Open Thread 33 (free speech for comments)

Dear Karen, You wearing a mask reduces the infected droplets in the area. My wearing a mask reduces the droplets I breath in. If we both wear masks, we more than double the chances of avoiding covid-19.

Here’s your daily dose of happy❣️
https://youtu.be/_BvB0182xag
❤️❤️❤️ 🦁🐯🐻 🥰🥰🥰

There it is the work of Karma
Lions tigers bears chimps bulldogs jaguars all have souls, personalities, feel and appreciate love and affection, across species, across typical instinct.
every living creature has a soul and embodiment of love, while humans watch and marvel at the mystery of the play of love, love in the end owns the heart and owns the world and the universe and the show.

every living creature has a soul and embodiment of love, while humans watch and marvel at the mystery of the play of love, love in the end owns the heart and owns the world and the universe and the show.
Posted by: Apnehochi namastari | July 01, 2020 at 01:58 PM
They do indeed. And according to Kabir there are bedazzled fish among other things in the realm of Mansorvar (above Trikuti). So, aside from simply not eating animals, I think we should appreciate what they can teach us about Love.

@manjit
No, I’m not surprised at all. 😂
Thanks for your suggestion. So, I placed an order for this:
Genius Mushroom – Lions Mane, Cordyceps and Reishi – Immune System Booster & Nootropic Brain Supplement – Wellness Formula for Natural Energy, Stress Relief, Memory & Liver Support, 90 Veggie Pills https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078SJ9F5S/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1ar.Eb8GX8J3F
I’m going to test it out on my husband first since he’s more sensitive to meds/supplements than I am and it’s good for stomach ulcers which is a serious hereditary problem for the men in his family.
I can’t do trippy. I’m interested in it restoring the myelin sheath around nerves and immune support. 🤞
It arrives tomorrow. (Will definitely let you know the results.)

Georgy,
Yes, it’s a big commitment. Seems like your the kind of person that once you’ve committed to something you stick with it come hell or high water.
I totally understand that. I mean, I’m not like you. I’ll start questioning. But it takes me a very long time to commit to anyone—friend or otherwise and once I do it’s extremely difficult for me to walk away. I have only a few friends (well about 10) and I’ve been friends with them for years. I’m the queen of dysfunctional relationships simply because I’d rather stick around and try to make sense of things than start all over. I’m somewhat addicted to change EXCEPT for when it comes to friends and partners. I don’t like change in that area of my life. It takes waaaay too long for me to form new bonds. I don’t know how people can jump in and out of new relationships. It’s the history that gives substance and strength to the foundation between people—even if the history was difficult. It just shows that there’s a determination to make it work.
We’re all different, Georgy. I hope at some point you can appreciate that.

I mean, this blog is a perfect example. I hardly use social media at all. And I may read other blogs and check out comments on Quora and Reddit but I’ve never posted a comment on any of them. I feel like it’s my typical dysfunctional nature, but I’m comfortable with Brian and this blog and the commenters here so I’m pretty much an open book here minus all the shit I would never tell ANYONE 😂 (and there’s more of that than you know).
It takes a long time to get comfortable with people and I certainly don’t expect anyone to be “perfect”.

Tom Papa is hilarious. I think his philosophy on life (surface level) is pretty spot on.
https://youtu.be/ABNus3skvfk

If masks are the answer, why didn’t the Masters of Science recommend them from the beginning?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-a-face-mask-protect-you-11589842953
It turns out that masks do very little to ensure that germs aren’t spread. Ask anyone (like myself) who picked up an infection after surgery in a supposedly sterile OR from a mask-wearing surgical team.
But now it has become an article of faith that masks are the only thing standing between the survival of humanity and a wholesale Wuhan wipeout. There’s no scientific evidence for that dogma.
Wearing the mask is like repeating the 5 names or ordering the relentless rennet-less cheese. A bit of virtue signaling to yourself that you’re one of the Good People who Cares, and is Making a Difference. But the difference your mask makes to protect you or anyone else is jack squat. Your experts have been wrong about this crisis every step of the way, yet you still show up for satsang.
Or perhaps sporting a mask is like wearing a turban. Omg, don’t leave home with it! Without the Fauci Face Diaper ou’ll be a social pariah, a renegade, a desecrator of all that is holy.

@7
Have you tried this? (I had to use the tiny url shortened so hopefully you can open the link. I usually use google url shortened but they’ve changed theirs.)
https://tinyurl.com/y9z8vmnh
DHEA has gotten a lot of hype for a few decades now. Just recently I started taking Spirulina and Chlorella daily. Next I’ll try seaweed and nori 🤢 on a weekly basis for full Omega 3s since I can’t take fish oil.
You’re doing great at 83!!!
Kabir lived like 150 or so years (supposedly) which would make you almost middle aged. And that was during the Middle Ages when life expectancy was < 31

There it is the work of Karma
Lions tigers bears chimps bulldogs jaguars all have souls, personalities, feel and appreciate love and affection, across species, across typical instinct.
every living creature has a soul and embodiment of love, while humans watch and marvel at the mystery of the play of love, love in the end owns the heart and owns the world and the universe and the show.
Posted by: Apnehochi namastari | July 01, 2020 at 01:58 PM
Yes, when I meet a person who has completely opposite beliefs or faith than I do, but has noticeably compassionate and empathic actions towards others, it warms my heart. It makes it “real” and serves as a beautiful reminder—there is truly a spirit unifying everything.

J,
Be sure to tell your Dentist, your surgeon, and others in the profession to forego their masks since you
have discovered that they don’t work one bit.
Glad to know you are an expert from one anecdote.
Make sure you inform the University of California, San Francisco, since you know stuff they don’t.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

@ It turns out that masks do very little to ensure that germs aren’t spread.
But even if it prevents only one infection, it could save a
life… or potentially many in an exploding pandemic.

I highly doubt you question things any more than me, especially with the beliefs you have (many of which I find completely wierd and just plain NS to be honest). My more rational background makes me skeptical about virtually everything (which undoubtedly hamstrings me spiritually).
Buy hey believe what you must. If it makes you feel better about yourself, I won’t interfere. I get the feeling you’re more about telling yourself warm fuzzy stories and believing, rather than wanting the truth warts and all. Big difference. No kissy kissy kum ba yah group hugs for me. If it helps you, good, but I don’t think it does. Just my opinion.

For example, I don’t believe in the fairy tales of Rupert Sheldrake. I don’t believe in the use of supplements like eye of newt or any other isolated compound. I don’t believe in alchemy and all the other nonsense you’re researching. I don’t believe in demons, hob-goblins, satanism, the occult and all the other wierd BS that you and others indulge your imaginations in.
Away with the fairies… 🧚‍♀️ 🧚‍♀️

OMG, Georgy, aside from thinking GSD is the be all and end all, what do you believe??
I’m glad you don’t believe in demons. They’re really just shadows of our dark side. You must not have a dark side…
You don’t believe in supplements? Where do you think pharmacology comes from?? Same stuff just taken apart and added with other compounds from nature.
Are you going to tell me you don’t suffer from any physical ailments? Are you in perfect health or do you take some sort of Christian Science approach to health. Talk about fairies. 🧚‍♀️
I guess if I worshipped the guru like he was God then you wouldn’t care what I said about anything else. Well, I would if he weren’t so goddamn mean. Seriously, what does he truly care about? I honestly can’t tell.

Georgy,
You’ve never met me. I’m chill in that I’m not a control freak at all. I let everyone around me (including my pets) live however they want to—as long as they don’t do something completely, insanely ridiculous. But I’m certainly not a huggy huggy person by any stretch of the imagination. I take an extremely avante garde approach to life. And I’m sure that would make you and your black and white mind explode.
Maybe GSD isn’t “mean” but aside from his own family and the Dera (OMG the Dera) I don’t think he cares about anything else. I mean he takes a lot of pride in the Dera. He takes a lot of pride in the size of the sangat. He takes a lot of pride in RSSB being a respected organization. He takes a lot of pride period.
But God help you if you get on his bad side. He just waits for you to finally think it’s safe and then he pounced. That much I finally learned. I would never let my guard down around him again.
But hey, he’s doing a stellar job building RSSB into a highly respected global religiously-spiritual philosophy. Kudos to him. Not sure anyone else could have done what he’s done. And I doubt anyone else would have cared enough to…
You should meet him someday.

How is the guru ‘mean’ and how do I ‘worship’ him?
I believe your antenna is not working properly and that you mistake meanness with goodness, and worship with respect.
I don’t really know what your problem is with the guru but until there is firm evidence for your statements, I won’t believe your fabrications and fairy stories. Sorry, I just won’t.
As for supplements, unless there is some v good reason why you are deficient, our bodies have evolved naturally to digest whole food, not isolated supplements. I suspect for 99% of human beings many of these supplements cause more cancers and health issues than if they were not taken. Two generations of doctors in the family – nature is best cure.
I have no problem with you believing what you want, I just don’t believe in any of it. Again, it’s just a matter of difference. If you believe in the Easter bunny and it makes you happy go for it.

You need to read what is being said, not what you think is being said.
No I don’t believe GSD is the be and end all. Yes, I respect him. No, I don’t worship him. Yes, I think he is good, not mean.
Yes, I don’t think it is right too slander individuals without evidence, and yes I believe if you are going to do so, it is fair and indeed necessary for the same to be done to you.
No, I don’t believe in demons. Yes, I suspect everyone has a dark side. No, this doesn’t mean suicide is okay. Yes, I believe it is selfish, perhaps the most selfish act there is if you have ppl who care about you.
Yes, I think you are a confused sensitive person. Yes, I think the guru cares about you. No, I don’t think you are bad. Yes, I believe you take your own problems and issues in life out on the guru. No I don’t think it’s right that you do so.
Yes I believe evidence-based medicine is a v good thing. No I don’t believe honey-suckle extract, horny goat weed or other supplements will cure any disease or ailment, unless there is objective consistent peer-reviewed double-blind evidence for it (amazon reviews from Aunt Hempseed don’t count).
No I’m not Christian or any other religion. Unlike virtually everyone of you I was born into an atheist household. No I’ve not been initiated. No I’m not american. Yes, I like toast with marmite.
Anything else?

Hi Sonia,
I really liked this line: “I’m going to test it out on my husband first”….haha, must be nice to have a guinea pig to experiment on 🙂
Yeah give it a go, see if there is any discernible benefits to your well-being. I think the benefits are unquestioned. Contrary to some of Georgy Porgy’s typically grossly ignorant and superficial understanding of both generalities (health, healing, science and medicine in general, despite claiming to be from a family of “2 generations of doctors”) and specifics (mushrooms, for example), there is an overwhelming body of evidence going back thousands of years of the benefits of those mushrooms. There is also a very large body of recent scientific evidence which supports the usage of them in Chinese medicine for thousands of years, for example. There are literally thousands of articles out there for each of these mushrooms you mention, nearly all of which reference scientific studies which support the real-world beneficial use of these as medicines for millennia, such as here: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323400 https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1536/hericium-erinaceus https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/lions-mane-mushroom etc etc. Even a cursory search would have shown this, but unfortunately a sign of the times and social media is that people patently unqualified, either academically, experientially, informationally or intellectually to discuss a subject, and far worse too lazy to even perform cursory google or wiki searches on a subject, are able to proffer their ignorant and arrogant views just as loudly as somebody who actually does know what they’re talking about!
Georgy writes: “No I don’t believe…… other supplements will cure any disease or ailment, unless there is objective consistent peer-reviewed double-blind evidence for it”.
To conflate “objective consistent peer-reviewed double-blind evidence” with the effectiveness or not of a medicine is staggeringly naive, a parroting of ideas without any real understanding of the subject. As I have already provided links to several articles (found in less than 1 minute….such hard work this, educating myself!) which in turn refer to possibly hundreds of scientific studies about mushrooms, the point is already absurd. However there is a deeper absurdity, that of mindless deference to the cultural dominant of scientism, that there is no such thing as medicine unless it is an artificial pharmaceutical which has had millions of dollars of “double-blind peer reviewed research” on it. Or the even deeper, but far more complex absurdity of the notion of health as being an entirely materialist reductive problem, an ideology where happiness can be purchased for the price of an artificial pharmaceutical that one is dependant on for life. That’s really working out great for you, isn’t it, my dear by now surely un-depressed Americans? Oh naive ones, which company is going to spend millions of dollars conducting research on a fungi that can be grown for more or less nothing by everyone in their garage or attic?
It’s funny I read these comments today….it happened right after I read a chapter from the so far most excellent and informative “Plant Intelligence and the Imaginal Realm” by Stephen Harrod Buhner. The chapter was about the absolutely mind blowing intelligence of bacteria. And how the arrogant & hubristic views of scientism, unbridled from any kind of holistic understanding of either self, bacteria or the environment in general, led to the unrestrained use of anti-biotics (literally “anti-life”), based on the idea we clever and scientifically all-powerful humans could wipe out these “dangerous” bacteria without any consequences…these are the kind of hubristic illusions and delusions a “scientific” world view which considers mind and consciousness as either illusions or materialistic epi-phenomena, rather than part & parcel of reality, or that intelligence is purely a product of the brain, leads to.
The problem is, no, we humans cannot act on the environment without holistic understanding and not expect any consequences. No, “intelligence” isn’t only the product of a “brain”. Superficial pop-science, the high priests of atheism and scientism etc may loudly declare otherwise, but those scientists who actually work deeply in these areas have been proclaiming for decades there are huge and vast gaps in our models, and that reality, consciousness, biology, eco-systems etc are far more mysterious and un-understood than these ideological priests proclaim.
Point being, pharmaceutical companies and doctors prescribed anti-biotics – which are non-biodegradable and live in our environment, soil, oceans etc forever – without any restraint. But the bacteria those anti-biotics were targeting are so incredibly intelligent (it really is astonishing, we’re talking communication across the world, and across different species & genus, a level of intelligent co-operation that we humans are a very long way from achieving!) that within a few decades bacteria is fast becoming resistant to any potential anti-biotic we can create. Now, antibiotic resistant bacteria are the 4th leading cause of death in the USA: https://www.nrdc.org/experts/david-wallinga-md/drug-resistant-superbugs-4th-leading-cause-death-us. And, apparently, it is only going to get a lot worse……within our lifetimes, scientists believe we will have absolutely no effective antiobiotics left. I’m sure a lot of us comprehend what that implies for healthcare, surgery, hospitals etc, and it is a horrific picture.
So, this is where the masculine world-view of short-sighted, nature-dominating scientism, allied to rampant capitalism but disconnected from nature, consciousness, being etc, leads us. Hubris. Ironically, considering the conversation on this thread, antibiotics are almost always made from fungi! If we could have maintained a more direct and intimate connection with nature, with plants and fungi as medicines, with nature and animals in general, we may have a created a more idyllic society where rampant global capitalism and the delusion of human, scientific mastery over life the universe and everything are not the only values we cherish as a society…..a more deeply connected existence to (as a small part of, not master of) the world, plants, fungi and animals around us, marked by moments of deep joy, happiness, contentment, love, connection and clarity, not based on monetary wealth or possessions, or “followers” or “likes” received etc (and as is evident to me, anyway, nobody I know with these things has ever demonstrated joy and happiness to me……fear, anger, hate, jealousy, ingratitude, sense of privilege and entitlement marked by meltdowns when reality that they are nothing kicks in….yes, all of these abound….but happiness, peace, contentment, love, lack of fear, lack of hate, even in the face of the material circumstances of death and suffering? Cannot be purchased or manufactured in a laboratory).
Ahh, but that too is just a naive dream and fantasy. As is evident from the online space, we humans are far too attached to our delusions and illusions of knowledge, wisdom and understanding, even when it is so exceptionally obvious and clear we are factually and experientially clueless.

Georgy you mentioned you are born in an atheist home. As an atheist what are your views on the creation? Do you believe in the Big Bang? How did this universe come into existence? And do you feel there is anything superior to yourself?

Hi “j”,
You write, amongst other profoundly dubious and incoherent defenses of Trump and his various delusions, fantasies and outright lies: “Or perhaps sporting a mask is like wearing a turban. Omg, don’t leave home with it! Without the Fauci Face Diaper ou’ll be a social pariah, a renegade, a desecrator of all that is holy.”.
Hehe. Oh dear. Khalil Gibran once wrote “I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.” I have to be honest “j”, you have been a wonderful teacher to me regarding the Cult of Trump, and I am very grateful to you for that 🙂
It’s truly amusing you are trying to insinuate the mindless “religion” here is that of science (not scientism, which simply has not been a factor in the current fast moving COVID crises, where real-world fast moving science is at the fore and not ideology, which needs time) and face masks……when it is beyond clear that it is the mindless Cult of Trump, with all it’s ceaseless disconnection from reality, lies, distortions, mindless and meaningless mantras (“lock her up”, “we need to build a wall” etc), appeal to the basest of emotions and identity, bypassing rationality etc, that is really only explicable by the dynamics and psychology of dangerous cults. Yes, dangerous.
I have spent enough time discussing topics with those brainwashed, indoctrinated and conditioned by cults – the vast majority of which nowhere near as dangerous as the cult of Trump – to not be naive enough to think there is any chance of having a constructive, intelligent, fact based discussion on the subject which would cause you to reconsider your irrational beliefs. However, having had online discussions with you for almost 2 decades and respecting your presence and opinions on the old RSS forum, I am certainly staggered – this is the sense in which I learn from you how cultic beliefs can cause intelligent people to act so irrationally – that you are unable to recognise how your belief in Trump as the Perfect Infallible Lord Saviour of all mankind has caused you to repeatedly make utterly absurd, incoherent and easily proven factually disconnected from reality statements?
This goes back to your posts in support of climate change denial/scepticism based purely on blog posts by a pro-Trump cartoon writer, contradicting the vast majority of scientists who actually know what they’re talking about. At the time what astounded me most was you did not recognise the sheer absurdity of pitting a singular cartoon writer who clearly didn’t know what he was talking about, against 99% of scientific experts (and shamans, visionary travellers, even Gurinder it seems based on his recent videos etc), when it comes to the climate and environment? Because it supported the Saviour Trump’s view, which we know is infallible and we as humanity would be silly to take precautions just in case He may be mistaken, and that scientists, mystics and shamans are actually, for once, in accordance and perhaps right. No, of course not! Trump, mistaken? Unbeliever! We absolutely must risk all life on earth based on this Sant’s random ramblings, he has never been wrong so far about anything, ever!
Since then you have ceaselessly defended indefensible Trumpian absurdities with incoherent and non sequitur arguments, and very often utterly disconnected from reality – like when you posted an article showing “10 great things about Sant Trump”, one of which was that his actions has garnered him and america great respect from the rest of the world, and you posted it at a time when nearly every single country in the world signed a UN mandate or something condemning Trump’s unilateral actions in Isreal and Palestine. Since day one Trump has been nothing short of a figure or ridicule and embarrassment across the entire political spectrum all across Europe, and how badly it reflects on America cannot be expressed verbally, but we will all feel the fall-out over the next few decades; nobody considers USA the world leader anymore. But in the mind of a Trump Cultee, the whole world stands in wonderment and awe at the magical perfection of Sant Trump!! I find it hard to conceive of a delusion further disconnected from reality, yet so easily disproved, than this. Yet this will not deter Trumpians from believing!
And here we are now, like a typical brainwashed cult member, you are claiming anyone who disagrees with you is the brainwashed cult member, even though all the evidence points in the other direction and the claim doesn’t even make sense applied to Fauci,it is pure Freudian projection…..and more importantly, the virulent and rage-filled (pun intended, on multiple levels 🙂 antagonism to what should be rather simple and inoffensive guideliness, like wearing a mask, reveal the real emotional root of this situation in USA. It is not as if people are being drafted to join armies to fight wars on foreign soils (or dodging the draft, like Sant Trump did…….still, at least he managed to win the Vietnam war single handed, or at least I presume his followers believe so).
There is a reason countries in Asia like South Korea, China, Singapore etc have managed to flatten the curve so very rapidly……and you will note they all wear masks. They are not silly. USA and it’s leadership, on the other hand, is looking very, very silly to the rest of the world right now. The face mask isn’t Fauci’s invention, recommendation or holy symbol – Fauci is simply a representative of a general consensus of medical and scientific experts. Your inability, “j”, to recognise that is due to your clearly being brainwashed into the mindless cult of Trump. Whatever he says, you will agree with, and whoever disagrees with him, you will make inane and meaningless criticisms of. The depth of this absurdity has already been plumbed – he knows more about the economy, race-relations, law enforcement, the environment, climate change, health and viruses than all the world’s experts combined – and he manages to pull all this off without ever showing any hint he has ever read any book on anything, or demonstrating an IQ higher than my shoe size. Quite some feat……perhaps he is a Perfect Living Master after all?
What did you expect when you voted in a leader whose only platform is hate, division, fear & greed?
Be happy Trumpians, you wanted a wall; now the rest of the world had banned your citizens from entering their countries. There’s your wall.
How safe do you feel now?

Anything else?
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 02, 2020 at 01:33 AM
I like toast with Marmite too. Just bought a jar yesterday at my favorite store, World Market. It felt so good to walk around and feel like the world was “normal” again. Even though that’s a terrible illusion because COVID-19 is here to stay.
Fair is fair. I’ll concede to that.
Hope you get a chance to read Manjit’s comment. I couldn’t have possibly, not in a month of Sundays, said it better myself.
When I visit South Africa I get to enjoy fresh home grown produce. It isn’t always as pretty or perfect looking as what we have on display in our American stores (because all we care about are appearances) but tastes so much better! And it’s so much healthier!
Well all that is changing for South Africa, Europe and most likely in the land down under. Now that you’re incorporating corporate farming practices you’ll get more and more frankenfoods, more preservatives (most new preservatives are built into the actual packaging itself).
So, because the modern diet is so toxic and healthy foods aren’t so healthy or natural anymore, it’s important to take things like probiotics and vitamins/minerals. If you ever go vegetarian you might seriously want to start eating seaweed or nori OR you could take Spirulina and Chlorella to make sure you’re getting all of your Omega 3s.
I’m surprised you aren’t subscribing to the old school scientific belief that humans evolved to be carnivores. Vitamin B12? Omega 3 and Omega 6?
Would you or would you not agree that you have a very rigid mindset? (Be careful, that puts you at far greater risk for developing Alzheimer’s).

@Georgy, don’t worry I’m not going to talk about your guru anymore. I’ll just keep my guard up and wish you the best.

Howdy Other Jen
Father out-an-our atheist, mother more spiritual. I probably was atheistic/agnostic, but I’m not anymore. I consider religion total rubbish, but have mellowed a bit. If it gives ppl comfort, I’m not going to try take that away. As long as it’s not foisted on me, fine.
Creation is a mystery, but I think the scientific explanation for creation (ie the Big Bang) is still vastly better than any other. What do you you is a better explanation.
However I can definitely understand those who feel the Big Bang theory is still very incomplete. Unlike many physicists, I don’t believe that questions like what came before or caused the Big Bang are meaningless at all. They are the biggest questions and science doesn’t come close to answer this.
As for superiority, many if not most things are superior to me. Actually the atheist view might be that we humans are positively inferior. It was religion who thought humans were special and the earth the Centre of the solar system. It’s only with modem science we realized that the sun, not the earth, is the Centre of our solar system. In universal terms, earth is the 3rd rock from the sun orbiting an exceptional star, amount millions of others in an unexceptional outer part of our galaxy in an unexceptional galaxy.
We are animals, hairless apes, who don’t have many if any superior physical traits, except for our intelligence. I suspect in such a big universe it is likely that there are far more intelligent species than ours that have evolved to be top of the food chain on other planets.
We’ve only existed as a species for a short time, with many others coming and going before us. For most of the existence of our short-lived species, most of us have died way before adulthood. Even if we’re lucky we lead lives that are 80 -100 revolutions around the sun, an eye-blink in time. 99,99% of all the hairless apes that have existed aren’t even remembered and you and me won’t be in a generation or two. As an atheist, there is no afterlife or greater existential meaning during life, so the atheist veiwpoint is about as bleak and grounded as you can get. Whether it’s right or not is another issue.
As a humanist, I don’t like the belief that one tribe or group or even individual is superior to another based on stupid things like colour, creed or sexual tastes.
So in short, no I don’t think I’m superior. Probably lower than dust.

