More details surface about financial fraud involving RSSB guru

Has anyone found out if any of the money made its way into the US? It always struck me as kind of odd that this man who was supposedly coming to USA for satsangs only found 45 minutes to spend with the people whose souls he claimed to be responsible for. I assumed he was just doing business as usual when he came to Chicago, but it’d be funny if he were charged for racketeering or something here, too.

This soo sad…
Why can’t they come to agreements… ??
One would say that must be possible..,but who am I ?
I really feel for them.
Actually especially for Malav.
But again..who am I ??
I do not know much about money..happy that i can eat and have a good roof over my head..
My English is not fantastic.
And I never see the people involved..
Altough that I feel for them..
They are my Maharaji’s family..
Maharaji was my beloved Master who did so much good in my life..
Again the teachings were to heavy to me..
I am more of a Bhakti type..I often fell over my own feet (spiritually speeking)
Maharaji once said to me ”you are just like my daughter”..
So Nimmi was in my heart my Sister..
I feel for all of them anyway anyhow..
I hope that ..well I do’nt know what hope..
Maybe justice..no matter what..there must come an reasonable good end to all of this.
Just my feelings..now in the moment..

@ s
They are all fraudsters. God dies not mix with Money!
Don’t feel sorry for con men sister. They wouldn’t feel sorry for you!
Regards
A

Hi Arjuna,
You are right ofcourse they do not feel for me..
But the family falling so apart..
What would maharaji Charan Singh had done right now??
I think that he at least would felt terrible.

@ s. Sister
It’s the past let it go and don’t dwell too much on what Maharaji would have done.
It’s a sad state of affairs and for people seeking hope it’s been destroyed. I mean people from non RSSB grounds who seek hope. We all do it’s what being human is. The mind is very powerful and is always thing what if etc. Enjoy every moment of life.
All the best

The story of GSD and his cohorts will forever be a reminder in history of what happens when you mix material greed with spirituality.

Dear Arjuna,
Enjoying every moment of life..thank you yes..
With the ups and downs..life gives also.
I do not ”involve” myself too much in this story.
It is theirs not mine for sure.
We are mixed bags and sometimes things come up.
I realy feel sorry,but everything has a purpose..
For years I was grown up thinking these people were totaly perfect..
Now we know they are totaly struggeling human beings.
They must/will find their way.

s*
I totally understand how you feel. It’s very sad, especially for the Singh brothers. I’m not sure if Dhillon actually has feelings… not sure if he’s even capable of feeling remorse but if so then I feel sorry for him too.
My advice to GSD is watch Lucifer on Netflix—it will bring you enlightenment. 🙂

I personally feel that one should not totally & blindly believe in what media projects & says. For all those who have adopted this path….please go and ask the Guru straightforwardly instead of getting carried away by what the media says. All the followers have the right to do that….they have placed their faith on Sant Mat. So why not ask directly & get the doubts cleared. No one knows the true story. So please ask directly.

Ritu Gupta, good luck getting an answer.
Only answer you get will be “what do you think” or believe what you want to believe”.
We haven’t yet heard a “No, it’s false, not true, or Yes, it’s true”.
Why is that?
Give a good think on that. If you know it to be false, just say so.
Maybe you can ask at the next Q&A and let us know what he says.

Ritu Gupta, someone did ask Gurinder about the financial fraud accusations. See:
https://churchofthechurchless.com/2019/04/rssb-guru-responds-to-allegations-of-criminality-weirdly
This is what the RSSB guru reportedly said. Not very responsive, for sure:
Q: Babaji: what do you have to say about the financial scandal?
A: RSSB has nothing to do with it. In case you want to read we have an article on the website.
Q: In case someone asks what should we say?
A: Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang.
Q: Are you sure I say this?
A: Yes, it’s up to you whatever you want to believe.
Q: How come you have been silent on it and made no comments?
A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.

Brian you are again posting something you have no full knowledge on. I was in Singapore in the audience during this Question and answer session and everyone in the audience got the reply they wanted. You were not there and have NO IDEA what actually transpired. And also
This is not the first time he has been asked this it’s been brought up few times in different places as well.
I want to let everyone who comes to this site to listen to Ritu and not merely read what you see here on COC of in the media. Beware of these people posting here as they have an alternate agenda. They are not open minded and only want to prove the Master wrong.

Anon, the person who sent me the Q&A “transcript” also was at the Singapore meeting. Are you saying this person is mistaken? Do you have a different version of this particular Q&A? If so share it. If not, stop with the ridiculous accusation that because I wasn’t there I don’t know what happened.
Someone who was there told me what happened. This is called reporting. Take a look at a newspaper. You’re learning about things that you weren’t there to see yourself.

Difference is Anon was there, Brian Spence and Jesse were not. So by defacto contrast the person who has a direct personal experience is far more credible in their judgment and perception than anyone operates via 3rd person reporting, especially if the 3rd person also has some axe to grind in presenting the ‘report’ for ulterior motivation of misplaced ‘interest’.

Brian the person who sent you the transcript was NOT at the Singapore meeting. He has received this as a forward and is forwarding it to you. I know who wrote this Transcript and yes this is not written the exact way it happened. The person who “reported” this to you was not there either. Again you don’t know much but pretend to act like this is classified information being sent to you. Please be better informed before you start writing blogs about topics being “reported” to you.

It would be best for anyone who has a sincere respect for honesty to follow through with the lady Gupta’s advice and confront the ‘alleged’ perpetrator of said crimes directly in person. Then they’ll at least get an answer which either satisfy their ‘curiosity’ or vilification of their accusations, or not.
Otherwise it remains hearsay, subject to assumptions and personal projection of preconceived opinion.

The fact is we don’t know who was there.
Whom should we believe?
But when facts are present and summarily dismissed, then the witness is not objective. They have a relationship with the accused.
The reader will have to make up their own mind. And I suggest that an objective person would want that.

Anon
I have a very hard time believing that’s your name.
I get that there are a lot of Susans and Johns in this world.
But everywhere I look on the internet I find Anon.
And here is the really strange thing.
I’ve never ever met anyone face to face with that name!
I hope you don’t mind my saying this, but I’m suspicious about what you write because Anon isn’t a real name.
So when you start like that, really, what are we to think of what you write?

Spence you can be suspicious about anything you want it doesn’t change the fact that I’m writing what I heard about which doesn’t match what is reported here. I have the liberty to use my real name or go anonymous and I choose the later.

@Ilahamni,
Is that an Indian name?
Anyway, are you saying we should go to a meeting or Satsang and ask GSD about his financial woes? Personally I really don’t care about his personal finances… or his financial woes. It’s just simply a forum to debate his integrity as far as spirituality goes. Even if he were able to truly convince me that he is completely honest in all his financial dealings (which, again, I couldn’t care less about) I would still be convinced that he’s Lord of Hell (just based on my personal experiences with him).
But ‘Lucifer’ has taught me its all about self forgiveness… so in the end the only thing that matters is self love and Truth.

I learned more from that stupid Netflix series than I ever did from Sant Mat.

Sonya I’m glad you found what you needed to find in Netflix. Great for you. Why you so concerned about Master then? You didn’t have a good experience as you so clearly keep writing here so then leave it leave the path and go. Why the constant bashing? Do you make yourself feel better or superior somehow by constantly doing this? You don’t see a problem with your regular need to take pot shots at him?
And by the way he never forced you to listen to him or attend his talk…you did this out of your OWN choice.

Anon, your credibility is zero until you provide your real name and your own description of how Gurinder answered the question about the financial fraud allegations.
I have an email message from someone who provided their genuine name and email address to me, along with the following description of what was said in Singapore. If you disagree with this description, please email me with your alternative description: brianhines1@gmail.com
I trust people who are willing to reveal who they are to me, even if they want to publicly remain anonymous, more than someone like you who hides behind “Anon.” How do I know you are credible? Here’s the description I was given:
Q: Babaji: what do you have to say about the financial scandal?
A: RSSB has nothing to do with it. In case you want to read we have an article on the website.
Q: In case someone asks what should we say?
A: Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang.
Q: Are you sure I say this?
A: Yes, it’s up to you whatever you want to believe.
Q: How come you have been silent on it and made no comments?
A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.

