Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) now says the guru is just a guide, not a savior

Ach, ach … in earlier days the talk was all about the masters been “perfect” and even if he himself was stating, that he was not, he was acting as a human, having karma of his own, that the master was not what they could see, they would talk and laugh it away and slide his words under the carpet of “HUMILITY”

And now they do the opposite, making themselves and others believe he is not perfect.

Hahahaha …..

You see for coffee drinkers like myself, these are all simple things and of little importance as far as the walking is concerned.

One can start to take a path in life for one’s own reasons, for one’s own interests like learning a craft under the guidance of an teacher.

This is the reasoning:
The path .. IF IT EXISTS …. is a path of shifting awareness, consciousness in order to get access to perception of reality in an other way than through the senses as processed by te mind.

IF that exists, than the awareness, the consciousness needs and other vehicle than the senses and the mind and according the sages of different traditions one can chose between the light and the sound ….. as a means of transport.

Apart from if such a path exist or not, that path ..
CAN NOT BE CHANGED
..read it !!! …
it CAN NOT BE CHANGED

But the TALK can change …

and THAT is what happens!!!

In the old days, the western satsangis had their own understanding of the path and that understanding was kept alive by TALKERS with great IQ’s , command of language and charisma.

They all KNEW what sant mat, the path was all about, and THEY owned the talk and spread the word ..like the apostles of yore

AND .. they go on doing the same NOW… what has changed? Mysticism is no longer social trendy and they USE the character of the guru as an excuse ..they did it then they do it now

NOTHING has changed

The path has not changed, as it cannot if it exists
The talkers have not changed, as they cannot psychological
The talk has changed ..in accordance with the changes in society.

The master takes the responsibility to help us return to our eternal home.

The message started with:
>>The master takes the responsibility to help us return to our eternal home.<<

The question is …….!!!

WHO or what is:
– he master
– responsibility
– help
– return
– eternal home

Be honest .. nobody can outsource his own responsibility, the things for which they have put their signature under an contract, onto others, not even guru's not even god.

You have to do YOUR part to the exclusion of everything else ..IF .. you want to WALK the path ..they, the masters are not going to do it for you

Whatever you accomplished in your life you did it your self … going through the proces of an academici education was done by yourself ..nobody did study for you. Whatever you accomplished in society professional, was also done by your own effort etc and what you did noot all the instances were you failed it was because of yourself.

I do not know if that path exist in reality as it can only be known by walking it with love and devotion having faith that it can be done.

If it exists!

Please do consider that as everything that is found in science.

If it is there, it is just there, it cannot be changed but the understanding of it does change and with it the scientific papers, the talk and the understanding of the lay masses.

-gravity
-radiation

you name it.

This article hits a nerve because it points to something very serious: RSSB has spent decades selling one picture of the Guru, and is now quietly replacing it with another. And it’s not a small adjustment — it’s a complete reversal of the core contract people believed they were entering.

For years, RSSB literature and satsangs clearly promoted beliefs like:

the Guru is the perfect living master / Satguru

the Guru is “one with God”

the Guru takes responsibility for your karmas

the Guru reduces karmic burdens “to a pinprick”

the Guru will personally take you out of Kal’s domain and to Sach Khand

People didn’t dedicate their lives to RSSB just because it’s a “nice lifestyle” or “good meditation.” They did it because the Guru was presented as a supernatural savior, not merely a motivational coach.

Now the 2026 website update essentially says:

the Guru just helps you

the Guru is just a guide

the Guru is not responsible for your karmas

So which is it?

Because if the Guru is not responsible for karmas, and is not guaranteeing liberation, then the whole emotional and spiritual foundation many followers built their lives on has been quietly removed — while the organization still benefits from the devotion, obedience, donations, and lifelong commitment that those original promises created.

And here’s the most important point: even Wikipedia reflects the traditional RSSB claim, not the new downgraded one. Wikipedia states:

> “The Master… is said to link the disciple’s soul to the inner Sound Current… taking responsibility for guiding it on its journey homeward.”

So RSSB cannot pretend this is just “ex-initiates misunderstanding.” Even neutral public summaries of RSSB teachings describe the Guru as someone who provides an essential spiritual connection and takes responsibility for the disciple’s journey.

Which leads to an unavoidable question:

If a living Master must have “completed the spiritual journey,” then how did the last two Gurus qualify?

Because both Baba Gurinder Singh Dhillon and Hazur Jasdeep Singh Gill came from ordinary professional lives and were chosen through succession — not through any publicly demonstrated spiritual attainment. In practice, it looks far less like a “perfect saint” being recognized, and far more like a leadership role being handed down, like a family-controlled institution.

If RSSB now wants to claim the Guru is “just a guide,” then fine — but then the organization must also admit:

the old teachings were exaggerated or false

the old promises were manipulative

followers were encouraged to surrender their critical thinking based on claims that are now being withdrawn

Because you can’t have it both ways.

You can’t build a spiritual movement on the promise “I will personally take you to Sach Khand” and then later say “Actually you’re on your own — I just support you.”

That isn’t “spiritual maturity.”
That’s bait-and-switch religion.

And it’s especially cruel because RSSB followers are not casual participants. Many have sacrificed decades of their lives, their relationships, their hopes, and their fear of death has been managed through one central promise:

“The Guru will take you home.”

If that promise is now being redefined into something vague and non-committal, then people deserve honesty — not gaslighting, not blame, and not being dismissed as “negative” or “bad ex-initiates.”

Followers deserve the truth.
Not a rewritten doctrine after the fact.

@ Rinku

The whole question is .. WHO or WHAT is a guru!

and

Is there a difference in understanding of who and what is refered to when that word is used by the teacher or the student.

It was my understanding, when i was still associated with the path, that the average Sasangi, in particular, those from the west, had an complete different understanding of the word as the teachers them self.

Moreover, they did in Q&A sessions their best to force THEIR visions and understanding of the word upon him, they still do it and it continues here.

In old days it was all about PERFECT masters and now it is all about NOT SO PERFECT masters

It has nothing to do with any path it is all about psychology

@ RINKU

DESERVE ???

@ Rinku, / A.O

Let me state this clearly I am not in anyway defending what is of the teaching and the teacher! Let them do that themselves.

What I write is all about the psychology of the student, the consumer of what is put on the table by others, what he or she does with it, how he or she digests it.

Saint Shri Sarmatha Ramdas, has written in Marathi, the well known book “DASBODH” about everything related to the student, and to what makes him or her “deserving”.

the subtitle of the book is :
Spiritual Instruction for the servant.