@Georgy, I lied, I am going to say something more about your guru.
So, here it is—about 18 months ago I asked him a question about suicide and his answer put me in such a tailspin that I was literally seconds from taking my own life that evening. (I wonder what he would have thought if I had died that night. Probably, “she deserved it”.)
Then a few weeks ago he’s all “suicide is the most evil thing you can do”.
Full circle.

It’s hard to love someone that you’re pretty certain wants you dead. (Relationships 101)

@manjit
Perfectly well said. 🙏
I read your comment several times (a lot to digest) and I appreciate all of it.
“there is a deeper absurdity, that of mindless deference to the cultural dominant of scientism, that there is no such thing as medicine unless it is an artificial pharmaceutical which has had millions of dollars of “double-blind peer reviewed research” on it. Or the even deeper, but far more complex absurdity of the notion of health as being an entirely materialist reductive problem, an ideology where happiness can be purchased for the price of an artificial pharmaceutical that one is dependant on for life.“
Amen to that!
My GENIUS package should be arriving any minute now. I’ll let you know… I’m super sensitive to all substances. It’s like there’s something seriously impaired with my BBB. That’s why I want to test it on my guinea pig. But he’s more sensitive than I am. It’s just he doesn’t have the same scary neural pathways that I have (which I’m trying to avoid being activated).

Sonia,
Hmmm, a rigid mindset you say.
How many scientific atheists do you know who have adopted a spiritual stance? Not the other way around.
I’m open-minded, but not so open-minded as that my mind falls out. I don’t simply believe in every fad or conspiracy theory that comes along, or any other unsubstantiated rubbish.
I’m not a flake or fool, so yeah if that’s what you mean by being rigid, then fine I am rigid. I believe one should use your brain to discriminate between truth and fiction.
Hinesey Ji’s commandments won’t allow me to post if I give my honest views on Manjit, so I will have to hold my tongue.

But Sonia, excuse my rigidity, but wtf are you even worried about Spirulina in your diet if you are borderline suicidal?
I mean is it just me that’s lost my marbles when I read this …

Georgy Porgy wrote: “Hinesey Ji’s commandments won’t allow me to post if I give my honest views on Manjit, so I will have to hold my tongue.”
Now now Georgy Porgy, no need to hide behind Sir Hines’ blog rules, this is an open thread remember. I hereby give my full permission for you to let loose. Don’t worry, I won’t hold it against you 🙂
You write: “Anything else” and then “I’m not a flake or fool”.
Well, okay, yes, actually, there is something else Georgy “I have absolutely no connection to Gurinder or RSSB” Porgy; What is your age, your background, and how precisely did you come across Gurinder and RSSB? In other words, what exactly is your family connection to RSSB and why do you hide behind obscurity, ambiguity and outright deception? These are simple and basic foundations of decent, honest and mature discussion. It is evident after many months of your posting here you have no interest in sharing any “sat” about yourself (despite clearly being a follower of the religion of “sat”gurus, “sat”sang, “sat”nam etc), these basic foundations of sincere communication, yet have the temerity to criticise, judge and indeed mock posters here who share so openly, so vulnerably their own lives – showing their decent, sincere hearts – those here who clearly have far more experience of RSSB and Gurinder than you, all whilst you yourself hide behind pseudonyms, pure anonymity and deceptions about your own background and association with RSSB etc.
It is beyond obvious – there simply is very little chance any genuinely impartial objective person would consider the bland, non-descript “satsangs” of Gurinder, a guy for whom the only apparent reason for his position is nepotism, a guy clearly heavily involved with greed, fraud and other unpleasantry which no impartial person – by which I mean unrelated by family to the religion, or aged 60+ and involved with the religion for decades – could ever portray Gurinder and his bland teachings and presence as you do. So why don’t you admit your actual relationship to this religion and major player in a huge fraud trial?
It is an absolutely absurd situation.
As is your irrational blind belief that Gurinder cares (or even knows) about posters here, or the notion that any and all advice he gives could be nothing but supremely helpful and beneficial simply by sheer fact of his position (inherited via family will….I never realised wisdom and mystical knowledge was vouchsafed this way?), and that anyone who contradicts it would obviously be negative and bad advice.
This is pure delusional cultic nonsense.
Gurinder does try, but he is a fool and an ass. His position gives him far more confidence in his own views than is warranted by reality. His lack of compassion, wisdom, tact and kindness when it comes to issues like mental health and suicide really very telling, regardless of the mindless defence of anything and everything he says by devoted satsangis, no less delusional than acolytes of Trump, the cognitive dissonance must be quite difficult to live with.
He is so confused, I somewhat want to educate him on his foolish and incoherent views, that no doubt are mindlessly believed by his followers despite even a cursory examination of them showing them clearly to be utterly meaningless drivel 🙂
In his recent series of Q&A videos, Gugu has repeatedly extolled the absolute dominance of “karma” in our lives. I think somewhat prior to those videos, I posted this random screed on the baseless concept of juridical karma as a driver for transmigration or metempsychosis, which is so thoroughly indoctrinated into our world-view that we can no longer see it’s edges, so unquestioned this intellectual concept has become in so many minds across the world: https://groups.io/g/RadhasoamiStudies/message/203288 https://groups.io/g/RadhasoamiStudies/message/203342 https://groups.io/g/RadhasoamiStudies/message/203522
Now, I fully suspect the concept of juridical karma is so deeply indoctrinated in the intellectual world-view, that these posts will not make any sense to the vast majority of readers here.
So I will try to simplify and re-apply to the incoherency of Gurinder’s views on karma, and by virtue of that the absurdity of his defenders on forums like this who believe defending the cult of RSSB is more important than treating people who admirably open up their flaws & vulnerabilities – like Sonia, Osho R or Spence etc – with DUE respect, kindness and tact.
In the first Gugu video I believe, Gurinder clearly states all our life circumstances are pre-destined by our karma, up to and including the moment and means of death. Further, there is absolutely no possible violation of these “karmas”, regardless of how much bhakti or grace we may receive.
In further videos, he clarifies that what can change is our inner reaction to karmas, to life’s events, through our meditation, but not the karmas themselves.
Sounds reasonable, no? At this point, I imagine many thousands of satsangis nodding their heads, imagining they’ve learnt something wise and profound, simply because the great grandson of some other dude in a turban they’ve never met but read loads of books about said so.
The problem is, no, this really, really isn’t reasonable – it is actually profoundly incoherent and meaningless.
You see, dear beloveds, if you can change your inner reaction to “karmas” and life’s events……then you obviously also change your outer reaction to those events, which by cause and effect extension, will change your future life circumstances. Therefore it is exceptionally unlikely you will die from, say gang violence, opioid overdose or suicide if you make the choice to pursue meditation and a life of spirituality, via which you became calmer, more peaceful, less reactive to anger, absent of fear, hatred, bigotry and prejudice etc (and, btw, this really can and does happen to people, for absolute certain…..despite what several nihilists may say, people can change if they have the conscious intent to do so).
So it is absolutely clear that Gurinder’s distinction between karma and our inner state is a false dichotomy, a mental and conceptual dogma mistaken for some aspect of reality itself, but that obviously makes no practical sense if even a little critical thought is applied to his incessant ramblings on karma 🙂 His view is actually a confused nihilistic one, but one that adds in the incoherent “spiritual” aspect of meditation being able to change your “inner reaction or state” without having any effect whatsoever on your material circumstances……as if you could attain inner peace, happiness and love, yet beat someone to death for looking at you strange……that was just karma, after all!
Absurd and incoherent.
So, to hear Gurinder tactlessly, judgmentally (Kal, anyone?) and patently unskillfully & unhelpfully call suicide a “sin”…..when only two videos back he was saying our mode and time of death is predestined and unviolable – more unacknowledged confusion and contradiction, you’ll note – is pretty darn unpleasant….and then to hear anonymous RSSB apologists defend this heartless dogma directly in the face of brave and courageous people who have opened up about their struggles with mental health, is an absolute disgrace imo.
This is what cults do, they close you down to reality, and open you up to heartless, joyless, compassionless lives, full of judgement, anger and fear.
But, to each their own I suppose…..

But Sonia, excuse my rigidity, but wtf are you even worried about Spirulina in your diet if you are borderline suicidal?
I mean is it just me that’s lost my marbles when I read this …
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 02, 2020 at 12:20 PM
I’m not suicidal NOW, you idiot. 😂
I was back in Dec 2018 after I realized that I was farther from God than I ever knew.
That was crash test epiphany. Not fun. Not easy on the brain.

Georgy,
You’re 100% right I have know right to slander anyone including the guru. I was devastated in 2018 at Dera. Nothing will ever affect me like that again because I have my guard up. Worst case scenario I get hurt enough that I decide it’s best for me not to watch the Q&As. End of story.
I’ve actually said a lot of good things and objective things about the guru as well. But slander is wrong in any book. I guess it just boils down to my karmic relationship with him but I’m not going to say anything negative anymore because quite frankly it’s hurting me more than anyone else.

I sit in meditation because it’s literally the ONLY thing that takes away my craving for alcohol. It increases the autoimmune symptoms but that’s just because alcohol inhibits the immune system which ironically diminishes the symptoms you get from an autoimmune disease. I guess because it works as sort of an immunosuppressant but at the expense of the rest of your physical and mental health. So, I reckon it’s better to save my soul/mind than to save my body. 🙂
I am a sensitive person, therefore better to avoid any triggers. I’m best if I just do meditation and avoid satsang and Q&A and Dera and anything else that might upset me to where I don’t want to do my meditation.
Like they say, meditation first.

@manjit
I agree with what you wrote. It is what all metaphysical traditions teach:
“You see, dear beloveds, if you can change your inner reaction to “karmas” and life’s events……then you obviously also change your outer reaction to those events, which by cause and effect extension, will change your future life circumstances.”
It really confuses me (it blows my mind actually) that people can separate thought from action or effect. It just simply isn’t possible imo. “Thoughts are things.” Thoughts are the building blocks for all actions.

@ So, to hear Gurinder tactlessly, judgmentally (Kal, anyone?) and patently
@ unskillfully & unhelpfully call suicide a “sin”…..when only two videos back he
@ was saying our mode and time of death is predestined and unviolable –
@ more unacknowledged confusion and contradiction, you’ll note – is pretty
@ darn unpleasant
Hm, judgments are breaking out all over town 😉 What mystic
would condone suicide as just a matter of kismet. No matter
what’s foregone, they still strive to play along encouraging
hope and making every effort to prevent death including
suicide. It’s a human thing.
So that means discouraging suicide since we customarily
accept the notion we make choices and therefore are
appropriately accountable for outcomes. Should a mystic
substitute a less freighted word than “sin”? Probably.
But if he’d said “Bad” or a “regrettable loss of a precious
human life”, would it have satisfied critics? Probably not.
They’d cite the suffering of the terminally ill, or, mention
the sensibility of cultures whose elders drown themselves
when they can’t pull their weight, or tediously parse the
nuances of “Bad”, “Sin”, “regrettable”.
To counsel it’s all predestined and nothing really matters
would garner brickbats… or a nuthouse referral. Even that’s
written in ink somewhere. Next time, the message will be
more hopeful. See, it works out in the end. How could it
not?

Covid is a hoax, and this sort of thing https://twitter.com/dan9700/status/1278761028386541570 happens literally every day in America multiple times yet you’ll never read about it anywhere.
You are in a cult. Just like Constantine forced everyone to be Christian essentially,
so too are you all being forced to believe in these insane things that have no basis in reality. Things like “white supremacy” and “racism” and “the patriarchy.” Did it not occur to you that when your views almost 100% align with everything every single multinational corporation spews that maybe you weren’t thinking for yourself?
Watch it once again. This is your future, because you’re stupid- https://twitter.com/dan9700/status/1278761028386541570

Manjit, didn’t read your whole comment, but your weird screed about borders and shit should be directed at Brian. He once said it was the only thing he agreed with Trump about.
I’m not sure why people like war. Open borders means more violence. Literally always.

@Manjit
Thanks so much for your comments. 🙂

@ His view is actually a confused nihilistic one, but one that adds in the
@ incoherent “spiritual” aspect of meditation being able to change your
@ “inner reaction or state” without having any effect whatsoever on your
@ material circumstances……as if you could attain inner peace, happiness
@ and love, yet beat someone to death for looking at you strange……that
@ was just karma, after all!
Weirdly, that’s the nature of karma. The reverse happens too.
Violence can suddenly, stunningly transform into peaceableness.
Adultery into faithfulness. Greed into charity. But what transfixes
us is devolution: ordinary people on a plane who beat an unruly
passenger, off his meds, to death. Rings of priests engaged in
wholesale pedophilia. A nation that inexplicably sanctions and
joins in mass murder.
We want a different narrative. A spirituality without devolution.
Without a nasty system of karma. One that rescues good people
from this vipers’ pit and empowers them through righteous action
and living to mold “this sorry scheme” to something that comports
with our vision.
Unfortunately, the only way out of karma is in. You don’t dissolve it
with more action but through awareness. The karma is unchanged.
You rise above it. And that’s when eyes glaze over and you object
“Yeah, yeah awareness huh. What about that deacon who killed
his wife and kids. Hey, reminds me, didya hear about that swami
who was doin’ the dirty with underage chicks. Don’t tell me his
karma made him do it. Can he levitate himself outta jail!”

But hey believe what you must. If it makes you feel better about yourself, I won’t interfere. I get the feeling you’re more about telling yourself warm fuzzy stories and believing, rather than wanting the truth warts and all. Big difference. No kissy kissy kum ba yah group hugs for me. If it helps you, good, but I don’t think it does. Just my opinion.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 01, 2020 at 11:14 PM
You’re greatly mistaken. I make tremendous concessions every day to maintain my longtime friendships and family relationships. You have no idea. And I don’t begrudge having to do so because I know that almost every person, despite any undesirable traits they may have, is a good person at heart. Like with my husband. He takes such good care of my parents. He suffers severe PTSD and all of the things that come with that I’m willing to make adjustments and concessions for. If you want a strong and lasting, meaningful relationship with anyone you have to accept them fully. Encourage the good and work around the bad with a positive outlook—allow that person to change in their own time. Believe in others and be patient.

If global warming reaches a level where temp is 60 degree C , it can wipe out most of mankind. Some cunning person will give the argument of air conditioner, but at that temperature it can make electrical equipment dysfunctional.

“Earlier this year, Indonesia announced its plans to move the capital city away from Jakarta. Home to over ten million people, some parts of Jakarta are sinking as much as 25cm per year. Jakarta’s precarious position is thanks to a combination of two factors – rising global sea levels and land subsidence as underground water supplies have been drained away to meet water needs.
This grim picture is repeated elsewhere too. In the Pacific, at least eight islands were swallowed by the sea in the last century, with Tuvalu, Kiribati and the Marshall Islands feared to be the next low-lying nations to be wiped off the map.“

Scientists estimate dozens of species of plants and animals currently go extinct each day —nearly 1,000 times the natural rate. By mid-century, as many as 30 to 50 percent of the total species found on Earth will have disappeared.

Well, my mushrooms are running late. Amazon apologized but couldn’t give any specifics other than it should be here tomorrow. Hopefully.
Genius Mushroom – Lions Mane, Cordyceps and Reishi – Immune System Booster & Nootropic Brain Supplement – Wellness Formula for Natural Energy, Stress Relief, Memory & Liver Support, 90 Veggie Pills
The thing is, I take plenty-o-allopathic prescriptions daily and it helps to try to boost your immune system with alternative meds. (Pharmaca is my second favorite store).
We had a vegan co-op in Knoxville, TN that was better than any co-op in Boulder or anywhere else I’ve lived. And they were cheap! It was so earthy and heavenly natural smelling. Ahh… not everything was better in the good ol’ days but somethings definitely were.
Our co-op here has been around since 1972 and is more expensive than Whole Foods. How are people supposed to stay healthy??
I’m curious if any of you in other countries have better access to affordable healthy, non GMO, pesticide free fresh foods and herbs and supplements. ??

Its a strange world. I watched a lot of youtube videos of the Black Lives Matter protests and at the same time thinking why now? Certainly no social distancing happening.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/13/us/george-floyd-protests-cities-photos.html
The demonstrators — black, brown, white, a mix of fed-up first-timers and veterans who had marched many times on those same streets — could not be stopped.
Not the risk of contracting Covid-19, not the tweets from a president who threatened military might, not a tornado in Florida or a tropical storm in North Carolina.

Georgy, I hope you watch 011. There are a lot of important lessons in there for you.

Not the risk of contracting Covid-19, not the tweets from a president who threatened military might, not a tornado in Florida or a tropical storm in North Carolina.
Posted by: Jen | July 03, 2020 at 08:51 PM
Yes, it’s truly mind boggling. Is it really that difficult for people to practice social distancing, wear masks and wash their hands? People act so put out by it but look at America’s COVID stats!
There was a movie out in 2006 starring Luke Wilson called ‘Idocracy’. Here’s the trailer: https://youtu.be/clYwX8Z43zg
Some days after reading the news it feels like we’re living in 2505.

“Life is a series of workarounds.”
—Life
“Luminous beings are we…not this crude matter.”
—Yoda

Georgy, I hope you watch 011. There are a lot of important lessons in there for you.
Posted by: Sonia | July 03, 2020 at 10:39 PM
Can’t keep away can you?

I’m objective and I’ll give credit where credit is due. GSD said something utterly brilliant in 011 which opened the door to a new world for me. He said if everyone got what they wanted the world would be chaos.
That may sound like a simple statement but it’s actually quite profound and I’ve never heard it put like that before. Here in America and so many first world countries where Capitalism reigns supreme, there has long been the ideal that the power of intention will get you whatever you want. We shy away from Stoic philosophy and refuse to appreciate the power and true gift of peace, calm and gratitude that acceptance brings.
There was something so reassuring and enlightening about that statement. Especially since he said it without any sort of judgement. (It’s always easier to digest a new concept when it’s said objectively.)

Can’t keep away can you?
Posted by: Other Jen | July 04, 2020 at 09:06 AM
Haha… are you just now figuring that out? I’ve never been a fake person. If I don’t agree with something I’ll say so… and I’m fine with admitting I’m wrong too. I’m not a follower or friend to anyone just because of what they may be able to do for me. I care about the truth. But I’m beginning to believe the best analogy for truth in this world is a treasure map. The treasure is there but you have to do a lot of digging to get to it. Sure, some find it easier than others. But it’s not a race, is it?

Hi Jen!
In all those BLM pictures they wore masks.
In contrast, at the white Republican racist gatherings they don’t wear masks. They have no understanding of basic hygiene during a pandemic nor basic citizenship.
https://youtu.be/_CcBeQAq2DI

Manjit
I enjoyed reading your juridical karma article. I agree that it is your best writing.
It struck a chord, the notion of rebirth as a common occurrence.
I have spent a lot of time believing in God, then changing my mind.
When I imagine the size of the Universe, with its vast array of stars, galaxies, black holes and other wonders, to limit life to this one singular planet seems absurd.
It makes me question why did God bother to create the rest of the Universe?
Add to this, the different religions around the world, each with their own saviour, specific only to the believers of that particular God.
Recently, I’ve been listening to Sylosis. Conclusion of an Age and Edge of the Earth albums. To me the songs are about a Godless life and Godless death.
A Godless life, a Godless death. Maybes a rebirth into another human body. How cool is that.

Hi Spence, yes I did notice that most of them were wearing masks. So much turmoil in the world today.
Every morning and afternoon I go for a walk near the ocean and a river nearby. I think its keeping me alive and well. I’m not very good at meditating but I do believe and feel the healing power of nature.
https://aeon.co/essays/why-forests-and-rivers-are-the-most-potent-health-tonic-around
“Colorado River guides know that nature enhances our physical and mental lives. ‘For decades, I’ve believed that I’m part of nature,’ Winn says, ‘not separate from it or “above” it. Many years ago, I studied Zen Buddhism and learned to meditate. Eventually I found that just hanging out on desert rivers had the same effect as meditation – no stress’.”

Hi
Beautifully stated
“Eventually I found that just hanging out on desert rivers had the same effect as meditation – no stress’.”
When you are in the center, nothing in heaven or earth is a greater treasure.

Sonia you flip flop a lot that’s what confuses me. But your right it’s not a race, just in the process don’t hurt others and speak ill of anyone that’s all u recommend. Happy treasure hunting 😊

Sonia you flip flop a lot that’s what confuses me. But your right it’s not a race, just in the process don’t hurt others and speak ill of anyone that’s all u recommend. Happy treasure hunting 😊
Posted by: The other jen | July 05, 2020 at 09:59 AM
The battle between my mind and my heart… I’m pretty much done flopping, though. It’s taken two years to work through some very serious issues. Not sure why we don’t learn things quicker. It seems no matter how hard we try there seems to be a certain order of events that have to play out in time.

One of the most difficult things to adjust to is that when we move away from Sant Mat and have stopped believing in the guru we start to realise that we are now functioning on our own accord. This is when the ego will try to be more powerful because we are taking back our own personal power and at the same time we are trying to be humble and gracious and this will create confusion. I’m an old gal now and a Dylan Thomas poem comes to my mind…
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good light…
https://poets.org/poem/do-not-go-gentle-good-night

Strange and interesting typo, should be good night… not good light !!

Ahh… my link was bad. I posted a while back showing Marshall. Here he is trying to play with the baby Robin. This was just before the bird was strong enough to fly away.
https://twitter.com/marshal03068516/status/1279942838965481472?s=21

@ Because their words had forked no lightning they
@ Do not go gentle into that good light…
@@ “Strange and interesting typo, should be good night… not good light !!”
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good light…
Listen not to promises from within that
no shadows remain, to whispers all
will be well. Rage at a light that turns
to night.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Hold fast to the eternal light.

I hate to break it to you but Marshall is going to chomp that bird as an appetizer before you can even say wtf.

I hate to break it to you but Marshall is going to chomp that bird as an appetizer before you can even say wtf.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 06, 2020 at 12:22 AM
Ha!
See, that’s what some people think. I never would have let him near the bird if I thought he might harm him. Marshall is the one who found the bird when we were out walking really late one night. He was sooo excited when I decided to bring it home. He was prancing around like he’d gotten a new toy.
Marshall was given to us by a woman who owned a farm and had chickens. He kept killing her chickens so the lady was going put him down. (I’m not so sure she was all that nice to him, though.) Anyway, she’s the one that named him after the Marshall on Gunsmoke. So, I have been wanting to get another Rottweiler girl pup and name her Kitty.
Marshall killed a few critters in our back yard a week or two after he first arrived with us. I was like “Noooo” (in a very scary & convincing way) and it never happened again.
After he calmed down enough for us to move him inside the house he transformed into the most gentle creature ever. He literally reads minds. I’m not even joking. It’s weird. I never have to “train him” he pretty much just listens to me talking (sometimes we have to spell words out because he learns the meanings pretty quickly 😆). He also reads facial expressions and body language. A lot of my pets have been like that. Except for a one cat who plays dumb or actually is. It’s hard to tell sometimes. I worry about him…
Marshall loves and adores, babies and children and little dogs and little furry critters. Never met a dog like him—not even close.
He’s different. He really is. 🤩
I guess the bottom line is he knows better (he knows I would have freaked out). But he just really wants a little friend, which is why we need to get a Rottweiler girl puppy.
I’m kinda nuts about him (in case you can’t tell).

