay away from sugars and grains, and you will start to feel much better. You won’t know and understand this until you do it. You just have to do it. Stop listening to all these veggee and vegan diet fanatics. They don’t understand.
…..
i don’t understand do you call me a brainwashed and veggie head or are you talking with yourself that you don’t wanna be like that cause years ago you used the same approach against meat eaters when you were veggie.
look tAo and Tucson i can swallow that you can think of me or call me brainwashed veggie cocksucker but i cannot withstand if my two idol friends(tAo, tucson) are becoming preachy and put their opinion on force cause once this Moongoes set you as kings of non preaching and opinion forcing and i want for you to stay that kings.
Fanatics are everywhere amongst veggies vegans meat eaters common people preachers religious people and healthy and sick people are amongst everybody too.So popping links and proving something what i walk means nothing to me any more
Guys let us forget and get out of this things accept each other and have a great time till we live here, who needs arguments and tension i think nobody, there are too many stuff on this planet to do so many beautiful things and mine philosophy is
LEARN, NOT PREACH
EAT LESS, MOVE MORE
LIVE!

Moongoes,
Hey, there’s nothing preachy in my post. Nowhere do I tell people to eat meat.
I did say: “More than proving the desirability of an all-meat diet I think what is clearly demonstrated here is that humans are omnivores who are able to adapt to a wide variety of foods and diets.”
Words are tricky and one has to be very precise with them in order to avoid being misunderstood. I can see how that statement could be misconstrued. Instead of saying “more than proving”, which could mean that the desirability of an all meat diet is proven, I should have said, “rather than proving”, which implies that something other than proof was conveyed.
Happy Spring Holiday.
I’m facetiously being PC because the secularists are trying to remove any trace of religious tradition from American culture. Instead of an Easter egg hunt the kids now supposed to go on “spring egg hunts”.
“I found a spring egg! I found a spring egg that the Spring Bunny hid under the bush!”
In Big Bang we trust.
Happy Easter.

Thanks Tucson big time.M

My journey now ends here. Moon -now- goes. I wish you everybody from the deepest of my heart, to reach the primordial state of your life so the names of our paths we are walking on will not be of any barriers and burdens anymore.Moon
P.S. Dear tAo i love you,Moon
SALUTE

Moongoes,
I just now read your comments. I love you too brother, you’re a good man.
And no, I’m not trying to be preachy. I was just sharing some info. If the vegg diet works for you, then good. I was a vegge and a vegan and a raw juicer etc for 45 years. It was good in many ways, but I think it was also deficient in some important things. Like essential fatty acids etc.
Even though I don’t comment here much anymore, I hope you don’t go away. I’m sure everybody likes you here, so perhaps you should stick around. I have not been on the net as much as I used to, these last six months. I have been dealing with various issues in my own life.
As for your jammin workout and food and mountain air, sounds good to me. It would be awesome to come visit you someday. But then I don’t know if I could do 45 sets (of anything at my age (grin).
Like, for instance, I usually only do about 4 to 6 sets of 25 reps of push-ups, 2 or 3 times a day. That equals 12 sets of 25 reps, or 300 push-ups per day. I also do about 10 sets of 10 reps of pull-ups, every few days. I also do 5 to 10 sets of about 20-25 reps of sit-ups, every few days.
And sure Moon, I will definitely email you sometime during the next few days. So hang in there.
For your musical enjoyment, here’s my old friend Neil Young singing Sugar Mountain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVajUY-hBVI

Jump into the Fire (of Something Else)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QghwNqlCRE

Tara,
Long ago, I had heard that Singh brothers (during the time when they owned Ranbaxy) sometimes provided their company owned private jet for some of GSD’s trips. However, I read at a couple of places on this blog that GSD flies in his “own” private jet. Also, I had heard that there were plans to build a small “airport” inside Dera Beas. Could you please shed some light on this?

Tara,
What do you think of Baba Baljit Singh? Are you aware that he is against RS? He recently threatened to knock down Dera Beas.

Tara,
Check out the before http://www.sikhnet.com/news/radha-soami-sect-chief-sikhs-lay-foundation-stone-shrine
And after http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPpqH37s_E
Pretty amazing what the Guru can do, Gurinder was ‘invited’ to Baljits wedding.
Baljit singh won’t be a ‘hardcore sikh’ for too long, there are talks that he might be a future RS speaker.

I recently saw a doc about a company advisor training the direction of very big companies and he said that a shocking large number of these people where sociopaths. These people had much trouble to feel what others feel. They learned however to use tricks and their skills came very handy in reorganizing big companies. In short they where successful. Now the advisor found one general rule. These directors tend to get bored and start all kind of fusions with other companies just to get some action. Often this was the point where the sociopath became a trouble to the organization and this point could simple be recognized when the organization started buying jet planes 🙂
The advise was to immediately get rid of the guy that wanted the jet plane and to hold on to the plane for a while to see who got attracted to it after the buyer was gone and to fire that person too.
That is to get rid of the sociopaths because in the end they will most likely destroy the organization at their own benefit.

Tara,
Thanks for the link to Religare Voyages. I was not aware as to how diverse the Religare business was.
So, does GSD use any one of those planes/helicopters from the Religare fleet for traveling within India, say from Beas to Delhi/Mumbai etc. or has one of those been reserved just for him – and family/friends? Also, how often does he end up using the personal plane/helicopter? I hope he does not use them for International travel but??
Sorry for bothering you by asking so many details but I am trying to compare Charan and GSD in terms of lavish spending – I am assuming all travel expenses are borne by RSSB trust. I know Charan used just a simple white Fiat (and later a Maruti) for many years before “upgrading” to a Premier 118 NE.