In that book, easily available, translated into Hindi by several writers and also in English, one can find the whole “machinery” of ALL Indian traditions, both dual and non dual.

It speaks of two ways to walk any path, as a “bird” or as an “ant”

The path of the ant, is the slow path, it is the path of Bhakti, of devotion and meditation. The other path is that of the Ghyani, insight, surrender.

That book does not speek about instructions for the guru!

It is well worth to go through the book, to get an impression of what the fundament of Indian Spirituality is all about. [hese days it is also widely used by managers for worldly affairs]

Just going through the table of contents, will give an clear impression of what is all DEMANDED of the student…

Than there is that story, that parable of the worm and his quest for the golden apple hanging on a tree in a faraway land, how he failed, despite his giving all and everything he could, in finding that tree and climbing it and how he arrived at what HE longed for, by an eagle who felt sorry for him …BUT … [he himself had no interest in the quest, nor the golden apple].

In that last part of the tale, where the worm realised that he was not able to get to what he wanted, the worm was NOT released / discharged of his participation, doing is own part, in the help that was offered.

He had to cling to the eagle with all his power … one of the most beautiful psychological interesting parts of the tale, the discussion between the worm and the eagle ; each time being offered help and than refusing it.

The tale ends with a soft spoken part … the worm is warned, asked and begged … that if he during the flight with the eagle, loses his grip, the eagle will take him with his claws and than he should not moan and remain silent.

P.S.
It is the fate of all mystics that have ever visited this earth that their followers have forced them into the role of SAVIOR by making a religion out of their teachings

No mystic was ever interested in YOUR salvation, that is an idea that crept into your mind and you are responsabel for its solution

Eagles are not interested in apples that please worms.

That … is just my understanding of what was said and written .. that is the psychological truth ..if the taste of it doesn’t suit you …spit it out and have a cup of coffee.

@ Rinku

Before I set out for a walk to get it all out of my head:

NO saint, mystic etc will ever knock at YOUR door to ask YOU to be his beloved student!

It never happened, it does not happen and it will never.

I like Rinku’s observations, of which I agree. The present version of Sant Mat, god only knows what twisted version, is not the Version I was drawn to, when I was first introduced to Sant Mat when reading Dr. Julian Johnson’s book,…”The Path of The Masters,” I was feeling like I must have written that book , as it was so familiar to me! And I had already gone through very similar teachings, as Johnson, including Christianity, Theosophy, Rosicrucians, and all the others Johnson mentioned. But what really drew me, is how Julian Johnson described The Great Master, i.e., Sawan Singh, in that book, as well as his book,…”With The Master in India.” As I read those books, I would also have recognised Sawan Singh, as Jesus Christ, The Living Master of his, Julian’s time. After reading those books, I was feeling really depressed, of missing my opportunity to have been initiated by Sawan Singh, the True Living Master of the Time, seen through Julian Johnson’s eyes. I was depressed for haven been born just a little too late to be gifted my Ticket to board the Train, The Sach Khand Express to Anami Purush, Heavenly Glory, to abide in Bliss for Eternity, with my Creator,
Well, I did miss that Train, but grabbed on to the Caboose of the Amtrak Train powered by Sawan Singh’s Grand Son, Charan Singh, only , who initiated me only 4 months before he died.
So, at the very least, I accepted that I was barely saved, as this Marked soul, no longer destined to ever have to be reincarnated in to any lower species other than humans, and to be completely liberated in a max of 4 human lives.
And now? The revised Gurinder/Jasdeep version of Sant Mat identified by Rinku, as well as by MANY others to horrified to come out of hiding and admit it, is because they are afraid Gurinder will fly away in his Jet while giving his initiates his middle finger on the way to retrieve the cash stashed away donated by all the Suckers , and he won’t leave Mr. Gill even enough money to keep enough spagetti and tomato sauce, in the Hostal 6 Western dining hall to keep wealthy Westeners coming back to their yearly Dera visits, to keep the Donation boxes full of enough money to be able to keep spending Gurinder to buy more properties he can visit with his Jets and helicopters .
‘The Old Grey Mare Ain’t What She Used to be,” …many long years ago, ….and neither are the old grey gurus!

@# Mr Sutherland

Have some coffee and think how the world has changed since those days you asked for initiation, not to speek of your earlier days as a young boy.

You yourselv are an expert in theology, you know the bible much better probably than anyone else here.

What is written there and made Jezus to have said?!

That ..IF, you want the masses to hear upon you, THAN you have to adress them in THEIR language.

Already before the aedvent of MGS is was clear to me and often an topic of conversation with my late dear Friend, about how over time the teachings were reformed, and with te teaching the behavior of the teachers ..as a metaphor we used to compare it with the turning inside out from a sleeve.

MJS wil do it different and those that come after him too and all will have to adapt to the spirit of the time..WITHOUT changing the teachings .. as that is impossible.

MCS used to say that if there is a god, he can inly be found inside man and all humans being the same the path leading to god can only be the same.

The way towards that path the way to walk on the path [ some on ther hands, others rolling or backwards etc ore like a crow] might be different but inside the carrier is just light and sound.

San mat is as simple as it van be, even coffee drinkers can understand it.

And .. if one is not called, why bother?
All are free to have themselves baptised
All are free to ask for initiation,

All can solve their peronal problems if the stop looking, at OTHERS and make THEM resposible. ..be they guru or God.

It was cold, cold outside.

And MR. Sutherland.

Maybe you have still “Light in sant mat” lating around somewhere. It was issued in 1958 … in the beginning of his tenure.

If you, or any other reader , pays close attention to the language use, you will find taht MANY statements about reincarnation, the amount of births and more of these “hot” toipics, are expessed in ways he did not if at all at the end of his tenure..

You see he made such clear statements that these cannot be changed. What is possible is to cover them up, hide them linguistic from view .. in order not to scare people or other motivation.

I dear to write it in such an way as I remember the late MCS as anything but an “sweet” uncle nor grandfather. His followers wanted to make him seen that way but if you carefully listen to what he says and take his words simple for what he said, to your surprise, you will find that his follower never used those expressions and was much “softer” as he draws the attention of the listener away from the “DUTIES” of a master with relation to the contract. of initiation.

Any way .. those of the latest generations are born with a golden spoon and like to be fed with lind words and leave everything to their “parents” to look after

It is all a matter of Psychology.

