Open Thread 29 (free speech for comments)

“Listen to the tale of love, O loving soul!
Serve the Guru with love and devotion and sacrifice yourself to his darshan again and again.
The words of the Guru captivate the disciple’s heart, as the sweet babbling of an infant thrills a doting mother.
As a man in love adores his sweetheart, a gurmukh is enraptured by the form of his Guru.
Eating or drinking, sleeping or awake, or going about the business life, the Guru’s form never leaves his mind.
He feels the pangs of love as if an arrow were constantly piercing his heart.
A gurmukh who has cultivated such love for the Guru will realize the supreme purpose of life.
Until a disciple is inspired by this kind of love for the Guru, he should be considered worldly and self-indulgent.
The manmukh just drifts through life, belonging to no one.
How can he obtain spiritual wealth?
Radha Soami proclaims to one and all: hold fast to Guru’s hand now – in this very life.” -Soami Ji

And, BTW, I think the old Satsangar has a creepy vibe. Sorry, but maybe there is something to the old folk tales about villagers believing the grounds of Dera were haunted way back when. Isn’t that why Jaimal Singh got it for free? Do I have the right guru? He was the one who lived in the mud hut, right?
But maybe there’s no such thing as ghosts or demons. Maybe there’s only fairies and angels and love and light in the world. And unicorns.

Is their any evidence for his claim as to being an ‘expert’ in this area or is what he believes to be a true Saint merely in line with his own narrow moralistic beliefs of what a saint ought to be, rather than having any idea of what a saint actually is.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 04, 2020 at 04:54 AM
What’s your definition of a Saint?

Sonia
Dunno if I should respond. If you mention suicide again – I’m out.
I don’t think there is a definition or type. That is why I want to know how the great expert Pastor Spence knows what a True Saint is. Certainly I doubt they’d have many (if any) of the syrupy-sweet Christian moralities of our churchless pastor.
These outer qualities are mostly superficial and culturally determined. Instead, the one inner quality I think they might all have in common is ‘selfless unconditional love and kindness’ – but not of the sort most ppl including myself are even vaguely familiar.
Most ppl like to think they are good, kind and selfless, but in reality virtually no human is, despite I think being capable of selfless love maybe more than any animal. I’m not taking about programmed ‘altruist’ phenotypes or learned behaviors. What might look to be a sweet syrupy act of goodness, humility or benevolence might be self-serving (and sometimes unconsciously so). The sheep dressed in wolves clothing.
I think the closest we get to this ‘unconditional love’ is certain rare parents or lovers who would take a bullet for their beloved without hesitation – and much more. I think even this type of love is extremely rare, tho many outwardly profess to it. I think saintly love if it exists would be of a different magnitude altogether and extend to all things, but It needs another element – it needs to be a love guided by a deep intuitive wisdom / understanding of what is best for the being that the saint is dealing with. So selfless love can be unhelpful if it’s foolish. You don’t give the spoiled child an endless trust fund – he’ll destroy himself. I think it’s virtually impossible for any human to have both these qualities, which is why I suspect Saints are rarer than hen’s teeth (if they exist at all).
I know ppl who outwardly have bad tempers, that don’t give a good gdam about playing nice or having a ‘nice bedside manner’. They def wont whisper sweet nothings into your ear to boost your deflated ego, especially if a deflating was needed in the first place, yet in my experience are sometimes also capable of great wisdom and almost indescribable kindness. I suspect it’s often these ppl that are infintely closer to being Real Saints (if this exists at all) than the sterile kumbaya kissy-kissy brigade. So I think it’s far more likely that a true saint is likely to be a sheep in wolf’s clothing, rather than the other way around.
But let’s take a recent real-world example. Despite many being touched by how you felt the other day – the one person who had the most to offer with the least to say was the satsangi who simply offered to come talk to you in person (4 lines outa Texas). If I was measuring selfless goodness, I’d go for the actions of the selfless satsangi over the syrupy words of the self-involved ex-satsangi. I think saints don’t even want to be measured – they want it private and anonymous – no ego, recognition or superficiality involved at all.
You asked, thats my opinion. Don’t get all over-sensitive about it. I don’t mind if you have a different opinion.

Georgy,
I watched 4 documentaries last night about people who had been through years of captive imprisonment and torture. I don’t normally ever watch anything dark light that. I’m not into horror stories. I don’t even know what drove me to watch it last night. But seeing the way these people came out of their horrific ordeals with such a strong desire to help others and with their ability to appreciate life was a transformative moment for me.
If I ever complain about anything again, just slap me.
Except for the panic attacks—those were the literal definition of hell and cannot be described—but they weren’t because of anyone, they were just my own bit of karma. Really, really, really shitty, but karma nonetheless. I don’t know… the thing about those experiences is that even though they were as bad as any kind of pain or fear could ever be experienced, they didn’t have effects that lasted beyond the moment. Because nothing was actually seen or heard during those moments—there was “nothing”. Just being cut off from the life source itself. It’s impossible to explain. But even if they lasted for several hours, when it was over they didn’t leave any “scars” because “nothing” happened and there wasn’t a torturer. Again, impossible to explain.
But nothing else that I’ve experienced or been through or lost in my life is of any significance compared to what those people went through. I kept asking myself last night wtf am I watching this stuff?! Normally I’d never watch anything as horrible as that even though they were documentaries. And when it was over, I just felt embarrassed for complaining about stuff. I understood why I needed to see it. And these survivors… wow. They are so inspiring. They are incredibly, amazing individuals.
That said, thanks for your thoughts about what a Saint is. I understand what you are saying and can appreciate a lot of it but I also, have several thoughts on that matter (naturally). I spent too much time writing about the other stuff and got a call—right now I have to go see Chloe!!! I’ll put my thoughts together about your comments and respond later.

Yip I don’t understand that kind of terror or panic attack. Depression I can kind of understand but does complaining about it help any? I don’t think it does.
Maybe you should be watching comedies, rather than horror documentaries, or maybe something uplifting from your generation:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Coee656uPCk

Georgy Porgy you say “I’d go for the actions of the selfless satsangi over the syrupy words of the self-involved ex-satsangi.”
Assuming you mean me when I said to Sonia: “About depression, my heart goes out to you”.
Some people seem to despise platitudes even though they can be genuine and the truest thing a person is saying to another, especially from someone who does have a heart and empathy for others.

My generation?? 😂 I do remember singing all of the songs in grade school, though. It’s a classic.
Well, it was odd, last night one documentary popped up on YouTube and intrigued me so I just watched it. Normally I wouldn’t be able to. Normally it would just be too upsetting. But for some reason I was a bit removed and detached enough to watch those documentaries. I won’t keep watching those types much in future. But I really needed to see them last night. It shifted my perspective dramatically and suddenly.
I think the best way for people to stop feeling sorry for themselves is to help others—community service, volunteering, helping a neighbor or family member or friend. It kind of smacks you in the face in a good way and reminds you that everyone struggles at one time or another. This world is full of challenges. Self pity doesn’t help anyone. There’s definitely a time for grieving and healing but self-pity is a completely different thing. It’s a self-destructive monster. Oprah agrees.
As far as A Course in Miracles goes, I experienced a real eye opener this week. I read a few things on the internet that made me curious about the author/scribe so I found a biography about her which also contained pieces of her own autobiography and notes. She was an only child from an affluent Jewish family in New York. She struggled her whole life with depression and anxiety. And she had and intense search for God which took her from Theosophy to becoming a Baptist, then Agnostic then Atheist then New Age Christian and finally Catholic at the end of her life. She was a highly complex, highly intelligent individual who was extremely driven. But she was driven more by a fear of failure than a desire to succeed. Anyway, after graduate school she became a Professor of Medical Psychology at Columbia University.
She was difficult. She was compassionate. She had a split mind. In truth, I think she likely suffered from schizo-affective disorder. I don’t think A Course in Miracles is a spiritual book. I think it was the author reconciling her two personalities. She could be extremely critical, harsh and scathing. And she had all kinds of phobias. ACIM, in my opinion was essentially her “talking to herself”. It was her subconscious way of trying to come to terms with her two conflicting personalities and cope with all of her fears, anxieties and phobias. The language in the book does not reflect her personality at all. She was extremely blunt and abrupt by nature. Not to say that the book doesn’t have some merit to it. But I think going to a psychotherapist would be a much saner route than following ACIM as a spiritual path.
With regards to your definition of what a Saint is, I agree that one doesn’t have to be syrupy sweet nor should they be harsh. Flattery is fun sometimes but too much flattery inflates the ego. The primary role of a Saint (according to Sant Mat) is to help souls reach self realization/God realization through meditation. And to teach seekers how to correct behavior in their lives that is impeding their spiritual growth. But the responsibility lies in the hands of the individual. You can lead a horse to water and then you can drown them (haha). No, seriously, as far as helping people goes it’s better to be natural. Not harsh, judgmental, sugary sweet. Just natural. The best parents do this. They have this sort of unspoken natural confidence-building way of communicating. It encourages the child without inflating their ego. And inflating the ego ultimately makes the child just as insecure as berating them.
But each individual has their own personality and unique way of communicating. Just look at the 5 gurus of Beas—very different personalities indeed.
Communication, both verbal and non verbal, is something everyone should continue to work on till the day they die. Kinder is better. But it should just be natural.
However, a movie without strong characters would be pretty boring…
If you want strong fix-it advice go to a guy. If you want someone to comfort you go to a woman. Those are gross stereotypes which fit less and less with each new generation. However, there is truth in it. Yin Yang. Balance.
Empowerment. That’s the key. Empower people. Give people confidence that they can do what they need to do. Don’t give them a crutch (unless they really do have a broken leg). Just love and encouragement. At the end of the day, we’re all responsible for our own actions.
You have a strong personality… so do I and so do a lot of people. It’s pretty obvious when you look at all the commenters here. However, because I’m not inside of other people’s minds I don’t know what drives them or what fears or experiences have shaped the way that they communicate. It annoys me tremendously when people jump straight into denial when faced with dark truths. But I’ve learned for many it’s a coping mechanism. A lot of the way people communicate has to do with self preservation. It really is that primal. Not primal in a bad way—just how we both connect and protect ourselves at the same time.
Now I’m going to watch Sound of Music. I don’t think I’ve ever seen all of it. Just bits and pieces. It looks happy. 😄

No Jen I wasn’t thinking if you, but mr syrup. Platitudes are fine if genuine, but I was amazed that your namesake from Texas would actually travel across the US to go speak to someone she doesn’t know from a bar of soap cos she was concerned for her wellbeing.
Sonia I just think ppl over complicate their lives with too much BS. Split personality, psychotherapy, neurotic this or that – forget it all. What did the guru say – all you need is to be a good person – and that is pretty much right imo.

Hi Sonia
You wrote
“I think the best way for people to stop feeling sorry for themselves is to help others—community service, volunteering, helping a neighbor or family member or friend. It kind of smacks you in the face in a good way and reminds you that everyone struggles at one time or another. ”
It’s for our own benefit. We get so much from helping others. Not proselytizing. Not flying across the country to convert someone in distress to our religion. Nor to another country of poor people with food and bibles looking to convert them to our religion.
Real selfless service, where you don’t care how someone looks or acts, you don’t care about their politics or beliefs, whether they are a nice person or not. You don’t reject them because they are blind, or have abused drugs, or even if they were a thief or a murderer. None of these things matter. You don’t say “I’ll help you but I won’t help her.”
You just volunteer, you just go and help in any way you can, hoping, but never quite knowing whether you are actually helping or not. You go, in fact further, where no one else will go. You change the diapers of an obese psychiatric patient in hospital. You clean their feces and vomit spread like finger painting on the walls, as a volunteer.
Because there is a human being there, in there, under all that…
Then you sit with them in their calmer moments, you watch TV with them, play checkers with them. Even when their mental capacity is so low they have no language at all.
It’s a different perspective. A better one.
You become more and less because of it.

But what you gain most is understanding. The fact they have no language, once you get to know them, explains their frustration, their outburst, and under that frustration their own panic and terror, and their only means to communicate these, that they actually realize their imprisonment. And your gentle hand is their momentary escape. Then you want to help them escape as often as you can. And that also becomes your escape.
You are both the beneficiary. In some of those moments you are both the same. In those moments, you are free.

I liked the sper Bowl vid too
Remember great Byoncéé
Proof of :
It is impossible to find God outside of ourselves.
We are the greatest temple.
— Swami Vivekananda

Sonia I just think ppl over complicate their lives with too much BS. Split personality, psychotherapy, neurotic this or that – forget it all. What did the guru say – all you need is to be a good person – and that is pretty much right imo.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 12:11 AM
Georgy, I feel like you missed my point entirely.
I was simply explaining how I replaced RSSB with ACIM and after further investigation discovered the real truth (as I understand it) about ACIM which has been credited by many as leading the beginning of the New Age movement. And since ACIM claims to have be channeled by an entity, it’s important to understand the mental state of the “scribe”. Understanding that is what led me to the conclusion that ACIM wasn’t worth following as a “spiritual” path.
It was a very important step for me.
I put a lot of time and thought into that comment.
Now I’m really curious as to what your definition of a “good person” is. I get that your mind doesn’t do deep analysis and perhaps you’re more prone to denial than facing dark truths, but you should respect the fact that we all learn differently.
You want everyone to fit your mold. People are unique and if you don’t take the time to understand people, you’re not going to be a good teacher of anything.
I hope you’re not too offended.

Georgy, now you’re pushing me to the point of atheism. Maybe that was your intention all along.

Hi Spence,
I completely agree. No quid pro quo. 😂

Georgy, maybe what’s holding you back spiritually is the fact that you’re an idiot.
And as an idiot you shouldn’t be teaching anyone anything of any kind.
I can’t tell if your brain is suffering from fatigue or if it’s just underdeveloped.

Georgy,
It’s self-righteous, simple minded people like you that are so easily impressed by this guru. I get your attraction to him. He suffers from mental and emotional fatigue. I can’t tell what you’re suffering from but your lack of empathy and understanding equate to the same problem that GSD has.
Clearly you don’t spend much time on introspection, but at some point you’re going to have to face the cold hard fact that you are self righteous as all fuck.

This is exactly why I didn’t follow that guru. He’s arrogant and self righteous. And he attracts the same type of people.
I had a profound realization about ACIM the day before yesterday and today Ive had a profound realization about your guru/RSSB today. It is run by and attracts arrogant, self-righteous people who don’t like to think much.
At this point, I’m just disgusted with philosophical, spiritual or religious fanatics of any kind.

Wow. This has certainly been the week of rapid self-discovery.
I am officially an agnostic theist. I’m so exhausted with the arrogant certainty of religion and organized spirituality. It’s arrogance. It’s annoying. It’s destructive. It aggravates mental illness.
There. Done. Thank you.

Dear Sonia,
What makes you want to go to Dera?
I do’nt think that your questions become answered..
If you go because and with husband is a different cooki.
How you describe GSD ..
Then I think what the….you want go there then?

Sonia
Stop moaning. Akuna Matada. I personally couldn’t give a shit if you joined ACIM, Juicing 4 Justice or the Moonies. Do whatever makes you happy.
You’ve left the rssb , fine. A party 🎉, go get pissed, just stop the bitchin.
Newsflash – You’ve got zero resilience, and dunno what to do with yourself every time you poke the bear and get some home truths you go off into some kind of wierd neurotic state. Just fk off already. Do whatever you want. I couldn’t care less.

To Sonia,
And I also had severe panic attacts in Dera!
Difficult to talk about that,it was terrible.
It had to do with old karma and paying back..
The circel of transmigration..and my dearly non satsangi kids and friends etc..
That stuff.. chaurasi.. frightened me to death.
Nobody understood the impact it had on me and agony..:(..so lonely I was there then..
Scatered and frightened…
I had that more times..
I am so happy that the teachings are gone for me!!!
The love stays that I have learned from Maharaji..
I must give credit to Babaji about that he loosened up about the chaurasi etc..
But it is not consistent,because satsang sewadars and books still tell the sort of same old stuff.
If I hear about that in satsangs sometimes when I go there( I still do at times)..
It does’nt touch me anymore at all..
Now I am ashtonished about the impact it had on me.
I was 19 when I started with Santmat and my parents and whole family became satsangi’s.
My father was extremely dominant and always angry in my youth so..maybe trough that fact I had these extreem reactions..
I am very happy it’s just totaly off me..( the teachings)

Just fk off already. Do whatever you want. I couldn’t care less.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 09:50 AM
Clearly.

How you describe GSD ..
Then I think what the….you want go there then?
Posted by: s* | February 05, 2020 at 09:48 AM
Yes, you’re absolutely right. I was an agnostic theist before I got married. It’s the only thing that made sense to me. I would never have married my husband if I had known he was part of an organized religion which RSSB is. And I mean that in all sincerity. He knew it too which is why he hid it from me.
But after several years I gave RSSB a try. People like Georgy piss me off because they attack everyone on this blog who isn’t RSSB. I’m so tired of him attacking Spence and then today he attacked Jen. For someone who’s so in love with his “not guru” and completely indecisive about whether or not he even wants to join it, he certainly does have contempt for anyone who doesn’t worship and adore GSD as much as he does. Then again, Jesse is probably right. I’m sure Georgy is actually an RSSB initiate doing his form of “seva” by bashing everyone who doesn’t agree with RSSB.
Almost all Satsangis share his attitude which is the same attitude his stupid guru has.
I’m not RSSB. Your IQ has to be below a certain number and your ego has to be inflated in order to really belong in that organization.

Love has no place in RSSB.
I’m going to “fuck off” now. Something no one has ever, ever, ever said to me before (other than Gurinder).

Georg-y,
Wtf are you on this blog??? Seriously. Wtf are you trying to achieve??? Go to http://www.idontknowwtftodo.com

GP (BTW I can’t stand that name)
“Saints” do not exist. Not anymore than unicorns and leprechauns. We’re all flawed individuals. It’s just that some of us are honest with ourselves and willing to admit it—willing to keep trying to learn more. Nobody dies a perfect person. No one is perfect.
You’re the kind of guy that becomes a wife beater. Don’t EVER get married.
Resilient? You don’t even know the definition of the word.
People like you are the very reason people get turned off by religion and fanatic cultish spirituality.

Georgy is an Ass. As I said I would have loved to meet him and they guys who hit osho at Haynes.
Nothing like a good bout of violence to teach people humility and love.
Sonia . Ignore him

Georgy is an Ass. As I said I would have loved to meet him and they guys who hit osho at Haynes.
Nothing like a good bout of violence to teach people humility and love.
Sonia . Ignore him
Posted by: Arjuna | February 05, 2020 at 11:40 AM
So true. I just don’t understand why people come here to be so critical of those who don’t follow RSSB anymore.
The fact is, a lot of the people here probably would still be involved with RSSB if it weren’t such a loveless organization with loveless devotees following a loveless guru.
I think it’s Stockholm Syndrom in my case.
I wish Georgy would get initiated, stop being a coward and take the plunge. Only then would he have the right to defend the guru and the organization. But right now it’s COMPLETELY hypocritical. If he were initiated and came to the realization that it’s no different than being in a really bad marriage then he wouldn’t be going on his usual rant about what a “true Saint” is and how being an asshole doesn’t exclude someone from being GIHF.
OK, I’m going to get back to work and take a break from this for a while.

Sorry, Georgy. I hope YOU are resilient. LOL
I really am sorry. Not everyone can handle my rants. But that doesn’t mean I think you’re a saint either. My husband is ex South African special forces. He led a platoon of mercenaries and I sometimes forget that not everyone is used to no-holds-barred bluntness…
Here we go…
https://youtu.be/oDD3I0uOlqY
After all, did say you didn’t mind if I don’t agree with you. LOL

@Arjuna
See this simple explanation of Sant Mat
I mean : close to earth : etheric akashic explanation
But when she speaks @ 18:23 about digital Zeros & Ones
it should be analogue 27Qubits Ofc
Living In A Simulated Reality, The Amazing Scientific Proof…Who Created it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46JGNvFrtUw
I m half way
I hope she describes the goal as Total Love
and ‘hurt’ will besuppressed
777

Arjuna,
Who hit Osho at Haynes Park??
Jesus! 😧

Just for the record, Jen from Austin wasn’t going to travel across the country for me. She said if I was in her area (Bay Area) that she’d meet me. I know you’re not that familiar with the US but when you’re looking at a map the left side of the United States (West) is where the Bay Area is and I live on the other side—the East (right side of the map).
What is ‘selfless unconditional love and kindness’?
Let’s just start with kindness.
OK, I readily admit I’m not a “nice” person but I do care about all the people here because I’ve sort of gotten to know them over the year. They are in fact nice people—selfless people who often display acts of unconditional love.
I know that GSD is extremely defensive about ppl comparing him to Charan Singh because Charan was gentler, kinder and outwardly appeared to be more loving. I don’t know what he really thinks about HIS Master, but he has done everything in his power to be just the opposite which leads one to the logical conclusion that not all Masters are the same and they certainly haven’t merged into one being.
Just something to think about…

You just come try your bout of violence mr forces and we’ll see just who is humbled or not.
I dunno where that came from, but you another flip-flopper. I’m loyal to my friends. Fkme who needs enemies with this bunch of psitzho wierdos.

“At this point, I’m just disgusted with philosophical, spiritual or religious fanatics of any kind.”
Sonia, your comments make me smile and cheer me up. I love that you communicate so honestly and show your feelings. Thats females isn’t it, we can be very emotional beings. Don’t worry too much about finding out who and what you are. Just be yourself. I’ve come to the realisation that trying to change myself just doesn’t work anyway and I can’t be bothered with labelling myself as this or that, I am just me with all my faults and as for life, It is what it is.

Has she fkd off yet ?
or they still crying over and over and over again …
Jesus Christ almighty, what a Gdam bunch of sad sacks … I dunno whose worst actually.

