Following is a report Osho Robbins sent to me of what happened after he used his phone to record five minutes of audio at a meeting of Radha Soami Satsang Beas in RSSB's Haynes Park center in England.
It's long, so you'll need to click on the continuation link to read the full tale. Here's some definitions of a few words Robbins uses in his report. "Satsang" is a spiritual talk. "Baba Ji" refers to the RSSB guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon. "Sevadar" is a volunteer. "Seva" means volunteer service.
What I find most interesting about this saga is how it illustrates the dangers of religious rigidity and dogmatism. The problem with Robbins using his phone to record part of a talk could have been handled smoothly in a few minutes if the Radha Soami Satsang Beas volunteers had acted like normal human beings rather than religious robots.
Instead, their fanaticism led them to believe that a rule against audio recordings was an edict from God, since the RSSB guru is believed by devotees to be God in Human Form. So RSSB volunteers (sevadars) often become irrationally fanatic about carrying out their assigned tasks.
As weird as this may sound to non-religious people, it's much as if Jesus returned to Earth and asked some devout Christians to serve him in certain ways. Is there any doubt that they'd obey with gusto, viewing this as service to God?
The downside, of course, is that since it's virtually certain God doesn't exist, bad things are done in the name of religion for purely human reasons. As you will read below, the RSSB volunteers Robbins encountered were willing to lie, cheat, and steal in the name of service to their guru.
This makes it wholly believable that other volunteer sevadars were willing to do even nastier stuff, as has been alleged by two people who claim that associates of the RSSB guru made death threats against them (see here and here). Thus I find what happened to Osho Robbins consistent with the attitude of a disturbingly large number of RSSB devotees.
Whatever I'm asked to do, if the order comes from the guru, or flows from the guru's directives, I'll do it, whether or not I have to act unethically or wrongly.
Read on…
————————
"Crime of the Century"
Osho Robbins caught red handed recording 5 minutes of satsang of the English speaker before the Q&A session. Charged with two offences: bringing phone into the tent and recording 5 minutes of audio. Case heard informally and further evidence fabricated to add another offence: threatening to kick a sevadar in the “nuts”.
Result: made to wait 3+ hours for his phone to be returned
Sentence: Unlimited Ban from ALL satsangs worldwide until further notice.
It’s an ordinary Friday morning at Haynes Park. It's the start of the National satsang programme. Osho Robbins is about to discover what happens when you “break the rules” at RSSB.
It started with a crime – that Osho Robbins committed. Let's call it "The Crime of the Century".
He recorded the english speaker before Baba Ji's satsang for 5 minutes.
Well technically it was two crimes:
1. Taking the phone in to the satsang hall (many do it – but it's against the rules)
2. Recording the English speaker for 5 minutes. Not sure why this was an issue as it was not even Baba Ji’s voice that was recorded
A quick perusal of You Tube will show that Baba Ji’s satsangs have not only been previously recorded by others but also been uploaded onto You Tube. So this was really a “non-offence” compared to the actions of those who uploaded all those audios of the satsangs.
Let's start at the beginning.
Osho Robbins arrived for the Friday satsang. He went to the back of the tent. Mobile phones are not allowed, but no big deal is made of the matter and there are no sevadars searching or even caring if anyone takes their phone in.
There must literally be hundreds of them in the tent. Not a single person asked Osho Robbins if he had a phone on his person.
Osho Robbins had his mobile phone with him, turned into airplane mode. The purpose was to be able to stay in contact with various people at the end of the satsang.
As it happens, the English speaker was saying some interesting things, so Osho Robbins decided to press the “record” button, not knowing that all hell was about to break loose.
So pause for a moment and use a little logic.
What is so horrendous about that? He decided to record it so he could listen back to it later. How exactly is that going to be a problem for anyone else on the planet?
Seriously, why would it be anyone’s concern? Did anyone get hurt? Is it a security risk? It's not even the voice of Baba Ji, but the speaker before the satsang, and it's for his own private listening after the satsang. By no stretch of the imagination can this be considered a major issue.
Yes, technically “the rules” were broken – but no harm was done to anyone. As you will see later, the sevadars will commit much bigger crimes as the events unfold. To name a few:
Lying, deceit, forcing another sevadar to lie, stealing the phone and illegally keeping hold of it for approximately 5 hours.
As Osho Robbins was recording, the phone fell on the floor and a sevadar pounced on him, "Ah – you have a mobile phone”. He asked Osho Robbins to step outside the tent while he went to get “backup".
So Osho Robbins stepped outside. What happened next was more like what you might see in a movie, than in a spiritual satsang. The sevadars seem to think it was a major crime to break the rules. Osho Robbins said "I will delete the files in front of you".
"No – give us the phone and WE will delete them, we have to make sure we delete them all."
Saying that, they snatched the phone from Osho Robbins and deleted the files. Not satisfied, they wanted to know if the files had been uploaded to the cloud.
"What cloud?" Osho Robbins asked, wondering why they are taking things so far over 5 minutes of audio recording that was not even of Baba Ji. They checked and decided it had not been uploaded, but kept hold of the phone, despite Osho Robbins asking for his phone back.
By then a more senior sevadar turned up and asked the classic question: "Do you know who I am?" Osho Robbins replied quite honestly, "I have no idea."
Obviously the "sevadar" had delusions of grandeur, the exact opposite of what seva should be about. And he obviously had a short-term memory problem, and kept forgetting his own name, hence the question, "Do YOU perhaps know who I am?"
Osho Robbins resisted the temptation to tell him "You are the ONE" or "Best to ask Baba Ji”.
The sevadar handed the phone to the senior sevadar. For clarity, we will call this senior sevadar, sevadar #2. Remember this is the one with delusions of grandeur who keeps forgetting “Who he is”.
Osho Robbins calmly asked for his phone back.
The ego-filled sevadar #2 refused to return the phone, saying it would go to the "IT Dept" to get checked. and be returned at the end of the satsang. This was ridiculous behaviour and also illegal. There was no audio of Baba Ji so why the big drama?
Osho Robbins explained that he was there with his cousin who also had a child with him as well as his wife. And since he did not want to waste their time, he (Osho Robbins) would leave Haynes Park immediately if that is what it would take to get his phone back.
For some reason the sevadar #2 would not agree to this reasonable request. That would have been the most reasonable way to resolve the matter.
"It's my personal property. I would like it back now please and if you want me to leave, I will leave Haynes Park immediately." said Osho Robbins, clarifying his position.
"You will get it back after the satsang." insisted the sevadar with delusions of grandeur.
"No – I want my phone back now, please" insisted Osho Robbins "and I will leave Haynes Park. It's my property and you have no legal basis to keep it or tamper with it”.
There was no raising of voices, no threats by anyone. However, Osho Robbins was simply firm in his request to be given his phone back, which was a very reasonable request, especially as he was offering to leave the site and wait outside Haynes Park.
"I do have the right to retain your phone" replied the sevadar, "You broke the rules and recorded the satsang and now your phone will be examined”.
It is indeed unfortunate that Osho Robbins had to resort to the legal position to ask for his legal rights to be upheld, but it seemed there was no other alternative. The sevadar #2 clearly had no respect for his legal rights.
The sevadar #2 put the phone in his pocket and now the lies began.
The senior sevadar now stated that he no longer had the phone on his person. "It's in your pocket" said Osho Robbins. The sevadar showed him his pocket and there were two phones there, neither of which were his.
"Well where's my phone?" asked Osho Robbins, now getting a little concerned, because the sevadar #2 now had his iPhone X worth over £1000 and it seemed to have disappeared, and he was sure he had come to satsang, not a magic show.
"It's been checked in and you can retrieve it at the end of the satsang" said the sevadar #2.
"But I just explained to you that I wish to leave Haynes Park right now"
"Well you can leave anytime you choose, but we will retain your phone and you can collect it another time" replied sevadar #2.
"I am not leaving without my phone, so show me exactly where it is so I don’t get delayed at the end of the satsang" suggested Osho Robbins.
Osho Robbins also insisted on a receipt for the phone, and the sevadar wrote his own name and the name of another senior sevadar on the hand made paper receipt. Osho Robbins asked him to sign it and took the receipt with him.
A different sevadar accompanied Osho Robbins to the "information and lost property point" where the phone had allegedly been checked in. However, once they arrived there, they said they did not have the phone.
"Well where is my phone then?" asked Osho Robbins, now getting even more concerned by this new turn of events.
"Well it could be checked into either of two places,” replied the helpful English lady at the information point. One of those places was right across from the information point.
"Please tell me where my phone is, or return it to me, as I wish to leave,” said Osho Robbins, as the situation was now getting out of hand.
"Maybe the senior sevadar has it in his pocket,” suggested another lady in the office.
This was no longer a joke and completely unacceptable. The sevadars were now acting illegally and could well steal his phone. There was now no other alternative than to involve the police if Osho Robbins wanted a safe recovery of his phone.
"Unless you can give me my phone back, I am going to call the police" said Osho Robbins.
Obviously, they could not return what they didn't have and they could not even tell Osho Robbins for sure exactly where his phone was. Osho Robbins asked to use a phone to call the police, but they refused to help.
"There is a public phone across the road,” said the English lady, pointing to a sign that said "Public Phone”.
"Can I have some change as I don't have any money with me?" asked Osho Robbins.
To her credit, the English lady gave him some loose change for the phone. Then someone pointed to a police vehicle already on site.
Osho Robbins returned the money and went over to the police van. The sevadar who had accompanied him suggested that he not involve the police.
"But my phone is missing and nobody is telling me where it is,” said Osho Robbins. "If you can retrieve my phone so I can leave Haynes Park in peace, please do so and I will not involve the police as I have no desire to escalate this matter. I simply want my phone back”.
The sevadar could not comply because it was in the hands of the sevadars higher up and the lower sevadars have no power. All they do is obey the orders of their superiors.
The sevadar left and Osho Robbins approached the police vehicle, still unable to believe that things had deteriorated this far in RSSB that he had to resort to police assistance in order to retrieve his own property. This was a far cry from the RSSB organisation he knew as a child.
Osho Robbins then explained the situation to the police.
The police said that it was illegal for them to hold onto his phone or tamper with it. They said that even they themselves had no powers to examine anyone's phone unless they could link it to an actual crime. Even then they may need a court order.
They explained to Osho Robbins that his phone had been technically "stolen" if they were keeping hold of it without his consent. Three officers accompanied Osho Robbins to the lost property and information point and took charge of the situation.
They insisted that the phone be returned immediately. The lady in the office said "He knows the rules and he broke them. There are notices everywhere stating that phones are not allowed”.
"That may be the case, but what you are doing is a crime. You are not allowed to hold his phone without his permission. It is theft to do so. If he has broken your rules, he is happy to leave the site, but he is entitled to have his phone returned before he leaves."
Another sevadar then said that the senior sevadar had it in his pocket and said he would go get him and be back in 10 minutes. The police said they would wait for 10 minutes. Twenty minutes later and he still had not come back.
Instead an older mature gentleman who seemed to be in charge explained to the police that the man (sevadar #2) had the phone in his pocket and the meeting was already in session and could not be disrupted.
He offered to take them there to show that it is "pindrop silence" and impractical to disturb the religious meeting. He said that he would personally assure the phone is returned at the end of the meeting (satsang).
I said, "I can guarantee that if there was an incident now, all of those people would get called on the two way radio devices and be out here within minutes." All these were simply excuses but the police didn't want to cause any conflict, especially as the sevadars were taking responsbility for the safe return of the phone immediately after the satsang.
Just then the sevadar who had originally taken the phone from Osho Robbins turned up. He insisted that his name be written on the receipt as the person responsible instead of the other two names.
"Since I first took the phone, I am the responsible person in case anything happens to the phone."