Brian like I said I don’t care if you think I’m crediible or not. I don’t need to email you as well as I’m messaging here itself which is for everyone to read instead of a private email between the 2 of us.
I will stick with anon as my identity on this blog because Giving out my real name makes no difference on what was said
In the question and answer session In Singapore. If you want answers from the master then attend the session and you will hear him reply to this and it will be your first hand experience NOT what someone understood of what was said and later on forwarded to many people which after that was emailed to you by someone who was no where close to Singapore. I was there in the audience and the person who sent you this forward was not and neither were you so you have no idea what answers were given and in what context. What was “reported” to you is not accurate just like all the other reports you keep referring to. End of
Story

Anon,
Have you read the letters posted here? About the isue’s?
Also between Malvinder and Babaji?
One can see clearly that they are in trouble.
Babaji involved..
Malvinder is frightened even now even because of Dera sewadars..
He,they are in trouble..

An On
Thank you for your most interesting posts here on this blog.
I see that you have carefully overlooked the obvious to the obfuscation of the real points being made here. I admire how a multi faceted blog can be reduced to a singular non sequitur by your dexterity in semantics.
Please keep posting. You have coloured me beautiful .
Those who seek the Truth
Those who see the Truth
Whose Truth

Anon, any update on Ishwar’s answer to your follow up question?

“And by the way he never forced you to listen to him or attend his talk…you did this out of your OWN choice.”
Nobody is forcing you satsangis to read this blog or our comments either. Time to move on and refrain from your attempt to dictate what we talk about, Anon. We’re gonna continue criticizing “master” and his creepy followers.

Anon, you, like GSD, have refused to actually answer the question. What did he say in response to the questions?
You’ve been asked multiple times here and you deflect. So if you really were there, and I guess out of the hundreds (maybe thousands?), you can tell who was there and who wasn’t, then you can enlighten all of us what his answers were? Or maybe you weren’t really there wither.
That’s why you can’t tell us.

Hi seeker no I didn’t hear back from Ishwar Puri on the follow up. I can try to reach out again and see if he responds this time. Will keep you updated. Thanks

Hi Anon
Please share what you remember, since you say you were there.
Add your witness to the other.
“don’t shout at the darkness. Light a candle.”

@ Sonya
You do realise that Lucifer on Netflix is fictional😋

Like I said if you want answers attend the session and you will get it. All of us that were there got our answers. This blog is not the place to get answers or to write about what transpired. And actually for once Jesse is right no one forces us to come here and I did come here to read on Baba Faqir Chand as it was interesting since David was there with him in person but now that conversation is over I’m out of here. This space is not for me. Blessings to all.

Anon, I was curious about where you are commenting from. Turns out, Palo Alto, California.
Since you aren’t able to describe what happened at the Singapore meeting, seems like there’s a good chance you weren’t at that meeting. Also, it’s decidedly possible that you are the same person as “Jen from Austin Texas,” who also is from Palo Alto but deceives about that.
Kind of amazing how supposedly “spiritual” people are willing to be so loose with the truth. Makes me glad that I’m a truth-loving atheist.

Good catch Brian Ji!

Hi Anon
You wrote
“All of us that were there got our answers….”
And earlier you wrote
” I was there in the audience and the person who sent you this forward was not…”
But in another place you wrote
“I’m writing what I heard about which doesn’t match what is reported here.”
In the first two you claim first person status. But in this earlier quote you claim to have only heard about the event, second or third hand.
So please confirm which it is. Remember that Baba Ji sees you and knows if you are telling the truth.
Take advantage in your reply to be honest, if only for His sake, please. And if course like all events this will be part of your development.
Don’t worry. Brian Ji loves the truth. All is forgiven when anyone here tells the truth, however painful that may be.

Aw shame than Anon is out of here
I thought he would go on an on an on

Brian surprising to me that you write so much about this path and yet you don’t know that you don’t have to be from a local place to attend the meeting locally. It’s open to all. And this particular one was announced prior so that people knew about it. Not the first time I was in the audience. You don’t want to believe me then don’t. The one who forwarded you the email was NOT there and it’s NOT an accurate reporting of what transpired. That’s my point.

Mike that’s funny. Hahahahaha

Anon, I look forward to getting a copy of your airline ticket to Singapore, your real name, and your description of how Gurinder Singh Dhillon responded to the question about financial fraud allegations.
Absent that, there’s no reason for me, or anyone else, to believe you rather than the person who gave me their genuine name and shared what happened at the Singapore meeting.

Hi Arjuna,
Yes! 😂 I know he’s fictional—it’s all fictional but there’s a very good moral to the series that shows how ridiculous and destructive religion and dogma can be. 🙂
It’s just a beautiful story where the Devil learns to love himself. It represents to “devil” in all of us that sits on our shoulders judging us. The devil is just our minds. He’s not real. We make him real if we believe in him.
Lucifer is just really fun. Especially the last/latest season and had an awesome Season finale.

Anon,
You keep saying the same thing over and over and so do I… What’s the difference?
Don’t be too offended by the “Lord of Hell” statement. If you watched the most recent season finale of Lucifer you’d see it’s not really an insult.
OK, I’ll TRY not to keep talking about Mr. Morningstar.
🙂

I also wannabe an enlightened Xer guru hater freedom thinker
Where do I sign up to the elevated club?

Out of 4,000,000 initiated there’s 1,2,3,4 and 1/2 enlightened clear sighted free thinkers in here, must be one hell of an eye opener to realize how stupid and gullible they all once were.

Brian sure I will give you my airline ticket. I bought that online so it’s an easy forward to your email. As soon as you provide me with the information that what you reported is true and the person who forwarded this to you provided his information.(I don’t need name as I know just airline ticket just like you ask me) I find it fascinating how you ask me for this but did not get any information from him before reporting it as what happened. It’s because you will report what suits you and your agenda. This is how this blog works. I hope people who read this are aware of this.

“Brian surprising to me that you write so much about this path and yet you don’t know that you don’t have to be from a local place to attend the meeting locally.”
Not true’ at least for satsangs were the guru was present. I was only allowed to go to Gurinders satsangs in Chicago. Not the Petaluma or the other locations. I still get phone call announcements for those visits sometimes.

“Jesse is right”
As always.
I get tired of being right so often, Anon, but I rarely get tired of hearing from others who finally take the brave step to admitting how right I am. Thanks for finding the courage to embrace the truth.
As for your comment- “Like I said if you want answers attend the session and you will get it” allow me to be right again and tell you that you’re utterly incorrect. You will not receive an answer about anything from your baba. His answers are all deflections, regardless of the topic at hand.

IlahamL, all good things are rare. Saying there are 4 million who believe in something isn’t a strong case for believing, especially considering that nearly all of those 4 million rebelled against and rejected spiritual paths with more members. There are nearly a billion Hindus and over a billion Christians.
If numbers are relevant, return to your original religion.
Also stop changing your name if you’re gonna comment the exact same way with every name. You’re probably one if these sad mental cases who pay for VPNs

Anon, you still haven’t responded to what GSD said in response to the questions.
You keep replying to the fact that you can prove you were there, but don’t say what GSD really said.
Which probably means you don’t know, do you? If you haven’t responded yet, I doubt you will, because you yourself can’t recall.
I believe he’s coming to the Pacific Northwest and California this summer. I’m sure he will be asked the same questions. Maybe someone will comment on his responses and you can say that they weren’t there, and that you were there, and you still won’t be able to give a proper answer.

VPNs???
No I’m just curious about how you became so enlightened to realize guruhood is such a diabolical sham.
You must either have a sixth sense or special illuminated insight to recognize fake gurus (on the outside of course – notwithstanding it’s highly unlikely you ever met anyone on the inside).
Assuming your elevated intelligence has such a keen sense of knowing truth from falsehood and your BS radar is obviously far keener than those other poor 4,000,000 suckers who don’t have your special gifts.

Fascinating exchange between Anon and the Ring Master
Who is actually the liar and who is the truth-seeker?
The spiritualist or the atheist – get the answer to that one and all else is meaningless.

