Sheena’s “Memoirs of a Seeker” throws light on Gurinder Singh Dhillon

More conjecture from a woman who became disillusioned because she was too lazy to meditate enough in those 25 years of service. How ungrateful she is to the master who only treated her bad to wake her from her slumber of worldliness. She obviously failed the master’s divine test.
She talks about the master’s wife having gator skin bags, but did she eat the alligators? No, so there’s no karma involved. We all need leather shoes and other goods to survive in this world. Sounds like this woman was just jealous because the guru treats his wife well and they can afford luxury goods. Karma.
My guess is that she’s been paid by anti-guru parties and isn’t being honest, but if she is serious, I’d advise that admit her wrong doing, apologize to guru ji, and get back on the path as soon as possible.
Life is too short, and only the master can provide the bani to pull us out of darkness and samsara. Don’t waste precious time on grudges with god on earth.
haha j/k sounds like the guru is a dick

blind belief and faith never leads to truth.
most of us find this out the hard way.
I too spent the earlier part of my spiritual journey looking up to the various gurus I met.
The Sant mat teachings create that feeling because the master is considered sat purush come down to earth.
However, Baba Gurinder has changed that in his new version of the spiritual journey.
He tells people not to put him on a pedestal. They continue to do so.
I get criticized for the way I speak to him (as I speak pretty directly) by many of his followers.
Many think I am arguing with him. But I am just asking him to comment and engaging him with possible objections. Many consider that dis-respectful. I don’t
People who worship him, or consider he has some divine powers and the same people that are expecting him to show up at the time of death to take their soul to inner regions.
Sheena had to drop those ideas and the only reason she could do it was because she had a closer connection with him than most people will have.
Otherwise most of the followers cannot afford to drop those ideas because once they drop them, who is going to come at death to save them? Most followers hold onto that hope which is why even when he says he us not coming – they don’t believe it even for a minute.
They believe he is just saying that to motivate them to meditate, but he will still come at death.

IQ_dull_Shame to those . . accepting this hearsay but ‘welcome’ attack
without RSSB
without dates
without proof
without names
without locations
false
not even circumstancial evidence
So Brian better find a third slandering story
to print in PDF
a few times
calling it a book
777

All you have to do is look at the pictures of Gurinder over the years to see “proof” of his change. He hasn’t had many taken but in the first he was nervous and unsure of himself, in the second he was comfortable and happy, in the third/forth he had no light left in his eyes. And the last picture taken of him under an archway at the Dera… well, all you have to do is expand the picture and look at his eyes. Truly negative energy emanating from the windows of his soul.
He’s very fortunate that hell has frozen over. I also read the book and it’s in line with many dates if you can solve simple pre-algebra word problems.
444

Our ( both of us here in France ) radiant View of HIM, seeing GURINDER
24/7 inside of us
couldn’t change
I see this as parallel to Brian’s refused 1991 book story,
and see what hostile effect this had in this group
Recalling it in a chapter here , Brian couldn’ even use
the “I did such & so” . . . but it was someone else
Charan had also mainly ladies approaching him
at night for Self gratifications
and we all know how disappointed Egos can react
This ‘book’ could have been written by anyone for revenge / money
777

777 your powerful imagination is great, but you’re a dangerous person. People like you become “fall guys” when bad things happen because you’re so easy to manipulate. Just like the Bloomberg story and how everyone took the blame for Gurinder’s wrong doings, you’d do that too. Maybe the mafia is hiring.
You believe all the hearsay in RSSB books to such a degree that you’re willing to lie to yourself about seeing glowing Sikhs inside your head, but after many repeated stories from people who know the real glowing Sikh that you fantasize about in your head doing bad things in real life, you refuse to accept it.
The glowing inner sardar knowingly sold dangerous and dirty meds to people. Being rude to a lady is small beans. He’s a fraud, and so are you and anyone else still not ready to deny his divinity.
I wish my initial comment had gone through. It’s so easy to predict how believers will respond.

Jesse do you think you can practice suratshabd yog further by yourself if one is liking it? Example i like ashtanga vinyasa and is really doing great to my body but i never liked and even listened to Jois i just learned it myself..i mean i am autodidact on many things and i like it like that. Peace

Who today has felt all seconds happy, sublime, as in Adi Granth ( paraphrasing ) :
“Those, . . who hearken to the Word, are the Creation’s Cream
and the whole world is in blossem and bloom to them”
There is no fault in HIM
777

Holy shit..

So good that she found God..
I am very happy for her that she has her Love found inside herself..
I understand..
Same with me.
Maybe we needed the path to find out that it was always there right inside our ownselves.
That we do’nt need an out guru.
s*

777, and other true believers with their heads in the sand, I’ve heard from several people who know Sheena and have verified several of her disturbing stories about Gurinder Singh from other sources.
I realize that it is difficult to accept the truth. Truth requires facing reality head-on, which can be tough, while religious fantasies are pleasant dreams, tempting to embrace.
It is much better to choose truth, though, because reality is all that will sustain us. Our illusions are too shadowy and ethereal to truly satisfy.

I foresee a #metoo happening here… I’m sure there are many more stories like hers, but most people are afraid to speak up for numerous reasons. I appreciate Sheena’s courage very much.

Gurinder is no ordinary man. He’s a spiritual vampire.

@ Sarah
Gurinder is no ordinary man. He’s a spiritual vampire.
Please explain the above?

@ Brian. Hello and I hope you are well?
I have been sent from the year 2056 in a military experiment to help you protect you from you in this time.
After reading the above you are probably laughing. You see on the Internet one can say anything:-)
This woman Sheena needs to come out and your sources need to reveal themselves – otherwise as much this story may be true. There is no evidence without the main actors making an experience.
Sorry buddy – just saying it as it.

Arjuna, as noted in a previous comment of mine, I’ve gotten confirmation of several of Sheena’s stories about the guru from people who have spoken with others who had knowledge of what happened between Sheena and Gurinder Singh Dhillon.
I know people who know Sheena. Do you? What evidence do you have that what she says is untrue? Sheena has changed her name to protect her privacy, as many people on the Internet do. She may also have altered bits of her story to protect her identity. That isn’t unusual.
What I find astounding is that true believers are eager to believe supernatural fantasies without a trace of evidence backing them up, but they aren’t willing to believe a woman who wrote a book about her experiences with Gurinder Singh and life at the Dera — who is a real person known to others who have confirmed her identity to me.
Sure, everything on the Internet, or in life, should be questioned.
But Sheena’s story fits with numerous other stories about how the RSSB guru has been behaving, so her story has a lot of credibility. Doubters, on the other hand, are motivated by their desire to continue to believe in the RSSB teachings, even though Gurinder Singh himself has said that those traditional teachings aren’t true, and he acts in ways that are contrary to those teachings.
If you’re skeptical about Sheena, then you should be REALLY skeptical of gurus who are considered to be God in human form and have mystical/supernatural powers.
If you read Sheena’s book, you’ll find that Gurinder Singh doesn’t even normal human common sense. He advised her to sell her home at the height of a New Delhi real estate market, after which it crashed. Then he advised her to invest the sale proceeds in the stock market, which then proceeded to drop.

Arjun, there are secret anonymous witness testimonies used in court trials. Knowing who this lady is isn’t important.
We already have evidence of similar behavior from others such as Gurinder throwing a book manuscript across the floor in anger, Gurinder asking if “girls around here like to f***” and other choice guruisms. That last one is scary in light of the possibly tens of thousands of rapes of underage British girls by non British men that were covered up.
Point is, this book merely serves as more evidence of what we already have reason to suspect is true. Even if it were all fiction, it’s nothing more than highlighting what we already know.
We’d maybe need more evidence in a court case, but to dismiss any claims of this man’s moral perfection and godhood there’s sufficient evidence as it is.

@ Jesse and Brian – fair points from the both of you.
Perhaps its my desire to know the facts and details of a hostile situation due to my military training and missions which make me ask these questions. But that is just me.
However, I do not know this woman and nor do I know the sources you know Brian.So I give you that. Yes agreed if she came out she may become a target….etc. So probably not the best of ideas:-)
Not a criticism but just stating my viewpoint.

@ Brian
*If you’re skeptical about Sheena, then you should be REALLY skeptical of gurus who are considered to be God in human form and have mystical/supernatural powers.*
I only trust my team as we would bleed for each other- I trust no one else. That includes Sheena and Men purporting to be Gods! And yes I do have trust issues with people in the outside world but that’s my demon:-)

“He advised her to sell her home at the height of a New Delhi real estate market, after which it crashed. Then he advised her to invest the sale proceeds in the stock market, which then proceeded to drop.”
Doesn’t it also say somewhere in these snippets you provided that the guru had racked up tons of personal debt? As is confirmed with all the family business drama in the Bloomberg article, a large part of their strategy was to take on massive debt to fix bad financial decisions, so that’s just one more thing that adds up.
My hope at this point is that Gurinder’s biggest vice is greed, and not any kind of perverse lust. With all these worldwide sex scandals going on in the secular world as well as the religious, I’d hate to hear that Gurinder was part of something in that sick world, especially if it involved kids. So far it doesn’t seem that way, but if disciples are hiding everything else, what’s to say they wouldn’t hide more vile secrets to protect their master? They’ve done it for Afro Sai Baba and many others.

Arjuna writes,…..”I only trust my team as we would bleed for each other- I trust no one else. That includes Sheena and Men purporting to be Gods! And yes I do have trust issues with people in the outside world but that’s my demon:-)”
Me: You can trust me, I will never lie to you. You might misinterpret what I say, but I never lie to ANY serious Seeker that I can help to escape the Matrix of Kal. Finding another soul that won’t lie to you is very difficult to find, any where in the world, these days.
I won’t bleed for you tho. When the fight breaks out, I’m too old to fight and too fat to run
😇
Jim Sutherland

@ Jim lol
I salute you Sir!!!! I mean. And you can be fat I will carry you any day! I can bench press 150-160 KG so as long as the Divine breathes life into Arjuna- I would carry you!
And no you are not bleeding for me- I will be your shield! Just make sure you know how to make a good brew out in the jungle or desert or where ever are lol. Milk and two sugars and strong please!

Gurinder knows how to manipulate devotion… spiritual devotion or what have you. I try not to get too much into that side of things as it is subjective. But I would definitely encourage anyone considering becoming a devotee of his to stay far, far away.
Wow, just saw a new pic of the guru posted online… the RSSB/GSD Public Relations army is out in full force! They are working overtime doing damage control to contain this train wreck of cascading… incoming media onslaught. And if you don’t think there’s a powerful crew of PR management for RSSB, think again.

@ thank you Sarah.
Where is the new photo if I may ask?

Arjuna you seem to me like well Man. I would like you to train me some day. I can listen to training stories all.day.

Hello Marko – What country are you in? If I may ask.
You should join an Army boot camp if you have one in your area- these are usually run my ex military personnel. Basically its Gym training – Army style. And it usually breaks you if you have not got core strength.

Arjuna,
I would love to train with you, I’m still recovering from a serious ailment so I can’t lift too heavy but I can still do 1500 push ups in 40 minutes with good form.
I also do tons of Hindu squats like 500 in 10 minutes.

Yes Arjuna you may ask but would rather told you in email

Gus thats quite a feat. May i ask at what age are you able to do this? What else do you train?

@ Marko – no worries. See if you can find army training in your country.
I would not be able to train you as I would compromise a lot of things and the plan is for me to go on tour once my injury is gone – hopefully in the next 4 weeks..
Hope you understand.

All is well.

Hello Marko
Im 36

777, you’re back to making no sense (if you ever were). That’s why your comment wasn’t published. Stop with the stream of consciousness gibberish and talk as if you were having a face to face conversation with someone. Your comments often sound like the ravings of a crazy person, and no one is interested in reading that sort of stuff — other than you, i guess.
Sheena has shown a lot of courage in writing her book, and describing several instances of what sure sound like sexual harassment at the Dera.
If you have evidence that what she says isn’t true, show it. If you don’t have that evidence, then stop claiming that Sheena isn’t speaking the truth.
I have zero tolerance for people who excuse sexual harassment, and I also have zero tolerance for people like you who doubt women who come forward with their stories when there is no reason to doubt them.
I’m OK with you insulting me, but I’m not OK with you or anyone else trying to insult or intimidate Sheena.

Me is 40…family guy ..musician who enjoys in other peoples feats and art…i like to learn …want to stay student for all my life

Marko,
I’m 26 but I’ve only been training for a few months, I follow a guy named Herschel Walker, he is one of the best athletes of all time. He excelled in NFL, Bobsledding, running and MMA. He basically eats only one meal a day and does 2000 push ups, and 3500 sit-ups a day.
The guy’s freak of nature.
I want to start doing MMA, but I’ve got a tryout with WWE, I’ll see how that goes.