Bloomin ‘eck Manjit, just looked at the link to your RSS posts. Such Rapscalliousnous 🙂 I enjoyed the read and recommend it to any of the readers here (if they haven’t checked it out), as another thought provoking, cogent and interesting post – ‘Souls’ and ‘karma’ – two of my favourite topics, with interpretations completely assumed as correct by unquestioning followers, particularly the Sant Mat variety.
I’ve cut and pasted a few of Manjit’s points/views (M) with some response comment from me:
M – “The mechanics of karma, in Radhasoami dogma, are described in the juridical and retributive sense”.
Me – so it seems. While I no longer believe myself to be ‘driven’ by karma I remember how as a ‘conforming’ RSSB person initially I never really questioned why the teachings were presented (and it looks like they still are) in this way. At the time I thought the Sant Mat path was the royal road and ‘highest’ of all paths. Why question the teachings? The other initially unquestioned belief and a view that most of us were brought up to believe is that we ‘have’ a soul. These days I’m more inclined to consider soul as what we actually are i.e. we ‘are’ soul, we don’t have one.
Waking up involves realising this more imo.
M – “I’ve been paying attention to this religion [RSSB] and it’s followers for 3 decades now, and I have never even heard or seen so much as a whiff of supporting “evidence” from the inner experiences of any initiate. I mean I’ve heard of alleged experiences of a few “previous lives” (which, by the way, almost always examples of resonant karma, continuation of traits and interests, but containing no evidence of juridical karma which is how karma is actually defined in RS and Indian/Buddhist metaphysics generally….”
Me – Interesting point especially in regard to how internal experiences in the RSSB tradition (from my memory of the teachings) have definitely little to say about how karma operates. I guess such revelations are reserved for those who actually go beyond the mind in a way where they can see all their so-called former mental self creations. This to me would be pretty much an awakened state. Free from the ‘karma affected’ contracted self.
Which brings me back to my view that karma is something that affects mind/body not the so-called ‘soul’. Soul is more about expansion of consciousness not the karma drama dharma that affects these isolated ‘selves’.
With regard to karma and ‘reincarnation’ here are a couple of interesting viewpoints. The first is from Eckhart Tolle at around 5 mins in he says:
‘You can observe reincarnation in yourself many times during the day when you identify with a thought …’
https://youtu.be/FVu6yU2plAo
This other clip although firmly in the Advaitic/vedic camp, introduces a new term I’d never heard of before. I believe it supports my view that the soul (which I consider to be ‘atma’) is not the thing that ‘travels’ (from body to body). What travels is the ‘Sukshma Sharira’ – subtle body. I like how the Swami describes this:
https://youtu.be/Zb1mLzRL3wc
M – “Some scientists speculate that from the moment of conception to becoming a human fetus, the human being goes through the entire evolutionary process from single cell organism to human being via all our past ancestors. This suggests we all contain within us some neuro-biological traces – and by speculative implication trace “memories” – of all these other “incarnations” that life has gone through to evolve to us, and if not directly “through”, then related via genetic potentiality.”
Me – another really interesting perspective: 9 months – single cell to baby human – very much like an evolutionary process. Which scientists are suggesting this Manjit?
Best wishes to all

“Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny,” biogenetic law of yesteryear…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recapitulation_theory

Hi Dungeness! You write: “Should a mystic substitute a less freighted word than “sin”? Probably.
But if he’d said “Bad” or a “regrettable loss of a precious human life”, would it have satisfied critics? Probably not.”
As somebody who presumably has quite a long and involved relationship/investment with RSSB and their gurus, your various defences of them are totally understandable! I am not sure to what extent anything I write is aimed at people like yourself rather than people less invested, still able to apply relatively independent, critical thought, and are looking into the subject of RS, RSSB, Gurinder etc….ie “seekers”, like I myself once was (the Radhasoamistudies forum back in the late 90s early 2000s was a very valuable resource to me for years before I ever posted) ?
I feel you are at somewhat of a disadvantage in this discussion because you feel you must defend RSSB and Gugu from any and all criticism, regardless of the reality…..so you are so very limited in the potential scope of your argument. Still, if life gives you lemons you make lemonade hey! 🙂 On a personal level, I actually really like Gurinder, the human behind the Wizard’s veil. I think, when it comes to his sangat, he tries his best with the hand he’s been dealt with…..but that he has less tools and resources at his command than his sangat believe. The point is, yes there are far, far more compassionate, tactful, skillful and helpful ways of discussing the subject……I have heard multiple talks given on the subject over the years, most of which although not given by “Perfect Living Masters” were full of grace, compassion, wisdom, insight etc, and entirely absent of judgement in a space where no more judgement is needed for goodness sake! So, as I have no dog in the fight, I am able to state the obvious about Gurinder’s unprompted comments on the subject; they lacked compassion, wisdom, tact, grace or insight. Of course, whatever he says and however he says it can and will easily be rationalised into a far more charitable light, given some mental gymnastics…..speaking of which…..:)
You write: “Unfortunately, the only way out of karma is in. You don’t dissolve it with more action but through awareness. The karma is unchanged. You rise above it.”
Sorry Dungeness, but I see this as a hyper-example of what I stated previously……an attempt to defend the transparently incoherent and meaningless – and this would be absolutely obvious to any impartial observer – and by doing so you unwittingly promote a doctrine of nihilism under the guise of spirituality…….all because your guru and his clumsy, unexamined and unchallenged dogma and doctrine has forced you into this absurd position! If only he didn’t keep giving you lemons, you may have been able to fashion a drink that wasn’t so hard and bitter to swallow 🙂
I really don’t actually know how to make my original point any clearer – it should be beyond obvious, if your a priori beliefs or desire to defend Gugu doesn’t blind you to it; your inner state naturally and obviously effects your behaviour. Very simple and inarguable fact. And your behaviour will naturally and obviously change your future life circumstances. Very simple and inarguable fact. Yet, because Gurinder – whom clearly nobody close to him has ever dared to challenge, even when he makes obviously incoherent and meaningless claims like this about something as fundamental and presumably inviolable as the mechanics of “karma” – has stated something so obviously absurd as “your entire life circumstances are fixed and inviolable, including your method of death”, but that “meditation helps you to deal with these karmas on the inside”, we must wrap ourselves up in the most painful & contorted of conceptual poses with Olympian feats of mental gymnastics!
Even a child knows, one’s “inner state” is immediately reflected in our actions. I truly, truly find it a deep shame that due to Gurinder’s unexamined and poorly thought out dogmatic nihilistic philosophy, that satsangis will never know the joy of totally transforming a situation by the CHOICES they make in any given situation. It is a magical event to behold, a super-power to possess; in a tense, violent situation, in the face of a perceived aggression….to robotically react with conditioned anger, aggression, fear, leading to violence……..OR in that moment to choose to react differently (you need extreme clarity to become aware of the complexity of your situation, go through the available choices of action to take, and pick the appropriate one to disrupt the flow of “energy” in a situation, all within a split second, to be fair :)……make a joke, laugh, smile, pay a compliment to someone……and to tangibly sense the energy in a room change to lightness, laughter, love……these are miracles apparently not open to RSSB satsangis. They absolutely are destined to react with anger, and be murdered….still, at least on the inside they were feeling love and compassion even if they reacted with petty rage, ey? :/
Ironically, in a sense Gurinder is right, but in Gurdjieff sense….when it comes to most human beings and most RS satsangis; they ARE mindless, hypnotised robots, blindly and unquestioningly following their programming and indoctrination. I have said several times over the years, 90%+ of RS followers I have seen online, many of whom for decades, you can predict absolutely everything they will write, do and think, especially in response to any given stimulus/post. More predictable than a Swiss timepiece. I could get somebody to write a piece of AI software that could easily imitate most of these pro RS posters comments and I’m sure most people wouldn’t even notice, so mechanical and in “narrow lanes” they move……..there are posters over on the RSS forum that have been posting and reposting the same 2 posts for more than 20 years, and each time they do it they think it’s original!! So, yes, perhaps for RS satsangis Gurinder is right……it’s all so very predictable and mechanical…….joyless, lifeless, lacking humour, spontaneity etc…..”hey you, don’t get spontaneous with us, we’ll punch you in the face and break your glasses, we’re senior sevadars don’t you know”. Yes, mindless robots following their programming.
Hi Jesse! You wrote :”Covid is a hoax”
Oh dear. Whilst I understand your Master Sant Trump Ji has insinuated this absurd claim, you really should try and broaden your circle of information from the delusional misinformation, highly selective and non-representational “news” and outright lies your Guru and his handlers are drip, drip feeding gullible and naive folks like yourself. Like most of Trump’s bizarre lies and delusions, they are easily disproven by extending one’s reality from outside of forums populated exclusively by humourless, joyless, angry testosterone fuelled, sexually frustrated, racist men which go into absolute meltdown every time a black lesbian is spotted in a TV show or movie (“I give this terrrible movie 0/10, it is PC gone mad, makes no sense, terrible acting, it’s pure rubbish. I mean I haven’t seen this movie, but it contains a woman as a lead so…..”), and which think humourless memes are actually news articles. My cousin in Canada (2nd in her class at John Hopkins) is dealing with this crises at a senior level – I am no further than 2 links away from personally knowing around a dozen people that have died or nearly died from COVID-19….indeed everyone I know who has a large circle of friends and families knows multiple people who have been seriously affected by this virus. Your claim it is a “hoax” is as delusional, obviously false, dangerous, head stuck up your own ass etc as your own Guru’s comments are. You make a wonderful disciple, well done!! 🙂 🙂 Idiocracy-Yuga is upon us!
Hi Michael – thanks for your thoughtful response! You write: “I have spent a lot of time believing in God, then changing my mind.”
Haha…that seems eminently sane & intelligent to me. I know I’m not dealing with a robot when I hear that 🙂
You write: “When I imagine….It makes me question why did God bother to create the rest of the Universe?
…..A Godless life, a Godless death. Maybes a rebirth into another human body. How cool is that.”
Good questions. I consider religions and some metaphysical belief systems like RS to be obviously extremely anthropocentric, but in the sense humans are but a very small slither of creation and reality whereas these beliefs place us at the center of it all. I’ve just read earlier today, and I’ve mentioned it before too, that we “human beings” too are made up of billions of individual biological cells – indeed, we are apparently just colonies of bacteria!! (I really, really love reading this kind of science without all the scientism overlay….pure science, to me, reveals just how truly magnificent, magical and mysterious creation and life really is!). When all these bacteria come together, a new gestalt called the “human soul” or “me” arises….and goes about proceeding to place itself as the centre of the universe, believing itself to be an individual “soul” somehow disconnected to all the “other souls” out there. A wonderful fantasy, but only of it’s time and place, the very limited human condition!
The other day a profound thought occurred to me which may or may not be original (it felt original!); the difference between a seeker and a realiser is this – the seeker seeks the meaning to the question of life and creation. The realiser sees life and creation as the ANSWER. In other words, only the human ego, planted in duality and cut off from its root, seeks an answer to life and creation, but in actuality life and creation is itself it’s own meaning and purpose. It is the Divine in motion, so to speak, but it is a Dance one can only behold if one can transcend the limited and limiting human ego…..and in that Dance, ALL creation is held dearly, even the lowliest amoeba is the fullest expression of that divinity….not just initiates of the correct be-turbaned Sant from the Punjab.
I’ve never heard of Sylosis, I’ll check them out, thanks 🙂 I’m not sure I’ve alienated enough people recently, so to aid myself in that regards, this is the kind of outer music I love: https://youtu.be/HbdYyBeof6M Now this is what you can call celestial strains penetrating the physical 🙂
Hey Tim – thanks for your comments dear fellow! In regards your question “Which scientists are suggesting this Manjit?”. The current field this is being research in is “evolutionary developmental biology” or “evo-devo” for short. I found this article that goes through the history of the science: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12052-012-0418-x Anami mentions above the historical roots of this, stated as the so called “ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny”, but that science was debunked a long while ago (something like the guy, Haeckel, made up hand drawn cartoons to support his point or some such!). But as the new field of “evo-devo” is showing us, there is quite a lot of truth still contained therein. As this quote from the Berkeley.edu website on evolution states “Embryos do reflect the course of evolution, but that course is far more intricate and quirky than Haeckel claimed.” https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/history_15
Re. sukshma sharira, you should have heard of this in RS – it’s corresponds, more or less, to the western/theosophical concept of “astral body”, or the body which views the thousand lights of Niranjan in RS?! Don’t let’s get into a discussion of the cross correspondences of the different “chakras”, “bodies” and “regions” as has evolved through time to get us to the Theosophical-RS hybrid cosmology we have now!! 🙂 This is a good entry point into the subject if one is interested, though: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rainbow-Body-History-Western-Blavatsky/dp/0892542195 Safe to say, all these cosmologies and doctrines – much like that of karma and transmigration – clearly evolve and change through time. And then we have people on forums like this defend the particular version of neo-cosmology they have been taught, like RS, as if it is actually a superior and unique divine revelation and insight that magically appeared in a conceptual vacuum thousands of years ago and has remained with us perennially unchanged 🙂
Thanks for the video links, I’ll check them out 🙂 Just yesterday the following NDE video appeared in my youtube recommended list…I hadn’t watched an NDE video for a while, but out of curiosity clicked the link….it is a very enjoyable 23 minutes and well worth listening to the obviously sincere recollection of an NDE experiencer: https://youtu.be/R8o2rcWldWk
We all know the Indo-Buddhic doctrines of karma, bondage and transmigration as they have evolved and passed down to us through religions like RS (although there have been significant deviations from this life-denying and narrow doctrine even in India, such as Kashmiri Shaivism, which took great delight in the sheer ecstasy of embodied reality, and which it cannot be emphasised enough is the school of practices from which shabd yoga as we know it today evolved). The belief in karma has become so ingrained I believe people are unable to think outside or beyond this concept, so unquestioned it’s acceptance that every action or event is somewhat meaninglessly framed in these terms, “it’s karma”, which really means nothing at all.
But the question is, just what evidence do we have to support it BEYOND the empty and hollow words of Indo-Buddhic mystics during their lesser moments – their peak moments were always marked by denial of karma, transmigration etc, like when Kabir said:
“Pandit, you’ve got it wrong.
There’s no creator or creation there,
no gross or fine, no wind or fire,
no sun, moon, earth or water,
no radiant form, no time there,
no word, no flesh, no faith,
no cause and effect, nor any thought
of the Veda. No Hari or Brahma,
no Shiva or Shakti, no pilgrimage
and no rituals. No mother, father
or guru there. Is it two or one?
Kabir says, if you understand now,
you’re guru, I’m disciple.”
Bijak, shabda 43
PS – there’s not even “word” (naam), no “radiant form”, no “guru” or “cause and effect” “there”, according to Kabir. And it is “pandits” or SCHOLARS who claim there is – they are those who make claims about “two”, not “one”. Please pay attention dear satsangis 🙂 PPS – Sonia, if you’re reading this, you mention you’re reading an RS book on Kabir and that he was “very mythic”? Honestly, reading a book on Kabir by RS is like reading a book on black history by Trump. RS has since it’s inception claimed the bizarre book “Anurag Sagar” was written by Kabir, and it also has a significant place in the formulation of RS concepts as RS gurus would advise future RS gurus to read it! The problem is, Kabir didn’t write Anurag Sagar, it was probably written centuries after his death, and anyone with a deep familiarity and understanding of Kabir’s other, older writings would immediately recognise this. I recognised this myself, and have since heard the scholarly consensus is he didn’t write it, and even “pro-RS” James Bean (whose research into the true origins of RS are absolutely fantastic and a must read, btw) agrees that it is highly unlikely Anurag Sagar was authored by Kabir. Further, Anurag Sagar is written by the equivalent of John the Elder – a deeply delusional, paranoid, fantasy filled, dark ages-type visionary, who mistook his paranoid fantasies and visions for reality, pretended he was Kabir and wrote Anurag Sagar! if you’re reading an RS book on Kabir, no wonder you think he was “mythical”….it’s based on a biography written by a demented fellow who didn’t even know his own name 🙂 The only writings on Kabir generally considered authentic, and which are infinitely more sane than anything in the Anurag Sagar – is the Bijak of Kabir or the entries in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. There is a totally different mystic in the Bijak compared to the one imagined by RS satsangis.
Anyway, point is this – despite there being little to no evidence at all that the dogma and doctrine of RS is true, there is a vast and ancient body of evidence continuing to this day that suggests a parallel but significantly different mechanic to reality. Ironically, over the years I have heard many RS believers absent mindedly reference all this research (NDEs, Stevenson’s reincarnation research etc) without considering that almost 100% of such experiences whilst somewhat supportive or suggestive of things like a “Divine mystery”, “reincarnation” etc, are actually wildly incompatible with RS dogma and doctrine – almost exclusively every single case of reincarnation Stevenson and his successors and other anthropological researchers into ancient societies, tribes etc found were from human to human incarnation, with only a few short years gap, and that there is far more volition and choice involved in the process than Indo-Buddhic doctrine suggests.
But I’m just repeating myself there – point was, NDEs also paint a radically incompatible picture of “life after death” and the “soul” than any life-denying pseudo-gnostic Indo-Buddhic doctrine ever has. I’ve literally seen or read hundreds of NDEs from across the globe and time periods. They show remarkable similarities both to each other, but also to some alleged “in-between incarnation” memories in child cases, and also to mediums, independent mystics or visionaries and psychedelic users etc, there is notable accord that surely requires an explanation from “sceptics”…..but they also show remarkable differences from the RS narrative!
For instance, RS and Charan have stated death is a very painful, tortuous process, the analogy he used is that for most humans, shedding our physical body somewhat like pulling a cloth from a thornbush in that it will cause great pain and suffering.
Yet after hearing hundreds of NDE cases, almost without exception they describe the process of shedding the physical body and all it’s attachments as incredibly easy and painless! Every single other thing they describe is also different from the joyless, escapist cosmology of certain indo-buddhic doctrines! There simply is no denying it, experiencer after experiencer describes the exact same thing, and it is a universe and God with far more meaning, love and forgiveness (immediate, not after a pseudo-eternity of karmas you never started and never had any control over at any point is magically “cleared” by the one True Guru in the entire multiverse, cunningly disguised as a very greedy boy) than the joyless universe and existence of those who follow narrow minded religions…….
And countless other avenues of “paranormal” or “mystical” experience all support these experiencers.
The only possible coherent defense of this situation – the huge body of evidence supporting the NDE, child reincarnation case, psychedelic user, spontaneous independent mystics etc which contradict the purpose of life, creation, God, the soul etc as presented by RS dogma and doctrine, and which has absolutely no evidence at all to suggest it is true – is to suggest all these things are tricks of kal, or lower region experiences etc.
In my mind, there is no qualitative difference between this rationalisation and the rationalisation of some Christians who say fossils were planted on the earth by Satan to trick people. It literally is the exact same ridiculously absurd religious belief, but in different words.
Right, that’s surely enough rambling for July folks 🙂
Dear Jen – that is one of the most delightful Freudian slips I’ve ever read 🙂
Dear Sonia – thanks for sharing that video clip of the dog and bird……so beautiful, thanks! 🙂
Cheerio all!

Goof god almighty how much of that stream of consciousness rambling BS do we have to read?
It’s pseudo science mixed with pseudo philosophy trying to be smart, but just plain rubbish.

@ has stated something so obviously absurd as “your entire life circumstances
@ are fixed and inviolable, including your method of death”, but that
@ “meditation helps you to deal with these karmas on the inside”, …
Hi, yes. It’s powerfully, compellingly clear that we make choices.
We must. Further we can hone our introspection to alter behavior.
Bring lightness and laughter rather than rage to a situation. We
can live healthily and improve our happiness. Choice, not nihilism.
But without real knowledge that hardens into a rigidity of its own.
You like chai and detest coffee. Did you make the choice or was
it foregone due to genetics and culture? You raised a belt to beat
a delinquent. What made you stop? What happened at that very
inflection? Were you making a choice or was it made in a timeless
moment somewhere, at a place you know not how to describe.
Was a sudden violence-averse reaction also choreographed in
another place, another time?
The problem is that for all our acuity and introspection, we don’t
know why we make choices. We only guess about their genesis.
They seem to be marshalled serially one after another in lockstep.
You know… in “real” time. But with our limited, fractured attention
we can’t begin to know. We perceive only what’s external. We
only opine about the absurdity of karma and fixed circumstance.
That’s alright, says the mystic, we can silently take credit for our
compassion or ruefully berate our own stupidity. That might well
be part of the scheme too. With improved awareness, we can
begin to peek inside and see what was actually set in motion.
The experience there inside ourselves, not outside, is key.

Goof god almighty how much of that stream of consciousness rambling BS do we have to read?
It’s pseudo science mixed with pseudo philosophy trying to be smart, but just plain rubbish.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 07, 2020 at 12:39 PM
OK, Mr. Grumpy Pants, which part of manjit’s comment did you disagree with? Can you name just one thing
I found it interesting and agree with a lot of it. Although, I think RS philosophy is evolving according to the times. I think GSD is extremely progressive as far as RS philosophy is concerned.
I love all the sciencey (pseudo/fringe–whatever, it’s still fun and cutting edge) stuff. I think it’s important to keep an open mind. Like, vegetarians. It’s not so special and it’s certainly not so benevolent just to be a vegetarian anymore. Consuming dairy in this day and age is basically morally reprehensible. But only a well educated person would understand that. So, it’s important to stay educated and up to date and to keep an open mind.
At the same time (and this is where balance comes in) all the knowledge in the world can’t take the place of a truly loving exchange. The other day (I swear I’m only using this example to illustrate my point) I was watching someone else’s dog for them for a few hours. The poor animal has suffered extreme neglect and has a lot of health issues and emotional issues because of it. She has to always be touching a human. She gets hysterical if she’s left alone in a room for a minute. It’s sad to witness. However, I like to give here treats and give her treatments and medications to improve her health whenever I get chance to. So, the other day after treating her ears I gave her a bath. Honestly, I did it more for my self than her but as I was drying her off (and I have absolutely no idea the last time she had a bath–she was filthy) she looked up at me like “thank you so much”. It was a strange moment. I realized that it meant a lot more to her than to me. The weird thing is that evening I was thinking about spiritual concepts and all of the sudden the image of her face with that look she had in her eyes just popped in front of me and at that moment it was like whatever-you-want-to-call-it-superconsciousness showed me that we really are connected. I could feel it. And then I felt loved for a brief moment more than I’ve ever felt loved before. It was like a split second NDE. lol
I think it’s important to understand that all of creation matters. If we don’t understand that then we are obviously ruled by our egos.

Hi Manjit,
I enjoyed your comment. 🙂
You wrote:
“Pandit, you’ve got it wrong.
There’s no creator or creation there,
no gross or fine, no wind or fire,
no sun, moon, earth or water,
no radiant form, no time there,
no word, no flesh, no faith,
no cause and effect, nor any thought
of the Veda. No Hari or Brahma,
no Shiva or Shakti, no pilgrimage
and no rituals. No mother, father
or guru there. Is it two or one?
Kabir says, if you understand now,
you’re guru, I’m disciple.”
Bijak, shabda 43
PS – there’s not even “word” (naam), no “radiant form”, no “guru” or “cause and effect” “there”, according to Kabir. And it is “pandits” or SCHOLARS who claim there is – they are those who make claims about “two”, not “one”. Please pay attention dear satsangis 🙂 PPS – Sonia, if you’re reading this, you mention you’re reading an RS book on Kabir and that he was “very mythic”? Honestly, reading a book on Kabir by RS is like reading a book on black history by Trump. RS has since it’s inception claimed the bizarre book “Anurag Sagar” was written by Kabir, and it also has a significant place in the formulation of RS concepts as RS gurus would advise future RS gurus to read it! The problem is, Kabir didn’t write Anurag Sagar, it was probably written centuries after his death, and anyone with a deep familiarity and understanding of Kabir’s other, older writings would immediately recognise this.
I believe Bijak, shabda 43 was referring to Sach Khand so then it kinda makes sense.
As far as Kabir goes, I haven’t read the RSSB books about Kabir yet. What I read was a free ebook online which was in fact ‘Anurag Sagar’. 😂 I’m so glad you cleared up the confusion for me!!! I was like “how on earth can anyone take this seriously???” ಠ_ಠ
LOL! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Manjit,
Again, I think this bit (pasted below) is referring to Sach Khand. Right? That’s how I understand it.
“Pandit, you’ve got it wrong.
There’s no creator or creation there,
no gross or fine, no wind or fire,
no sun, moon, earth or water,
no radiant form, no time there,
no word, no flesh, no faith,
no cause and effect, nor any thought
of the Veda. No Hari or Brahma,
no Shiva or Shakti, no pilgrimage
and no rituals. No mother, father
or guru there. Is it two or one?
Kabir says, if you understand now,
you’re guru, I’m disciple.”
Bijak, shabda 43

My nieces and I watched the first season of ‘The Politician’ on Netflix last night (it’s fun to indulge in binge watching during summer break). Lately it seems we’ve gone through dry spell of bindge worthy TV series. So, it was a nice find. Especially having both girls with us right now.
It’s kind of a dark comedy with a moral story to it (at the end). It was really good. I highly recommend it. Tonight we’re starting season 2.
The Politician trailer: https://youtu.be/6-kdBlzCG7w
Rotten Tomatoes review: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_politician/s01

@Manjit
It literally is the exact same ridiculously absurd religious belief, but in different words.
Until U really see IT / enjoy It’s Extreme Sweet Beauty
777
You have a problem with the Creator Personally taking a lower form,
making some friends,
gives a heritage
there where S/HE LIKES ?

