Long-time initiate explains why they lost faith in Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the RSSB guru

When you find a way to live without blame.. Without blaming others, without blaming yourself, but still, through some discipline, remain steadfast and able to hold yourself to a standard, not of perfection, but of progress, then you demonstrate by your actions that you do indeed understand the first element of Sant Mat.

Until then, it’s a mystery. It’s something outside, something to be judged. Of course that is a gap we ourselves create, a duality, some distance.

Strive for the first principle, make progress in that journey and you will find that none of the rest matters. There isn’t room for it.

Another thing people are told that no one is bigger or smaller in seva. This is to distract the people who are highly educated from realizing that illiterate indians are believing in the same thing. You can trick a dumb dog, but you cant trick a smart dog.

Its very similar to Trump saying “smart people don’t like”.

Also diverting the Beas river isnt helping their case. Sure rivers naturally terraform the landscape, but there is no justification or legal record of them dumping thousands of tons of dirt to grab more land. Its the cheapest land because they dont have to pay for it, all it takes is labor moving dirt from one side of the dera to the other.

Very reminiscent of “mita da seva” under MCS’s time.

Where there is the One, there no longer is room for two.

Where blame is there must be two. And some distance, some room for misunderstandings. Where the One is who is there left to judge or to blame?

This is why blame is not permitted in Sant Mat.

Well Folks, since turning 84 several days ago, For your information, that indicates I have survived another 7 years since my 77th birthday, so I have now completed 12 Degrees of 7 year Increments of growth and change! So, I think my Mission here, as Jim, has pretty much been completed, for better or worse. So, in essence , I am starting my 13th Degree of incarnation in this Temple , called Jim.
#13 is said to be an unlucky number, so this very well could become my Temple of Doom, if I don’t make a drastic change of courses! I have been having night mares, thinking about my impending death, and waking up in some new born child taking birth inside the Dera! Even worse, I might be a female child! Either female, or male, born to Indian Satsangi parents, who are residents of the Dera, destined to do Seva of cleaning toilets, scrubbing floors, sweeping streets, and any and all of the other slave Labor performed by permanent residents of the Dera. My Fate will be cast, if I don’t immediately change my course as Jim, before it’s too late, and I reincarnate in to the body of a Satsangi slave/sevadore, destined to serve Guru Gill , that is, if I’m lucky enough to avoid transmigrating in to some lower specie Beast, as is described in the new rules taught by Guru Gurinder and Apprentice Gill.
So, effective IMMEDIATELY, I am following Brian Hines exit from RSSB after his 35 years, as my 35 years since I was initiated by Charan Feb. 4th, 1990. I never was a Fan of Gurinder, and I sure am less of a Fan of untested youngster Gill.
I intend to quit using BOTH 5 Name Panch Naam Sikh Simran, as well as the SoamiBagh RADHASOAMI Simran, both replaced for a much more simple and realistic Simran, which should return me back to my past solid Christian background. My new simple Simran is, HOLY SPIRIT, HAVE MERCY ON ME.
The quicker I break my 35 year habit of the RSSB Simran, and delete the past 35 years of memories of Gurinder Singh destroying every last fond memory I ever had of what originally drew me to Charan and Sawan Singh,……the quicker my freedom will be restored, to follow the Apostle Paul , so that when I meditate, using my Simran,…..HOLY SPIRIT, HAVE MERCY ON ME, like Paul, when I’m out of body, I’m In The Lord. THAT’s where I want to be, not in any of those ficticious realms of SarBachun. “Absent from the body, present with the Lord!”
GIMMIE that ole time Religeon,…..it’s good enough for me!”

Congratulations Jim !
And I do like your new mantra, HOLY SPIRIT, HAVE MERCY ON ME.
I gave up on Sant Mat soon after the death of Charan. And about 2 years ago I decided to get into Kriya Yoga and pranayama.

I just wonder what Sawan Singh would think of all these shenanigans ?