"What might happen to the phone?" asked Osho Robbins, surprised by this new turn of events.
"I don't know. I have just been sent to put my name down as the responsible person."
“Who sent you?” asked Osho Robbins. He referred to sevadar #2.
Osho Robbins explained to the police that he suspected his phone will likely go missing because that is the only reason to get this other sevadar to become the responsible person.
"The sevadars higher up are trying to get their name removed now because it has now become a police matter and they don't want their names involved." explained Osho Robbins to the police.
The police, however, had no idea how devious the sevadars were, as clearly there was no reason to change any names on the receipt if the phone was simply going to be handed back. In fact there was no reason the phone could not be returned immediately, if there was no plan to cause Osho Robbins further aggravation.
The sevadar who was now wanting to put his name on the receipt was desperate not to lose his seva and he kept saying "I don't want to lose my seva over this”.
Also he did not raise any other matter with the police, despite later making allegations of threats by Osho Robbins later on.
At that moment, the cousin's wife just happened to turn up with her son and witness the whole incident. The original sevadar told her also that "he doesn't want to lose his seva", and was almost in tears.
Osho Robbins explained to her exactly what had happened and that if he was not back at the car, he will be waiting there at the lost property and information point for his phone.
The police said that the phone should be returned immediately after the satsang and told Osho Robbins that if it is not returned, he should phone 101 and explain that his phone had been stolen and that they were witnesses to the whole incident.
At that point they had to leave as they were on traffic duty and the satsang was now over so vehicles would start to leave Haynes Park soon.
Osho Robbins told the police that he would be very surprised if they simply returned the phone after the satsang. They said, "If they don’t, then report it as theft, because they have promised to return it immediately after the meeting (satsang) and we have no reason to doubt them."
Well, Osho Robbins stood and waited for someone to come.
And waited and waited and waited. Finally at 12.50 the original sevadar who had taken the phone turned up and said that he would have his phone within 20 – 30 minutes.
Osho Robbins cousin had also arrived by this time and heard the sevadar say it would be no more than 30 minutes. But nobody came. Osho Robbins simply waited and waited.
Finally at around 2.30 a senior sevadar (I will call him sevadar #1) arrived in his car and called the original sevadar over. They chatted for about five minutes, then sevadar #1 drove off.
The sevadar walked towards Osho Robbins but still did not have the phone.
"We need to go to the office and the phone will be given to you there,” he informed Osho Robbins.
So Osho Robbins followed him to the office where sevadar #1 was waiting, together with sevadar #2 who was sitting on his left but further back.
Osho Robbins was going to ask sevadar #2 if he had figured out who he was yet, or if he still needed some more assistance on the matter, but common sense and caution prevailed instead.
Sevadar #1 was sitting in a chair and had just finished making a phone call. He called Osho Robbins over. Osho Robbins shook hands and sat down.
Just then Osho Robbin's cousin turned up and told sevadar #1 that he needs to speak to Osho Robbins briefly. Sevadar #1 graciously gave him permission.
After a brief discussion with his cousin regarding how much longer this is going to take, Osho Robbins returned.
"Why did you call the police?" asked sevadar #1 after asking a few preliminary questions.
Osho Robbins explained that he wanted his phone back and this was precisely why he called the police. He also explained that he had made it clear he would call the police if the phone was not returned immediately.
Sevadar #1 produced the phone and asked Osho Robbins to sign a statement to the effect that the phone had been returned in good order and undamaged, and also wanted the signed receipt back.
Osho Robbins complied with these formalities and was given the phone back.
Sevadar #1 then called the original sevadar over and asked him to check once again that the files have definitely been deleted. The sevadar started playing a different audio file on the phone.
“Why are you playing other files?“ asked Osho Robbins. “Because it says New Recording”as the name of the file” explained the sevadar.
Osho Robbins asked him to check the date as the recording was from a different date. Once satisfied that the files had been deleted, Sevadar #1 asked the sevadar who had originally taken the phone to explain exactly what had happened.
The sevadar explained briefly then he hesitated and said "I don't want to repeat the words he used”. Osho Robbins said "Go ahead and tell them what I said, as I said nothing to be ashamed of."
"He said he would kick me in the nuts”.
Osho Robbins was shocked that the sevadar would say that – as it was a complete lie and he had also spoken to him earlier and he was a pretty nice guy, but just afraid of losing his seva.
Osho Robbins denied saying those words and told sevadar #1 that it was totally out of character for him to say that.
Osho Robbins then realised exactly what had happened. Sevadar #1 had clearly ordered the original sevadar to make up that story, in order to give him ammunition for his next move. That was the purpose of the five minute meeting with the sevadar prior to this meeting. It all made perfect sense.
That also explained the sevadar’s hesitation, as he was deciding whether it's "right" to tell a lie in order to keep his seva.
So sevadar #1 said "Who do I believe? You, or the sevadar? I would rather believe the sevadar than you." "That's your call," said Osho Robbins, "but I am telling the truth." Of course sevadar #1 knew the truth anyway because he had told the other sevadar to lie.
“The thing is, this is not the first incident with you. There was an incident two or three years ago, so clearly, we are not going to get along”.
“So you can take your phone but I am banning you from satsang – all satsangs – local and national."
Osho Robbins really didn’t care at that point and took his phone and left Haynes Park.
Haynes Park
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Lawless and self righteous men with absolutely no power or status of any significance asking “do you know who I am!!?!?!” sounds a lot less like how things operate in religious circles, and a lot more how things operate in India. Like literally everywhere you go in India crap like this happens.
Some scrubby fat loser at the Indian Coffee House in Kolkata tried pulling this crap on me for not having exact change once. The dude completely flipped his lid as if I’d just brought a pack of dogs into his immaculate mansion who attacked his royal guests. “How dare you! Do you know who I am!” Dude was a high school graduate “manager” of a dirty coffee shop. Not a sevadar, president, king. A literal nobody.
But don’t let Spence know about any of this. He’s under the impression that everyone is the same and there’s one global culture and I don’t want to destroy the fantasy he’s built in his mind.
So when exactly did you get punched?
It seems you may have left the ‘action’ bit of the drama out?
Lawless and self righteous men with absolutely no power or status of any significance asking “do you know who I am!!?!?!
I agree totally!
Gee, ya know though… there was echo of it here recently.
Something about “Do you know who my father is!?”
Not quite the same I guess. We always cut kids a little more slack 😉
@Pema Tej
This was Friday satsang.
Sorry to disappoint you, but no punches on Friday.
Just my crimes which I apologised for to both the original sevadar, sevadar #2 and also at the meeting with sevadar #1.
Everything I did “wrong” I openly admitted to and apologised for.
What I didn’t do (threaten a sevadar) I flatly denied.
And I have to congratulate Jesse for his first comment in which he doesn’t call me a liar or worse. Maybe we’re becoming friends.
These are the events of Friday only.
Friday was fairly civil.
And One big upside.
I will go down in history and in the RSSB book of records ( not quite big enough to go into the Guinness one) as the only person banned from both giving satsang and attending it.
The ban is actually worldwide but this was not clarified to me until the next day when I sought clarification on the details of the ban.
Rules r rules.. go against them the suffer the consequences.
@Pema Tej. This is a description of just the events on DAY 1: Friday and of his phone being technically ‘stolen’ from him and of him being banned from satsang.
This description doesn’t describe how he came back the next day to attend Saturday’s satsang despite the ban, and was then assaulted.
This is just a description of DAY 1 and what the the ‘crime’ was that initiated two illegal acts by the UK RSSB satsangi sevadars on two different days: i.e. the genuine ‘crimes’ of theft and assault.
Rules are rules , who are u to troll about all these .
If he knew the rule , he should have followed it ,all the bhajans and songs are available at store .
Hi i donated a large sum to be used at eye hospital in Beas. The money was handed to Sam Busa .I later learnt it was used for renovation at Bush Hill.
Robert Hurwitz who claimed to be in charge of all donation told me he decides how d money is to b distributed. I requested it b sent to Beas for d eye hospital.
He said he will consider .that was d last i heard .numerous emails to him were not replied to . I suspect he used d money for his personal expenses
Wow
Bad boy Osho Robbins in the thick of it.
I’d say his behaviour of winding up all and sundry at Haynes Park backfired on him.
Lesson learnt.
No.
After being branded, he returned the next day.
Only to bore us to tears of what happened next.
Change the record please.
Please respect the rules where you go.
And also sorry for inconvenience from our side.
Radha Soami ji
Don’t mess with us.
We know how to lie and punch.
Warning to others: Don’t eat too many scones either. You have been warned.
Big Boss is watching us from the stage.
@ Osho Robbins
If the ban is world wide then what about inside?
Are you also banned from getting the visions of the Guru inside?
Will He come at your death?
Are you still a marked soul? Or are you unmarked soul now?
What about your entry pass to Radhasoami heaven?
I feel really sad for you. You lost so much for so little – recording mere 5 mins of some speaker’s satsang? Was it worth it? Why were you not a good sheep and just kept following the herd?
There are options..
Please check for membership at ‘original’ Radhasoamis at Agra?
Maybe they will not honor the ban?
There are still so many baba’s in the market.
Ram Rahim
Rampal
Asa Ram
Nithyananda
Ashutosh
Radhey Maa
Narayan Swami
Please be strong.
Dungeness I think you were kidding. I hope so at least.
The weird attitude of self importance usually disappears in a couple generations, which is awesome. Then the grandkids of the egotistical nobodies get to mix the bad qualities of postmodern nihilistic westerners into their own new blend of pathologies.
I find the ethnic and cultural angle of this mess far more interesting and relevant than the religious side, personally. Osho, the somewhat assimilated foreigner, the “nice English lady,” and the latest wave of immigrants who are of a significantly lower caliber than all the previous ones. The hijinks are enough to make a really depressing reality show.
Before I go.The ______s who keep writing “rules are rules” should understand that laws supersede rules and theft of property, physical assault and the like are available offenses. Be lucky your sevadar buddies didn’t spend some hours or days locked up. You’re not even thinking before you write what you’re writing.
made a typo last comment.
meant to write that theft and assault are jailable offenses.
Jailable may or may not be a real word. But it makes more sense than available.
@ Happyccino
What are the rules once someone is caught for recording satsang?
Lying and punching someone in the face?
All rules should be followed.., no cherry picking of rules.
Amrath,
And you too never bothered to get Dera’s involved in this? I don’t mean wrt your suspicion but end use of money.
Usually monies aren’t accepted with specific instructions about end use. It’s just not practical. Your best bet would have been donating to the Medical relief society or get Dera to agree receiving in ‘kind’; maybe a machine the Hospital uses or was in need of.
I have done something similar once in the past – some equipment which Dera was looking for.
Anyways lots of people donate in kind – grains, milk, cars, deploy their vehicles in seva etc etc.
But the Gents you named should have reverted.
One can say he can carry pistol in satsang as he has a valid license for it and it is his personal property and want it back.They don’t force you to come to satsang.We go there for our own spiritual needs so we should follow the protocol of that place.Rules are made with certain spirit behind them.Let smartphones are not allowed in a classroom and a student gives the excuse of carrying it to classroom that the lecture was so interesting he wanted to listen it later.It sounds good and then next time he may be using the same smartphone next time to watch some wrong on internet.This is called net of kaal.If one carries a pistol in satsang and says I am not going to use it (but used in this case),when you break the law you has to face consequences.