There was no original religion to rebel against, perhaps for you there might have been. Why I should return to any ‘original religion’ that died with it’s founders is just a dumb kind of concept.
I got to conclude you’re just plain dumb because your supposed intelligence is warped by your grandiose blindly duped intellect.

Brian should be commended for his selfless great seva he is doing.
He is the ultimate sevedar doing the guru’s tough ask work. By hosting this site he’s contributing to keeping all those highly intelligent and scrutinizing analysts of falsified guru worship far from the path.
Their place is here in the hallowed halls of critical thinking.
Most definitely not at any audience with any fake teachers who teach their followers to still their thoughts and concentrate at a point between their shut eyes.

Hi Ilahaml
You wrote
“You must either have a sixth sense or special illuminated insight to recognize fake gurus.”
Several hundred millions in fraudulently obtained (stolen) funds somehow finding their way into the pockets of the Guru, their wife and sons can do that too.

Given Anon’s reticence I conjecture that whatever Baba Ji said, it did not involve taking even the most minute rice grain of responsibility.
Typical.

Or maybe Baba Ji said some other sarcastic deflection.
Typical.
Or maybe Baba Ji demanded silence and obedience and veiled threats of ‘it’s your loss if you question pappa.. ‘
Typical.

You see Anon and Ilahaml, from the above….
We’ve been to a few meetings too.

Spence
you want it doesn’t change the fact that I’m writing what I heard, about which doesn’t match what is reported here
I added a comma and now perhaps it makes sense to you.
Brother if you want the truth (as you say) you should start with getting off this blog. Like I said I’m outta here. Let’s go 😊

@All…
Just for the record, I’m NOT enlightened. But I do know this world is made up of perception. And no two people agree on absolutely everything. So, sometimes we’re right and sometimes wrong. Some more than others…
Back to my playful sarcastic self so don’t take this devil thing (or religion for that matter) too seriously.
Then again, who am I to tell anyone what to think or do. I often ask myself why I keep reading the comments posted on this blog. And then I realized why. I watch, listen and participate because there are a lot of very interesting characters with very curious viewpoints here. VERY.

OK, if Brian actually posts this comment with Lucifer recap/season 4 preview link I’ll stop talking about him. 😂 😈 https://youtu.be/J_a4UDOw9Rc
I think most of the stories from religions and saints are pretty much allegorical… like children’s stories. Lessons to be learned… life is essentially just a series of stories. Take from it what you will…

I’m beginning to understand the way the path of the Guru inflates egos and destroys actual spiritual progress.
By believing the Guru is perfect and never errs, the follower believes they can now claim they are also, in tiny degree, something perfect and priceless. But only so long as they acknowledge the Guru as the absolute perfection. And that in the service to the Master they are also perfect and cannot err.
When the Guru says ‘at this level you cannot possibly understand’ they teach every follower a new excuse which they can use at any convenient time for any moral transgression.
This is the fastest path to the bottom of the wheel.

What person would give up such wonderful toys that the path provides, though they assure one ‘s fall from their true natural state.
Only Truth, ugly and magnificent.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Brian Ji.

Welcome to the Kangaroo Court. Talk about hearsay! Babbling away on both sides and its all meaningless especially for the less and not the meaning. I know these words are non-sense meaning but where is the Jury *sigh. So difficult to NOT react…
My favourite quote: “A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.” Makes sense huh?!

Jen,
It’s strange to not react to loved ones..
To ones you live with and to questions from disciples.
How can one have faith if there is no communication?
One has not to react when people are not good to you ofcourse.
But that is a different cookie.
Between the guru and disciple there has to be a bond of faith in my vieuw.

Actually I meant a bond of trust.
So that is something to work on from” both sides.”
Babaji could have give trust..to a doubting disciple.

Spence,
Totally agree. It’s not fair to anyone to believe humans can be perfect. It’s not fair to put that expectation on someone either. We’re all flawed… just trying to find our way “home”.

@ s*
How I feel, now that I no longer see myself as a satsangi, is that maybe Gurinder is being more blunt than the previous Masters and he is just being himself, another human being like everyone else. People put these Masters on a pedestal and have too many expectations about them so then they are disappointed. I have never met anyone who is loving to everyone, obviously I have not met a Saint and I wonder do they even exist? Probably not. I even don’t care about all this problem of what his business practices are about. If he is doing wrong then he will eventually be found out and punished accordingly.
Cheers to you, hope you can find peace, embrace your life and live it to the best you can is my philosophy now and I even accept my feelings of depression at times, because life ain’t easy!

@Jen,
I promise, this isn’t just another one of my cheeky songs. It sums up what happens when one has the courage to question, not afraid to lose what they have held on to as truth for far too long: https://youtu.be/eJmAVBDp0Cs

Jen I agree with some of what you said except for this part-
“People put these Masters on a pedestal and have too many expectations about them so then they are disappointed.”
The fact is that he uses the title of Master and literally walks himself onto a pedestal in front of hundreds of thousands of people.
All he would ever have to do is stop showing up and disappear. No more pedestal. No more master.

Maybe the bigger issue is the teachings of Sant Mat. I mean, guru aside, I think it’s just the age old teachings of Sant Mant which don’t feel too saintly. Aside from what GSD does in his secular financial life, the real truth (for me) is that the teachings just don’t resonate. As far as spirituality goes, I’ve recently (VERY recently) learned that it has nothing to do with Gurinder. I just don’t believe in the teachings, that’s all. So what if he and I have had personality clashes. I’m feeling mature enough now to realize that was insignificant and it has nothing to do with the bigger picture. And the bigger picture—the grand scheme of things—the judgements, I just don’t buy it anymore. It’s not like GSD was a self-appointed guru. So my issues aren’t with him. There, no “pot shots”.

Jen and Jesse,
I am ok with that I know for a longer time, they are not perfect.
But still I have a sort of attachment to sangat,it’s near my house and I bike trough nature to see my friends.
And do some sewa..it’s just nice..
I felt for Babaji in a different way..but his behavier went more ”strange”.
What Jesse says..he is still is on a pedestal.
The teachings are more of advaita read new book ”from self to shabd”
Pitty there is written that ”the master” is totaly byond body and mind.
I feel that even as friends one react on important things otherwise there can not be a bond.

Hi Sonya,
Idd the teachings do not resonate with me also..actually never did.
I found them scary even.
The new little book has some very good things” from self to shabd.”(Hector Esponda Dubin)
Nisargadatta and Ramana and Buddha quotes..:0)
The teachings somewhat change more and more.

@Jen My favourite quote: “A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.” Makes sense huh?!
No, it does not make sense.
If we’re falsely accused of a crime we can’t say anything in response to that because it would be ‘reacting’. LMAO

Imagine for a moment a fiercly competitive British trading company investor and hard as nails land barron from the 1800’s. He enjoyed being the best, and crushing his competition. One of his favorite sayings was, “One must kill something every day!”.
Now, ironically, he finds himself reborn into an Indian family whose heritage is Sant Mat. Now they appoint him, type A personality and all, the next guru, because he is the most ‘get it done’ personality they have ever seen, and thinking this must reflect great Spiritual power.
Welcome to RSSB…

Sonya appreciate the comment without the pot shots. Now we can have a good discussion. I’m just curious which part of the teachings don’t resonate with you? And if so why did you get initiated?

@ Jesse,
Thousands of people, probably millions, give their personal power away to all sorts of religious leaders, pop stars, presidents, and so many other types who people put on a pedestal and worship. Whose fault is it, if some people are so vulnerable as to believe in anything they are told by someone posturing on a stage. Is it because they are desperate and empty and seeking for something else, so who to blame, the actor or the vulnerable person?
…………………
PJ when I quoted what Gurinder supposedly said: “A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.” Makes sense huh?!”
I was being sarcastic because the quote does not make sense. Thats why I put “Makes sense huh?!” like saying: “What The?!”

Jen you miss the point. In leftist circles you’re what would be called a “victim blamer” though I don’t care about that kind of thing.
Yes people are idiots who like being taken advantage of. And yes there are opportunists who are willing to take advantage.
At no point have I or would I solely blame Gangsta Gurinder, but to say others are putting him on a pedestal simply isn’t true.
He hires marketers and authors to advertise his sect, invite attendees to huge meetings, has workers build stages and buildings for the sole purpose of providing space for him to talk, and then walks with his own two feet onto a stage in front of them to tell them that he and he alone can save them from hell.
It’s not like Gurinder was just sitting at home and a mob formed outside and declared him to be god.