Marko, you asked about doing Surat Shabd Yog without a master in that technique. From what I can tell, inner sound based yogas are pretty much all over the place.
In the video I’m linking to is a Chinese Buddhist talking about one inner sound technique used to contact the “soundless sound” that leads to hearing some sort of sound of heaven, and he never mentions the need for a “perfect living master.” The TV show host calls him master but it has an entirely different connotation than that of a modern Indian guru.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxQaLcfcavo

Hi Jesse i actually thought if one is already initiatef like rssb..but than goes on by himself without dogma, satsang,guru or theology around rssb..cause i was never that in ..in the whole rssb thing but i always loved meditation because i dug deep…

@Arjuna
The photo isn’t “official”. It’s actually mixed media, but it has been optimized to appear with the official RSSB pictures in a ‘Gurinder Singh Dhillon’ search online. It’s very flattering… much kinder looking than any of the photos RSSB has released.
Here’s a link that should take you there:
https://goo.gl/images/xdpuC2

Sarah,
I have seen the original of that.
This has nothing to do with Dera promoting it or anything like that.
You probably have many reasons to spread fake things,
However I noticed that you corrected yourself that statue is at round about not at main gate.
What you’ve posted is a portrait by someone
of actually a candid photo of the Master during his external visit.
here is the original one:
http://www.khalsanews.org/newspics/2013/03%20Mar%202013/06%20Mar%2013/Baba%20Gurinder%20Dhillon.jpg
I wish you courage to come back here and correct your non-sensical posts.

One Initiated,
If I were a member of that cult, it’d be of far greater concern to me if the Guru was hiding sexual assault cases that he was aware of, and not the authenticity of stupid photographs.
If you’re trying to protect your dear leader, you’d better start making sure he’s not hiding any crimes against kids in the dera, too.
There might be so much more than is revealed in this book. History tells us that it’s to be expected actually.

Brian says: “Sure, everything on the Internet, or in life, should be questioned.”
I agree wholeheartedly.
Once again, its hearsay, Sheena’s version of who and what Gurinder is all about.
Brian says “I’ve just looked through the parts describing Sheena’s initial infatuation with Gurinder Singh…”
Uh oh, don’t like the ‘infatuation’ part.
Sheena says: “Guruji turned to me, raising his voice. ‘After sleeping around with so many men, who are you to advise her on marriage?'”
Really! He said that?
There is no smoke without fire.
Its sounding like a woman scorned? Looking for some kind of revenge? Something suspicious about this and I don’t buy it.

777, if you keep up your gibberish, I’m going to have to ban you from commenting altogether. Get your act together. Obviously I didn’t write Sheena’s book, and obviously Sheena is telling the truth about what she experienced. Your religious fantasies are getting to be a bore.
Like I said, I’m OK with being insulted, but I’m not OK with you insulting Sheena. Discounting and challenging what she wrote isn’t acceptable to me, as I’m 100% against putting women down who complain about sexual harassment. Commenting is a privilege, 777. Start acting like a normal human being, and not a religious zealot.
Imagine this every time you write a comment: picture yourself sitting in a coffeeshop, talking with the person you are writing about. If you wouldn’t talk about Sheena face to face as you talk about her in a comment, then don’t say that in a comment. Be respectful. Be coherent. Be clear with your language.

Brian you obviously did not like my comment at 07:18pm or its gone to spam.

Jen, what do you think about the allegation that he knew of sexual harassment and/or assault and did nothing about it?
It would be the norm for Indian ashrams for there to be hidden sexual misconduct so it’s hard to so easily dismiss it.

Jen, your comment went in the spam folder. Please stop criticizing me. I do my best to check the spam folder several times a day. Don’t jump to conclusions about me not liking your comment. You’re right. I didn’t like it, because it was untrue. Here’s what I was about to post in response to what you said:
—————–
Jen, I’m amazed that you’d be surprised at me using the word “infatuation.” This is how many, if not most, RSSB initiates feel about their guru initially. Everything is so wonderful, so perfect, so loving. Sheena had the benefit of many close personal interactions with Gurinder Singh and his family. So she was able to see through the facade, the illusion, of the guru that the vast majority of initiates never are able to become aware of.
For your information, I’ve heard from another person more details about the “sex-shaming” comment by Gurinder Singh. This gives me confidence that the episode actually happened. You may not be aware of how many people share information about what the guru is doing, and what is happening at the Dera. I frequently hear from people with insider info regarding RSSB goings-on.
I realize that you want to think the best about Gurinder Singh, but the truth is more important than anyone’s feelings. What Sheena wrote about fits with numerous other tales of how Gurinder Singh has changed after he became infatuated, to use that word again, with money and power. Believe me, there’s more dirt to come out about RSSB, I’m quite sure about that.
The coverings are being removed. Truth is being revealed. This is making many RSSB devotees uncomfortable, because reality can be difficult to embrace. It’s necessary, though.

777,
I don’t even use a proxy or vpn here. My real name is Jesse. Unlike you, a guy with severe mental health issues who’s stuck in a cult, I have very little to hide. You’re afraid to tell people what your first language is. I tell people where I live, what my parent’s nationality is and anything else I feel like talking about.
Since Gurinder is a public figure, it would be extremely difficult to raise a serious case of slander against me, especially since it’s not slander to say that some man isn’t God, unless USA descends further and unassimilated people from the 3rd world implement their kangaroo courts here.
But again, I don’t know who you’re talking about because you don’t know how to write coherent sentences in English. Are you threatening to take people to court for slander? That would be hilarious since how can we slander 3 numbers and what seems to be writings from a virus infected bot server.
Do you want people to take you to court? Are you saying we’re gonna get taken to court because we’ve insulted random Indian Glowing Godman? Let us know little guy. I’ll give you my I.P. if you want it or think it will help you. Until then, don’t forget to take your meds.
Nobody can understand you.

Brian, I was a true spiritual seeker and thought Charan was an enlightened being and now have changed my mind about Sant Mat but would never have likened my original belief to “infatuation”.
Its very disturbing to think that there is some kind of misconduct happening with Gurinder and his female followers.
I do appreciate your blog and thanks for the reply.

777, I’m getting tired of deleting your gibberish and insulting comments. From now on, I want you to only post your comments in an Open Thread, of which two are showing in the Recent Posts list in the right sidebar.
If you don’t do this, I’m strongly leaning toward going back to moderating comments — which means no comment gets published unless I approve it.
I don’t want to do this, because I realize that most commenters on this blog are respectful both to me and each other. But one bad commenter like you can ruin it for everybody.
I’ve given you plenty of warnings, but you keep on ignoring them. I’m being quite reasonable to demand that you keep your comments in the Open Thread posts, since you rarely leave a coherent comment on my substantive posts.
It’s your choice: either put your comments in an Open Thread, or you won’t have your comments published at all, and you’ll be responsible for making every other commenter on this blog wait until I approve their comments for publication.

@One Initiated
Oh… OK. And as my nieces would text—pfff (I’m still not exact sure what that means but they are adorable)

One Initiated, your comment got deleted because I have no patience for people like you who call women’s reports of sexual misconduct or sleazy sexual behavior “fake.” Shame on you, and shame on every dogmatic RSSB believer who makes excuses for Gurinder Singh and the conduct he tolerates — both at the Dera and in his personal life.

In Soamiji’s time there was a woman who sucked his toe and underwent ”shabd”as I have read it.
They used water pipe.
Maharaji did not want become a master because he knew he could not be the one..he had no special spiritual gain.
He played his role very good..but..He did not really like it.
Go from the form to the formless his last words on his photobook.
Then Gurinder came..so different..

Well, ofc Brian, it’s very clear that you are biased towards those who
resonate with your opinions of being against the Masters.
And well, in a sense you are rightful to do that since you are the owner(tenant)
of this space.
However, this sheer biasing ditches the author-reader relation badly.
There are many many other commenters, the first and foremost these days
is Jesse who has posted so much rotten and ugly stuff since last month
and you’ve never expressed in similar tone ever.
Save some shame for yourself as well, you will require that badly.
You play a role of a critique,
and what an irony that you can not withstand your own critiques.
If you don’t realise, you need to scroll through the comments of Sarah,
who has posted contradicting comments.
Did you realise the above comment of Sarah and the response I added,
do you think what Sarah mentioned in her comment was true ?
And when I responded to it, she chickened out writing absurd.
But yeah, you are still cool with that, because again you are standing
on the same podium.
This sort of partiality is actually disturbing and disgraceful.
Anyways, this is what it is – so cool.

@ Sarah
That’s an old photo – been in the web for ages.

@ Brian – I appreciate the response you gave me – I myself am conflicted and don’t know to believe in God or not. But I don’t believe in there nothing being there.
However I do agree agree somewhat with one initiated – you are showing signs of being vindicative now. Take that the right way. This is not a support of rssb ad I am saying this to you as human being. You worship Gurinder than most of his followers.
Also be wary that most of your sources will deny or turn away – should Gurinder turn his guns on you – a lot of what has been said is slander. If Sheena felt hard done or if she noticed the serious charges she should have gone further to authorities in India.
Be careful my friend I know her people are like when the sit hits the fan. You will find no one of worthy nite stands with you!
All the best and be good

777 mentioned fake accusations, which is the only meaningful thing he’s ever posted here, but doesn’t understand that even false accusations need to be investigated.
The trial by media and public opinion stuff is evil, but so is the immediate denial of even the possibility of something like this happening.
Sexual misconduct is somewhat normal in Indian ashrams. To simply say we should ignore it here is akin to saying that even if true it’s ok.
Get out of the cult people. It’s made you callous and spiteful.

Wow! So finally we move, now, from simple off-the-cuff jokes about tits and butts (which most sane non-religious folks who aren’t channeling some particular theology would brush off as inconsequential), to the real deal. To “sewadars” actually harassing women “devotees”, and the Guru not doing much about it, much like within the RCC hierarchy — or at least, to definite accusation of such.
Of course, any charge, any accusation, needs to be actually proved, not just simply leveled off. And of course, no defendant is obliged to prove their innocence. Nevertheless, as with the “Me Too” movement, I think we owe to women who come out with allegations of this nature against powerful people, our whole-hearted support (if only provisionally, and conditional to their allegations being proved true subsequently).
Also, GSD’s apparently dismissive and overtly sexually loaded comments against the author — unless of course there is some context that clearly justifies such a comment, not that I can off the cuff imagine any “context” that might justify so eggregiously disrespectful a remark — ill suit a so-called spiritual leader.
Of course, “Sheena” makes clear, in the initial excerpt here, that GSD himself is not involved, at least not with her personally. But still, the other things she speaks of are disturbing too.
Does RSSB — the functionaries there at the top, perhaps the Guru himself — ever read this blog, I wonder? If they do, I think it’s time they came out with a clear engagement with this kind of serious allegation. Because this goes beyond a simple harmless joke about butts and tits. Unlike simple jokes of that nature, this kind of a serious allegation cannot — and should not — be brushed off.
.
Of course, my saying that this “should” be investigated does not actually mean that such will be done, I realize that. Especially when it comes to religions, people are known to go off scot-free with all kinds of misdemeanors and actual crimes that lesser men would go to jail for, with only exceptionally egregious transgressions actually punished. There are sexually adventurous godmen aplenty, and choir-boy-diddling priests aplenty, merrily going about their lives, who bear evidence of religion, across the world, continuing to cloak these misdeeds, even in this day and age.
Should Sheena be reading this blog post about her book, and this comment here, then I whole-heartedly — if conditionally, since this is after all only one side of the story — extend my own support, for what that is worth, to her. It takes a great deal of courage to come out against forces so overwhelmingly more powerful than one.

I smell BS here….if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is…
Read eastern mysticism and you will see they have called out many who surrounded them….they call an ace and ace and a spade a spade when needed.

“if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is…”
Not necessarily. It’s pretty common for people to write memoirs and use pseudonyms in place of real names.
What do you mean “read eastern mysticism?” It’s a vast topic. Nobody can read it all.

Quote Mystic : I smell BS here….if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is…
Obviously that is one possibility. It could be that you’re right, of course.
But surely you see how difficult it might be for a person who’s been mired in that environment for whole decades, and many of whose friends and family number among the faithful, to come out and clearly announce their own name as well as clearly denounce the particular “Guruji”? After all these are rich and powerful people, and overwhelmingly powerful in the context of someone’s whose social life might revolve around RSSB.
I agree, we mustn’t rush to condemn without actual evidence, but surely you agree that this courageous lady deserves our respect and support? If only provisionally?

@ question why would the master say to her: “ who are your give advice ” bearing in mind the number of men you have slept with?
Sounds fishy – pardon the pun lol

Assuming he said it, it could be for a number of reasons. One would be simply to demean her so she’d shut up about something. Maybe she confided in him about her personal life and he used it against her.
Who knows?
People say mean stuff all the time. As always, none of this would be much of an issue were it not for the money, scandals, and the fact that this man is considered to be the pharaoh.