Yip look at all the angst and falsehoods being spread – I’m now a wifebeater.
Check them all go.
You lot are railing at yourselves. You all in for the high jump – it’s coming , you both know it better than me. It’s got nothing to do with me.
You’re basically all a big mess and such a bunch of whinging sad sacks. For gd sake fk off from rssb and stay fkd off , they having a party as we speak – the magnificent 7 are busting huge moves the more of you leave the better.
Wahoo party 🎉!!!
Oh shit my favorite song has come on: ice ice baby…

@ Jen
Of course you cannot change .. the the crow doesn’t, nor the Nightingale or the eagle … nor the roses, the butterflies …. they all witness this world as they are.
Cultural we change, not natural.
Our natural being, being more than just the bones and the flesh.
Our culture is an cover-up like clothes cover the naked body and protect it from heat and cold.
It is not so easy to figure out what and who we are without that social-cultural cover, other wise people would not so easy lose their lives for nothing or kill one another.

Yip now I’m a wifebeater, can you believe it! Unvelievable.
This is precisely why this website of propaganda and falsehoods needs free speech. Just who are the trolls and bad guys in this sordid mess?
Next she’ll breakdown sure as clockwork, ball her eyes out promising to top herself, then be self-reflective for a brief instant, then pseudo-resilient until bored/unhappy and the whole Gdam soap opera schpiel of false accusations and groundless blame will start all over again.
Oh it’s okay we must just accept her, she’s going through a tough time. Bullshit – these are outright lies being propagated.
Is it just my imagination or are there an awful lot of cry-baby special forces on here. It’s like napoleons grand Armee – only problem is they all such sadsacK cry babies. If you think I’m afraid of you, you got another thing coming.
You fools should instead be paying for my counseling services. Yup that what I’m doing. I mean who in their right mind what put up with your BS? If I was the guru I’d tell you all to fk off and stay fkd off, and we’d all hold a massive party 🎉 with the magnificent 7 busting moves on the dancefloor.
By all means act tough, act clever, cry like babies 🍼, cast falsehoods and untruths on others – if it helps you sad sacks , go for it. Still you know the truth in what I say and that the High jump is coming for you – it’s unavoidable. You know it better than me.
Judas central.

Georgy hi
I live and work in the Bay Area for now so I offered Sonia to meet up if she was local. Though I wouldn’t hesitate to travel to help a fellow human being in need. Sonia’s message did sound like a cry for help and this is why I chimed in. This is the purpose of why we are here….to realize our true self and to be of help to one another. Atleast that is what I have learned from my Guru. He says it’s about being human. 😊

Georgy
Congratulations you have triggered the same reaction from Sonia that she had when she had the conversation with the guru. It’s basically coming from not hearing what she WANTED to hear. So get ready to be the target of multiple posts about how horrible you are. Jerk, arrogant, wife beater, self righteous blah blah blah Good luck. Haha
She has been posting this way from a very long time now. First under Sarah then Sonya b and not Sonia t. The sad thing is she uses this platform and gullible people who don’t know any better may actually believe her and what she says about the guru. (And now you) 😳

Jen from Austin
Yes I may look like a prick but I can still see goodness from a mile off.
Shalini
Yep same old lies and falsehoods.
I don’t actually mind if what they are saying about the guru is true / I’d like to hear it, but this fking outright slander is shameful – there’s not an iota of truth, honesty or sincerity to any of them. I got no time for liars.

Don’t know who the Magnificent 7 are. People keep referencing them… 🤔

Anyhoo, the corona virus… this is almost apocalyptic. https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-05-20-intl-hnk/index.html

@s*
I’m so glad those trying days and panic attacks are behind you. I agree with you. You seem to have a really balanced perspective on the whole situation. 🙂
I think we should trust our gut feelings more. It’s interesting, police have said time and time again that they run into that problem so frequently—people who report ignoring their “gut instincts” and then becoming a victim of crime. That’s why you’ll always get the advice from a police officer to listen to your gut. If it doesn’t feel right, be extra cautious. Don’t try to over think it or rationalize it. Just step away.

@Jen,
Yess… I think meditating at the Shambalah center every now and then is about as close to “devotion” as I can stand to get right now. 😅
Now I have to go register as an Independent…

Look, Georgy, bottom line is I feel like the core of your message is that a “Saint” or guru doesn’t need to be nice or treat people with kindness.
I find this antithetical to the very nature of love.

If that’s truly how you feel then you must appreciate that everything I said to you today was an act of loving kindness. It’s not what you wanted to hear but it’s what you needed to hear.

No one likes getting a taste of their own medicine, but remember the time your guru told a group of people that Sheena had been sleeping around a bunch even though that was a lie. According to you and your guru that was for her own good… for her “spiritual“ development.
Sit with that for a while.

Hi Shalini
You write
“The sad thing is she uses this platform and gullible people who don’t know any better may actually believe her and what she says about the guru. (And now you) 😳”
May I suggest that people can read the exchange and form their own opinions.
But who are these people you are so worried about?
Have you fed any of them lately?
Maybe what is disturbing is the lack of compassion some display here, who are supposed to be Satsangis.
You see, Shalini, whatever anyone says about Gurinder only carries so much weight. But the behavior of his supporters towards his detractors is direct evidence.
When you attack someone, for any reason, whether it is Gurinder or Sonia, or Georgy, you set in motion a karmic wave that has its own life.
But what led you to make the attack?
You may blame Sonia for your decision to attack her. But it is your decision to enter that karmic web and introduce you own attacks back.
Georgy may blame Sonia or I for his decision to attack her or others, but it is his decision to enter that karmic web and make his own attacks. I actually am encouraging Georgy to take initiation. He would enjoy Gurinder’s company within, and never feel the need to react in anger towards people he has never met and doesn’t understand. But I get Georgy. He’s a simple guy with a simple set of rules.
But Sonia is very clear that she is hurt. Her attacks stem from her vulnerability and pain, and what she feels was mistreatment. We should help her heal her wounds first. And that starts with listening, and honoring her view as 100% accurate from her perspective. No amendments, no attempt to move that anywhere or fix that. 100% acceptance.
Just as you, Shalini, must accept, 100%, your Karma. No point reacting about it. It’s yours and no one else’s. Just as Georgy must accept his Karma. The praise he receives and the blend he receives. It’s his and no one else’s.
So now Georgy and you indulge in mistreatment. And actually take what was just helping someone through their pain, and now elevating that, giving life and foundation to her claim.
You see, even a Sonia has no axe to grind about Gurinder. She is in pain, that is all. And she has been mistreated.
You and Georgy are trying to make her wrong, and reacting angrily.
But Maharaji said on more than one occasion that we generally view others as wrong when we don’t agree with them. He asked, “does anyone ever think they are wrong?” and “how does it help to tell someone they are wrong?”
Shalini, have you considered you might be wrong?
I’m wrong every day. I don’t even have a choice. I’m confronted with it every day.
Who has the luxury to indulge in some fantasy that they are free of that condition?
Even if Gurinder spoke harshly on occasion, it only makes him human. Sonia hasvsaid as much.
But some cannot tolerate the notion that Gurinder is all too human, just like the rest of us. There is nothing wrong with that, except to those who need him to be God. And out of that need to believe Gurinder is perfect, they react angrily and make accusations over some very small things.
My mom taught me a very important lesson, “God made all the trees
They come from him. None are perfect.”
So when someone is hurt, and they are your brother or sister, you put aside your judgment and you help them through their pain. Gurinder is big enough to tolerate the anger of those he may have hurt. But are you big enough to have compassion?
Maharaji also taught that it is better to have only one angry person under a roof and not two. So why react in anger?
“Many a man would rather that you simply heard his story than grant his request.”
Philip of Stanhope
The best way to prove who Gurinder is, at least for you, is to act that way.
And the best way to give Gurinder the reputation he already enjoys of being reactive, angry and hurtful is for his supporters to behave that way. Which some of them have no problem displaying.
Try endless compassion. I heard about it from Gurinder and Maharaji a few times within and at Satsang.

Bottomline I think you are totally and completely certifiable and everyone is far better off with you away from rssb / guru.
And it’s also what you want so we are all now v happy.
Party.. 🎉 🎊… Ice ice baby…

What is this fool wittering on about again – can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill.

The v persecutor and executioner is now envoking the law of karma – am I reading this right? Is it stunningly blind ignorance or just the funniest thing you ever heard. His son is helped by the v saint he’s hellbent on persecuting And he’s lecturing on karma. You can’t make it up.
All in for the high jump, no doubt.

Georgy, just join Ashby at I Hate Church of the Churchless.

Bottomline I think you are totally and completely certifiable and everyone is far better off with you away from rssb / guru.
And it’s also what you want so we are all now v happy.
Party.. 🎉 🎊… Ice ice baby…
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 11:23 PM
At this point, I don’t think RSSB would take you…
I feel really sorry for you. I know that sounds condescending, but I do truly feel sorry for you.

Georgy,
You should stop speaking for RSSB and their guru. You’re not an initiate and they have enough problems as it is. You’re an embarrassment to RSSB if people think devoted Satsangis act like you. Seriously, just stop.
There are a lot of decent Satsangis and your behavior doesn’t even come close to representing that. I may not like the organization but for the sake of all the sane and decent people who still belong to it, stop trying to speak for the guru or RSSB. You aren’t a Satsangi. And Satsangis aren’t anything like you. In fact, no conscientious person is.
You’ve said that you’ve never been initiated, you aren’t sure if you even believe in Saints, and not sure if you ever will get initiated because you don’t want to give up meat and alcohol and all of the other stuff you’re not supposed to do in order to get initiated.
You couldn’t be farther from being a Satsangi if you tried. Just stop representing them.
At least I’m truly honest about my feelings and who I am and I don’t hide behind some made up name. I’m not involved with RSSB, but you are as far away from that organization as anyone can be. I mean, you won’t get initiated simply because you don’t want to quit drinking and eating meat and sleeping around. How can you possibly condemn the rest of us?? You’re behavior is textbook schizophrenic.
Now, if you actually are a Satsangi and you’re on here with this made up name and made up story about who you are and you’re trying to defend the guru with your cursing, crudeness and continual bashing, well… that just looks REALLY, REALLY bad for them. Sadly enough, that’s probably closer to the truth. Either way you make RSSB and the Guru look really bad.

What is this fool wittering on about again – can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 05, 2020 at 11:57 PM
Normally I always have a sense of humor—even when I’m angry I can still laugh about stuff.
But none of this is funny anymore. It’s just sad. It’s really, really sad the way you’re reacting. I don’t understand what your problem is. Again, I truly feel sorry for you. But you do need to stop trying to represent RSSB and the guru for everyone’s sake.

Thank you – no need to feel sorry for me. Just ignore me, I’ll be fine. Happy as a camper.
You the one crying consistently

No need to feel sorry – me and the 7 are partying 🎊 🎈 … ice ice baby….
Don’t worry bout me, you must rather speak to syrupy Spence , forces Arjuna and kumbaya ACIM going forward – much better for everyone

The v persecutor and executioner is now envoking the law of karma – am I reading this right? Is it stunningly blind ignorance or just the funniest thing you ever heard. His son is helped by the v saint he’s hellbent on persecuting And he’s lecturing on karma. You can’t make it up.
All in for the high jump, no doubt.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 12:07 AM
Georgy, Spence was actually somewhat defending GSD. I mean, he was being very respectful of him at least. What did Spence sat that made you think he’s “hellbent on persecuting” Gurinder?

Sonia says: “Again, I truly feel sorry for you.”
Sonia, I feel sorry for you actually. That you are so naive as to fall for Spence’s syrupy, condescending and totally deceptive comments. Talk about a snake oil salesman!
You say: “Spence was actually somewhat defending GSD.” Spence has never been a satsangi and never will be. He is a religious person and is spending his time on this blog simply to preach his own gospel. He is a trickster and it takes some time to see through his game. A few of us have realised how insincere he is and the game he is playing.

Gdam you are like a lost puppy I can’t get rid of.
Please go out there and embrace life. Throw your sadsack state of ‘woe is me’ away once and for all. Or else just hit the bottle and stop complaining – but just give me some peace already.
Dear lord I know I’ve not spoken to you recently or maybe ever but if you could grant me the serenity of getting this nutter off my back, I’d be eternally thankful, oh and it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to win the lottery also, but rather the first one if had to choose. 🙏 GP

Sonia
Be careful with people like Spence. Sometimes you will look and “what a jerk”. His words against the master.
Be very careful I know you are enthusiastic but you are also very naive sister
A gospel preacher on an atheists site? Go figure

Hi Jen
I’m not sure why you continue to spread false accusations about me. I was initiated in Riverside California at the home of the local Sangat Secretary,
Dr. Roland DeVries (Doctor of divinity) in July, 1980. I remember the day I received my letter of acceptance, March 27th, 1980. As I opened the letter, I saw at that exact moment the news on my little black and white TV showed the billowing explosion of Mt. St. Helen’s volcano. The Master was Burning my Karma for me! At least one huge portion of it!
I was brought to the path by Thomas Curtis when I was living in Northridge California, attending the University there.
You can view the video I made in homage to my mystic friend and mentor Tommy, after he passed away here…
https://youtu.be/mjpH0NRa1D0
I’m not sure why you indulge in false accusations. It’s not very enlightened.
But it seems to be an almost automatic thing with you. And yet in your other personality you are very wise and Zen like! Where did my sister, Zen Jen go?
I’m praying for you, Jen.
Affectionately
Spence

Hi Georgy
You write
“can someone pls summarize the sermon on the mount no 341 to a sentence or 2? I can’t read all that syrupy preaching, makes one ill.”
I’m sorry Georgy but I can’t take responsibility for your illness.
However I can summarize as you have asked in two small sentances by the brilliant writer, Collette..
” Be kind. It is a way of being wise. ”

Gdam you are like a lost puppy I can’t get rid of.
Please go out there and embrace life. Throw your sadsack state of ‘woe is me’ away once and for all. Or else just hit the bottle and stop complaining – but just give me some peace already.
Dear lord I know I’ve not spoken to you recently or maybe ever but if you could grant me the serenity of getting this nutter off my back, I’d be eternally thankful, oh and it’s not too much trouble, I’d like to win the lottery also, but rather the first one if had to choose. 🙏 GP
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 12:53 PM
Still feel sorry for you

Hi Spence,
Thanks for your lovely comment. I seem to be going through an emotional crisis nowadays. What you said has helped me a lot…
“But it seems to be an almost automatic thing with you. And yet in your other personality you are very wise and Zen like! Where did my sister, Zen Jen go?
I’m praying for you, Jen.”
I’m off to see a Clinical Hypnotherapy & Psychotherapy Specialist with my daughter-in-law. The first time I saw him he helped me feel less anxious. Old age creeping on now, I just have to keep on keeping on…

There are rules to being a good helper. Rules developed by people whose job it is to help others, in any walk of life, in any situation. There is a lot of wisdom gained from a lot of experience in trying to do good works and to help people, people vastly different than ourselves. If you haven’t helped others on a regular basis, if you have never learned these rules, you may not be familiar with those rules. And then, without realizing it, you may do more harm than good. Because your own nature, what life has taught you, may not be suited to helping other people.
I think it’s great to help each other. But if it isn’t your strength please don’t react if others react unfavorably to your efforts.
You can get better at helping if you wish to work at it. There is a skill to it, like anything else. And don’t feel bad if you’re not good at it. But if that is so, then maybe be a little humble in your approach, and avoid making things worse.

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.

Hi Spencer and Osho.
As well as my readings on science I have also been exploring Zen and Chan. One of the more digestible authors for me is Zen teacher, Steve Hagen. His book ‘Buddhism Is Not What You Think’ has an enlightening take on belief. In the chapter ‘We’ve Got It All Backward’ he talks about belief. You probably know some of this, anyway, here’s some of his pointers on religion and science:-
The word religion comes from ‘religio’ which meant ‘to bind back very strongly to truth’.
It’s about seeing or experiencing Truth – not about holding a set of beliefs.
Science (scire, to know) is also about getting to truth. Religion and science should be about knowledge.
Science needs belief to function in the form of a hypothesis which is initially tested, rejected or modified and tested again until it arrives at the truth – that is relative, practical, everyday truth.
He points out “Religion is not equipped to test hypothesis” and “It needn’t and shouldn’t make hypothesis or rely on beliefs of any kind”. “In short, science is well positioned to handle belief. Religion is not.”
Quite often, when someone takes a believers point of view and another a non-believers, it can often be the case of two believers arguing there different views.
He comments on how all religions indulge in various beliefs causing “ . . . human delusion and folly.” Hence religions fight one another and science. And “. . . all religion needs to require of people is an urgent desire to know, to see, to wake up.”
Science then, is not about ultimate truth but with every day truth while religion is about waking up through direct experiencing – that is, before “ . . . beliefs, thoughts, signs, explanations, justifications, and other constructions of our minds take form”. Of course it’s all very much in the flavour of Zen but I notice that teachings in Taoism and Sufism – not to mention some findings in modern psychology, mindfulness and neuroscience – also point to an enquiry into these matters which does not require belief.

Hi Georgy
You write
“And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.”
It is true you are sick from a life of Sweets. But it has made you intolerant and easily angered by hard truths. So, there is only the softer variety for you. The stuff we feed to very small children. It comes in a jar. Has a bit of sugar in it. But this pudding was a real vegetable at one point.
And as you are ill and need to eat, please. Your Master has prepared the meal appropriate for children of your age and temperment. The sickly ones who suffer colic and are generally ill tempered and can’t get out of bed to take their first steps.
But there is nothing false in any of it.
Eat the meal you requested, Georgy. Do you not remember? How easily they forget!
And about complaining, please consider taking your own advice.

Hi Turan!
Steve Hagan sounds interesting! I’ll give him a read.
Thanks for bringing him up.
Spence

Hi Jen!
We know who the real Jen is. She is very powerful, wise and compassionate. She is enlightened, not limited in the least by any health restrictions, waiting in silence, whispering gently to you occasionally, infinitely patient through this part of the tour here. When it ends, she will be. That is why these days are of little consequence.

Hi Jen,
Best of luck with hypnotherapy and treatments (I’m not sure what else you’re taking or doing to manage this).
After your last experience with it I really want to give it a try. Just have to find someone locally that has good reviews. I’m going for more tests per doctors orders this week. But I’m not worried. Not now anyway. 🙂

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 07:37 PM
You are the Willy Wonka of all things sweet.

This sums up the ridiculousness of everything happening lately – politics and religion.
https://youtu.be/ZxIIv6uQY6k

UM offered this thought:
“” Question remains … why do They initiate people that don’t have that pull etc??
No music pedagogue will ever start teaching with a person without talent
If the music teacher had several lives for planning his lessons,
He would
Some Jeevas are initiated because some other Satsangi’s desire, even because they delivered service
or
remember the flower a Saint trapped on ( “”accidently?””_ No )
next a fine birth is arranged for them
where the necessary pull can flourish
because without Love for music nothing happens
It is good not to go in this precisely because it might give birth to “status”!
777

Spence,
I’ve been watching your video tribute to Tommy. He was really in the flow, and sovereignparrot.com is still up and running. I attended general satsang in L.A. a few times in the late 80’s. I didn’t know Maria or him, but it’s possible we were in the same room.

And Lord if they try kill me with ‘kindness’, please just not with sickly false syrup.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 06, 2020 at 07:37 PM
You’re a sociopath path and I’m an empath. We both act crazy but for completely different reasons.
You have the lowest capacity for empathy of any individual I’ve encountered.
You better get initiated before there’s a new Master that is actually sweet and kind because I know you couldn’t handle that. The only reason you like GSD is because he too lacks empathy.

To be fair, he’s a narcissistic sociopath whereas your just a sociopath so your chances for recovery are a bit higher.

@777
>>If the music teacher had several lives for planning his lessons, he would> because without Love for music nothing happens
It is good not to go in this precisely because it might give birth to “status”!<< ?????

Very likely, Anami!

Also, Anami
All the Egyptian and Asian artwork was Tommy’s.

@ spence
After seeing the video in memory of Mr. Curtis, I wondered that nothing or almost nothing of what was shown in that video related to Sant Mat and the followers of those days, things that it made it so attractive to join, is still alive.
I don’t know of people that make Sant Mat cartoons and poems these days as it was done in those days.
Well his nephew walked his talk from the first days, that he would end, the growing of the plant that gets to much, sun, water etc so that it cannot stand on its own.

BTW
With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.
🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

@UM
That was the best I could , really . . .
@Jen who is Sonia s subject
“Best of luck with hypnotherapy and treatments ”
me:
This Path is so beautiful and full of humour
The Therapist might be initiated by your uttering !
Might be a fourth live(r)
777

GP–
Yikes!! I may have been wrong in my assessment. GSD possesses all of these traits (partly because he believes he has the “God-given” right to).
Psychopathic researchers found that psychopaths often have these common traits:
-Lack of empathy, guilt, conscience or remorse
-Shallow experiences of feelings or emotions
-Impulsivity and a weak ability to defer gratification and control behavior
-Superficial charm and glibness
-Irresponsibility and a failure to accept responsibility for their actions
-A grandiose sense of their own worth

Spence, just watched that video about Tommy again, like a walk down memory lane reminding me of my brother who hitchhiked practically around the world and ended up eventually at the Dera, came home and told Mum and I about Charan and we both became initiated whilst living in South Africa.
Gosh, I miss those magical times.
Thanks for praying for me, I seem to have lost the plot for some time now and here I am back to being my old ‘spiritual’ self.
Cheers
Jen

Sonia I hope you see how sad and desperate you are sounding. It’s like a drowning man who can’t help but fall deeper.

Tom Curtis would never have stooped to come proselytize his psycho concoctions on a pseudo atheists anti RSSB haters site.
Pity that Spence doesn’t emulate the type of spirit and simplicity of pure humility and deeper integrity in human nature that his mentor portrayed.
He’d do far better to take a more positive humble approach and try be as good a disciple as Tommy was than the pseudo bunkum gobbledygook that gets so lavishly and extraneously put out like endless streams of schizo fodder to try making himself look good in the eyes of the anti GSD / RSSB exers club, and his new found gaggle of pseudo ‘saints’.