My personal psychology about the path was that I was not worthy enough for such an esteemed pure path so I put off initiation for as long as possible. There was no way I could meditate two and a half hours a day and no way for many years that I could quit doing the drugs. But it all fell into place and I’ve got no complaints and other wise the first things I heard Gurinder say were better than nothing, barely. But he said up front He might be a fake and that there’s other paths that lead to enlightenment , sant mat wasn’t the only one, but like I said I never wanted to be too enlightened anyway because I’m not worthy. I never had to sign any legal documents or papers like they make you do in India it sounds like. Maybe America needs our own guru from satmat. I’ve had Indians tell me that.

@ Ronald

>> …. he said up front He might be a fake and that there’s other paths that lead to enlightenment , sant mat wasn’t the only one, <<

He did not make a statement about any teaching or path, ..NOT AT ALL … in his answer he was addressing the audience and THEIR doubts, etc ….

He was well trained by his uncle … they never made statements about his status … hahaha … none.

YES people have always tried to FORCE them to make these statements about themselves and other humans in the same position as they were or are. ..the "hide" behind the traditional and accepted figures of yore, which nobody can ask a question and are not questioned .

Apart from the qualification of yourself you finally found your way so everything is as it should be.

Um I guess you weren’t there in Houston when he said all that.

@ Ronald

No, that far and that long I cannot swim.

Let me use this opportunity that my interaction with the l;ate MCS was foremost on the human level.
I was intrigued by what he said about the workings of the human mind and there are no words to express my appreciation for that.

Yes .. I do understand that he was acting out another role but that is what I did with it .. shame on me … hahaha…. so I was never in those talks about who is a master and who not, who is perfect and who not

With that attitude I also listened to his succesor and that finds its way here.

@ Ronald

It is my understanding that he was chosen to destroy the expectations from the followers and undermine the “teaching” they had created for themselves so suit their own tastes .. and I was quite successful but not perfect.

If you want to understand the credo of any tenure of any saimnt, listen carefully what they have to say in the very beginning.

He compared in the beginning the growth and development of the Sangat with a plant that was given to much light, water etc, so much so that it cannot develop[ enough wood quick and strong enough to keep itself upright.

THAT is the reason that he had the spotlights directed no longer on the master let alone PERFECT but on the DUTIES of the pactioner,

In doing so, it seems to me he succeeded ..you see .. it is not his dutie to pleas you or anybody else … he has a complete other role to keep an teaching alive in a changing world.

With regard to MCS it was understandable that people would speek of “MY” master a person that SEEMED to be there for THEM , to THEIR greater glory, but that cannor be said of his Nephew.

That is how I see it.

And .. I have not a soft and kind heart so I can nobody follow here in his or her frustration, and expressions of anger, grief etc let alone the hate speech

To all I say have a break, and have some coffee ..

MGS is not your problem, nor what he does in the world, ..you are your own problem and nobody is going to solve it for you ..no matter what happens to him, no matter what language you use.

And If you do not believe me ask any psychiatrist, psychologist or counselor. that is worth his wages of 200 Dollar an hour.

Wow talk repeating an old misunderstanding ad nauseum! But isn’t that what happens in school, teaching the same lessons semester after semester?

All true Saints have taught that we must go through our Karmas. Jesus said that not even a single comma of law can be changed. All must be fulfilled.

Master helps us to go through our fate in three ways. First, through meditation we are strengthened and so the effect of the karma upon us is much less. We have a peace built from devotion that makes every issue of this world tiny by comparison.

Second, the Master rearranges our Karma, like a great financial planner arranging our debts and investments, so we can get through them with minimum impact. They aren’t erased, but they are being managed infinitely better with substantially better results.

What do we know about managing karma? Nothing. He is the Master of it!

And third, through Shabd meditation we can burn through most of our Sinchit karma internally.

These are the identical principles taught be all Shabd mystics throughout recorded history.

That they are misunderstood and misinterpreted speaks to an individuald choice to handle their own misunderstanding with blame, rather than learning.

But in Sant Mat blame of any kind is not permitted. So, call it a misunderstanding for the time being. We are all students,
this is all a college,
There are different courses each prepared for us by God individually, and we are confronted regularly with the challenge to learn or to avoid learning. So simple. All is well.

@ Spencer,

You may be right that karma can’t be avoided and that the Guru is only a guide. But isn’t it also true that RSSB has been making people fools for a long time with their lectures and literature that “Guru will take care of everything”?

This belief did not come from nowhere. For decades, satsang after satsang, book after book, the message given to ordinary satsangis was that the Guru is not just a guide — he is the one who will handle everything if we surrender. So now when RSSB suddenly changes the stance and says the Guru is only a guide, not a savior, many people feel cheated.

And honestly, this is happening at a time when the whole Guru image has changed completely.

Recently we have seen two Gurus in Dera. We have seen one Guru supporting an accused and providing him a clean chit — someone who has been accused of drug and money laundering by police (as widely reported). We have seen luxury expensive cars. We have seen court cases against GSD himself for fraud, money laundering, land grabbing (again, as reported). And now coming in front of media and supporting an accused.

Where Gurus were known for spirituality, sacrifices, and raising voice against injustice, now Gurus are doing just the opposite. Spirituality definition is changing with time: no sacrifices, and we never saw raising any voice against injustice — but going to celebrities and ministers or well known rich people’s homes and posing for photo session. PR tricks are on the top instead of real good work.

Not sure what real saints must be thinking when they see how their name and so-called Gurus are being used for their own benefits.

I guess this is what is called real Kalyug.

One only has to turn on the computer or phone these days to be confronted with – not just plain old news – but opinion pieces posing as news. We don’t get weather forecasts, we get sensationalist headlines that tell us ‘UK snow maps show huge 600-mile snow bomb to bury UK cities’, along with experts warning people of things that we should or shouldn’t be doing. And we lazily scroll through tons of this stuff, which acts like pernicious memes.

In much the same way, we latch on to the words and teachings of saints, gurus and masters. As if these people were different from the rest of mankind who have joys and pains, worries and everyday life problems and pleasures. These ‘masters’ may have accrued certain techniques garnered from ancient beliefs, have a certain charisma and developed a way of presenting teachings and systems of habit and behaviour, but basically, they are just as ignorant of life’s questions as we all are – such as why we are here, what happens when we die, does God exist and so on.

No surprise then that they change their teachings – as their students begin to question not only their ‘masters’ but the reasons they themselves are students.