Jen wrote:
Sheena says: “Guruji turned to me, raising his voice. ‘After sleeping around with so many men, who are you to advise her on marriage?'”
Really! He said that? There is no smoke without fire.
Its sounding like a woman scorned? Looking for some kind of revenge? Something suspicious about this and I don’t buy it.
…Jen, its normal IMO for these Gurus. For me it would not be surprising even if this sort of behaviour was by Charan Singh or Sawan Singh. Knowing these Gurus after listening their satsangs just for few hours a year is difficult.
Arjun wrote:
If Sheena felt hard done or if she noticed the serious charges she should have gone further to authorities in India.
…Arjun, what authorities you are talking about? theoretically yes, but in practice no authority is going to hear her, on the contrary in case of a normal person, the so called authorities would definitely drag that person in some other serious offence which could easily ruin his/her life. Operating an Ashram of that magnitude, needs contacts and ties with the highest governing authority of the state at least, and without donating to the political parties, its impossible, and the Guruji is in the front row. In such situations the only option is to escape.
Jesse wrote:
Sexual misconduct is somewhat normal in Indian ashrams. To simply say we should ignore it here is akin to saying that even if true it’s ok.
…Jesse, sadly yeah, Brian’s awakening the public through his blog is definitely a bold step.
Mystic wrote:
I smell BS here….if the author had any true evidence she would have put who the guru is…
…What sort of evidence the author should have? Which Ashram do you know is having a Living Guru, equipped with shopping Mall , school and big houses etc.? None.
Further, if she puts the name of the Guru, do you think the followers of the Guru, or the Guru himself would let her live in peace, especially in India.

Or he could see her for what she was 😀
Gods can do that😀

It’s possible. I don’t believe it because the ratio of godmen to normal men pretending to be godmen favors the normals, but anything is possible.
There are people who feel spurned and end up turning against their spiritual masters in publishing deals, but even then the stories are generally filled with many truths which otherwise remain hidden. One of those “Amas” had a western disciple who wrote a book about behind the scenes events in the Ama cult, and assuming even half of it were true, it’s still far, far more than the cult wants revealed.
Cults are in the business of avoiding transparency.

One Initiated, my bias is toward women who have the courage to speak out about sexual harassment by rich and powerful men, which includes gurus such as Gurinder Singh Dhillon. I am relentless about this. Maybe you live in a country where harassment is tolerated. Here in the United States, our eyes have been opened by the MeToo and TimesUp movements.
As I’ve noted before, it’s amazing that you and other RSSB religious true believers are so willing to doubt the credible accounts that Gurinder Singh ignores sexual harassment at the Dera, while you want religious skeptics like me to unquestioningly accept unfounded claims of supernatural experiences.
You’ve got things backward.
You should believe women who come forward with disturbing stories about Gurinder Singh unless there is solid evidence to dispute their account, and you should doubt supernatural stories unless there is solid evidence to support that account. Why? Because we know that sexual harassment by rich and powerful men is common, while there is no demonstrable evidence of supernatural experiences.

@ Brian – poor men sexually harass women too. So what’s your point?
In fact more poor and the average joe are bonking (fucking and cheating) like mad.
You haven’t been on a dating site as you have been married along time – mate it’s rampant. The rich do it as most women flock to them like STD diseases in a prostitute!!! Sorry for the crude langaunge. Perhaps you need to spend a week or two with me in England – I will show you what poor men and women do!!!
I don’t believe In supernatural crap however I don’t rule out!!!

@ truth be told Athiests are the worst as they think they are GOD – fear no higher power. Are stuck up their own arses (intellect) and fuck, take drugs, cheat and do much more. They think they don’t have to answer to anything!!!!! Saying how it is – spend time with me I. London with some athiests!!!
Not backing them up but at least The majority of Gurinders followers lead clean and decent lives. And their eating habits and actions don’t impact the environment. And before you start I know a lot of decent ones!!! Who have made me feel welcome on Christmas Day – compared to atheists!!!!
My beliefs and my opinion from my observations!!! And not from “sources” !!!!

“their eating habits and actions don’t impact the environment”
There are organic farming methods that are far more destructive than normal conventional methods of raising livestock.
As to the fact that not only rich people do bad things, nobody would dispute this. Bad behavior isn’t class specific.The difference is that the rich tend to be able to buy their way out of trouble.
It’s not even men who are solely implicated either as we now see with one of the main proponents of meetoo now having her texts leaked wherein she reveals her relationship with an underage boy and that she thinks it’s justified.
But there does seem to be an overrepresentation of men in these cases.

I don’t know about your views on atheists, either, Arjuna.
The most religious places I’ve been are the most corrupt and dangerous, and there’s a lot of overlap according to international transparency index too, though I think they’re slightly politically biased.
Atheism may or may not be good for society, but I see no evidence that it correlates with crime or other things destructive.
Satsangis seemed decent to me in USA, but there were a lot of hidden scandals and gossip in the community too. Just pretty average overall.

And sorry for so many posts, but I wanted to say in response to your diet comment that almost all the vegetarians and vegans I’ve known were atheists. This is just my experiential anecdote. Take it how you want.

I was thinking my idea of a master was like that scene in Ben Hur – where charlton Heston falls after a long march being a slave and the Romans won’t give him water.
All you see is a shadow and then a hand with a bowel of water – charlton Heston get given water by Jesus Christ.
That was all my desire and dream to see him as opposed to this bullshit of intellectual atheists, RSSB, Religare, the One, Bloomberg articles, sheenas book, the Singh brothers etc etc etc
All some of wanted was a simple life where we could get to meet the divine and have hope.
Peace to all on here – I’m bored with this now. Time to get better and kick ass so that you guys do not know pain and sleep well at night. Bogeymen do exist until they come across my ilk!
Over and out

Never apologize to me, Arjuna haha. Have you seen how I write here?
Venting is good, and I don’t even necessarily disagree with everything you’re saying, but I simply don’t have enough evidence to know.
Crush or not, there is a certain fondness felt between ex believers often times. Just as communities spring up around belief, so do they around disbelief. I know I’m always more interested in what ex-satsangis say here than what satsangis say. Even if I disagree with an ex-sangi in general, I know that we’ve taken a similar train of thought through the belief system to end up where we are and I respect the journey they’ve gone on.

@ Jesse you write cool! And I agree with your sentiments .

” After sleeping around with so many boys, who are you to advise her on marriage ? ”
He publicly shamed her. Gurinder is really despicable – a thoroughly vile, hypocritical narcissist with mental health issues. Believers, this is your Param Sant Sat Guru being a sexist asshole, an abuser in his own words and otherizing his disciples because he’s too stupid and privileged to see past his own nose. This toxic Guru-mess is unfathomably horrific.

Hi jesse
How many exers you know now ?
I am Really Curious
777

Interesting book by Sheena. Interesting how we go to a guru with the stated intention of letting go of lust, anger, greed, attachment and vanity.
And then leave in disgust when the guru did not assist us in clinging to wealth and good reputation.

We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.

“We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.”
….The mysterious ways of these True Living Masters are beyond the comprehension of human mind.

@ 287 whatever’s left …
If a sexist remark is a spiritual process, please explain how. ( ? ) Sheena most likely confided in Gurinder, spoke of her disappointments with the men in her life … sex would be just a small part of the larger landscape of emotions. As a RSSB’er, she would look to the Guru for a karmic answer, and solace. It’s plain creepy that the Guru would use a confidential confession to demean her publicly. 287, you sound like a Beas sympathiser, who can’t differentiate between a spiritual philosophy and out-and-out abuse. Save us the mansplaining, please.

Bombay Blonde:
Looks like my comment got deleted so I will post it on the open thread. Perhaps most of my comments will go there from now on as they seem to be out of bounds.

“We go to someone saying we want our ego murdered, then when they proceed with the process we run screaming from the room, calling them a monster.
Posted by: 287daysleft ”
Do you use hard drugs? This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

@ Brian – why did you delete my post on the “atme# movement????

@ Brian – the offer of you spending time with me In London still stands – I will show you why women flock to rich men!!! And why they empower rich power!!!
I would open your eyes in the ways of the world you could not fathom.
And yes poor men do sexually harass women – that is why fights break out on weekend nights at nightclubs!!! It’s not just rich men who do the harassing!!!!!

@ Brian – and don’t worry I would protect you like you can’t imagine in London. That is my role to protect, serve and safeguard – without too much detail 😀

Arjuna … dude, some of us ( women ) are independently wealthy. Well, I for one am afraid of being freeloaded off … so, the flocking is on both sides regardless of gender, it’s all about the GBP’s.

@ Bombay blonde – couldn’t agree more 😀

@ Bombay blonde – please don’t call me “dude” Princess – I am not a Yank (American).
Thanks

@ 287 … it’s what devotees within RSSB look for, especially the women who come to the path after bad relationships … these are women who have been hurt, mistreated, abused … lost ladies looking for some balm for their aching hearts and they find that in the comfort of a Perfect Living Master. I personally know more than ten women who have had private audiences with GSD just to confide in him … to tell him the things they cannot tell their closest ones. This is really how close some followers feel to Gurinder, it’s a fact.

@ Arjuna. I was just listening to the Charlie’s Angels soundtrack mate … lol …

Arjuna, I recall that your comment cast doubt on Sheena’s stories about sexual harassment at the Dera. As I’ve said repeatedly, I have great respect for women who have the courage to speak out about what men have done to them, especially rich and powerful men like the guru Gurinder Singh.
I want this blog to be a place where people feel comfortable sharing their experiences, especially disturbing ones involving a religious organization. Your comment, if I remember correctly, mentioned a woman active in the MeToo movement who was accused of abusing an under-age male.
I don’t want any comments on my blog to come across as attacking the credibility of women like Sheena and Sarah who speak about things they’ve seen the guru do. I’m fine with some attacks on credibility, including my own, but not attacks on women who speak out. Fairly frequently I hear from women who have a disturbing story to tell about a religious leader, but they’re afraid of the consequences if they speak out publicly.
I want this blog to feel like a safe place for them. Your comment struck me as unduly attacking. I realize this is what men do all the time, doubt women who speak up about sexual harassment, but that strikes me as wrong. Strong men aren’t afraid of strong women. I’m married to one, and I consider myself a strong man, so I know what I’m talking about.
I urge you to reconsider your impulse to immediately doubt women like Sheena who tell a story about sexual harassment. Instead of doubting, the best thing is to believe them, unless convincing evidence comes out otherwise. Why? Because almost always women have few reasons to speak out, and many reasons to stay silent, so it takes courage to speak out.

@ Brian – support Asia Agento too. If that is the case!
You are not being fair and truth be told Sheenas is a crock and bull story! Deal with that! Your hatred of Gurinder is driving you mad!
You clearly have lead a sheltered life and not many women have played you. Perhaps the irony will be that it will be a woman who brings you down. Take care

@ Brian – answer this question and don’t be a coward and delete this.
Why do some woman flock to the rock and powerful???? And vice versa to a lesser degree.

@ ps Sarah was blogging about a new photo of his on the web. I investigated her statement and it was an old one which appeared to be a photo shopped one! Fake news MAGA!
Lecture her too pal!

@ Bombay blonde – I’m not your mate.
My mates are the ones who serve my country with me! Don’t call me that!!!!

Arjuna, you’re sounding like an angry scared man. I have more courage than you do. I’m not afraid of women who speak their truth. And don’t tell me how to live my life. I’m happy with my life. It isn’t perfect, but whose life is?
By the way, I haven’t communicated with Sheena directly, but I’ve heard from people who do. Through them I’ve been told that Sheena appreciates my fierce defense of her. This is what men should do — stand up for women who speak out against abuse by rich and powerful men.
I hope one day you will become less angry about women, and listen to them more. Yes, not all women tell the truth, but most do. More, I’d say, than men typically do.
Also, I noted your comments about “protecting me.” Thanks but no thanks. I’ve got a black belt in a semi-mixed martial arts style of karate, and I continue to take Tai Chi classes with an emphasis on martial applications. What I’ve learned over 25 years of so of martial arts training is that guys who talk a lot about how tough they are, usually aren’t as tough as they think they are.
I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m just saying what I’m saying.

….quote Brian
Thanks but no thanks. I’ve got a black belt in a semi-mixed martial arts style of karate, and I continue to take Tai Chi classes with an emphasis on martial applications
……again Brian
Man who talk a lot about how tough they are, usually aren’t as tough as they think they are.

Brian why did yiu delete Sheena is a punkrocker.
It was support for her cause she is a rebel like a punkrocker.
It was a vote for her cause she is Brave.

Brian – I’m not scared at all. I serve on the forces and have carried woman and men to safety while the under the risk of Gun fire and me stepping on land based explosives.
That did make me laugh- fair play!
But you are right in that tough men can be weak with respect to lost childhoods and I’m glad you did not aim that at me 😀
I had a lovely wife who served and died on action – she was worthy as a person and I was scared that would happen one day and it did.
I started dating and met loads of woman – let me tell you that I don’t hate them or fair them but I know that a few can make lies up. I’m stressing the point that both man and women can be evil. Have you googled Asia Agenta – the atme movement had to be let down by a woman!
I do martial arts and Krav Maga – to keep me in shape – I know men are weak but not the ones In my team – they would have you for breakfast along with their beer 😀
And yes you did mean that at me as you said I was “scared” 😀 – I’m not scared of women who speak their mind. You challenging me ????????