Hi Jesse,
Not victim blaming. Just have a different mindset. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want to. I agree with Zen thinking “With our thoughts, we make the world” so its up to each individual as to how they see life. Asking myself now why am I even here on this blog! Cheers bro…

Hi s*
Interesting you bring up the latest RSSB book. I read it a few months back to see how things were now being ‘presented’, and posted a comment on this blog.
From memory and generalising, the book seems to be trying to ‘update’ the teachings, with as you say a more advaitic flavour. However, it confused things imo when the writer started to use the terms soul, consciousness and shabd interchangeably. I thought WTF? But then again maybe its all the same thing, it’s just that dogma even the new kind clouds it all for us.
Best wishes

…what Gurinder supposedly said: “A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.” Makes sense huh?!”

Hi Jen,
Seems very Zen-like to me too. After many reads, my best guess is he
was joking to make a point.
His point was to challenge the questioner to look within and use his
own intellect, intuition, or “inner master” for answers. There isn’t an
“RSSB for Dummies” manual. Nor do you need to race quivering to
the microphone and pester the Guru with “Whadda we say about
the scandal”.
But the questioner doesn’t get the joke or the point (“Are you sure we
should tell “em ya were bored and wanted a little excitement”)
So GSD says it again: “It’s up to you whatever you want to believe”.
The questioner is still in the dark (“How come you’ve been silent and
made no comment”) GSD tries a final time: “If I don’t tell you to react,
how can I”.
In my opinion, GSD is saying we don’t have to knee-jerk a response to
every crisis, race for the RSSB manual, go on bended-knee to the
Guru for a “how-to”. The point of meditation is to stop looking outside
for a savior, look within yourself, consult the inner master (or your own
mind), draw your own conclusions about the evidence…
Then the questions will fade and the befuddled disciple will be following
the intended mystic path of RSSB instead ot sleepwalking in a cult of
one’s own making.

Anon,
The part of the teachings that don’t resonate with me are that God punishes sinners. That we are “guilty” in the eyes of God. Now I believe we punish ourselves and that God doesn’t see any imperfections in what he created. He cannot create imperfection. We create guilt and that guilt causes us to punish ourselves and when we punish ourselves and feel fearful we become the worst versions of ourselves. And that’s when we destroy what’s beautiful. That’s when we destroy others. It warps our perception and we project our own false guilt upon others. It’s a vicious cycle.
Ironically, I decided to get initiated because I thought it would help me get rid of my “guilt”. Instead it only reinforced and compounded my imaginary “guilt” making me a much more fearful person. Fear and hate are just two sides of the same coin. Ask Yoda. 🙂

Anon,
We could essentially just start and end with this—“Radha Soami” which we translate in English to mean Lord of the Soul. So there was Soami (Lord) the husband, and then his wife Radha (Soul). There you have the husband “lording” over his wife…
Don’t trivialize this. The implications are profound. If there was an Original Sin it was the birth of inequality.
Inequality… and in the most intimate of relationships. I’m sure GSD would say he thinks men and women are equal, but would he say that everyone is equal to him?
Adam and Eve… Lilith and Lucifer. WTF is wrong with this world??? It’s not our stupid karmas. It’s the belief in and acceptance of inequality. Caste, creed, race, blah, blah, blah. Doesn’t even compare to the complacency (especially in India) towards gender inequality.
And I can’t remember if it was you or someone else who said I doubt you’ve never seen anything inside—I’m not even sure who that was directed at, but I saw ONE thing. I tried hard to avoid seeing anything for some reason. What I saw towards the end of my days as a Satsang was a scene showing me the Truth had not been fully written yet. There’s a chapter that has not been put into words for humans to read just yet.
Of course, visions are projections of the mind just as dreams are but they often show the hidden things our worldly awake mind filters out.
Dreams, visions… the unfiltered mind. Yet not without merit. We live in the land of stories, songs, sounds and symbols.

Sonya thanks for your reply. Interesting to know. All the best to you in your journey. Just stay positive. 😊

Anon, what do you believe in? What are your thoughts related to Santmat?

Prolonged silence, year after year, by a participant or close associate to the participants in crime is a very powerful and informative statement. It means at least one and often several of these things…
1. I’m not helping you or anyone by choice.
2. I don’t honor you or anyone who asks as sincere.
3. I don’t honor my responsibility to you, the law or anyone else.
4.I’m guilty. I’m far more guilty than it looks.
5. I’m afraid of being blamed.
6. I don’t want to accept responsibility unless I’m forced to by other people, with a higher morality than mine.
7. If others take all the blame, who got caught, and I can avoid taking my share of the blame that works for me.
8. I don’t care who gets hurt.
9.I don’t care if the other guilty parties go free.
10.I have no concern for any of the victims.
11. All that matters is me.
Silence over a prolonged period by a participant or close associate of participants in crime speaks loudly. It’s a deafening statement: The final and conclusive evidence that proves all the other evidence.

Seeker that’s a pretty loaded question. 😊 I believe that the purpose of life is to realize our divine nature. Each one of us have the capacity to do that. No one is more special than the other. Masters throughout the ages come to bring our attention to that purpose. They awaken a desire in us to seek something greater. The journey on the path within however is in our own hands it’s all about our own effort. This is why the practice cannot be emphasized enough. All mystics tell us to go within whereas we are stuck on the outside and then we question many things and get confused. I know that all answers (not just on the path) but life and the universe can be found within.
Seeker I can go on and on but I think this is enough. 😊 good luck

“Inequality… and in the most intimate of relationships. ”
In any measurable trait of humanity we’re all unequal as races, genders and individuals. There is nothing tangible we can measure and arrive at equality.
Height,weight intelligence, aggressiveness, whatever. We’re not equal. Way beyond humanity, nothing in existence is equal in any way.
Only in “spirituality” does equality even come into the picture. If you want to imaginarely live in a way where something so plainly non existent and fantastical is considered, you would actually do better being in a religious cult where we have equal souls.
Here on earth with our limited epistimological abilities, the one constant you will arrive at is inequality. As flawed as our ability is to even discern what is our isn’t real, inequality remains everywhere at all times, and at all levels of this creation.

Dear Sonya,
I have to ask, where in Sant Mat did you get those ideas of sin, guilt and punishment? As I recall, Charan Singh often said that guilt was a useless emotion and the only punishment was to remain apart from our true home. Do simran and bhajan, and the rest will come automatically.

You here who keep saying there’s overwhelming evidence against Gurinder, I have to wonder why you’re not bothering to go to Petaluma next month to confront the guru, ask him questions, and also perhaps confront the sangat on their apathy or complicity. Sort of like this young woman does for Infowars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m2aEZJGiBM
Year after year goes by with the blog talk about all the evils of RSSB, but no one will simply attend a Gurinder satsang Q&A to ask questions and make a statement.
This is the guru you say is making death threats and is guilty of egregious financial crimes. According to you, Gurinder is a menace. Why won’t you go to Petaluma to protest, to demand answers?

@Jesse,
OK, to hell with idealism. Oh wait, I almost forgot, we’re already in hell. 😏
@anami,
I think those ideas came from the Sant Mat teachings that we have returned to this world multiple times and in many different life forms because of our karmas. I ask you, does a loving God appoint another “god” to judge souls and send them back to this world—this hell—over and over again so that they can “pay for their sins”? It’s flawed from the beginning. No forgiveness. No real justice either.
It’s a love story gone terribly wrong…

J, I guess you don’t read this blog enough to keep up on the latest Gurinder Singh Dhillon developments. Someone did ask him about the financial fraud allegations last month, in Singapore. The guru’s answer showed why there’s no point in asking him again. I wrote a blog post about this:
https://churchofthechurchless.com/2019/04/rssb-guru-responds-to-allegations-of-criminality-weirdly
Here’s what Dhillon was asked, and how he answered:
Q: Babaji: what do you have to say about the financial scandal?
A: RSSB has nothing to do with it. In case you want to read we have an article on the website.
Q: In case someone asks what should we say?
A: Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang.
Q: Are you sure I say this?
A: Yes, it’s up to you whatever you want to believe.
Q: How come you have been silent on it and made no comments?
A: If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.