Hi Osho, seems like a v small petty matter built up to an extent of being punched and banned from attending future satsangs..Contradicting their own teachings of humility, compassion and forgiveness..Seems like regulations are the priority..Today Youtube is so convenient that seekers can enquire to their fill..Its high time for RS to upload their satsangs for the convenience of followers to listen to at any given time..It puzzles me that they do not take the advantage of the online..Lastly, rules are just guidelines and are always bendable..Its love that rules the world and never dictatorship..Loves Addy
Forcefully taken other mobile is wrong. Then again act like I will not return. In religious place if somebody’s follow not ruled then it’s good by respectfully saying that please don’t do it again. Here he is saying I will not return phone. Do whatever can do or wait. Not a caharacter of real sevadar.
@ Osho. You know what makes me laugh people writing about their law. Fuck their law!
They had no right to punch you.
Q: Can someone record you without your permission UK?
A: Recording a conversation in secret is not a criminal offence and is not prohibited. As long as the recording is for personal use you don’t need to obtain consent or let the other person know. … Journalists often record conversations in secret that they then publish without facing any legal problems.Jun 21, 2018
https://www.dma-law.co.uk/is-it-illegal-to-record-conversations/
Isn’t being banned a plus?
Perhaps one should kick a gift horse in the mouth?
Not being able to go to satsang is a blessing that shouldn’t cursed,
especially being saved from listening to such questions as “Am I even free to ask if I have a free will?”
“Or is it my karma to ask this question?”
Seen in a different light, being given a worldwide ban is clearly a sign that god is a merciful one!
Osho has been saved from the endless droning…..
We should all be so lucky.
@Daljit
I think the ban extents to at least the first and second region.
I will have to go back to the next satsang to find out if it extends beyond that to Sach khand also.
If it does then I will have to have a word with Kal, maybe he can give me a good position fairly high up in his region.
If all else fails so will have to create my own regions. Maybe do what Kal did and stand on one leg for a year. No way I can do it for millions of yugas like Kal.
I could set myself up as another baba, but what happens if I break my own rules, which going by my history is quite likely.
Will I have to ban myself?
And if I don’t honour the ban and just carry on, will I have to punch myself in the face? Or will I have to hire my own security team to do that part?
But wait..,.
Would the security team be authorised to punch me if I am the baba?
My god, this is so complicated.
You are not alone!! But the things is strictness is necessary for all the good things. Even the seradaar #1 #2 must have also suffered sometime in their duty for breaking the rule. So don’t be penic just remember the main thing don’t break rule anywhere you go especially for being highlights.
Dude why did you go to rssb at the first place ? If you don’t like them! And the second thing ! If you know phones are not allowed why being the nuisance and bringing Phone and allowing someone to take it from you ? Are you being naughty ? Hahahah stupid osho robbins! 🙄
Osho
As a first time reader it seems you are a master of seeking publicity for your attempts to get people to follow ‘your path.’
Causing deliberate trouble by breaking an organisations rules that you were clearly aware of is a crass way of obtaining followers. I have seen your confused rants on youtube. I don’t think your calculated disruptive behaviour will help you in your ultimate aim.
20,000 people manage to follow basic rules at a gathering to better humanity. It’s a shame you couldn’t muster up the maturity to respect simple requests.
Peter
Arjuna,
Absolutely right… They had no right to punch Osho. Nobody has a right to punch even if provoked.
Now do two wrongs make a right? You say you would punch back.
Also do the rules say Sevadars can punch someone caught with a phone and recording during satsang or if verbally threatened or in self-defense?
What are the rules? Why doesn’t somebody approach the Rep at Satsang today and ask a copy.
Why isn’t Osho taking the incident to it’s logical conclusion?
In this instance wherein lies the issue? At an institution level or some zealous (maybe arrogant) individuals?
I would also make a distinction between laws and rules. I don’t think anybody is writing laws in here or at Dera/centres. Rules/guidelines by Dera yes. I don’t think centres are allowed to make their own independent of Dera.
Worldwide ban of Osho- our centre has not received any advisory to this effect LOL.
OSHO ROBBINS, I REALLY FEEL FOR YOU. ITS THE VOLUNTEERS WHO ARE IDIOTS AND THERE IS NO ONE THERE, TO WHOM YOU CAN REPORT TO. I ALSO LIKE TO SHARE A PAINFULL EXPERIENCE AT RSSB HAYNES PARK.
Few years ago, I also went with a friend to RSSB Haynes Park. . I had my handbag with me. Didn’t realise, had my tweezer in the handbag. The woman didn’t want to let me in because I had a tweezer on me. There security is extremely strange. I was asked to leave the tweezer at their deposit point and collect it on the way back. I was so annoyed and asked what my tweezer would do in the satsang, they kept on repeating only one line robotically- Can not go in the satsang ground with the tweezer.Me and my friend both were fuming with anger. If I knew, I would have deposited along with my phone.
So I asked, if I can leave it with her and collect it later as there was a long cue on the deposit point. She refused and we had to get into the queue to deposit my tweezer.
Inside the satsang ground Sevadars steering at you. They are standing in each row and steering down at people like vultures. Just below the Dias, they have two sevadars sitting and having their eagle eyes on the people and if you are sitting close to them, you get such distraction because they are steering in everyone’s eyes. In their eyes the Sevadars are the only humans and all the visitors are criminals.
(My phone was deposited on the coach we came on. A sevadar collects everyone’s phone and keep it somewhere on the coach, so we don’t have to go to deposit point, just come to the coach and they give it back to you). On the way back, collected my little tweezer and headed back to coach. I asked for my phone back. She said, when coach leaves the premises (haynes park), the phones will be returned. Coach left the haynes park and we are on Motorway, asked for the phone back, the woman kept on going up and coming back empty handed and repeating, soon the phone will be given to you. I needed my phone. My friend fell asleep on the coach and I was angry and not sure what to do. They returned the phones finally, when coach dropped everyone in southall.
NEVER AGAIN TO HAYNES PARK. I DONT KNOW, HOW THEY ARE TAUGHT THE GUIDELINES. IT SHOUDL BE A PLACE OF RELAXATION BUT ITS A PLACE OF RUDE PEOPLE. NO DISRESPECT TO GURINDER SINGH DHILLON BUT HE SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT OSHO ROBBINS INCIDENT AND TEACH THESE VOLUNTEERS SOME MANNERS AND PEOPLE MANAGEMENT.
Yip
Mike England has got it right on the money.
I take it HSA is Jesse or Arjuna cos I suspect the big boss enjoys a scone. He looks like a cool dude.
Will this one be allowed? Free speech what a joke.
Ah yes mike and peter are sensible – they know what is cutting.
I was worried for the human race for a while there.
When you go to someone’s house, respect they rules.
If you abuse their rules, you deserve to face concequences.
Why not take responsibility of the wrong doing and blame a much loved path of RSSB with your insults?
He was a guess and welcomed with all care and respect.
A Sevadar who chose to be a sevadar with many years of research!
Will all the Radhasoami bhakts clear some doubts.
What happens to poor Osho now?
Will guru come to his death as pinky promised?
Is he still a marked soul with assured entrance to Radhasoami heaven?
Does the worldwide ban apply to inner regions also?
Or is Osho Kal in Human Form?
If he is then why was he allowed to speak at satsangs earlier?
What are THE rules?
Rana, many years ago when supermarkets were still to be invented, people bought there stuff in small shops. In these shops the “customer was the king”. Why? Because of the social control … if the word would spread in the community, that he or a servant had been rude, he could easily lose many customers.
These days now there is hardly social control and shops have become multinationals, there is no longer any need to deal with clients as “kings”.
Have a look around … in ANY organization that does not stand in the need of attracting customers, servants easily become rude and tend towards behaviour that can be seen in dictatorships.
See what has happend in the Rom. Cath. Church. Bringing into the public the misuse of power by clergy and the organizations they ruled, was 50 years ago IMPOSSIBLE. People did know about the misuse, all did but they kept mum out of fear for the q. These days now church after church has to close and only old people go to services, that fear has gone.
The religious organizations as we know them from India are in fact religious multinationals and has all the characteristics of such organization.
Let me make it clear … what I write is about the MIS/use of power … there is nothing wrong with organizations, their rules etc … nothing at all
Osho
That is clearly your goal – to set yourself up as a Baba – but you got no following.
You got a big yapper and like to hear the sound of it, a lot, which is unfortunate.
No one likes a cry-baby, suck it up, fk off and stay fkd off.
No more satsang for you.
Not only does that suit you but it makes the rest of us fking ecstatic.
one helluva party followed at Haynes mansion following the banning decree – I never seen sevadars party like that, some fine dance moves were cut, huge celebrations !
Let me clarify the rules:
‘No phones’, that’s what it means.
Complex I know.
Blame Kal or Geriatrix.
Does the sewadars of your current Guru punch you?
Lie to you?
steal your phone?
Make you wait for hours?
falsely accuse you to threatening to hit them in their nuts?
Are you sure that the Guru will still bring a welcome party at your death?
Does your Guru mark and then unmark your soul?
How many inner regions does your Guru say there are?
How fancy is his Dera?
How many political leaders visits his dera?
How much national and international real estate does your Guru own?
Come and check out our Baba… you won’t get punched in the face.
PS: Don’t worry if our Guru is in Jail it’s proof that he is the REAL Guru and that’s why Kaal has trapped him. He will be out soon.
@Daljit
Nope
No guru is coming at my death.
And I had lots of them and Nobidy is coming
Except the ONE but he/she doesn’t come. Or go.
And there is no place.
No time no space
No place to go
No soul to get marked.
No Kal; no Dayal.
to realise the ONE means nothing to seek, as there is no separate YOU.
This was just a little punch. Nothing of great significance. One day soon is coming God’s Punch, known as death
But death only exists in duality.
Bulleh shah says “I will not die, let another die”
Another means the body, not even “my” body.
The body, the soul etc is not “ mine”
Possession is an illusion.
How can you possess when you yourself are going to be gone? Where will you take all your possessions when you lose your body, your soul, everything
@georgy Porgy
You wrote
“That is clearly your goal – to set yourself up as a Baba – but you got no following.”
Have you not heard? Babaji is going to appoint me as the successor. And after one day I am going to abdicate cause it’s s lot of work.
“Then the grandkids of the egotistical nobodies get to mix the bad qualities of postmodern nihilistic westerners into their own new blend of pathologies.”
Jesse another crack-up comment. Humourously put and yet… poignant, even poetic and deeply moving …. 🙂
Likely a part of that dodgey set-up that also involves the triangulation and confiscation of mobile phones: The Default Mode Network.
A very pleasant day/evening to all.
Peter & George Porgy
Quite right.
Osho Robbins is an attention seeker supreme.
His comments over the years are the most inane things you will ever read.
The whole phone story sounds phoney, with lots of plot holes.
I’m surprised Brian blogs these Osho fictions. Probs because they are anti RSSB.
Jumped the shark!
Brian has jumped the shark with this Osho nonsense.
Osho
Before: you abused the rules by taking your phone and do the recording.
Now: you abuse the community by your unkind words/ blames/ judgments, eventhough you was the one who broke the rules.
Future: you probably abuse others/ Rs who try to remind you, your lesson!
And its go on…
I think, you need to take a look at the behaviour you take everywhere with yourself and make some correction there.
If you look the world with red glasses, you see the world in red color!
Hope it helps
If not happy with rules do not come simply
@Georgy Porgy
You forgot to answer the question I asked you before.
Have YOU ever broke any RSSB rules?
@Osho
John Lennon of Beatles fame after his long association with his Guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi said later
“There is no guru. You have to believe in yourself. You’ve got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It’s all down to you, mate.”
@sina
You wrote
“Before: you abused the rules by taking your phone and do the recording.
Now: you abuse the community by your unkind words/ blames/ judgments, eventhough you was the one who broke the rules.”
Please show me where I am blaming etc.
I have simply reported what happened.
Exactly the way it happened.
You be the judgry
Osho no amount of apologizing is enough.
Your heinous crime and blasphemy needs to be punished.