@Sonia WOW and excactly what Gurinder said to Osho
Pandit, you’ve got it wrong.
There’s no creator or creation there,
no gross or fine, no wind or fire,
It’s all YOU, . . . There never was another n . . . congrat!
Now enjoy That
777
And what are Swami Ji’s “Wonders above wonders”
Those are these gorgeous collegas who got it too
and is so fascinating

manjit,
A question. What is Sant Mat’s position on Darwinism? Has it ever come up? RSSB or other branches?

Sonia
sorry it’s impossible for me to believe BS.
Where do I even start? it’s like a Gdam ‘war and peace’ 1000-page novel of BS and scatter-brained thoughts.
He seems to be creating an argument that RS considers death to be ‘tortuous’, but where is his evidence for this for a start? And then rambles on about NDEs and child reincarnation. What’s the point?
I personally don’t have a problem if he considers rssb, or its beliefs, untrue if he is an out-an-out atheist who only believes that which is objectively provable is true. But he’s not doing that. He’s giving he’s own subjective ‘fairy tale’ beliefs in demons, hob-goblins, NDEs, child reincarnation which don’t have an iota of objective proof for them either.
So purely on rational grounds, if that is what he is progressing to be, it’s complete rubbish – all of it.
But there is another problem, which is that he is creating straw-man arguments. He’s telling us what rssb or the guru believes without providing any proof of this. I suspect it’s not at all what the rssb/guru believes but what manjit thinks rssb/guru believes.
And since manjit believes in demons and other fairy tales – 🧚‍♂️- do me a favour and call it for what it is. Manjit said he doesn’t mind, so it’s all good.

“ The weird thing is that evening I was thinking about spiritual concepts and all of the sudden the image of her face with that look she had in her eyes just popped in front of me and at that moment it was like whatever-you-want-to-call-it-superconsciousness showed me that we really are connected. I could feel it. And then I felt loved for a brief moment more than I’ve ever felt loved before. It was like a split second NDE. lol”
Yeah but how many boozers had you already chugged down that night? Sounds like you were completely bombed. I’m no expert but this may be why rssb wants you off the sauce.

Yeah but how many boozers had you already chugged down that night? Sounds like you were completely bombed. I’m no expert but this may be why rssb wants you off the sauce.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 08, 2020 at 09:47 AM
No, Georgy. I wasn’t bombed. I quit drinking. Thank you.
Also, I know you haven’t read any of the RSSB books but a lot of what people refer to on this site are straight from the books and recorded satsangs (like the experience that death is painful).
Traditionally RS Sant Mat has taught that there are ghosts and demons as well as good deities. Both Great Master and Charan Singh had things to say about ghosts and demons being real and they very much believed in ghosts and demons. (Charan was Gurinder’s Master.)
Gurinder has taken a different approach.
So, although you may resonate more with GSD’s teachings (so do I), you should know that what many commenters are making references to in these comments have to do with what was taught by previous Masters.
Have you read any of the RSSB books? You have to read at least 3. 😉 Although, I think they’ve made it super easy by dumbing it down and including the quick read Sant Mat 101 ebooks on the RSSB site.
GSD’s Sant Mat 2.0 is very different from the Sant Mat of previous Masters. He kept the essentials and pretty much threw everything else out the window. But it seems like half the Sangat today are still initiates of Charan Singh (I don’t know what the real figures are but you always find older people in Western countries’ sangats) so there’s a lot of confusion now and then.
Have you ever attended a local satsang center?

Georgy, you may not agree with the previous Master’s teachings but if you are in fact interested in Sant Mat, you should get familiar with their teachings since they laid the foundation for RSSB. Plus, they were GSD’s Master/s.
Society and cultures change with the times, and a lot gets lost in translation. I totally get that. But since RSSB’s publications department still keeps cranking out new books regularly it would be helpful for you to have a basic understanding of RSSB’s history.

manjit, A question. What is Sant Mat’s position on Darwinism? Has it ever come up? RSSB or other branches?
Posted by: anami | July 08, 2020 at 08:50 AM
Spiritual Letters
Jaimal wrote to Sawan : “The last time I was here , thes mountains were not here” < The Himalayas So that's almost a Billion Years earlier 777

GP—
And a lot of RS books talk about past lives. They teach that after you reach a certain level you have access to information about ALL of your past lives.
I’m just repeating what they say so that you get a better understanding of why Satsangis are, for the most part, so weird.
A lot of them believe in aliens. 👽 Even though the books don’t touch on that. But they cover pretty much every other weird and wonderful 🧚‍♀️ 👻 you can imagine. Have you checked out the RSSB library of books that you can order online? Path of the Masters was a big one that confused the hell out of most people. 😂

I think the guru said don’t read the books and I agree with that – I rather get it straight from the horses mouth and do the meditation.
If I’m going to read books it will be about science of other man-made book knowledge.
Spirituality can not be taught or learned from a book. At best, there might be some songs or poetry that are the art forms that comes closest to describing the indescribable.
But the books I suspect are at best very poor metaphors written by satsangis who in many cases come from different cultures, in different eras, and who may have zero spiritual experiences or pedigree to draw from. In fact, the only thing in their favour might be that they write reasonably well about 2nd hand experiences and teachings imbibed from others.
No I’ve got no interests in the books in the slightest. I think want to try find a living master and try listen carefully to what he actually says, not what you think he says. But the key to it all must be the inner meditation.

@Sonia
>> Both Great Master and Charan Singh had things to say about ghosts and demons being real and they very much believed in ghosts and demons. << I have never read or heared him say anything about ghosts and demons, this is the very first time. To be sure i went through the indexes of 5 of his books but there was nothing to be found

Honestly, Georgy. I’m not sure understand what you’re getting yourself into. You couldn’t have picked a more fairytale-hobgoblin-dungeons-and-dragons-middle-earth-to-all-the-astral-realms-and-beyond path to follow. It’s anything but hard science. You can’t even seriously use the word science when you’re talking about Sant Mat. It doesn’t even qualify as a pseudo science. It’s Narnia. It honestly doesn’t get any weirder. GSD has worked really hard to make it seem less weird and to give it an air of normalcy.
“Science of the Soul” is a misnomer. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it. It’s probably exactly what you need. But (and no offense) I’m just now getting the impression that you know virtually nothing about Sant Mat and RSSB.
You do realize Satsangis leave their bodies and astral travel through different worlds and realms seeing all the beings there when they meditate. You know that, right?
???

“Spiritual Letters
Jaimal wrote to Sawan : “The last time I was here , thes mountains were not here” < The Himalayas So that's almost a Billion Years earlier" 777, Maybe only 50 million years? Even so, that points to the recognition of geological evolution. But what about biological? How old are humans in RS thinking? Did we evolve from apes? Can I go on believing in dinosaurs?

https://phys.org/news/2020-07-global-atmosphere.amp
Listen to the Earth sing.

Simran protects Satsangis
against all undesirable influences
trying to steal a piece of the cake
Here some “weirdness” – do U believe?.
In the lower astral regions exists a kind of
NASA University where defunded engineers
try to develop devices to make contact with
their attachments on earth
Many of the ufo phenomenae° are their ‘technical’ results
Even Those who hear the Shabd need to do Simran at all times
77

@Um
Great Master had several bad spirits visit him and say they were going to spread disease to the area. Great Master said that they could do what they wanted but not to touch the Dera.
I have heard this story so many times that I’m not sure if it was in a book or how news of this was spread. I’ll ask my mother-in-law when I speak to her.
And then either Charan or Great Master or both used to say that ghosts were often the disembodied spirits of those who had left this earth but had desires keeping them here (usually negative desires) so they couldn’t even cross over to the astral or get reincarnated for a while. Again… let me just ask some older Satsangis (I don’t have any books anymore other than the RSSB set of “encyclopedias”—those blue bound books on the cosmology of the universe).
Gurinder says “burn the books” but he also endeavored to build the worlds largest metaphysical library. So, I’d say he values some education.
Some of those stories may have been in the books of the letters they wrote. Like Spiritual Gems and Letters to the Master. Those kinds of books.
I guess I’ll have to read all the books now just so I can quote exactly. 🙄
Fun stuff.

Sant Mat teaches their are rulers of each reason (Simran) and that there is a hierarchy of beings within each realm under those rulers. It also teaches their are negative realms (temporary “hells” to reform souls) and beings their. We have some “evil” people on earth and outside this realm it’s no different simply because there are realms of reform… temporary hells.
Darn. I shouldn’t have thrown away all the books.

And Georgy, I hear what you’re saying about getting everything from the horses mouth. But the thing is you don’t get the opportunity to do that. You may see GSD once or twice a year at most. If you get to go to Dera you can listen to him speak and perhaps you’ll get a visit from him in your country. But to my knowledge he’s not continuing the Q&As… not past the Quarantine and it looks like he’s cut it back down to one a week. But I’m not certain if they just got behind or if they’re only going to do the Indian Q&A each week going forward in Quarentine.
Regardless, rest of the time you’ll be visiting your local sangat for a satsang written by other Satsangis that are taken from the books.
So you see, you’re in a pickle. And meditation is much harder than you think. You’re likely not going to see him within for years or decades or never.
I’m not trying to discourage you but don’t have unrealistic expectations. If you do then you might wind up being one of those “ex-ers” who comment here.

I’m sure someone else on here remembers more details about this story, but was it Great Master that sat in meditation for so long that he missed his duty for a day when he was in the military. And when he went to his superior to apologize they said, what are you talking about you were here the whole time.
So, he knew his Master has done it for him.
(Similar to Spence’s story)

G-
It’s good that you don’t believe in hell because the only people who experience those types of places (and it’s always temporary) are the people who have made a habit of condemning others to hell.
Their experiences are intense and simply to show them that no one deserves to go to such a “place” (it’s an experience).
So, you’re actually right. Technically there isn’t any such thing as hell and I think that’s why the current Master discourages talk or belief in such things. A little ironic how that works—so all 5 Masters may have said different things but they were all correct given the context of their statements.
I honestly have no idea why I’m going on about this stuff. It was like one thing led to another. But also, I guess, I find Context and Understanding to be very fascinating subjects in and of themselves.

I guess the bottom line is (plain and simple) if you can imagine it, you can experience it. So don’t go around imagining things that you don’t personally want to experience.
That also includes things that you may desire but that ultimately lead to negative consequences.
OMG, do I sound like Spence. 😱
😉

Sonia,
I remember a story like that. Did it involve entries in a ledger about something, maybe train arrivals and departures?
Wasn’t there a story about Charan ridding rats at the Dera in his youth? He knew somehow that rats are superstitious, so he painted one blue and released it back. The other rats fled, thinking they saw a ghost!

Masters do a lot “Multi-positioning”
Gurinder too, but HE doesn’t know . . . His Master does it
but when the disciple comes before Him physically
HE might remember
All metaphysical which is covered above, I commented in comments
so I don’t need at 83 , google 4you in Brians little frame above:
F.I. 777+Piet Romein

@Anami
I guess U are right, . .
But these figures involving God s schemes are immensely & collossal
F i : Our Moon was placed into position by an earlier race
that ended their physical adventures >3 Billion years ago
also hided some 7 chakras DNA for future human forms
Alien activities in this tiny milky way since half a billion years
have some knowledge of this 7 chakra ‘machine’
which is the exit , the passage towards the All Mighty Creator
Read Guru Granth, . . . that’s The Truth, I mean the circumstances
and Tolkien
Lately The Chinese found the entrance of the moon at the back-side
Hence all the fake Mars Missions if not for Phobos ( also placed)
All Nations that can, want the moon_knowlege and technology
But as Admiral Byrd with a flottile og 40 ships failed at antarctica
the moon is protected in a simple way
against greed
77
I had a friend who had many books even so that he had to buy 2 extra houses to stock all them
He read them all
Once I said
but if you know all there is written, . . . how about a zillion of other planets with their knowledge?
Same with meditation – best is to do it to let your Love swell

@ Sonia
>>I guess I’ll have to read all the books now just so I can quote exactly. << No need ... going through the index of Spiritual gems, there were indeed 2 references for "ghosts".

Hey Georgy
I read your comments and the word ‘contrary-ness’ comes to mind. I am also reminded of a colourful character in an old fairly outrageous UK TV series (you probably know it if you are a Brit), called ‘Balls of Steel’ – you’re a bit like ‘The Annoying Devil’ 🙂
When it comes to discussing Manjit’s BS, be good if you could be less generalised and say I believe Manjit is spouting bullshit because ….. and give some clear reasons based on your own experience to support your view.
It’s certainly true that sometimes his (M’s) comments are quite long, but I find there is quite a bit in there worth consideration. I often have to read things several times to get a better handle on what he says.
In regard to the recent posts I’ll further elaborate on my response to them. For example, Manjit’s bringing up the notion of juridical/retributive Karma. I never really looked at it this way before and when I stand back and think about what’s said (as I remember) in the RSSB teachings, I agree. It’s like a punitive set up and not too dissimilar from Christian notions of fallen souls, sin etc. All fine if you want to believe in that stuff. To me it just seems to promote dualistic dogma and helps to keep folk trapped in a belief system that ‘limits’ them. These days I prefer focusing not on karma ‘happening’ to a ‘separate tarnished soul’ but more linking soul to a much broader, life-affirming set up – expanded consciousness. This is a state that progresses to be less and less affected by ‘karma’ as we wake up.
In regard to Manjit’s points about evolution from cell to foetus and baby human, this I found really interesting. I’ll put it in a context of the late 80’s and early 90’s when I spent several years as a rebirthing/conscious breathing practitioner. Rebirthers are big on ‘cellular memory’. The process is in part about using the breathing technique to help release various trauma/false beliefs undergone/generated throughout one’s life especially in childhood and during one’s birth. I had this client who pretty much went right through her life ‘clearing and releasing’ lots of stored emotion/angst/intense experiences. What really amazed me was towards the end of her sessions she relived past time as a Christian, being mauled by lions in an arena in Ancient Rome. Very real to her and very real to me as we went through it. Cellular memory? Past lives? Genetic remnants?
I guess the point I’m making is to be in less of a hurry to pronounce this as BS. The only thing we can say is true for us is our own experience. Unless you have tried it and investigated it don’t knock it – find out for yourself. If you get the chance to stand up there and talk to GSD – ask him ‘what’s the deal with karma? Some people say the RSSB teachings present it in a very juridical almost retributive way…’ You might end up having an Osho moment and he’ll tell you that when it all comes down to it karma is actually bullshit as there is nobody really there for it to happen to.
I saw this the other day on the same site where the Sukshma Sharira is mentioned. It’s from the Mandukya Upanishad:
The world never really emerged
Nor will it undergo dissolution
There’s really no one who’s bound
No one seeking enlightenment
And no one who becomes enlightened.
All the best
PS – to 777 – if you believe in planetary evolution/geological time the Himalayas were formed 50my ago when India crashed into the Eurasian Plate – there are fossils up there of various older sea creatures – but as I understand much younger in age than 1BY

“Hence all the fake Mars Missions”
7,
Fake? How so?

I don’t know if there is a hell or not and neither do you. What I do know is that people can create their own hell in their own minds right here on earth.
I don’t know if there as demons or hobgoblins or flying elephants and unicorns 🦄, but neither do you or manjit. Just because you can imagine something doesn’t make it true.
What I struggle to comprehend is attacking a belief system that shares many of its principles with Buddhism and other wisdom traditions that seem to be considered fine by the supposed atheists on this site. So why should rssb be poo-poo’d? It’s as stupid as a catholic telling a ptirtestabt or Muslim that his beliefs are stupid. No perspective.
Hey Tim,
Yes, I don’t mean to be the devil, but it seems that might be my lot. I will try be more clear on manjit’s BS but there’s so much of it, I’m not sure where to start. Only my opinion. If others believe it is not BS or like his BS, I got no problem with it, I just have to call BS when I see it. Manjit said he doesn’t mind so we are all happy.

I would tend to agree with you that certain of the principles seem to be quite punitive, much like various religions, but I’m not sure that is the essential teaching.
I’m wondering if that punitive interpretation is how it’s been set out in books. For example, if karma is true, then it’s not punitive so much as a natural law of the universe, If you do good you will receive good. If you do bad, you will receive bad. As you sow so shall you reap. So it could be considered punitive in the negative punishment sense, but it could also be considered rewarding. Or it could be considered as morally neutral – it’s just you will get back whatever you put out.
This could even be expressed scientifically, for every reaction, you get an equal yet opposite reaction.
So the notion of karma is a complex one. I don’t think manjit is any position to understand what the guru’s understanding of karma is. Yes he may have read about karma in a book from an rssb Satsangi or even an exer like Hinesey who write ‘life is fair’ but this doesn’t mean these books / sabtagi’s view of karma is right or the whole story or what the guru understands karma to be.

Georgy,
You wrote:
“I don’t know if there is a hell or not and neither do you. What I do know is that people can create their own hell in their own minds right here on earth.
I don’t know if there as demons or hobgoblins or flying elephants and unicorns 🦄, but neither do you or manjit. Just because you can imagine something doesn’t make it true.
What I struggle to comprehend is attacking a belief system that shares many of its principles with Buddhism and other wisdom traditions that seem to be considered fine by the supposed atheists on this site. So why should rssb be poo-poo’d? It’s as stupid as a catholic telling a ptirtestabt or Muslim that his beliefs are stupid. No perspective.“
Me:
I honestly can’t tell if any of that was in response to my recent comments since you didn’t address anyone.
In my recent comments I wasn’t criticizing RSSB. I’m sorry you weren’t able to see that.
*************
You wrote:
“Just because you can imagine it doesn’t make it true.”
Me: (put a little differently)
If you can imagine it you can experience it. It doesn’t make it “Real” but it does make it “real” for the individual.
(I’m referring to the subjective nature of the imagination.)
Also, if you don’t stop taking every comment about RSSB and GSD so personally and in such a paranoid manner then I’m going to have to assume you wish to be the guru.

@anami
Blue rat. Funny.
@Georgy
Again, you filter everything I write through your extremely emotionally charged field of paranoia. You’re wrong about most everything I write.
@777
You wrote:
“I had a friend who had many books even so that he had to buy 2 extra houses to stock all them
He read them all
Once I said
but if you know all there is written, . . . how about a zillion of other planets with their knowledge?
Same with meditation – best is to do it to let your Love swell”
Me:
Wow! 😳 Bibiohoarder!
Yes, ultimately it’s about experience/meditation. 🙂

So the notion of karma is a complex one. I don’t think manjit is any position to understand what the guru’s understanding of karma is. Yes he may have read about karma in a book from an rssb Satsangi or even an exer like Hinesey who write ‘life is fair’ but this doesn’t mean these books / sabtagi’s view of karma is right or the whole story or what the guru understands karma to be.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 09, 2020 at 05:28 AM
And how exactly is it that YOU understand what the guru understands karma to be?
Are you completely delusional??? Do you actually believe yourself to be Gurinder??? I’m starting to think you need some SERIOUS psychological help.

It’s the guru’s responsibility to approve all books published under RSSB.

Did they stop publishing the English Q&A sessions?
Is it because of the red candles? Shame.

Sadly the only pro RSSB person on this site that is actually setting a good example is 777.

@manjit
The nootropics are working wonders. They seem to be countering all the negative side effects of the 6 different allopathic meds I take that over time impair cognitive function.
I have been taking doctor prescribed Klonipin every day twice a day for 16+ years which has the side effects equivalent to smoking weed every day.
It already feels like I can think clearer in the sense that I’m more decisive and can prioritize better.

What is it with Satsangis? My husband never told me he was a Satsangi or ANYTHING about RSSB until after we were married. That seems some deceitful to me. I would never have married him if I had know despite the fact that it has made him a better person than he would be without some sort of purpose in life.
I just don’t like being lied to. And I think that to lie about your Faith is the worst lie a person can tell. How can you ever trust a person that can’t even be honest about their belief in and commitment to a particular faith?

Hi S
You have a reason of signing with Sonia and next with S ?
Like I do with the seven
OK Anami
My impression , just one 7
@Brian don’t simran_ize these horrific death thoughst to heavy
You are not 100% sure, not even 5%
777

I’m disgusted with myself.
I spent this evening going through the archives and reading all the old comments from that last two years. Clearly I am stupidly naive and way too nice. 🤮
Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.
Found this too:
Yep, alcohol is probably the worst of the lot, but it can also make for a v pleasant experience or night out. I don’t drink during the week, but can happily sink 10 or more pints if I go out with pals. In fact it’s nice every couple of months to have a rip-snorter and blast the grey cells into oblivion. Probably not good, but the pub can be one of the nice things about the pommie / European culture imo. But yeah luckily I ain’t really been tempted to suck on the bottle regular each day like some who think it’s mother’s milk.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | December 17, 2019 at 04:34 AM

@7
Just like you… I get tired of spelling my whole name out sometimes.

Who are Georgey and Ashy. Just read a post from 2009. Georgey (with an e) shares a lot in common with the current Georgy as far as background goes. But Ashy talks more like him and Whodunit and Ilanovitch.
Just curious… there’s so much. It’s hard to keep up.

Emerging from meditation, it’s interesting to note how much time we spend trying to figure out what’s what with these tiny brains. We are extremely limited in our capacity to reason. Of course we should use reason and fact as much as possible, but there is still much we don’t know. And with these highly limited thinking machines we will never get beyond opinions however much we try to base those on solid information. And we spend so much time trying to express our opinions to each other. And then they will never match, so there is conflict and debate. The whole process is extremely derivative, third and forth hand. We feel confirmed when others agree, validated. And we feel threatened when others disagree. This is a terribly inefficient source of happiness and we’ll – being. Yet opinions are senseless. It’s irrational.
We worry about things that are largely or entirely our interpretation and always partial understanding, and that means partial misunderstanding.
We have to function in this world, and so the process is necessary. But like clothes or food, we can get caught up in it when it isn’t really exercising our main capacity to find and grow happiness that is uncomplicated and uncompromised within ourselves.
A moment spent in opinion is another moment spent outside of direct experience of ourselves, and the natural bliss that comes with it.
And that is always there within available as direct experience, no opinions needed. No conflict, no pain, but awareness.

A moment spent in opinion is another moment spent outside of direct experience of ourselves, and the natural bliss that comes with it.
And that is always there within available as direct experience, no opinions needed. No conflict, no pain, but awareness.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | July 10, 2020 at 04:11 AM
Questioning and expressing opinions as opposed to just preaching or blindly believing are also part of the journey to self-discovery.
I’m not a guru and I don’t want to follow any false gurus.
Not everyone has your best interest at heart. It’s important to remember that in this world.

There seems to be a new movement among spiritual groups today that “evil” isn’t real.
How do you define evil?
Do atheists believe evil exists?
What is the source of evil?
If you don’t believe in demons then obviously you don’t believe in God beyond a Buddhist perspective.
GSD is a Buddhist. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I just don’t think that the majority of Satsangis today are aware of that.