Anon,
If you were in Singapore,
Please report what you saw and heard
Instead of just saying you were there.
I am beginning to agree that there is something fishy going on

@Sonya
I see, unfair from the get go. But what if we put “God” in quotation marks too? Then it’s nothing personal.

Gurinder is innocent,
I’m a little confused… you seem to be suspicious of a person that is on your team.
No need to reply. Just found it curious.

”
I think those ideas came from the Sant Mat teachings that we have returned to this world multiple times and in many different life forms because of our karmas. I ask you, does a loving God appoint another “god” to judge souls and send them back to this world—this hell—over and over again so that they can “pay for their sins”? It’s flawed from the beginning. No forgiveness. No real justice either.”
…………………………
This is my point too Sonya..when I was young it scared me to death.
It is not loving not fair..( from God) I found.
So it was a relieve to not ”be” there,believe that stuff anymore.
In fact Babaji does not talk like that anymore as far as I know.
But he let satsang sewadars still tell the same stuff,at least a few years back I was there.
Babaji was sitting next to the speaker.
I showed my blech tongue to Babaji..
Later on I showed Babaji my sorry..ofcourse not about the stupid sewadar but about my ”behavier”
Actually I was happy to show my disgust about that stupid teaching.
The sewadar also talked ”We are the lucky once we are saved,not the ”others”..bbrr
It was good I showed my tongue..brrr
It had been nice if Babaji say something about that..
There is not much and surely not enough openess to”react,talk,doubd,discuss about this path.

Lets say,
it gets proven that He hhas been an accomplice in this web of legitimate or illegitimate transactions as it is being made out that He evaded a direct qquestions with distorted replies.
Will He be dethroned or can anyone .
In fact He is not the person in Chair with Worldly objectives neither have been seated on that humble pedestal by any Tom, Dick and Harry but by the dictat of His esteemed predecessors who at least were more docile and clear of any evildoings. Now to claim Him to be doubtful will in turn require the previous and consequently challenging the Saints of the past even of same order as well as they all have been groomed similarly and put to salvage the humanity out of this duality in similar ways and preachings.

Sonya
If someone claims to have been there (Anon) then it’s just strange that he or she doesn’t give their own version of events.
Why not be open and say what they witnessed instead of insisting that Brian has it all wrong but “I don’t want to say what really was said”
sounds like nonsense
I am not on any team. I am open to change my mind as anyone who is genuine should be
I might change my name to Gurinder is not innocent.
who knows

I was there however like it said earlier this blog is not the place to discuss q and a from the Master. Like Ms. Gupta suggested for anyone who wants to know please attend and you will get your answers. The answers reported here are not accurate of what transpired. That’s all I’ll say rest is up to you.

Anon
Either set the record straight and say what you heard or let everyone carry on.
Unless you are going to give the correct version, you have no right to tell others to not speculate
What have you got to hide? You are anonymous so I don’t see what stops you stating the q&a as you heard it.
Nobody here cares who is Gupta or what she says.

Haha funny how your name has changed.😊 I have nothing to hide, please believe whatever you want.

Deqr Anon
It may be true that you have nothing to hide. However, if it is true then there would be no problem in writing exactly what you heard in Singapore.
Nothing to hide means that you are open and ready to disclose information. Refusing to disclose the information means that there has to be something to hide. This is especially true on here because nobody knows who you are except for you. So you cannot possibly get into trouble. If you want to follow RSSB rules exactly then its already a bit late because you are not supposed to even be looking at churchless sites. certainly you must not comment for sure.
So you do have something to hide if you cannot just write exactly what you heard in Singapore. The question is why are you refusing to be open and write on here exactly what you heard. Is there a reason for the secrecy? If so, please give the reason or be honest and say that was sleeping in the satsang or your mind was somewhere else. why can’t you be honest? That is not being open and it means you do have something to hide. People with nothing to hide will say what they heard.
If there is an inaccurate version on here then unless you write the accurate one it is no use saying it is inaccurate.

Hello.
Satsangi for 44 years now and doing my best to try and develop awareness.
All this about GSD is not going to make anyone grow.
This is an individual path and each soul has to grow its own way.
We should not be in judgment of GSD or any other guru or sinner..all these things about important come into our awareness to test our ability to continue our meditation and personal conduct in life to the best of our ability. What GSD does or does not do or changes his ways from what one feels should be his behaviour has nothing to do with yours or my behaviour. We are solely responsible for our own thoughts and behaviours and what this person does should not be a place of judgement at all as we are all struggling souls on some path and wasting time trying to gauge what he did or is doing becomes merely a shallow excuse for us to succomb to the depressing side of the spiritual path. We do not know where in spirituality anyone else is and we are not helping ourselves to gain more enlightenment by spending eons of time trying to figure out what is or is not happening with GSD…get on with self discovery and look at ones own foibles and continue climbing the mountain…the true MASTER is WITHIN.

Yes, Gurinder is innocent, I agree. However, has it not dawned upon you that Anon is Gurinder?

My dear sweet dog, Marshall, a 125 lb Rottweiler is looking at me as if to say, “what could be so important on that device you have in your hand?” Puts things in perspective…
Everywhere you go, there you are. Know that you are wasting your time, you are wasting your time. Ommmmm

Why aren’t the singh brothers in jail yet?

Dears,
It’s not wasting my time to talk and discuss about the path I walked for over 50 years..
Its is good to digest, get insights in others also and from that.. seeing inside also in myself.
It really is helpfull
So one can sweep things away..
Of course being in the here and now..
In here and now I am digesting my life and ”my path”,now and then importantly.
Because the RS path had a great deal of impact on my life..
Very beautiful and sweet and learning etc..
Also with fears intens loneliness because nobody understood my problems and fears.
Also intens pangs of separation I had to undergo,missing Maharaji too much..
Sort of terrible ”homesickness”is what I had..
So yes talking and communicating is important at least for some.
My whole fam is/was satsangi’s here in the west..even with them I could not talk about
fears and doubds and insights I had.
So for some talking and digesting is very fine.

Some people are trying to get somewhere, and so consider this blog a waste. Of course the obvious question to them is, why even comment on here? Just do your meditation and continue with your faith. Commenting on here is counter productive for those people, because nothing you write will convince or convert anyone.
For the ex-ers its a healthy venting exercise and they can express their real feelings and perhaps discover something about themselves

“Yes, Gurinder is innocent, I agree. However, has it not dawned upon you that Anon is Gurinder?”
Sonya that’s the Best compliment ever ❤️

Dear Sonya
I thought Gurinder is innocent was Gurinder, not Anon. Holy Shit 😱

For once I agree with and find no reason to taunt or instigate any sort of frictional interaction with Osho Robbins.
Satsangis should be doing satsangi things and leave those of us who’ve left alone to complain and vent as we please. You’re not doing yourself or your guru any favors by getting into disputes with us. Plus, you’re all likely gonna go crazy and start riots in the next year or two in Delhi and Punjab and you need to prepare for getting slapped across your ribs with a lathi by police before sitting in Tihar jail for a couple weeks.

Anon is quite right. And it’s a bit ridiculous for others to demand answers from him on what Gurinder had to say.
If this matter is truly important to you, then go to the source. Go to Petaluma yourself this Summer and demand answers directly. If you’re not willing to do that, then you have no business demanding that satsangis do your sangat justice warrior work for you.

J, it was Anon who raised the issue of what Gurinder said in Singapore, not any of us RSSB skeptics. Blame her for lying, since she keeps claiming that the report I shared of what Gurinder said is wrong. But like religious believers everywhere, she is unable to back up her claim with even the flimsiest of evidence. Score: Skeptics 100; Believers 0. We win!

Anon, you need to tell everyone what you heard, as you are claiming it to be wrong. Even I have received that forward on Whatsapp from a verified source. You can’t just say the statements are wrong until you back it with the right ones. Grow up.