@ Brian – I’m kidding with about the challenge I live that kind of stuff but not with you as I respect you.
I just want you to have your facts right about Gurinder and it not to back fire on you! That’s all.
I’d be more angry if he was not what he was – my parents died of cancer and I used to pray to him so did they to the bitter end! You see why I would lose hope In humanity if it all comes out.
Please understand that- my point for a change.

Marko, I never said I’m tough. I said I have a karate black belt, 25 years of martial arts experience, and continue to take Tai Chi classes where martial applications are shown. These are facts. Facts are good.

Brian guys never say they are tough they say i have a black belt and i train ma for 25 years.

From the book:
Sheena’s inner experience (abbreviated here):

I had a vision, an inner experience.
I found my body unable to move. A gigantic wave came in a warm embrace and cradled me. I was engulfed with a resplendent light, filling my entire being with serenity and elation, overwhelming me with a divine presence.
A voice tenderly said “now its time to turn your attention inwards to me , any other form will be an obstruction for your journey.”
A man in white, golden halo on his head, held my hand and led me to a cave filled with bright light.
He removed his hand slowly and said, “you are delivered home as promised”
The supreme power takes the reins in His hands when we give up, surrender and submit to him.
My personal experiences shattered the illusions I had of a living guru.
Eventually I gained more than I lost. I am eternally grateful to god.

the book describes it in far more detail.
This is what most of the satsangis are seeking. Their own confirmation.
To them it confirms they have found the truth.

Arjuna … it’s was a joke, and I take it back because I didn’t read all your comments. You have a deplorable attitude towards women. I thought that the “ women flocking to rich men ” remark was a one off, but it isn’t. My bad.

Arjuna … your overtly patriarchal tone is rather sickening and this is no place to peddle your military might. Calling Sheena’s story “ cock and bull ” makes you sound like a rowdy bully, the kind who has beer brawls in pubs over a gherkin. You are pretty clueless about RS-Mat and how the philosophy serves as an anchor to some women, you haven’t witnessed it and are in no position to comment about stuff you have no idea about.

@ bombay blonde – morning abit about me.
I have stopped pub brawls.
I have protected women in my younger years from men’s hands going everywhere and usually got punched (not that it registers as I have a chin of granite my dear lady) or attacked by weapons.
When I am off your I help in volunteering- ie soup kitchens. Serving etc.
I run for charities in marathons – particularly for Cancer charities as my parents died of it and I run for kids charities – who organise a better life for those unfortunate children who need homes to go to.
I am from a family where the great parents were Initiated by the Great Master and went to satsang until 2001- I joined the forces (and changed). So I pretty much am clueless.
Do me a favour honey – don’t join any government agency as a “profiler” as your observations will get many great men and women hurt and worse.
Spot on in your analysis but I wish you all the best. People think of me as a gentle gaint and the way I write doesn’t always reflect that.
Have a fab weekend😀

Above Sheena describes her experience and many people (not just RSSB followers( have such experiences. They are very convincing to the disciple or person because its what they were seeking.
Neale Donald Walsh wrote three books called conversations with God.
He was unhappy and frustrated and wrote a letter to God. Then his hand started writing automatically, and it was the reply to his questions.
When a person really seeks something, something happens.
Like all experiences, its in the mind.
Many christians will see a christ like figure.
All such experiences feed the “I” as they make the “I” feel better.
The “I” is saved. It feels better as it has been taken “home”
It feels much better than “nothingness”

from the book:

RG was curious “So whats your take on this mystical journey you walked on for 25 years?”
“I can only speak of my own experience” says Sheena,
“There is and can be only one ‘real’,that is God, the higher power which is unseen but experienced.
The only sustaining power for a guru is bhakti, meditation, not family lineage, only meditation.”

Sheena previously looked upon her guru as “all knowing” and was disappointed when that belief was shattered.
She is not alone, many disciples believe the guru knows all.

Arjuna … I have a zero tolerance policy against men who insult women and your “ cock and bull ” remark did just that. So, while you may want to think of yourself as a gentle-giant, that wasn’t very gentle. If there’s any truth to the variety and extent of your self professed good ( I’m wishing to believe you ) … then why wouldn’t you support Sheena ?

Osho Robbin … + 1, I couldn’t agree more. Glad that you, like me, have spoken to Gurinder like he’s one of us … I’m sure that nothing peeves him more than someone not being subservient and meek in his presence.

@ Bombay blonde – I am big man and will apologise for the cock and bull remark – upon reflection it was not wise nor fair.
Can we now continue in a civil manner ?

@ Bombay blonde – and yes I really do all those activities I stated. Shall I tell you why? Not because I am a do gooder.
More so to escape my own demons – caused by lack of live during childhood, moving from home to home as a child and seeing my parents die young and spending Christmases alone but sometimes with others.
I said I apologise as I love the way you write and you have been so civil in your response – so there you go. I hope Sheena is write and at the moment I am coming around to the fact that rssb is a con. But please appreciate years of childhood conditioning on rssb is even hard for men like me and many others. It take time – but we will see what happens and I hate fraudsters and men who harass women!!! And I mean that!!!
Just read that you spoke to Gurinder – what is he like – I’m intrigued!

Osho Robbins:
“It feels much better than “nothingness” ”
No it doesn’t. Here is what Ananda said about Nirvanic “nothing” in The Middle Path:
“I abandoned craving for sensual pleasures,….Why is that? Because there is, Māgandiya, a delight apart from sensual pleasures, apart from unwholesome states, which surpasses even divine bliss. Since I take delight in that, I do not envy what is inferior, nor do I delight therein.”
This is not a bland nothing, or a who cares nothing, or an uninteresting nothing. Osho Robbins, you may have your nothings mixed up.

Is Simran Godhwani the author of Sheena’s “Memoirs of a Seeker” ?

@ Arjuna … an apology in an open forum is a rarity these days, I accept it on behalf of Sheena’s ordeal, thank you for the words that display a good measure of self reflection. I applaud you for sharing your story and for sharing that you were indoctrinated when you were a child … I hear you. And, more power to you for standing up to the men who harass women. Even if you come across a bit rough around the edges, you have been doing the right things … good to know, Arjuna. I’m sorry to learn that you lost your parents at a tender age, that must have been very, very hard. Life has been rough at my end as well, but in different ways. We’re all made up of mirroring kaleidoscopes of demons and disappointments … but there’s always something left to love.
Gurinder is just like you and I. He’s nothing special. In fact, he seems more and more ordinarily human every time I meet him. My gut sensed a superficial humility the first time I met him and I’ve consistently noticed that there’s a lack of conviction … just an air of entitlement and some unnecessary humour. There’s nothing even remotely spiritual about the man … the only spirituality that you’ll find is the projection you’ll bring along.

@ La Madrugada … no, she’s not. Simran is a child, all of twenty-two or twenty-three, please do not drag her name unnecessarily into this discussion. Yes, she’s Sunil Godhwani’s daughter. Yes, she was going to marry Gurinder’s younger son ( Gurkirat ) and it fizzled out when Gurinder and the Singh Brothers fell out with Sunil. But please, the girl is innocent and she has nothing to do with the choices that her father made. Let’s stick with the facts that are in the public domain and let’s stop speculating about every name that crops up. Simran has been lucky to escape that match, there’s no reason for her to feel jilted for not marrying into the Guru’s tangled mess … let’s collectively wish her a happy, normal life … hitched or unhitched … but away from these looney RS bins.

Bombay Blonde:
It took me all of 2 minutes to realize who Sheena is. Aren’t we supposed to keep it secret? I mean if she wanted her name or even RSSB mentioned wouldn’t she have said it herself?

There is no need to debate whether or not this author is genuine. The true name of the author will soon come out. The incident where Guru Ji says “A copy of this (accusation about him chasing Sheena) has been sent to every committee member” means every committee member will know who this is. If we don’t hear about the persecution of a particular woman soon, then this article is a fake, if we hear the contrary then we at least know who the author is and can do some fact checking. The odd thing is that the author would have known this and decided to use a pseudonym anyway.

@ 287 … Sheena’s identity isn’t as important as her story is. How does it even matter who she is, or isn’t ? Her courage to come forward should be applauded by everyone who understands the RS theology – basically, here is a lady telling you that your God In Human Form is a whack job, that she pulled herself together and left him and never looked back. If you’re wondering whether I’m Sheena … I’m not, but I stand in defence of her because I sense sincerity in her articulation and it’s a groundbreaking accomplishment for an ex-Sat to put her story out the way she has. The book is a great read for those on the fence with the RS philosophy – it sweeps all those tired, outdated perspectives and sheds fresh light on the happenings of the current Guru-dom. Some RSSB sympathisers are calling Sheena an attention seeking victim, but followers are in general defensive and just because they believe that their Param Sant hasn’t harassed someone it doesn’t mean he hasn’t. Let me remind you that Gurinder’s unprofessional behaviour would attract lawsuits if it wasn’t for him sitting turbaned and pretty on his spiritual high horse.
Gurinder’s public image is struggling as the revelations exposing his greed and shady financial dealings keep emerging. At this point, the faithful need to keep being reminded of the fact that he did some serious corporate shit after the sale of Ranbaxy. That’s what’s truly important. Sheena’s story is a straightforward narrative, let’s stop reducing her ordeal to speculation around her identity and understand that it is impossible to directly mention RSSB and Gurinder, because that would mean targeting a very powerful cult and its leader with ramifications that could be disastrous.

“Gurinder’s public image is struggling as the revelations exposing his greed and shady financial dealings keep emerging.”
That’s an understatement.

@ Jesse … the believing fucktards think we are an insignificant minority and Gurinder’s approval ratings are through the roof. I don’t think we will take the house and draw up impeachment … 🙂

@ Bombay blonde – thank you for your reply and yes I am a bit rough around the edges – but once you see beyond that you find something else entirely. I suspect it’s an old fence that I have not taken down.
The thing is I don’t get Gurinder. I always thought I would feel a pull towards God in human form. I didn’t.
Why shocks me is that Ranbaxy was sold dodgy meds. Surely as god he would have known that and then why bring Shivinder Singh to the Dera? I have never met Gurinder and spoken to him – otherwise I would be able to profile him better ( that part of our training in the “forces” along with the macho stuff lol).
And also why on earth did he get involved in all these companies – when he said in the U.K. “if you want to destroy someone’s house – give them loads of money”
And finally where the heck is the real God – why has he got involved I stopping all this?
Loads of questions and doubts – did you speak to Gurinder ever? If I may ask.
Regards
Arjuna

Bombay Blonde :
It never occurred to me you might be Sheena. I know who she is. Any healthy male that spent time at Dera when she was there noticed her. She was the hottest thing in the world, royal bearing like a queen in the nicest possible way. I thought you might know her though with the bombay in your name. That’s why I asked if you think she is fine with our little message boards using her actual name.

I guess Brian can take this down if it turns out she wants to remain anonymous. I think Sabina’s work on the book Wake up call, and concepts and illusions, together with this latest one has done more for demolishing the old sant mat mythology than almost anyone. Excellent stuff.
https://in.linkedin.com/in/sabina-oberoi-68280411

ARJUNA wrote
” Why shocks me is that Ranbaxy was sold dodgy meds. “”
I understood that this is based only
on an unfair indian judgement
injected by compatitors and
worse : the original Patent Holders ( very big pharmas )
like
HYDERGINE 4,5 MGR , SO MUCH CHEAPER
hyper pissed-off to be blown from the Indian and african Market
When somebody still possesse a package of 30 Hydergine
( I have still 2 )
I will pay 10 times what u hv ever paid
for this fantastic EX- product + FEDEX costs to me.
Indians , . . . please ask around in your local drugstore
and make some money

Those willing to do some search in your land
The other manufacturing names areHydergine, Hydergina, Gerimal, Niloric, Redizork, Alkergot, Cicanol, Redergin, Hydrine (Thailand)
I will pay You by PAYPAL before you buy
please help
77

@ARJUNA
For those with brain injuries inflicted during battle, is was proved
that brain cells restore 50 times faster by applying hydergine
You might be able to help some comrades
7

777:
Do you need a prescription for this? Is it legal to just send it to usa? If you know of a german manufacturer tell me… I will plan on looking for this when I go to the city probably Tuesday. All the presciption drugs here are a tiny fraction of what they cost in usa.