Sonia I hope you see how sad and desperate you are sounding. It’s like a drowning man who can’t help but fall deeper.
Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 02:05 PM
Get initiated. Or stop doing whatever it is that is preventing you from getting initiated (like being on this blog). Clearly you are only on this site because RSSB and the guru have rejected you. You sound sadly pathetic.
You were rejected TWICE??? So sad… that’s almost IMPOSSIBLE to do. LOL

And Shalini, RSSB sets the bar pretty low for initiation so the fact that you’ve been rejected TWICE makes me wonder how messed up you must be.
I’m not holding back in hypocritical initiate wanna be’s anymore. Get your shit together enough to get initiated and then come back here and tell me what’s wrong with me.

BTW
With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.
🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 07, 2020 at 10:25 AM
Yayyyyy

BTW
With immediate effect the February Hostel 6 session has been cancelled.
🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 07, 2020 at 10:25 AM
As if ANYONE on this thread was even thinking about going… 🤷‍♀️
No need to tell us March or October or December are cancelled too. Who cares

Hi Um
Yes, Tommy had a personal, 1:1 relationship with Maharaji. They wrote letters back and forth, ate dinners together.Maharaji came to visit Tommy.
And I had a 1:1 relationship with Tommy.
It’s a very simple and very personal process.

If the Sant Satguru doesn’t live up to your image, one solution could be to become an even truer Saint in your own right. Shape yourself into the Perfect Master, according to your ideal.

As if ANYONE on this thread was even thinking about going… 🤷‍♀️
No need to tell us March or October or December are cancelled too. Who cares
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 07, 2020 at 06:05 PM
Look who is talk!!!!!!!!
@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
Thanks for sharing.

Steve, you’re such a smart one…

@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
After Georgy’s last rant the other day where he literally told me to fck off half a dozen times and stay away from RSSB and the guru, I wouldn’t go to the Dera if it was the last safe place on earth during a Zombie apocalypse.
And everyone knows that “Georgy” is an initiate.

Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.

Steve, you’re such a smart one…
Posted by: sonia | February 07, 2020 at 08:35 PM
Tell me something new this lovely weekend here.

What’s your definition of a Saint?
Posted by: sonia | February 04, 2020 at 07:48 AM
Georgy
Why the lengthy post? It’s simple
A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.
It certainly isn’t (1) what that Pastor Spence rants often. Look up earlier posts. His fakery has been called out and (2) those that the stupid Vatican decides as one. You know the Mother Teresa types.

If the Sant Satguru doesn’t live up to your image, one solution could be to become an even truer Saint in your own right. Shape yourself into the Perfect Master, according to your ideal.
Posted by: anami | February 07, 2020 at 07:17 PM
Wow. Here mere mortals with zero understanding of God and his physical manifestation (Perfect Master) will now set standards of God (since perfect master is God) and benchmark is…… According to one’s ideals.
How hilarious.
Enjoy your weekend and Goodluck with your ideals.

Shalini
You will be accepted and be far better satsangi than Sonia ever was. I can see that immediately.
Sonia is unfortunately a mess , disloyal, and a liar – these are not good satsangi qualities, that much I know.
I’m still a way off too, cos I got a nasty side like Sonia (not v lady like) but luckily far more resilient stable mind. Is she still crying over guru?

Ok Steve – yip sounds like you know more than me. You right too much blah blah from me…keep it simple. I appreciate your definition – thanks.

Personely,
I love my Maharaji..
not the teachings..
I love vegan and clean life..
And also Sufi’s..
Hazrat Inayat Ghan is sublime..
Loving and very wise

Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.
Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 09:44 PM
For your sake, I hope Shalini isn’t your real name.

A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 07, 2020 at 10:31 PM
You could not possibly be more wrong. GSD has said numerous times that the Master doesn’t take on the karma of the disciples. He said the Master can in rare cases if he so chooses but as a rule does not. This is GSD’s Sant Mat 2.0
It’s up to you to meditate and work off ALL of your karma. He also said just following that that the Masters are karmaless. He said this as he was talking during evening meeting. He was very sick with cancer and looked very sick from the cancer treatments. He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his.
Steve, he does NOT take on karmas according to Gurinder. If that’s what you’re expecting your master to do than you’d best look for a new one.

Ok Steve – yip sounds like you know more than me. You right too much blah blah from me…keep it simple. I appreciate your definition – thanks.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 08, 2020 at 12:09 AM
I don’t feel bad when I say that you are literally, without a doubt my very least favorite person on the entire earth. And I’m including all the sadists and criminals in with that.

Tom Curtis would never have stooped to come proselytize his psycho concoctions on a pseudo atheists anti RSSB haters site.
Pity that Spence doesn’t emulate the type of spirit and simplicity of pure humility and deeper integrity in human nature that his mentor portrayed.
He’d do far better to take a more positive humble approach and try be as good a disciple as Tommy was than the pseudo bunkum gobbledygook that gets so lavishly and extraneously put out like endless streams of schizo fodder to try making himself look good in the eyes of the anti GSD / RSSB exers club, and his new found gaggle of pseudo ‘saints’.
Posted by: Whodunit | February 07, 2020 at 04:21 PM
One thing I’m 100% certain of—no decent, loyal Satsangi would come to this site either.
This is for people who are honest about who they are and honest about their skepticisms.
It’s like you’re Amish and just walked into a Best Buy to condemn everyone for using electricity.
I don’t how many times I have to say this, but there literally is an ‘I Hate Church of the Churchless’ site. There is a link provided to it on this page.

Is she still crying over guru?
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | February 07, 2020 at 11:56 PM
OMG, right now he looks like a Saint compared to you… and you know I feel about him, so that says a lot about you.

From here on out I’m not posting another thing or responding to another comment on Open Thread.
Open Thread is like the National Enquirer compared to Brian’s blog post articles. I’m sticking strictly on topic with Brian’s posts because they are constructive, intelligent and helpful.

Sorry, last post EVER on Open Thread (and I won’t be checking back to read your comments either).
Whodunit,
Just to make the analogy complete:
You’re like an Amish person who drove to Best Buy in his Tesla to condemn everyone shoppping there for using electricity.
That is the best analogy possible for every Satsangi or Satsangi wannabe who visits this site will the sole intention of criticizing others who don’t agree with RSSB or to criticize others for “not believing” and expressing their opinions here. It’s OK for anyone to not be a believer. You should respect that.

@ Spence
The video makes it clear these 1:1 relationships sure but what I don’t understand is, why one shares it with others.
If a person dies and an memorial is made and shared with those attending the funeral, that, I do understand but not that it is put on YOUTUBE and used in here…. for what reason?

My 22 year old nephew (cousin’s son) from Canada produced this half hour video, funded by some Canadian governmental organisation or other, on the subject of mental health. I was quite blown away by it. Very touching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHaGM1-MOU

Hi Um
A memorial helps us remember. And when we remember, we may share memories of our beloved friends. It’s a very natural process.

Also, Um
Georgy had asked about True Saints living among us, and wanted survival reverences. I had mentioned my Rock and Roller musician friend, Robb, but Georgy pressed for more. Then I referred to Brain Ji, and Finally the video of Tommy.
Someone mentioned that Statsangis don’t write poetry about God and their own Master. But I think they do. These True Saints can be found, if we are receptive to them.
They never accept positions of authority, with titles, like “Teacher” or “Guru.” They would allow anyone to worship them. So most people assume they can’t be a true Saint.
Most assume that A Saint is in an organization with a name badge “Saint”. And that other people point to them and say “God In Human Form.”
But no true Saint does any such thing. Their power of compassion is unbelievable, and to wield it they allow no distinctions between themselves and those around them.
They destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love.

Oops typo.
Should read “they would NEVER allow anyone to worship them.”

Interesting!!
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/no-religious-divisions-people-pray-together-at-shaheen-bagh

Georgy Thank you for your kind words towards me. With regards to Sonia, she is different and everyone is. I just hope her brash behavior and commenting isn’t taken seriously.
And just some advise for you too. Calm down with the cuss words it’s not needed to make your point. Your comments are hard to read with so much cussing in them. Absolutely not needed. You can say the same thing without the expletives and in a nice manner.

Hi Steve
You wrote
“A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
I’m sorry this is wrong. The true Saint is not his physical Manifestation.

Hi Manjit,
This is indeed a very touching video!
What a brave people to tell so welll and openly about their problems.
I think most humans recognice themselves also in them.
Thanks for posting.

@ spence
Having said all the things you wrote, about memorandums and that you were asked to come up with some answer on who is a saint, etc the questions still remain.

“Wow. Here mere mortals with zero understanding of God and his physical manifestation (Perfect Master) will now set standards of God (since perfect master is God) and benchmark is…… According to one’s ideals.”
Dear Steve,
I think you misunderstood my comment, but if the orthodox approach works for you 100%, you’re fortunate and I celebrate it!

@ “A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
I agree with Spence. We – er, make that “I” – tend to tag
the physical manifestation as the real “form” when it isn’t.
That’s why Gurinder works to disabuse disciples of that
notion that He comes at death to shepherd them home.
So, when Gurinder says “I’m not coming at death…” He
means that fondly worshipped outer form doesn’t but
the inner form will. It’s not some scandalous departure
from RSSB 1.0 scripture as others have suggested either.
All masters will echo it.
The inner form is the Friend the disciple must manifest
within and will appear at death. Firmly established, it
remains at all times. The outer form is transient and
doesn’t.

You could not possibly be more wrong. GSD has said numerous times that the Master doesn’t take on the karma of the disciples. He said the Master can in rare cases if he so chooses but as a rule does not. This is GSD’s Sant Mat 2.0
It’s up to you to meditate and work off ALL of your karma. He also said just following that that the Masters are karmaless. He said this as he was talking during evening meeting. He was very sick with cancer and looked very sick from the cancer treatments. He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his.
Steve, he does NOT take on karmas according to Gurinder. If that’s what you’re expecting your master to do than you’d best look for a new one.
Posted by: Sonia | February 08, 2020 at 01:09 AM
Sonia
If you actually think your daily meditation of a measly 2.5 hours (even over 3 lifetimes) is sufficient to ‘account’ for your karmic load then that is the most misplaced notion you harbour.
That often narrated – one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions – his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.
There is only One Master. It’s we the ‘limited’ humans who see this one master as GSD. Hazur, Soamiji, Kabir, etc etc. And there is no Santmat 2.0 or 20.0. Just because the innocuous human beings believe so….it doesn’t become so.
The karmas that a Master usually doesn’t interfere/tamper with generally is your destiny i.e. Pralabd Karma. Though they can, as even GSD has admitted he can, in one of the Q&A sessions in Dera.
Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.
And if he say Masters are karmaless and He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his then why didn’t you ask – Why the cancer then??
Do I need to look for another Master?? Na. I’m in the best hands there ever can be.

Hi Manjit,
Thank you so much for posting the link to the video your nephew from Canada produced. First of all—amazing job! Well done! And so touching. I really enjoyed watching. Despite what some people may think (🙄) I know very little—almost nothing—about schizophrenia. I know a lot about depression, anxiety and other mood disorders, it’s just I’ve never worked directly with schizophrenics. I’ve worked directly with many bipolar people, though. I really enjoyed the interview with the man who suffers from schizophrenia. They can function quite well—as well as or maybe even better than the rest of us with the right treatment.

Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.
And if he say Masters are karmaless and He wanted to make sure that Satsangis understood his cancer wasn’t due to any spiritual weekends or “sins”/karmas of his then why didn’t you ask – Why the cancer then??
Do I need to look for another Master?? Na. I’m in the best hands there ever can be.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM
Same reason I didn’t ask him why he’s diabetic or has chronic back pain. He wasn’t born karmaless. He was diabetic from an early age. So tell me, when exactly do the Masters become karmaless? Is it day one of Masterhood or a year or two later after they’ve meditated themselves past the third region?

The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM
Should I take your utterances literally?

So, I think it’s important for a true Saint to teach is disciples to try to be as nice and kind and loving and respectful in everything they do and say towards each other as possible. Because when we humans are disrespectful and arrogant and condescending and insulting towards others it never results in anything good and almost always escalated (yes, I’m guilty). But I just don’t feel that message being spread. Maybe I’m wrong. But it seems like Satsangis sometimes act more like crusaders than seekers. It’s what pushes people away from the path. If there’s no love then there’s no God. Obviously one has to do even more than that, like live a moral and honest life and be veg and not do drugs or drink and meditate. But it should start with being kind. At least trying really hard and everyone should be able to say there sorry. I think the hallmark of a true saint is being able to say you’re sorry. Why not? Even if you did nothing wrong, if what you did (unintentionally) hurt someone else then why not apologize.
Sometimes I walk down the hall and my cat farts in front of me and I trip over him. Sometimes I fall but I always tell him I’m sorry because I’m bigger than him and I know it scared him and I accidentally stepped on his toes.
And if that’s a message GSD isn’t willing to teach in Sant Mat then I won’t be having any further conversations regarding Sant Mat.
I’m no Saint, but I’ve come to the realization that if you can’t love people then you can’t love God. You can’t even begin to know God.
Of course, this means I’m going to have to watch myself and be super nice to everyone now.
Anyway, those are my Last Thoughts on RS. Sar Bachan mentions something about Masters having the right to treat disciples harshly if it’s in their best interest. I will say no to this. I do not agree at all. No compromise on this issue whatsoever. And as long as this is a teaching of Sant Mat I will never follow it and there’s nothing left to discuss.

Typo— should read “my cat FALLS in front of me”
😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

–
“And everyone knows that “Georgy” ”
What_everyone <<<<. one narcist under 10 pseudos

Cryptic Luna🌜
You may be right
I may be crazy
But it just may be a lunatic you’re looking for
10? I only counted 7.
BTW, moon just entered Leo (thank God).
“February 8, 2020 — The Leo Full Moon arrives on Saturday at 11:33pm Pacific Time, reminding us to open our hearts and share our truth, without fear. In the wake of the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, the chaos of the collective is mounting, as the shadow of Mercury retrograde submerges us in confusion. In the midst of it all, the Leo Moon is now reminding us of joy—inviting us to laugh, engage in the activities we love, and embrace our pleasure, no matter what.”
Another big BTW, did you know there’s an RSSB app in the App Store?? 😂 I don’t think it’s official because it’s missing a photo of GSD but prominently displays photos of the 4 previous masters. I don’t why I even care to mention it. But apps are really cool… in general.

O—got the other 3. Serious MPD.

Interesting!!
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/no-religious-divisions-people-pray-together-at-shaheen-bagh
Posted by: s* | February 08, 2020 at 09:14 AM
Why is it interesting??? Is the interesting bit how come you see some Sikhs and Hindus at a Muslim rally and which is being probed by the authorities of being funded by a organization linked with terror

Hi Steve
You wrote
“A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
I’m sorry this is wrong. The true Saint is not his physical Manifestation.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 08, 2020 at 01:44 PM
Spence,
Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It’s the ‘Source/Origin’ and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes ( they don’t head organizations, accept positions of authority with titles, full of compassion blah blah) that decides.
Even a thorough bred atheist can destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love. That doesn’t make him a Saint (Sant)

Sonia yes I will pretty soon. Thank you for your support. I reckon I will still feel the same way about you regardless of whether I’m initiated or not.
Posted by: Shalini | February 07, 2020 at 09:44 PM
Shalini,
If I may ask you. At what stage was the rejection triggered? The screening session by the sevadars or by GSD himself.
I have heard, GSD hardly ever rejects these days expecting the sevadars to have filtered out all those who didn’t get all boxes of checklist ticked off.

@?
A Saint is one who can. quit thinking at will, being The Creator
, The Almighty, c.q. God,
by enjoying / being The Ever persistent sweet Elixer Music
A SatGuru is a Saint able to learn U That
A Master is who just does That
777

Shalini,
I also wrote a comment about certain stuff—getting angry, being mean (posted just after the one at 2:14 AM) where I apologized to you but I don’t see it posted. Just wanted you to know. I mentioned GP in it so it may have gone straight to SPAM. Lol (even he would laugh) Poor GP…

Even a thorough bred atheist can destroy religious prejudices and replace them with love. That doesn’t make him a Saint (Sant)
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 09, 2020 at 12:28 PM
I’ll just preface this with, ‘This is going to sound crazy’ but I had this experience where I met “Kal” and he looked at me for a while and said “you’re a nice person” and then he just laughed at me. He knew that was my greatest weakness—not that I’m actually a “nice” person but that I’m so overly sensitive when people aren’t (it’s in my stars—it’s beyond exaggerated).
Anyway, if he knows what your kryptonite is, would be pretty darn helpful if a Sant did as well.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You write
“Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It’s the ‘Source/Origin’ and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes”
When Steve writes that the physical master is the master, that may be for him, but it isn’t so for the True Saints. In this you are both mistaken.
The Master is not the physical Master. You should have listened to your own Master’s commentary on that.
The True Saint has merged with love.
There is no higher definition. And if an individual is not, then they are no true Saint.
Some of their attributes: destroying prejudice, accepting no formal authority or title, forbidding anyone to worship them as if they were God, rather than worshiping God directly, which they do in their love of Truth and compassion, which they point to, without tying God down to our self serving definitions. These qualities arise like cream on milk. Even they don’t think about these attributes. This is who they are. They are whom nature made, not organizations and artificial culture bound titles and authorities.
Saints… And so Shabd pours through them, and their ability to connect Souls to Love, to Nam of the highest regions, even beyond all sounds, simply by being in their presence, or even just resonating with their words, always given as a brother or sister, never as GIHF, which is just a way for Satsangis who have lost their way to give themselves authority, is evident to those to can see.

Shalini,
If I may ask you. At what stage was the rejection triggered? The screening session by the sevadars or by GSD himself.
I have heard, GSD hardly ever rejects these days expecting the sevadars to have filtered out all those who didn’t get all boxes of checklist ticked off.
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 09, 2020 at 12:51 PM
The rejection came from the sevadars and it was not for reasons related to the vows(as one would think) it was actually quite unrelated to me or anything I have done or will do. I know it is just an excuse as my time to get initiated has not come. I know this is for me To learn to want it more and appreciate its value when I do get it. We only see what is happening on the surface and come to conclusions we have no idea what the Master is doing or how we are being prepared behind the scenes.

Sonia apology happily accepted (we can forget anything even happened) provided you don’t do it again. Deal??

Sonia apology happily accepted (we can forget anything even happened) provided you don’t do it again. Deal??
Posted by: Shalini | February 09, 2020 at 04:28 PM
Sure 👌

@Spence
The excerpt from 1 Corinthians below was taught to us over and over again growing up. We had pictures and frames of it hanging in our homes. Growing up Christian, especially in a WASP culture makes it difficult to embrace cultural differences in expressing love that are so foreign to your experience and upbringing. I do agree that a lot of times miscommunication happens when people don’t understand each other’s cultures. Like it or not, culture has a lot to do with how we communicate. So, some people may think you sound “syrupy” and “false” but your language and way of speaking is easy for me to identify with because I grew up in a similar environment. It’s not false. It’s just how we were trained. It’s how we think and the example put forth for us. It’s unreasonable to expect someone to retrain themselves culturally. We are who we are.
I think in Indian culture, it’s very much accepted and expected to bow before another and to feel the need to be beaten down or put in your place in order to grow spiritually. If that’s a culturally accepted custom, then one would most likely have no issue with it whatsoever. One wouldn’t see it as offensive. However, when one is from a COMPLETELY different culture and background it’s not easily understood or accepted. I don’t believe that the Indian culture is anymore enlightened than our Western (esp. WASP) culture and visa versa, but it’s still a barrier nonetheless.
Kal must have laughed his as off knowing I would have Gurinder as a Master. He must have thought, “easy win for me”.
…………..
1 Corinthians 13 (from the Bible for those who aren’t familiar)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love I am only a resounding gong or clanging cymbal resounding in the wind. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and can understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have faith, that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I give all I possess to the poor, and surrender my body to the flames, [2] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love has no fear; it does not worry; love keeps no records of wrongs; never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

This notion that you must pass through someone’s screening list of requirements in order to approach God, that you cannot approach God accept through an intermediary organization, an official appointee of God as the Lord’s official representative, with its various rules and functionaries is nothing short of an insult to the Lord.
No True Saint would dare suggest that the Lord cannot or does not hear your appeal to Him /Her, which arises within you right from Him /Her to begin with. Even before you are aware of it. Because it was God’s prayer to you first.
Your deeply heartfelt prayer to God is your reflection and repetition of His /Her silent prayer first to you. God prayed first. You heard something and through your own filters, digested the sadness of separation into your version of God’s prayer to you, first. You think you are distant. That you need a Guru. That’s the illusion. And so you Pray back, thinking falsely you are initiating something.
You may need a teacher. And you will need to overcome your addictions and attachments, even to sadness, to fully embrace what is within you. But the only God that ever was or ever will be is in you, and you don’t awaken to that believing someone else is God. That’s going the wrong way with your very limited attention.
In exact opposite fashion, the True Saint helps you to see for yourself this quality, this life force of Nam within yourself. And you will see the obstacles for yourself. You don’t need an organization giving you more obstacles. And the Lord is right there with you, not in any organization and its artificial rules.
God is within, intimately, as part of your own nature, part and parcel of your deepest hidden self, working with you, the only life that is in you. The only consciousness in you.
It’s already there. There is no connection needed. You are it. It/He/She is you. The True Saint helps you bring it forth. They are within you, you will see their radient form one day, but not to worship them. You are both worshipping the Spirit, not any human being. And your reunion within is simply to celebrate the joy that you have made great progress towards the Father/Mother of all. They are already your friend. You never needed to pass a test. Yes, you have your work to do. Yes, stages. Yes the meditation, but no, not worshipping an authority, worshipping an organization, worshipping a Guru as some graven idol, no stage actors. Nothing like that.
In the Lord’s bedroom we don’t wear clothes. He /She doesn’t ask you to take a test first before making love or to make love first to His /Her servant.
Nature is drawn to nature. So make you appeal within, in all sincerity. That alone is the first stage of listening to God. Not after you pray. The prayer itself that you think you are making is the result of having heard God, in some way or other.
But prostrating yourself before another human being? Before an organization’s rules? As if God could reject a part of himself /herself? Ludicrous. A work of self – serving organizations and their stage actors. You wrote your own initiation requirements, you failed yourself.
But in God’s realm, He/She can’t wait for you to jettison all that as layers. The requirements for initiation themselves are a corruption. You will have to leave all those trappings behind.
Don’t wear clothes to make love. There is nothing you can put on that will give you greater freedom than to toss all those mental constructs, organizations, worldly authorities, and stage actors away.
You just need A True Friend who has gone the entire way to help you understand, and as a living example, to believe enough to do your own work and see for yourself. So you have the example right there with you, nd they are already here waiting for you to open your heart.