The only difference is that they profess to have an inside knowledge about such things – the things that come through our fears, insecurities and desire to ‘know’ these things, we pay attention to these people. It’s because so many things are unknown to us (and will probably remain so) that we ‘employ’ gurus.

To face the everyday, quite natural realities of who/what we are and the natural world about us, seems either to be unacceptable to us or we are incapable of understanding (or wanting to understand) the everyday actualities of our existence – and eventual demise. Hence, we prefer to live in our mind-constructed worlds of beliefs, opinions and views – few of which reflect our realities.

The practice of spirituality, in many ways resembles the hunt for material treasures, all sorts of secrets etc. and these stories are an fertile soil for a lot of talk.

That talk does appear in al forms imaginable.

To judge the existence of these treasures, material or otherwise on how these talks are presented and received, has nothing to do with the existence of these treasures and the possibility to be found.

Some do need the weirdness of these tales as an excuse for themselves not to get involved. …and .. that is just another form of outsourcing.

If one is not interested in the existence of treasures, that is all right and enough. It needs no explanation nor justification

I never had the intellectual and emotional drive to follow people like the late Bhagawan Rashneesh, just to name one of the many., but that doesn’t mean it was worth to do so, or that there was something wrong, with him and his teachings … my own mindset was enough

In order to decide not to drink coffee, or drinking this or that brand, there is no need whatsoever to pass any judgement on coffee or this or that brand.

The psychological need for passing judgements on gurus, their teachings etc to “justify” one’s point of view, one’s decisions etc is of the same order as attributing all sort of meaning full and valuable nonsense to the same.

As spiritual experiences are deeply personal, we often become overly emotional and fall into the trap of deification.

To “deify” a teacher is to treat them as a literal, infallible God in human form, rather than as a seasoned guide.

This is where many seekers fail, as they begin to worship the messenger while completely missing the message.

The danger of idolizing a teacher to this extreme is that it creates a false distance between the student and the truth.

When we put a teacher on a supernatural pedestal, we subconsciously tell ourselves that their peace or wisdom is unattainable for “mere mortals” like us.

We forget that a true Guru was once exactly where we are now.

They are a human being whose own “inner candle” was lit by their own teacher, allowing them to pass that spark of realization on to others. They are not the source of the light; they are the torchbearers.

By turning the teacher into a deity, we move from a state of active practice to a state of passive dependency, expecting the Guru to “save” us rather than doing the hard work of self-transformation.

This human tendency toward dependency is so strong that even the greatest masters in history had to warn their followers against it. A profound example of this is found in the life of Jesus Christ.

Sensing that his disciples had become too reliant on his physical presence, he told them that it was actually “expedient” or necessary for him to leave them. He understood that as long as he was there in the flesh to answer every question and perform every miracle, the disciples would never look inward. He promised that after his departure, the “Comforter” or the Holy Spirit would come to them.

His message was clear: his physical absence was required so that they could finally discover the Spirit of Truth within their own hearts. He moved them away from an outer dependency so they could find an inner sovereignty.

Ultimately, the purpose of an outer Guru is to act as a catalyst for the discovery of this inner teacher.

We all possess a “Higher Self”—that quiet, subtle voice of intuition and divine guidance that we frequently ignore in the noise of daily life.

The outer teacher provides the map and the discipline required to quiet that noise so that we can finally hear our own internal compass.

They act as a mirror, reflecting our own potential back to us until we are strong enough to see it for ourselves.

While we absolutely need an outer teacher to learn how to connect with the divine, the goal is never to find a hero to worship outside of ourselves.

The role of the guide is to lead us back to our own souls. By avoiding the trap of deification and maintaining a focus on the practice, we move from the external world of searching to the internal world of knowing.

@ Solomon

Is this from the literature of Adyashanti?

One could make the very same charges against Charan. Or against Jagat, Sawan, and Jaimal. But no one will, so we just get this slop devoid of any actual comparative references.

The only way Gurinder has altered RSSB teachings is through his comments that RSSB Sant Mat is not the only way to God. Gurinder’s ecumenical tone is a distinct departure from his predecessor — Maharaji (Great King) Charan Singh — who consistently said the only way to God was through RSSB meditation.

Radha Soami studies has ever been filled with “exes” who are still adject Charan lovers. Why is this so?

You could call it Successor Rejection. This is a straightforward descriptive phrase used in leadership studies, organizational psychology, and succession planning literature. It captures the pattern where followers idealize the predecessor (often seeing them as irreplaceable or uniquely authoritative) while viewing the successor as inadequate, illegitimate, a deviation from the “true” path, or even a betrayer. It’s especially noted in cases where the original leader had strong personal charisma or built the group around their direct presence.

That’s why all RSSB criticism is about Gurinder, and not Charan, the guy who appointed Gurinder (his nephew, and the 1st and only instance of nepotism in RSSB) and was 99,9% his photocopy.

Though they claim to have left Sant Mat, the exradhasoamiers are usually still involved in personality cult dynamics. Followers bonded to the predecessor’s charisma often resist or resent the new leader, leading to factions, disillusionment, or exit. In extreme cases, it’s tied to “cult of personality” where loyalty is to the individual, not the institution or teachings.

That’s why RSSB ex-followers despise Gurinder, and argue that all the faults of RSSB theology were created by Gurinder, but they never whisper a word about how Charan taught the same thing.

In guru-based paths, this often manifests as ex-members or holdouts insisting the “real” path ended with the previous master, while dismissing the current one as lesser or inauthentic. It’s driven by factors like idealization of the past leader’s era, perceived changes in tone/style/teachings, unmet emotional needs, or cognitive dissonance when the successor doesn’t evoke the same awe.

It is all so very tedious. When will they get over it?

@ Solomon

Thank you.

In that case you have not only achieved spiritual insight but you are also a gifted writer.

@ Solomon

>> These thoughts are the result of that personal awareness and the shift towards finding the teacher within.

It was not an easy process to go through; when that sudden reality hits, you feel like someone on crutches who has suddenly lost them.<<

Reading your words reminds me of my dear late friend, that after an inner realization said …"whatever others seek outside is 24/7 with me.

After ir happened to him he was "forced" to express himself in a huge anount of poetry and songs.

What surprised me then and even to this day, is that he in a sense turned his back upon the organisation.

Partly I do understand given his education and character but it doesn't fit well with the good times we shared in being involved in a seva that brought us together for days every month.

But more than anything else I never understood how he could still have days he felt mentaly, let me use this word, miserable, that made him come to see me, have a walk during which that mood would disappear.