@287daysleft
A Delhi friend tried already in India but we never know
Perhaps the Singh Brothers have somewhere some stock yet
that would be fantastic
Perhaps the best chance is in Thailand under the name : HYDRINE
(Very nice Satsang Ghar there , perhaps here are Thailandese readers )
I started taking this 50 years ago when it was prescribed
to my Father with slight Parkinson vibrations and it helped
Then – because I resemble Him very
I thought : Let’s take it too and I auto-applied it 3 monthes p/year
My fingers are still super stable
As I said , I have still 2 pakages with 30
Now I take one every 3 days – so it will be sufficient
for almost half a year
The only other pill I take is 100 Mgr DHEA p/day
since 30 years against all minus 10% doctors advise.
I think THAT is responsable for my still PSA less than one
Thank you for your nice offer
my email is 7.77@mail.com
7

@ 287 … apologies, I didn’t get your drift the first time around … 🙂 … I’m just overworked. Yes, I know Sheena, I’ve met her a few times. I don’t know her too well, but she seemed like a good lady with her heart in the right place. Yes, she’s savvy, attractive and charming too … and yes, her book is a wake up call.
@ Arjuna : I’ve spoken with Gurinder several times. He’s flippant and contradicts himself all the time. He also likes to think that he’s very funny … and that’s because his crony circle approvingly laughs at his dumb jokes and jibes. We create these Godmen … by themselves they’re just puny, powerless beings.

Blondy said
“”” We create these Godmen … “”””
NO, . . . Charan created HIM
A Saint can appoint anybody to carry that Power
You might be unable to judge from a few visits
Read please what I wrote about HIS RADIANT LIGHT !!
In other posts earlier you said he was like-able when not on the gaddi
You changed idea in one week
?
777

@ 777 please don’t talk about stuff you have no idea about !!! Brian injuries! I have never offended you so don’t talk about the forces in that way!
I merely asked you if you have seen the Usual Suspects!!’
And stop making a big thing about Ranbaxy and big Pharma – I know Big Pharma does a lot of wrong things particularly doctors giving out anti depressants to people who may need other help such as avoiding the use of this blog and speaking to some seriously deluded people. In the U.K. 77 people are on these doctor prescribed drugs and the business is worth 7 billion dollars globally.
The point was simple – should Ranbaxy have done that bearing in mind they people who were running it – had a direct line or radio transmitter to God! Please don’t answer!
I am seriously not in the mood for BULLSHIT today.
Have a good evening !

@ Bombay Blonde _ you answers clears a lot of demons from my head – thank you.
On a lighter note – see we are getting along which is nice – I can control my rough edges when I need to!
And I have a Bone to pick with you !!!! Why didn’t you mention you knew Sheena – that would have prevented a lot of misguided comments on my part!
As long as she is happy now – that’s all that counts

@ 777 … that’s ridiculous. Do repost the part where I’ve said that Gurinder was likeable, gaddi or no gaddi or whatever else he squats on. Yes, I’ve always been softer on Charan, simply because he never came across materially vicious.

@ 777 … at first, I thought your writings were some incomprehensible Haiku, but I’m now convinced that you speak a peculiar dialect of some intergalactic gibberish that no one understands. I’m given to believe that you’re deep into your Science Of The Soul mystery solving practice. May I kindly request that you take your outlandish posts to the moon and let us mortals on Earth discuss things with a touch of reason and logic. Please.
( … and shove that sexist crap up you a** … )

Bombay Blonde,
777 is an old guy and English is not his first language. I think he is in his 80’s and Brian allows his posts through and its his blog and he can decide when to block someone. We regular readers/posters know that 777’s comments are difficult to decipher but then we are probably used to him by now and he is not causing anyone any harm.
Your rude and offensive comments are quite over the top especially this latest one. I haven’t seen 777 saying anything sexist and I think he means well. So, newcomer, perhaps you can try to be a bit more moderate in your approach.
BTW, I don’t think you are blonde and I also query whether you are a female. If you are, you are some tough kind of female, not the elegant kind of Indian women I have known.

@ Arjuna … it’s not about knowing Sheena or not knowing Sheena. I’d stand in defence of any woman who’d come out with her story, if it’s credible. Women being mistreated by men in power is a societal plague across the globe and I’m glad that women are finally speaking up. What makes Sheena’s story such an eye-opener is that this kind of psychological abuse was unheard of from the Beas Dera, Gurinder’s misdemeanour is inexcusable on all fronts. Locking him up ( and throwing away the keys ) is far more necessary than jailing the Singh Brothers. I must add that I’ve met some pretty phenomenal men, one doesn’t have to be anti-men to be pro-women.

Blonde Bomb person, can you please describe what you mean by “Gurinder’s misdemeanour is inexcusable on all fronts”. What is he guilty of, may I ask?

Jen, you said “I also query whether you are a female. If you are, you are some tough kind of female, not the elegant kind of Indian women I have known. ”
Spend some time outside of the rich tourist parts of India or the Dera and this thought will never come to your mind again lol. I’ve met Punjabi women who would rip your eyes out for looking at them the wrong way.
The old T.V. stereotype of the gentle Indian woman who knows all the traditional arts is true for a segment of the population, but it’s certainly not a good generalization. It’s mostly not even on TV anymore outside of Doordarshan.
I’m married to an Indian woman and I’ve seen the family fights. Trust me, there’s a lot about the culture you obviously aren’t privy to if you can’t imagine that Bombay Blonde is a chick.
I find a lot of Indian women to be quite tough and crass often times, to be honest. When I think of all the Gujarati hawkers in Delhi, the most aggressive ones I met were women. Paan chewing, foul mouthed, abusive and aggressive women.
Now that I think of it, I think I’ve only seen women get into physical altercations in India.

Jesse, I was born in South Africa and my husband and I were friendly with the Indian satsangis so this is what I have experienced, very polite and gracious people.
Maybe you are right. I am simply surprised by the venomous comments this person is making.

None of Bombay Blonde’s comments strike me as even remotely “venomous” personally, but maybe I have a way higher threshold for internet banter. Everything on this blog is tame to me and it’s hard not to get into chan mode and go off on people here.
South Africa though. If you’re of European descent, I pray that you’ve escaped. I’ve been trying to warn people about that place for years, and the disgusting lying media in America is still outright denying anything is happening, and refusing to acknowledge all the videos of various politicians dancing and singing “kill the boer.”
Hopefully Trump pulls out of Middle East altogether to transfer assets and start a war with the ANC and all their even worse competition. They need to be neutralized before their killings increase.

@ Jen … I find women who turn the other cheek more problematic than men who do. Should I be excusing 777 for calling me ” blondy ” just because he’s eighty ? Rudeness is rudeness, regardless of age. Let me go so far as to say that at eighty, 777 should be wiser than that. Regarding the gibberish, it is gibberish. But when 777 wants to write properly, he does … but then he’ll suggest that ” Big Pharma ” is responsible for the Ranbaxy mess which is as crazy as his other outings. I have no sympathy for a Beas apologist so how should we resolve this ?
One scores by merit of argument, this is an open forum and not a members-only so old or new is not a criteria. BTW, Brian has already requested 777 to post on the Open Thread, but he hasn’t told me to be ” moderate in my approach ” so let him take a call on that because I think I’m well adhering to the comment policy.
I have no residual romantic yearnings about the colour of my hair, would you be checking on the shade if I had called myself a Bombay Brunette or a Maharashtrian Mamba ? Why is it so important ? We’re in 2018 and your stereotype of an ” elegant Indian woman ” is just that, a stereotype, and that’s exactly what I like to run through my shredder. I’ll take your opinion of me as a compliment, thank you … 🙂

@ Jesse … +1, those were some excellent points on Indian women. India is a land of such colourful diversity that the ethnic fabric is far from singular and so are the societal structures. In every nook and corner of the country the cultural diaspora shifts, blends and bends. It’s a composite culture of so many divided and undivided sub-cultures that it’s impossible to pin the entire subcontinent down to one identity.
I think you were referring to the Gujarati hawkers in Mumbai, I don’t see them in Delhi. ( ? ) It’s a great idea to get some vernacular ( Punjabi ) news on the happenings in Punjab. There are some interesting interviews on the land grabbing incidents at Beas and this is important stuff as these don’t make it to the mainstream English channels.

Hi Jesse,
“If you’re of European descent, I pray that you’ve escaped.”
Yes, I am of British descent and thank goodness escaped many years ago and now living in Australia. I’ve just been watching a young South African fella (Willem Petzer) talking about the South African farm murders on youtube. Very disturbing. Even Donald Trump is speaking out about South Africa, whereas Obama couldn’t care less! Interesting how Russia has offered sanctuary for 15,000 white farmers.
Bombay Blonde,
I’m surprised that you found 777 calling you “blondy” offensive, lol. This must be something to do with the age gap because when I was young I was called blondy and it was no big deal.
Anyway, its a crazy world nowadays… Peace to you both 🙂

@ Jen … we’re just spinning in different orbits. I guess you find my descriptives hard to handle but I can’t do much to help you feel better.

I’d like to say a couple of things.
1st) A vegan diet is far more environmental friendly. You need to much water, plants and what not for animal agriculture. Animal agriculture causes too much pollution and too much cruelty.
Here, take this as one of the sources:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
Now, I’d like to talk about Laws in India and how feminists have turned the system against men.
“☰
Blog
MRA attack: You won’t believe what’s on the Wikipedia page on Gender Discrimination in India
“Indian laws highly favour women”
TNM Staff
Friday, April 15, 2016 – 07:45
There are many reasons why the internet is fun, and one of them is it throws up such amusing things every now and then, and you wouldn’t want to miss them for other world.
We were researching for a piece on gender discrimination in India and clicked on the Wikipedia page, which was the very first link.
Here is what the section of the page reads. Feminists with high-BP issues, we advise you to close this window and remain healthy. The section is titled, ahem, ‘Discrimination towards men’. (emphasis added)
Discrimination towards men
Although socially women have been at a disadvantage, Indian laws highly favour women. If a husband commits adultery he will be jailed, but a woman cannot be jailed for adultery and neither will she be punished by the courts. There is no recognition of sexual molestation of men and rarely the police stations lodge an First Information Report(FIR); men are considered the culprit by default even if it was the woman that committed sexual abuse against men.[citation needed] Women can jail husband’s family for dowry related cases by just filing an FIR. The law IPC 498A demands that the husband’s family be considered guilty by default, unless proven otherwise, in other words it implements the doctrine of ‘guilty unless proven innocent’ defying the universally practised doctrine of ‘innocent until proven guilty’. According to one source, this provision is much abused as only four percent of the cases go to the court and the final conviction rate is as low as two percent.[12][verification needed]
Judiciary discrimination
There are many laws including 498a, false rape laws etc., favoring women to greater extent. If a man files a rape complaint, it’s not considered as rape, since rape clearly is for men and not for women. If a woman rapes man then court cant punish her.
498A
Out of 100 cases filed under this section in India, only 4% is the conviction rate. Parliament is still holding its firm stance on this law. This is being more misused than being used in proper way. According to the National Crime Records Bureau statistics, nearly 200,000 people, including 47,951 women, were arrested in regard to dowry offences in 2012, but only 15% of the accused were convicted. Arrest in Dowry offences in 2012 is 9.4% more than in 2011 and it is continuously increasing. [14][13]”
Now, I’d like to point out something really important:
When advice related to marriage is taken, it’s taken from someone who has had successful and long lasting relationships.
I’m sure that Gurinder said something similar.
If this was about guys, between guys and Gurinder said so, it wouldn’t be an issue at all. Even if the master was a female.
The issues about the Sevadar sound exaggerated. None of them would’ve had any issues with what was mentioned, I suppose.
I guess that’ll be all.

Sorry, there was an error while copying. I should’ve seen the preview or proofread. I apologize.

@ Jen … the trouble is that people habitually excuse so much that we end up in societies where there are no lines drawn. I don’t personally care what 777 calls me … but I just wanted to point out the prevalent conditioning. I don’t think I can walk into Starbucks and call a light-haired stranger ” blondy ” … it’s inappropriate, times have changed. It’s the small stuff and the small stuff becomes the big stuff. You can’t get away with a friendly pat on a woman’s a** now, that era is behind us. I knew that the ( blog ) name Bombay Blonde would invite ” blondy ” and other jibes on the colour of my hair, intelligence, ethnicity …
Bombay Blonde is a beer and Gurinder is guilty of his behaviour with Sheena.

I think anyone who has spent much time at Dera knows who Sheena. Their names even assonate. Dera does turn a blind eye to child abuse, which makes me think it would do the same for sexual abuse.
I was walking by the laundry shop many years ago when I saw the owner very violently slap the back of his hand across the face of a child who was working with him. I would gauge the child to be 11-12 years old. He did this right out in the open, making me think he had never been reprimanded. The child did no cry, he just took it as if he were used to it. I was shocked and reported it to Mr. Desai at the guest house, whose eyes immediately flashed in anger as he told me to mind my own damn business. He was as high up the chain of command that I could go so I had to leave that kid there with this perpetrator. I still feel bad about it. I thought management was going to be concerned for the child given RSSB teachings.
I think all of this should be included in the next edition of “Heaven on Earth”.
There is one fact that you won’t see anywhere: Jagat Singh’s son committed suicide. He is referred to as “Brother Claire” in Treasure Beyond Measure. I also heard a weird story about Jagat Singh’s wife jumping off a building either in an attempt to kill herself or because she was nuts but I don’t have any evidence of this. Given how Jagat Singh is described in RS literature you can imagine what kind of father and husband he was. Ever notice how absolutely nothing is ever mentioned about his family?