Anyway, it’s not necessarily how we speak in our everyday language with friends, but it’s how you expect ministers and parishioners to speak. It’s just cultural. Very, very few of my satsangi friends (if any) were raised in a Protestant faith. Catholicism would have been an easier convert to Punjab culture…

@Spence,
Actually, I don’t know what your background was before Sant Mat, but the way you speak and how you share a message is exactly the same as every minister I ever had growing up.
The other REALLY big one is that we were taught over and over and over again not to now before any man. So, that’s a bit of a mind slap… I often wonder how someone like me ever wound up following a path like Sant Mat. Not a single person I grew up with or any of my family members (excluding my husband and in-laws) could even begin to understand the customs and way of thinking expressed in RS Sant Mat.
And this is just an objective perspective. No one I grew up with would believe that I’ve been to India 6 times in my life to see a guru. If I told them, I’d just get a blank stare. 😂
Anyway… our unique ways of communicating can divide people. Which is evident as many cultures are challenged to understand each other.

Typo—should read not to “bow” before any man…
I need to get an Android phone… the new iOS has gotten really aggressive at deciding what you really meant to say.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You write
“Steve is right. There is no other definition of a True Saint (Sant). It’s the ‘Source/Origin’ and not the physical qualities / worldly attributes”
When Steve writes that the physical master is the master, that may be for him, but it isn’t so for the True Saints. In this you are both mistaken.
The Master is not the physical Master. You should have listened to your own Master’s commentary on that.
The True Saint has merged with love.
There is no higher definition. And if an individual is not, then they are no true Saint.
Some of their attributes: destroying prejudice, accepting no formal authority or title, forbidding anyone to worship them as if they were God, rather than worshiping God directly, which they do in their love of Truth and compassion, which they point to, without tying God down to our self serving definitions. These qualities arise like cream on milk. Even they don’t think about these attributes. This is who they are. They are whom nature made, not organizations and artificial culture bound titles and authorities.
Saints… And so Shabd pours through them, and their ability to connect Souls to Love, to Nam of the highest regions, even beyond all sounds, simply by being in their presence, or even just resonating with their words, always given as a brother or sister, never as GIHF, which is just a way for Satsangis who have lost their way to give themselves authority, is evident to those to can see.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 09, 2020 at 03:09 PM
Spence
You want to use many hundreds of words to a definition of a Saint be my guest.
Point being all those words are just repitition of their qualities and detailed bits of their conduct in this world.
The following 30 or so words encompasses all you say and more.
“A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
And Steve is also bang on in his subsequent post where he talks of there is only one master etc etc

“A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
And Steve is also bang on in his subsequent post where he talks of there is only one master etc etc
……..
So confused right now… don’t remember hearing this. Not quite like this.
Are you sure you guys are with RSSB? Or another RS?

So confused right now… don’t remember hearing this. Not quite like this.
Are you sure you guys are with RSSB? Or another RS?
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 10:36 PM
My last post did not show up. Wanted to chime in with a good quote. Anyhow, I think that above your question was 777’s post adding to Steve’s.
I think I get it a little, here’s what I remember:
The Living Sat Guru is not the physical body we see and hear. He is a wave of the Ocean of Love. So his flesh body is apart of this/or Kal’s illusion. But His Sharoop (Radiant/True form) is so linked with/to God, one may not be able to distinguish the wave from the Ocean. (The teachings say that this can only be verified by going within)
So, the Sat Guru could be of three origins:
1. Perfect Saint descended straight from the Ocean. (Some sources attribute Christ as being one at this high level of a Saint)
2. A just about complete soul, but not quite yet Perfect, still needing to find the hidden source (Physical Saint) within Kal’s Pinda division; the outer Earth.
3. or, A Satsangi who worked very hard to gain the inner Ocean’s Grace to defeat Kal & his web being transported past Maha Sunn (The realm which basically separates God’s realm from Kal’s; an uncrossable boarder by God’s Law allowing only His waves to pass in & out), by such a wave (currently Baba Ji’s sharoop) leading souls onto Bhanwar Gupha, then finally to Satch Khand thus gaining the Satsangi the rank of Sant but not always commissioned to be the Chosen wave to lead future souls back to the Ocean that is all Love. But yet indeed becoming a True Saint. Those are my recollections on the RSSB teachings for the three ways True Saints
(Sat Gurus) becomee/became Saints (Gurus).

I guess another thing to consider is that GSD answers hundreds of questions a week. Maybe more, I don’t know. He’s one person that’s Master to 20+ million people. So he’s heard the same questions day in and day out for years and years. He’s answered the same questions and most likely gets pretty tired of it—I mean to the point of just really wanting to abbreviate things. I’m sure he’s sick of answering questions. Anyone with 20 million followers would be… One person heading up a “Church” of 20 million in the western world would be considered insane. And by inane, I mean insane for trying to take on such a task.
And I’m not saying any of this to be insulting to anyone. I’m just saying, it is what it is. I’m sure that the Sants of old had more than a dozen disciples but certainly not hundreds of thousands let alone millions. Add to that our ever increasing skepticism and thirst for knowledge in this “Age of Reason”.
There’s no way one is going to have an intimate relationship/1:1 with a master in this day and age unless it’s some spiritual start up. Basically the master just initiates and overseas what is being taught and makes sure everything is being managed according to his standards and wishes. I guess the master is like a living Jesus who makes sure you get home??
But even in Christianity we prayed to God “in Jesus name, Amen”.
Some people feel like a Master stands between them and god and that’s a really weird feeling. Could be an uncomfortable feeling to some if it makes you feel separate from God. These are all concepts. And some of these concepts are comfortable to some while at the same time uncomfortable to others.
That’s what always bothered me—feeling separate from God. I always felt like the Master was judging me and that would keep me from getting to God, so to speak, if I didn’t always please the Master. Like it was all his decision. It felt like he was judge and jury.
I’m not trying to offend anyone here, I’m just being honest about my experience and saying these are foreign concepts for people like me (and others I’m sure). It can be very unsettling at times.
I grew up reading the Bible and with all of the beautiful passages in the Bible there is also a bunch of really scary, wacko stuff. But hearing all of those scriptures from the time I was born made me numb to anything “scary” in the Bible. It wasn’t until I left the church and then years later attended a service one day did I think, holy crap that is kinda messed up. I mean the book of revelations is like a bad acid trip and most of the Old Testament is a mixture of bizarre and disturbing.
So, I’m sure if I had been raised in a Satsangi family and had been familiar with Sant Mat concepts from an early age, they would just be words and wouldn’t be upsetting at all. I’m sure if I grew up in India surrounded by a culture of gurus it would make a lot more sense to me.
I can’t believe I’m going on and on about this. These are the types of posts people just skip over 😂 😂 😂 (understandably).
Is the Master a concept? Is God a concept? What about the Holy Spirit/Shabd?? GIHF means different things to different people. I can’t wrap my head around it. How can God be contained to one person if God is everywhere.
These are just questions. Probably annoying questions to some but they do run through my mind.
The greatest fear, is the fear of separation. There is nothing more terrifying or painful than that. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to escape on one level or another—the feeling of separation.
If you made it to this line, congratulations! It’s over!

Your understanding of GSD is super superficial. The biggest mistake committed being taking his utterances literally.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM
And, Steve, I’m highly offended by this statement. You don’t know me. You don’t know what experiences I’ve had and your tone in general (in all of your comments) is very self-righteous.

This notion that you must pass through someone’s screening list of requirements in order to approach God, that you cannot approach God accept through an intermediary organization, an official appointee of God as the Lord’s official representative, with its various rules and functionaries is nothing short of an insult to the Lord.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 09, 2020 at 06:50 PM
Maybe it’s an insult to the Lord. But that’s Lord wish whether he wishes to be insulted or not. And here he wants to be insulted.
Btw this very opinion of yours about the Lord being insulted is insulting God for it’s an audacious display that you understand God including what he treats as an insult and what a compliment.

The other REALLY big one is that we were taught over and over and over again not to bow before any man.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 07:12 PM
Aah such lofty are the teachings of the church.
– Don’t bow before any man….. Brilliant. Jesus probably appeared as a unicorn and not man.
– Don’t bow before a man……. But it’s ok to not just now but even kneel before a dead man’s statue nailed accross a cross.
Nice.

Brian aptly described what he felt and others seem to feel as Satsangis. They feel “special”. Like oh, these poor lost souls around me that haven’t been initiated by a perfect living master. That somehow you were so much more loved by God that you were given this grace that put you above the rest. And GSD’s inner circle (with the exception of a few) have a sense of “specialness” that is staggering.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You are doubling down on standing behind Steve’s comments
“A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
This is a very sweet sentiment but it is untrue. The Saint, at least as Maharaji taught, does not take the initiates Karma on himself, or at best only partially in rare instances of compassion where it must be done. The Saint does take on the responsibility to help us manage our Karmas successfully, helps us burn our own Sinchit Karma, and helps rearrange our pralabdh Karma so we can go through it with less pain, distraction and stress. No true Saint would brag that they take on all your Karma. But instead they give you the means and the support to do so largely yourself, from within.
Even by RSSB standards, Steve’s statement is incorrect.
“Fate Karma you have to go through, and sinchit Karmas, if you meditate, can all be cleared in one life. If your load is not much and your meditation is all right, it can be cleared in one life. Fate Karmas you have to go through, you are going through, but sinchit Karmas which are dragging you to this world, you can burn them like a heap of grass. ”
Maharaj Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives volume I, q and a 97, page 88.
And no, the Master is not the physical master.
” Guru Nanak says : Shabd is your real Master, and your soul is the real disciples. ” This body is not the real disciple and the Master’s body is not the real Master. The word, or shabd, or nam which has taken abode in the master is the real masrwr, because that shabd our man pulls is soul back to its own source. This flesh we leave here, and the Master’s flesh will stay here too. The real matter is that Sheba and nam. ”
Maharaj Charan Singh Ji, Spiritual Perspectives, Volume I, q and a number 492, pages 437-438.
Sometimes, 777, it does take a few words to get things clear.
No true Saint asks you to worship them. They won’t allow it. This is wrong.

Oops typo… “that Shabd or Nam pulls us….”

Hi Sonia
You wrote
“Actually, I don’t know what your background was before Sant Mat, but the way you speak and how you share a message is exactly the same as every minister I ever had growing up.”
I’ll take it as a compliment. I’m not a preacher. I don’t believe in formal religion, or any formal organization. Each of these reflects some important truths. But I believe the path is within. The Bible, the Koran, Sar Bachan, the Granth are reflections of reflections, natural processes filtered through our limited understanding.
My message is that there are those in every time and culture who have travelled the entire journey and who are here, in that condition, able to help others as well to do so.
But these individuals, the real Saints, work outside of formal organizations and formalized authority. They may be in all of those organizations as members, but never as leaders. You will never see them standing in front of an audience as a preacher. They already know the only role that matters is human being, and the only book that matters is written in our own heart, if we spend time to read it.
They are found in all religions and outside of religion. Yes a true Saint is at some point an Atheist. Because they know that artificial definitions of God, while helpful to a point, become a distraction at another point. None of them are God. And secondly, that God is at best an idea about something very real that is part of the creation… Or in which the entire creation resides. And it is in us, connecting us. Our mysterious and largely unconscious connections to this creation and each other.
I don’t mind my preachiness any more. It’s better to hold to something truthful, even vaguely understood, that you realize is who you are, than to pretend not to know, or to be critical without offering and way forward.
There are wonderful ways forward.
And True Friends willing to share and to help in a personal relationship. No stage actors in the True Path.

Hi Karl
You wrote
“it’s an audacious display that you understand God including what he treats as an insult and what a compliment.”
Sadly we are all imprisoned by our beliefs. Holy wars are the result of different people’s notions about God.
If you honor your own statement, you would not judge me. You would honor the fact that you, as a limited human being, could not claim to understand God. But instead you are critical of my view. And my view is that organizations of any kind which claim to help people know God are in fact an abomination standing in the place of the friendship, the very human friendship, 1:1, with those who have gone the whole way. God’s Church is this creation, and the inner temple is within you. No buildings, no texts, no Gurus, Priests, Pastors.
Rather than try to meet someone’s club rules, why not sincerely open yourself to the broader experience and helpfulness of someone else?
Is our ego so big we can’t accept the fact that others may be more spirituality advanced than we are? So we need a Bollywood or Hollywood stage actor, at a distance?
People claim they don’t like that the RSSB master has so many disciples and therefore they have no personal relationship.
But I suggest this works perfectly for those people. They can think about God without having to do much about it. They can retain their attachments with minor adjustment. But that’s ok. Every path has its first steps.
When you are ready for real food, you will have the opportunity to meet a real Saint. And to have a personal friendship with them.
I only suggest that they have already been in your life, and you have already rejected them. You wanted the movie star. But when you wear that out, when pride is no longer an adequate substitute for real intimacy, real friendship, real spirituality, then you will discover that step was already there waiting for you to look forward and see it. The stone the builders, including you, rejected in truth is the cornerstone of your own development.

“Fate Karma you have to go through, and sinchit Karmas, if you meditate, can all be cleared in one life. If your load is not much and your meditation is all right, it can be cleared in one life. Fate Karmas you have to go through, you are going through, but sinchit Karmas which are dragging you to this world, you can burn them like a heap of grass. ”
Maharaj Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives volume I, q and a 97, page 88.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 10, 2020 at 05:54 AM
Vs
That often narrated – one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions – his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.
The karmas that a Master usually doesn’t interfere/tamper with generally is your destiny i.e. Pralabd Karma. Though they can, as even GSD has admitted he can, in one of the Q&A sessions in Dera.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 08, 2020 at 09:57 PM
Buddy Spence
Spot the differences between what Steve said on 8th Feb and you on 10th.
Words of encouragement by the Master (the extract your quote) results in a belief that MY MEDITATION will burn off my karmic account ——–> you are welcome to this notion you harbour.
It’s just another outcome of taking Master’s utterances literally (as Steve rpoints out too even at the risk of sounding very self-righteous.)
The reality is you will not remember HIM even once unless HE/Master desires that you should and your insignificant effort (2.5hrs of daily meditation) eventually does invoke the Masters/HIS grace of clearing a whole lot of residual sanchit karmas.
But to say one’s meditation clears out one’s karmic ledger entirely – well it’s then time to hugely cut down one’s self importance.
Cheers,
Sath_Path

@Spence
Just wanted to add a comment about this:
“No true Saint would brag that they take on all your Karma. But instead they give you the means and the support to do so largely yourself, from within.”
Unless they were Jesus… just sayin’ but of course he did have his list of requirements. And it’s interesting that in Christianity, despite the idea of forgiveness there is still the acceptance of “karma”—cause and effect—you can’t escape that. So, don’t be a jerk, do what you know you should be doing (golden rule, honest, moral, pray, meditate, etc) and life won’t smack you in the face every time you turn around. Or at least not as often.
I’m like the radically irreverent true lover of God. 😄 And I did put my application in for Angel of Death—simply to piss of the “establishment”. I just feel we could improve the experience. I’d be like “Cake or eternal damnation? Oops wait, we’re all out of eternal damnation. I’m sorry, you’ll just have to settle for cake. Would you like some ice cream with that?”
That was an Eddie Izzard 2000 reference. 😂

@Mx Emoji,
Thanks. But you posted your comment here before that notice went out… 🧐
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 09, 2020 at 03:27 PM
Sonia,
Do I have Divine vision that i foresaw the notice before it was sent out ——> no such divine vision atleast in this life time.
Am I Mr Wayne of RSSB ——-> No. Though I do like Bruce Wayne.
Just consider the time zones (India is ahead – by 13.5 hours I think). Considering this, do you still arrive at the same conclusion of me posting before the notice went out?
Sd/-
Sath_Path

@ Sonia
>>The greatest fear, is the fear of separation. There is nothing more terrifying or painful than that. And I think that’s what we’re all trying to escape on one level or another—the feeling of separation. << All or most people from the west approach santmat with "bible". There are "bible belt" satsangis Protestant and RK satsangis etc etc. etc. In some communities and house holds "the feeling of seperation" has a more prominent place than in others. In some communities children are raised with the idea that the can and have to do certain things in order to deserve, love, respect or whatever. In colder, northern climates and places that is more stressed than in warmer places. Protestantism, and especialy Calvinistic varieties are more found in the north … and … many of them, very orthodox, immigrated to the USA. Look at the roots of mental make ups. In Europe you can't find places with more than one or two churches but in the USA one can Religion in the USA is definetly something quite different from Europe.

Aah such lofty are the teachings of the church.
– Don’t bow before any man….. Brilliant. Jesus probably appeared as a unicorn and not man.
– Don’t bow before a man……. But it’s ok to not just now but even kneel before a dead man’s statue nailed accross a cross.
Nice.
Posted by: Karl Simon | February 10, 2020 at 03:26 AM
What the church meant by that was Jesus was the only man anyone should bow to… so don’t bow before anyone else. I’m not saying they were right. Subservience isn’t my thing—I think if you truly love someone with all of your heart then “bowing” is ridiculous.
But you are correct, Jesus was a unicorn—a little known fact. That’s why all the crosses you see are such a ridiculous display. You can’t kill a unicorn by nailing it to a cross. C’mon people! Use your heads! The only thing that can kill a unicorn is to lock it up in a black and white room. They just sort of fade… very, very slowly… leaving behind nothing more than a pile of shimmering dust.

Just a note: I don’t think linearly all the time… maybe not even half the time. So, my comments may make you wonder what I believe. Also, a lot of times I say things just to make a point. Not that I own that belief but just trying to put it in a different context so that people think about it differently. Anyway… not that anyone cares, but here’s a brief overview on my beliefs re spirituality—as I see it today:
Do I believe in past lives? Yes
Do I care about them? Not in the least
Do I believe in karma—yes, but let’s try and keep it in this lifetime (I can’t even begin to tackle past lives—that’s what Saints are for 😅). Karma in this life is almost immediate. So, you learn quick.
Burner on the stove is red. Should I touch it? Sure, why not. G’dammit. OK, got it.
Do I believe in Sants? Yeah—they better exist cause I don’t know what I’m doing. Life without unicorns isn’t a life worth living. But they don’t have to be all prancy and fancy—unless that’s your thing.
Do I believe in hell? Yeah, I’m living in it. But I don’t do “eternal damnation”.
Do I believe in God? Yep. Can’t prove he exists to other people. I just know from the warm fuzzy feeling I get in my heart.
Do I think everyone else should think like me? Hell no. We’re all where we are at the moment—ever evolving.
It’s interesting to hear other people’s answers to these questions. Kinda like those questions you answer on fb. But with a religious tone.

@ “A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
Ultimately, it’s the Master’s inner form that becomes the Friend
accompanying you home and who remains with you forever.
Not the outer. It’s an important distinction because the outer
master is transient. He’s only a placeholder for what’s within.
He repeats with every talk, every interview, every breath: it’s the
inner master who befriends, guides ,and protects the disciple.
Gurinder makes it even clearer when he says “How do you know
I’m not a fraud?” and “I’m not coming for you at death”. His intent
is clear: you shouldn’t worship what’s outside. You may honor,
respect, listen with all reverence to satsangs but the goal is always
to propel you inward to find His real form. Without that experience
the mystic path devolves to blind faith. It’s another religion.

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You quoted Steve in support for your claim that we don’t burn Karmas
“That often narrated – one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions – his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.”
The symbolism that Steve is trying to replace here, of Master taking on all Karma is wrong, especially Sinchit Karma. And especially as Master has clearly stated we have a role to play.
But what is the point of discussing the power of Spirit, of Shabd and Nam? If you have not been living with it?
Further, you have ignored also what Maharaji wrote about the physical Master, who is not the true Master.
This is how teachings about Spirit (the Word, Shabd, Nam) degrades into worship of people, instead of worship of the Lord. And our duty to use the Spirit to destroy Karma within. The same power the Master wields, we have within ourselves to weild. And He does His job helping us to do so.
If you won’t believe the very words of your own Master, of course my words will be like rain on concrete. But then perhaps words from another book which echoes and verifies these teachings will help you get woke.
“12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.…”
Paul, Romans 8:12-14
It’s our job to use the Spirit /Shabd. No one else’s.
You were given that connection, it is your responsibility.
” but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. ”
” IF….” not pre-determined..
” by the Spirit… ” using the Holy Name, Nam, Shabd, the audible spirit within all life….
YOU….that’s not your master or anyone else. It’s your job. You have the power in you….
“put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. ”
That’s worship of the Spirit within. Not worship of your Master. And that association with Spirit burns the impressions created by past deeds, thoughts and associations. The attachments, the connections. In Spirit they disappear, you can rise right up to the third region in moments, and even higher. But you still have your ball and chain to return to. Those impressions do exist in your own storehouse, the layers of your own Astral and Causal bodies. These impressions must be worn away, burned away. Shabd is that holy fire, holy light.
” 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Jesus, John 4:23-24
God isn’t the flesh, 777. God is Spirit, and we are not to worship flesh, but to worship in Spirit, and in Truth.
“63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”
Jesus, John 6:32
Worship of flesh can take you to the teachings. But from that point on, you must folliw those teachings, and learn to live in the Spirit and worship the Spirit alone to make progress. And this is why True Saints forbid worship of flesh.