Planet of the Apes!
https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/07/10/hominid-footprints-on-crete-could-change-evolutionary-theory-for-good/

OMG, this totally made my day.
https://youtu.be/kELDEdMbkyg
🤣

Planet of the Apes!
https://greece.greekreporter.com/2020/07/10/hominid-footprints-on-crete-could-change-evolutionary-theory-for-good/
Posted by: anami | July 10, 2020 at 09:06 AM
Wow, that’s pretty cool. 🤓
With regards to your earlier question about whether RSSB believes in evolution, I was at a satsang weekend in Petaluma where GSD said “we believe in evolution” followed by what seemed logical, obvious reasoning. But then when I asked him about it at Dera during Q&A he said, “Did I say that? I don’t remember that… I wish someone would record what I say (meaning his team).”
So, the answer is I don’t know… I personally don’t see any conflict between evolution and “Superconsciousness” together creating/evolving into the world we live in.
Just don’t understand why people can’t believe in both super consciousness and evolution. They don’t seem to conflict imo. (Not sure if the term “higher power” really makes sense anymore.)
But the link I included in the previous comment (SNL) might be the real truth. 😉
I’m sure the truth is out there… somewhere.
Also, didn’t realize the NSA was handling all the X-files these days. That explains a lot. 😆

OK, best day all week. 😂 😂😂
https://youtu.be/PfPdYYsEfAE

“I personally don’t see any conflict between evolution and “Superconsciousness” together creating/evolving into the world we live in.”
Sonia,
Me neither, but I wondered whether manjit had the scholarly perspective on Darwinism and Sant Mat. I should check Radhasoami Reality and see if Mark Juergensmeyer had anything to say.
I think the main reason creationists get upset with evolution is that it contradicts the Bible on page 1. What’s left but to deny science altogether? Seen any of that lately?

Radha Soami Reality? Wait, there are more sites about RS out there besides RSSB.com and this one? 🤔
Here are some more laughs from Key Peele. Love these guys.
https://youtu.be/IHfiMoJUDVQ
Going to start ‘Stateless’ later tonight.

anami,
Here we go… this is probably as close to the truth as you’re ever going to get.
https://youtu.be/-ARFzXso3Ns
And to summarize and tie pretty much everything together that you read on these threads is this. https://youtu.be/ZxeghzvcO3Q

GSD is a Buddhist. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I just don’t think that the majority of Satsangis today are aware of that.
Posted by: S | July 10, 2020 at 06:50 AM
😳 I thought he was Sikh?

GSD is a Buddhist. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I just don’t think that the majority of Satsangis today are aware of that.
Posted by: S | July 10, 2020 at 06:50 AM
😳 I thought he was Sikh?
Posted by: Amiconfused | July 10, 2020 at 01:40 PM
Noooo. (And yes, you are confused.) He’s not a Sikh. I’ve never understood the turban and beard thing other than I guess it makes him look more like a “holy man”. None of the Masters were Sikhs. RS is an offshoot of Sikhism and Hinduism and Sufism combined. But RSSB today has evolved to be more Buddhist than anything else. GSD loves his Buddha statues.

The Masters didn’t follow the Sikh religion. They followed Sant Mat Radhasoami. The Sikh connection is more cultural heritage. It’s like a person with Jewish ancestry being a Christian. They’re Jewish but they don’t follow Judaism. I hope that clears things up.

Wearing the turban and not cutting the beard are for religious reasons. Shiv Dayal didn’t wear a turban. It’s not necessary for them to do so. They just do.
I doubt the next master will don the turban, unless Shivinder is the next master. I’m pretty sure he’d go with the look. But GSD’s son doesn’t wear a turban. He looks Western.

Sonia so I guess you are referring to what the master follows. If you go by that then the master follows love. Love is his religion. Love should be our religion too.
By Sikh I meant born into a Sikh religion and culture.

Hey, Sonia.
I usually skip the video links, but “prophetic and all knowing TSA” was kinda funny. SNL I’d already seen. I liked your robin and dog clip too.
Radhasoami Reality: The Logic of a Modern Faith is a book. A study published in 1991.
How do you figure GSD is a Buddhist???

Sonia so I guess you are referring to what the master follows. If you go by that then the master follows love. Love is his religion. Love should be our religion too.
By Sikh I meant born into a Sikh religion and culture.
Posted by: Amiconfused | July 10, 2020 at 05:41 PM
Love. That’s a funny word. I don’t even know what love is anymore. Seems all the organizations in this world are made up of greed, lust, and desire for power.

@anami
Aww 😊 thx. Marshall is a sweetheart.
Yeah, Key & Peele are kind of hit and miss. Half their stuff is hilarious and half is kinda stupid. That was one of the better ones.
Sorry, that comment was a bit of a downer. I just ended episode 3 of Stateless. (It’s Friday and everybody’s out.)
After episode 1 I lost my sense of humor. After episode 3 I was crying.

I meant to address that to amiconfused—the response about my comment (about love) being a downer. But Stateless is a really good show. Inspired by true events. Immigration system seems to be broken almost everywhere in the world.

Ahh… so much better than the red candles. ❤️ 🦢

Very good Tim Rimmer!!
I feel it the same about Santmat.
Thanks for your explaining how you see things in that context..

Forgiveness is an interesting thing. Forgiveness is more for the forgiver than for the one asking (or not asking for forgiveness). Forgiveness is how we heal ourselves. That persons who you’ve imagined hurt you doesn’t “need” your forgiveness. Forgiveness is how we heal ourselves and free ourselves. It’s kind of ironic.

Forgiveness and discipline aren’t the same. You can always forgive but if the person does keep repeating the same behavior then discipline is required. And discipline from a parent’s perspective should always be looked at as teaching, not punishment. We don’t punish for the sake of hurting. Parents discipline for the sake of teaching so that they can help the child learn to do the right thing. Sometimes “punishment” is simply whatever is required to “motivate” a child to stop the negative behavior so that they don’t damage themselves or others. It’s to teach them understanding. Or at least try…
Punishment purely for the sake of punishment is called torture. Nature has laws that we can’t circumvent. You can’t jump off a building without hurting yourself. Everything has consequences. So, there’s no need for retribution since nature/cause and effect is going to provide that automatically. Discipline is simply a form of teaching that helps the individual not break the laws of nature so that they can avoid creating negative circumstances for themselves and others.
It’s all about love. (I’m back on love today.)
The same applies to varying degrees when working with family, friends and colleagues. We should think less in punitive terms and more in Teaching terms.
(That was my personal lesson for myself for the day so I’m not preaching, just thought I’d share what I learned.)

“Parents discipline for the sake of teaching so that they can help the child learn to do the right thing.”
I never used punishment with my three sons and they turned out to be very positive and understanding people. Communication is the answer. Right from when they are old enough to understand what you are saying to them. My youngest had a fiery attitude and from the age of two or three years old he used to get really upset and would stand with his hands on his hips and say “you’re not the boss of me, no ones the boss of me”. For some reason I loved him even more than ever and having been a timid child myself I just loved him so much and would talk gently and calmly with him. Did not need to punish him and I knew this because I have strong empathy. He joined Scouts and Venturers when he was young and is now the most gracious and kind person and a Scout and Venturer leader with the patience of a saint. My parents were never disciplinarian and never tried to teach my brother and I and we became our own independent selves. My brother (seven years older than me) hitchhiked around the world in the sixties and seventies and visited the Dera and came home and told us about it and my mother and myself also became satsangis.
Yes Sonia, It is all about love.

Jen, no doubt you’re an excellent mom. It’s obvious and you’re very blessed to have your three sons still close and caring. Sounds like they’re taking good care of you. 😊

Georgy,
The only reason I ever apologize to you is because I start to feel sorry for you from time to time. It’s more than obvious you’re hurting.
For the record, I don’t care what you think of me but I do feel bad for you… whatever it is you’re going through.

As far as suicide goes… this isn’t going to help much but GSD says the day of your birth and the day of one’s death are predetermined. So, regardless of how one dies, they were destined to leave this world that day. This may just be a small comfort. But I find it comforting, nonetheless. I don’t know anyone personally or even distantly related to me who has committed suicide. However, I have seen the grief it causes families. I think anger is a natural part of the grieving process but just understanding that a person’s death is predetermined is strangely somehow more comforting.

Not comforting in the “how they died” sense. Just comforting in that it helps you let go of thinking that you should have had more time with them. Some people suffer for many years through a physical illness before they die. And that’s a terrible thing to watch.
It’s a very sensitive subject indeed. But accepting that one has to leave this world on a specific day somehow makes it easier to let go. Helps in letting go of the shoulda, coulda, woulda thoughts. 🙁
Letting go of someone or something you have no control over is peaceful. But it’s very difficult getting to that point.

Can anyone tell me what the feeling is like to be wrong all the time? I notice a few of you who exist in some sort of state of constant clinging to popular ideas and beliefs, and it makes you wrong basically all the time.
What does being wrong about everything feel like? What’s it like to actually believe in the cult’s teachings?

Can anyone tell me what the feeling is like to be wrong all the time? I notice a few of you who exist in some sort of state of constant clinging to popular ideas and beliefs, and it makes you wrong basically all the time.
What does being wrong about everything feel like? What’s it like to actually believe in the cult’s teachings?
Posted by: Jesse | July 12, 2020 at 07:17 PM
😂😂😂
I don’t know, Jesse. What does being Right all the time feel like?
I honestly don’t care either way. If I’m wrong, so what? If you’re wrong, so what? If everyone else is wrong, so what?
We’re only expressing and debating opinions here. I don’t think any of us have day jobs as policy makers. (Although I might be wrong about that since I have no idea what any of you actually do for a living other than Spence.)
Welcome to the Great Debate. Is there a God or isn’t there? Is there life after death or not? Is Trump a stable genius or a narcissistic sociopath? Is RSSB some evil cult or just simply an a organic spiritual philosophy evolving with the rest of humanity. Which is better, DC or Marvel?

Sonia my understanding of what the master explains is that the time
Of birth and death are written however suicide is when a person takes these matters in their own hands and alters destiny. This is why it’s explained to be the biggest sin in all teachings because it is going against the law of nature…against the divine will.
Your life circumstances are presented to you by virtue of where life brings you but how you deal with them or react to them is your free will.
Master was asked once that we are taught that need to learn to live in the lords will then what is suicide? His answer: not living in his will.
That’s the way I understand it

Can anyone tell me what the feeling is like to be wrong all the time? I notice a few of you who exist in some sort of state of constant clinging to popular ideas and beliefs, and it makes you wrong basically all the time.
What does being wrong about everything feel like? What’s it like to actually believe in the cult’s teachings?
Posted by: Jesse | July 12, 2020 at 07:17 PM
😂😂😂
I don’t know, Jesse. What does being right all the time feel like?
I honestly don’t care either way. If I’m wrong, so what? If you’re wrong, so what? If everyone else is wrong, so what?
We’re only expressing and debating opinions here. I don’t think any of us have day jobs as policy makers. (Although I might be wrong about that since I have no idea what any of you actually do for a living other than Spence.)
Welcome to the Great Debate. Is there a God or isn’t there? Is there life after death or not? Is Trump a stable genius or a narcissistic sociopath? Is RSSB some evil cult or just simply an a organic spiritual philosophy evolving with the rest of humanity. DC or Marvel?
I’ll just add, it must be a huge burden to bare—being the only one, the Lonely one who holds the key to true knowledge.
You’re like some kind of Oracle.

Sonia my understanding of what the master explains is that the time
Of birth and death are written however suicide is when a person takes these matters in their own hands and alters destiny. This is why it’s explained to be the biggest sin in all teachings because it is going against the law of nature…against the divine will.
Your life circumstances are presented to you by virtue of where life brings you but how you deal with them or react to them is your free will.
Master was asked once that we are taught that need to learn to live in the lords will then what is suicide? His answer: not living in his will.
That’s the way I understand it
Posted by: Amiconfused | July 12, 2020 at 10:34 PM
Hmmm 🧐
Well, I’ll just add that to the list of questions I’ll never get to ask him.
Too bad he doesn’t do virtual Q&A.
Although, it’s not like I really want to ask him another question about suicide. The last time I did, things didn’t go so well… which is why I’m here.
I guess the bottom line is try not to get so depressed that you commit suicide. Or don’t commit suicide. Either way is a pretty depressing subject. But I don’t think it’s worse than committing murder. I’m pretty sure killing another person isn’t in the Lord’s will either. If your gonna follow that kind of logic…

Sonia my understanding of what the master explains is that the time
Of birth and death are written however suicide is when a person takes these matters in their own hands and alters destiny. This is why it’s explained to be the biggest sin in all teachings because it is going against the law of nature…against the divine will.
Your life circumstances are presented to you by virtue of where life brings you but how you deal with them or react to them is your free will.
Master was asked once that we are taught that need to learn to live in the lords will then what is suicide? His answer: not living in his will.
That’s the way I understand it
Posted by: Amiconfused | July 12, 2020 at 10:34 PM
It’s a dark and depressing subject all the way around. Sometimes I wonder why my life was spared both times when I tried to commit suicide (again, this was over 20 years ago). I certainly wasn’t “crying for help” and anyone else who did what I did most definitely wouldn’t be alive today. It can only be described as a miracle. Both times—a total miracle. It defies science that I’m alive. So, why was my life spared or saved when others aren’t? My loved ones don’t have to ask all those horrible questions that others do. I’m so grateful for that, and my question to GSD was about the possible “guilt” I had over those two attempts. He did say nothing happens to the soul when someone commits suicide, that it’s just the mind. (Then he said depression is a first world problem but I’m not upset about that. 😂) And I don’t mean that “I’m here” because I’m upset or anything. It’s just what he said to me—that whole experience actually helped me to look at things differently and to open my mind and question all the things that I believed to be true but weren’t necessarily true. It helped me to search for the answer to what is true Love.
That’s all… no hard feelings. Of course, I have the clarity of mind now to see that in many cases it is unimaginably painful for those left behind. I mean, what kind of karma do those people have to ever have to go through something like that? (If you believe in karma.)

Suicide.
When I’m GIHF, my answer will be something like, “It doesn’t solve anything, because our karmas only follow us into the next life, and you’ll have it even worse, because the act of suicide adds to the burden. Your impulse to self-obliterate can be channeled into meditation. Meditation is the art of dying, a dress rehearsal to master the stages and journey of death while still in the body. Terminating the physical life prematurely, you’d be wasting an incredible opportunity and setting yourself back. Meditation burns karma and will lighten the burden you feel now to be straining under. Besides, the inner worlds are beyond description, and you’ll forget all your troubles. Die daily in meditation.”
How’s that?

Suicide.
When I’m GIHF, my answer will be something like, “It doesn’t solve anything, because our karmas only follow us into the next life, and you’ll have it even worse, because the act of suicide adds to the burden. Your impulse to self-obliterate can be channeled into meditation. Meditation is the art of dying, a dress rehearsal to master the stages and journey of death while still in the body. Terminating the physical life prematurely, you’d be wasting an incredible opportunity and setting yourself back. Meditation burns karma and will lighten the burden you feel now to be straining under. Besides, the inner worlds are beyond description, and you’ll forget all your troubles. Die daily in meditation.”
How’s that?
Posted by: anami | July 13, 2020 at 07:12 AM
Wow. No apprenticeship needed for you. That’s pretty good!
Especially this part:
“Besides, the inner worlds are beyond description, and you’ll forget all your troubles. Die daily in meditation.””
That’s pretty brilliant.
On another note, we’ve still got a serious timeline issue. Math is my Achilles heel so maybe you can help me out with this.
1. The day you were born and the day you die are predestined.
2. However, if you commit suicide then you’ve superseded predestination.
3. Where do you go in between the time of your death not recorded or prepared for in the Book of Life?
4. What happens if you were supposed to be the biological parent of another soul destined to be born after your premature death (suicide) but before your real earthly death that was recorded in the book of life?
5. The Book of Life—how often are they having to amend and update it?
6. How can two major events that are completely dependent upon every other event—even the tiniest of events—actually be predestined without every other event being predestined?
7. Is the answer to 1-6 “The Adjustment Bureau? If so, then I have no further questions.
But, GSD, made a good point in the last video where he was sitting outside (and the birds were chirping—that was super cute 😊) that these are probably the most asked questions and most difficult to understand (very loosely paraphrasing).
When I try to do the “math”, I realize what a futile exercise it all is… but the futility of it is exactly what makes everything else seem futile unless you just believe in something very general like Love.

I really enjoy watching the Q&A videos. They provide a lot of food for thought. The one with the comment about suicide stirred up some negative emotions but it ultimately helped me look at it from a different perspective. It can’t be said enough what a sensitive subject it is. There’s almost no way to talk about it without someone getting upset.
Anyway, since the Dera is closed through December 2020 people—mostly Satsangis—are really looking forward to his Q&As.
I’m not anti Sant Mat and I’m certainly not anti GSD—not by a long shot. But there are aspects of RS teachings (especially the traditional ones) that just don’t quite make sense to me. I’m not alone in that.
Maybe ultimately Spirituality isn’t supposed to make sense.

Gdam I see we are stil on this happiest of topics. So much for fun crazy. I wish that were the case.

Gdam I see we are stil on this happiest of topics. So much for fun crazy. I wish that were the case.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 13, 2020 at 01:18 PM
Every time I see a comment from you it’s like walking into my office and finding a surprise bouquet of flowers on my desk.

Georgy, I’m way more fun than you. I know that’s difficult for you to process but the sooner you learn to accept it the sooner you won’t feel the need to attack me.
Sorry, I’m just cooler than you.
😂

There’s almost no way to talk about it without someone getting upset
I’s always wrong to kill an innocent one ( the body )
while one hates the mind
A better way to punish the mind is to stop it’s repetitions
Simran does that
pjus produces gorgeous vibrations 🌞
Have a try
777

“Maybe ultimately Spirituality isn’t supposed to make sense.”
Nothing makes sense. We have five senses and supposedly a sixth sense, which I think is probably wishful thinking. Rather trying to make sense of life or death probably better to accept that we really don’t have any answers to life and the supposed life after death.
Believe in enlightenment? What does that even mean? Thats also a kind of hallucination. How can we prove its real even if we have out of body experiences which are still created by the brain. Its also easy to believe that our soul is experiencing inner journeys but how can we prove these experiences are real and that we are not simply dreaming.
Is our life simply some kind of dream and when we die thats it, over and done with? Well, we won’t know until after we are dead. I have a strange sense of humour nowadays. How to live without expectations? Just living each day and not trying to figure what life is all about, letting go and being free from all beliefs…

“That’s pretty brilliant.
On another note, we’ve still got a serious timeline issue. Math is my Achilles heel so maybe you can help me out with this.”
Sonia,
Well, no. The destiny question is beyond me. I constructed the suicide statement from book learning. Weren’t most of my formulations standard Sant Mat? Aren’t they standard anymore?

Is our life simply some kind of dream and when we die thats it, over and done with? Well, we won’t know until after we are dead. I have a strange sense of humour nowadays. How to live without expectations? Just living each day and not trying to figure what life is all about, letting go and being free from all beliefs…
Posted by: Jen | July 13, 2020 at 05:33 PM
I really appreciate your perspective. I like talking to people who have lived longer than I have and have more experience. I’ve never met anyone (who uses their grey matter) who at the end of their life says I’ve got it all figured out. You meet people that seem really at peace and that’s about as close to enlightened as it gets. Even if they can’t give you all the answers you’re looking for.
Maybe I’ll try to go a week without thinking about this stuff… without trying make sense of it.

I’s always wrong to kill an innocent one ( the body )
while one hates the mind
A better way to punish the mind is to stop it’s repetitions
Simran does that
pjus produces gorgeous vibrations 🌞
Have a try
777
Posted by: 🌞🌞🌞 | July 13, 2020 at 04:35 PM
Good intentions. Simran helps some people. And then some people really do need professional help.
********************
Well, no. The destiny question is beyond me. I constructed the suicide statement from book learning. Weren’t most of my formulations standard Sant Mat? Aren’t they standard anymore?
Posted by: anami | July 13, 2020 at 08:02 PM
Yeah, all of those are standard Sant Mat. But again, when a person is that far gone they’re no where near traveling the inner regions.
Maybe I’ll just keep this suicide conversion going till Georgy mentally implodes.

conversation not “conversion”

Sonia,
Okay, I’ve got it. Here’s my holy man answer to your questions about predestination:
“Quantum phenomena can not be understood in Newtonian terms.”

“Quantum phenomena can not be understood in Newtonian terms.”
Posted by: anami | July 14, 2020 at 07:42 AM
Perfect. 👌 Love it. I’ll use that one going forward for anything impossible to explain. 😁

@ Okay, I’ve got it. Here’s my holy man answer to your questions about
@ predestination:
@ “Quantum phenomena can not be understood in Newtonian terms.”
I like it! But can I be wholly sure Newton’s apple was on the
ground before it fell. Holy moly, that’s the fruit of thought.
Am I predestined to confuse myself. Of course… unless I
wholly become the apple. Otherwise, the core is left.

Man this guy makes a lot of sense.
I mean compare this to bullshit hyperfalutin analysis of these Buddhist masters. This is just plain talk. Clear as day. If there is someone that can express these incredibly deep concepts any more clearly I’ve yet to see it.
Where is all this religiosity like GIHF that everyone on here consistently bangs on about like a bunch of rabid jackals?
Just clear wize words.
Long live the magnificent 7
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 15, 2020 at 03:58 AM
GIHF is the mantra of every satsangi at every Satsang ever. But you wouldn’t know that since your only involvement with Sant Mat is trolling this blog.
Maybe you should look for a spiritual philosophy that’s all about division since divisiveness is your forte.

Gurunder says . . . . .
You are certainly going to use this against my 400+ comments
stating that only LOVE will end separation
I guess ; and no satguru ever said : You MUST love ME.
I said that “thinking nothing” will provoke this love
but that LOVE will actively stop our inner dialogue
and that each puber knows this
“Cannot speak, cannot eat, cannot sleep!”
The ADvaita reasoning cannot do a thing but powerfull Simran will do it because in that package is the solution ; is The Love
Simran IS the Super de Luxe if done at ALL TIMES, 24/7
HE, Gurinder is The Custodian of that Simran Package
but HE doesn’t place Himself above us, prefers let me say that
I completely agree with HIM and sympathise with Him
This morning a RSSB booklet “RAVIDAS” came 2me
and I read on page 100 about the value of the 7 chakra system
that makes one ONE
Again Anami, 4 Billions ago it started
and a whole 7 chakra civilisation was saved
They left genetic material and so Jaimalsaid
an earlier time I was here the Himalayas were not
Now Aliens are flabbergasted about how to enter in a 7 chakra jevaa
without proper reincarnation
The 7 Chakra individual can generate Love
and also Hate
LOVE does it . . . ask for it . . . that s not to much to ask
in your contemplations
777

Georgy, do you know a single person in real life who is a Satsangi? Have you ever attended a satsang at a local sangat? Have you read ANY of the RSSB books? Never been to Dera? Never applied for initiation? Obviously never sat in meditation. Do you know anything at all about any of the previous Masters? Can you even name one of the previous Masters? Do you realize that all you do is make people not want to have anything to do with the guru? Or is that your whole purpose?

Georgy, do you know a single person in real life who is a Satsangi? Have you ever attended a satsang at a local sangat? Have you read ANY of the RSSB books? Never been to Dera? Never applied for initiation? Obviously never sat in meditation. Do you know anything at all about any of the previous Masters? Can you even name one of the previous Masters? Do you realize that all you do is make people not want to have anything to do with the guru? Or is that your whole purpose?
Posted by: S | July 15, 2020 at 08:04 AM
OK, I think I figured it out. You’re commenting from a Correctional facility in the U.K. You’re in there because you used your two Science degrees to go all Walter White Breaking Bad. And you saw GSD once before you went so he’s your only hope and inspiration.
I get it now. I’m so sorry. You’re doing the best you can. I’m not even being sarcastic.
I’ll try to be more understanding from now on.