It’s 81 generation gap , Not mentioned to offend
There is/was this fine UK singer : “Blondy”
I liked her very much
But you are in Bombay
I should have been more thoughtfull but feel still as a appearence_compliment
77

Bombay Blonde you say: “… call a light-haired stranger ” blondy ” … it’s inappropriate, times have changed.”
Also, you say: “I knew that the ( blog ) name Bombay Blonde would invite ” blondy ” and other jibes on the colour of my hair, intelligence, ethnicity …”
Okay, so you knew that your blog name could attract jibes etc. Does this mean you were looking for some kind of challenge or conflict? You obviously are intelligent but also sensitive about your ethnicity. So is this just a game you play?
Commenting on a blog in today’s world is not easy. People are suspicious and rightly so because we have no idea who we are talking to, what this person’s motive is. So we try to figure out, is this a male or female, is this a devout satsangi or ex-satsangi or someone pretending to be either.
Yes, times have changed, very much so and I’m just trying to understand you. Most people on this blog are very nice and would welcome someone as smart as you are, so you can drop your defences and just enjoy being here on this (for some of us – recovering) ex-satsangi site 🙂

before I had/have this Darshan Inside of so many Masters
I didn’t like Jagat very much
Much to severe, more catholic than the pope , I thought
and didn’t like these little books with his advises
Then How amazed I was when HE is part of this great line of Masters
inside myself , all with their own charactere and even HE with so much humor
It’s a kind of String going back to Jesus ( yes) and Buddha
and so many guys and girls I cannot define
I do not know who is the first, ONE with the Source already
so that He/She can put Souls in His/Her pocket to transport
them through the great Giant Sunna Desert with nothing in it
between the ( let’s still use) 3rd and 4th region
I know nothing about Jagats story and family
but now
it is brought up
something like Gurinder’s cousins karma
just my 2cts
777
PS
such a great Path is this
see my comments

@ Jen – forgot to say to you! Take care all the very best in life.
Remember not all of us Indians are not bad as all white people ain’t good. And I’ve seen a lot of action in my life -I am now reaching a livel where I think all of humanity is lost – whether you are white, brown, pink or green. But there are good souls out there and some I carried to safety whilst all hell was breaking around me- that’s my achievement in this life.
Be good I’ve seen enough on here and need to get off.
All the very best

Hi Arjuna,
Hope you can come back soon !!

sheena writes

My personal experiences shattered the illusions I had of a living Guru or else I would have been trapped in the web forever.
The ashram is entangled in its own trappings – of power, wealth, hypocrisy, and pseud-ism. Sewadars are not guru loving people but guru-fearing people.

All the followers DO remain trapped forever in the web, because they depend on it and believe the master has great powers and is infallible, despite what he himself says.
They ignore his own statements and put him on a pedestal. With Sheena, the pedestal shattered for the final time when he said she slept around. His statement shocked her but in reality he did her the greatest favour because that is what enabled her to leave.
And the leaving was essential for her to continue her spiritual progress as she states in her book. Only after leaving did she find her truth.
On reading her book, she doesn’t seem bitter, just disappointed.
She is on her own journey and part of that was leaving the guru – who in her experience is a hinderance once you go beyond a certain point.
When asked – she makes it clear that this was just her journey and others can make up their own minds and does not want to speak for others. After all, she herself spent the best part of twenty five years with her guru before leaving for good.

another snippet from sheena’s book:

When a mother delivers her baby, the umbilical cord is cut off – it is necessary for the child’s growth. Lao Tzu taught his disciples the method to God-Realization, but they had to leave the monastery after their training because the path to God-realization is walked alone.

She wrote this in her letter to Guruji.
Clearly she was aware that the disciple has to let the master go – and cannot remain a disciple forever,

@ osho –
Bullet point as you have read the point what Gurinder said to her that upset her.
I know about about the sleeping with many men remark – rate is the soul that is pure at the time of marriage these days – that’s why the cauldrons of hell are always working over time lol.

@ Jen – flying out Tuesday last tour .
All the very best and a little story!
Last decade I was badly injured and alone where I was at that particular time. Not giving you people anything too much to walk your brain cells together – however a Sikh gent with a turban dragged me out and gave me water – my eyes were bloodshot and he then just vanished. My team were amazed as both my legs were broken and there no way I could have moved. 😀 it’s all a game and I wasn’t in India ha . No Sikhs or other turbaned men there .

@ Noname … excellent points, thank you for refreshing my memory about what little pissants these RSSB high rankers are. Beas is abnormally patriarchic top down and there must have been several such incidents involving children, I can imagine. I must find out whether they’ve finally shut down the ” Children’s Seva ” …
A ton of folklore surrounds Jagat’s family. It seems like you may be right about his son committing suicide, my texts say the same. There are doubts surrounding his anointment, Baba Sawan’s original will has either gone missing or has never been seen. People think I’m cuckoo when I talk about the history of Beas but what they don’t realise is that the books are not just fairytales, but are also factually incorrect. Interestingly, there is no official mention of Bibi Lajo in the English texts. There are, of course, several accounts of her in other texts and in the chronicles of the older generations of Beas. I’ve always known that Beas fudged a ton of hard facts, especially in their English publications. History is debatable and they fear the thinking believer. They keep the poor, uneducated multitudes busy with promises of a better afterlife and don’t really bother with the vernacular as much. I wish more people could get hold of ” Origins and Growth ” … Gurinder had recalled its circulation and destroyed the stocks after he took over the Gaddi. I personally think that Baba Jagat wasn’t expecting the numbers to swell, but thousands of people took up refuge in Amritsar and its surrounding areas during the migration from ( now ) Pakistan. The ones who stayed on at the Dera were subsequently initiated and that was the first mass expansion of RSSB. It’s also widely believed that Baba Jagat was a recluse and didn’t quite know how to handle the rapid rise in numbers. I’ve heard that if he had his way, he’d have none of it and that he was brusque and didn’t speak much.
What is noteworthy is the role of the matriarchs in the Sikh patriarchy. Bibi Lajo, Bibi Ralli and a handful of the other Bibis ( old women ) have all played their part in the power games at Beas. It is common knowledge that Nimmie Singh ( mother of the Singh Brothers and daughter of Charan ) has little tolerance for Shabnam Dhillon, Gurinder’s wife. This isn’t in the wake of the recent revelations, they’ve always had an discreet tension between them. My personal take is that Nimmie is a woman of sharp instincts and had read Gurinder right in the beginning. She has been against the financial joyride that the Guru orchestrated. She’s a feisty lady and would’ve been a far better custodian of the family wealth had the boys not succumbed to Gurinder’s trickery and their own greed.

@ Bombay blonde – you have a unique mind – god I wouldn’t want to face you in a chess game 😀
That’s a compliment by the way

@ Arjuna,
Interesting story of how you were helped. At times I need that kind of spiritual and magical feeling in life to keep me going. I’ve had some strange and unusual experiences which I remember fondly. Makes life more interesting than boring humdrum practical existence.

@ Jen – I’m not closing it was Gurinder – could have been anyone. I think the divine came in a form that would be More comfortable with at that time of my life.
Where he touched me on my shoulders when pulling me – there appear to be markings which the doctor said appear to be made inside out. Ie a reverse tattoo. Perhaps it Satan – we do get along as I have been employed in an industry where he has a lot of sway 😈

@Arjuna said
In the U.K. 77 people are on these doctor prescribed drugs and the business is worth 7 billion dollars globally.
======RIGHT
please google
SSRI + school+shootings
and they know it
do it again with DUCKDUCKGO.COM because GOOGLE ie not what it was under Eric Scmidt
This payment of 48 Million $ to this infiltrator proves it all
Bombay “dame
bring your snake stuff elsewhere where they like your taste
BTW : 81
but the Judge will see through
7

@ 777 calm down brother

from Sheena’s book:

Aunty VK was quite ill, guruji visited her. “Is she taking good care of you?” glancing in my direction.
“Guruji – YOU are taking good care of me” she replied like a good disciple.
I promptly made a mental note of that. I had been up all night nursing her and she was happily giving all the credit to GuruJi. She needed serious talking to.
Within a second, Guruji turned to me “What’s that fertile mind of yours thinking?”
I froze. Impossible. Had he just used his divine powers to read my mind? Was that allowed in the guidelines laid out for spiritual Gurus?
.
.
.
“sewa is all consuming, leaving no time for meditation. It’s very upsetting.
and… there IS a bias amongst the paid and unpaid sewadars.
Why doesn’t guruji take a stand and act on it?”
Aunty VK smiled “Don’t worry, Sheena, Everything will happen at the right time, and you will develop better understanding.”
“Aunty, I love your optimism, but it is mis-placed”
She patted my head, “Trust me. Just continue to do GuruJi’s sewa, without questioning anything.”
“But I don’t quite get this…”
“Sheena, you are not here to get. you are here to let go. When you change your attitude, your true learning will start. Open your heart and mind, disentangle yourself from your pre-conceived notions. Stop resisting and be accepting.”
I was getting a clearer insight into the teachings. I attained clarity of thought, better focus, and deeper realization.
GuruJi strengthened me further by asking me to give discourses. I had to read a vast amount of material.

This is the same journey most of the disciples are on. Struggling with the mind. Unable to let go.
Sheena wanted desperately to let go – but also could not ignore what she saw happening in front of her. In particular the ‘flaws’ in her GuruJi.
later she was going to sell her apartment – but guruji advised her not to sell. The property market plummeted, then when it hit rock bottom, he told her to sell. He then advised her to put the money into the stock market, which crashed, leaving her penniless.
“Blind belief left me in a state of utter disbelief” says Sheena.
“Having no funds to sustain myself in the ashram – I left broken-hearted. ”

I arrived in Bombay penniless, homeless and jobless.
My old gang was furious. Ally was the most vocal
“Your GuruJi let you go because you were broke? When he was responsible for what happened?”
“After then years of voluntary work, wasting your youth at the back of beyond, he washes his hands of you? Is this his sense of responsibility?”
“I can’t figure this out”
“There’s nothing to figure out Sheena. Wake up to reality. This is the real world, not the stupid ashram. Why did he give you that dumb advice? and why did you listen to him? See where it’s landed you?”
“Ally, perhaps it was destiny, you know, my karma…”
She threw a magazine at me, “Have you been brainwashed? Gee, what a twit. Is this the garbage they feed you there? Shit about Destiny and Karma?”
“Do you still believe in GuruJi?” Mona asked
“Of course I still believe in GuruJi. I can’t blame him. Maybe I was meant to learn something from all this…”
“Bullshit”, exclaimed Ally, “What’s got into you? Why can’t you see sense? Pull yourself together, Sheena. Your head is stuck in the sand with this insane karma stuff.”
Life without Guruji was indescribably painful, like losing a loved one.

Isn’t this the same struggle that all the disciples go through?
The struggle between trying to figure it out and trust / surrender?
People are at various stages on their own path of struggle.
The above was after ten years of seva. Later she goes back for more….

once a person is on a spiritual path – it is like being in love
logic no longer works. Just like people in love – the person seeks something that will transform their life.
Disciples look up to their guru like he is the father that is going to fix everything.
but it never happens.
Like Sheena, many disciples will have some mystical experiences from time to time
and that keeps them going – confirms they are on the right path.
but this is all part of the endless seeking, never arriving…. delusion.
thinking it will happen soon…. not even knowing what they are expecting to happen.
Soon it becomes a mindless journey to god knows where (and he’s not telling….)
Some eventually convince themselves they have arrived. But where?
can’t really say, as it’s not a ‘place’ – it is subjective.

@ Jen … I have nothing to be defensive about. I came up with ” Bombay Blonde ” at a whim, after buying half a case of my namesake beer on an evening I was emailing Brian. My line of work involves dealing with people from different nationalities and that ( I guess ) has shaped my worldview. I am a vociferous voice for the rights of women and I’m a hundred percent in support of the #MeToo and #TimesUp movements. I’ve seen too much patriarchal nonsense in my own life that I have actively taken steps to call out and cull off … and nothing has ever made me feel as empowered as standing up for myself and others. Currently, we have an American intern in the office and you have no idea how much unmindful racism she faces in India. I thought I’d reverse it and see what happens …
What I’ve observed is that people are not insensitive, they’re often just unmindful and unaware of how they choose to respond because their conditioning is set in an algorithm of stereotypes. Last month, I was out buying a coffee with our intern, when I overheard someone whisper … ” she’s blonde but she’s fat ” … in other words, she was expected to fit the ideal notion of blonde, thin and blue-eyed. Basically, I have no place for stereotyping in my world. There’s far too much heterogeneous beauty that surrounds us all and it’s important to break the barriers.
I’m the least sensitive about my ethnicity, I was only making a point regarding stereotypes. Call me what you like as long as there are no stereotypes involved. That said, I suspect the ” generational gap ” between us … ( if you insist, though I think that the concept of a generational gap in this particular context is a tad misplaced ) … coupled with the fact that I am, possibly, coming from better confrontational experience given the nature of my offline work, is a bit much for you. Apologies, but I have no intent to mislead or confuse but I’m always up for a challenge.
I wanted to observe reactions to ” Bombay Blonde ” but I now wish I’d gone with ” Porn Star ” instead … 🙂

Pornstar ( you asked 🙂 ) wrote
“””” I wish more people could get hold of ” Origins and Growth ” … “””
I think I have that
It’s a kind of Balance sheet about
moneys coming in and out
and explications
I ‘bought’ or got it in Beas but never really read it
At the time I thought
“Héé , . . other religions don’t give such bookkeeping out
But why should it has been suppressed
BTW
My wife was raped and killed during these unfortunate happenings
she was burned
and all that time Sawan gave his inner Darshan
She felt nothing
Only HIS Love
Gurinder is right
Let’s go IN, . . if not for the Divine Love
there is a lot info available about your past lives
and future lives
777

@ 777 … Blondie, the group, that’s right ! Hey, what’s with the ” snake stuff ” … I enjoy studying the histories of not just Beas, but Surat Shabad Yoga. That stuff is far more complex and layered than the current financial coup.