Stop this talk about ONE and Sant Mat TWO.ZERO
You are unable to follow our rules.
We want you to burn books of earlier RS Gurus and only buy sanitized and pasteurized recordings of the new Guru from our official store.
You keep reading and posting from our earlier teachings and pointing out the inconsistencies. This is confusing the herd. Do you want a stamped in our Satsangs?
Earlier Ranbaxy and then you… Kaal is so persistent.,, but we are ready with our fists.
“If not happy with rules do not come simply”
If the sevadars and Gurinder aren’t happy with the laws of the UK, they can simply go elsewhere and stop giving satsangs there.
They’re not providing any useful service to the country.
@Jo &those who say that if you break the rules then suffer the consequences.
You wrote
“Rules r rules.. go against them then suffer the consequences”
Really? You think it’s okay to break the law etc? Do two wrongs make a right.
I made no threats to anyone. All my actions were non violent but firm.
Just like Gandhi acted, I simply stood my ground, I stood up for my rights in a non violent way. No threats, no name calling. I simply asked for my phone back.
If Babaji was there in person, he would be on my side. He would return my phone.
In fact what surprises me more than anything is that sevadars can act in ways that so directly against what BabaJi teaches from stage.
Perhaps they attend a different satsang.
The Babaji that I have spoken to many times in public is not in favour of any violence and considers anyone who attends his satsang to be his personal guest. And the Punjabi mentality is to treat a guest as if they are God.
By the way – you are also breaking the “rules” by commenting on here as are the people who claim to be “sevadar association” or “Haynes Park …..” etc and who write comments that go directly against what their own guru advocates.
So then what consequences should you suffer for breaking the “rules”?
Of course you can say “I never harmed anyone” but clearly your comments are violent.
In the post and in my comments, I am simply pointing out what happened. I don’t seek revenge. I don’t attach any blame. I am not against any person involved, not even sevadar #1 or #2.
I have only stated the facts and exactly what happened. I stand by what I say and would say it in front of Babaji and in front of any committee. It is the truth.
However, I don’t seek any outcome. As Babaji correctly said “none of us are perfect”
That includes the sevadars and it includes me. I have apologised several times, in person, at the time, and also on here. I made the first mistake and I admit it openly. However I made no threats and acted in a civil and polite manner throughout even while I waited several hours for my phone to be returned. Hundreds of sevadars and many thousands of satsangis saw me patiently standing by the information and lost property point.
What is the point of spiritual satsang if we don’t live up to what we hear in satsang?
“Itne din satsang jo kiya kush bi asar na aus ka huya?” – sar bachan
So many days you have attended satsang, has it had no effect at all?
At some point we need to stop and evaluate where we are going
The Sikh gurus were the highest example of non violence right up to guru arjun dev.
When they later picked up the sword it was always on the side of righteousness and to help those were weak.
They never instigated violence. Six against one and unprovoked would be considered an act of violence.
The gurus were peaceful and never the instigators. Radha Soami stands for the same position of peace.
I like this by the nooran sisters
https://youtu.be/U-JsttFuRvE
“Purify your heart if you want to meet the YAAR (god)”.
“Osho no amount of apologizing is enough.
Your heinous crime and blasphemy needs to be punished.
Stop this talk about ONE and Sant Mat TWO.ZERO
You are unable to follow our rules.”
– the person pretending to be the
Haynes Park Association
You do realise that by posting your comment on here, you are going directly against what your guru advises?
That means you are breaking the rules.
So what action should be taken against you?
If your guru is against violence, how can you be for it
Yet call yourself his disciple.
A disciple should be a role model of the teachings and inspire others with his exemplary way of living.
I have seen many satsangis like that. Usually the quiet and unassuming ones
Um interesting comment: Have a look around … in ANY organization that does not stand in the need of attracting customers, servants easily become rude and tend towards behaviour that can be seen in dictatorships.
I have been told by several sevadars in USA that Babaji told them at sevadars meeting/parshad that santmat is a dictatorship.
Of course the sevadars take this literally, and serve the dictator in full zest and to excess, out of fear of displeasing him, all the while forgeting their purpose of coming to the path.
Osho the one who is constantly posting using Haynes park sevadar as his signature is just pulling your leg. For all you know It’s not even someone on the path must be an exer making fun of you.
I suggest you put this whole incident behind and just quietly attend to your work. No need making a big bruhaha about it. That’s the best approach.
Good luck brother
Similar incident happened with me while I was in Beas India, the lady sevadar snatched my diary and i never got it back as she disappeared totally. Very unethical behaviour, I completely lost my cool. I can relate to this incident for sure
lol Vijay – they are confusing themselves rather than the rssb herd, it’s fantastic.
Osho – Haynes Sewadar Association is clearly Jesse. As to your question, I only been to one event – I freely admit to knowing v little about it. Nope I didn’t break the rules. Strangely I believe it is disrespectful to break the rules of an event one is invited to. Rather stay away.
You are a trouble-maker, they’d had enough – what more is there. Just stay away end of, everyone is happy. But I don’t think you can – I think you’ll be trying to wangle your way into the next event, and continuing with your self-important objectionable attitude.
I didn’t see any flying fists or agrresrive sewadars – I saw polite fellas and older ladies trying to, and successfully, marshalling thousands of ppl in and out of a tent. I saw happy families drinking tea.
So if most ppl were perfectly happy in a relaxed environment – the question is why were you ‘lights out’ at the hands of the sewadar mma association?
Your schpiel is completely one-sided and there are always 2 sides to a dispute. Why are you hassling these volunteers to begin with – why break their rules?
The truth is you purposefully broke the rules, were banned, came back and got a bop on the hooter for your efforts by volunteers who’d had you in chunks.
@Georgy Porgy
You wrote “ As to your question, I only been to one event – I freely admit to knowing v little about it. Nope I didn’t break the rules. Strangely I believe it is disrespectful to break the rules of an event one is invited to. Rather stay away.”
Did you know that RSSB asks you not to comment online? It is against the guidelines also. So you have broken that guideline or rule.
So what are we going to do about that ?
Obviously you don’t believe in forgiveness, so that’s out of the question. So what action do you suggest?
@Georgy Porgy
“You are a trouble-maker, they’d had enough – what more is there. Just stay away end of, everyone is happy.”
Can you show me an incident where I caused any trouble? Including this one?
Asking for my phone back is not causing trouble. The sevadars not returning it to me when I have offered to leave IS trouble, as well as illegal.
The incident 2-3 years ago, I did not cause any trouble, nor in fact did the sevadars. They asked me to exit the long way out by going back and I went.
Where is the trouble in that?
Before I went, did I threaten anyone, do anything violent etc? No.
One thing I did do, was make one statement which they can take on board or ignore.
The statement was:
“This is not seva. Seva means you help a person.”
Hardly the actions of a violent or a threatening person.
The only reason you even know about it was because I reported it on Churchless.
I am benevolent towards RSSB. I have nothing against it. I was born in it. I used to read the original A4 size spiritual link at age 10 and take them to school.
When I go to the mic, I am never disrespectful, I merely focus on some topic that many people are confused on and Babaji clarifies it for everyone who seeks clarity.
How is that doing anything against RSSB?
If I was a threat, I am sure Babaji would have seen it, in which case all he would have to say is, “please let’s not continue with these questions” and I will never ask a question ever again.
He is perfectly capable of handling the situation.
Even now I have not and have no plans to take any legal action.
RSSB can, if they choose, take some internal steps to avoid such issues in future. Whether they do or not, is their choice. I am happy both ways.
I am not attaching any blame. Simply reporting the incident.
None of these are the signs of a trouble maker.
Next read my comments in churchless and you will see clearly that I am
Pro RSSB. People asked me why I didn’t ask about the financial scandal.
Go read my reply and decide for yourself if I am pro or against.
If you not intelligent enough to see that, then why bother commenting?
@vijay
“I suggest you put this whole incident behind you”
Thank you Vijay. Helpful advice.
It’s already behind me. I have no malice against anyone involved.
Just because I reported it to the police or posted it on here does not mean I seek revenge.
I am just reporting what happened. I have given the full details and anyone can verify them. I am not seeking any action or outcome.
This is helpful to RSSB not harmful.
@Di
You wrote
“I have been told by several sevadars in USA that Babaji told them at sevadars meeting/parshad that santmat is a dictatorship. ”
He may have said that, but the context is:
Listen to the guru, and not others or your own mind if you want real progress.
“My way or the highway” is a favourite saying of his. Meaning, do it his way, not your way, if you want to succeed.
He is not in favour of sevadars becoming dictators
Lets get it straight, Osho wants abit of attention, he probably wanted to record to put on tube… n he got caught.. he kicked up a fuss and he used violence because he got caught breaking rules.. WHY DO IT! Now he’s come on so people will feel sorry for him! GET A GRIP SON! GROW UP. Own up for wrong doings! If u invite guests to your house n they start misbehaving… I. Sure your not going to sit back n let them. Think before u act.
Di,
What is the context in which GSD said Santmat is a dictatorship?
Hi Osho Robins,
It is what it is.
It certainly seems to be, that you have instigated or provoked a particular situation or mindset.
As a guest to an event, one tries to follow the house rules to the best of his/her ability.
Like you said, nobody’s perfect.
It seems that everybody is at their own level(s) of understanding and development/evolution (sewadar or otherwise).
Like the real Osho aka Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, there is no need for you to go around acting as a mirror and reflecting people’s lack of understanding towards them, in particular the Sewadars at Haynes, or anywhere else, or is there?
There was one Osho in this existence, and that was enough.
The real Osho destroyed people’s concepts of spirituality and religiousness left and right, and he did without any sense of preachiness, nor by quoting from this text or that incessantly.
Bhagwan it seems, spoke whatever he felt was necessary in the given moment, towards a particular audience.
Now back to the incident at Haynes, it is likely that only you should know what your intentions and motive were for roughing up the feathers at Haynes, so to speak, by taking out your phone and going against the house rules or common ettiquete of the event.
You have attended Satsanghs in the past, and you are well aware of their sensitivities, “rules”, and mindsets.
Based on this fact, it seems to be that you were simply provoking a situation, and to say that you were ‘ignorant’ in this particular instance, would not really hold true.
Either way, I’m not siding up with anyone on this issue, as the Sewadars are equally liable for further provoking the matter, and making it all into an unnecessary drama.
After being told that you were banned from all Satsanghs by the Sewadars on the first day, you were cheeky enough to return the next day😂
As if what was done to you on the first day was not enough, you wanted more lies and further provocation?
Perhaps, it would have been better advised, if you had returned the following day with the police, to address the issue of your phone having been temporarily “stolen” on the first day (?)
Or, to simply uphold your right of attending a public event, of course, with you being decent enough to follow their requests or “rules”.
That said, I’m no lawyer, and so it may very well be within the rights of the organisers or Sewadars to deny you entry based on your past behaviour.
In which case, you could simply turn away.
Anyhow, all said and done, my questions to you are;
1) why are you so interested in Satsanghs and what goes on around there? (Especially if you have realized this Oneness, you so keenly write about)
2) will you start going to Satsanghs with your own set of bodyguards from now onwards? (Perhaps resembling the real Osho aka Bhagwan)
Thank you 🙏🌺🌈
Om Mani Peme Hung
@Daljit
You wrote, quoting John Lennon
“There is no guru. You have to believe in yourself. You’ve got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It’s all down to you, mate.”
I agree, ultimately it’s your own personal journey. However in the early stages, a connection with some outer guru is helpful to some people as long as they don’t get stuck there.
From the film “The Guru”
“The guru you see in me is the guru in you”
Guru means giver of light – in this case the light of understanding who you really are. Beyond the body and mind. Realise your true nature instead of seeking inner experiences, which are simply another trap. Discover the essence that never changes. If it changes, it’s not you.