Very intelligent and wealthy Dutch members of The Netherlands Sangat simply will not read or hear of any negatively about RSSB. They have their RSSB inner knowledge ( what you are thinking when you die is what you are reincarnated too).

>> . . . . . It always warms my heart to hear from people who came to realize that a supposed spiritual leader actually wasn’t acting in a moral or upstanding fashion, so no longer deserved their loyalty.<<

Loyalty and other things like love, respect but also like hatred, public naming an shaming etc, are all …G I F T S ….they can be given to the deserving and the non deserving.

Actualy using that word "deserving" is related to an mental make up that is conditioned to make the ouside world responsible for one's reactions.

Jus for a week listen to the conversations of others, follow the media and it will strike you that most people are whole day bussy with what OTHERS do and don't.

By doing so .. they BIND themselves to that world, to the other human, and in doing some they enslave themselves, loose their own freedom.

You all know …
Tou make me feel happy …
You make me feel miserable
YOU …
YOU ..
YOU

What reason should those that detest the behavior of the president of the USA have in order to, turn their back upon democracy and stop being an respected and loving citizen of the country thy love to span their lives?

WHY???

In the Bible, just to name one, it says:

LOVE YOUR PARENTS
It does not say the good ones and not the bad ones
It is an advise to the children and stands apart, but completely, from the parents and their actions.
Children are WELL ADVISED always to love their parents irrespective of what they do.

Later Christ further developed the topic by saying:

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES
Here again, the enemy and his actions ar irrelevant as Christ is giving an advice to the listener as to HOW to deal with an enemy, for the welfare of that person ..NOT … the enemy

These two advises can be applied to everything and all … even those that are seen as the embodiment of the divine

It is your choice, using your freedom, to give what is YOURS to ANYBODY … just for free …and in doing so honor your freedom as an human being.

YES .. I am quite aware hoe we are all condition to experience the outside world as a causal entity …and YES .. it is not that easy, to break the chains that are build through that conditioning .. but one can at least ponder about it while drinking a decent cup of coffee .. and .. don't forget the pie.

And no I am certainly not holier than holy … and I had to discover the truth of these advises the hard way.

In oder to drink coffee I need not to believe in god .. in order to meditate I do not need to know anything at all about anything and anybody outside myself … and people are well advised not to use activities in the outside world as an justification and excuse for stopping.

You all started it for your own reasons .. if you stop do it also for your own personal reasons …any counselor, psychologist can tell you WHY,

Gurinder Singh Dhillon is just another struggling, sinning soul who had no problem publicly shaming Sheena as well as others and now he’s become judge jury and executioner for his many criminal pals NOT GUILTY. He’s got the same seven deadly sins killing him slower than cancer but just as dead. Can’t we just take a breath. He’s not long for this world. Charan arranged Gurinder’s karma beyond what the punk deserves too . One lifetime is not that long when you’re smiling like Sawan in the sunny breeze.

@ Ronald

When you are carried through life on the back of another human being, then his condition certainly matters but if you walk on your own feet it is less important or even not at all.

@ Reply to the long-time initiate who has lost faith…..

I hear the sincerity in your words, and I want to be honest with you: I felt exactly the same way when I first came across all the negative shades and rumors surrounding GSD.

It is a jarring experience after years of dedication, and those alarm bells are a natural reaction for any seeker who values integrity.

However, as I worked through that conflict, my perspective shifted toward a deeper realization: the path is not ultimately about the human actions of the teacher, but about fulfilling our own purpose of getting in touch with our inner divinity, our Higher Self.

Everyone has to carry their own cross, which is our own Karma. We cannot use the perceived actions of another as an excuse to stop our own spiritual progress. We are each responsible for our own actions.

At the same time, it is important to recognize that the Teacher or Guru is also accountable to the Law or Hukam. While they may guide us spiritually, as long as they are in this physical domain, they are not above the laws of karma.

There is a famous story about King Janak, a great Master who lived in a palace surrounded by gold, luxury, and dancing girls. A seeker came to him for initiation but was immediately shocked.