Sonia,
Do I have Divine vision that i foresaw the notice before it was sent out ——> no such divine vision atleast in this life time.
Am I Mr Wayne of RSSB ——-> No. Though I do like Bruce Wayne.
Just consider the time zones (India is ahead – by 13.5 hours I think). Considering this, do you still arrive at the same conclusion of me posting before the notice went out?
Sd/-
Sath_Path
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 10, 2020 at 07:42 AM
I’m gonna let you keep playing this game because it wouldn’t be any fun to stop now. But just so you know, I counted all the jelly beans in the jar before you set it out. So, I already know how many are in the jar. It would be cheating if I “guessed”.
Anyway, thanks for the update re H6. Do you think there’s a chance it will be cancelled Mar/April? Also, did Hostel 8 Feb session get cancelled too? I’m not sure if it’s Hostel 8 but whichever one the NRIs stay at. My friend left for Feb session before it was cancelled and she’s an NRI so I just wanted to know…
Yes, I have a hard time with math. ‘Humble Pi’ by Matt Parker is a funny book about how things can go disastrously wrong if you don’t use the right units of measure in conversion… and other fun stuff. If you’re bored and want some nerdy math entertainment checkout http://www.standupmaths.com. 🤓
I guess the alarm is going to sound in a few hours for you. You must have a cup of chai when you wake up. I try to be vegan, but boy do I miss the chai from Dera. I’ve searched everywhere and no one makes chai half as good.

Mx Emoji,
Your new name has sort of a Sensei feel to it, like Cobra Kai (OMG, if you haven’t seen that show you should check it out). Emoji is Japanese.
“Originally meaning pictograph, the word emoji comes from Japanese e (絵, “picture”) + moji (文字, “character”); the resemblance to the English words emotion and emoticon is purely coincidental.”
友だち

For the record, I’m just fine with a Master taking on all my karmas if there are any takers. No complaints here. Of course, I will try to be good. I really will. I swear. I mean it this time. 🙏

Now that’s definitely a nice drop as I remember – Dera Chai!
Isn’t there some court deadline approaching?
Best wishes

First, understand the nature of impurity.
If your key is bent,
the lock will not open.
I fall silent.
King Shams has come.
Rumi
777
ps My symbols are always symmetric

ps My symbols are always symmetric
Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM
We know, but you mix yours up! 😂
And the other commenter’s symbols are always the exact same. The artist formerly known as…

In Europe you can’t find places with more than one or two churches but in the USA one can
Religion in the USA is definetly something quite different from Europe.
Posted by: Um | February 10, 2020 at 07:57 AM
Oh yeah. And growing up in the South we had very proper, dignified and civil sermons with all the classic hymns.
Now there’s a giant church in every corner and they’re unlike anything I experienced as a child. Most of them very modern buildings—affectionately termed “rock star churches” because a Sunday sermon is exactly like going to a concert. Walk in and there’s coffee, drinks, donuts like a Starbucks set up but it’s all free. Then you walk into the auditorium and it’s all dark with a band on stage and stage lights. Lots of music (pretty decent music actually) and they start preaching from People magazine… it’s a bit weird these days. Where I live now there are sooooo many churches and they are HUGE and they offer an endless amount of free services. They have shuttles from the parking lot to the entrance and assign you to a guide who gives you a gift bag on your first visit.
They’re really geared more towards community service and providing a place to help your kids grow up with a strong value system—keeping them off drugs and out of trouble—as well as connecting with like minded people.
But they’re like religion-lite. I toured a lot of them when I was going to AA meetings because they all support every kind of recovery and self help program you can imagine. I live in an amazing medium sized city. We have access to so much free stuff. Obviously there are a lot of wealthy donors at the churches and colleges here which enables them to give back to the community.
I’m getting a little side tracked. I guess my point is, the churches are present more than ever but very unorthodox these days. Everybody looks like a hipster. They’re more about community and life in the here and now as opposed to the hereafter.

My symbols are always symmetric
Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM
Sorry kind sir.
I confused your symbolism with another’s including ‘Sath_Path’ some posts back

@ “A saint is HIS physical manifestation who then in an absolute selfless
@ manner takes on the entire karmic load of his disciples and ensures
@ their home coming i.e. back to origin.”
Ultimately, it’s the Master’s inner form that becomes the Friend
accompanying you home and who remains with you forever.
Not the outer. It’s an important distinction because the outer
master is transient. He’s only a placeholder for what’s within.
He repeats with every talk, every interview, every breath: it’s the
inner master who befriends, guides ,and protects the disciple.
Gurinder makes it even clearer when he says “How do you know
I’m not a fraud?” and “I’m not coming for you at death”. His intent
is clear: you shouldn’t worship what’s outside. You may honor,
respect, listen with all reverence to satsangs but the goal is always
to propel you inward to find His real form. Without that experience
the mystic path devolves to blind faith. It’s another religion.
Posted by: Dungeness | February 10, 2020 at 09:09 AM
Hi Dungeness
You wouldn’t have been aware of what you write had it not been for the physical master which many wish to brush aside with disdain. And I agree with your interpretation of some of GSD’s utterances. But come ‘he’ will for ‘he’ has to at the death of his initiate. ‘he’ could just happen to be his inner form.
The outer form however is extremely important too – for a number of reasons. It would be foolish to brush it aside for it is transient or treat it as a placeholder. May I remind you the famous Kabir couplet
‘guru govinda dono khaḍe, kāke lāgū pāya
balihārī guru āapane, govinda diyo milāya’
Further, In verse 4.34 of the Bhagavad Gita, Shree Krishna states:
tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśhnena sevayā
upadekṣhyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśhinaḥ
“Learn the truth by approaching a Spiritual Master (Guru). Inquire from him with reverence, and render service unto him. Such an enlightened Saint can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”
God does not initially come before us. He has a rule: Nirmala mana jana so mohin pava. “I am attained by the pure at heart.” And we are all impure. This is where the physical master comes in. He does the work of a sweeper; he cleans our heart and helps us qualify to meet God. When we finally become nirmal (pure), then God reveals Himself to us. So, the credit of bringing us to that point goes to the Physical master.
Do you know the word “Guru” consists of two syllables—gu and ru. Gu means “darkness” and ru means “one who destroys.” Thus, the Guru is the personality who destroys the darkness of ignorance from us and brings us into the light of divine knowledge. The Guru does all the hard work of purifying us, tolerating our negative behaviors and thoughts, our failures, our shortcomings and shielding and protecting us from the external world. His is a thankless job as we can never repay the debt to our Guru. No wonder the Adi Sant Kabir placed his Guru above the Lord himself.
Anyways it was ‘Who is a Saint (Sant)’ and not ‘who is the real Master’ that triggered this discussion and a Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. Shabd, like God, does not manifest itself in its true form before us in this world. And so all we have is the Physical Master who if perfect (saint for me) is God manifesting himself in the physical world. Some can then say in effect the true form of the physical master ranks above our supposed true master – the Shabd.
Doesn’t mean we have to worship the physical but this is something which only the rare amongst us manage to do. The reason why they forbid worshipping them is not because they are transient but because God realisation in Sant Mat is through an inner journey and worship of anything in the physical world, including worship of the physical form keeps us from going within.
Sd/-
Sath_Path

@ Sonia
The point was the difference between the USA and europe and the influence that background has on the way people live there relation with Sant Mat.
All sorts of religious zealots fled from europe and what they had in their minds and hearts you see reflected in the religious scenery of the USA …. and …. how americans handle sant mat.
And … the western inner circle consists mostly of americans … they are the background legislators.

@Karim
My symbols are always symmetric
Posted by: 💛🌟💛 777 💛🌟💛 | February 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM
Sorry kind sir.
I confused your symbolism with another’s including ‘Sath_Path’ some posts back
Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | February 10, 2020 at 10:27 PM
I feel So fine you catched my little stream
777

Spence . Why do you hate being judged ? Just read one of your response above. It just made me laugh. Off course people are going to judge you. Everyone is including your son when he grows up. Get used to it. I have .

Megachurches in the US: Tennessee, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas, Alabama and South Carolina had the most per capita, followed by Washington and Indiana…
https://factsandtrends.net/2017/08/31/are-megachurches-crowding-your-state/

@anami
Haha!! 😂 Yep. That is exactly what it’s like!

@ Sonia
The point was the difference between the USA and europe and the influence that background has on the way people live there relation with Sant Mat.
All sorts of religious zealots fled from europe and what they had in their minds and hearts you see reflected in the religious scenery of the USA …. and …. how americans handle sant mat.
And … the western inner circle consists mostly of americans … they are the background legislators.
Posted by: um | February 11, 2020 at 01:23 AM
Oh. Sorry. I got side tracked. I hear what you’re saying.

Wow, now we can come to ‘Church of the Churchless’ and sit through both a sermon and a satsang. 😂

Hi Arjuna
You write
“Spence . Why do you hate being judged ? Just read one of your response above. It just made me laugh. Off course people are going to judge you. Everyone is including your son when he grows up. Get used to it. I have .”
Hate is too strong a word. We all have to put up with it. My son has been the object of it all his life. But in some ways so has each of us.
Therefore if there is an opportunity to encourage a stronger sense of equality, of seeing how we are all the same from a higher perspective, then that I like. I prefer building bridges, not walls. But sometimes a wall needs to be torn down to make room for a bridge.

I’m going to refrain from commenting for the rest of the day before I get myself into trouble. Now I’m going to go do some scream therapy (and simultaneously contemplate all my sins). Oh, I can tell it’s going to be a good day…

You quoted Steve in support for your claim that we don’t burn Karmas
“That often narrated – one spark is sufficient to burn a mountain of hay in a jiffy too is just symbolic. That burning of haystack (your accumulated karmas) is simply your master cancelling (taking on) your accountability for your actions – his grace and reward for your dedication and meditation.”
The symbolism that Steve is trying to replace here, of Master taking on all Karma is wrong, especially Sinchit Karma. And especially as Master has clearly stated we have a role to play.
But what is the point of discussing the power of Spirit, of Shabd and Nam? If you have not been living with it?
Further, you have ignored also what Maharaji wrote about the physical Master, who is not the true Master.
This is how teachings about Spirit (the Word, Shabd, Nam) degrades into worship of people, instead of worship of the Lord. And our duty to use the Spirit to destroy Karma within. The same power the Master wields, we have within ourselves to weild. And He does His job helping us to do so.
If you won’t believe the very words of your own Master, of course my words will be like rain on concrete. But then perhaps words from another book which echoes and verifies these teachings will help you get woke.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 10, 2020 at 09:33 AM
Hi Spence
What do you even know about me Spence? But your fakery about inner travel and visions has long been called out in here. So yes, there is no point discussing anything about Santmat with you since you do not live with it!!
Me ignoring what Maharaji wrote about the physical master and/or a need for me to scroll through another book to have clarity about the teachings. Let me say to you trying not to sound pompous – we have been associated with the path from the Great Master’s time (and long before he became the guru) – so with almost ALL masters of the RSSB lineage, their utterances, publications, views and interpretations. Almost certainly unparalleled at least in here. Will refrain disclosing the inner associations for its just not worth it in here.
Do I still need a Steve’s post to support my claim about Karmas or your incremental gyan on Christianity/ other scriptures – to wake me up to what are the RSSB/Santmat teachings? LoL
Is it a shortage of “to go to persons” for my doubts that brings me to this blog? Let me answer this for you. Certainly not.
Now let me bring back some bits of my previous post since its obvious they have been entirely missed by you or not understood.
1) Your insignificant effort (2.5hrs of daily meditation) eventually does invoke the Master’s/His grace of clearing a WHOLE LOT of residual sanchit karmas.
2) But to say one’s meditation clears out one’s karmic ledger ENTIRELY …….
The words in caps indicate (at least to those who have a fair understanding of the teachings) some leftovers (karmas) w.r.t. which only an individual (soul) has a role to play – whether that be living out these select karmas or paying these off by our OWN meditation. It’s a different matter that our meditation again isn’t possible without the grace of the Master who initiates you.
Also be kind enough, especially since you display your profound knowledge and expertise and are sure that my understanding of the teachings is flawed, to highlight the portions of my post which even remotely suggest that the physical master is the be all and end all in the soul’s journey back to its origin. Thanks in advance Bro.
Its also time to remind you that it was ‘Who is a Saint (Sant)’ and not ‘who is the real Master’ that was being discussed. Yet both you and Dungeness wander away into the realm of who the real Master is. A Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. And the real Saint in this physical world, in his/her physical form initiates and links the initiate with the Sound Current.
Also, it would be interesting to hear what ‘your’ Maharaji had to say on Kabir’s couplet
guru govinda dono khaḍe, kāke lāgū pāya
balihārī guru āapane, govinda diyo milāya
Kabir I hope you are aware is an Adi Sant. And since I am dealing with an expert on Sant Mat, I believe I don’t need to clarify the significance of an Adi Sant.
Sd/-
Sath_Path

Coronavirus: Dr. Berg’s opinion
https://youtu.be/K_qmjTJ6RLQ

Maybe I am Kal. Fuck. Why is spirituality so hard?

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
You wrote
“Saint is always associated with an individual in the physical world. And the real Saint in this physical world, in his/her physical form initiates and links the initiate with the Sound Current.”
But the True Saint is within us. The Saint that brings us back to the Lord, our source, is within.
We all need good teachers, good friends. The body is only a covering, a vehicle for the person inside it.
My quote of Maharaji wasn’t as a reference of evidence, but only to encourage you to accept that while we may see things differently, the difference in emphasis is within the teachings that you are discussing.
Truth is something else. It isn’t descriptions of things. It’s those very things themselves.
So if you are practicing, all is good in its own time.
I’m no authority on Sant Mat, only my own experience.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
So, you’re say that we’re all separate from God (the thing about Sant Mat that struck fear into my heart) until the Master purifies is. You’re saying that right now I’m separate from God?
I’m going to need some antipsychotics to deal with that one.
And, Spence, I can’t deal with having to take on ALL my karmas.
So, I’m f’d in these two conversations.

As we all know, “Ãí€ŵçüü θù§ œQv!ëmã bé’øpp.”
There, I said it! I win the holy war!

Hi Sonia
Yeah basically I’m fucked every day.
The Lord takes on everything. The Lord does everything. But that power is within you. Not anywhere else. If your Master is real, he is within you.
You have work to do. That’s what meditation is all about. You can lengthen the process or shorten it.
But we shorten the process simply reconnecting with ourselves.
And Shabd, Nam, Spirit practice is weilding the light Saber given to you by your Friend… Which is really uncovering the light sabor buried in you.
So you can say Master does it all, or you can say The Lord is doing it all, or you can say I’m doing it all, with a deeper understanding of what we actually are, and that is connected. It’s just a matter of perspective. But in all instances you are on the hook to do your part…. But that part includes getting really good at handing everything off to Master, and then doing whatever you possibly can, whatever He tells you to do. It’s just the practice.

Thanks, Spence. That’s more comforting. 😊

An interesting question and Hazur’s response
Q: Well, is it correct to assume then that once you are initiated everything that happens to you is for your own spiritual good? That everything that happens is helping you to go back to the Father?
Ans: At least we should take it in that light. It may be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes. Because, you see, it’s good from the Father’s point of view, not from the worldly point of view. Our concept of his grace is something very different. We think that if he gives us a very good partner and a good house and a lot of money and a good reputation in this world, if we are worshipped by people, then the Father’s grace is very much on us. But his grace may come in a different way. He may take your wife from you or your child or your friend. And you may become frustrated by this world and turn back to the Father. That may be his grace, to pull you out of all the attachments of the world and make you realize the reality, which you never would have thought about otherwise. You were so much engrossed in your own love, your achievements and your own wealth that you have practically forgotten him. That is not his grace. His grace is what pulls you back to him, and that may be a very bitter pill. Our concept of his grace is something very different – it is always from the worldly point of view.

As we all know, “Ãí€ŵçüü θù§ œQv!ëmã bé’øpp.”
There, I said it! I win the holy war!
Posted by: Cousin Zigzag | February 11, 2020 at 09:30 AM
Wow. You’re like a Zen Master.

The outer form however is extremely important too – for a number of reasons. It would be foolish to brush it aside for it is transient or treat it as a placeholder.
Sd/-
Sath_Path
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 11, 2020 at 01:10 AM
I have been following this exchange between Steve, Georgy Porgy, Sath_Path, Spence and Dungeness with some interest.
Time to share some titbit for the benefit of Spence, Dungeness, all the confused with some Santmat 2.0 and Ex-ers in particular –
The below is by The Great Master in The Dawn of Light. The last sentence is the clincher.
“I am glad to learn that after long and patient waiting you have received initiation. You have been put in touch with the sound current. This is the connecting link between your soul and the Creator.
From the time of initiation, when the Master takes over the charge of a soul, he is more anxious than the soul to see it installed on the throne of bliss and peace. Even if the devotee, through some chance, leaves the Master or loses faith in him, he, on his part, never leaves. He will someday bring the devotee on the path again. His mission is to take souls up, and a soul once initiated is never deserted. This is the law.”
Maharaj Sawan Singh, The Dawn of Light

@Sonia
It is like the SUN
It compares a tiny bit
SUN made you , made your elements gird daily energy
you bath in the Sun on the beach
But you cannot join it today
777

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
Can you do me one favor, please? Can you ask Baba Ji who the other Perfect Master on this planet is? He said there was at least 2. Which makes me wonder if they are ONE as well.
But, mainly can you pleeeeez find out who the other perfect master is?
I just want to meet him/her.
🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Time to forget about the Lord and Masters and God and gurus and saints. We are all one and the same, that is our inner being, call it soul or spirit or whatever, lol I choose whatever. The whatever me does not think, its not the mind, does not even want to be called a soul or a spirit, its simply experiencing life, just a tiny drop in the ocean, the ocean of life with all its mysteries and wonder, inside every living being and one day the inner being will merge completely with the One again forever.

How can anyone claim that another person’s inner experiences are “fakery”. That seems rather pompous. Unless of course you are the Omniscient One.
We all struggle (except for GSD and his inner circle—if only we lowly ones could be as holy as they).

I’m changing my handle to 666. It suits me. I’m sure Kabir would agree.
— Sonia

A little tidbit—Gooroo comes from goo which is a sticky, slimy substance and roo which is a marsupial (carry their little ones in a pouch). So a gooroo is a lot like a guru when you think about it.

@ Wise owl
For, All experiences, prophecies, teachings attribute to any divine source, goes that there was just ONE person that received it and the same divine orgine never ever repeated it or make others aware of it.
Before I gave as Illustration the angel gabriel, speaking to the prophet that ende with the creation of the koran and Islam … the angel gabriel never appeared to people of other nations in other continents with the message to confirm the message and to heed his words.
One can add to that the promise of the lord to Moses in which he gave the lands to the Hebrews. That same lord forget to inform all other tribes, peoples etc that he had done so and they should respect that promise.
That same hold for any teaching as spread by this or that mystic.
That moslims believe that hearsay is alright and live accordingly …as long as they do not generalize it for all and everybody.
What do indigenous tribes all over the world know of these divine promises etc???

So after Amazon made millionaire, you moved to
google YouTube
666, 5th Avene NY
7

So after Amazon made millionaire, you moved to
google YouTube
666, 5th Avene NY
7
Posted by: 💥 | February 11, 2020 at 03:22 PM
Excuse you—“billionaire”.

Hi A Wise Owl
You gave a beautiful quote, but you may have misunderstood.
“At least we should take it in that light. It may be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes. Because, you see, it’s good from the Father’s point of view, not from the worldly point of view. Our concept of his grace is something very different. We think that if he gives us a very good partner and a good house and a lot of money and a good reputation in this world, if we are worshipped by people, then the Father’s grace is very much on us. But his grace may come in a different way. He may take your wife from you or your child or your friend. And you may become frustrated by this world and turn back to the Father. That may be his grace, to pull you out of all the attachments of the world and make you realize the reality, which you never would have thought about otherwise. You were so much engrossed in your own love, your achievements and your own wealth that you have practically forgotten him. That is not his grace. His grace is what pulls you back to him, and that may be a very bitter pill. Our concept of his grace is something very different – it is always from the worldly point of view.”
In like fashion we think the same mistaken thinking of our chosen stage actor Master…
Has a good partner,
has wealth and many, many fine temples the world over,
His lands and holdings are ever expanding
He is worshiped by many,
Yes, we think these things therefore are all good grace from God, and good for us too… We want that he has, possessions, power, authority, and take all these as the Lord’s Grace.
But the real Grace of the Father is to bring us to Him. Even to take from us the stage actor we love, our icon, our mini – me made in the image of our own desires.
The Lord’s bulldozer plows straight and true. For its driver knows intuitively that God and Truth must be One, cannot be different.

Hi A Wise Owl
You quoted Great Master, and here is the very problem with the stage actors.
“From the time of initiation, when the Master takes over the charge of a soul, he is more anxious than the soul to see it installed on the throne of bliss and peace.”
The Soul has God even before initiation. There never were two.
No human being dare interject themselves between God and Soul. It can’t be done.
Souls are never separate, only asleep.
The True Saints are here to awaken them, and take them to the home that is already within them. There is no separation, and no disconnection, and therefore no act of connection necessary. You were never unplugged. We are all alive because of that audible power of life constantly pouring through us.
There is no official ceremony. No artificial rules.No possibility of separation. No vows to break.
Wise, you are quoting the words of a beautiful swindler. They steal what is already yours, sitting in your own home, and then offer it up as something they own. And like a master swindler, they offer sell it back to you at a small fee.
But it can never be stolen. It is your birthright.
This whole escapade is a waste of your wealth and time. They take you to the bridge which, in truth, they are powerless to cross, and then charge tolls year in and year out. Tolls of love, devotion and worship which belong to the Father. So of course, being misdirected very cleverly to worship a human being instead of God, you go nowhere.
A true Friend sets you straight. They point you gently to God, never to themselves. Your focus is the Light and the Sound within you. They gently take your hand and guide you within, step by step, to awaken these in you. And they forbid you to worship anything or anyone else, including and especially themselves, even though they are right inside you.
If you bought the swindler’s pitch, I have a few bridges to sell to you.

Hi Um
You asked
“What do indigenous tribes all over the world know of these divine promises etc???”
They receive them also from the Divinity living within them.