That which watches and witnesses you when you are awake, asleep and dreaming. It was present in all three states. But not involved. Some call it Turiya – the fourth state.
“Your schpiel is completely one-sided and there are always 2 sides to a dispute.” – Georgy Porgy
Well it’s not a dispute. But yes, they will have their version. But I am more than happy to co-operate if they choose to investigate further.
This account is simply to be helpful to those in charge. I seek no specific outcome. It’s for information only.
We can all learn from this and improve
@ Mishu.
We did get hold of your stupid diary. Stop whining like Osho… gosh.. you are such a cry baby. Thank Radhasoami you did not get smacked in the face like Osho.
Our sewadars with their telescopic eyes found the words K, A, A, L hidden among various pages and words in your diary.
One A was hidden in “apple” and another in “breakfast” but you can’t fool the sewadaars… no sir. It ain’t happening. We have been trained by the very best.
It does not take rocket science to figure out what these letters together mean.
Even after so many satsangs don’t you know that KAAL is not allowed in our holy Satsangs?
KAAL stands on one leg with his hands on his head begging for entrance to sacred grounds of holy satsang. But no sir.. where there is Dayal there is no Kaal.
BTW the diary has been transported to the fifth region of Radhasoami heaven.
It was dematerialized in the newly built transporter room (built with coool Italian marble) at the dera then beamed to the fifth region and rematerialized – I hope so. You can grab it when you go there during your astral journeys.
Osho Said to our brother Geory Porgy
“Have you not heard? Babaji is going to appoint me as the successor. ”
A call to all Sewadars. THIS IS FAKE NEWS. DON’T BELIEVE THE RUMORS.
Please stop your frantic calls and plan to attend the secret emergency help-me-calm-down meeting.
Think logically… Osho probably does not have enough money to buy the holy seat. He cries buckets for a mere £1000 phone. Think brothers Think. He is no Ranbaxy. He does not even own private jet or have leather covered Bentleys.
…or does he? hmmm……
@ Osho Robbins
You said “Did you know that RSSB asks you not to comment online?”
Is this really true?
If this is what the Guru is saying that why do we have so many satsangis here??
Why are they breaking their own rules?
Disobeying their own Guru?
Do they feel that their Guru is wrong and they know it better?
@Dave
I had no intention to upload anything to YouTube. There are plenty already in there, and none of them are from me.
Please deal with facts not your unfounded opinions.
You even say I used violence. Was you there? Nobody even accused me of using violence and my track record shows it too.
A sevadar falsely said that I threatened to kick him, and that it a fabrication.
You see how far away from the truth you get by making assumptions that are simply not true?
That is one reason I don’t support the allegations against GSD.
Sure, something happened, just like on Friday and Saturday with me, something happened, but not what done people have concluded.
The only people who really know are the people involved.
Others simply have unfounded opinions which are worth nothing.
I know the truth and I have stated it. Beyond that, what you choose to believe is your business. I have a clear conscience and that is all that matters to me.
Gosh even the Dera Sewadaar Association no different fro their Haynes counterpart in their ignorance.
Even after so many satsangs don’t you know that KAAL is not allowed in our holy Satsangs?
I am Kaal: INCORRECT
Even after so many satsangs don’t you know that KAAL is not allowed in our holy Satsangs?
KAAL stands on one leg with his hands on his head begging for entrance to sacred grounds of holy satsang. But no sir.. where there is Dayal there is no Kaal.
I am Kaal: PARTIALLY INCORRECT. On two counts (1) he begs for entrance to sacred grounds and (2) where there is Dayal there is no Kaal.
I will say that RSSB is a dictatorship and it is run like a prison. The chief warden ( GSD) appoints sevadars / or staff who treats people like animals and anybody who does follow their commands is either humiliated or thrown out of the Satsang. I have seen it Beas too.
Sewadar #1: Let’s ask Babaji to make a rule that exers should not comment online.
Sewadar #2: Hmm. Wait… do you think it work?
Sewadar #1: Of course. Do any participants of Bigg Boss reality show ever comment online after the show?
Sewadar #3: I am worried about Osho. He is a spoilt brat. We should have let him continue speaking at the satsangs. Who listens there any way?
Sewadar #4: OH NO. His talks about the ONE makes my head spin and I have to reach out to those scones and hot chaaa.
Sewadar #3 to #4: Scones? Or old dames? How many times did I tell you to stay away from those old dames.
Haynes Sewadar: Coming back to comments. Even satsangis have stopped listening to Guru now. Guru has told numerous time not to comment online buy they still go to Brian’s website.
What is the Oregon Sewadar Association doing about Brian?
Oregon Sewadar: Before blaming us what have YOU done about Osho? He is still running loose. He is still thinking, talking, commenting, uploading vides. Shame on you.
Haynes Sewadar: Well we tried… smacked him nicely on his face, broke his glasses, took hold of his phone. bur he called the cops.. He did not even know who Sewadar# 2 was and he claims to know the ONE.
Beas Sewadar: We have new problem in our hands. Osho is instigating Mishu who has now started commenting and complaining.
Sewadar #1: Heyyy WTF. Someone brought in their phone and is recording our satsang… get him quick before he does a Osho….
Other Sewadars: Darn too late. He escaped.. Don’t worry.. He will never get admitted to Radhasoami heaven.
Does it really hurt to accept inconvenience if someone is emotionally attached to a thing or place or else and in this case a spiritual congregation.
Some face inconvenience to follow rules happily as they are either only partially attached or not at all…
The result is damn an incident not in good taste.
Was it the first ‘a’ or the second in ‘breAkfAst’
Osho
Yes, I suspect your sloppy arguments are what landed you in trouble in the first place. No wonder the sevadar clocked you one.
The Haynes park satsang rules make it absolutely clear – don’t bring a phone or recording device into the tent. As far as I know this is pretty much the only rule they ask you to follow and yet you have willfully sought to break it and still trying to make excuses for doing so.
Rssb suggest that you do not discuss your personal experience online, presumably if you are an initiate. I am not an initiate, nor have had a personal spiritual experience – which I fully agree is personal and should not be talked about. I cant stand those religious nutters who proselytize their faith or expound on SM 2.0 philosophies at every Gdam opportunity – as if anyone else cares.
I’m pretty sure the big chief GSD has got no problem with my comments. He looks like a cool dude. I thought he was practical not religious. In fact, the Saturday satsang he didn’t raise a single religious concept – the satsangis did tho.
If however he happens to be more than just a practical wise older uncle, and he does have special powers, which I’m not sure I believe – but if he does (your dad might know best), then I’d be a Gdam sight more worried for your dodgy behavior than mine. You know full well what you did.
You must now reap what you have sewn – aint a wee pop on the snoz exactly what you deserve? Stop causing trouble at satsang. Take your medicine and don’t return. The stewards are still partying and busting moves in celebration…
Osho you said
This is helpful to RSSB not harmful.
No it isnt.
You owe it to the Patron and the Managing Committee/Secretary that they are made aware of ‘your side’ through a formal communication to them. Unlikely that anyone who matters within RSSB visits this site and even if they do, they can easily deny it and feign ignorance of the incident at Haynes.
You can always state what your intentions are and end it with – you are more than happy to co-operate if they choose to investigate further.
Interesting would be their reaction.
@pema Tej
Thank you for the detailed comment.
There is no need for me to go around acting as a mirror. That is true.
I had no plan to instigate anything. It happened exactly as I wrote. The phone fell and after that I felt like a passive observer to everything that took place.
It’s like it was just all happening. I am
Just telling you what it felt like.
I am no Osho, just me. I am no guru either. I am not out to create anything.
The ban was based on a lie. Also I didn’t think the person had the authority to ban me. Why was a lie necessary?
On the next day he claimed he was the owner of Haynes Park. Which is clearly not the case.
On the Saturday I was simply intending to attend satsang, not to provoke.
When sevadar #2 asked me to step to the side, I told him that I was simply there to attend satsang and then go home.
I guess it was naive of me to go unaccompanied but I really did not imagine anything untoward would happen.
I certainly never went to cause trouble.
If I wanted to do that, I would have gone accompanied by a group of people and none of this would have happened.
I did not file a police report on Friday. I did not intend to cause any problems for anyone. So I was certainly not going to go there with the police.
It was a minor incident.
Even day 2 was a minor incident. I don’t attach any blame to anyone.
I am not interested in satsangs, but I enjoy a friendly discussion with BabaJi. I feel he is authentic and goes out of his way to explain the truth to those who are interested.
In my mind he stand out as the most outspoken of the gurus.
I have a close affinity to RSSB as I was bought up in it. I rarely go to local satsangs.
I will not be going again to any satsang unless that same sevadar lifts the ban personally.
Wow! What interesting attitudes some of the RSSB-defenders have here? GyPy in particular.
So many people arguing that if you are a guest in someone’s house you should respect their rules. Erm… What about if its not your house either, you are also a guest, and the person is requesting to be allowed to leave immediately, but you won’t let them because you are illegally keeping their expensive property??
So many people arguing: “If not happy with the rules, simply do not come”.
I liked this comment in reply, which I think gets to the heart of the issue:
“If the sevadars and Gurinder aren’t happy with the laws of the UK, simply go elsewhere and stop giving satsangs there.”
Osho – this is the best thing I have heard in my life!
Osho will not be going again to any satsang unless that same sevadar lifts the ban personally. — Yippeeeee
I hope that sevadar never lifts the ban on you.
No Osho in RSSB means no problems in RSSB!
But i am sure Brian and his followers will find another dog for their work! They have used and exploited you a lot and they are always mentally ill people to create problems in RSSB e.g Sonya!
God Bless you Osho, hope you find some peace now!
Osho,
You say both day were minor incidents. And Jesus Christ the amount you have written and whined.
I shudder to think what posters herein be subject to if ever a major incident occurred.
Lol minor incident – gd almighty the amount we heard about this minor incident.
Great case closed. No more satsang for Osho. The sevardars are partying hard, someone’s just broken out the scones, celebrate good times wahoo…
Sewadar #1: Was he Osho? I even see Osho in my dreams. Even in my astral visions I see Osho now instead of Babaji. My life is ruined ruined ruined.
Sewadar #4: All I see is scones, hot chaaa and all those old dames smiling to me…. Wicked…
Sewadar #2: Osho did not even know ME? For Radhasoami’s sake it is ME. Everyone should know ME. All this sewa and people still don’t know MIGHTY ME.
Australia Sewadar #1: Is it true that Osho is banned? For Life? All over the world? How come we did not get the memo? Just because we are down under no one cares for us?
Uh oh. No one notices our sewa. It’s all about Haynes park.. is it? You know Baba Ram Rahim Sewadar Association has approached me. You know…. There are lot many babas out there.
Australia Sewadar #2: Shh.. Keep quite. Babaji just bought a huge parcel of land to build a mega satsang center. We will be rich and famous soon. Fukk these Haynes Park sewadars and their Osho drama.
Sewadar #3: What happens if Osho becomes the next Guru???
Sewadar #2: << Screams>>
Sewadar #1: This might be a blessing in disguise for me. I already see Osho in my astral visions. I will be way up in the higher regions than you suckers.. serves you right. He is alright chap. I feel sorry for lying that he is going to hit me in the nuts.
Sewadar #2: WILL YOU SHUT THE FuKK UP. I am not going to lift the ban. You can date kaal for all I care. I have the power.
Dear Osho Robbins,
I feel sad that the Sewadars acted inappropriately towards you.