It is not uncommon for followers of one guru to develop disliking for the successor. The reasons may be simpler than just theological spin. It is the politics of personality. Each guru has their own unique personality, and just like people we resonate or don’t resonate with them. Some liked Ajaib and were not drawn to Darshan. Some like Thakar and were not drawn to Ajaib. Some liked Sawan and were not drawn to Charan and instead opted for Paul Twitchell. Thus, theology may be a factor, but personality alliance and a feeling of a connection is more elemental. For instance, there are a number of satsangis who like Gurinder more than Charan, but we don’t tend to bring those up. Some even prefer to Jasdeep to Gurinder and will openly say so. In any case, who or what we resonate with is more of an emotional connection than merely or only a theological one.

Hi Rinku
You wrote
“@ Spencer,

” You may be right that karma can’t be avoided and that the Guru is only a guide. ”

As I wrote he is far more than that. He manages all your karma, Rinku. Please see my earlier comment.

You wrote
” But isn’t it also true that RSSB has been making people fools for a long time with their lectures and literature that “Guru will take care of everything”?

He does take care of everything, or more to the point, he manages everything, including your participation. But it’s not a bowl of your mom’s pudding. That’s exactly right. You give him all your karma and he manages it, including your part in working through it here and within. You are only getting about 10% of the negative, Rinku, and that happens through some very clever inneradjustments of your karma. Still, it all has to be accounted for. He makes it easy, and we grow compassion in the process.

You wrote

“This belief did not come from nowhere. For decades, satsang after satsang, book after book, the message given to ordinary satsangis was that the Guru is not just a guide — he is the one who will handle everything if we surrender.”

Yes exactly, but you still must do your part. See my earlier note. Your participation is absolutely required.

You wrote
” So now when RSSB suddenly changes the stance and says the Guru is only a guide, not a savior, many people feel cheated.”

No one on the RSSB side has ever said that. Even Jesus said you must do your part. See my earlier note.

You wrote

“And honestly, this is happening at a time when the whole Guru image has changed completely.

” Recently we have seen two Gurus in Dera. We have seen one Guru supporting an accused and providing him a clean chit — someone who has been accused of drug and money laundering by police (as widely reported). We have seen luxury expensive cars. We have seen court cases against GSD himself for fraud, money laundering, land grabbing (again, as reported). And now coming in front of media and supporting an accused.”

Quite a show, this world.

“Where Gurus were known for spirituality, sacrifices, and raising voice against injustice, now Gurus are doing just the opposite. ”

No.Gurinder has always raised his voice against pollution and mistreatment of animals, the environment, ourselves and each other. Right from the start.

But he isn’t a political activist.

If you want to see his arena of action go within. The things that happen in His presence are astounding, if you can learn to see them.

Hi Rinku
There is a difference between Master managing things and our general ignorance of that. It takes a while to see what is going on. But when we do, OMG.

Swami Ji wrote in Sar Bachan poetry

“Having heard of its supreme worth I adopted the path of the Saints.
I wonder why they don’t help me on this path!”

We don’t see it for a while. It’s always been like this. Nothing new. Your situation is part of it.

St. Paul, the earliest promoter of Christianity to the gentiles also makes this point that you must learn to do your part.

“12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”

Romans 8:12-13

The teachings are identical. YOU must learn and master how to use the Spirit and put to death Sin. That’s still on you. The living Christ is here and within to help.

Best wishes, Rinku.

@ Spence

That poem you refered to “Guru Mohe Deeje Apna Dhaam” Chapt 33:13, ends with:

>>Radha Soami, bestower of the true Nam, says:
anyone who suffers the pain of separation shall be comforted.<<

SUFFERS the pain of separation = HUNGER

MCS said time an again that one can eat when two conditions are fulfilled:
[1] there must be food on the table
[2] there must be hunger
AND ….
both are GIVEN.

"Given" doesn't necessary refer to a "GIVER" as that can be or not be experienced, but it certainly stresses that it is beyond a person to have it at will.

This poem speeks of a person that has the "HUNGER" but no food

"Brother, the pull must come from within and if it is not there, it is just not there and there is NOTHING …YOU …can …DO … about it.

So, there might be a giver, there might be food on the table but if there is no hunger, why would anybody remain sitting at the table.?

So if a person …. IS …. hungry he will not leave the table and act as described in the poem, that he or she will remain sitting at the table and wait.

If that hunger is not given, the pain is not there, the pangs of separation are not there, and there will be no comfort given.

Hi Um
Um, please re-read Swami Ji’s poem and try to understand he is describing the situation of the person who longs for God. That person can most certainly blame the Lord! It’s part and parcel of the human experience On The PATH!

“I wonder why they don’t help me?…
Surely this will bring discredit to the path if I fail to accomplish my goal!”

Blame is quite common, and longing or the absence or God’s presence within us also quite common.

Emptiness is part of the path, Um, not a lack of anything at all!

How do we deal with it? Some will stick to the knitting and in time the curtain will be removed.

Others will blame and feel abandoned, until they return to the fact that they still do not have what they want.

And so, as the character in Swami Ji’s poem writes,
“So, time and again I cry out in supplication,
Please give me the true Name
As and when it pleases you.”

Time and again.. The person must return to this emptiness, this frustration, this blame many times. They reject, but they can’t let go, and in time they are exhausted, just like Rinka and our dear friend Brian.

That leads to surrender, Um. After all the blame, after all the emptiness, then comes the acceptance, the submission, the surrender, and the cries for Master’s love.

And then only the love pours out like a sea of nectar upon us.

You’ve got to hit bottom to get there, Um.

The emptiness has to be complete, the defeat must be complete so that the surrender is complete.

All in good time, my friend.

@ Spence T.

I did read the poem quite well… it is addressing a person that has “hunger” …. now YOU re-read my answer, and find out if I am like that person in that poem

Hi Um:
The person in the poem may be hungry, but they also are empty: “I live in the grip of delusion.”

You can judge for yourself where you are on that spectrum. You don’t need me to do that.

You like to separate sincere devotion from those who choose to blame, denigrate or deny the Master. And be very vocal for years ad nauseum about that. There isn’t actually any distinction at all, Um. One will make faster progress, that is all.

No difference, Um. Yes you, Brian, Rinka and I are all “like that person in that poem” at different times and stages. That’s why Swami Ji wrote it, for all of us. It’s just a matter of recognition, of honesty with ourselves, etc. Peeling the onion in layers. The room that appears empty may be entirely filled. But they may need to become entirely empty, even of their ego and limited thinking, to be receptive, accepting, submissive. If those words make you cringe, you aren’t there yet.