@ Osho Robbins … +1, that’s all there really is to it … that one disappointment that sinks in so deep that it takes years to recover. Brings to mind a poignant scene from Call Me By Your Name … 🙂

but Surat Shabad Yoga
I LIKE THAT
It s not complex
Did You grep that it is about “How to become happy ?
also while living
It’s very simple
777

@ 777 … O&G isn’t about book-keeping, we obviously have different editions. It’s just interesting that GSD wanted to get rid of history. Why ? I’m sorry about your loss, but I find your musings difficult to comprehend … did you lose your wife in Dera, or while you were in Punjab ? I don’t ascribe worldly goodness to the inner dimensions of sound and light. I have absolutely no first-hand experience of the discovery of any higher mystical plane, even after living on a hilltop for three months in solitude and silence with five fellow seekers for ( dinner ) company.

“I think you were referring to the Gujarati hawkers in Mumbai, I don’t see them in Delhi. ”
Bombay Blonde, go to Janpath and you’ll find them.

@ Arjuna … that’s an interesting story, about a saviour saving your life. I’ve heard of such miracles, many of them. But, the only miracle I know and the only Guru I’ve experienced … is the present moment.

@ Jesse … interesting. I was always intrigued by the feisty Maharashtrian and Gujarati hawkers in Mumbai. It would be interesting to compare a tale of two cities in this aspect.

“” I’m sorry about your loss “”
This was in a previous life , 1947 ; the particien
we were brother and sister in that life
She remembers , that is : Charan told her in pre-meditations
these things
even another life where she met Seth Shiv Dayal
when she was married out to somebody near Agra
Bharatpur
Telling in your insight is more or less that you re-live it again
exactly as it was but by His Sweet Help and the Sound you hear
It doesn’t hurt anymore
We had an wallnut orchyard in now Pakistan Punjab
Charan tells her so much more
also about the future of the planet and the Beas Sangat
All what Gurinder seems to do bad . . . it is good
We live actually in France
She is 11 years younger
In my comments I make reguarly 2 mistakes
1)
That most readers are used to and remember what I posted before
2)
Assuming that here are EX-initiated readers
I learned that that is not the case
Many “initiated” by other saddhus, Babas , otrher than RSSB came uttering their grievance
I have now the idea that on the 4 million initiates are only around 10 / 15
disappointed EX-RSSB persons
Happy satsangis are reluctant because of Gurinders suggestions not to involve
MaharaJi Charan Singh , Our Master did , even commanded to involve here
Yes many advises I suggest here can only be understood when U are initiated
In that way not many pearls are wasted
You said “World benifices of Sound and Licht
There are many – How about to be invulnerable , happy like orgasmic (above yr eyes) even
any times if not all the time
I explained many times – I hope your karma let s you read some
or question me
on the 16 Chapter where Brian authorises serious talks
777
sorry – my corrector still nor working

@ 777 … meditation and happiness aren’t related, in my humble opinion. I have a yogic meditative practice that has the same effect like Zen archery, it helps my focus. The five-regions mantra meditation that is exclusive to Beas-Mat is something I tried for a few months, and boy, I tried hard. However, I felt it was making me dull. All of us are wired differently – a certain type of meditation may work for you, but it may not work for me.

@ 777 … alright, I personally know many more ( heretic ) ex-Sats than your estimate. But hey, what’s your core argument anyway ? That the infallible Guru-God is doing some heavy duty karma shedding for his family ? I just don’t buy it 777. All of it just looks terribly wrong when I think of it in real world terms and completely whacky when juxtaposed against ” The Path Of The Masters ” … 🙂

@ Arjuna … I don’t play chess, but I don’t think I’d be very good at it. What I do enjoy is a good drink and a nice cigar by the lake. I’m not an aethiest … somewhere deep within my heart, I think I’m still a seeker. Somewhat.

Yes
Were You really rssb initiated
Because , THAT is the point
Real mrditation = 100% not thinking while fully awake, . . then things change
Like all pubers know >> it happens best out of LOVE
So hearing you , i don’t think that was your case 🙂
All depends of your former lives, . . what happened there
It’s easiers with not to much $$$ haha
You are Young – Don t worry
Just do not hurt other jeevas ( important )
Alcohol = not helpful – wow
777

@ Bombay Blonde – omg you are at exactly where I am right now in that you like a drink A cigar and still are a seeker

All of it just looks terribly wrong when I think of it in real world terms and completely whacky when juxtaposed against ” The Path Of The Masters ” … 🙂

What about juxtaposed with “mud huts” ? Both wacky and humiliating. Schlepping dirt for a loony old Guru can be quite hard work too 😉

“I wanted to observe reactions to ” Bombay Blonde ” but I now wish I’d gone with ” Porn Star ” instead … 🙂 ”
You do make me laugh, gotta have a sense of humour to survive this crazy world! Your story is fascinating to me because my very sheltered life has been so different. Big difference in the women of today compared to the past that I experienced.
Am I allowed to call you “BB” for short? lol
About following a guru, its great that you are now moving away from the delusion that gurus are more powerful than you are. We are all individuated souls on our journey and taking back our personal power is important, at the same time its not the ‘ego’ that I’m talking about.
You say the Beas-Mat meditation was making you dull and yes, I agree, we are all wired differently. I can’t handle sitting still like some kind of robot and prefer to spend my very quiet life being in the moment, being present as an observer which is kind of Zen like. I am grateful that Sant Mat put me on the path of being vegetarian, moral life, no alcohol, drugs, etc. but then of course, to each their own.

Osho:
I think you made a great point. Once on a path sometimes Truth itself gets lost.
The thing of it is, without the path, the guru, the sangat, a lot of people do not have the sustaining power to keep the buddhist precepts and will soon be back using intoxicants, drugs, chasing sense pleasures, stretching ethics and morality.
There are pluses and minuses to a spiritual path.

I’m guessing that each person’s ‘truth’ is a kind of confirmation bias? Some of us seem to be continually searching for truth, always seeking, looking for answers, the mind does not want to be still. Sant Mat is a path and then some of us branch off into other pathways, even imaginary realities, wandering through life forever seeking for something more than this.
I like the “intuitive wisdom” that Zen speaks of…
Zen as a possible antidote to many of the problems of modern society:
“One obvious answer is- through Zen. Not necessarily Zen Buddhism but Zen in its broad sense of a one-pointed aware mind; of a disciplined life of simplicity and naturalness as against a contrived and artificial one; of a life compassionately concerned with our own and the world’s welfare and not self-centered and aggressive. A life, in short, of harmony with the natural order of things and not in constant conflict with it.”
Not an easy path, still a discipline, and still battling against conflicting emotions and ideas… sigh*

JEN WROTE TO BB
‘m surprised that you found 777 calling you “blondy” offensive, lol. This must be something to do with the age gap because when I was young I was called blondy and it was no big deal.”””
YES It was a big compliment
JEN , mail me a Photo, . . .
77

@ 777 … thank you for the compliment, we all agree that Blondie was a music group. Yay !
@ Dungeness … totally ! It’s entirely suppressive, oppressive, regressive and depressive.
@ 287 … that’s a very interesting line of thought, a few of my family members went on a ” rebound ” of sorts after junking their belief system. I’m in love with the Earth ( with a phobia of house lizards ) so I cannot bring myself to consume any sentient being. I’ll have a few drinks on the weekend, I’ll have the occasional cigar … and spend the rest of my time in professional and personal pursuits. I can be gregarious, a tad outspoken but I’ve always been like that, it’s not the result of the shedding. I strongly believe that my curiosity, education and career saved me.

Quote Bombay Blonde : I’m in love with the Earth ( with a phobia of house lizards ) so I cannot bring myself to consume any sentient being
Well, that would seem to indicate that you’re “in love with” sentience, and not necessarily the part of Earth that isn’t sentient! (At least, your dietary choices do not seem necessarily dicated by an all-encompassing Earth-love, only to a [perhaps anthropomorphic, or at least empathic] love for sentience.)
This is no criticism, merely my observation. I’m in the same dietary boat as you.
I sometimes wonder : What would we do, you and I and those others who think this way (people whose stomach turns at the thought of consuming a being with the smallest hint of sentience, without necessarily linking this instinctive abhorrence to any kind of religious mumbo jumbo), if — just suppose — it turned out that plants too had some form of sentience?

Incidentally, having asked you that question about sentience in plants, I was curious, and checked out, just now, some random google links, and it appears there is a great deal of speculation, already, about plants actually possessing some form of sentience.
I only very quickly browsed through these links, just enough to tell me that there are those who speculate about such.
I haven’t actually read these articles in detail, and I’ll go with the assumption that these are no more than speculations (since any actual evidence of this nature would have been announced in blazing headlines, not hidden away in random internet articles).
Still, the question remains : If it is proved, tomorrow, that plants do possess sentience, then what worth our instinctive empathy? Do we starve to death, or do we dismiss our queasiness? If the latter, then why not go the whole hog (yes, pun intended)?
I suppose there’s always a third option : harnessing science to (attempt to) develop alternative food sources, that don’t involve even plants.

@ Appreciative Reader … I’m glad you brought this up. A close friend ( who devours mussels and oysters ) insists that plants secrete a sap and that they feel ” pain ” when they are being plucked … especially root vegetables. He also insists that mussels and oysters feel no ” pain ” … and that there’s a way to pick berries ” painlessly ” …
Oh well well … I’d have to be a full time research scientist and a gatherer of every morsel that goes into my mouth if I would get into such precision of karma reduction … and all of this seems too far fetched for my understanding.
I’m using the word ” sentience ” in its widest connotation, I guess. Would I have a chicken egg if the chicken is not interested in hatching it ? Yes. Would I have a scoop of ( only ) mashed potato from the top of a Shepard’s Pie ? No. Would I go hungry if there’s only meat on offer ? Yes. Do I eat cheese with rennet ? Hmmm. I would prefer a rennet free cheese, I really would. Do I feed my dogs and cats meat ? Yes. They can’t do without it ! Does all this add up to being hypocritical … I’m not quite sure. I don’t like the sight of meat for self consumption but I have no issues with others eating whatever they enjoy. I try to avoid looking at the fish heads though, they freak me out.
Would I go entirely ballistic if someone tried to chop off a tree branch ? Oh, yes, yes, yes … I have a very strange affiliation with trees. It’s like a deep attachment that I’m trying to learn more about.

I commend Sheena on her writing this book. I wish Sheena would show more courage and file a case against GSD. Many Gurus in India have landed in jail after such complaints have been filed and hopefully we can put one more guru behind the bars. Between the money scandal and the sex scandal, the probability of GSD going to prison looks promising.