I just want to meet him/her.
🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
OMG
That One came for less than 10 Souls only
I can connect U with a Siberian Trikuti level Rishi_Saint
( don’t underestimate <<. he is a trillion^trillion more powerful than f.i. me. 💥 but I need to look / search on an old hard drive < where I have his telephone N° That very holy One lets his disciples do amazing hard seva in the snow and mud and yes, . . . they like it too One of the Sant Mat Masters willl initiate Him and the Malaysian Dame from Kirpal to the 4th space of consciousness . . yes. passing the sunna 777

@ Spence
Where did you find evidence that the lord, if there is one, informed all the tribes all over the world from the promises he made to the Hebrews, their prophets and the prophets of other religions like Islam and Christianity?
Inner experiences are private and cannot be generalised and made into “carrots” for the rest of humanity withhout the consent of the lord and his advise to all to heed these private words.

I just want to meet him/her.
🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
OMG
That One came for less than 10 Souls only
I can connect U with a Siberian Trikuti level Rishi_Saint
( don’t underestimate <<. he is a trillion^trillion more powerful than f.i. me. 💥 but I need to look / search on an old hard drive < where I have his telephone N° That very holy One lets his disciples do amazing hard seva in the snow and mud and yes, . . . they like it too One of the Sant Mat Masters willl initiate Him and the Malaysian Dame from Kirpal to the 4th space of consciousness . . yes. passing the sunna 777 Posted by: 💥 | February 11, 2020 at 07:34 PM You’re suddenly channeling a very sarcastic entity. I underestimated your wit.

Time to forget about the Lord and Masters and God and gurus and saints. We are all one and the same, that is our inner being, call it soul or spirit or whatever, lol I choose whatever. The whatever me does not think, its not the mind, does not even want to be called a soul or a spirit, its simply experiencing life, just a tiny drop in the ocean, the ocean of life with all its mysteries and wonder, inside every living being and one day the inner being will merge completely with the One again forever.
Posted by: zenjen | February 11, 2020 at 01:34 PM
OMG… thank you for your words of sanity! I decided to read this entire thread starting from the beginning all the way through. Most all of the comments (including my own) were collectively beginning to make a strong argument for atheism.
Your comment was like an oasis in the desert of superstition, sorcery and self righteousness. 😂
🎶🎵
People killin’ people dyin’
Children hurtin’, I hear them cryin’
Can you practice what you preachin’?
Would you turn the other cheek again?
Mama, mama, mama, tell us what the hell is goin’ on
Can’t we all just get along?
Father, father, father help us
Send some guidance from above
‘Cause people got me, got me
Questioning
(Where’s the love)
Yo what’s going on with the world, momma
(Where’s the love)
Yo people living like they ain’t got no mommas
(Where’s the love)
I think they all distracted by the drama and
Attracted to the trauma, mamma
(Where’s the love)
I think they don’t understand the concept or
The meaning of karma
(Where’s the love)
Overseas, yeah they trying to stop terrorism
(Where’s the love)
Over here on the streets the police shoot
The people put the…

@💥
I don’t think the symmetrical 777 is going to appreciate you high hacking his handle to take a magic carpet ride.
I checked with the Beast first and he was fine with me using his.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
So, you’re say that we’re all separate from God (the thing about Sant Mat that struck fear into my heart) until the Master purifies is. You’re saying that right now I’m separate from God?
I’m going to need some antipsychotics to deal with that one.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 11, 2020 at 09:21 AM
Hey Sonia,
Yes I am saying exactly that. And since the flavour of the season seems to be pulling out extracts from RSSB literature here you go…..
Maharaj Charan Singh, Spiritual Perspectives, Vol. I
“This world was created, we are separated from the Father, and we are condemned to this separation. Unless we merge back into him, we cannot escape from birth and death. We have to grow spiritually within ourselves to understand the purpose of creation. And then perhaps you won’t even ask the Father why he has created you, because you will be one with the Father and will understand.”
But you are free to believe whatever you want and one other can spew out his concocted interpretation of a pretty straightforward utterance in plain easy to understand English.
Sd/-
Sath_Path

Meant to post this here.
‘Where is the Love’ full lyrics:
People killin’ people dyin’
Children hurtin’, I hear them cryin’
Can you practice what you preachin’?
Would you turn the other cheek again?
Mama, mama, mama, tell us what the hell is goin’ on
Can’t we all just get along?
Father, father, father help us
Send some guidance from above
‘Cause people got me, got me
Questioning
(Where’s the love)
Yo what’s going on with the world, momma
(Where’s the love)
Yo people living like they ain’t got no mommas
(Where’s the love)
I think they all distracted by the drama and
Attracted to the trauma, mamma
(Where’s the love)
I think they don’t understand the concept or
The meaning of karma
(Where’s the love)
Overseas, yeah they trying to stop terrorism
(Where’s the love)
Over here on the streets the police shoot
The people put the bullets in ’em
(Where’s the love)
But if you only got love for your own race
(Where’s the love)
Then you’re gonna leave space for others to discriminate
(Where’s the love)
And to discriminate only generates hate
And when you hate then you’re bound to get irate
Madness is what you demonstrate
And that’s exactly how hate works and operates
Man, we gotta set it straight
Take control of your mind and just meditate
And let your soul just gravitate
To the love, so the whole world celebrate it
People killin’ people dyin’
Children hurtin’, I hear them cryin’
Can you practice what you preachin’?
Would you turn the other cheek again?
Mama, mama, mama, tell us what the hell is goin’ on
Can’t we all just get along?
Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
‘Cause people got me, got me questioning
(Where’s the love)
It just ain’t the same, always in change
(Where’s the love)
New days are strange, is the world insane?
(Where’s the love)
Nation droppin’ bombs killing our little ones
(Where’s the love)
Ongoing suffering as the youth die young
(Where’s the love)
Where’s the love when a child gets murdered
Or a cop gets knocked down
Black lives not now
Everybody matter to me
All races, y’all don’t like what I’m sayin’? Haterade, tall cases
Everybody hate somebody
Guess we all racist
Black Eyed Peas do a song about love and y’all hate this
All these protests with different colored faces
We was all born with a heart
Why we gotta chase it?
And every time I look around
Every time I look up, every time I look down
No one’s on a common ground
(Where’s the love)
And if you never speak truth then you never know how love sounds
(Where’s the love)
And if you never know love then you never know God, wow
(Where’s the love)
Where’s the love y’all? I don’t, I don’t know
Where’s the truth y’all? I don’t know
People killin’ people dyin’
Children hurtin’, I hear them cryin’
Could you practice what you preach?
Would you turn the other cheek?
Father, Father, Father help us
Send some guidance from above
‘Cause people got me, got me questioning
(Where’s the love)
(Where’s the love)
Love is the key
(Where’s the love)
Love is the answer
(Where’s the love)
Love is the solution
(Where’s the love)
(Where’s the love)
They don’t want us to love
(Where’s the love)
Love is powerful
(Where’s the love)
(Where’s the love)
My mama asked me why I never vote never vote
‘Cause police men want me dead and gone (Dead and gone)
That election looking like a joke (Such a joke)
And the weed man still sellin’ dope
Somebody gotta give these niggas hope (Please hope)
All he ever wanted was a smoke (My gosh)
Said he can’t breathe with his hands in the air
Layin’ on the ground died from a choke
(Where’s the love)
I feel the weight of the world on my shoulders
As I’m gettin’ older y’all people gets colder
Most of us only care about money makin’
Selfishness got us followin’ the wrong direction
Wrong information always shown by the media
Negative images is the main criteria
Infecting the young minds faster than bacteria
Kids wanna act like what they see in the cinemas
What happened to the love and the values of humanity?
(Where’s the love)
What happened to the love and the fairness and equality?
(Where’s the love)
Instead of spreading love we’re spreading animosity
(Where’s the love)
Lack of understanding leading us away from unity
(Where’s the love)
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Allan Pineda / Giorgio Hesdey Tuinfort / Jaime Gomez / Jayceon Taylor / Justin Timberlake / Khaled Khaled / Rakim Mayers / Will Adams

@Sonia
perhaps now , y’r inspired to believe in
Solopism or Solispism (wiki)
The notion that You are entirely alone as a non time , non space hyper powerful Being
That implies
Your family, you town/country/planet/univers
all that is of your making ( understandable against loneliness )
all atoms / molecules around an “in” you are fake, . . . It’s all your great fantastic imagination!
his trick doesn’t happen in You alone but also in all (non and ) conscious pieces
It fits perfectly in quantum mechanics
You might prefer it above Gurinder so can let yo go for a while
I’m a believer of this structure specially after my “meeting” with Charan JI,
next writing HIM : “Now I have YOU, Sir, . . I don’t need God anymore”
777
To make this discussion a little bit more shocking enlightening
Dont use. the figure … Each time I see I vomit on my keyboard

Dear 7💥7 and [newly]666,
Serendipity/Synchronicity: I used to work for a company with offices at 666 5th Ave and was up in the building a number of times. It was a Kushner property. Oddly, that gives us all only a few degrees of separation from Jared Kushner, his father-in-law plus every other world muckamuck…and…the…Antichrist.

But you are free to believe whatever you want and one other can spew out his concocted interpretation of a pretty straightforward utterance in plain easy to understand English.
Sd/-
Sath_Path
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 12, 2020 at 05:52 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

Hi Um
You asked
“@ Spence
” Where did you find evidence that the lord, if there is one, informed all the tribes all over the world from the promises he made to the Hebrews, their prophets and the prophets of other religions like Islam and Christianity?”
Studied world religions.
Almost all have a relationship with the divine, with expectations and promises.

Dear 7💥7 and [newly]666,
Serendipity/Synchronicity: I used to work for a company with offices at 666 5th Ave and was up in the building a number of times. It was a Kushner property. Oddly, that gives us all only a few degrees of separation from Jared Kushner, his father-in-law plus every other world muckamuck…and…the…Antichrist.
Posted by: anami | February 12, 2020 at 07:39 AM
😂😂😂
That’s pretty cool! 😃
Yeah, a Kushner property… I think they had some trouble selling it. They might still own it. Not sure. New York real estate is tough. I worked for a REIT/Real Estate Investment Trust on Park Ave a few blocks from Grand Central for a while. It was hands down the least favorite job I’ve ever had in my entire life. Dog eat dog. Every day the stress level was like a scene from Boiler Room. I was the only female there besides the CEO’s veteran secretary.
I might retire the Beast. It’s a bit brash, even for me. 😄

In like fashion we think the same mistaken thinking of our chosen stage actor Master…
Has a good partner,
has wealth and many, many fine temples the world over,
His lands and holdings are ever expanding
He is worshiped by many,
We think these things therefore are all good grace from God, and good for us too… We want that he has, possessions, power, authority, and take all these as the Lord’s Grace.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 11, 2020 at 04:50 PM
Really.
So cancer, highly diabetic, widow(er), embroiled in court cases etc – by your logic every disciple must be willing to give is right hand to have this too. After all since the Master has all this too it must be God’s grace and so would be good for us.
LoL

@Dera_Inc
Would sincere honest catholics ( if existing) want to be crucified ?
I hope that Gurinder
Adi Granth
“For Those who hear the Shabd, . . all Nature is in blossom and bloom”
I wish HIM That
Like last 55 years , . . when I see a star falling and I can do one wish
I awash wished
“That my mind be imbued in Thy Name, ”
we can all be happy and no worries. !!!
777
I m 83, don’t hide much . . only my name

Hi Tore!
You write
“So, The mantra is to draw your attention to the third Eye and the samskaras in the total chitta is burnt ,trough longing and love for God/Guru and Linstening to The Inner Sound?
” Is this the RS consept?
Yes, as far as my own experience, these are the initial stages.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM
Spence,
Your own experience you say…… Is it the RS experience? If not what’s this experience? Would you be kind enough to share some details.
You also refer to initial stages…. So what are these initial stages?
Tores question is pointed: is the RS concept – The mantra is to draw your attention to the third Eye and the samskaras in the total chitta is burnt ,trough longing and love for God/Guru and Linstening to The Inner Sound?
Is it so?

What humans are very hyper strong at
is LOVE
( so. . . hate also)
Understanding is nothing
and has zero value with God
who Himself doesn’t understand a thing
IQ Zero
She is to much engaged in LOVE
and has no time for
worthless stuff
while Engaged by all those incoming Param Saints
with their pockets full of stupid disciples
I said it before
Even when only ONE Saint comes per Galaxy
IT IS HUGE
777
.
Posted by: 777 | August 07, 2013 at 06:22 AM

Hi Dera Inc
“So cancer, highly diabetic, widow(er), embroiled in court cases etc – by your logic every disciple must be willing to give is right hand to have this too.”
Ideally. But ah, people cherry pick. If there is worldly wealth and power, everything else seems small.
There is an old Yiddish proverb
” If you are rich, you are handsome! And you sing well, too! ”

@ Spence
>> ” Where did you find evidence that the lord, if there is one, informed all the tribes all over the world from the promises he made to the Hebrews, their prophets and the prophets of other religions like Islam and Christianity?”
Studied world religions.
Almost all have a relationship with the divine, with expectations and promises. << Did I write something about divine relationships?! I don't think so. What did I write?! There are many incidents as can be found in holy books of the different religions … as there is Moses. who receive the message for the Hebrews that pieces of the earth are theirs for all generations to come and the words of the angel Gabriel that are to be found in the Koran. These are just examples I wanted to use to make it clear that Moses was the only one that received that message. That same message was not given to any other person on the world. If God gave that piece of land, it would be reasonable and polite if he informed the other tribes, and peoples all over the world that he had done so. Unfortunately he didn't tell the indigenous people of the america's, Australia, Azia etc etc that he had givem that land to the Hebrews. The same hold s for the messages to the prophet. There has been no lord that informed other persons about the messages he gave to the prophet, or told them to heed his words. So we only have the word of the prophet and only the word of Moses.... private experiences. The same holds for the content of any other inner experience by whatever mystic … they are all private and cannot and should not be generalized. That is all … this are no things you learn in University following comparative studies. It is to simple.

To make this discussion a little bit more shocking enlightening
Dont use. the figure … Each time I see I vomit on my keyboard
Posted by: 🙏🙏. 777 🙏🙏 | February 12, 2020 at 06:47 AM
Ok, what??? Are you talking about the ellipsis? The proper formatting is as follows:
…and (if it’s before a word)
and… (if it’s after a word)
1. Always 3 dots and only 3 dots
2. No spaces between the dots
3. No space between the ellipsis and the word that’s beginning or ending the thought.
4. However, always a space between the end of the ellipsis and the next thought. For example:
and… word
I worked as an ebook conversion editor for NetLibrary when I lived in Boulder, Colorado.
But, hey, I’m not a stickler. I don’t mind how other people choose to do it.
And if that’s not what you’re referring too, then please forgive me. I’ve been scrubbing the kitchen floors with bleach. Feeling like Cinderella 30 years later…

Really.
So cancer, highly diabetic, widow(er), embroiled in court cases etc – by your logic every disciple must be willing to give is right hand to have this too. After all since the Master has all this too it must be God’s grace and so would be good for us.
LoL
Posted by: Dera_Inc | February 12, 2020 at 11:14 AM
I don’t envy that position at all. Might be a lot easier to be nailed to a cross and done with it than to do what he’s doing day after day, year after year. Sounds like a prison of heartache and stress. I’m sure there are some perks but overall, a prison.

Just realized I mentioned two of my previous jobs just today. For the record, I’ve done just about everything. Worked in every exciting environment except for outer space. I’m 47 and I’m ready to retire. Actually, I decided at the end of last year that I am officially “retired”. I’m only working on projects that interest me from here on out. I used to be an insane workaholic always up for a new challenge and change of scenery. Not anymore…

Didn’t realize he was “highly” diabetic. That sucks. My dad is diabetic and my grandmother too—she ended up having both of her legs amputated as a result of diabetic complications. 😳
I subscribe to Dr. Berg’s YouTube channel. He said doctors should test all of their healthy patients’ pancreatic enzymes instead of waiting till they have a clinical diagnosis of diabetes. It takes on average 12 years for the disease to set in. So people think they are healthy just because they’re blood sugar is normal while not realizing that their pancreas may be working overtime to compensate. Eventually the pancreas wears out. And then you have diabetes.
I have a sweet tooth and if I were Indian (with the genetic predisposition that many Indians have for diabetes at such an early age) I’d be dead by now. 😬
I’ve cut back a lot on sugar and starches though. I’m a big salad eater. 😃
Doesn’t mean I won’t eventually get diagnosed with diabetes but I sure don’t want to wind up like my dad and grandma.

@Spence
@Um
Have you seen ‘Messiah’ on Netflix? Just curious what your thoughts are on the series if you’ve seen it.
Anyone else can chime in. It’s truly intriguing. Many Christians and Muslims have banned it, but tomato meter is high.

Really.
So cancer, highly diabetic, widow(er), embroiled in court cases etc – by your logic every disciple must be willing to give is right hand to have this too. After all since the Master has all this too it must be God’s grace and so would be good for us.
LoL
Posted by: Dera_Inc | February 12, 2020 at 11:14 AM
This statement made me sad. It’s easy for me to have empathy (in between my periodic drama tantrums).
On the bright side—he has excellent medical care. The court cases will come to an end eventually. So far the cancer is in remission I hope. And I’m sure any of his eligible followers would be happy to keep him company. But you can’t replace people—that part is sad.
Oh well… tell him to watch all those Ted Talks that I posted for Jen on how the mind heals the body. I don’t have any suggestions for the legal—hopefully he has good legal counsel. Be kind.
Life is short.

My dad is diabetic and my grandmother too—she ended up
Tell dad that he can prevent granny’s fate by
swinging one lef back & forth like a soccer player
10 times
Must be prudent and not hurt somebody
Next do the toes in a vacuum cleaner input
count to 10 each toe
Tell Gurinder the same please
BTW. for back pain an 120$ extension table fr amazon
for applying traction works great
But I wrote that in a letter to him years ago, tried to send one
to Beas; . . can t remember if it was accepted . . . there was a kind of difficulty … I forgot what. haha
BIW2
Against cancer 3 times p day a teaspoon with very fine grinder
flaxseed powder
and also a measles vaccination ( yes against cancer)
For those without cancer 2 teaspoons per week
By a good electric coffee grinder < must be very fine powder 77 77

Ideally. But ah, people cherry pick. If there is worldly wealth and power, everything else seems small.
There is an old Yiddish proverb
” If you are rich, you are handsome! And you sing well, too! ”
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 12, 2020 at 01:27 PM
Ideally. Haha. Let’s not talk of ideal(ly) for if initiates had ideally followed the path every single one would be an enlightened one. Sonia wouldnt feel the need to seek out, even ask in here the coordinates of another master (basis GSD’s statement of there being at least 2 masters always present); for one amongst the 20million Buddhas (RSSB followers) would be her.
The poster A Wise Owl doesn’t seem to have misunderstood the beautiful quote. Infact if you look carefully (s)he hasn’t penned a word about his understanding of Hazur’s quote. Only you have and it’s now settled by subsequent exchange on this, that your understanding was flawed.
Hazur is bang on about OUR concept of HIS grace when he says “Our concept of his grace is something very different – it is always from the worldly point of view.”
What’s supposedly good (grace) and bad (lack of grace) for us, WE decide for ourselves and it’s not at all based what the master has or doesn’t have in his personal life.
And we EXPECT these goods come and the bads don’t come our way (HIS grace) because of our belief that Master has the power to grant these but alas with misplaced belief that we know better than God/Master what’s right or wrong for us.

There are many incidents as can be found in holy books of the different religions … as there is Moses. who receive the message for the Hebrews that pieces of the earth are theirs for all generations to come and the words of the angel Gabriel that are to be found in the Koran.
These are just examples I wanted to use to make it clear that Moses was the only one that received that message. That same message was not given to any other person on the world. If God gave that piece of land, it would be reasonable and polite if he informed the other tribes, and peoples all over the world that he had done so. Unfortunately he didn’t tell the indigenous people of the america’s, Australia, Azia etc etc that he had givem that land to the Hebrews.
The same hold s for the messages to the prophet. There has been no lord that informed other persons about the messages he gave to the prophet, or told them to heed his words. So we only have the word of the prophet and only the word of Moses…. private experiences.
The same holds for the content of any other inner experience by whatever mystic … they are all private and cannot and should not be generalized.
That is all … this are no things you learn in University following comparative studies.
It is to simple.
Posted by: Um | February 12, 2020 at 01:36 PM
Hi Um,
The questions i have for you are
1) Is God obliged to tell the rest of humanity his communication with individuals considered as prophets?
2) Isn’t in Christianity, Jewish and Moslem religions Prophet a person who is sent by God to teach the people and give them messages from God?
I’m pretty certain God wouldn’t have conveyed to each of these prophets that his message needs to be limited to only certain privileged lot and/or tracts of land have been either reserved as theirs or ordained as Holy Lands. Probably convenient distortions over time to suit agendas of the keepers of religions.
3) Does God need to tell humanity via prophets to heed his words? Does God need us? Or is it the other way around?
4) Teachings or the word of God as revealed to these prophets by God – are they universal? Consistent across time and geography? Even Mohammad referred to Allah/Rabb as Rabbul Aalameen and not Rabbul Musalmeen i.e. that Lord who belongs to All and not just Muslims.
Comparative studies ——> useful if objective is to find commonality across teachings (which have taken the form of religion now?. But alas it’s usually as the name suggests….. So comparative i.e. finding differences and only therefore useless probably even divisive.
5) Isn’t RSSB philosophy comparative studies in a way? Haven’t you heard (if you are on the path) in almost every discourse by the Master (Hazur certainly) that the intent of taking verses of different prophets is to only highlight that at the core – there is only one message conveyed, across time and geography?
Sd/-
Sath_Path

What’s supposedly good (grace) and bad (lack of grace) for us, WE decide for ourselves and it’s not at all based what the master has or doesn’t have in his personal life.
And we EXPECT these goods come and the bads don’t come our way (HIS grace) because of our belief that Master has the power to grant these but alas with misplaced belief that we know better than God/Master what’s right or wrong for us.
Posted by: Dera_Inc | February 12, 2020 at 07:28 PM
I believe people can be happy under almost any circumstance if they look within.