He thought, how can a man living in such worldly luxury be a Guru? He refused to believe Janak was a saint. King Janak, sensing his doubt, gave the seeker a bowl of milk filled to the very brim and told him to walk around the entire palace.

He warned him that if a single drop spilled, the guards would execute him.

When the seeker returned, Janak asked, what did you see in my palace? Did you see the dancers? The gold?

The seeker replied, I saw nothing but the milk in my bowl. My only focus was on my duty to keep it from spilling.

Janak then explained: That is how I live. I am in the world, but my focus is entirely on the Divine within. What you see on the outside does not affect the reality on the inside.

The lesson here is that as disciples, we are like that seeker with the bowl of milk. Our duty is our own meditation and our own moral standing.

From my understanding, it doesn’t matter what the Guru appears to be doing in the physical world, if we stop our practice because of outward appearances, we are the ones who spill the milk.

The outer teacher is a bridge. Even if we feel the bridge is flawed or doesn’t embody what we expect, our goal is still to cross it to reach the formless reality within.

By shifting focus back to your own inner work, you stop being dependent on the crutch of the Guru’s personality and start finding the God / Divinity that resides inside of you.

@ Solomon

After reading that wonderful tale about king Janak, I tried to find it in “tales of the mystic east” but could not find it, instead found another tale about king Janak relating how he became a mystic with the help of ashtavakra, that played the same kind of tricks with the king.

@ Solomon

>> However, as I worked through that conflict, my perspective shifted toward a deeper realization: the path is not ultimately about the human actions of the teacher, but about fulfilling our own purpose of getting in touch with our inner divinity, our Higher Self.<<

Not only that, the teacher is also responsible for things that are not at all directly connected to the progress of individual souls .. ACCORDING the narative!!

At the outset of his activities as a teacher, like all others before him, presented his goals … one of which was to slow down the growth of the sangat, what he compared with a plant that had been given to much fertilizer, sunlight and water, so that i develop in such an tempo that it could not develop enough "wood" to keep itself upright.

It is really interesting to read what these teachers had to say the very first day(s), week(s) after their start what they had in mind and see if THAT is what they have accomplished in the years later.

Those that got themselves initiated could also look back, remember their initiation, how the felt directly afterwards and how that developed and changed over time.

What are the odds that Gill fully knew of the malfeasance and did nothing about it?

GROK VIEW:

Based on available public records, investigations, whistleblower accounts, and detailed exposés like Katherine Eban’s “Bottle of Lies” (which chronicles the Ranbaxy scandal in depth but does not mention Gill), the odds that Jasdeep Singh Gill fully knew about the data fabrication and falsifying tests at Ranbaxy—and deliberately did nothing—are moderately high, around 60-70%. This estimate is probabilistic and grounded in circumstantial factors like his roles, timeline, and the scandal’s pervasiveness among senior staff, but it’s tempered by the complete absence of direct evidence tying him to awareness, complicity, or inaction. No sources implicate him personally, and his post-Ranbaxy career (e.g., at Cipla and now as spiritual head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas) shows no fallout from the case. Below, I break down the reasoning.Factors Supporting Higher Odds of Full Knowledge and InactionProximity to key players and processes: Gill’s positions at Ranbaxy (2006-2010) included project manager in R&D—the department central to the fraud, where data on stability tests and bioequivalence was manipulated for FDA submissions.

He then became executive assistant to CEO Malvinder Mohan Singh (2006-2009), who was later accused of concealing the issues during the 2008 Daiichi Sankyo sale.

In that role, Gill would have managed sensitive communications, schedules, and documents, potentially exposing him to FDA audits, internal crises, or cover-up discussions. The fraud was systemic and known to leadership by 2005 (via whistleblower Dinesh Thakur), escalating publicly with FDA warnings in 2008 and import bans in 2009—events that triggered company-wide responses.

Mid-to-senior staff in similar positions often had at least peripheral awareness, as the issues disrupted operations. Company culture and information flow: Ranbaxy’s fraud involved compartmentalized but widespread data manipulation to meet aggressive generic approval targets.