On a personal note though;
a) why the name Osho? (assuming Robbins is your last name?)
b) You mentioned that you are not interested in Satsanghs, then why bother with recording at all?
c) why give so much importance to a Sewadar who banned you? You are giving him more power to decide for you, whether to attend a Satsangh or not in the future, by saying that you will not attend a Satsangh unless he personally lifts the ban.
Perhaps, you could write to a Sewadar in Charge who has more authority than the Sewadar who banned you?
If what you claim is true, and that the Sewadar who banned you claims to own Haynes Park, than this needs to be reported to a ‘higher up’ authority of the RSSB ladder.
Thank you 🙏
@sewadar satsang leaked
Hilarious.
You can easily keep me entertained if you carry on like that. I won’t need the ban lifted.
When I get appointed to be the next guru
My first task will be that I will appoint sevadar #1 and #2 to be speakers
And once every month to do a comedy show just like on here but live.
@pema Tej
Why feel sad?
It was an adventure.
The week before, Babaji said
Everything happens in hukam
And
There is no good or bad.
Put on those glasses
And see what happens to the two day adventure.
It was all a divine play. A cosmic joke.
I don’t take jokes seriously
I don’t even take myself too seriously
It is strange that a phone can cause so much havoc in a spiritual haven.
Maybe I should apply to be a sevadar.
Can’t say if I will last longer than 24 hours though.
Robbins is not my surname. Both are made up. Amalgamation
Of Osho & Tony Robbins
The sevadar who banned me is very important. He owns Haynes Park and no ban can be lifted until he changes his mind. And only God knows what will make him change his mind.
So first I have to find God to ask him.
So will be easier to remain banned until he changes his mind.
I don’t think there can be a higher sevadar than one who had full authority to ban anyone.
Sewadar #2: Radhasoami.. Does everyone knows who I am? No??? Well there are print outs with details about my name, status, wealth and inner visions on the table. Please take one. There will be quiz next week…
Australian Sewadar: Here we go. It’s all about Haynes Park and their Sewadars.
Beas Sewadar: Hello… I am from Beas THE Dera. It ranks above Haynes Park. Hello.. Hello.. is any one listening?
Sewadar #2: Please take more print outs for your family and friends? Please leave some I need to mail them to Osho.
Beas Sewadar: Hello… Hello.. Hello.. is any one listening? I am from THE BEAS DERA.. This looks like a coup.. Need to inform Babaji.
Sewadar #2: Some one is leaking our satsangs. Guys take this seriously. This is robbery… plain and simple. Our Store is already reporting drop in sales. Make sure that all doors and windows are locked and secure. Make sure that the person standing to your right is not Osho.
Beas Sewadar: Radhasoami.. Radhasoami.. Radhasoami.. I need some attention.. We still have Mishu’s diary. I am getting worried after the drama at Haynes Park. We should have never snatched the diary from Mishu. What if she also starts complaining or calls the cops? Will I loose my sewa? Baba Ram Rahim Sewadar Association has not approached me. Does any one have their phone number? I will need some references too… from any one except Sewadar # 1.
Sewadar #1.
Sewadar #4. I have some suggestions for the next satsang at Haynes park. We need volunteers to sponsor more scones this time. Also some adrak (ginger) in chaa will not kill any one.
Also we should have the scones and chaa stalls bang in the middle of old ladies section and I volunteer to guard the old ladies section.
Sewadar #3. No you won’t.
Sewadar #1. What about me? I don’t want to lose my sewa… pleeease.
All I have reported happened exactly as reported. That is not subject to debate unless anyone was there who can speak from first hand experience.
The question is what can we learn from this?
One specific point I want to focus on is this:
Is it okay to lie in order to keep your seva if your superior tells you to?
Now we are not talking about your guru telling you to lie. That’s a whole different matter.
We are talking about another human being who is as lost as you are or maybe even more.
As Babaji said “The sevadars are not perfect”
So when another sevadar higher up the rank tells you to lie or cheat or act in ways you feel are inappropriate, what should you do?
I know what I would do. I would hand in my badge and say goodbye.
By the way let me clarify my “satsang ban”
It was not really a ban. The person in charge wrote to me and a meeting was arranged in Haynes Park in regard to my speaking style.
Prior to this, I gave a talk in Derby. The audience was 99% Indians. So I spoke 25% in Punjabi. I know because the person in charge had my talk recorded and analysed it.
Sent me a detailed critique of it. The main objection was that I spoke 25% in punjabi.
Why did I do that, when I was giving the English talk?
I’ll tell you why.
Because if someone has come to satsang I care more about their time than rules.
After the talk so many satsangis said they enjoyed the talk because I translated from the gurbani and they could understand it. They felt their time was not wasted.
Anyway at the Haynes park meeting, I was told “we need parrots” to simply repeat the four pillars of Sant mat.
I would veer off into other areas and they didn’t like it. I usually got carried away and followed wherever the flow took me. You can see this clearly in this talk from Birmingham
https://youtu.be/rwTQiZb_8zs
So I made it easy for them. I told them I was emigrating to USA soon anyway. Perfect excuse for them.
I handed it to them on a plate.
Why?
Because I only did satsangs if I enjoy them. Otherwise what’s the point.
It’s not a job , certainly not mine.
And they were making too many rules like minimum number of satsangs per year. I only wanted to do 3 or 4 a year.
Not every weekend.
So If I am not free to talk from my heart, to me that is a fake satsang, and that’s why I walked away from it.
If it doesn’t come from my heart, it will never reach the heart of the audience.
That is how seva should be also. Not robotic.
Should be done from love. Not rules.
Ten strong people pushing a horse into a barn and failing. One small child says I can do it myself. They laughed. He got some hay and fed the horse. And slowly walked into the barn. Job done.
Love or force? Which is more effective?
You decide
I will say that RSSB is a dictatorship and it is run like a prison. The chief warden ( GSD) appoints sevadars / or staff who treats people like animals and anybody who does not follow their commands is either humiliated or thrown out of the Satsang. I have seen it Beas too.
A correction to my previous comment.
Posted by:Rajinder Sharma | September 02, 2019 at 07:43 AM
By the way Osho…rules r rules…if u make attention to murder or murder someone..still u need to go to jail…Though u were not recording Babaji’s voice but u still recorded something, which is an offense..u had to pay for it..
I m waiting how much can anyone write on this..if they understand rules
Rajinder Sharma ji, thank you for your comments and I hope you never go RSSB again because of you hatred. Good luck and God Bless you.
Osho, why did you nit comment on my comment? Please acknowledge my excitement which has doubled with Rajinder out as well!
Osho says
Love or force? Which is more effective?
Actually neither of the two. It’s a simple case of smart thinking. Jeez that kid is a smart cookie. You should spend some time with the kid; might learn judicious behaviour and thinking.
Dear Osho,
Don’t you know when to stop????
Most aren’t interested in your Gyan on whats to learn from the incident or how seva should be done.
You don’t even have the guts to write to Dera (which is the appropriate thing to do) and all you put in here is this sham of whatever happened was as per HIS Hukum. If this be the case then shut up and accept it quietly!!!!!
Live in HIS Bhaana(will) singing Tera Bhaana meetha lage (HIS will is always sweet).
Don’t crib and top it up with your worthless Gyan.
… And of course good friends serve the same function.
@excited soul
I am glad that such simple things like a ban makes you so happy.
If I had known this before, I would have got banned long ago.
Rajinder sharma…give me the answer of this question, when did u throw out from Beas? When did u see that? Where is the place u saw people were humiliated? Did u record something? If u have any proof so show it! Do not say anything which u don’t know. if u were the follower and not following now so it’s ur frustration speaking, not u.
People like you are like those people that u want everything but when u don’t get anything so u ruin everything.
Understand Sharma..so think before u say or write anything.
If u have guts so give me the answers of above questions. Don’t give chance to those who is writing in this blog just to earn only money.
Kunal, show some respect. Don’t talk to a Brahmin like that.
Oh Kunal.
“By the way Osho…rules r rules…if u make attention to murder or murder someone..still u need to go to jail.”
You may have no respect for Brahmins, but you are so correct.
What Osho did was not illegal. But, what the sevadars did was illegal. They should be in jail, just as you say. Thank you for being honest about this fact and let’s pray to Baba so that his sevadars face punishment under the laws of the land where they committed the assault and theft.
Thanks Osho. Now please stop crying and no more mischief by attending Rssb satsang ok? Be a good boy and stay at home no more messing with sevadars. God bless you bro.
SP,
No I don’t know the context. Just what sevadars said after their parshad meeting.
Osho,
Interesting comment about being banned as a speaker for speaking from the heart.
You may recall in mid 80s hazoor spoke on behalf of sangat and lower level sevadars from the heart while taking the responsibility for creating plush offices for the dera management.
At the time, management never acknowledged any responsibility but recalled all the tapes of that satsang from around the world.
An anonymous person said that dera management told hazoor to only deal with spiritual matters and keep out of dera management issues.
After hazoor’s demise, the general sangat felt BBji would be the “fixer”. I suppose he has tried with a dictatorial style. Maybe the management told BBji the same thing. Unfortunately, the style has trickled down to management and sevadars. It may work for them.
However, the real dera/RSSB magic of 60s thru the early 90s has disappeared since the expansion of the organization into international centers.
Sad indeed!
Someone earlier had posted a message about the world having burned, had not there been sants/saints in the world.
Again, I don’t know what to think.
As I look around our oceans are rising and full of pollution. Earth is sinking and laden with toxins, Amazon is burning. Countless species are disappearing at exponential rate. Yet there is no shortage of sants today.
As the saying goes, “turnover any brick in India, you can find a sant.”
Maybe a review of job description or continuing education is needed???
I feel it is more like a multinational business now.
India is a huge market for Baba business especially in North.
Indian immigrants overseas are another huge market.
Out of the huge number of Babas I wonder how many are genuine?
Sometimes I wonder if genuine ones really need all this paraphernalia?
Can you really transfer “divinity”- for lack of a better word – from one person to other? Like a company gets a new CEO?
Kabir, Buddha, Mahavir, Jesus, Mohammad and various saints never started a “gaddi.” Nor did Ramana Maharishi or Sai Baba for that matter.
The Sikh Gurus did have it going for a while till the tenth Guru ended it or tried to.
I thought with increased education and easy access to real mystic’s teachings the influence of Babas will decline. However I don’t see that happening.
Di you say
“However, the real dera/RSSB magic of 60s thru the early 90s has disappeared since the expansion of the organization into international centers.
Sad indeed! ”
I don’t see what’s sad about many more people being taught to live a spiritual life. Yes the sangat has grown from the 90s but this is a good thing for the people who never knew about spirituality to incorporate it into their lives.
Living in the western world I see a greater need for this than ever before on a daily basis. What’s sad to me is the increase in suicide, depression, anxiety and other mental issues. What’s also sad is the increase in substance abuse.
Di this is not sad it’s a good thing there is a growth in the number of people focusing on a spiritual life.
Redirect your focus.
Dear Osho Robbins u read in ur school tym some rules follow by as a student so plz don’t blame to rssb sevadar . Thank u
Di, do you know the meant of sant?
Deepak,
When did I blame them?
I simply stated what happened
In fact I have specifically said I don’t attach any blame
@ Anon, the pain death of one child cannot be compensate by the joy ot the birth of another child.
Actually what is needed is getting the context first of one’s statement;
then whether it’s – Is sant mat a dictatorship or the world burning itself if not for the presence of saints at all times.
Correction
Not one’s statement.
Should read someone’s statement
” Is sant mat a dictatorship or the world burning itself if not for the presence of saints at all times.”
No either/or here. Sant mat could be a dictatorship that is preventing the world from burning. Dictatorships are usually pretty stable.
Or sant mat could be a democracy that is causing the world to burn.
Or there is absolutely no correlation between North Indian babas and anything else on earth. That’s the choice I’m going with. The irrelevancy of post-bhakti,post-sikh north India babaism.