I don’t see any evidence from anyone on any side, full stop.
All I see is a lot 2nd hand hearsay accusations and allegations (propaganda). The courts will decide, until then it’s mostly just bullshit.
If you are going to attack someone’s beliefs, then guess what, they are likely to defend themselves – just as you would. Just because you are self-proclaimed churchless and atheists doesn’t mean you have no beliefs, quite the opposite, you have v strong beliefs, many of which sound like complete new-age “woo-woo” spiritual bullshit and conspiracy theories to proper atheists.
Fact is this blog is basically a platform for promulgating your own personal beliefs. No issue with that, but if you going to dish out, then at least have the balls (or intellectual honesty) to take it.

Hi J
You wrote
“If this matter is truly important to you, then go to the source. Go to Petaluma yourself this Summer and demand answers directly. If you’re not willing to do that, then you have no business demanding that satsangis do your sangat justice warrior work for you.”
I think you have things backwards.
No one is asking any Satsangi to represent their interests.
It is the opposite.
Satsangis devoted to the dogma expect their Guru to absolve them of all sin and mortality.
But Satsangis devoted to truth have a nearly overwhelming body of evidence that the Dhillons received hundreds of millions in fraudulent loans, much of which they haven’t repaid.
Some of us have no more questions about that.
As for those, such as yourself and Anon, who don’t actually believe any of the evidence available, there is most certainly nothing for you to do. If you are not nagged even a little by the criminality involved, that is your business.
But for those who love Gurinder and can’t understand how he could be any part of this, yes, after reviewing the available facts they may wish to ask him directly.
If that numbers in the thousands, then you will have thousands asking. That would be the honest thing to do for those who are unsure.
He has not posted any response, and the reports so far suggest he isn’t taking responsibility for anything, which many of us find typical. That is second hand or third hand reporting of course. But that is the only witness we have…. Except…
His public silence. That speaks volumes. It is deafening.

Gurinder Singh Dillon is a fake. If he is God in human form why does he need money. If he was God he could create money out of thin air. Instead of visiting these useless babas people could visit the real wonders of India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E23s8MmSjuQ

One more point to J, Anon and Gurinder Is…
Many of us here commenting on the fraud involving the Dhillons are initiated RSSB Satsangis devoted to the Path. That includes Brian Ji, Sonya and others. What we each have come to learn about Truth, each at our different levels of development, does not take away one single comma from that. The path of truth never changes, only our understanding of it.
We came to the path from different perspectives, and our experiences are different. What we understand about the Guru may be different. But it is fact based. And therefore we all remain Satsangis in the highest meaning any Master ever attributed to that state.

Hi GK
You wrote
“Gurinder Singh Dillon is a fake. If he is God in human form why does he need money. If he was God he could create money out of thin air.”
Apparently Malvinder and Shivinder did just that. They labeled the vapor capital “loans” and in true Enron accounting fashion, booked it as income, not debt.
Gurinder is God In Human Form exactly to the same degree you and I are, and every Saint and Sinner. We are made of this creation, and have its signature in every atom of our being.
We can learn to see the Lord in everyone, even our animal friends. For He is a power, not a personality.

Hi seeker
Like I said earlier and have repeated multiple times now this blog is not the place to discuss what happens in the Q and A sessions, atleast I won’t discuss it here. If you really want to know like J said attend the session and ask and get the answer for yourself. I merely messaged here to inform all the readers that what was reported to Brian and forwarded on WhatsApp is not what transpired.
You want to believe me….great. You don’t want to believe me…also great. My duty was to point out what’s not correct and that I have done.
There is so much talk about GIhF and Perfect Masters and all that here so I’m sharing this. Listen at your leisure.
https://youtu.be/vuD60iAErFQ

Oh and with regards to Brian’s message about skeptics being the winners and believers being the losers. As far as I know we are all winners. We are discussing/thinking/dreaming about the Master—-we all win.

Anon, please. Please, please, please. PLEASE. PLEASE. Oh, please, please please. Tell us what really happened. PLEASE. Oh, please, please, PLEASE. PLEEEEEEEZE. PLEEEEEEEZE.

Hi Anami and Anon
As a loyal Satsangi Anon cannot share what Baba Ji said without officially being assigned. That would place him in an official role, which, respectfully, he is not assuming. He is honoring his Master.
It is really up to Baba Ji to decide how best to fulfill his responsibilities.
And up to each of us to make up our own minds from the available information.
For me, the information is conclusive about his participation, but not about his exact role.
Yet that participation for a true Master, is a significant ethical compromise.
Which is why I encourage Baba Ji to step forward, take full responsibility visibly, and pay his debts.
This occurs to me…
All the principles involved in Fraud are either His initiates or bound by their beliefs to serve him as if they were.

Anon
You are sounding a bit like those Satsangis who make some cryptic comment about inner regions and when pressed, refuse to give details “because it’s not allowed”
The real reason they make no comment is because they have nothing but don’t want to admit that.
So in your situation you strongly deny what Brian has written. No problem with that. Maybe it’s not quite accurate,
But why will you not give your version to replace it.
Saying “go ask your own questions” is not an answer to what he said in that satsang.
Is there a reason for your refusal to say what you heard especially as nobody knows who you are.
People only hide something if they have a reason to hide it.
People who are open and honest have no reason to hide.
The only reasonable conclusion is you have something to hide. Just be honest or stop pretending to be honest

For me, the information is conclusive about his participation, but not about his exact role.
Yet that participation for a true Master, is a significant ethical compromise.

Dear Spence,
That has the worrisome ring of someone who says “everybody knows the
Baba’s up to his neck in this illegality but I won’t say it… I won’t say it… the
hell I won’t.” while landing an uppercut to the perp’s jaw.
After all, as a purported Guru, shouldn’t he have suspected those “lying’
eyes” of others, double checked those tax returns, read between the lines
of those flaky explanations of advisors well enough to know he was being
played?
Besides he hadda to have been apprised of the sale of the charity hospital,
the closure of the free school, the whispers of bad optics when the jet and
acreage was acquired. He’s clearly a greedy Guru who’s lost his way.
Could he have been bamboozled? Absolutely not. Did I mention he was a
businessman… with a Guru-role side gig. His superpowers are untold. So, if
you believe he wasn’t totally aware of the scams, then you’re a hopeless
sap, who having eyes, refuses to see.
But, what if a trusted adviser from the usual suspects pool did just that. Ran
a three card monte on him. It has happened again and again, all the way
back to the poison apple. How can we rule out “bad stuff” happening to
Guru’s?
Shamas Tabriz was flayed alive. Christ was crucified, Great Master died of
cancer. Gurinder was treated for it as well. Couldn’t he be a hapless victim
of financial fraud too?
So, why not come clean with what he knows? Maybe he doesn’t know the
details? Or maybe the family attorney counseled him to remain silent. Should
he disregard him? Emulate the Donald and go on a tweet storm? Would the
press or the armchair lawyers and their posse believe him if he did?
We could of course depend on the courts to sort this out. But, that won’t satisfy
the rabid mad dogs who cite judicial corruption, or a deep state, or the
conspiracy theory du jour. They know better than us all.

When men raped choir boys and nuns for years, decades, centuries…
People saw. People knew. But they had one single excuse that corrupted them and kept them from their duty as human beings…
“They haven’t been tried in a court yet.”
When dozens of neighbors herd Kitty Genovese scream for help for hours as she was stabbed and raped and lay bleeding to death they did nothing.
Asked why they replied, “We were certain someone would certainly have called the police if she really needed help.”
Use what God have you and take your responsibility as a human being.

What is really shameful about how this is being handled is that the Sangat hasn’t taken action. It is their duty to intervene.

“He said to them, ‘The Scriptures declare, ‘My Temple will be called a house of prayer,’ but you have turned it into a den of thieves!'”
Matthew 21:13.

Hi s*,
Appreciate you sharing that. I can see how growing up attending Satsang at Beas in the mornings would be scary. The message is rarely uplifting. It’s more like Jesus, God! how much more of this do I have to endure???
At the morning meetings I usually didn’t turn on my translation device or left it in my room because the Satsang was so depressing. Anyway, I guess that’s pretty harsh criticism…

Thanks Anon for the video, you know Ishwarji initiated me into this path. I want the path to be true, have so many doubts. I wish the truth that I am seeking will be revealed to me.