@Dera_Inc
BTW, I was being sarcastic about asking GSD who the other perfect master is.
😂😂😂

And I don’t think GSD or any of the Master stated there would be “2” perfect living masters” at any given time. But now I’m just getting into tedious detail.
Yes, if I had followed the Golden Rule I’d be a much more enlightened soul by now.

And I don’t think GSD or any of the Master stated there would be “2” perfect living masters” at any given time. But now I’m just getting into tedious detail.
Yes, if I had followed the Golden Rule I’d be a much more enlightened soul by now.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 12, 2020 at 11:29 PM
Suprise suprise…. It’s been said on occasions that there usually is more than one perfect master present. Unfortunately hidden.

@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
What I wrote has nothing to do with God, prophets and mystics but what humans do with the “inner experiences” of these people.
Inner experiences are individual and cannot and should not be generalised.
You see besides the example I gave of Moses and The Prophet one can also look at the different occasions when people started there own branch of Sant mat, started to give initiations, based on the “commands” of the inner master. When asked if they verified that command with the outer master in Beas, they invariable say that there is no need to as, …The outer master in Beas had said that the real thing is the inner master.
Again …those who hear voices in their heads, do hear THOSE voices alone and nobody else. Nobody else hears the same voice, nor do others hear voices that tell them to obey what the first person said.
In fact, there is no difference between the content of dreams, hearing voices, BDE’s, inner experiences artificial provoked by plant material. They are all individual and unique …. and … the source is the brain.
Thoughts and emotions do arise from the brain and so do inner experiences. We have no clue how the brain generates these contents.
You believe there is a God, based upon your experiences
Seeing God inside doesn’t mean that there is a God making himself seen to you.
Naturaly it will be difficult for one who has it to think in that way
But … you have had your whole life these experiences that made you happy …. it just doesn’t matter how these experiences came to be. The problem is not with you the receiver of the experience but with those to whom they are told and believe upon them as told.
See how many wars there issued from that believe in the words of these prophets … generation upon generation!!

@ 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
As to point 3-5 …
Years ago I read an article of an neuro psychologist about his experiments related to the effects of deprivation of sensory stimuli on the brain … He found that if the brain, is deprived of these stimuli, the brain starts to create them, in order to survive.
Meditation is nothing but deprivation of these stimuli o manipulation of the brain.
High school of pleasure seeking. … it is also used in free floating tanks
In older days our ancestors believed in gods that created thunder etc until the time they came to understand it as a electromagnetic fenomena … that wil also happen for the fenomen in the brain soner or later

Hi Dera Inc
You write
“Ideally. Haha. Let’s not talk of ideal(ly) for if initiates had ideally followed the path every single one would be an enlightened one.”
Well, you must know, right?
Personally we have achieved the goal of our desires and now must pay the fees.
“The Gods grant the wishes of those they would destroy.”

3) Does God need to tell humanity via prophets to heed his words? Does God need us? Or is it the other way around?
Sd/-
Sath_Path
Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | February 12, 2020 at 10:10 PM
Both. The soul is part of God and must return to its source. The soul cannot die and every living thing has a soul. If we are part of God then his extension of himself must eventually return to himself. This is what he desires which is why he sends Saints and Mystics.
But I’m getting a little bit tired of having to argue over and over again that “God is Love”. If you choose not to believe that then I hope we can at least agree to disagree.

@🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
A Master/Guru/Teacher that demands subservience, submission and full surrender from their followers while throwing spiritual threats at them such as they are “unworthy of God’s love”, “separate from a God who doesn’t need (care about them)” hasn’t learned what love is himself. So, how can he teach of love? And if you can teach about love then you can’t teach about God.
Perhaps “inheriting” wealth without having to work for it is not a very good system.
Being appointed master with the belief that you are karmaless/perfect/GIHF yet all your brothers and sisters are full of sins and separate from the divine and that you must make them submit to your will and ego in order to be allowed back to their heavenly home is diametrically opposed to God’s will.
What you are doing is diametrically opposed to God’s will. You need to learn what love is. You need to learn humility for yourself before you start lording your spiritual threats over the rest of the world whom you see as inferior.
Up until now you have been unwilling to hear the truth—that God IS love. Until you understand what that means you will be lost.

“the intent of taking verses of different prophets is to only highlight that at the core – there is only one message conveyed, across time and geography? ”
No. The intent is to show that there is a secret thread connecting a few special personalities from each tradition, and that RSSB is the only one holding the secret right now.
If they were teaching that all religions are the same, they’d tell you to go fill and revive your crumbling churches instead of telling you to leave your religion.

“The soul cannot die and every living thing has a soul.”
If you cut a worm in half, do the two halves then share one soul, or does a new soul enter one of the now separate “living things?”

“The Gods grant the wishes of those they would destroy.”
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 13, 2020 at 05:12 AM
Is this RSSB philosophy?
Sd/-
Sath_Path

@all
keep it simple
Gurinder got the “package containing Naam” 2distribute
further we know nothing
unless yo can see within
So, ….. seee rs . . . . Let’s Vote. . . . OMG
after all Gurinder said : 4info read Brian Hines
LOL
777

@Brian
So U can prepare a voting form
a)
What region you have access ?
What was the highest yo were?
b)
Ever seen Gurinder in one of them?
In which region U saw HIM
recently
If Yes , Was there any communication?
c) Did U do Simran ?
d) Did U hear the Anabad Shabd.
LOL. ( makes mr think about Saligram )

Up until now you have been unwilling to hear the truth—that God IS love. Until you understand what that means you will be lost.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 13, 2020 at 05:35 AM
Really….I can’t help it if you want to extract some non existing content from my posts which allude to what God is or that God is not love.
Keep digging.
Sd/-
Sath_Path

If they were teaching that all religions are the same, they’d tell you to go fill and revive your crumbling churches instead of telling you to leave your religion.
Posted by: Jesse | February 13, 2020 at 05:55 AM
Kindly provide an extract of my post which mentions RSSB teaches all religions are the same.
Maybe for you there is no difference between teachings/message conveyed and religions that were built around them subsequently.
Also can someone confirm he/she has heard RSSB telling that Santmat requires initiates to give up their religions.
🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Charan :The Teachings make U understand your own religion

“The soul cannot die and every living thing has a soul.”
If you cut a worm in half, do the two halves then share one soul, or does a new soul enter one of the now separate “living things?”
Posted by: Jesse | February 13, 2020 at 05:57 AM
We all share the same “soul”. Anything with life in it is sustained by the life giving force. Only minds are separate. Maybe the worm that is cut in half then has two minds and each goes their own way. I’m not expert on the mind.
We all share the same soul as disturbing as that me sound to some. It just shows we’re all equal and it’s the illusion of the mind that makes us think we’re separate. The mind (to be fair, the ego) loves to create hierarchies. The ego loves status and “specialness” and wants us to believe that some are holier than others.
In my experience, atheists in general are more attuned to the life force that we all share because they value this one life. They don’t perform acts of kindness for the sake of a better place in heaven or the reward of an afterlife. They seem to give more and care more about the earth we live in and have a strong understanding of the laws of karma—cause and effect because they want to make this one life as good as it can be. They don’t devalue this precious life we have.
That said, I do believe in God and an afterlife. But spiritual teachers who insist on creating hierarchies of love and hierarchies of the heavens are preaching from the ego.
No wonder people stop believing in God.

@ If you cut a worm in half, do the two halves then share one soul,
@ or does a new soul enter one of the now separate “living things?”
I hear tell there are no “new” souls… only “the one”.
So, I’m just guessin’, of course, but I’d say Master Soul
just grabs a beaker, spits a little DNA sample in, mixes
in a secret sauce of God only know what, and then
sprinkles a drop into the soul-less half. Voila!
One final blessing and a freshly minted soul drop heeds
God’s Whisper to “be ye fruitful, bring forth abundantly
in the earth, and multiply therein.”

Hi 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈
And please don’t ask me to pronounce that!
You asked
“Is this RSSB philosophy?”
You’d have to ask a Secretary or Gurinder.
This is one of a few pithy aphorisms from Ambrose Bierce, who wrote, among other things, The Devil’s Dictionary.
Here are, paraphrased, four lessons from history…. Which prove themselves over and over through time, including today…
1. The gods grant the wishes of those they would destroy.
2. The bee robs the flower of fertilizes.
3. As the sun grows brighter, shadows grow darker.
4. It is only in the darkness of night that the stars come out.

Sant Mat has elaborately complicated the very nature of God and the soul. It got the mind part half right. The very strong illusion of the first three realms is just purely symbolic of the ego. It’s like LSD—a lot of people shared the same experiences (for a while) because of the collective consciousness of a few who in a sense created those worlds. Many religions have their own versions of “the different levels of heaven” that they collectively created and their heavens are different from RS. This is the effect of indoctrination.
Then they try to go beyond that. The hierarchies of their “heavens” is a representation of the cultural norms of a caste system. It was that sort of mindset that instilled in them the belief that one must get back home traveling the realms of the ego. The higher mind is reason. And a reasonable person can see the absurdity of idol worship whether it’s an animate (animal or human) or inanimate object. Reverence and worship are two different things.
The soul/God/spirit/love/life force or whatever you want to call it is what gives life and connects us all. If you can recognize the difference between the ego and the mind then you can recognize truth.
This isn’t something that any RS Master will ever accept because then they would be out of a job.
It doesn’t matter what religion you belong to, what you’re spiritual beliefs are or if you don’t believe in God at all—everyone from nonbelievers to religious fanatics share similar NDEs, near death experiences. NDEs are essentially ego death.
When you place your self worth above or below anyone else, you are living by the ”laws of the ego”.
RS Masters don’t understand the difference between the ego and the mind.

Hi Um
You write
“Inner experiences are private and cannot be generalised and made into “carrots” for the rest of humanity withhout the consent of the lord and his advise to all to heed these private words.”
The human body is much the same, so there is nothing wrong with sharing our inner experiences. If you visit somewhere on a vacation and say” this spot was really lovely, ” other people may think” how nice. Glad you had a nice time. ”
But share even the smallest of inner experiences and boy what emotional reactions,” that can’t be real! “..” Shhh keep that hidden! Do not speak such things! “…” He lies!! ”
LOL
This is all the fault of religion.
Inner experiences are just another part of the natural world.
Who says “you must be close to God! You have visited Paris! You were born in Paris? You are Godlike!”
Or who says, “Paris?! Never mention that ever again! Be silent, Satan!”
God, how silly people are.
They make things scarce that are within reach. And even if they are not, still, they elevate such distant things that have no greater altitude. Just different geography.

RS Masters don’t understand the difference between the ego and the mind.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 13, 2020 at 01:50 PM
Kindly share your beliefs about what is the mind and ego and the differences between the two. It would help if you also share the basis of this belief be it religious or scientic literature
No RSSB bullshit ya since RS Masters don’t understand the difference between the ego and the mind.

Hi Dera. Inc
You wrote
“misplaced belief that we know better than God/Master what’s right or wrong for us.”
If you believe your Master knows what’s best for you, that someone else knows what’s best for you, then why not you too?
Why don’t you know what’s best for you, Dera Inc?
And as for God/Master, who says your Master is God?
Did he say that?
Or are you saying that?
Hold on a minute, didn’t you just say they know better?
Maybe they know something you don’t. About themselves.
But about knowing yourself, shouldn’t you?

As for the stage actor Gurus who do teach some wise teachings, who do give a good method of meditation, who do teach kindness and charity, humility and obescience to God, but who do not live by the same teachings….
“The bee robs the flower it fertilizes”
Often in the form of non-convertable unsecured Bank debentures…

RS Masters don’t understand the difference between the ego and the mind.
Posted by: Sonia Taylor | February 13, 2020 at 01:50 PM
Kindly share your beliefs about what is the mind and ego and the differences between the two. It would help if you also share the basis of this belief be it religious or scientic literature
No RSSB bullshit ya since RS Masters don’t understand the difference between the ego and the mind.
Posted by: Steve Kinsella | February 13, 2020 at 06:06 PM
Hi Steve,
I’m not going to quote specific texts from various religious traditions as the meaning of terms varies among different thought systems. Nor do I expect you to agree and understand what I’m saying but I’ll break it down as best I can.
The spirit encompasses everything. There is no part of existence where spirit that supports life does not exist. Some call the spirit the soul. Some call the soul the body. Some call the soul a drop in the ocean separate from God and some say the soul is an extension of God.
I’m getting really tired of the use of the word soul simply because it is defined so drastically differently among religions and spiritual philosophies.
There is no where that “God”/the life force/love does not exist. The space in between spaces is filled the life force that many call God.
So the “spirit” which I will define as God/love/life force is in every atom and permeates everything. The ego seeks to make us feel separate in every way imaginable. Separate from the spirit that sustains live. That Spirit is love. Without love nothing could live. The ego seeks to “destroy love” due to its own ignorance because the ego is not self realized. The ego is anger, fear, separation and will do anything—absolutely anything to preserve its own existence. However, because the ego is an illusion, the spirit/Love/God uses the higher mind to bring awareness to the true nature of life.
Only the higher mind can become self realized. The higher mind is consistent in truth and reason. It makes us aware of the spirit that permeates everything. The higher mind leads us to “God realization” or the realization that we are all connected by the same life force that could otherwise be called Love.
These are all just terms and words.
The just of this is, God/Love/Spirit permeates and connects everything. The ego is fear. The ego serves to preserve itself through separation. Spiritual teachers use the reason of the higher mind to show us the true nature of the ego so that we can escape the pain and suffering of separation that the ego demands.
As for the “soul” it’s a term used to loosely and differently among different religious traditions that it’s nature is hard to describe.
In Sant May the soul is separate from God “like drops in the ocean”. But God/Spirit cannot be divided or separated. Do you think a tree has its own soul? What about each individual leave on the tree? What about each fruit that grows on the tree and drops to the ground. Where does one soul begin and the other begin? If you believe the term soul applies to God then you must realize God cannot be separated. Every molecule contains the very essence of life that sustains is all much like air. We breath in. We breath out. The air that you exhale will be inhaled by another in many various forms.
The ego is fear and separation.
The higher mind is truth and self realization. The very self realization that leads us to the awareness that the Great Life Giving Spirit known as God and Love permeates everything. There is no place where “God” does not exist.
The ego is simply an illusion telling itself every lie imaginable to preserve its separateness.

My apologies for not proofreading that before I hit “Post”, but I think you can decider the typos.

Darshan
The Look of Love
Don’t ever go
I love You SO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQuDaIbpA1g
777

Hey Sonia
I hear ya – nice to read something from someone with a similar take on what ‘soul’ is/is not and also from a RSSB initiate too.
I think the whole shebang throughout religious history particularly in the West has created a problem with this notion of a separated soul or ‘spark’ of the divine. Maybe its the word itself. It’s my view that many folk consider this soul thing to be an ‘entity’. It’s just taken for granted that ‘inside’ we are this entity somehow related to a bigger picture.
Religious teachings such as RSSB dogma built a whole system about giving this separate entity a way to be reconnected. This is a dualistic process.
Other traditions such as Buddhism keep the soul out of the process and concentrate (excuse the pun) on mind and realisation of such things as ‘anatta’ or no-self. In light of my own experience my interpretation is that the so-called separate soul is actually the self, small s (thought creation) rather than the Self, and that Self is the soul.
We are actually Soul not ‘a soul’. Soul is consciousness. As you say “There is no where that “God”/the life force/love does not exist. The space in between spaces is filled the life force that many call God.” While you may use different terms I think we are talking of the same thing. We are already IT, we only believe and think ourselves separated from it, as someone said EGO = Easing God Out. The so-called spiritual path is about realising we are not separate – ‘we’ never were.
Dogma of RSSB helps to strengthen the notion of separation imo. This is contradicted by the likes of GSD when he tells the likes of Osho Robbins that there is only the One, and on other occasions like when he said ‘Soul is the Truth’ – I was present when he said the latter.
While this involves some intellectualising, I consider that understanding and seeing/processing this stuff and letting go of (or at least investigating) strongly held ‘unquestioned’ belief in such things as separate souls, can only help us on the journey.
Came across a great term in the Recognition Sutras the other day that you might like: “Confabulating” – i.e. the inner commentator (who self-references and self-images constantly – i.e. the ‘self’) makes up plausible explanations for things, including one’s own behaviour, that actually have little to no basis in fact, while concealing to oneself that the explanation is fabricated. 🙂
BFN

The issue of visiting higher regions is a real issue. But not because they exist in some non – physical space. It is an issue because we have lost the ability to see what is inside of our own body using the internal senses.
The brain can and does filter and amplify signals all the time. It filters out the internal signals below a certain level, and magnifies the rest of the sensory signals. Even to they point of becoming incredibly burdensome.
So closing our eyes we think nothing is there. We are plagued with thoughts, emotions and other triggers. But that is wrong. We need to learn to go within, to quiet the external senses and sensitize our awareness to the internal ones. The internal experience is rich. But most people simply haven’t developed their own sensitivity to it.
And it is a place of bliss and peace.
When you shut off the signals from the senses, when you turn down the volume of thoughts, once the gain drops below a certain level, the brain itself shuts off those signals, switches on noise cancelation, and then an entire world comes to life. Then the internal signals get magnified. Aka, bell sound and flood of lights, model of the universe, flight through the stars, etc.. All part of the brain.
It’s a skill, it’s real, and it is largely physiological. And yes, most people can learn to adjust those controls and trigger those switches.
Turning down the gain on thoughts turns down the gain on anxiety.
And when that noise cancelling switch kicks in, the inner signals are magnified, become conscious. And it’s all bliss, light and more.

When the brain shuts down all proprioception, the experience is weightless floating. It’s great. And then the slightest inner experience of focus takes us to the object of our focus and it feels like being shot like a rocket of immense speed. Very small sensory signals, in the absence of external sensory input, when the external input is switched off, become huge sensory experiences.

Hi Tim,
Thanks so much for your comment! I understand completely what you are saying and couldn’t agree more.
Sometimes I am in a quandary as to what GSD himself believes vs the old RSSB dogma. Either way, I’m tired of arguing my viewpoint with the head honchos/inner circle at the Dera. I’m at peace with what I believe to be the truth. They say, there are beliefs and then there is certainty and those are two different things. One simply cannot prove to another their own truth so there’s no point in arguing about it.
Thanks again for your comment. I like your acronym for EGO—Edging God Out. That sums it up perfectly!

@ Religious teachings such as RSSB dogma built a whole system about giving
@ this separate entity a way to be reconnected.
Actually, I think RSSB mystics say we’re already connected.
We never left. We simply lost awareness of our oneness.
There is no separate entity. It’s the One diminishing its
awareness for a thrill-ride in duality. It simply blows the
mind trying to conceive of a One with Total Awareness
and diminished awareness as well. Immersed in duality,
we try to frame it conceptually as two separate “entities”
when it isn’t.
The “dogma” is for the sake of the mind which wants some
“busy work” to feel important. You know, “work hard, simran
for 2+ hrs, plenty of seva, watch out for Kal!”. The mind even
cooks up a few rules of its own such as: “put a pasty love-glow
on your face while listening to Master, simran counts even if
your thoughts are elsewhere, physical Master doesn’t make
mistakes… no, not even innocent ones.”

GSD is literally the only thing that has kept me attached to the path in one way or another even though so much of RSSB does not resonate with me. Sometimes I think that if I had had any other Master I could have walked away from Sant Mat and never given it another thought. I was in love with my Master and not the path. As weird as that may sound it’s true. But it’s not helpful.

Yep. I was in love with GSD. That’s messed up.

Not having kids is what drove me away from Sant Mat. I blamed that on him. It’s crazy but that’s what happened. Perhaps for the best… oh well. There is really nothing more for me to say about it. It’s part of my past.

The internal motivation behind diabetes: “Longing for what might have been. A great need for control. Deep sorrow. No sweetness left.”

According to my calculations Gurinder SIngh will leave this year.
Successor is someone from SIngapore.

According to my calculations Gurinder SIngh will leave this year.
Successor is someone from SIngapore.
Posted by: Rahul Singh | February 14, 2020 at 10:58 PM
Sorry but leave as in? – leave gurudom or Beas or India or world or……
Can you also calculate when I will leave and who / from where will be my successor?

“Kindly provide an extract of my post which mentions RSSB teaches all religions are the same.
Maybe for you there is no difference between teachings/message conveyed and religions that were built around them subsequently.
Also can someone confirm he/she has heard RSSB telling that Santmat requires initiates to give up their religions.”
It’s implied that the religions are the same when you say ” at the core – there is only one message conveyed, across time and geography” which I guess you cut and paste from a RS book and which I quoted the first time. Only one core message being conveyed sorta means THE SAME. What difference is the outer stuff if the CORE MESSAGE IS THE SAME? One message. ONE MESSAGE= THE SAME MESSAGE. ONE can’t be different from itself. Goodness f****ing god. Why do I have to explain your words to you? The “religions built around them” are the conveyed message to everyone who isn’t part of RSSB and other reality-denying cults.
But actually, the core message of these religions isn’t the same like rssb and others say. They just conveniently quote mine for passages in various religious books that sound similar regardless of what those religions teach. Normal non-cultish people recognize it as being extremely arrogant.
And joining sant mat necessarily requires one to leave their own religion unless of course you’re a Hindu. I can’t be a Muslim and also worship and/or call Gurinder Singh Dhillon a prophetmessanger/guru etc as is required to be part of RSSB. The concept of Christ being God and the eucharist being the method of worship is non-negotiable in Christianity.No Gurus allowed. Christians have their own Saints, none of them are non-Christian Punjabi businessmen. There are no accepted gurus in Judaism. There is no passage in the Torah giving one an exemption to worship foreign godmen and do non-Judaic worship of non-Hashem gods.
Sadly Brian has banned insults, because you know what you deserve right now.

Thank you Tim!
I think you naled it,about the teachings of Santmat.
My fear was the teachings..
So I became splitted because of love for Maharaji..
And later also differently for Babaji..it really was a different sort..
But anyways..the teachings brought fear and separation..
They tell/told often also about the pangs of separation..
While the teachings brought just that in..
So I experienced that at times ..especially in Maharaji’s period of time.