@SP
SP writes
“Most aren’t interested in your Gyan on whats to learn from the incident or how seva should be done.
You don’t even have the guts to write to Dera (which is the appropriate thing to do) and all you put in here is this sham of whatever happened was as per HIS Hukum. If this be the case then shut up and accept it quietly!”
Are you a spokesman for “Most people”?
I am in the process of writing – so don’t make assumptions.
“Humaki andar sab koi – bar hukam an koi”
Everything is in hukam – nothing is outside
Hukam does not mean some person of baba is sitting there
saying what is going to happen next.
Hukam means – “Whatever happens”
another way of saying “It’s all happening as it should regardless of whether you or I like it. Even a thief is acting in hukam. It is essentially saying that the ONE is the only doer and you and I are simply puppets – not doers.
Anon, Thank you for your comment. I appreciate your advise to “refocus.”
I should have included psychosocial illnesses in my second message. However, religion/religiosity/spirituality are not necessarily protective against these problems of humanity.
I wonder if Spence might have statistics on these problems among satsangi families or initiates. Personally, I don’t believe anyone has done any studies in RS.
In my experience, these problems are multifaceted with religion being only one determinant. it can be protective for some and compounder for others.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4990512/
Anon again, I appreciate your advice to “refocus.”
However, In my opinion RSSB and other religions should refocus/redirect as well to truly save humanity and the world as they propose in their missions.
Hazoor has a beautiful section on atmosphere of satsang in ‘Spiritual Perspectives Vol III”
Excited soul,
Please educate me on understanding the meaning of “sant”. It will be greatly appreciated.
I appreciate everyone here for allowing an honest dialogue on real/troubling issues that have come up recently. Thank you.
Di
Osho
That’s good then. Do keep us updated about the revert from Dera.
Now,
It’s upto an individual who or what he wishes to be guided by
Old scriptures which you quote and Hukum (lack of free will)
Or what the current RSSB patron says and to quote him
“Kismet hame ek mukam par la kadi Karti hai. Phir ye ham pe hai ki hum sahi chune ya galat”
(Destiny brings us to a point. It’s then upto us whether we choose what’s right or wrong)
Or Man is maker of his own destiny
@SP
The GSD teaches both.
At first I never understood why
He teaches both of these
(1) There is only the ONE and he is the only doer. We are puppets in his hand
No free will. No good / bad etc. Everything in hukam
(2). We are the doer. Do right actions. Be a good person. Meditate and get to sach khand.
He clarified to me why.
If you view yourself as the body and the mind, and feel you are the doer then, that is your reality and you have to start from there.
Then (1) is just a theory and if you did take it on board, you would be fake.
Only if (1) is your Realization is it worth considering. Otherwise it’s just an excuse to avoid the spiritual work.
If you DO what he says:
Meditate, be good etc
Drop the desire
Then a moment comes when the truth dawns on you. That dawning is the beginning of Realization.
It can never be an achievement, hence it’s beyond your effort.
Then you become helpless and see you are insignificant. Then you won’t ask
“Do you know who I am?”
So he is saying Start from where you are.
If you think you are the doer, then be the doer and do good deeds and meditate.
Until you realise the truth.
Only then engage with sant mat 2.0
In 2.0 all blame has gone from the roots.
How can you blame when only the ONE is the doer? The ONE means YOU.
If you blame them you are in Sant mat 1.0
But the point is Sant mat 2.0 is not a belief to replace 1.0
It is an inner realisation, a conviction, a knowing. Not subject to debate
And it’s perfectly okay not to agree with me, as I am not asking anyone to agree.
You can agree or disagree, neither is better or worse.
Same with my account of what happened on fri/sat.
I am simply stating what happened. I am not out to convince anyone. I am not out for revenge, I am not blaming anyone.
I don’t even think it was “wrong” in the ultimate sense.
However, RSSB may need to look at their internal procedures if they wish to avoid such incidents in the future. If they don’t wish to avoid them, then that too is okay.
I have simply reported what happened. I have no attachment to any outcome.
Hello Kunal:
I have been to Dera many times and have seen with my own eyes how the Sevadars get aggressive and abusive if you do not follow their commands. In 2018 I was sitting in the NRI section and one elderly gentleman who did not sit on a chair as demanded by the number 2 Sevadar was told very loudly to go sit on the floor way behind by the head Sevadar . Why you cannot accept the fact that Dera is run by the Maharaja Gurinder Singh Dihllion and nothing moves in that place without his consent.
People who have connections are allowed in to Dera from a different entrance door without any frisking with their mobile phone but people who have no connection are told to follow the rules and their luggage has to go thru an x-ray machine.
Why the set up is so unfair at a so called religious place ?. Please be respectful and answer my questions.
In Satsang we are told not to run after the money by GSD but he has been implicated to embezzle one billion dollars US.
@ osho . How would you have reacted if they had punched the one you love? Bet you would be attached to the outcome then. Otherwise your loved one would leave you.
Think before you write!!!!!!!! And FUCK the One. It’s getting boring now
Osho,
Sant mat 2.0 – all about realising within, there is no I just the ONE blah blah. Well what’s Santmat 1.0 ? And if there are Santmat 1.1 to 1.99 kindly throw some Gyan on each of these as well.
Thanks
Rajinder
You say
(1) In Satsang we are told not to run after the money by GSD but he has been implicated to embezzle one billion dollars US.
SP: So GSD’s name appears in the ongoing saga, but do you have a problem with the message conveyed? Tomorrow a drug addict tells you keep away from drugs. Would you disregard his message because it comes from a drug addict?
(2) I have been to Dera many times and have seen with my own eyes
Sp: Are you able to see through somebody else’s eyes too?
(3) the elderly gent and the demanding number 2 Sevadhar.
SP:
Was this elderly fellow a NRI too? The sevadhar – Was sevadar demanding he sit on the chair or emphasizing the entitlement?
Sit on the floor way behind…… Where was this way behind? Was he telling him to go sit with the satsangis a km from the stage or did it mean in the NRI section but behind the row of chairs?
Was it a case that this gent wanted to sit on the floor but amongst the chairs. If yes, was he entitled to do so? Was it an appropriate thing to do? Thank God this fella didn’t say I want to lie down on the ground.
Sitting in the NRI section, didn’t you hear the daily announcement REQUESTING sangat to sit where ever the sevadars ask them to? Maybe you didn’t. But now that you know about this, tell me is there any merit in making this announcement? Or Is it some whimsical announcement that this guy makes just because he loves his voice so much that he can’t resist speaking into a mike to hear the amplified version.
4) Why you cannot accept the fact that Dera is run by the Maharaja Gurinder Singh Dihllion and nothing moves in that place without his consent.
SP: Well it’s a widely accepted fact that GSD’s writ runs. And being the patron why shouldn’t it? Rest assured if it were otherwise, a sequence of regrettable consequences is what one would see.
4) People who have connections are allowed in to Dera from a different entrance door without any frisking with their mobile phone but people who have no connection are told to follow the rules and their luggage has to go thru an x-ray machine.Why the set up is so unfair at a so called religious place ?
SP: Different entrance into Dera or satsang shed? Do you know who these people are personally or it’s just a conjecture that they are people with connections?
Also you talk about things not being fair ya….. So do what you can fix right. Write to Dera demanding that NRI’s shouldn’t be accorded any entitlements, no front enclosures with chairs and gaddis, no Hostel accommodation – all NRI’s to be housed only in sheds and use public loos like many thousands others. No more access to snack bar and coffee shop where they can hog on pizzas etc and the mall as well. They like the other sangat should have to stand in mile long queues for even a cup of copy. No more NRI sessions with the Master. I actually already see the NRI section dismantled LOL.
My friend, if you do not know the challenges faced by Dera and the resulting extant rules, it’s best to remain zipped up.
BTW are you a NRI or you managed to worm your way into the NRI section?
@SP
Here is a link to the 2011 video I posted about sant mat 1.0 vs 2.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2eweEr_50
Hello SP
It is very clear to me that you do not see anything wrong with the set up in Dera where people who know somebody in the hierarchy are allowed in not from gate no. 5 but from another door. This is a fact that I know some people who are using this system to enter.
In RSSB philosophy you are told not to you use your intellect because intellect is supposed to be connected with mind and mind is part of KAL . May be that is why you cannot analyze the situation in
the Dera objectively.
Regarding your comment for my entry in to NRI section I can assure you that I did not worm my way in to it illegally
but I had a genuine NRI card.
Basically as I said before Dera is run like a kingdom of Gurinder Singh Dhillon and it also run like a cult. In a cult only one person runs the whole organization and the followers are told everyday not to question his authority. He is treated as God how can anybody question him.
Good luck to you for not seeing anything wrong with the management of RSSB
BEAS but in my opinion it is CULT.
@ Sp,
the incidents that are reported here just do happen.
No need to make it seen different.
As i often say:
Things are what they are,
but seldom what they look like
let alone how they are presented, by interested parties.
These type of reported incidents have nothing to do with this or that particular organisation, they just happen in ANY organisation run by HUMANS.
Organisations, are run by spread of power, like electricity or water in a river, from high to low.
And each and every person that deals with power can mis-use that power knowingly or unknowingly.
I wonder if people who complain about these incidents do also complain about the same sort of incidents elsewhere.
Corruption, nepotism, reeling and dealing of favors etc etc, happens in all compagnies and organisations … staff having their own places to park their cars, their own tables to have diner, there is no end to the privileges each level has.
Dera is a religious multinational … what should things be different from any other compagny, political, cultural, social etc ??
Yes, some run their affairs more elegantly that others, and the reign of one king is different from the other but under the outer appearances it is just the same.
With the growth comes the evil … see what happened with the internet … it all started out as a benign initiative for students
Rajinder, you said
It is very clear to me that you do not see anything wrong with the set up in Dera where people who know somebody in the hierarchy are allowed in not from gate no. 5 but from another door. This is a fact that I know some people who are using this system to enter.
Yes there is nothing wrong with ‘the set up’. I would have a problem if the set up starts getting rampantly abused – which is unlikely for there isn’t much that goes unnoticed at Dera for long.
Next time take some time out to understand who and why some people (who you conjure up to be all with connections) pass through without the mandatory security checks and/or carry their hand phones into Dera. Also do find out the attendant responsibilities and applicable conditions then.
I could very well tell you for I happen to also be one of such people. But why give it to you on a platter.
Incidently, I don’t even know where is Gate 5 despite my 3/4 visits each year. All I know is the gate I need to use and more importantly I know what entitles me to use this gate and IT CERTAINLY ISN’T ANY CONNECTIONS!!!!!!
I hope it doesn’t become embarrassing for you – being presumptive about some one’s analytical capabilities around prevalent situations and rules at Dera. You don’t even know who SP is and what is his/her association with the Dera.
Anyways let me keep it manageable for you
Why don’t you reply the few questions SP asked in connection with your cited observation whilst sitting in the NRI section. Then let us know your views on having a level playing field for NRIs – to reduce some unfairness in Dera.
No point whining about how Dera manages itself and whose writ runs therein. The Dera has decided how it operates and the collective cerebral power of the people who matter there will put many a corporations to shame.
Some like it. Some don’t. Some simply accept it. Save yourself the trouble by not visiting Dera or take the trouble to suggest improvement whilst being within Dera i.e. doing seva in Dera and not as an opinion from a largely clueless observer.
Btw are you privy to the proceedings at the Exco and/or other meetings that occur regularly to state as a matter of fact that nobody questions or disagrees with GSD or that GSD doesn’t ask for and seeks suggestions and recommendations on matters concerning the Dera???
You sure he doesn’t have an advisor?
Day 2 – Saturday – The day of the punch is about to be released.