Hi seeker. After a few decades on the path, I can honestly say that we fall into the trap that we’re expecting something, especially externally, or form another “force”. Truth be told, it’s the easy way out. I came to this conclusion myself only recently.
No one is going to do anything for you, me, or anyone else. Pick a method that attracts you, appeals to you, do your best, and live a full, happy, engaged and honest life. That’s all you can do.
I found I was unintentionally playing the victim or “waiting for an epiphany” to strike me over the head. Not gonna happen.
Live a good life and stop worrying about all the peripheral stuff. Trust me, you’ll be happier and the people around you will consequently be happier as well. Despite all the nonsense, you have control over your thoughts and the ability to be a positive being. Engage.
Cheers!

People saw. People knew. But they had one single excuse that corrupted them and kept them from their duty as human beings…
“They haven’t been tried in a court yet.”
…
Use what God have you and take your responsibility as a human being
…
What is really shameful about how this is being handled is that the Sangat hasn’t taken action. It is their duty to intervene

Brian has succeeded admirably in reporting the issues and warning of
the danger of blind belief. It’s now up to those listening to examine the
evidence, demand answers, and not to become guilty bystanders.
But, to descend to the level of vigilantism by declaring we all need to
intervene further is an overstep. What could be done? Picket RSSB
satsangs with signs demanding GSD’s removal, flood RSSB with angry
letters, leave the practice and invent a newer one, hold an election
to install a more carefully vetted, palatable Guru?
That ignores our own fallibility. The courts need to weigh in first at a
minimum. There is criminality but sexual assault victims aren’t on the
sidewalk screaming, storm troopers aren’t taking people away in the
night.
If GSD’s convicted, he should certainly step down. Should a cloud
hang over him in spite of acquittal, anyone can elect to follow an
alternative path. As Ishwar Puri reports Great Master told him: you’re
free to follow whatever you want. But please if you find something
better, come back… tell me and I’ll follow it too.

Seeker it’s good to know that Ishwar Puri initiated you. With regards to wanting the path to be true I think a true seeker will always find the right path for them. May not happen at first but eventually you will go where your seeking leads you. I know your master (Mr Puri) has said this in his talks multiple times. He was also a seeker all his life but eventually realized that the path he was initiated into by great master was right for him. Don’t worry about right path or wrong path (I believe there isn’t just 1 path anyways) it’s what’s right for you. Good luck dear co traveller. 😊

Sins of commission, sins of omission, Dungeness.
When you see compassion, support it.
When you see fraud and theft, use your voice to acknowledge it.
This is a personal responsibility.

I’m happy that I was a satsangi for many years, from my early twenties to my fifties, and I still stick to the principles.
As to “People saw. People knew” and “the Sangat hasn’t taken action. It is their duty to intervene” and “This is a personal responsibility”…
What nonsense. Talk about shame and blame! Each person is entitled to work out their own faith and beliefs. Its simple, take back one’s own personal power and then leave without feelings of animosity and revenge. To each their own.

Hi Jen
You wrote
“What nonsense. Talk about shame and blame! Each person is entitled to work out their own faith and beliefs. Its simple, take back one’s own personal power and then leave without feelings of animosity and revenge. To each their own.”
Revenge and animosity are not a part of this at all. Those aren’t my words.
My words are acknowledge the problem and encourage rehabilitation, with forgiveness, helpfulness and Ahimsa as the goal.
It seems to me that for some people acknowledging wrong doing is such a painful, terrible thing that it could only be through anger.
That is just bad parenting. Good parents help their children understand that we all make mistakes and every day, and it’s natural and understandable. But sometimes we don’t see it. We think we’re fine.
Then someone else helps us understand that it was wrong.
And then we should not react emotionally or defensively. We are all the same. But our duty is to acknowledge our mistake and make effort to change our ways.
If all we think is that making a mistake is a terrible thing then I think that is a personality that will blame others rather than accept responsibility. Because it is too painful for them to admit their own mistakes.
Everyone around us, if there is love, will accept that we all make mistakes and help us to stop doing so where those mistakes are visible and hurtful, but where we may not see it.
Like stealing hundreds of millions of dollars. That is a bad thing.
But that requires feedback and acknowledgement to stop from our friends and family, sometimes, as is clear by the continuing secretive behavior, and the unwillingness to acknowledge and make payment arrangements.
Acknowledging when we have erred, and acknowledging when we are making progress.
Anyone in the Sangat could have said, “Baba Ji, we all need to pay our bills, and people are repossessing some of your stuff. Are you sure taking more loans is a good thing? Just setting up more shell companies is making it worse, not better. Your cousins, wife and sons love you and will do as you ask, but is this really the responsible thing to do? ‘
We have to help each other Jen, and that doesn’t work if we can’t be honest with each other about our faults and errors.
Don’t think Master and Disciple.
Think one friend to another.
Think’ Family Intervention’.
Baba Ji, put down the real estate brochures.

When you see compassion, support it.
When you see fraud and theft, use your voice to acknowledge it.

I salute those who speak up… early and often. It helps
so many of us break our silence.

“Thanks Anon for the video, you know Ishwarji initiated me into this path. I want the path to be true, have so many doubts. I wish the truth that I am seeking will be revealed to me.” – From Seeker (see above)
People desperately want to believe their path is true, simply because they want to be SAVED!
“Saved” means different things to different people. A christian wants a place in heaven. A RSSB follower wants to have inner darshan and reach the heights of the inner regions to Sach Khand.
Any vision, any hint of a dream is taken to be confirmation that the path is true – because they desperately want it to be true.
It is an illusion based on fear. Nobody wants to die – so why not believe that “I will survive?”
This site provokes that fear and the believer wants to attack because deep down all he has is a belief and he doesnt want anyone to question that belief.
A bit like when you have an unresolved issue and “don’t want to talk about it” because talking means you have to address the thing you are running away from.
There is comfort in numbers – so people hang around people of the same faith do they can get comfort and convince themselves that “We can’t ALL be wrong”
but they can! Believing a delusion with more people involved doesn’t make the delusion true

Hi Sonya,
Idd I did not listening to morning satsangs also.
I still love devotional shabd singing..

Spence, no person on this earth is perfect. You seem to be obsessed with perfection. Those who seek perfection unfortunately become very critical and judgmental in their attitudes. Who are you to complain about this guru who has thousands of followers to clean up his act, especially when all you have is hearsay and also he is not even hearing you. Anyway, its your problem and you will never stop nagging. Why not try “allowing” just allow other people to think and believe what they want because its none of your business anyway.
You say “My words are acknowledge the problem and encourage rehabilitation, with forgiveness, helpfulness and Ahimsa as the goal.”
Wow, I’ve never met a satsangi who speaks like you, wanting to discipline the Master! Why don’t you just go back to your Church and keep on preaching there.
You say: “It seems to me that for some people acknowledging wrong doing is such a painful, terrible thing that it could only be through anger.”
Man, you are so twisted! No, its not anger, its annoyance reading your dictatorial, preachy, holier than thou statements. Actually I can’t even bother to read the rest of your rant.
Like I have said before I no longer see myself as a satsangi and am still a vegetarian, no alcohol or drugs, live a moral life. I am actually very grateful that I followed this path of Sant Mat even though I no longer put someone on a pedestal or believe in a Master. I also realise that I will definitely never hear words such as “grateful” from Mr Social Justice Warrior Spence.