See you at the bottom, Chum!

@ Spence

It is alright for you to see it as you write, but it is not my cup of coffee.

I look back upon my association with spirituality as I look back upon my childhood, without remorse, resentment or whatever.
I enjoyed it, as it came to me and how it was consumed by me.

Over the years both the past and the future shrinked to whatever is just at hand, ..I am waiting for the moment there is nothing more to take away to see what happens.

Castaneda spoke about ..losing your own history .. in losing history one loses also future.

History is related to the outside world and to the interaction with it … let me paraphrase what he said to me ..you go out into the world brother to find happiness and you come home even more frustrated than you were before, stay at home en enjoy your own life in your own company

But I guess you do not understand it as I do.

Hi Um:
Your ability to understand the world, yourself, the past and the future depends a lot upon conditioning, and thinking.

The difference between what you perceived happened in WWII and what is happening right now within you is actually not much at all. Indeed what is in you shapes the history you see. And If Now is all that is, then even what you thought you thought in your youth is just how you see it now.

Learning can go both ways, Um. You can forget what you learned, you can fall from where you were, into darkness, and because it is darkness, you see all your youth as darkness and forget the light you once lived in.

So, when all the past goes so will the present, and as for future, well that might be Um’s future but it won’t be yours.

The body of emotion, flesh and thoughts is a great teamwork of wonderful servants. We will all be happy when they finish their assignment, and we can say “well done. Thank you for your service.”

Yes, that will be a wonderful moment, for in an instant you will forget all this.

Yes this is how I see it. Um.

And how you see it? How can it be any different than what your history and thinking, conditioning and past have shaped? But we are changing beings, hardly aware of how subtly but completely we change over time, only to return to our self. But that self may be invisible, so what we think we really are is just a product of our servants, mind, body and emotion. They of course do not know anything. They are like AI, not sentient. And so their creation of an answer to “who Am I” is going to be a historical collage at best, with may of the actual past images long lost and missing. It won’t be accurate.

@ Spence

No we are not all the same.
How do I know, I know it from him, he explained it to me personal.

It was difficult for me to understand and accept as a child that the priests made a difference in the name of Christ between those that were Baptisted and those not.

When I started out ion the path, I was happy to find it to be “universal” but very soon I had to face the same problem that i had as a child,

One evening, out of the blue, he explained it to me and ever since these feelings have gone.

He compared the souls with bricks, bricks placed in a building and said that in order to honor the bricks in the roof, there have to be bricks in the foundation … and grasping the suggestion in the metaphor i was back were i was as a child… I asked him what was going to happen with the brick in the foundation …. for a while he gazed silently at me .. and than in very soft tone he said … they remain where they are, they are all part of the lord.

It was not the words, not the concepts but the tone and the body language, that conveyed the message and ever since I never had any problem with “being chosen” issues as all are chosen.

There have to be crows … hahaha

@Um

Do you have a PDF copy of “Anmol Bachan” by Baba Garib Das to share ?

Thank you.

Now, Um, Master may have used this metaphor differently at different times.

But if we are at the top, that is the top of creation, in the human form, where everyone can be brought to the Shabd. And all other forms of life after in the wheel of Transmigration, so that they all cycle through from top to bottom and back up again, however long the arc of millennia, however fine that wheel of justice grinds. But it isn’t a matter of judging anyone else, Um. It is a matter for each of us to be better students so that we can aid our own progress, and make full opportunity of the immense wealth of His presence. Nothing else is needed.

@ Spence

>> Now, Um, Master may have used this metaphor differently at different times.<<

I am glad you wrote it, it saves me the trouble, bud let me add this much.

He time and again made it clear that things said and written to a particular person, cannot and should not be generalized. When is was said it was said to me; for me to understand.

In my answer yesterday, I tried to convey the that the real answer was not the metaphor itself but the addition that of the place and ownership of the "building"

Anyway it has solved for me the contradiction between being chosen and universality.

Well, Spence I read your explanation in the second message as being yours and being yours I have nothing to say about it but with what I did write here, there was never a link to judging anybody or anything.

My mind is wired different from yours Spense …thoughts related to "becoming better … something different" … just never arise in my mind and where these thoughts do no arise neither do emotions …. all is perfect as it is. … the crow, the nightingale and the eagle.

Crows, for their own good, should not look upon other birds as HIS goal, he exists to give expression to crowness.

@ Graeme D.

>> But the majority of human beings, including myself, need direct guidance without ambiguities.<<

Yes, that is correct but not all people are the same and not all have the same need for guidance and probably not all needs can be satisfied

Having gone through a lengthy process of asking questions myself etc i have come to the conclusion that all that ask questions, are well advised to investigate in the motives BEHIND and UNDER a question asked … in the end, in doing so, I completely stopped asking questions.

@Um

>> From what you wrote earlier I understand you managed to set your foot on the interior. If so you must have met the radiant form … why not ask that form? <<

Ha Ha…to clarify, I haven't claimed nor have I set foot in the interior….

I am speaking from the tiny awareness that has grown over the years.

Regarding your question about asking the 'form', I recall what GSD had mentioned in some Q&A that the meeting with the Radiant Form is the moment a seeker realizes that this form is their own True Self.

I feel language often limits our understanding.

In Hindi, there is the word 'Mehsoos' which is difficult to translate perfectly into English.

It isn't just 'feeling' or 'seeing', it is a deep, internal perception of presence.

An example will be the difference between knowing about the sun because you see its light and knowing the sun because you feel its warmth on your skin.

One is an observation; the other is a deep, internal realization.

Sorry to put it this way: to meet the Radiant Form isn't like meeting a person on the street where you exchange questions and answers.

It is something you "mehsoos', a realization that permeates your entire being.

Furthermore, Maharaj Charan Singh Ji gave us the ultimate key when he said,

"May the love for the form culminate into the love for the formless."

If we are looking for a 'form' inside, we are still using the tools of the mind.

Forms are part of the illusionary play of the mind.

In the realm of pure existence, there is no form. There is no me to ask and no form to answer.

There is only the Formless Reality. One cannot expect a form to exist in a realm of pure, non-dual existence.

We eventually have to let go of the form of the teacher; you cannot merge into the formless if you are still holding onto a person.

@ Solomon

It was a pleasure reading your words and clear explanation.
Thank you.