Book your tickets now.
Like a new Bollywood movie.
Makes day 1 seem mild by comparison.
Day1 consisted of theft of the phone, deceit and fabrication of a lie to give grounds for a ban.
Day2 takes it from that point to
Assault (holding a person against their will).
Premeditated and unprovoked serious assault (punch to the face) seven onto one person.
Bullying.
Criminal damage (broke my glasses)
Serious threats: “I know where you live”
I too played my part in day 2. I don’t deny anything.
I told the guy to his face that he doesn’t have the authority to ban me. Which I still believe to be true as his so called ban was based on a fabricated lie and even forcing another sevadar to lie.
In my opinion, that is not seva, and there is no benefit from that seva.
Obviously a person who does seva needs to question why he is doing seva and if it is of any spiritual benefit at all.
Personally, If I was in that situation (as I was when I was a national UK speaker)
I would (and I did) hand in my resignation.
People who are serious about spiritual progress will not waste their valuable time on power games and ego trips.
Hello Slave
Since you do not know the Gate no. 5 may be I should remind you that this is the gate where ordinary public enters the Dera and deposits their mobiles.
As you are not aware of this gate It is clear to me that you belong to the special class and as such you do not suffer any physical searches and humiliation at gate no. 5.
When GSD is running RSSB Beas how can he involved in running Religare Health and be implicated by Indian courts for financial embezzlement to the tune of one Billion US dollars.
Is this not a conflict of interest even under ordinary circumstances?
But he is running a religious organization and he should follow at least what he preaches his disciples of honest living and not marking money by illegal means and enriching himself and his family.
Hey Slave,
You so like me. You are slave of GSD and I am slave of LSD.
Good to know the entitlements that come with being a slave of GSD. Impressive. No security checks, phone inside Dera. Pretty cool. What else? House in Dera as well ? Cushy prominent seva in an aircon office? Sitting in front enclosure? Separate entrance to satsang shed just like the NRIs
No no I’m not jealous or complaining. Maybe you are of high utility to Dera and GSD for the moment.
Me – I am just another one who visits Dera time permitting. The good thing, my association with RSSB will not cause any embarrassment to our Dear NRI brother. On the contrary me on the path(supposedly) and not keeping my side of the deal must be embarrassing for GSD. Imagine he having to explain his choice of initiates. Hopefully you are not like me on this count 😂
But yes I have experienced what it’s like being close to the top and bottom – so the first row and the absolutely last row. Strangely have been at peace in both situations. Go to Dera if it makes you happy. Certainly not to be on a fault finding mission. Finding faults that’s the fucking easiest thing to do. Am sure it will send shivers down my spine (even when high on LSD) if I go through the list of faults tagged to our dear NRI brother.
Questions were just pointers. Wasn’t expecting answers. Don’t provoke our Dear NRI brother into responding. Let him enjoy whilst he can.
Hey Slave,
My pointers were conveniently sidestepped. That’s objective thinking.
Are you by any chance expecting responses to the set of even tougher questions you asked him?
Hey Rajinder,
Had your detached objective thinking gone grazing when you lapped up all the NRI privileges? Didn’t it scream within you that you have no right to be treated differently from the rest of the sangat?
Also is fuzzy thinking in your case objective thinking – which made you state “Good luck to you for not seeing anything wrong with the management of RSSB”
It must be because only then could you read some where a comment from me which suggested/stated that the management of Dera is perfect and thus I don’t see ANYTHING WRONG at Dera??
My friend, at least follow up your claims of being objective appropriately and for your next visit (if you ever are inclined) make sure you don’t route your application through your country accomodation coordinator.
I’ve never been to Dera, but I did go to India for bandara in 1985. In Delhi I was seated in the foreigner section about 8 rows from the dais. In front of us was a special section for Indians–VIP’s or friends and family of Maharaj Ji’s, I supposed. In front of them, a fierce looking sewadar faced us, arms crossed, standing guard below the dais A young Indian women in the special section caught my attention. Her sheer orange shawl flapped languidly in the breeze, and I liked the angle of her delicate shoulders. I began to wonder what she looked like from the front and impure thoughts formed. The sewadar caught me staring too long and gave me the most ferocious look! I thought he’d charge straight through the VIP’s and drag me out by the neck!
Give me the last row any day. I had no business in the front. Too much pressure!
dais.
(left out the ‘ . ‘)
I read some of the story but it went on too long. I stopped at when Osho went to lost n found and the phone was not there. I’m not one to be on the side of sevadars. Osho sounds like a pr_ck with a fancy phone who thinks he can do whatever he wants. Why did he even go to HPark. He knows what sevadars are like. If he’s so clever why can’t he just remember what someone says. He has no right to record someone who believes no-one is recording them. But Osho now is the victim. Yes it was inconvenient for his phone to be held 5 hours but they mistrusted him for obvious reasons – they weren’t about to believe him because he had already been deceptive. Sometimes I’m surprised at Brian’s take on things. Brian! :).
(Oh and sometimes i do read comments. In another comment i said i had stopped. Ha! I try from time to time.)
OK…i went back and finished Osho’s story since Brian thought it was important enough to publish. …and am likewise appalled (if it is true) that the sevadars were deceptive regarding changing names on receipt, and bullying the junior sevadar with losing his seva if he doesn’t get the names changed, etc.
In their defensive (i do not LIKE defending sevadars’ bad behaviour) it cannot be easy dealing with the public (we can probably all attest to that, people can be very undermining and aggressive), so a naive and accommodating sevadar team probably would not work. However this story saddens me from all angles. Love is b.s. in this realm. I wish for Osho and for the sevadars’ and for me and your sakes things could be resolved with love. The only place there probably can be love is in our own hearts, and i take this lesson from this story: stay the heck away from people, from groups, from sevadars. Everyone sucks. Except the lady who gave him change for the public phone. She is representative of most of i hope. And Osho….maybe this was a blessing in disguise. At least you will not EVER be in their presence since you have been banned. I hope you are not upset by it. Just hang around people who bring the best out in you and vica versa.
In addition to my prior comment (the second one) since my first comment did not make the grade to be published (point taken) i just want to clarify: Osho sounds like an entitled person with a too expensive phone who believes he can do whatever he wants. Recording someone who believes no-one is recording them is “incorrect”. The fact that his recording phone fell out of his hand just as a sevadar was there to see it and seize it shows you a “coincidence”. Doesn’t it? …..
Now, most people would stay away from after Osho’s unpleasant phone altercation including being banned from returning, but in the comments section Osho indicates he went back the next day despite having been banned. That tells us something about Osho. AND he says he got punched. (Who is surprised. Ok, I am, but still). Osho… Why do you go back to a place where you don’t like what’s going on for good reason, and where they don’t want you around and told you as much. Dude find peace elsewhere.
SP,
There are many more entitlements including Gaddis not just here but in all the inner regions as well. Become a slave like me I urge.
Re the questions, ofcourse these must be answered; yours and mine both. People can’t shoot and scoot.
Rajinder Saheb,
Radhasoami.
YOU: “Since you do not know the Gate no. 5 may be I should remind you that this is the gate where ordinary public enters the Dera and deposits their mobiles.”
ME: thank you for sharing ‘what’ Gate 5 is for. If you had read carefully, you would have realised I actually said I don’t know ‘where’ Gate no 5 is.
YOU: As you are not aware of this gate It is clear to me that you belong to the special class and as such you do not suffer any physical searches and humiliation at gate no. 5.
ME: distinguish between not being aware of and not knowing where Gate 5 is.
Chalo atleast this misplaced understanding did make you a little bit wiser. When I stated candidly that I belong to special class you missed it completely.
During my next Dera visit, I will make it a point to go to Gate 5 daily to enjoy the sangat’s sufferings and humiliation meted out. I hope the distressed and humiliated sangat doesn’t disappoint me with their serene, happy, smiling faces.
What do you think? Will this sangat also disappoint me just like the privileged yet grumbling NRIs do?
YOU: When GSD is running RSSB Beas how can he involved in running Religare Health and be implicated by Indian courts for financial embezzlement to the tune of one Billion US dollars.
Is this not a conflict of interest even under ordinary circumstances?
ME: There is no conflict of interest in running RSSB and Religare Health(if he did). If you believe there is one, kindly cite the extant Indian legislations. Also anything that indicates GSD was running the companies?
YOU: But he is running a religious organization and he should follow at least what he preaches his disciples of honest living and not marking money by illegal means
ME: why should he? Does he ever say he follows what he preaches on these matters? Your problem if you start expecting this of him. He is there to simply tell you what’s good for you and what’s not and what needs to be done for God realisation. This whole website seems to exist only because of what a few individuals think he should be doing and not doing. As if they themselves are an epitome of obedience. People can’t even refrain from carrying their phones into the satsang shed.
Rajinder Sharma wants to enjoy all the benefits of dera and then keep criticising the holy place. Jis thaali mein khata hai usee mein moot ta hai, namak haraam saala lol
I have been following your feeds about rssb in India and UK. The story of Osho robbins been beaten (i would say, i would believe it). the money things happening in India about rssb, i would say, I do not know any thing. But many different things happen here in uk.
Many girls of the higher up sewadar are struggling with the way they are treated. Many old men in haynes park do many silly things with girls which have gone un reported to any one in the outside world. I know you will not believe me. But there are many old age volunteers who do funny things with young women and girls. But most importantly if you do not believe. You will not even understand how girls are suppressed by their own family. They cannot marry on their own. And the ones who do, then they have to face the heat. Like around 3 years ago, A daughter (of the same higher up Sewadar/volunteer, who had beaten up Osho robbins. (I would say that higher up sewadar’s, brother’s daughter) She was not allowed to get married to a guy of her choice, and was forced to marry the guy whom the guru had selected for her to get married to. Things got out of hand big fight ensued and the girls parents were even arrested by police. After a lot of problems the guy and girl are now married happily. But only after being thrown out of sewa and other regular activities of haynes park. They are a good friend, i know very well what they have gone through. Like every time when they came to haynes every women would fight and shower abuses. Only to make that higher up sewadar happy. so that they will be rewarded by good fame in haynes and higher posts. Funny it is, but true.
but all this, i know no one will believe, but that same Higher up sewadars family girls are the ones who know the truth. The guy and girl now live in Leicester.
yes rssb has got a few higher up sewadar who do things as it pleases them. So if things happening in India about the money trail who knows how far who all is involved. How far such higher up sewadars and family are involved. But the police and courts are very close to cracking. Hope one day the Local UK haynes park will be looked into and Sick mentality of forced marriage of girls will be stopped and such daughters will be free.
i did not knew how to create a new headlined post, so wrote it here.
Mr singh
I saw them look at girls with folded hands. When you ain’t got steak at home you look for chips outside . Meaning if your woman at home is not attractive they try it outside. Half of them blokes dont have a fuck in them. Lol
Men in pubs do it. That place haynes needs to be shut down.
Wow. This raises soooo many questions.
First of all, GSD advises who people should marry????
Secondly, why do we even need these centers? I agree with Arjuna. That place needs to be shut down.
I bet the sevadar with gradeur in his fantasy was called Prem Ratu.
I find Osho Robbins, Crime of the century a bit staged,
By that I mean, for me he seemed to write the beginning of a script and put it into ACTION he may have also written the end of the script but the reality of his actions ( taking a mobile phone out turning on record and then 5 minutes later dropping it, I have too think these action where meant to happen this way, and so other peoples action took over his action) and took the path that they took, he was no longer writing the script just another actor on the stage.
The fact that he went back the next day rings of I didn’t get what I want, I am sorry to hear that he got assaulted, that is most un cool, so did he decide to take that to the police and make it formal ? These things happened a few years ago now so is he still banned ? Action is Karma,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,