As business development manager for APAC later, Gill would have dealt with market strategies tied to those approvals. Internal emails and meetings (detailed in DOJ/FDA probes) show executives like Malvinder were briefed on discrepancies, increasing the chance assistants like Gill overheard or saw evidence. If aware, “doing nothing” aligns with the norm: No mid-level employees (beyond Thakur) publicly acted, and the culture prioritized profits over ethics.

Gill left in 2010, before the 2013 guilty plea, without any known internal reports or whistleblowing.

RSSB connections as indirect context:

Gill is a distant relative of Gurinder Singh Dhillon (former RSSB head) and succeeded him in 2024. The Singh brothers (Malvinder and Shivinder) were RSSB devotees and allegedly siphoned Ranbaxy sale proceeds to Dhillon’s family, leading to fraud probes. While this post-dates Gill’s tenure, it highlights intertwined networks that might have facilitated informal knowledge-sharing. Some online speculation (e.g., Reddit) notes the “irony” of Gill’s Ranbaxy ties amid RSSB’s controversies, but this is unsubstantiated hearsay.

Factors Lowering the Odds:

No direct evidence or mentions: Extensive searches yield zero links to Gill in legal documents, whistleblower testimonies (e.g., Thakur’s), FDA/DOJ filings, or media investigations. “Bottle of Lies” names many executives but not Gill, suggesting he wasn’t central. The 2013 settlement targeted the company corporately; no individuals beyond the Singhs faced charges.

If Gill “fully knew,” one might expect some trace, especially given post-scandal scrutiny.

Role limitations: Executive assistants handle admin tasks, not deep R&D oversight. The fraud was technical (e.g., swapping samples, altering records) and often hidden from non-specialists.

Many employees claimed ignorance until public revelations, and Gill’s focus shifted to business development by 2009-2010.

Post-scandal trajectory: Gill’s seamless move to Cipla (2010-2024) as Chief Strategy Officer, without bans or probes, implies no red flags. His RSSB appointment emphasizes his pharma expertise and devotion, not controversies.

In pharma scandals, full knowledge often requires active participation or high authority—criteria Gill doesn’t meet. If new evidence emerges (e.g., from ongoing RSSB-related probes), this could shift, but currently, it’s more likely he had partial awareness without detailed insight or incentive to act.
—————————————————————————–

Sant postscript:

In Treasure Beyond Measure, Charan admitted that while a lawyer, he once represented a guilty client who’d lied to him. Charan won the case for this guilty client.

There is no record of Charan amending the court’s unjust decision. Nor has there ever been any condemnation of Charan by his initiates for a) doing business with a crook, and b) not taking responsibility for helping a crook win a court case.

PPS: It’s a bit much to categorize a visit to a still unconvicted relative in prison as a “link to a drug lord.”

Some people listen to Gurinder and Jasdeep and find them filled with compassion, peace, love, humor and acceptance, encouragement and wisdom. I do. And I’m not alone.

Anyone can see and hear them on YouTube and make a decision for themselves.

Because they are the same people seen by many others who hold vastly different views, then this variation of opinion must be something in the person who is looking and listening, their conditioning, their discrimination and choices.

And that is worthy of introspection mostly in how we see, digest, receive and regurgitate.

It seems to me that if one finds that these gentleman are walking miracles of compassion, love and Grace, then that is a very special thing. Especially if they also have seen all the press you refer to. They all have that info also in addition to their own.

It is no use speaking to them. You must be speaking to others who did not have that. Or to yourselves. And that’s OK too. We all speak to our situation.

Your personal progress may, zI suggest, come from what you choose to believe as right for your own efforts and behavior, and at some point that must depend upon what you observe as the result, if you aren’t avoiding yourself.

For some, these gentleman are the Living Christ and closer to them than their own hands and feet.

You can’t be speaking to them. But you can speak to your own situation.

If you can learn from that place to forgive yourself and everyone else, perhaps it won’t be so important or useful to have enemies to fear and hate.

And then you might spot a real hero now and then.