Hey Dungeness
Great comment. ‘There is no separate entity. It’s the One diminishing its
awareness for a thrill-ride in duality’ – like it. Be a fine quote!
I kind of agree with you that RSSB ‘mystics’ say we never left particularly when they state such things like ‘Love is becoming another being’ etc.
What I still don’t get is why there’s so much emphasis on: – ‘Look mate, I made you separate from me and kicked you out of here, now it’s your job to earn my help to get your sorry arse back here. If you’re lucky (as I’m not in any real hurry) you may manage to do this after struggling through 4 lifetimes’.
Recipe for staunch believers!

https://youtu.be/6uWCNHQgfnc

@ But spiritual teachers who insist on creating hierarchies of love and
@ hierarchies of the heavens are preaching from the ego.
I think we create our own hierarchies and then ascribe them to
the teacher. The teachers’ handouts are just playthings for crying
children. The child remains absorbed in them before his nap.
Handouts can only hint at the fragrance of a transcendent reality.
They’re metaphors for a reality which must be experienced
within. But the child literalizes them. He’s tunnel-visioned. He sees
only rules and “thou shalt and thou shalt not’ on stone tablets.
It carries into adulthood. We prefer daily rituals, priests to give
absolution, dramas, foils to shout at when things go wrong.
These are our playthings. We hold them fast… the things
outside so near and dear. One day we finally tire of them.

The Fuck-it Bucket might just be the Holy Grail for people left disillusioned by spirituality. If you’re full of holes does that make you a holy person? I’m going to go with yes for now.
http://www.rebellesociety.com/2014/03/21/your-new-life-philosophy-the-fuck-it-bucket/
“What Is the Fuck-It Bucket? Good question.
The Fuck-It Bucket is a rhyming mantra of magic that will revolutionize your world, if you let it.
Let it!
The Fuck-It Bucket is a tongue-in-cheek, heart-in-mouth philosophy of life that will improve your future, if you permit it.
Permit it!
The Fuck-It Bucket is a no nonsense, hilarity-promoting, adventure-assisting, stress-relieving framework that will enhance your existence, if you allow it.
Allow it!
The Fuck-It Bucket is the bastard child of Shit happens and Don’t worry, be happy.”

Uh, oh. Don’t be a “None”. You’d be better off being an actual nun or an atheist. According to research, conviction gives meaning and purpose—atheist or believer. I guess the rudderless-I-don’t know-doldrums are potentially perilous sailing through the dense fog of mental illness in whatever form it may present itself—depression, anxiety or anything else listed in the DSMV 5.
If I could escape the world and live the life of a monk or a nun I’d do it in a heartbeat. But I’ve got this thing called a husband… oh, and the cat. But most importantly, I’m tied to my dog. God or my dog? 🤔
The No None Nonsense article link:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201812/the-mental-health-atheists-and-the-nones
Here’s a little prayer I’ve adopted recently:
Thank you, oh Heavenly Father for Big Pharma. Seeing as life is short and humans are inclined to be full of doubts you have sent these pharmaceutical messengers into the world to provide us with the science that has given birth to a multitude of formulas otherwise known as “sanity in a bottle”. And thank you for Temples of Pharmacy working 24/7 delivering hope and goodwill.
Perhaps one day a wholey being will deliver us from these potions of promise, but until then I think you’re doing a bang up job.
Amen.

”It carries into adulthood. We prefer daily rituals, priests to give
absolution, dramas, foils to shout at when things go wrong.
These are our playthings. We hold them fast… the things
outside so near and dear. One day we finally tire of them. ”
Dungness.
I agree here with you..
In fact some mantra can be helpfull and good also for focus.
When feeling the ”Oness” or God ”inside oneselves and all around”
Then nothing is really to do..
It’s already there..
Sadana ,awareness gives focus that’s for sure.
But the all the time talking about karma and chaurasi,is not so good imo.
Love compassion peace strength being” vulnarable”has also his place in being humble..
Some thoughts..

Today I was in satsang and I loved to be there..
Felt love and understanding..
It was like coming home actually..
I was also touched by hearing about Babaji..
Some things just happen..

Once upon a time, a young man decided to leave his homeland and go to learn from the great teacher Jalaluddin Rumi in Konya. After weeks of arduous travel, he finally reached the outskirts of Konya and saw a gracious presence walking toward him. The young man knew in his heart that this was Pir Jalaluddin. The young man dropped to his knees in prostration before this great teacher whom he had been seeking, but as he arose, he found Pir Jalaluddin was prostrated in the dirt in front of the young man.
Amazed and embarrassed, the young man again prostrated himself, and again when he arose, Pir Jalaluddin was again prostrated before him. This happened over and over and over and over again until the exasperated young man finally said “Why are you, my teacher, prostrating yourself in the dust before me, a mere seeker?”
To which Pir Jalaluddin simply replied “If I did not show you my nothingness, what would I be useful for?”
Quite a remarkable insight isn’t it?? … to be useful for our nothingness!
What a magnificent antidote to the ego’s preoccupation with “I”, “me” and “mine”!

“Even if we are not all drawn to tread the path of the mystic, we need to be reminded that this note of divine love belongs to all of us. In a time of so much division in the world, it is important to reclaim this primal truth that belongs to our heritage: this great song of the soul that celebrates the oneness that is within the heart of each of us and underlies all of creation. This has particular relevance when we confront our present ecological crisis. We can no longer afford to think of the environment as something separate, outside of us. We need an awareness of the “oneness of being” of which we are all a part, and actions that come from this awareness. This awareness of unity is one of the most important contributions of the mystic at this moment in time.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mysticism-living-loves-oneness_b_1304518

Today I was in satsang and I loved to be there..
Felt love and understanding..
It was like coming home actually..
I was also touched by hearing about Babaji..
Some things just happen..
Posted by: s* | February 16, 2020 at 08:19 AM
I’m happy you had that experience. 🙂

The idea of soul is that underneath all our differences the best and purest part of ourselves, the real life within us, is actually identical. We are basically the same, children of the same Father. And this soul is incorruptible. We can become corrupted, because mind can be conditoned by our environment. We move through age and age influenced by the stages of life. But soul is beyond conditioning in this physical world. Beyond the temptations and corruptions of time.
It’s a beautiful concept. The idea that the purest thing on earth is within us, and we can learn to awaken that purity, become conscious of it, even become aware of that, and think and act from the soul, rather than the body or mind. Or you could call it higher mind.
Conceptually, it’s like a tennis player imaging a beam of light from their racket to the desired destination spot on their opponent’s side. It helps the player focus and coordinates all their muscles to actually serve the ball to that exact spot. Of course there is no actual beam of light. But visualizing it coordinates a complex number of unconscious and even autonomic muscle and movement controls.
So the idea of our soul, the focus on the soul, even as a part of the creator, part of the Master or the Lord of all, has its effect to set our values and our actions high, and gives us a solid platform of faith to carry us through the vagaries of life. It is the very basis of brotherhood.

And thank you for Temples of Pharmacy working 24/7 delivering hope and goodwill.
I guess the Indian non-touching each other mentality
adds greatly to the not being corona affectedness
Perhaps the delicious spicy food helps too
7

So the idea of our soul, the focus on the soul, even as a part of the creator, part of the Master or the Lord of all, has its effect to set our values and our actions high, and gives us a solid platform of faith to carry us through the vagaries of life. It is the very basis of brotherhood.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 17, 2020 at 12:28 AM
Yes… sometimes communication breaks down simply because of the different meanings ascribed to the same word by different groups.
Obviously we can’t “purify” the soul because it’s that part of us and all creation that is perfectly pure to begin with. It is our connection to the Dive Life and Lights that permeates everything (AKA, God).
So, the shadow ego of selfishness in its darkest sense should be placed in the light so that the mind can be purified. And once that happens we realize we are truly spirit—connected divine light.
Rephrasing things is like looking at a piece of art—a sculpture—from every angle. 🙂

Thank you very much Sonia!
You never go to satsang?
<3

Beautiful post Spence..
<3

I guess the Indian non-touching each other mentality
adds greatly to the not being corona affectedness
Perhaps the delicious spicy food helps too
7
Posted by: 💥 | February 17, 2020 at 05:53 AM
Ummm… yeah. Add to that, Indians have a stronger immune system in general. If you can bathe in the Ganges… Jesus
I attribute this to India’s higher fertility rates too. But don’t ask me for the science on that. I don’t feel like doing the digging.
https://www.natureasia.com/en/nindia/article/10.1038/nindia.2008.254
https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/blog/hotter-better-spicy-foods-can-boost-health/

And, maybe you haven’t noticed but Indians are quite “touchy” just not so much with members of the opposite sex in public.

So the idea of our soul, the focus on the soul, even as a part of the creator, part of the Master or the Lord of all, has its effect to set our values and our actions high, and gives us a solid platform of faith to carry us through the vagaries of life. It is the very basis of brotherhood.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 17, 2020 at 12:28 AM
Yes. In Sant Mat they say the mind is a terrible Master but a good servant. I guess that’s one way of putting it. But it helps me to understand it better realizing that the ego is “the terrible Master” and the Mind is the “good servant”.
Sometimes I think we’re all pretty close to being on the same page except for the fact that so many things get lost in translation. I guess ever since the (mythical) Tower of Babel on fell we’ve all been trying to sift through and make sense of a lot of psycho babble.
The Old Testament talks about how language divided man (Genesis story of Babel) and The New Testament talks about the “Word”. I know the meanings of each aren’t literal and aren’t even compared in the Bible but I think it speaks to how easily divided we can become due to poor communication.
A lot of times married couples fight about things over and over again only to wind up in front of a therapist that helps them realize they just suck at communicating. Sometimes they were actually on the same page to begin with…
One big fight leads to a lot of small petty fights and the divide grows deeper and wider. This happens in families, communities, countries…

Thank you very much Sonia!
You never go to satsang?
<3
Posted by: s* | February 17, 2020 at 07:15 AM
I do on special occasions. Of course, someone on here is going to tell me that every satsang is a special occasion. I have a lot to work through. I realize now that part of me will never be able to “walk away” but my beliefs are different. The love is there and always will be (despite EVERYTHING). I don’t love the Master out of fear or obligation. I just love him. So, that makes it kind of weird and probably incredibly annoying for him. He can’t control me but I won’t “leave”. I’m not really trying to change that fact anymore. I’m just trying to accept it—whatever it means. I think most people love the master out of fear or because they want something in return. As obnoxious and miserable as I may be in his mind at times, at least my love is genuine.

Sonia I have also over the years realized that many many people come to the master and the path because of their needs and wants and not for true spiritual purposes. Mostly they are worldly desires. The true lover is rare and extremely fortunate.

Hey s*
Always cool to see/read a sufi story!
Afterwards I went to the bookcase and grabbed a book and opened it at this page:
“The Gamble of the Self”
‘Real prayer can only be yours
When you have staked and gambled yourself away
And your essence is pure.
Then “a joy of the eyes” are your prayers
And no separation remains,
For knower and known are one and the same”.
from Shabistari The Secret Rose Garden.
Best wishes

Sonia I have also over the years realized that many many people come to the master and the path because of their needs and wants and not for true spiritual purposes. Mostly they are worldly desires. The true lover is rare and extremely fortunate.
Posted by: Jen from Austin Texas | February 17, 2020 at 01:13 PM
Thanks for your comment, Jen. A lot of people don’t understand me or my behavior or even what is at the heart of my struggle with GSD and this path. I don’t even understand myself but I’m beginning too.
I had tremendous anxiety and panic attacks while I was more active with the path. And then I got upset with Gurinder and thought, well that proves the path was causing my panic attacks. And yes, the panic attacks did stop when I “left” the path. But a few things have hit me recently. One, that I never once felt afraid when I was in his presence. Just when I wasn’t. And two, I never could really leave. I’ve been stuck in limbo. It’s like you’re expected to make up your mind—either you follow the path or you don’t. But it’s just not that simple in my case. Without the master in my life, I’m not depressed or anxious (sad sometimes) but mostly I just don’t have any enthusiasm about life. I’d be perfectly content to just sleep for the rest of my life—sort of a peaceful alternative and a way to fade away if it weren’t for everyone around me yelling at me that I need to “live my life”. I’m still trying to make sense of things. I realize now that I’ll never be happy without him but I also don’t want the anxiety back in my life. I’m just trying understand. And it isn’t as simple as it should be. One day it will probably all make sense. Perhaps there’s a connection that I don’t understand. But I no longer feel the need to keep fighting it. I just have to work through the fear. And try to understand what’s causing it.

Dear Sonia,
The fear is inside us and also the love..
I think it comes to the survice when being in Dera.
In my case the talking about chaurasi in the way it’s done..,I can not stommic that.
I know that now..so no fear is needed..
The outer Master also touches and maybe the love one feels can not given a place..
I often felt even jalours..Maharaji told me that Masters are jalours too..
They want us to love Him(in a higher way,not physical) also

Thank you Tim,
I am going to get that The Secret Rose Garden book
Seems beautiful..

Hi s*
I understand. But it’s not about the physical. I mean it is but it isn’t. Actually, I think the more lifetimes one has had, the stronger their ego becomes. More lifetimes = a more stubborn mind??
Of course, when you’re in the physical presence, his power is strong enough to calm the fears but he doesn’t take your ego away completely… so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this https://youtu.be/Ow0lr63y4Mw
Actually, I think the longer one stays in these realms and has multiple lifetimes not returning home that the ego mind actually recognizes Sant Mat as its death. And I think that’s where the panic comes from. They say it’s an individual path, and unfortunately it truly is.

The ego mind would rather die in this life and live another life than to be extinguished. It’s like a parasite. Sometimes it’s smarter than its host and to use a medical analogy—has mutated to become immune to vaccination or medicine. But that all sounds very morbid. So, just go back to the Bob Hope clip because that was pretty funny and spot on.

Hi Sonia,
Maybe(sure) it’s not about the master but the Love inside of ourselves that is touched.
That is how I see it.
Not easy to describe especially not in a different language (for me)
So.. I love ”my”spiritual path..
The seeking for ”God”.. our real being,we are all from that source..
That in fact is what we are.
Masters touches that ,..that is why devoties love him but in fact it’s the inspiration and our own
love inside that brings us back..to our origine..
So I feel it .
But maybe everything is different then one can know /think from here..
Some people who has no believe or even longing for more then the physical have beautiful NDE soo..
what do we really know??
”Not knowing” is logical from here also..

Sonia: “so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this…”
Loved the video. Would be wonderful if Gurinder actually yelled out “Stop It”. He should watch the video he could learn a lot from it. Imagine people lining up to ask their same old boring questions and he yells at them Just Stop It !!

Sonia funny clip. One difference is that the master gives us the prescription to solve the issues. He doesn’t just tell us to stop it. If we take the medicine the way he has prescribed it does all stop. (Maybe lessen at first then eventually stops) Believe me it does.

I think I’m beginning to understand the purpose of a living Master.
I didn’t think it was necessary for quite some time. But your own mind can’t conquer an ego that has had lifetimes to strengthen itself.
But you can’t conquer the ego with anything that makes it feel threatened. Understanding that is so critical. The ego serves two purposes—fear and attack. If you were born a natural fighter… you’ll have to somehow use that in a way to overcome the power your ego has over you. When you attack someone it just makes their ego stronger… if they already have a strong ego.
I never thought I had a strong ego because all the things in this world that we typically associate with the ego—power, fame, money—just don’t appeal to me. But there’s a lot I just didn’t understand… about myself and about controlling the mind.

Sonia: “so Q&A with Gurinder usually goes something like this…”
Loved the video. Would be wonderful if Gurinder actually yelled out “Stop It”. He should watch the video he could learn a lot from it. Imagine people lining up to ask their same old boring questions and he yells at them Just Stop It !!
Posted by: Jen | February 18, 2020 at 04:07 PM
I’m sure he’s seen it. Maybe that’s why he adopted the “just do it” philosophy. 😆
My husband taught me a love of nature. That’s one thing I’ve learned from him. The South African landscape is so beautiful as I’m sure you remember. 😉
I remember as a child visiting my grandparents who had such a love of nature and spent so much time cultivating their vegetable gardens and flower gardens. They took such care in selecting every rose bush that lined their long driveway and every tree they planted on their lawn. Every time I visited them they would take me on a tour of their property to tell me about each species of plant and they’d just marvel at it. I was a teenager and all I can remember thinking was heaven was so much more beautiful. I don’t know where that came from but I was somewhat disappointed with this world from an early age. However, now I really appreciate it—I’ve learned to appreciate it thanks to my husband—just seeing this world through his eyes. But I still hate bugs. 😝

On another subject altogether—the other word that breaks the i before rule—Caffeine.
Caffeine is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant of the methylxanthine class. It is the world’s most widely consumed psychoactive drug. Unlike many other psychoactive substances, it is legal and unregulated in nearly all parts of the world.
I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they should… well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for some than others.
A therapist once told me that all of her bipolar patients said caffeine was their drug of choice even above alcohol. I just found that really bizarre. And she is a very highly respected LCP in her specialized field.
Anyway, curious what others think about this legal drug…

Sonia funny clip. One difference is that the master gives us the prescription to solve the issues. He doesn’t just tell us to stop it. If we take the medicine the way he has prescribed it does all stop. (Maybe lessen at first then eventually stops) Believe me it does.
Posted by: Jen from Austin Texas | February 18, 2020 at 05:06 PM
Hope so.
How long have you been a Satsangi? Were you initiated by Charan or Gurinder?

OK, I brought up the caffeine thing because I drink way too much coffee in the winter time and it messes with my sleep cycle. I can’t sleep so I’m going to finish my book, ‘Atomic Habits’ that I just started.
Hopefully I’ll be able to fall asleep after that. 🙄

Actually, I think the longer one stays in these realms and has multiple lifetimes not returning home that the ego mind actually recognizes Sant Mat as its death. And I think that’s where the panic comes from. They say it’s an individual path, and unfortunately it truly is.
Posted by: Sonia | February 18, 2020 at 09:36 AM
Wasn’t it you who a few days back distinguished between mind and ego? So now what is this ego mind?
Does mind ever die? If yes when and how does it occur? Can any come confirm his mind is dead?
I don’t suffer from any panic attacks. Many many followers of santmat I know don’t suffer from panic too. Is their and my ego mind dead then as a result of santmat?

his power is strong enough to calm the fears but he doesn’t take your ego away completely…
Posted by: Sonia | February 18, 2020 at 09:36 AM
Not his job to take away your ego. Rather it’s for you to give it up. Surrender you have to voluntarily.

Steve,
I have to be really careful not to put Gurinder in the same category as people like you. People with very little empathy or understanding. You give Sant Mat a bad name.

Steve,
I don’t think GSD would approve of your self righteous insensitivity. That’s one thing I’m learning—Satsangis don’t always reflect the love of their master.

I’m going through a “process” right now. Something I believe GSD understands and is compassionate towards. So, don’t judge me.

Steve,
I’ve made a conscious decision to take my ego out of things and try to see things for what they truly are. I believe that GSD is far more loving and compassionate than I realized. And I’m not going to let people like you disturb that belief.

Hi Steve
You write
“Not his job to take away your ego. Rather it’s for you to give it up. Surrender you have to voluntarily.”
I don’t Think we can do it alone. I think the True Saint helps you, gives you the strength. So the lines are not as cleanly drawn. We certainly have our job. But we need help there.
Everyone is attached to things, people. We have our addictions to food, each other, disfunction. Some are addicted to acquiring land and playing the stock market. We have to surrender all that. The true Saint has no addictions. they live simply. They are present and available. That’s what purity does. It makes us present, available, with a depth of resource to help and to give.

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don’t encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.

About what we observe in so called Saints…
It was Carl Jung who said it first: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”.
Everyone is our mirror. Our own reflection in others shows us not only who we are, but also how to be better.

Hi Steve
You asked
“Does mind ever die? If yes when and how does it occur? Can any come confirm his mind is dead?”
You can reduce anxiety provoking thoughts, you can learn to turn down the awareness of all that. And then the brain will help by switching them off completely from consciousness. And then the consciousness becomes like a still Lake. You are there setting it and now setting through it. And so much is there!
All that happens after thoughts cease. When thoughts cease, awareness really takes off. And such waves if freedom and love!
That’s practice and discipline. Largely physiological, but you can control it with mental practice, meditation.

Oops typo, should read
“You are there seeing it and now seeing through it. And so much is there!”

About what we observe in so called Saints…
It was Carl Jung who said it first: “Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”.
Everyone is our mirror. Our own reflection in others shows us not only who we are, but also how to be better.
Posted by: Jen | February 19, 2020 at 05:17 PM
Very true indeed…

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don’t encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 19, 2020 at 04:06 PM
Also, very true. And it’s up to us to be willing to accept their help.

@ I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they
@ should… well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for
@ some than others
Ah, so that was the secret of Maharaji’s energy. He always
seemed to be having a cup of coffee… or perhaps it was a
reminder there’s hope for all addicts.

@ I’m curious as to why RSSB hasn’t banned this drug. I’m not saying they
@ should… well, not necessarily but it is incredibly powerful. More for for
@ some than others
Ah, so that was the secret of Maharaji’s energy. He always
seemed to be having a cup of coffee… or perhaps it was a
reminder there’s hope for all addicts.
Posted by: Dungeness | February 19, 2020 at 10:46 PM
🤣

Sonia I was initiated by Babaji many many years ago. By the way, I’m the same age as you are… 47 yrs

The True Saints have no preoccupations. And they don’t encumber you with any. They lighten your burden, not increase it.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | February 19, 2020 at 04:06 PM
How do they lighten our burden btw? Isn’t our karmas (load) for us to bear with true saints having nothing to do with taking over them

Hey s* and Sonia!!
Thanks for watching the video and your comments, that’s very kind of you both 😊
Take care, manjit

Hi X17
You asked
“How do they lighten our burden btw? Isn’t our karmas (load) for us to bear with true saints having nothing to do with taking over them
No one experiences their Karma in a vacuum. They are interconnected. The true Saint is above all that. When they take some small pinch of fabric between their fingers and lift, the cloth all around rises to. It’s inspiration that does this. And many people can inspire. They lighten your burden.