Hi Jen
You wrote
“Spence, no person on this earth is perfect. You seem to be obsessed with perfection.”
No not at all. We are all here to help each other. No one is perfect, and that’s OK. But letting people harm one another isn’t right. Are we not or brother’s keeper? Especially, when with a little help we can all do better, that’s the right thing to do. Judging people is static. Helping people uses discrimination, but not to blame, but to bring us all together on a platform of mutual respect.
“Those who seek perfection unfortunately become very critical and judgmental in their attitudes.”
Yes, and you can see for yourself.
But Jen we are all as perfect as anything else in creation. Progress, not perfection. Do not let the perfect become the enemy of the good. No one has to be perfect to make progress. Even guru can learn. Indeed, a leader should always be the role model of the good student.
You wrote
“Who are you to complain about this guru who has thousands of followers to clean up his act, especially when all you have is hearsay and also he is not even hearing you.”
Jen, why not do a thought experiment? Pretend for a moment that everyone is just a person. There is no high or low. No great leader or tiny follower. Just people. Now one person, whom we love dearly, has piled up several lifetimes of debt. That’s already a matter of fact, not hearsay. So let’s acknowledge it and move forward, as a family.
“Anyway, its your problem and you will never stop nagging. Why not try “allowing” just allow other people to think and believe what they want because its none of your business anyway.”
Jen you are suggesting I’m not allowing something. Just ask yourself where this comes from. It can’t come from me. I’m just forwarding links to evidence and offering assistance.
As for gratitude, that is the basis for wanting to help.
I have loved Baba Ji for a very long time.
But the love of those who cannot think for themselves and won’t risk saying what is evident may have made things worse for our brother.

“Spence, no person on this earth is perfect. You seem to be obsessed with perfection.”
This is especially funny considering that we’re all talking about a man with the self given title of Perfect Living Master.
I asked Frank Vogel once why he was attracted to RSSB and he said more than once that “everything he does is perfect.”
I wanna get feedback from the big shots in RSSB. Do they think Gurinder is perfectly pulling off a heist? Is he perfectly deflecting honest questions? Did he perfectly select perfect criminals to give him perfect loans with which he’d perfectly squander on perfectly idiotic investments in a perfectly horrible real estate market?

Hi Jesse
I think here is a good example, on this issue of perfection.
Shell companies are created to avoid legal responsibility. If something goes wrong the corporation carries the liability not its owners. At least do long as no criminal activity can be uncovered, which is what has happened.
But ethically, it’s very transparent.
So when Shivinder resigned from the boards of six shell companies that were laundering funds to the Dhillons, he was legally absolved of much of the responsibility, or so he thought.
But not the ethical responsibility, not the moral violation of fraud, falsification, and robbery.
So, perhaps this was the ‘Perfect’ crime. And the mastermind a ‘perfect’ criminal?
But not from a moral perspective.
Perfection is generally overrated, and in almost all cases overused.

Now one person, whom we love dearly, has piled up several lifetimes of debt. That’s already a matter of fact, not hearsay. So let’s acknowledge it and move forward, as a family.

Gosh, is that naughty “one” the Dhillon family…or the Singhs… or
Godhwani?
Or perhaps it’s the whole RSSB flock now that’s really the big picture?
In that case, one of our own can shepherd the little lost lamb back
to pasture and we can “move forward as a family”.
Have we truly winnowed the “usual suspects” pool back down to
“Mr. Big” again? Oops, forgot It’s “already a matter of fact”. There’s no
need to wait for those pesky, slow courts to weigh in.
We know who’s guilty! The wise among the herd will bleat the verdict
with us right now. Say it loud and proud. Bang that drum. We got a
soul to save.
P.S. We’ll have an “Intervention” for our black sheep… just like those
nasty humans do. Sing it! :
“Baa baa, black sheep, have you any loot?
Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full.
One for Shab’, one for me, Sunny makes three.
But,hey, none to Shiv’ ‘n Mal up the street!
Baa, baa, black sheep, what’ll ya do?
Yes sir, yes sir, I’ll return it all!
Thank ya, thank ya… I was headed for a fall.
And “I luv ya” to all my flock… big and small.

Hi Dungeness
Yes that’s the idea. Return the money or make a plan to do so. That’s all the courts want.
If one million of us each donated $1,000 the debt would be washed away in a fortnight.
But to help assure the addiction is overcome, transparency, and public acknowledgment and accountability is required as part of the intervention.
And then all is restored. We are all as brothers and sisters again focused on the light. And Baba Ji and each of us can get back to our day jobs.
If the Sangat is truly about love, real love, then what is the delay?
A court will only do harshly and poorly what encouragement, accountability and transparency by family, friends and associates serious about getting things back on track can do much more effectively if they come together.

And Dungeness, one more point.
Let this be the perfect model for how problems are solved within the Sangat and among all Satsangi families.
Not by the rough accountability of courts, but by the honesty and accountability of family and friends who, together, intervene and demand honesty, acknowledgement, and effort to overcome, while supporting their brothers and sisters through rehabilitation to restoration.
It is the unwillingness of people to step forward and intervene that forces police, courts and jails to act as the flawed substitutes.

And Dungeness, one more point.
Let this be the perfect model for how problems are solved within the Sangat and among all Satsangi families.
Not by the rough accountability of courts, but by the honesty and accountability of family and friends who, together, intervene and demand honesty, acknowledgement, and effort to overcome, while supporting their brothers and sisters through rehabilitation to restoration.
It is the unwillingness of people to step forward and intervene that forces police, courts and jails to act as the flawed substitutes.

The perfection of the Master is reflected in the conduct of the Sangat.
So let the Sangat start acting perfectly, in this and all matters.
Let’s not let another act of harm witnessed by Satsangis and any one in any family remain hidden and unresolved every again. No matter who commits that harm.
Let the first duty of each of us be to act and intervene with love, and honesty, and expectation and support for rehabilitation, and forgiveness, when any harm is done to anyone.
You can’t call the Master perfect without a perfect ethic.
But if there is a perfect ethic then there is no need to pretend anyone is perfect. To pretend the Master is perfect requires lying and loses the whole point.
But a perfect ethic we can all come together to strive towards, with the leader as the most visible student.

Not by the rough accountability of courts, but by the honesty and accountability of family and friends who, together, intervene and demand honesty, acknowledgement, and effort to overcome, while supporting their brothers and sisters through rehabilitation to restoration.
It is the unwillingness of people to step forward and intervene that forces police, courts and jails to act as the flawed substitutes

But Spence, however well-intentioned families are, they’re no substitute
for codified law and courts. The criminal excesses of the Mafia, vigilantes,
and various cults provide stark reminders of what happens without a legal
bulwark against DIY ideas of “justice”.
Notwithstanding rogue states, courts provide the tools, the expertise, and
impartiality to weigh evidence, rule fairly in accordance with established
law, and to protect institutions and people from those who think they’re
above the law. Many of the latter will never be helped by interventions.
I agree Intervening can certainly be good in limited circumstances within
a family unit. But, tacitly pronouncing a subject “guilty” after reading a
few news reports and declaring them ripe for intervention is hardly
“support and forgiveness”. It’s more like the slippery slope to “shaming”,
by religious courts, ostracizing, or denouncing, even burning at the
stake, however figuratively, to purge them of demonic forces.
Conflating allegations with facts isn’t persuasive either. Let the courts do
their job.

Spence you say: “So let the Sangat start acting perfectly, in this and all matters…
But if there is a perfect ethic then there is no need to pretend anyone is perfect. To pretend the Master is perfect requires lying and loses the whole point.
But a perfect ethic we can all come together to strive towards, with the leader as the most visible student.”
Spence, you talk about ethics and morals and perfection and striving.
Brother you are trapped in this belief of perfection. It would be nice for you to lighten up a bit and just let go.
I don’t like striving. Each of us has their own personal power. I prefer being a free spirit and letting go…
Dance, when you’re broken open.
Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance when you’re perfectly free.
Rumi

Hi Jen
I do like driving for a goal. I like moving forward.
The goal may not be perfect, actually it’s a human goal.
But the idea of placing a goal above anyone helps keep us all humble.
Having a goal actually is a humbling thing, X especially if it is unattainable.
Then set are forced to either abandon the goal…
Or take a look at our own progress. And progress, to me, is all that matters.

Dance, when you’re broken open.
Dance, if you’ve torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance when you’re perfectly free.
Rumi
This is meditation. Calligraphy of the heart. We write using the brush of Simran upon the paper of Bhajan. And the more ink we lay down, the more paper unscrolls… We are dancing with the paper, and the brush in our hands is the Simran we speak internally…
The brush, the ink and the paper are in a love affair, constantly moving, constantly in motion, each gentle climax leading onward to the next.

Spencer – ‘If one million of us each donated $1,000 the debt would be washed away in a fortnight.’
Yeah right why don’t we also lend $1000 to the thousands of ‘poor’ villagers who follow RSSB, so that they can help pay off the outstanding debt!