Georgy, I’m neurotic. I worry a lot. I’ve never been able to figure you out and you really rub me the wrong way a lot of times because I have no idea where you’re coming from because your whole background makes what you do and say very conflicting. However, it’s really none of my business what your background is or whatever you’re dealing with. But then I sit and worry that I’ve been too harsh with you and maybe you really are locked up (which is totally cool—I mean, no judgement). And then I think, damn, I hope he has access to books, and people who visit him and write him.
See, I’m THAT kind of neurotic. I guess the bottom line is I shouldn’t judge you because I have no idea what you’ve been through or how difficult your circumstances may or may not be.
You’re OK.

Sonia, you are not neurotic.
Georgy is very judgmental and thinks he knows everything. I’m sick of being judged by the country I was born in and the colour of my skin. I’m not at all nostalgic. I’m very grateful to have escaped.
This is a comment from him to me:
“South Africa’s apartheid regime was legal racism, it was despicable. There is and never will be any defense for it. Much of the violent crime that ensued abd exists to this day was a direct result of racial oppression. Guess what human beings don’t like being mistreated. There is a reason why people from other countries are weary of white South Africans who did a runner, especially those who feel nostalgic to that era.”
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | June 06, 2020 at 11:32 PM

@Jen
I remember when Georgy wrote that. At the time I was like surely he’s not referring to Jen. If he read anything you’ve ever written he couldn’t possibly be referring to you.
Of course, I know what he said is the farthest thing from the truth about you. You’ve made that very clear in all your comments.
My mother-in-law and brother-in-law are still trapped there. We have to send them money to cover all of their expenses every month because there’s such chaos in the country, xenophobia and reverse discrimination that it’s almost impossible for a white person to get employment there.
Anyway, sad thing is they are Satsangis and completely against any sort of racist thinking or treatment of others.
You are so lucky to have escaped. I’m so happy for you. It’s absolute hell there.

Georgy might actually be South African. I just say that based on a lot of his references. With proxy servers we will never know…

“You are so lucky to have escaped. I’m so happy for you. It’s absolute hell there.”
Thank you Sonia, so glad someone understands. Its horrible being judged and I suppose thats why I live a very quiet life, just keeping to myself and my family. Sorry to hear that your mother-in-law and brother-in-law are still there. Not easy now with the high levels of violent crime.

yes, I am judging the South African apartheid regime, as I would the German Nazi regime, or any other government that would oppress and treat ppl differently based on colour, creed, health, sex, sexual orientation, or anything else.
I believe it is right and necessary to speak out when there is injustice in this world.
If you have a problem with any of that – tough titty.

Why is it ppl take a general comment so personally. Where did I insult Jen? I made a general comment in a BLM discussion thread.
If Jen take it personally, it says more about Jen than anything else.
As for my take on old SA, which is now long gone thank god, is that the people that voted for that regime (the overwhelming white majority) are equally to blame.
I would go further, though this is more debatable and my own view, which is that any white SA expat sitting in the lap of luxury in their foreign hidey holes, should be less concerned about their own shaming by foreigners, and more concerned about the people that were ‘properly’ persecuted under those regimes. Do you actually know what true persecution is? How selfish and obtuse can one actually be?
I hate to break it to you, but there are many South Africans who believe it or not find the current country and government infinitely better than any white-racist government that ever existed before. Why do they want to hear from embittered expats? If you not part of the solution, just fk off and leave already and stay gone.
There are many issues with the current SA govt, of which their current citizens should all have a say, but I’ve got no time at all for eye is me embittered SA expats who should accept their new country and have no say in the current SA country or govt at all.

https://www.classcentral.com/tag/interpersonal-skills

I’ll be happy to buy this course for you.
https://www.udemy.com/course/interpersonal-relationships-u/

Jen,
Just ignore Georgy. He hasn’t been getting any yard time lately.

Oh sorry I thought you wanted me to comment.
Would you prefer it if I was false and feigned kissy-kissy koochy-ku kumbaya compassion for all the crazy fun suicidals, alcoholics and expat white South Africans ?
Is that what normal well-adjusted ppl like you do. Feign sympathy.
Sorry I can’t do that.

Georgy Porgy, would you prefer that I ignored the fact that you act like a troll who is just trying to stir things up on my blog, insult people, and denigrate serious problems like alcoholism and suicidal thoughts? Sorry, I can’t do that. Any further comments from you won’t be published.
And if you use a different “name” in a cowardly attempt to keep on disguising your identity as a troll, rest assured that no comments will be published that are as nasty as the ones you’ve been trying to share — some of which I’ve already refused to publish. There’s a lot of room in cyberspace. I look forward to you finding another place to spew your hate speech.

Oh sorry I thought you wanted me to comment.
Would you prefer it if I was false and feigned kissy-kissy koochy-ku kumbaya compassion for all the crazy fun suicidals, alcoholics and expat white South Africans ?
Is that what normal well-adjusted ppl like you do. Feign sympathy.
Sorry I can’t do that.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 16, 2020 at 11:21 AM
No, Guruji, I really just wanted you to actually have empathy.

Osho saidHow can “doing” anything get you to oneness, when “you” are the doer?
Anything that makes you proud enhances the ego and the “me”
I VERY MUCH AGREE
SO, fall in Love
we can ask
just ask
777
Love the Lamborghini!

@all even exers
This is a small lesson about “non thinking”
Although the ultimate way is LOVE
there are some short cuts
Make a little list of 5 or 3 horrible events you heard or experienced
that you would never remember anymore at all in your life.
But this is for a good purpose – maybe it works also with minor “calamities”
So please before sitting read one random page or strophe
from a RSSB book
Now when sitting remember N° One and because you have told yourself not to remember perhaps half your life
it will be easy to terminate that thought stream or dialogue
Next realise about HOW you did it
The point is:
When you r capable to short_circuit that big one , . . . use your method for
other less frightening daily streams
IT WILL WORK
THIS IS THE TIME OF STREAMING
777
PS
Not changing the notles from initiation but can be fun
Like typing the 5 words 1,000 times on your computer – next wipe it

Posted by: 💞💋🧡🧡 FUN 💞💋🧡🧡 Help 💞💋🧡🧡 | July 19, 2020 at 05:39
You’re too nice. 🙂

Would you prefer it if I was false and feigned kissy-kissy koochy-ku kumbaya compassion for all the crazy fun suicidals, alcoholics and expat white South Africans ?
Is that what normal well-adjusted ppl like you do. Feign sympathy.
Sorry I can’t do that.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 16, 2020 at 11:21 AM
RSSB,
Is this how your guru behaves? That’s not a rhetorical question. I’d really like an answer.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/10/health/i-on-india-childhood-obesity/

Dera had its fist case of COVID this past week.
I wonder if they closed the snack bar?

Gurinder is older, fatter, balder, slower and sadder. Give him a break for God’s sake…

@This old man
😳 That’s kinda harsh.
@Spence,
Found something you might like.
https://lonerwolf.com/spiritual-guidance/

Hi Sonia,
Thanks for the post. I like it!
It’s good to search, until you find your path. Then you search on your path.

Imagine posting with a title “Dalai Lama says we must listen to scientists” and then your next blog post is titled ” Blind belief feels good but isn’t a reliable guide to truth” and not seeing the irony or thinking of yourself as utterly mentally incapacitated.
You’d be better off in a straight up animal sacrificing cult than the weirdo “believe famous people who use the word science” cult.
Also, just a reminder that you all are always wrong about basically everything.
https://www.mysuncoast.com/2020/07/19/concerns-arise-some-receive-positive-covid-results-never-got-tested/

Gurinder deserves to go to hell.

https://youtu.be/ycTC0YlG1HQ

Blind belief in trillion dollar media conglomerate spin isn’t a reliable guide to truth.
https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1285566981870161920

Hi Anami! You write: “But what about biological? How old are humans in RS thinking? Did we evolve from apes? Can I go on believing in dinosaurs?” & “A question. What is Sant Mat’s position on Darwinism? Has it ever come up? RSSB or other branches?”
“Can I go on believing in dinosaurs” may well be one of the best one liners I have ever read here, thank you 🙂
Well, one of the questions I held in my mind when I read (and re-read, and re-read again) the entire RSSB corpus as a young teen was, “does any aspect of this cosmology contradict a theory of evolution”. I never came across an RS teaching which directly contradicted evolution, and I personally saw no reason for the theory of evolution to “disenchant” one from mysticism and spirituality in general, and it has always seemed to me to be a relic debate within Abrahamic faiths only (where the old creation myth physically contradicts evo)?
So please, feel free to continue believing in dinosaurs. I like to picture them as pink and fluffy with squeaky voices, you?
A problem does arise, however, when we look at old Indic concepts of “yugas”, of which we are said to currently be in the “kali yuga”. RS doctrine wholesale accepts this model, based as it is on the same Indic metaphysical system, and the fact many proto-RS mystics like those in the Guru Granth Sahib also repeat and believe in the same “yuga” model of creation and life on earth.
The problem is, these cosmo-historic concepts arose and evolved in a context that was notably absent of archaeological digging, comparative analysis of global creation myths, genetic science, physics and astronomical investigations etc, ie. a complete vacuum of real-world facts. With the subsequent tremendous advance in all of these aforementioned fields, it has become abundantly clear that the entire “yuga” model is exceptionally unlikely to be literally physically true. This has led some more modern, “new-age” interpretations of the whole yuga model that is not literal in the sense the originators of these models probably believed them to be. RS doesn’t really address the issue, as nobody seems too bothered by that particular mythic aspect of the cosmology, so why spend time rationalising it, I guess?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Georgy Porgy wrote: “do me a favour and call it for what it is. Manjit said he doesn’t mind, so it’s all good.”
Aww, you are so cute Georgy! My heart actually aches for you, that you think there was any possibility on any conceivable level that I could be offended or hurt by your empty criticisms of my post! I’m almost inclined to pretend you make an excellent point just to make you feel better…..if only I wasn’t a fan of honesty!! 🙂
Georgy Porgy wrote: “He seems to be creating an argument that RS considers death to be ‘tortuous’, but where is his evidence for this for a start? And then rambles on about NDEs and child reincarnation. What’s the point?……….. I suspect it’s not at all what the rssb/guru believes but what manjit thinks rssb/guru believes.”
Hehe….oh dear.
It’s somewhat difficult to have serious and sincere discussions with people like yourself, who without having even the slightest idea what they’re talking about, seem intent on demanding others share in their absolute and abject ignorance. But worse than this, they lie, distort, deceive and manipulate truth and reality to further their ideological agenda, driven as it is by unexamined and unacknowledged psychological motives. Yes, the religious apologist who defends his faith, even though they have absolutely no idea about their faith, or why they’re defending it. And then pretends they have no connection to the religion they are clearly an apologist for. This is a religious psychological dynamic that I have no interest in.
It is clear you have no comprehension of RS history, teachings or cosmology. It is also clear you have no notable grasp or awareness of any field of science, psychology, spirituality, mystical experiences or the paranormal in general. So, naturally, my arguments would have been lost on you as you have no interest in learning or understanding, but instead rather obviously and openly mindlessly and oafishly defending your religion and it’s leader. Good luck to you.
On a more pertinent note, should anyone wish to actually learn something, here is Charan Singh’s comments about the death process:
““Q. What about the scorpions?
A. He has given an example to show that you should practice dying while living, because it is easier than the death you have to face at the time of death. At the time of death, the pain that you face is just like the pain of scorpions’ stings so keep that in mind. In order to avoid that pain, now bear this pain of meditation. He has just given this as an example to show generally how much pain we have to go through at the time of death. He says in order to avoid that, a little discomfort now is much better. So we shouldn’t mind this discomfort or pain in the body while sitting at the time of meditation, because otherwise we may have to face that pain of the scorpions. It is just a way of explaining to us.””
Charan Singh, Die to Live
Now pay attention, folks. What Charan is referring to here, when he describes the death process as if he actually knows what he’s talking about, is in response to a questioner’s quote from Tulsi Sahib (for people who follow the religion of RS because of familial connections but have no real understanding at all about it’s history or teachings, like Georgy Porgy, Tulsi Sahib was Soamiji & his family’s guru – PS, Georgy, Soamiji is the founder of the Radhasoami religion you follow, keep up! :). Tulsi Sahib himself, however, was also merely parroting, as if he actually knew what he was talking about, a much older quote from a well known Indic text called the Garuda Purana; “27. Then, at the destruction of the decayed senses and the numbing of the intelligence, the messengers of Yama come near and life departs. 28. When the breath is leaving its place, the moment of dying p. 5 seems an age, and pain like the stinging of hundred scorpions is experienced.”.
So, what we have here is a chain of mindless, unexamined intellectual concepts and beliefs – dogma in other words – that is passed from ancient times, via the process of religious “education”, to our so called “mystics”, who then repeat that exact same, unexamined, dogma as if they are somehow mystically aware of what the death process is like for everyone else who hasn’t been initiated into their cult and is able to “die daily” and “withdraw their inner current to the 3rd eye” or whatever other somewhat bat shit crazy religious belief they may hold.
Now, I understand Georgy this is already a bit beyond your level of interest, understanding and awareness of the subject, extended as it has beyond mere mindless religious adherence, defence and apologism – but my earlier point was, the claim has been made by religions past, and via them directly into the mouths of alleged mystics present (heavy emphasis on alleged 🙂 – but what evidence is there to support such a claim? Well, much like all the evidence there has ever been for “reincarnation”, all the evidence we have for people who’ve got close to dying and returned is, well, unaminous; the RS model of both the death process,”reincarnation” and the “afterlife” is total bullshit!
Now, you may, as you do, declare the whole subject evidence-less bullshit! But really, that also includes your guru and his entire religious belief set, for which there is infinitely less “evidence” for their cosmological claims and models than there is for NDErs, child reincarnation memories etc. Simply being entirely ignorant of his entire belief set – having a interest purely for familial psychological religious reasons – does not make it any the less so. But really, good luck with your religion. I hope you find a nice social set to meet up with and share veggie recipes or whatever, and perhaps ease that existential dread you feel. You deserve it, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! 🙂

(Vinny wrote in another blog-thread, but moved here for obvious reasons!): if 90 % of people start experimenting with bretharianism/ living without food on liquids or without liquids and 50% become successful at it. Where would Sant-Mat go ?? On Mars or Venus.
Posted by: Vinny | July 30, 2020 at 07:52 AM
Hey Vinny, are you are aware Prahlad Jani passed away recently?: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujarat-ascetic-who-claimed-survival-without-food-and-water-passes-away-at-91/articleshow/76004475.cms

“withdraw their inner current to the 3rd eye” or whatever other somewhat bat shit crazy religious belief they may hold.
Posted by: manjit | July 29, 2020 at 07:14 AM
😅
I think the whole astral/causal travel thing is a bit bizarre and completely unnecessary. If anything, the practice is just going to make you even weirder. Meditation is good but no need to travel and “gain psychic powers”. That’s exactly what’s wrong with this world in the first place—everyone wants Power.
Power mad Presidents and Gurus trying to take over the world.
Oh, BTW, I was having some fun with numbers and discovered that FOX News is the mark of the beast. Yeah, for real…
😂
It’s a numerology thing.
1 — A J S
2 — B K T
3 — C L U
4 — D M V
5 — E N W
6 — F O X (666)
7 — G P Y
8 — H Q Z
9 — I R
😂

OMG, Manjit, what do you think of this?
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-easier-or-harder-for-psychopaths-to-become-psychics-mediums-or-paranormals/answer/Veronica-Moore-89?ch=10&share=efdacf82&srid=u8KPcg
I eagerly await your reply.

This is pretty profound—think of it, we’ve had 676,795 COVID related deaths globally over the past 6 months.
Compare that to the number of people who died from the Spanish flu in an 18 month period 100 years ago. Yes, over 50 Million people died from the Spanish flu in just 18 months. And there was a fraction of travel back then compared to today. Also, the population was roughly 1.7 Billion. Today we have over 7.8 Billion. There’s no comparison.
But the COVID situation could have turned out just like the Spanish flu and even worse If we weren’t taking the extreme measures that we are today with social distancing, face masks, lockdowns, closures, etc.
Just food for thought.
🙌 Face Masks 🙌 Social Distancing 🙌 Hand Sanitizer 🙌 STAY AT HOME 🙌

One death is too many. But I’d rather live through COVID-19 than the Spanish flu. Science and Medicine are light years ahead of where they were 100 years ago. So, despite how bleak it may seem, we’re improving in some ways.

I asked someone about GSD having cancer and they said it isn’t as serious this time.
Science and Medicine are improving…
If they could get humans to stop using animals for food and polluting the earth we’d be golden.

@Sonia
I tthink youtube_search
666, 5th Avenue NY
is more clear
there is also MS’s patent 060606 on nano RFID chips
although this voodoo_magic alister crowly related has some strength
it’s ALL from the low low so low astral/etherical bull shit emanations
Seth Shiv Dayal cq Gurinder’s Stuff is so endlessly higher and more powerful
One can only know by seeing This – seeing= experimenting and being flabbergasted
777

Sonia what’s the source of your Medical information on the master? Are you certain you are speaking accurately?

GSD’s youngest son Gurkirat just had a baby girl in the UK.
It’s probable he went there to see her, since Shabnam Dhillon isn’t around anymore.

In search of/Amar
Your back with your comments. Good to see you mate. How have you been? Haven’t seen you in a while. Looks like you went back to “in search of”? How’s the searching?

Hi Other Jen. I haven’t gone anywhere. I’ve been reading Brian’s blog and the comments religiously, pun intended. I’ve been reading the books Brian comments about and trying to create a quietness and calmness in my life. Lifelong struggle but worth the effort and journey.
Hope everyone is enjoying a safe summer!

In search of
Nice. Stillness and calmness is a great goal to have. Hope all is well on your end.
Thanks for the information you shared about the Master and the birth of his granddaughter. Just confirm your information before you share something that’s untrue and also just think about all the information you shared about him over the past few years, what if it’s accuracy is the same as this one? Perhaps it’s worth giving it some thought. That’s a lot of assumptions made based on a false narrative. 🤔
Stay safe and healthy.

Other Jen, we won’t know what the real story is until it’s gone through the courts. Even then we probably won’t have all of it. We can take things and twist them anyway one wants to fit the narrative we seek to justify, that goes for both sides.
In my journey over the last 2 years, I’ve had to reconcile my own faith, beliefs and attachments to RSSB teachings and try to inject some semblance of critical thought into it.
For someone like me born into it and basically indoctrinated into it, it’s a slippery, muddy hill to climb. Someone who hasn’t had to do that won’t understand.
We all regret things we said and did in the past, as long as we learn from them and make adjustments for the better, that’s all we can try and do.

Other Jen,
Dera residents said he went to U.K. for treatment. But I’m an empath so I happen to know he will be fine. I “know things”. 🙂

Amar I understand you more than anyone else as just like you I too was born into a satsangi family. I was initiated (by my own choice) at an early age and have lived most of my life following the path.i Too have injected much critical thought into what I grew up knowing and believing. Started Reading up on this website from Brian, David lane, Faqir chand and other lines of RS teachings. Plus other critical thinkers like Sam Harris, Dawkins, Dillahunty among a few. So I am very aware of your journey as I travelled the same way.
Point is just think about your source of information… as the latest “fact” you so confidently presented is far from true. If that be the case perhaps all the other accusations you have been throwing around for the last 2 years have the same accuracy.
Take care

I may seem really harsh at times but I’m pretty tuned into other people’s feelings—emotional and physical. So I happen to know that health-wise he’ll be fine. And yes, he has a new granddaughter in the U.K. A friend even sent me a pic (I have a whole network of spies 😂).
He’s been sick for a long time but didn’t realize it. But it’s not serious anymore.

@777
Did you know 140,000 divided by 666 is 210.210210?
That represents Gevurah “the essence of judgment (DIN) and limitation”, and corresponds to awe and the element of fire.
If you’re familiar with the New Testament book of Revelations, that’s kind of funny.
Revelations should have been omitted from the Bible without question.

Sorry, I’m foggy right now. It’s 144,000 divided by 666 = 216.216216
216 is the number related to Gevurah.
Same intent. Just typed the numbers wrong.
And it’s really ironic for all those who believe “144,000” are chosen.

Other Jen,
He is in the U.K. which “fact” of In Search of it’s are you questioning?
Maybe he went there solely for treatments but I’m sure he’s enjoying seeing the first baby girl in his family, Shakruna.
All children are beautiful.
If babies weren’t so adorable who would bother with them. Lol. They’re a lot of work! That was part of God’s design—making babies crazy adorable.

Sonia you too need to examine your spies. Ha I find it amusing that so much is presented as a fact very confidently from many commenters here which are far from being factual. 🤷🏼‍♀️ That’s all I will say on this matter.

My brother had open heart surgery last Friday (8 days ago). It was very serious. He’s 8 years younger than me and his heart capacity was at 55% by the time he had his surgery (it was a HIGE concern of mine) but he’s home now and doing really well. Oddly he was given a new valve—cutting edge—that I saw in a magazine article at the Dera in 2016 from a Singapore magazine. I wanted to steal the magazine and take it home but didn’t have the opportunity to. Lol. Anyway, he got the latest, most advanced treatment with a world renowned heart surgeon. He was/is very lucky even though the recovery process is still very painful.
I mentioned yesterday, that we have advanced light years over the past century in medicine and science.
People shouldn’t get too depressed with regards to this current epidemic. In theory it really and truly should have been much, much worse. But we, as a global society, have stepped to the plate. Not perfectly, but certainly far better than our ancestors fared 100 years ago. It’s phenomenal. It really is. So, when you feel things are bleak, just remember that they’re not. We’re doing great considering…
I truly believe there’s more “light” in the world now. You can translate that as intellectual or spiritual or both. But overall, we are much better off than any previous generation faced with such a challenge.
I hope that helps some of you to sleep better at night.

OK, Jen… maybe he doesn’t know. That’s OK. There’s so much that all of us are unaware of.
I know what I know. It doesn’t matter what other people think. “The lord works in mysterious ways.”
Even for Mystics much remains a mystery.
Anyway, I could say a lot more but that’s all I will say on this matter too.
Gosh, you’re welcome.

Can’t you tell in his Q&As that he hasn’t been feeling 100%?? He’s been extremely tired.

Thank God Georgy isn’t here to send me over the edge anymore. Where do they find people like him??? Of course, he might still be commenting on I Hate Church of the Churchless but I don’t dare venture there.
It’s people like that (most likely posting on behalf of RSSB) that do their level best to make you think the guru is a complete lunatic. They’re not helping the cause that they’re trying to defend AT ALL.
Anyone who claims to NOT be an initiate and sings the praises of RSSB and GSD on THIS site is bonkers or a plant. The latter is most likely true.
Seriously, do you think that approach is actually convincing???
With “20+ million” followers and one thousand plus REL subsidiaries how can anyone possibly know what the truth is? Could they possibly make things anymore complicated??? (That’s rhetorical. The answer is obviously no, they couldn’t complicate things more if they tried.)
Good luck. I can’t wait for the docu series to come out on this… I’m sure it will get 100% on the tomato 🍅 meter.

Hi Sonia my writing style is masculine? Not sure what that means. mP is ok many things are closed because of the pandemic but the weather is perfect. I have no idea about Petaluma.
Interesting how you predict how many years anyone has left on this earth. Im turning 44 this month. I could only have today left. And by the way, I have no stress so who knows about these things.🤷🏼‍♀️

My Dad’s turning 77 next Sunday. He’ll live forever… funny 66,44,77 (Are you a Leo too?).
I’m not predicting anyone’s death. That was a joke. Personally, I don’t believe the day of one’s death is predestined.
It seems all my relatives have lived waaaaaay past their expiry date. 77 is young in my family. Lol
I will say I’m a bit jealous of the weather you’re having. I could literally live in a tent if I was given the opportunity. Or the majority of my time on a screened in porch. There’s nothing quite like fresh air and nature. Big houses and buildings are way overrated. Every truly beautiful home is more of a garden than a roof and walls and ventilation. It doesn’t cost much either. (Just don’t need the bugs.)