Tara,
Babani has been a hot topic recently, you may have seen this link http://www.unp.me/f16/radha-swami-satsang-beas-expose-business-dealings-65652/#ixzz20sgEaPG2
Warning to people that haven’t seen it, its very,very disturbing.

Tara,
When I read that that link i nearly threw up literally. I remember when I was a RS, my mum used to listen to Babanis satsangs, she used to say he is very proficient, he has seen all the stages etc.
I used to think wow, I want to be like that one day.
But in reality he was just preaching.
There are many doctors, dentists,lawyers etc that follow RS, this makes RS credible to some. But its all about psychological feelings, RS and other religions/sects are very good at making depressed people feel good.
I put my hands up, i was going through a hard time in my life a few years ago, I used to listen to Charans satsangs after College for 3-4 hours. I felt good, I used to say to myself, this pain is temporary, I will go to Sachkhand after death.
What these RS followers don’t do is look at RS from a critical perspective, especially the older folks.
Alot of RS followers say that by attending satsangs you are eradicating your sins and consuming parshad also helps to eradicate sins. Also I’ve heard many satsangis say that Baba Ji has back problems and diabetes because of our karmas.
Does that sound right? If you tell your average Joe the above, he’ll say what the hell?
I believe Brian made his breakthrough when he looked at RS from a critical perspective.

Tara and Gaz,
I had also read that post quite a while ago. In fact, I was hoping to ask Tara about it through this blog assuming that she might have more first hand info on the issue.
I myself was very fond of Mr. Babani’s (and also Mr. Mange Ram’s) satsangs, and still have some CDs of them. In my opinion, both of them were very articulate in their satsangs.
I am sure many others would also be interested in the issue, and am glad that somebody like Tara is taking the initiative to bring out the truth about Mr. Babani’s treatment at the hands of RSSB.

Tara,
I fully agree with you that the real issue is to know who is paying for GSD’s travel expenses. In fact, I would go a step further to say that even if RSSB is paying for GSD’s “official” trips, that’s ok, but they should be transparent about all those expenditures. On the other hand, if the official and business/personal trips are all mixed up, then it should definitely be a matter of concern.

Tara
The doc about the organization adviser was on local television. However there are some links on the net that give a better understanding about sociopaths. I’ll provide them below.
The thing is that one should ask who is capable of cheating an old man out of his home like done in the story before. Who is capable of closing down all the charity while living among people that are in much need of it. Who is capable of riding a Mercedes Benz when the people around him are starving. Who is capable of getting millions of dollars for personal use while the people that adore you again live in poverty. Who would feel nothing in that situation? Who would be capable of maintaining an objective business view in that situation? Certainly Charan could not and that makes him a good spiritual person. Some people are from the world and some people are not someone used to say 😉
‘sociopath next door’ is a good book
http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html

If I add it all up than it is a pity that good spiritual behavior has become suspect. I mean the nonsense with the eggs and the ridiculous ego politics of RSSB is easily confused with the sense of a real spiritual attitude. It has really destroyed some good stuff in me. Glad I realize it at last 🙂

Radhasoami mat is true mat and nobody can do wrong eith rssb

THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HARM BABA JI DONT KNOW THAT HE IS SUPREME POWER.
HE KNOWS EVERYTHING.
LOVE YOU SO MUCH BABA JIIIIIIIIIIIIII

all the people who dont know about the babaji should not talk anything about him

BABA JI IS REALLY GOD AND NOBODY ON THIS EARTH CAN HARM OUR RUB

It’s HIM who protects us, not we protect him :). Man kind has always been doing crazy things and this was no exception. They crucified Jesus’s body and thought they killed him :). He is always here in one form or the other guiding us loving us and protecting us from those who have wandered. Blessed are those who have received the grace of Naam and are now meditating with love. I wish I could be one of them. I love my Babaji.

Baba ji is God

Brian tara etc is brainless insensitive people. Satsangies should be aware that God in human form ( it means Babaji) has not come for all souls. These souls are in clutches of negative power. Anything extreme positivity does not suit them. they think that they can convert mind of Babaji’s followers by putting their own mental thoughts. They are power hunger, who want to prove that negativity is more powerful that positivity. That is the reason they are trying from last many years to convert RSSb followers into faithless worshipper of negative power. All their attempts are in vain. Most of Western world people are badly in clutches of bad habbits, meat eaters and human eaters as well with their cunning sharp mind, sharp eyes and sharp teeth to kill everything to meet their own selfish ends like animals. they do not have human sensitivity, compassion, kindness and love for God and His living creatures. I would request to all Satsangies not to comment on this blog of animals. PRAY TO GOD TO KILL THEM QUICKLY FOR THE SIN OF HURTING PEOPLE AND MISGUIDING THEM FROM TRUE PATH TO EVIL PATH……….. Beas is like a open school. Anyone can come to take admission at their will. But nonone is forced or misguided. This thing is made clear in every satsang that they do not need to come back if they can not put it into practice. so non one can claim that they were mentally brain washed or physically forced to follow this path.

ahahha human eaters

According to this logic, the dude who died in the car crash in canada wasnt GOD. Still he had thousands of brainwashed indians following him (parents forcing their kids ofc) Makes me wonder how you guys are so sure about GSD…

Nindia na karo Bhogni ta aapan nu paini.Eh ta daraj hai SGGS wich. Fir why “Nindia” in debate
SAT SHRI AKAL.

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