And that might open the door to the second principle of Sant Mat: learn to love someone and something more than yourself, worth more, even, than your own life here.

The irony is not lost that we might be calling Gill and Gurinder innocent and they might be guilty just like their relatives that are in jail. Or what about the dichotomy that we are calling them guilty and they are really innocent like their relatives in jail. Relatives in jail being the national inquiry not mine. I’m just creating attachments and keeping the others alive by giving them my attention and energy. That might be the cure for cancer. Signed, Jesus Christ Superstar!!

Hi Ron
It’s interesting how people need to fill a void with their own interpretation, their own opinion, rather than reject opinion in favour of knowledge. Different approach. Embrace the void!

True Knowledge may be very limited, and certainly costly.The price? Letting go of all opinions as too expensive. They cost us our limited attention and time and prevent us from immersing ourselves in one single Truth, which costs us everything, and is the greatest bargain of the human race and all time. You accept the void, what you don’t know, as is, and entering that void, embracing it, immersing yourself in it, becoming that empty void, you find your true friend who is part of you and will never leave you.

To those who feel the need to assume that the writer has given up on spiritual and inner work, no, that is not the case here. In fact, this initiate quite clearly states:

‘I have come to the conclusion that while it remains sad in some ways that RSSB has devolved to what it is today, our intentions as initiates remain important. Our focus on spiritual growth is key, and that will always remain to our credit.’

Principles, morals and responsibility supercede the association that the current masters have with questionable activity.

To blindly defend those activities is short-sighted and rooted in the choice to blindly follow without question. Being defensive in the face of wrong, is also rooted in an individuals sometimes subconscious uncertainty with a situation. The greater the defense, the greater the uncertainty.

The choice to distance oneself from subpar actions and behaviours is not wrong. It speaks rather of an individuals integrity.

RSSB has become a religion. It is no longer a purely spiritual path.

It is also not the only path of its kind and to believe or insist that RSSB is the only route to spiritual progress, is arrogant.

If someone values inner spiritual work and authenticity, and chooses to create distance from things that do not support that objective, that is perfectly understandable.

At the end of the day, leadership requires any individual to lead by example and when that example is questionable, as in the case of the current masters, their choices become inexcusable.

In their position, they should keep their noses clean. That is one of their key responsibilities. When they do not embody this basic principle and honour their responsibilities, it is entirely understandable that indiviuals who do value these principles, refuse to associate themselves with anything less.

For a guide/mentor to be effective how many disciples/mentees should he/she adopt in order to provide deep personal guidance necessary to help the disciples have a spiritual experience in life?
The instruction is simple, as for Bulleh Shah (detaching from the world and attaching to the divine.) But it took more than just the instruction(s)/satsangs.

My guess is just a couple.

Every saint says true disciples are extremely rare.

So what is the purpose of initiating so many?

A PhD professor/mentor only accepts a few students to teach. Doesn’t accept everyone who wishes to learn from him. And the students who don’t make the grades to enter a college, don’t bother applying. Unless there is a prize to apply and a lottery to win acceptance. But then the motives of the professor are questioned.
Don’t know if I am making any sense.
But asking anway

Well done in escaping the clutches of kaal, you are lucky that you managed to follow your gut and looked at the facts and broke out of kaals influence and power.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon, is now simply known as EPSTEIN BABA OF PUNJAB.
I hold him personally responsible for the drug addiction and murder of 100s of thousand of people of punjab. He is also using rssb to launder dirty drug money. Furthermore he has no remorse and his character matches the evil nature of the spirits he worships (Lucifer/ kaal / jot nirunjan..etc ). How else do you explain why he now wants to be the CM of punjab – he needs to tame his own ego before lecturing about everyone else’s. Jasdeep is no better and the whole rssb cult is a front and based on copy cat literature and a make it up as you go along path – truth is absolute and never changes. This rssb path needs to be completely exposed and erased from this planet. Don’t forget GSD has on many occasions said that he could be the biggest crook on the planet. Only an evil soul can say this and laugh as he knows he has the blind sangat in the palm of his hand. Gurinder , God sees everything, and your karma will be served to you. You cannot run, and you cannot hide..