“So please, feel free to continue believing in dinosaurs. I like to picture them as pink and fluffy with squeaky voices, you?”
manjit,
Indeed, the element of surprise! Who’d expect creatures so girlish imposing a reign of terror 80 million years long?
Are we truly in Kali Yuga? Sri Yukteswar figured we’re already three centuries into Dwapara Yuga, having exited Kali Yuga in 1699. Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev too, but he places us 2,522 years into Dwapara Yuga with Treta Yuga only 70 years away.
I lean toward Sri Yukteswar in that the year 1699 corresponds broadly with the Scientific Revolution, the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, utterly transforming life on Earth. Newton published Principia Mathematica in 1686.
On the other hand, Sadhguru might be right, because it’s not hard to imagine the need for big advances in only 70 years.

I highly doubt you question things any more than me, especially with the beliefs you have (many of which I find completely wierd and just plain NS to be honest). My more rational background makes me skeptical about virtually everything (which undoubtedly hamstrings me spiritually).
Buy hey believe what you must. If it makes you feel better about yourself, I won’t interfere. I get the feeling you’re more about telling yourself warm fuzzy stories and believing, rather than wanting the truth warts and all. Big difference. No kissy kissy kum ba yah group hugs for me. If it helps you, good, but I don’t think it does. Just my opinion.
Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 01, 2020 at 11:14 PM
I’m not afraid to question. I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong either. And I’m not afraid of what other people think—if I flip flop it’s because I question and then question my questioning. It’s a process. We all process differently.
For the record (based on one of your unpublished comments) I don’t have a bf. I’ve been married for 20 years. And if you asked my husband he’d tell you it’s only love that keeps us together. If he didn’t completely love me he would have left a long time ago. You can look at that however you want. I’m not All Bad. People who are “All Bad” aren’t lovable. Not lovable enough to stick with for 20 years anyway…
And I never blamed my dad. I don’t go to AA (yes I did briefly a while ago) and I’m anything but suicidal. I’m pretty happy actually. You don’t seem very happy. And most importantly, you don’t know me from Adam.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 01, 2020 at 11:14 PM
I’m not afraid to question. I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong either. And I’m not afraid of what other people think—if I flip flop it’s because I question and then question my questioning. It’s a process. We all process differently.
For the record (based on one of your unpublished comments) I don’t have a bf. I’ve been married for 20 years. And if you asked my husband he’d tell you it’s only love that keeps us together. If he didn’t completely love me he would have left a long time ago. You can look at that however you want. I’m not All Bad. People who are “All Bad” aren’t lovable. Not lovable enough to stick with for 20 years anyway…
And I never blamed my dad. I don’t go to AA (yes I did briefly a while ago) and I’m anything but suicidal. I’m pretty happy actually. You don’t seem very happy. And most importantly, you don’t know me from Adam.
Just wanted to get that off my chest.
Posted by: Sonia | August 02, 2020 at 09:36 PM
And believe me, I know what it’s like to stick with someone for the sole reason that you love them. You start questioning your own sanity for staying in a relationship when everything points to “its time to go”. Love is stupid sometimes. It’s not always blind, sometimes it’s just really stupid. You stick around for no sane rational reason.
Yeah, that’s a lot of fun… talk about karma.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | July 01, 2020 at 11:14 PM
I don’t think you’ve ever truly loved anyone in your entire life.
I’m also glad you can’t respond.

“How do you know I’m not a fraud?”
“How do you know I’m not a fraud?”Some know this better than HE Himself
(All illusion is fraud, . . some like-able)
777

“How do you know I’m not a fraud?”
“How do you know I’m not a fraud?”Some know this better than HE Himself
(All illusion is fraud, . . some like-able)
777
Posted by: 🌜🌞 777 💥💖 | August 03, 2020 at 01:26 PM
I’m not sure exactly what you mean but I do know that all of this is heartbreaking. To invest so many years with a guru who you believed was a perfect Master/GIHF/your best friend. It’s devastating. Why can’t he just clear his name? Why does he seem to keep getting deeper and deeper into karmic debt?
Is it because he’s powerless over a force more powerful than him?

I looked up the names we are given to use in Simran.
Jyot Niranjan means Lucifer/Satan… Who you gonna call?

I looked up the names we are given to use in Simran.
Jyot Niranjan means Lucifer/Satan… Who you gonna call?
Posted by: Jen | August 03, 2020 at 07:49 PM
Yeeeeah… the Sikhs really dislike the Radhasoamis and that’s high up on their list of criticisms. They say the 5 names Satsangis use are the names associated with Kal or the negative power. Actually he’s the power you’d want to go to if you’re interested in worldly things like money, fame, sex… etc.

Jen,
I found this online from a blogger:
“KAL IS WATCHING YOU !
Like other spiritual teachings Rahasoami knows a big personification of all evil forces, the KAL Niranjan , the lord of time(Kala – niranjan is also a name of Shiva), who had fallen off because he had his own plans and wanted to have his own ”loka” – Satpurush became angry about that and created the lower planes out of him ( where erverything is foreordained….. so even the fall of niranjan ?).
(But, as Guru Huzur admitted, hiddenly Radhasoami works in all things). This KAL is similar to the fallen Lucifer Satanas of Jacob Lorber, who was thrown down into the lower worlds after a hard examination by the lord for ”true godlove”.
Only the Jainism knows a similar cosmic Lokapurusha .
In reality this is the result of the various forces of Maya under the influence of the atmic light and then indirect of KALA, the time, ie. the four lower planes of hinduism, with Rudra and Kali as the personification of the evil on the buddhic or causal plane.”
(a little disturbing to say the least)
They probably should have been a little more choosey when selecting names. Although maybe that’s where the focus is and part of the reason RSSB has expanded so rapidly with massive facilities all over India and abroad.
It’s interesting how people have described vastly different but very powerful stories about the current guru. Some say they literally feel like they’re transported to a powerful state of spiritual bliss in his presence and on the extreme opposite end some say they feel a terrible dread in his presence. I heard stories from some of Charan Singh’s initiates who describes this “dread” when they were standing very close to GSD soon after he was made guru.
Then of course there are the numerous Satsangis who get up in front of the Master at evening Q&As at Dera and ask him why they feel absolutely nothing. They describe it as no love but don’t associate it with fear.
The answer I’m sure has more to do with the nature of projection.
Or it could be a sixth sense. I’m no expert. 🤷‍♀️ But I personally believe he’s extremely psychic. Nothing more than that though.

Jyot means “light”.
Seems all the major religions and cults have passed on basically the same teachings to each other.
“The Latin word “lucifer” means “morning star” or, as an adjective, “light-bringing.” But today the name is a synonym for the devil. In Christian tradition, Lucifer was used as the proper name of the devil before his fall from grace. In popular culture Lucifer is synonymous with the devil or Satan.”
Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity and Radhasoami all share some story of an angel that used to be good but was cast out of heaven and eventually cast from the heavens to the earth. Christians in their prophesies about the end of times believe this Lucifer/Jyot Niranjan is cast into human form during the end times. Which in a way is quite interesting. And according to the Bible he has “great wrath” once he realizes he’s been confined to the earthly realm. But he is the Angel of Light and according to the Bible continues to “deceive the nations” by continuously appearing as an angel of light.
I think the end times prophesies are totally whack (until I think about how messed up the world is). But it’s really really dark and I prefer my religion to be all kuchycoo kumbaya.

Dr Phil. : Stop your inner dialogue
777

I would literally give anything to see GSD run through the Golden Temple screaming “burn all the books!”
That would take care of all my problems.

It would be really creepy if Christians had a 5 holy names mantra like RSSB. I mean, keeping with similar hierarchy of gods it would go something like “Lucifer, Morning Star, Jesus, Yahweh, I Am”

Hi Anami! 🙂 You asked: “Are we truly in Kali Yuga?”
I have absolutely no idea (or concern :), but was merely relaying the commonly held belief within RS doctrine that we have been in the “kali yuga” for many centuries, based on the quotes within the SGGS which appear to make that claim: “The Dark Age of Kali Yuga is the knife, and the kings are butchers; righteousness has sprouted wings and flown away. In this dark night of falsehood, the moon of Truth is not visible anywhere.
I have searched in vain, and I am so confused;in this darkness, I cannot find the path.””
SGGS, page 145
Hi Sonia! I hope your brother is recovering well from his surgery….:)
Regarding that Quora article – interesting, thanks for sharing! I liked what the author is saying. It’s an incredibly complex, multi-layered issue which isn’t easily reducible to this or that absolutist position, imo. Personally, I think these kind of “paranormal” or “psychic” phenomena will inevitably increase the more porous or dissolved the boundaries of “self” or “I” become, and connection to all beings and reality is “felt” for increasingly stable amounts of time? Some (serious scientists, philosophers and academics) would speculate this is due to a lessening of the brain’s filtering of reality, consciousness and all that is. However, I would not be at all surprised if incredibly self-obsessed people, possibly psychopaths, could also “manifest” unusually high levels of some types of “paranormal” phenomena around them, with the psychokinesis of poltergeist activity, or other paranormal phenomena “induced” by either deeply repressed psychological crises in the “subconscious” (whatever the freaking hell that may be :), or intensive states of concentration etc.
Re “It’s a numerology thing”, “Sorry, I’m foggy right now. It’s 144,000 divided by 666 = 216.216216
216 is the number related to Gevurah.” and 777’s “there is also MS’s patent 060606 on nano RFID chips”…
Funnily enough, some 24 odd years ago, a totally bat shit crazy but eminently “supported” theory occurred to me. I was in a Kabbalah study phase, and it occurred to me to look at the letter/s associated with 6 in the deep rooted system of letter-number associations in ancient Hebrew and Chaldean numerological systems, which it is highly likely the author (John the Elder?) of Revelation would have been aware of. So I thought it somewhat surprising, just around the dawn of the internet, that the only letter associated with “6” is v/w – “vauh”, which is the only Hebrew letter that corresponds with the English “W”. So, 666 is literally WWW in Hebrew and Chaldean numerology:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/49/6e/c0496eb8ac5daa7da65673506f729f31.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/22/97/f8/2297f81f32362a5b55c4c74f5775327a.jpg
https://power-of-numbers.96network.com/images/chaldeantable.jpg
etc
Now if that isn’t enough, I dare anyone to read Revelation and not see great parts of it as describing the use of the internet, ie. WWW !!! 😮 I wrote about this on the RSS forum some 10 years:
https://groups.io/g/RadhasoamiStudies/message/124937
I don’t go into much details because, like now, I could’t be bothered – just read Revelation to understand (and keep in mind MS Windows opening sequence, with the clouds :). I wonder if the nutty author of Revelation didn’t, indeed, peer into the future and catch skewed glance of all humanity using windows to do their shopping…..and was horrified by the thought…..and didn’t spend enough time to realise they were actually loving it immensely! 🙂
Of course, this entire theory is absolutely nonsensical bullshite, but it is better supported bullshite than most lazy conspiracy theories 🙂
Re the online blogger who wrote: “Like other spiritual teachings Rahasoami knows a big personification of all evil forces, the KAL Niranjan , the lord of time”
Well, this may well be true. However it goes without saying that “Niranjan” in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is a term synonymous with “Sat Purush”, with no difference whatsoever. It is only in the much later evolution of the cosmology and doctrine of RS did “Niranjan” devolve into merely being the ruler of the “1st region” of sahansdal kanwal: “Āpe āp niranjan so▫e.~He Himself is Immaculate and Pure.”, SGGS, page 2, “Aisā nām niranjan ho▫e.~Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.” SGGS, page 3 multiple times!, “So purakẖ niranjan har purakẖ niranjan har agmā agam apārā.~That Primal Being is Immaculate and Pure. The Lord, the Primal Being, is Immaculate and Pure. The Lord is Inaccessible, Unreachable and Unrivalled.” page 10, “akul niranjan apar parampar saglee jot tumaaree. ~ He has no ancestry; He is immaculate. He is infinite and endless; O Lord, Your Light is pervading all.” SGGS, page 597 etc etc. Enter “niranjan” here:
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Search&Param=roman
To see many dozens if not hundreds of references to “niranjan” in the SGGS, and see if you can spot the glaring inconsistency with traditional RS claims about Niranjan? Then try “Onkar”, I haven’t done it myself but know with certainty Onkar is not considered ruler of the 3rd region or whatever, but is in fact entirely identical to “Sat Purush”. Indeed, Onkar is given the prominence of being the 2nd word of the entire SGGS!
Ah well, who knew the poets of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, what with their blatant positive and glowing references to breath control, kundalini, niranjan and onkar were agents of Kal after all!? Well, according to a strict interpretation of RS dogma anyway…..;)
Hi Jen – thank you for your really rather wonderful response to that other thread. Beautiful! 🙂
Hi Tim – thank you for your kind and as always very thoughtful comments 🙂
Hey OshoR – how’s it going brother? 🙂 You wrote in the “RSSB guru asks a good question….” blog comments, “hence listening is the hardest thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nSMi0whFEA
listen to this closely
and part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKOI_N-nvzM
but inevitably you will listen with preconceptions – hence you cannot hear what he says.”
Haha, excellent. I truly love the, errrm, other Osho (don’t get jealous, I love your Oshoing too :). A most delightful speaker with clearly very deep and intense “realisation”. I do wonder though, if that occasional “vague” look in his eyes was a reflection of his later-life drug abuse (no, not the fun drugs my fellow fungonautic fiends, the very, very bad sort 🙂 ? Nonetheless, he remains a peerless speaker, with more life and mischievousness than most, even if the drug addiction was problematic……

Hi Manjit,
My brother is doing really well now. Thanks for asking. 🙂
You wrote:
Personally, I think these kind of “paranormal” or “psychic” phenomena will inevitably increase the more porous or dissolved the boundaries of “self” or “I” become, and connection to all beings and reality is “felt” for increasingly stable amounts of time? Some (serious scientists, philosophers and academics) would speculate this is due to a lessening of the brain’s filtering of reality, consciousness and all that is. However, I would not be at all surprised if incredibly self-obsessed people, possibly psychopaths, could also “manifest” unusually high levels of some types of “paranormal” phenomena around them, with the psychokinesis of poltergeist activity, or other paranormal phenomena “induced” by either deeply repressed psychological crises in the “subconscious” (whatever the freaking hell that may be :), or intensive states of concentration etc.
Me:
This reminds me of the movie ‘The Cell’ starring Jennifer Lopez. It came out in 2000 I think. It was about getting inside the minds of serial killers using psychic abilities.
No doubt if psychic abilities are real they aren’t exclusive to benevolent people. Believe it or not the FBI and CIA both have special units that work on solving crimes of psychopaths that possibly have “psychic” abilities.
It all sounds so weird, I know. But it’s interesting nevertheless.

After my husband’s service with South African special forces he was approached by three different agencies and offered a great deal of money to train soldiers for special missions. Ultimately he turned down two of the offers and took on one of the offers temporarily until he realized it was somewhat criminal—targeting citizens in his own country. But the American agency that tried to recruit him offered him an insane amount of money to train soldiers in Rwanda. He knew the crazy amount of money was due to the fact that it was basically a suicide mission.
That’s when he decided to come to America. He didn’t want to work for the “Americans” he just wanted to be free of the horrifically corrupt apartheid government. Of course, I’m hindsight both governments in SA were corrupt. We take a lot for granted here in America. But as an American citizen you stand a much better chance of being able to live a somewhat sane and normal life.

“””. I try to explain my relationship with reality. “””
This is all about comfortable worrying
77

I try to explain my relationship with reality
OF course the utimate Solution is
to really know that You are The Creator!
777

Attn. Dera- and The sangat,…………..considering you are in the Inner Circle,….. please ask Gurinder Singh if he will take the COVID-19 Vaccinate as soon as it comes out, and if he recommends Satsangis to also take it, or will. Satsangi’s be exempt from COVID-19 infections, and may rely on protection from the Master. Or, perhaps some one can ask him this question in Q & As. Thanks.
Jim Sutherland
Posted by: Jim Sutherland | August 09, 2020 at 09:19 AM
I would”t expect such question from U. Jim
We don’t ask Him what medication He recommends 4cancer
5 vaccine are coming plus a Russian
At my age, I ll take nothing – never did – Now we hear that no flue vaccine ever wprked
My take is that this is common flue plus this year new neuro-pesticides
working on the breath centre
Specially industrial strawberries took my breath away – really – checked 3 times
first time combined with flue
I wish U many seconds of not thinking & Love
nice to see you again here
777

@Believing , . . so important
Thank U Mr. Osho for the link, I had never seen
and I find a very “clear” compilation of the RSSB Path
Of course one needs a pill within to understand
Personally I didn’t see all, everything that was in the descriptions
but my wife has and lives in both worlds (here & “above”) 24/7 together with Charan!
I was, as I have already explained in comments rather quick ‘sucked’
into the ever present Sound ; equally : I was Charan : being where HE was
at the top of what you read here:
https://santmatradhasoami.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-ascension-of-soul-sant-mat-e.html
The soul presently enters into the very chambers of the ultimate Lord, and the meeting that ensues is described by Swami Shiv Dayal as involving a sort of password given in response to the Lord’s command. As the soul “pushes forward,” it “beholds Sat Nam smiling in bliss. Out of his lotus-like appearance comes a voice: ‘Who are you, and why did you come here?’ The soul replies, ‘A true guru instructed me in the secrets. By his graciousness I have received the grace of your presence, 0 Lord.’ And as the soul beholds the sight of the Lord it becomes greatly enraptured.”72
After that brief encounter, the soul rushes directly into the form of the highest Lord and “becomes one with Him in an ecstasy°° of Divine Love and intense bliss.”73 The soul has finally reached its home. The journey is over. (“Radhasoami Reality,” Mark Juergensmeyer, Princeton University Press, ISBN 0-691-07378-3)
_______
So
We both confirm all what is written above
It’s all love
I understand that the term I used in my comments “hyper orgasm above our eyes” °°
was not used by the mystics
but Orgasm isThat what it is, . . . . . forever
777

Economic Times of India put out out an article yesterday. Title of the article:
“Ex-Religare promoter Malvinder Singh accuses Radha Soami Satsang head of misusing influence”
Malvinder keeps doing this. Not sure what the reasoning is behind this, but he keeps doing it. There is possibly some truth to his accusations, and Sunil Godhwani probably is the gatekeeper on this since GSD was the one one him installed as CEO. Who knows? Could be blowing a smoke screen over this as well. At any rate, doesn’t make for good publicity for Gurinder Singh.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/ex-religare-promoter-malvinder-singh-accuses-radha-soami-satsang-head-of-misusing-influence/articleshow/77498328.cms

I thought a long time that Malvinder was Shivinder vice versa
just because the one ressembling Charan gave me good feel to see
Evennow I personally regret this son of NIMI is still in the heat of prison life
and not on bail like the two others!
It “s no doubt the quickest way to burn some karma of maybe
a billion years ago
https://rssb.org/essay112.html
F.I.
About 250 of RSSB’s centers all across the country were converted into shelters and isolation facilities where stranded migrant workers were warmly welcomed and cared for by loving sevadars, like valued guests in their own home.
Extensive arrangements were also made by RSSB to prepare food for anyone hungry and needy. The Society provided the ingredients, prepared and provided the food, and distribution was arranged through local administrations. So far, more than 24 million food packets have been dispensed over a 30-day period, across 19 states throughout the country. And more than 22,000 sevadars volunteer daily to accomplish this gigantic effort.

Thank you 777 for sharing the information of the enormous Seva going on. Can you share a link as well? I’ve read articles about the free COVID hospital, largest in India, created at one of the RSSB sites, and I would like to read about this food and shelter Seva, too.

@Spence.
Nice to see U
It is
https://rssb.org/essay112.html
I must often think ; when catholics proclaim
that the Pope is perfect with what he says
but only in matters of Faith & Ethics
How to apply to a living Sat Guru
Can a Satguru have Alzheimer? (. not a special statement on GSD )
I think : Yes
Gilles de la Touret. : I think even Yes
All this comes to my statement when I entered this blog
and possibly was the first fanatic RSSB-er , saying
HE DOESN’T KNOW!
Like with us : It’s all Serendipities, Miracles and yes Multipositioning
God Himself is a Great Funny Guy/Gurl
I have still my take on GooseBumps, perhaps U remember
The greatness of Sant Mat is : It makes us invincible and calm
and all of orgasmes above our eyes
when the first 5 chakras are out-played
without to much karma_generation
Let’s pray for GSD and NIMI and family
I rest my case
77 7

Hi 777
It depends on how one views the world.
I set it as a magical world.
So for me this body is only what Shakespeare wrote, a bloody and decaying vesture. Therefore the Master can wear any set of clothes that suits him. And he can abuse it as he sees fit. What we call abuse is a matter of interpretation. In theory he uses it for the purpose of helping the world. And that can be a dirty job sometimes. We don’t blame a mechanic for getting grease on his clothes, and all over himself. We don’t blame a soldier for stepping on a land mine to make a field safe for others. But they are not looking in great shape. So if we understand, at least in theory, we can justify it for ourselves. But this is all a mental function. Because the justification for Shabd is living in it. Then it is we, in these wrappings, who don’t really have any justification for staying here and no excuse for being here… Especially when the soldier assigned to defend us is torn to pieces in the open field.
“How sweet the moonlight sleeps upon this bank!
Here will we sit and let the sounds of music
Creep in our ears: soft stillness and the night
Become the touches of sweet harmony.
Sit, Jessica. Look how the floor of heaven
Is thick inlaid with patines of bright gold:
There’s not the smallest orb which thou behold’st
But in his motion like an angel sings,
Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubins;
Such harmony is in immortal souls;
But whilst this muddy vesture of decay
Doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it.”
Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, Act 5, scene 1

777,
Unknowingness. Perhaps. Like Faqir Chand.

ANAMI SAID :
777,
Unknowingness. Perhaps. Like Faqir Chand. Posted by: anami | August 16, 2020 at 01:38 PM
me:
Not quite so
The faqir Chand made a kind of sceptic fun (plus accusations) of it –
It is not
It’s more fundamental than any law of physics
and a “professional” haha) Satguru knows it up to in his bones
as some disciples also do
Like the Love and the orgasmic meditation , it’s not stable
I mean : there are fluctuations
I guess , like the serendipities, a sinusoid in/upon a sinusoide,
they say “rings within rings” , bells within bells, even Love within Love
Simran here is The BIG REGULATOR in all this, even of the Sweetness of The Sound
as if you direct Starship Enterprise or Galactica with your mind/Soul
We may do it if we deeply feel that HE is The Big Doer
A little bit the inverse/opposite of when we jumped in creation and lost His Divine Hand
777

Hm. 777
I like your description, that Simran is the big regulator, the steam engine governor that doesn’t let things spin too far out of control.

“Satguru knows it up to in his bones”
777,
In my wife’s eyes, GSD is just another corrupt religious leader. Why all the money? It’s the only thing she sees.
Is he putting up a smokescreen?