Probably I do have a rather naive childish imagination ..your words reminded me of an incident with MCS. There was an discussion going on about the astral realm, the inhabitants of that realm etc and a soul rising up to that realm.

Wondering how such a thing could look like both for the one that lifts his awareness and those inhabitants of that realm … i asked him do they just pop up their out ot the gound … hahaha … he laughed his heart out, like a parent laughing about.

I must miss many requisites for walking the path as he eon several occasions in public or private would sigh and start a sentence … why are you not more xxxx etc .. then naming a certain mental activity.

Hahaha …. I could never find the switches to bring to live what he was saying.

With regard to The anmol Bachan, the translation was given to me by a senior member of the sangat. I never asked why I wanted me to read it. On handing it to me he said: “it will blow your mind”. Well it didn’t do as I am still able to make myself coffee.
He also “asked” me not to share it with others and that is what I did. By now the inkt of the copy is fading out and the text is barely readable.

Over time I came to understand why he said it and why they did not like the word spread in the dera. The contend doe not serve anybody.

Those that have not made way forward on the path might have to face questions that cannot be solved like reading medical literature for a young women to give birth will not help here to approach giving birth in a relaxed way.

And those that have made their way forward, know whatever is needed to know by personal experience.. To illustrate what I am intended to say , compare for example how an ol Italian women makes bread for a week. Probably she even is illiterate and has not very much to say about what she does. Yet her hands know everything about the quality of the flour, etc etc. Then there are does that have studied the proces on an scientific level and can tell you everything about the materials, their interaction and the proces and they write their findings in studies and books.

So reading the Anmol Bachan wil not produce a “better bread”

@ Solomon

Have some coffee and see how bread is made old school:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p5zNpxxgok

The biggest form of Seva is towards our nearest and dearest and not towards a Fake Guru like Gurinder Singh Dhilion and Jassdeep fake Baba and a Bad Cult like Radha Soami.

This Baba sits on stage and endlessly tells the sangat that they’re loved ones are the root of evil and that we should break ties with them and follow his evil cult Radha Soami.

This is the most evil teachings one could teach and one should believe. Never believe Gurinder but watch his actions and they have spoken volumes.

How can they the ones we love be the root of evil?

It’s this Gurinder Singh Dhilion who wants you to believe him so he can get you to do his dirty seva , physically and mentally.
What a leech.

A parasite who takes all you love for exchange of a lying baba

What idiot would do that?

Keep away from Scum like this and love and look after what you love and have while you have it.

Religions are the root of all evil and the cause of wars

Just look around

Radha soami and Gurinder Singh Dhilion are the worst of the worst
His endeavour in the Drug mafia syndicate is the truth of his character which needs to be questioned by everyone.

He definitely has a big share of the pie and has now been openly Named and Shamed in the whole of Punjab for the killing of so many young innocent lives lost to drugs.

Thanks to Gurinders drug pushing cult.

Land grabbing, tax fraud, evasion and the rest of his evil antics shows the world now as we all laugh at him as to what a real Donkey he has made of himself today.

A life of crime never pays and Gurinder Singh Dhilion is the perfect example of that today.

Gurinder couldn’t save his own ass now with what’s going on in his own life, let alone anyone else’s

Hi Um
You wrote
“My mind is wired different from yours Spense …thoughts related to “becoming better … something different” … just never arise in my mind and where these thoughts do no arise neither do emotions …. all is perfect as it is. … the crow, the nightingale and the eagle.”

Yes on this point I agree. What is my next step towards that beautiful sea of light I once bathed in? How should I manage today better so He is always in my heart and the eye of my soul?

These considerations do not occupy others. As expected. But they are my constant occupation, my obsession that will not let go.

I was thrown down here, having come from elsewhere. And tragic is the one who sees so clearly always what is just beyond their grasp, who is given that glimpse only to be taken back to his cell here again: Who lives in momentary amnesia only to curse himself the moment the Master returns his memory in meditation, only to snatch it away again upon arising to meet the day’s responsibilities.

But just like you, I would not give up my particular condition, not my Master for anything, most certainly this worthless life.

So when he wants us to struggle it is easy for him to create it. And I am grateful for it. But it isn’t a curse I would wish on anyone else. Yet it is the only worthy thing in my life.

Um
When you attend a motion picture displaying people of great accomplishments and lands of great wealth, it is easy to leave the theater telling yourself “that isn’t my life. That’s fiction.” What a great gift the mind gives us! But when it is your friends, your spouse, and home you stupidly walked away from long ago, then the grief is in unimaginable and unending. To think of returning, once you have witnessed that, is your temporary solace. To wonder aloud, “what else can I do today?” To pray to God for inspiration, under those conditions, is a great source of peace, direction and energy.

But it’s not for everyone. Not everyone has been thrown down that well, and knows it.

And even if they suspect it, it’s a movie they avoid seeing. Understandably.

@ Spence

It is not clear to me, going over your words, whether what you write is a metaphor or something that happened to you in this world.

Um
It is all of the above. Within first and then played out in slow motion in this life, and recurring like groundhog day in this daily life.

@ Spence

>> But when it is your friends, your spouse, and home you stupidly walked away from long ago,<<

That would mean, given my understanding of your last message, that you factual turned your back upon your spouse and friends and left them.

My life has been lived backwards, Um.

People talk about time moving forwards and the impossibility of it moving any other way.

But for me it has gone on the opposite direction.

I was home, happily in my destination, then it grew further and further from my grasp. And now little by little, in a hope you would claim is ill advised, I get to work my way back, with the help of our Master.

And as for turning my back on friends, isn’t that why we are all here?

Are you so surprised that it happened in this life too, and from the same stupidity?

I would advise caution in taking away anyone else’s hope for return home, wherever they find it.

@ Spence

Even the translation in my own language, I could not get the finger behind what you wrote.

It seems that your spiritual interests drove you away from those near and dear. as is often reported by people having had NDE’s etc.. They stil love their near and dear as before but are seen by them as having become another person.

If writing about these things is uncomfortable, please don’t do it.

Gurinder singh dhillon , is EPSTIEN BABA OF PUNJAB – just like Epstien files give plenty of evidence of crimes , by politicians, and elites yet their money and power has meant there have been no arrests. How can GSD crook become a self proclaimed judge and declare his brother in law and drug lord majithia innocent. The evidence of 700 crore of unaccountable money in the posession of majitia cannot be accounted, hence the charges , yet GSD has given him a clean chit, making gurinder an accesory. Gurinder singh dhillon is the drug master mind behind the drug empire of Punjab. He has the lives of 100s thousands blood on his hands. Furthermore he uses the rssb charity to launder drug money , everyone can see that, hence the name EPSTEIN BABA OF PUNJAB. He also now desires to become the CM of Punjab, lol, this is the non political , now very political baba of beas. Lock this crook up with ram Rahim and throw away the key.