Hi Asking Anyway!
You asked a great question:

“For a guide/mentor to be effective how many disciples/mentees should he/she adopt in order to provide deep personal guidance necessary to help the disciples have a spiritual experience in life?
The instruction is simple, as for Bulleh Shah (detaching from the world and attaching to the divine.) But it took more than just the instruction(s)/satsangs.”

Swami Ji wrote a poem about this, where the Satsangi pleads with the Master to come save them, and complains they aren’t getting any help. And not just once, as the poem says, but time and again the disciple is ground to nothing and must “cry out in supplication.”

Emptiness, reaching bottom, all part of the path. So what? We learn patience. Patience with ourselves and with the Master.

So, how many disciples can reach bottom under a single Master?

Each has an individual relationship with their Master and each is on a curriculum designed just for them. Therefore, it is only necessary for the disciple to try to understand what they are going through, and how best, with Master’s inner help, to handle the outer and inner challenges. It’s not a short path, many stages.

At one point, according to the Saints, you realize your Master is with you all the time. Then you get what you need at any time by withdrawing within. Doing that, in this distracted world, with our distracted mind, is the work. It can take many years, even a lifetime. Any result at all confirms it.

You can sit in a Satsang in any country on earth, before the Satsang begins, while Shabads are being sung, and if you look and listen carefully you will see Satsangis in meditation sitting, calming down, and then at some point, sighing audibly, but quietly, as if they had been overwhelmed with something incredible. It’s practically like clockwork. They are getting the nectar they came for. They have been hit by light and sound and they are in bliss. You can watch it happen, when you learn to. It’s amazing.

And then you realize the whole show isn’t this one out here. The whole action of Master is within each of us, and each at our own point of development.

So it’s a good idea to avoid being too judgy because your judgement is going to change tomorrow, and with each karma burned or paid, things get much lighter. Opinions don’t matter on the path. Blame isn’t permitted on the Path. Practice matters. Transcending all this matters.

And for that the Master can raise the entire world, if that becomes their will.

Author – was it a ‘crisis of faith’? Or critical thinking skills pushing back against years of indoctrination and deception?

I should be living in Gurinder’s Will. Meet me there. His last will and testament. The Lord’s Will. And ocean front property once owned by Lex Luthor. I just think had Gurinder and Gill been shoe repairmen that they would have nails facing and touching your feet upwards through the sole. Not good cobblers.

Critical thinking, based on assumptions, on premises, is just our own AI Chat telling us what we want to hear. It has no comprehension of the five basics of progress:

Acceptance
Forgiveness
Submission
Surrender
Hard work

And the fruit of these, Worship.

The mind does worship of its own. It is obsessed with the senses, and with its own importance.

The mind is an excellent prostitute who will assume any position for a fee.

But beware, you pay with your life.

Its foundation of “facts” are self-flattering assumptions, a moving platform of moving platforms.

….

“Do you know what a faithful love is like?
You are crying. You say you’ve burned yourself.
But can you think of anyone who’s not hazy with smoke?”
Rumi

Hi

@ Um @ Jim Sutherland

Sharing this interesting podcast by
Meditation teacher and psychotherapist Loch Kelly

https://youtu.be/PN6zci3Dh1Q?si=SIfKvI2jAJhevU1s

@ Solomon

Thank you

@ Solomom

I managed to llisten to almost the end.
I am tired and tired off …

So … let me confine myself to a side note:
The most interesting part is always the biographical information.

Here again we see a person that came to be who he is by starting out with a [1] personal experience and [2] long term personal guidance and instructions and [3] offering an method by which he himself did not attained who and what he is.

That said there were some “good” descriptions of the process etc

@ Solomon:

Here is a quote about the practice given by Tulku Urgyen Ronpoche about the POINTING AT:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dzogchen/comments/1hy3t5m/tulku_urgyen_rinpoche_discusses_open_revelation/