I am posting this message for others at all posts for those who want to search independently.
Please don’ delete it.
Sir, the screenshots you have posted from Memoirs of the Seeker by Sheena show that, that particular Guru is popularly called Guruji, his meeting centres and the main Dera called Ashrams and a Beauty Salon. All the above things point towards Dera Sacha Sauda which is located in Sirsa, Haryana in North India.
Hospital, school and shops are there in Dera Baba Jaimal Singh, headquarter of RSSB but no Beauty Salon. Also, cutrent RSSB is popular as Baba Ji, previous one as Maharaj Ji, Jaimal Singh was also popular as Baba Ji while Sawan Singh was also like Charan Singh popular as Maharaj Ji.
But the current head of Dera Sacha Sauda, Gurmeet Ram Raheem is popular as Guru Ji.
Meeting Centres of RSSB are called, Satsang Centres, Satsang Ghars in India and Science of the Soul Study Centre in most other countries.
Main Centre is just called Dera.
But meeting centres of Dera Sacha Sauda are called Ashrams.
How to verify the above?
I am sending you screenshots of news articles.
First, I send you the link to Equilibrium of Love, 80 mb (approx.) pdf file which from page 186 to 221 shows what facilities are there in RSSB Main Dera. Its a pictorial album so don’t worry you can read these pages in a few minutes. On page no. 209 shows the general services in which it is mentioned there is one barber but there is no Beauty Salon/Parlour mentioned.
http://www.rssb.org/pdf-dl/Equilibrium%20of%20Love%20-%20English.pdf
Please download from above link.
That Dera Sacha Sauda has a Beauty Salon is verified from the link of this news article
https://www.ndtv.com/video/news/news/good-life-beauty-parlour-on-dera-campus-13866
That, head of Dera Sacha Sauda is popular as Guruji and centres are called Ashram as well is found in these articles.
This is an article on fficial website of Dera Sacha Sauda and mentions its current head as Guruji.
https://www.derasachasauda.org/remove-your-vices-with-meditation-and-render-selfless-services-revered-guruji/
This article on official website of Dera Sacha Sauda clearly uses the word Ashram for its centres.
https://www.derasachasauda.org/category/ashrams/
Such usage of words Ashram and Guru ji is not common in RSSB only due to tradition.
Beauty Salon is the biggest Clue.
Persons claiming to be Sheena or her acquaintances may have wrongly guessed after reading “Memoirs of Seeker” that it must be about RSSB and may had thought that they can lie to you about their identity but anyways will be conveying the truth so they lied to you”.
As one of the comments on that post of yours includes the statement “where else there is a school, hospital, etc” which is wrong as Dera Sacha Sauda also has hospital and school but as mentioned in above links has a beauty salon/parlour as well.
https://wap.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/gurmeet-ram-rahim-s-domain-cosmetics-schools-hospitals-toffees-and-more-117082501014_1.html
Above link mentions school and hospital, below links are from official sites of Dera Sacha Sauda
https://www.derasachasauda.org/education/
https://www.derasachasauda.org/hospitals/
You can contact RSSB, see within the picture album from the first link or use any other means to see whether there is a beauty salon or place of cosmetics within RSSB Main Dera or not and demand proof of the same from tgose claiming to be Sheena or her acquaintances as they claim them to be.
If you search Dera Baba Jaimal Singh or Radha Soami Satsang Beas along with Beauty Salon/Parlour you will see many search results showing Beauty Parlours with their addresses because that is how Search engines work but the addressses show different cities/towns but never the address of the Dera.
Hope you search for truth in an objective manner.
Regards
Vibhor

Why is not my comment showing?

Brian Hines has mistaken, there is no Beauty Salon at the RSSB Dera.
The following link is of Picture Album of RSSB, it mentions all the services available in RSSB, there is a barber but no Beauty Salon.
http://www.rssb.org/pdf-dl/Equilibrium%20of%20Love%20-%20English.pdf
The pages 186-221 show the facilities available. Page 209 mentions which shops are there.
Memoirs of a Seeker says that the Dera has a Beauty Salon.
There are many other Deras, atleat one I know “Dera Sacha Sauda” has school, hospital and even a Beauty Salon.
Brian Hines only claims but gives no proof. I don’t think he is lying, just he has believed fake people

Thus, the Ashram mentioned in Memors of a Seeker is not RSSB Dera and the Guru must be someone else.

Vibhor, Typepad put your comment in the spam folder, perhaps because it had so many links. I just published it.

Vibhor, I’ve checked some reliable sources and they tell me that what you said in your comment is wrong. Dera Baba Jaimal Singh does have a beauty parlor, coffee shop, and such. So I’m going to consider that Sheena’s account of Gurinder Singh Dhillon and bad stuff going on at the RSSB headquarters is correct, and you are wrong.

Hi Brian!
If I understood correctly you already confirmed with a mutual friend of the author that this is actually a narrative of the Dera at Beas.
An author may combine events from different people which actually occurred as part of creating a narrative.
Whether there is a coffee shop or a Harley dealership just outside the gates may be fictional details added to actually protect the anonymity of the actual location and organizion.
Of more utility would be to ask Victor…
Buddy, have you witnessed any strong arm tactics or off color jokes from the Master?
Have you spent time with him?

Hey guys
Any Ashram or Dera worth its salt has to have a beauty parlour – don’t folk go there to get their ‘self’ waxed?

Dear friends we need to tune in our attention to the Shabad or divine Word through daily meditation as explained by the Satguru during NAAMDHAN.
When we succeed in this practice with our effort and HIS grace the FAITH AND LOVE For Our Beloved Master will become as strong as a Mountain that nothing or no one will ever be able to shake.
Because then we would know and have our own Personal Experience with Shabad the Divine Word, the TRUTH, There would then be no doubts or questions left. Just GRATITUDE and GRATITUDE with every breath.

Hi Chandru
I enjoy the Shabd also.
But that gives me strength to acknowledge facts.
Fraud is fraud. Those facts are publicly established.
People can be led astray.
And people can hold onto illusion.
It’s a personal choice.
For me, Shabd gives me the strength to say, “that’s not right,” regardless of the consequences.

All a play of Karmas that have to be gone through, to hear and Enjoy the divine Word is one thing and to tunein to the divine Melody is another thing altogether, We need to rise above all this to even know What or Who HE truly is.
My humble advice : Time is Short focus on the goal and do not waste time in these petty discussions

Hi Chandru
Karma brought both of us here.
And, in Shabd, we can address that Karma responsibly.
Fraud is a crime and it is wrong for us to demand justice of the poor but give all mercy to the rich.
Let us handle our Karma expeditiously and responsibly.
That is the purpose of meditation. To go through this responsibility. And that includes acknowledging harm and all assistance where we can.
And that begins with acknowledgement of the Truth, both inner and outer.

Further, Chandru, to give mercy, to forgive and forget, especially when a Master is in the middle of fraud, all that must begin with an honest admission of guilt. Then mercy pours forth automatically.

Let me expand upon this point, the model of contrition, the model of repentence does not wait for a court to judge them. That person, Guru, Guru’s wife or cousins or disciples, knowing right from wrong, knows best the line they crossed. They don’t admit their guilt only after they were exposed.
They admit it first, before anyone even raises a question. They acknowledge their fall. We all fall, that’s why we are here. They don’t sue their brother. They take the blame for their brother and even their Master and his wife, their relatives.
So the judgment of right or wrong is not in the hands of the court alone.
Actually it is the principle duty of the one who accepts the job to be the perfect roll model of how to live, how to love, and all those close to him involved.
Had his cousins truly loved him, would not they have jumped forth to accept full responsibility, out of pure love for their Guru?
But it is the Captain of the Ship who must lead the way it seems. And that is fitting. Then He accepts the full responsibility without excuse out of sheer love for his wife and cousins, and the entire Sangat.
“By your deeds shall you be known.”
This is the action of a true Sat Guru.
They are not accountable to anyone.
But they hold themselves accountable to the highest standard, far higher than any earthly court could conceive.
And yet they humble themselves out of love before their disciples.
And where fraud has happened, they leap forth to say,” This was my Lapse alone. I’m sorry to those I have hurt.I shall work now to recompense those harmed.”
Shabd does this Chandru. Shabd, real Shabd isn’t a bowl of your mother’s pudding.
Shabd will strip your skin away until you are shamed, bruised and alone. Until you become less than nothing.
And all that is left is the true You. Pure gold.

Very well written Spence.
I see that the same as you do.
In the time with maharaji there were much more talks about sincerety good life etc.
There were deep Satsangs about subtilities in LIFE also.
It now seems”much joking ,confusing satsangs because different sort of teachings.
Different for Indians and westerners..I was not there for some years..but also not too long ago..
I really did’nt like the teachings some Indian satsang givers did.
Lot of quilt and we are the lucky ones..because of the Master..
But one can slip etc..

Sorry Spence,
I was a bit of track in my post to you.
I feel love for Babaji…but I do not understand his ways..
He should be more honest in behavier ..
When I read that he can be sad at times.
Then even stops the satsang..
I really feel sad also..
But what can one do??
He could be more honest??
We all make mistakes..there is enough love to forgive and forget..
But at first he could tell about his behavier and the WHY..??

My thoughts about Gurinder is that he has been instructed to play this role of guru and his sadness comes from his own realisation that he is not what he is supposed to be, but rather he is trapped in his calling, so who are we to judge. We are all players in this game of life and all we can do is our very best and stick to our principles as much as possible.

About giving away one’s own personal power to another…
Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. If you realise that you have enough, you are truly rich.
Tao Te Ching

Nice Jen!
I agree with you,we do’nt have to judge.
We need to get insight for ourselves
In my case it is important to see and differentiate.
Because then I can let go..
So maybe the way to digest is different.
Trying to understand and let go in the right time.

Thanks s*
Nice to hear from you 🙂

Hi s* and Jen!
Our happiness is always found within ourselves IMHO. And the mystery and Spirit there is astounding.
I mirror Jen’s Tao sentiment that it’s difficult to judge others. And why? It takes away from our own happiness.
But to deny truth simply creates barriers to our own happiness within ourselves also.
Fraud was committed over many years. That is a fact. Baba Ji is in the center of it. That is also a fact. It is on the scale of hundreds of millions of dollars and includes tainted medications and the largest penalty in the history of the US FDA.
I repeat these things because denial of them, ignoring them, avoiding them is an easy habit. And that habit buries dirt and darkness in the very subconscious we work daily to expose to the light through our meditation.
And we know nothing of the interpersonal events and dynamics involved.
There is a large organization to maintain, including all the people at different levels. Everthing runs on money and a large organization must handle large money. Baba Ji co – founded a large investment firm while acting as a master. And he remains one of its important stewards. And that firm is also in the middle of all this fraud.
I don’t actually believe salvation requires maintaining international properties, organizations and the like. It doesn’t require handling a single rupee. And it may require hands off every rupee. It has nothing to do with fraud at any time.
I don’t think spiritual awakening or happiness is an assembly line operation. And its easy to see how spirituality can become a second priority, a second interest to more material interests and ambitions, when a large organization of devotees and their money is involved.
It’s easy to take spirituality for granted, thinking we are so wealthy with it. But in a flash, a lifetime of effort can evaporate. And we are left with nothing. It can happen in a heart beat for a Satsangi, and a Master, and the organization that has swallowed them both.
Spirituality is a personal discovery and commitment to worshipping God within ourselves. That’s a singular process, not a group or organizational one.
It is no lack of spirituality or humility to ask for the truth. It’s the opposite. If you are strong enough to handle it, you go there. That’s what every good Satsangi should aspire to. Take every dark room and light a candle there. The power to deal with the truth as it is.
Baba Ji isn’t obliged to initiate anyone, nor to decide on how to use a single rupee of donated money. He is under no obligation to maintain his role for the sake of others’ financial security or his own. Especially when these considerations draw him from the singular duty of spirituality.
He is under no obligation to discuss his activities as an investor of other people’s money.
But neither are we required to support fraud, directly or indirectly. Or to stay for one minute in an atmosphere tainted by them.
He can give up his role as Master. Or he can give up the burden of that questionable wealth. His choice.
We have the same choice. Because the power that raises us is within is much stronger than these issues, but demands singular loyalty to the Spirit.
We should all be encouraged to ask for the Truth outside with equal vigor to our daily appeals within….

Maharaji used to say that bricks at the bottom must be there b to support the bricks at the top.
Now everyone wants to be at the top.
But it’s the bricks at the bottom that hold the building up.
That’s where the saints, the true and pure saints, be they saints of spirituality or saints of service and submission…. Are found.

Hi Spence,
It seems like you are all about justice and thats okay, thats who you are. I no longer even care about Sant Mat and the Master and what he does. I am not here on this world to judge and try to fix everyone’s problems.
Watching and being aware of my own thoughts and actions from moment to moment and using my intent in a positive way is the path I follow now.
You say “I repeat these things because denial of them, ignoring them, avoiding them is an easy habit. And that habit buries dirt and darkness in the very subconscious we work daily to expose to the light through our meditation.”
Spence I am not responsible for anyone else’s actions in this world. I am only responsible for my thoughts and actions. If people are fake and fooling others its not for me to get involved. You have a religious and kind of righteous attitude and thats okay, we are who we are.
You say spirituality is a personal discovery and I agree but I don’t agree with needing commitment in worshipping God. To each their own Spence. We each discover our own inner Truth.
I take the middle path – “neither a path of denial nor of affirmation. It shows us the paradox of the universe, within and beyond the opposites”.

Where is Sheena? Is she real or Brian’s fictional character? I think you should start commenting as Sheena brian to make this look more real like you did when you published books in Sheena’s name. Come on Brian i thought you were smarter than this!

I finally walked of from this institution, establishment….no truth here in RSSB, no God to be found in these centres.
I joined when I was 14, and now I am 41 and what a waste of life and sinful life like most of RSSb …
Imagine there is a king judge when we die, will he judge us by our actions, truthfulness or by our vegetarian diet…..is it our damn diet that will bring heaven, lol….or truth

You can pray all you want here, you can do mechanical long hours of prayer of 5 names such as jot Niranjan, etc….nothing will happen. These establishments /ashrams are a big con…
I wish them well, but my journey was a tough one and I know from fact that 99%of RSSb will not budge or listen. Proper brainwashed….everybody doing their best behaviour at these centres and beating their wife and kids at home…I seen it all…
Watch Bobby deols serial called ashram on Netflix and this exposes all these centres….