@Solomom,….you asked UM,…..IF he had a pdf?

https://dn721809.ca.archive.org/0/items/SantGaribDasRadhsoamiBookAnmolVachan/Rare_Passages_from_Sant_Garib_Das_Radhsoami_Book_Anmol_Vachan.pdf

Hi Um:
You wrote:
“Even the translation in my own language, I could not get the finger behind what you wrote.”

Try looking at it as a metaphor, one that you yourself write. Then you may reconstruct something that makes sense to you. I’d be interested to read what that is.

Haven’t we all left our spouse?
Didn’t you also take vows?

And aren’t we all moving further and further from home the longer we double down on ignoring it?

Aren’t we all strangers in a strange land here, Um?

@ Spence

All right, if you just want to focus on the metaphor in relation to the narrative of Sant Mat, than let me react by writing again that you and I are not wired the same way.

You see Spence, if a person is not interested in let us say reincarnation, karma etc, or that it cannot be proven to the satisfaction of all, that, by itself, does not exclude the possibility that it exists and is working but the believe in it can and does have impact on the way people live.

I know what the narrative says about the lover and the beloved, but when it is not an actual part of ones live, whatever meaning and value is attribute to it, is imagination and that too, can have an deep impact upon a persons way of life .. what to say about those that EXPERIENCE it as you seem to suggest in what you wrote.

What can a person without having children of his or her own, understand from what it is to have children?
What does an bachelor know about the feelings of a married couple?
What does a man know about, giving birth to a child?

I have no experience of the path, so words”like pangs of separation” are just words …yes .. i can imagined based upon what a person writes about it what it might be for him or her .. kind of emphatic impression so to say .. but that is all.

In the light thereof what else is there for me but to remain silent.
Whatever reaction I give would be meaningless.

When my friend was still around, I never could figure out whether he was to pity or to congratulate. As I wrote before, no withstanding his 24/7 presence of something, he had to face very dark mood swings, that would disappear like melting snow before the sun, there moment he would see me and i rejoiced in seeing him come to live and we just could sit down have coffee, apple pie , chat about nothing, a walk in the forest and having dinner together.

His writing of poetry and songs was the sole thing that reminded my of mystics that were forced to do the same otherwise nobody would notice or know a thing. He would never write a word here

But your trajectory is different, you bring your experience on the table of this internet Inn and … I? .. I just listen and react to what those sitting at the habitues’ table bring in. unfortunately some sitting at that table should wash their mouth with soap as what comes out stinks like hell.

Here Um, is another quote that may help explain that this pain you spoke of may not be unimportant.

“I freed many slaves.

And I would have freed many more,
Had they known they were slaves.”

@ Spence

Not wired like you I had to turn to AI for help:

The meaning of the quote
The quote focuses on the difference between physical and mental freedom. Here is the breakdown:

[1] Mental Imprisonment:
The saying suggests that some people have become so accustomed to an oppressive situation or a limiting system that they consider it “normal.” If you don’t realize you are trapped, you will never feel the need to escape.

[2] The Barrier to Change:
According to this quote, the biggest obstacle to liberation is not physical chains, but the mental belief that there is no alternative.

[3]Awareness as the First Step:
The speaker implies they could have saved many more people if they could have first convinced them that their current state was unjust and unnatural.

If that is what you think, what can I say?!

Whatever wealth others had, material, mental or spiritual, had no meaning and value for me and was never of effect in the relations I had in life. …. what did matter is loving to be together

Of the wealth of others would have been an issue, I would have had many bad days in my live as my path through live brought me into contact with many wealthy people in. this world.

People matter, not their accomplishments.

Yes, Um
The wealth we share, the wealth within.
And our ability to connect with that.

Well Folks, since turning 84 several days ago, For your information, that indicates I have survived another 7 years since my 77th birthday, so I have now completed 12 Degrees of 7 year Increments of growth and change! So, I think my Mission here, as Jim, has pretty much been completed, for better or worse. So, in essence , I am starting my 13th Degree of incarnation in this Temple , called Jim.
#13 is said to be an unlucky number, so this very well could become my Temple of Doom, if I don’t make a drastic change of courses! I have been having night mares, thinking about my impending death, and waking up in some new born child taking birth inside the Dera! Even worse, I might be a female child! Either female, or male, born to Indian Satsangi parents, who are residents of the Dera, destined to do Seva of cleaning toilets, scrubbing floors, sweeping streets, and any and all of the other slave Labor performed by permanent residents of the Dera. My Fate will be cast, if I don’t immediately change my course as Jim, before it’s too late, and I reincarnate in to the body of a Satsangi slave/sevadore, destined to serve Guru Gill , that is, if I’m lucky enough to avoid transmigrating in to some lower specie Beast, as is described in the new rules taught by Guru Gurinder and Apprentice Gill.
So, effective IMMEDIATELY, I am following Brian Hines exit from RSSB after his 35 years, as my 35 years since I was initiated by Charan Feb. 4th, 1990. I never was a Fan of Gurinder, and I sure am less of a Fan of untested youngster Gill.
I intend to quit using BOTH 5 Name Panch Naam Sikh Simran, as well as the SoamiBagh RADHASOAMI Simran, both replaced for a much more simple and realistic Simran, which should return me back to my past solid Christian background. My new simple Simran is, HOLY SPIRIT, HAVE MERCY ON ME.
The quicker I break my 35 year habit of the RSSB Simran, and delete the past 35 years of memories of Gurinder Singh destroying every last fond memory I ever had of what originally drew me to Charan and Sawan Singh,……the quicker my freedom will be restored, to follow the Apostle Paul , so that when I meditate, using my Simran,…..HOLY SPIRIT, HAVE MERCY ON ME, like Paul, when I’m out of body, I’m In The Lord. THAT’s where I want to be, not in any of those ficticious realms of SarBachun. “Absent from the body, present with the Lord!”
GIMMIE that ole time Religeon,…..it’s good enough for me!”

Hi Um
You wrote
“Of the wealth of others would have been an issue, I would have had many bad days in my live as my path through live brought me into contact with many wealthy people in. this world.”

To not have issue with the wealthy is fine. Better still to accept the poor.