@Spence.
Nice to see U
It is
https://rssb.org/essay112.html
I must often think ; when catholics proclaim
that the Pope is perfect with what he says
but only in matters of Faith & Ethics
77 7
Posted by: 💖 💥 7 77 💥 💖 | August 16, 2020 at 10:30 AM
I’m volunteering with Red Cross now. Disaster Recovery for all sorts of natural disasters. The Red Cross is politically and religiously neutral. 91 cents on the dollar goes towards all of their humanitarian efforts. That’s really good for a charity. With COVID the Disaster Recovery training and program has had to adjust and make major changes avoiding putting hundreds of people into a single facility…

If there is a hierarchy of heavens, only vegans are going to the top.
https://pin.it/6qGiqmg

@Only. ONE
Thought for atheists
wouldn’t it be a disappointing blasphemy
if the were created by somebody else
They are even more prone to accepting the hard
fact that they personally are Purusha
but less than Rumi like people
Even an ant is HIM/HER
So nice sweet ridlle
We never ever not existed
777

@Anami – Smokescreen
@Spence
Even another Saint doesn’t see the fine tuning
What karma had the shareholders?
How much they lost ( if any ) – How many are saved with the food assistance
As I said – What happened a Billion Years ago or before the Big Bang
How blowed the wind on Creation Day? (Mirdad)
I must confess
As a lousy Charan disciple, another wording for manmukh
I saw Gurinder once in broad day light FULL enlightened ( light ) ( in another comment )
and once inside when Charan pushed Him to me
Also, when looking at Him “The Plume of my headgear shivers”
Also the fact that these buildings HE erected give me Darshan too
and I wrote
How about Malvinder – and Nimi
So I trust Gurinder – also appreciated the 69 fun and Ibiza (not far from here)
and Spence
You wrote. “We don’t blame a soldier for stepping on a land mine to make a field safe for others. But they are not looking in great shape. So if we understand, at least in theory, we can justify it for ourselves.”
777

Anami wrote: “In my wife’s eyes, GSD is just another corrupt religious leader. Why all the money? It’s the only thing she sees.
Is he putting up a smokescreen?”
Hi Anami – I enjoy your obviously sincere and open minded curiosity about the path and guru you have chosen….imo it speaks well of the sincerity of your “search”, which, imo, is of supreme importance in this quest some of us share for the truth about consciousness, existence, creation, reality, “God” etc……far more important than “path”, “practice”, “guru” etc…….like the story told in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and “authenticated” by the 5th Sikh Guru, Arjan Dev, Dhana Bhagat achieved “God realisation” purely through sincere and deep devotion to a stone/pebble…..no hint or trace of a Satguru, shabd yoga, initiation etc Personally, although this story has been bizarrely questioned by a devout RSSB apologist in online discussions because it contradicted the religious dogma he believed in, I feel this should be an immense relief for RSSB initiates, many of whom were initiated by a guru who claimed of himself “I feel like a stone idol in a temple. According to their notions of love, some bathe it with cold water, some with hot water, and some deck it in fine clothes; but still it is an idol all the same.”, and the rest probably initiated by the guru currently heavily implicated in a huge scale fraud that without question has obscenely enriched himself and his family, even if in the highly unlikely scenario he wasn’t the mastermind behind the failed scheme, and other associated unpleasantness like death threats etc
Your wife sounds like a profoundly wise and decent person. I imagine her as the true Saint in your relationship, despite your dalliance with external “spirituality”…..I’d call her a keeper, Anami 🙂 🙂
The question really isn’t is Gugu “putting up a smokescreen”, or why your wife “only” sees the money……the question really is, why do you see anything else? That’s the only question that matters. In my observations and discussions with RS satsangis, it appears to me the real basis for considering these various Singhs as anything other than mundane leaders of religions with the usual petty (and not so petty, in Gugu’s case!) desires, character flaws, occasionally silly ideas and beliefs etc, is the CONCEPTUAL basis of the beliefs and dogma of RS, which portrays a magical, mythic image of what a “Satguru” is. Once this belief has been accepted at some conscious or subconscious level, one begins to filter all one’s experiences through this belief set, projects it upon the person of the guru (regardless of how “authentic” they may or may not be, how much actual personal interaction there may or may not be…..there is no limit to how much illusion the mind can generate!) and literally everything will support or confirm those beliefs. This is not unique to the religion of RS.
In my observation, for the majority of RS satsangis who comment online, a “mystic” is essentially defined as anybody who is chosen to be a guru by the previous guru/family-elder, however unqualified, or anybody that grew up and spent time at Beas or with Sawan since childhood. For me, this is a very peculiar definition of “mystic”? I’ve been reading/hearing stories of “mystics” from all over the globe, all traditions and times etc since before I could read, and in all the life stories, meditations, tribulations etc, I never came across this kind of institutionalised “mysticism”….in fact, it seems rather antithetical to the spirit of the “mystic” as I have understood (and experienced 🙂 it…..but each to their own level of understanding. Personally, I see nothing in the lifes of Charan or Gurinder to suggest they are “mystics”, other than the sheer fact of their position within a worldly organisation? Indeed, I deeply question the value or reality of the realisation of even Soamiji, Jaimal and Sawan, too……where they really “mystics”…….or “psychics”………perhaps, even, dare I say it, psychic vampires? Do you think there is a difference between mystics and psychics? I notice Spencer demanded from Osho “to prove” “Oneness” by reading his mind…….this is a psychic trick within duality, nothing at all to do with the experiential insight of “Oneness”, there needs must be two to read minds. Now, that it is not to say such parlour tricks are impossible, I have experienced enough (and seen enough scientific research proving it is possible too) to know these things are not impossible, if one has enough egoic desire to channel in certain occult directions. But this is duality, and nothing to do with the real existential and direct awareness of the “unity” of all things. Ironically, Spencer followed a guru for decades who clearly insinuates in the literature of his religion that such parlour tricks are easy for the “Satguru”. Despite dedicating himself for years to this path which makes extreme dualistic claims, I sincerely doubt Spencer ever demanded for Charan or Gurinder to “prove it” by reading their minds? And yet he expects Osho to prove it without even once doing darshan of his tremendously radiant face? Ahh, Grand Irony and blind-spots abound, it is all a game of ego, preference, concepts, beliefs etc….reality has nothing at all to do with it!
So the question I’m interested in is, why precisely do you think there IS something “more” to Gurinder than your wife has observed? What exactly, from his life, teachings or experiences, makes you think he has a level of understanding, knowledge or experience that transcends the bums on this forum, for example? I’m genuinely interested!
If it comes to beautiful subjective experiences in or away from his physical presence, miracles etc then we really are playing with a losing hand……which of any of the sixteen thousand four hundred and seventy-three shabd yoga gurus in the world, however corrupt, dishonest or fraudulent they may be, doesn’t have disciples who defend them to the death, claiming all sorts of wonderful miracles and experiences in their presence? When will we state the obvious, it is the disciple who has all the “juice”, and the guru really does nothing at all that anybody else can’t do!?
I also really liked this comment of yours in response to Osho’s Oneness comments: “On the golf course of enlightenment that step of realization could be one of the front nine only or a sand trap.”
Yes, indeed my friend, NOW we’re talking!!!
But…..how do YOU know that the religion of RS isn’t merely the club-house before you go out to play for real? How WOULD you know? How would you know that any and every vision seen inside, including “Sach Khand”, isn’t merely an illusion, or the 2nd hole of the front nine? Have you read the Yoga-Vasistha? It has beautiful discussions around this very theme, highly recommended.
Yes, “Oneness”…..I have heard and seen countless “levels” of understanding and awareness of this “truth”, ranging from psychological depersonalisation, to psychological awareness of “no-self”, through a whole variety of states of consciousness people call “enlightenment”, “Oneness”, “liberation” etc. Indeed, I have had dreams many many years ago where from within the dream I was saying “I am awake, I am enlightened” etc, and truly believed it to be so…..but alas, I was not even lucid, I was merely parroting the words “I am enlightened” in a state of ignorant delusion! So who can tell who or what is “ultimately realised” or even “partially realised”, or if such a thing is even possible!
In regards the conceptual confusion people who clearly have not experienced any significant degree of “no-self”, or the imo deeper “Oneness”, between the idea of non-duality and the fact of embodied, dualistic existence, semantics will never be able to adequately describe the situation, it is something that can only be experienced directly imo. However, I do believe the philosophy of Kashmiri Shaivism, as told by Harish Johari, is one of the most exquisite, beautiful and in my personal experience, accurate descriptions of deep “mystical experience” known to man. In it, it clearly describes multiplicity in Oneness, as well as Oneness in multiplicity.
But beyond all these teachings and concepts, I think the whole situation is a lot simpler than many imagine it to be, heavily loaded and burdened with a heap of unexamined concepts they have swollen wholesale, like transmigration, karma, the role of Satguru (ie., an intermediary between one’s own “soul” and the “divine”) etc. The question really isn’t which path is highest, which realisation is ultimate and which realisation is delusion etc…..none of this matters, and we’ll never know, because even when we think we know, we may well be….in fact most likely are…..deluded. The question really is, before you started seeking and following a spiritual path like RS for eg., there must have been a sense of incompleteness, suffering, unfulfilled desire, existential angst, fear of death etc Otherwise, you simply would not seek. The answer, then, is simply, has your path, practice, meditation, beliefs etc led you to complete and total satisfaction, completeness, peace etc? Has it completely satisfied all one’s desires, resolved all one’s fears, and made one feel literally blessed and full of gratitude in every breath? That, literally, is all that matters! The rest is all empty narratives of worldly people trapped in conceptual fantasies about afterlives and cosmologies they literally will never know is objectively true or not (yes, you can have infinite visions of this and that – I have had infinite such visions myself – but it doesn’t mean they are true, even if synchronicity or miracles appear to confirm it….just more proof of the malleability, power, and inter-connectivity of the mind and the universe, or maya).
It really doesn’t matter if you’re on the 1st hole, or the 18th hole, whether you’re confusing psychological depersonalisation with the most supreme state of tantric ecstasy/non-duality/sach khand………if you’re miserable (life-denying, escapist, still feel incomplete, still feel unsure/have doubts, do not feel perpetual joy, clarity, awe, love, compassion etc) when you leave the 18th hole, you’ve lost the game. If, however, stuck on the 1st hole, but you feel absolute joy, happiness, ecstasy, gratitude, love etc, such deep ecstasy that you forget you’re even on a golf course? Well, that sounds pretty much like the winner in the game of golf to me………as I say, the rest are childish stories and fantasies told by people who clearly and almost certainly self-admittedly haven’t “realised”, are not genuinely and utterly dissolved in the joy and ecstasy (permanent, steady, clear, tranquil – not manic ups and downs over months or even years, like being bi-polar for example) of whatever form of “spirituality” they follow, and indeed for whom that dualistic story-telling is itself a symptom of their own sense of “unsatisfactoriness”.
Imo, of course 🙂 Peace! 🙂

@ and the rest probably initiated by the guru currently heavily
@ implicated in a huge scale fraud that without question has
@ obscenely enriched himself and his family, even if in the highly
@ unlikely scenario he wasn’t the mastermind behind the failed
@ scheme, and other associated unpleasantness like death threats
@ etc
Or “the rest” could wait for the forensic accountants and courts
to weigh in. Oh, but freighted with obvious inferences of guilt
and corruption, this is a quintessential moment for conspiracy
theories. Take off those blinders. None so blind as he who will
not see.
Need we remind the RSSB flock of those death threats against
Malvinder? We’ll soft-pedal it a bit and call it “unpleasantness”
for now. Clearly, though, if you’re not wrapped in total denial,
there’s a strong, dare I say near bullet-proof, case he was
implicated in Shabnam’s sad demise to cover up criminality too.
Maybe a final, passionate kiss of death, then… “We can’t let
the family go down, Shabi. I never had anything against you
personally. it’s just business.”
Murderous, greedy, land grabbing, filthy rich, and protected by
an impenetrable web of corrupt India officialdom, what more
needs saying of a “guru gone bad”.

@ If, however, stuck on the 1st hole, but you feel absolute joy, happiness,
@ ecstasy, gratitude, love etc, such deep ecstasy that you forget you’re
@ even on a golf course? Well, that sounds pretty much like the winner in
@ the game of golf to me………as I say, the rest are childish stories and
@ fantasies
Beautiful. That’s the essence of mysticism in my opinion.

Sant Huzur Maharaj Manjit Singh Ji Bhagwan Baba Soami Ji wrote: “The question really isn’t which path is highest, which realisation is ultimate and which realisation is delusion etc…..none of this matters, and we’ll never know, because even when we think we know, we may well be….in fact most likely are…..deluded.”
When I was a child and throughout my early adulthood, I had this intense passion and drive to experience and/or understand the ultimate nature of “Reality” and/or “God”, whatever the cost. I imagined this to be a state of human consciousness of complete all-knowing-ness, all-powerful-ness, utterly ecstatic in the sense of bliss or pleasure etc
It is truly a strange mystery, at least to me, that now I can “access” all states of bliss, visionary experience, ecstasy etc, that all of these now seem as worthless as a pile of straw.
It is only now, in my early 40s ( and after almost 4 full decades of intense searching :), that I realise what the great mystics were truly saying. It is not about egoic bliss states, it is about love & compassion. And that is the entirety of the path, the entirety of it’s fruits, the entirety of it’s purpose. Compassion, love, tolerance, charity, foregiveness, understanding, etc.
Although I understood it conceptually – I imagined these gurus were merely giving us moral guidance to prepare us for the amazing fruit of eternal egoic bliss! – I never truly understood the heart of what they were saying:
I never understood why Guru Nanak, immediately after his “realisation” of Sach Khand and transition from mere human to the Guru we all know, declared his first words: “there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim”. No, his opening words were not about Shabd, the “Satguru”, “Reincarnation”, “karma” or what not…..he felt it more important to declare a more fundamental, down to earth truth: There is no hindu, there is no muslim”
https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/There_is_no_Hindu_and_no_Musalman
I never understood why Jesus before leaving this realm revealed a new commandment – not anything to do with Shabd, Gurus, karma or meditation……but that his disciples “love another”. That is all.
Or why mahayana buddhists take the bodhisattva vow, to not become “liberated” until all other beings are “liberated” first. I remember some 15 odd years ago reading a book written by the extremely well respected and revered buddhist meditation master Nan Hui Chin, who basically reduced his truly profound and prodigious meditation experiences, his entire “enlightenment” to, well, his behaviour and conduct in real life……that was the sum total of his entire decades long intensive meditation practices! Behaviour; compassion, love, forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, equanimity, charity, kindness etc
That is all. That is all.
I never understood it. And now I do! The rest is all fantasy & delusion, 1st hole of the front nine bullshit.
All we have is compassion, love, forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, charity, kindness etc. The rest is illusion.

intense passion and drive to experience and/or understand the ultimate nature of “Reality” and/or “God”, whatever the cost.
But. later U r sating : Love
So, . . . Love Who, What ?
The Shabd, . . . any help ?
A perfect Master, eventually a complete Master (sounds somewhat technical, a Saint )
A Lovely Master , who triggers U into the Crown Center
There are all kind of nice ways to nice targets
but what is more comfortable than falling in Love, Crazy love
Then U love the Shabd, The Son and The Father (all three are Simran)
Blessed those who catch it
777

“So the question I’m interested in is, why precisely do you think there IS something “more” to Gurinder than your wife has observed? What exactly, from his life, teachings or experiences, makes you think he has a level of understanding, knowledge or experience that transcends the bums on this forum, for example? I’m genuinely interested!”
manjit,
My wife says you’re correct about her.
Honestly, I don’t have the benefit of direct experience with GSD. I’ve been in his physical presence all of maybe two hours, once for satsang in San Francisco and once in Queens, NYC, both in the 1990’s. I just assumed Maharaj Ji would appoint a sant as successor. The Q&A videos aren’t much to go on, although his simple explanation of “Shabd Guru, Surat Dhun Chela” beat the gobbledygook on Sikh websites, and he’s good to encourage respect for other paths.

My prescription for you is to leave RSSB and anyone associated with it for at least two years. Have no contact or discussion about it. Do whatever meditation that gives you peace.
If you can set this boundary, you can protect yourself so that, finally, you can heal.
Then no one can affect you again on this matter.
Let yourself heal.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | August 19, 2020 at 12:47 PM
Talk about synchronicity, my lesson in ACIM today was lesson 200 which states this:
“There is no peace except the peace of God.
1. Seek you no further. You will not find peace except the peace of God. Accept this fact, and save yourself the agony of yet more bitter disappointments, bleak despair, and sense of icy hopelessness and doubt. Seek you no further. There is nothing else for you to find except the peace of God, unless you seek for misery and pain.
2. This is the final point to which each one must come at last, to lay aside all hope of finding happiness where there is none; of being saved by what can only hurt; of making peace of chaos, joy of pain, and Heaven out of hell. Attempt no more to win through losing, nor to die to live. You cannot but be asking for defeat.
3. Yet you can ask as easily for love, for happiness, and for eternal life in peace that has no ending. Ask for this, and you can only win. To ask for what you have already must succeed. To ask that what is false be true can only fail. Forgive yourself for vain imaginings, and seek no longer what you cannot find. For what could be more foolish than to seek and seek and seek again for hell, when you have but to look with open eyes to find that Heaven lies before you, through a door that opens easily to welcome you?
4. Come home. You have not found your happiness in foreign places and in alien forms that have no meaning to you, though you sought to make them meaningful. This world is not where you belong. You are a stranger here. But it is given you to find the means whereby the world no longer seems to be a prison house or jail for anyone….”
I’m not gonna copy and paste the whole lesson but it’s pointing to the same direction you suggested. ACIM is ALWAYS synchronous which is kinda unique.
I noticed this pattern (I guess it’s part of the letting go process) where I rotate between 3 things:
1. Some desperate grasping onto a philosophy and path that I invested 14 years of my life in.
2. Agnosticism
3. ACIM combined with Buddhism
I have much better results with the 3rd but need to stop holding onto the pain so that I can let go of the first item… which is my past. Need to let go of the past.
I think you’re right—it’s important to get away from all the reminders in order to have a fresh and more objective perspective. That way in a year or so the things that happened won’t carry the emotional weight that they do now.
Thanks 🙏

And, btw, I just opened the book and it opened to lesson 200 (which is the final lesson but the student workbook is in the middle of the entire book). I haven’t done all the other lessons—I’ve only read a handful of the lessons. So far, I’ve only read bits and pieces of the Text.
It may not be scientific but I do believe there’s a sort of Synchronicity that points the way when you stop staring at chaos all the time.

Hi Sonia
Nice!
Maybe you are ready now.
The only path that ever existed is the one in you. Leaving RSSB, clean, no ties, no connections, no regrets, no discussion, two years, will give you the chance to reconnect with the real path inside you. The two are not the same. They are entirely distinct. Entirely separate. Entirely independent. Own the path in you! That is the true path of love for God because it is a love that is loving you 24/7. That power supply is entirely harmless and helpful. It is shy and gentle. Protect it and nurture it.

Daniel Shapiro talks about the 5 core aspects of our Identity and why people have such a difficult time rationally accepting anything at odds with anything that threatens their identity.
1. Beliefs
2. Rituals—prayer, meditation, observed holidays, etc.
3. Allegiances—our loyalties
4. Values
5. Ethics
Don’t ever let these 5 core aspects of your identity become so fixed and rigid that you are unable to distinguish truth and reality from your personal experiences.

It’s incredible, Gurinder so badly wants to be this modern guru. But the truth is, his ideals are so closely aligned with old world Punjabi male ideals that he can’t even begin to understand the Western mindset. He has no place in the Western world. He needs to find himself a subservient, obedient Punjabi bride and retire. Perhaps with a new, truly modern guru RSSB will stand half a chance.

Sorry for the comments spree (or splurge as Georgy would call it. I’m going to slap him if I ever see him) but my ex-husband is atheist and the truth is he’s probably the most grounded person I know. “Grounded” didn’t interest me when he and I were together but now I value it as a scarce commodity. We’ve both grown so much over the years and we keep in touch on a weekly basis (as just friends). He somehow with just a few simple words has the ability to always remind me how ridiculous this whole guru thing is.
I’d like to believe that there’s life after death so I’ve chosen to believe in it just in case… but regardless of whether you do or don’t believe in life after death, logic should make it abundantly clear that no single person holds the key to salvation.

@ Jen and Osho on the other post – very nicely put. Helpful words for all of us.
I’m no‘New Ager’ (may have been a bit of one in the 80’s), but times surely are interesting and ‘difficult’. I’ve seen the fear in the eyes of a number of folk lately as they peer out from above their masks. The human race has a lot on. It also seems to me that in spite of the calls for kindness many folk are retreating into themselves with a lowering interest in others (planet included). Solution imo (without giving away your ‘personal power’ as Jen says) – keep replacing the fear and self-centredness with as Swami psilocybinanda (:-)) says: ‘compassion, love, forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, charity, kindness etc’, – in action as best we can.
Best wishes to all

🌼 777 🌼. Poor Betelgeuse
If replaced the sun its diameter would go further than Saturn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlmbxSarRKg
Compare with the subjects discussed
Only Shabd experiences are making Betelgeuse a tiny thing
777

Do you want to be always happy?
Then give up fighting
For negativity
And learn the beautiful art
Of self-encouragement.
– Sri Chinmoy

Seems very good Jen..
A ´beautiful art.´ of self -encouragement´

@SONIA. rightly said
And it’s hard to get around the “he’s just a teacher” argument when the foundation of a belief system rests upon GIHF.
Yes
The whole system is based on the fact
that nobody can unify enter the giant-ness of The Almighty
But one can unify by Love with a guy /girl who is already IN God but seems normal, a fraud
but not for a real seeker
777
As I said to a friend who inherited 90M, . . “Now you have to buy a “second hand
“deux chevaux” car

@
&BRIAN
“”” the perfect Buddhist sees thinking itself as just another set of circumstances, “””
THANK YOU for agreeing
Just stop the inner dialogue
Start with 5 seconds
<3
777

@SONIA. rightly said
And it’s hard to get around the “he’s just a teacher” argument when the foundation of a belief system rests upon GIHF.
Yes
The whole system is based on the fact
that nobody can unify enter the giant-ness of The Almighty
But one can unify by Love with a guy /girl who is already IN God but seems normal, a fraud
but not for a real seeker
777
As I said to a friend who inherited 90M, . . “Now you have to buy a “second hand
“deux chevaux” car
Posted by: 💜💜. 777.💜💜 | August 25, 2020 at 04:11 AM
When I think about it, really the only real issue I have had with GSD is his stance on mental illness—that he doesn’t understand it, thinks it’s not real or not a big deal. It all boils down to that.
But, you can’t expect one person to know or understand everything I guess. Even if that one thing is a really big thing. 🤷‍♀️

I guess there’s just such a stigma associated with it in his culture that he can’t get past that…

Sonia I was in Petaluma last year when the master was asked about depression and he told the questioner that he should be listen to the doctor and take the medicine prescribed to get better. I don’t think he doesn’t understand mental illness I think you didn’t understand his answer to you the reason you got that answer.
You have held a deep grudge over this for years now.

Sonia I was in Petaluma last year when the master was asked about depression and he told the questioner that he should be listen to the doctor and take the medicine prescribed to get better. I don’t think he doesn’t understand mental illness I think you didn’t understand his answer to you the reason you got that answer.
You have held a deep grudge over this for years now.
Posted by: Other Jen | August 27, 2020 at 02:10 PM
Gosh, Jen, you’re just like my husband. I haven’t held a deep grudge over this for “years” now. It’s only been 604 days. That’s less than two years.
I’m glad to hear he said that in Petaluma. That’s the first time I’ve heard that.
I didn’t really want to bring it up again other than to say (and I guess this was my point) that it was my last hurdle and I decided it doesn’t really matter anymore because I can prove to anyone that mental illness is real. 🙃 😅

Actually, 625 days but who’s counting. It really doesn’t matter anymore…

Sonia I was in Petaluma last year when the master was asked about depression and he told the questioner that he should be listen to the doctor and take the medicine prescribed to get better. I don’t think he doesn’t understand mental illness I think you didn’t understand his answer to you the reason you got that answer.
You have held a deep grudge over this for years now.
Posted by: Other Jen | August 27, 2020 at 02:10 PM
So, what is your interpretation of why he said what he said? And what do you think he meant by “you don’t want to know what I think about people with mental illnesses”?

I know about Jehova Witttnesses
but
As tattoos are forbidden by jewish law
I asked myself
How about gene modifications?
And within an hour I got the answer
http://themillenniumreport.com/2021/02/a-very-smart-rabbi-states-31-reasons-why-he-will-never-receive-a-covid-19-vaccine/?fbclid=IwAR3JtR4Iq7Pg3HAyC_FLWyoGBdYMFdplzSEw63DGgkw6JLuSJsowZEbILXc
💋 77 💋