Report on a Haynes Park Q & A with the RSSB guru

Sorry…your question to Gurinder wasn’t anything touching upon the bad loans? You had a chance to put a hard question about the scandal to Gurinder, in front of the sangat, and instead, you asked about “ek”?

All
Was there at Haynes also.
No change in atmosphere, no questions whatsoever about the financial concerns. No statement from GSD.
One question centered around sexuality and indulgence in that sphere. Question broadened out to ‘indulgence’ in general. Sat there and wondered if this includes ‘indulgence’ in gross and excessive financial dealings that were dodgy in the first place?
Was not in the mood to be preached to!
Even if further developments further implicate GSD, it is as expected that this will not touch the sangat in the slightest!
Further discussions with satsangi friend showed that people still do not trust or accept the alleged ‘facts’ raised on this blog in particular. There is suspicion of bias and prejudice and also not knowing what the ‘facts’ even are. Just reporting so make of this what you will!
Denial and faith go a long way, especially if there has been a long term investment (emotionally and intellectually) in a given way. They will override such mundane things as ‘facts’ all day long!

J,
Hopefully he will ask next month at the national satsangs

Excuse me but are you sure its RSS Beas satsangs you have been attending all these years? He only prescribes meditation. In His Satsangs, in the old books, in the new books. Dispeling Concepts & Illusions is only achieved through meditation. All the weekly satsangs around the world only prescribe meditation. Long time meditators only prescribe meditation. The more one begins focusing within, the more the desire for meditation. Baba Ji tells 500,000 satsangies that the Path is internal, and not outward, not towards a physical location or to toward an outward form. All the satsangs by Maharaj Ji (on CD’s ) drill at every single question the need for meditation. From the Sat Bachan to the children books, meditation to the Sound is the Path.
Thank you ORobbins nevertheless

From personal experience, having discussed “the facts” of the Indian courts ruling against GSD & his family, RS followers can’t accept these facts despite the lack of any challenge whatsoever from GSD himself.
Even individuals who I would declare as completely rational, become decidedly irrational in terms of accepting “the facts” laid out against GSD.
Conversely, non-RS followers, some of whom have absolutely no knowledge of GSD/RS beliefs, are clear to express their doubts about GSD’s integrity.
Unfortunately, until the ongoing SEBI investigation is concluded, we will remain in the current state of impasse.

Law came through Moses, Grace and Mercy came through Christ. Who is the criminal ?? People who have set up gun factories, people who sell guns and pellets or users of these guns and pellets. Kal traps the Soul by creating circumstances of crime. Who is criminal ?? Person who sells and creates alcohol in factories or the driver who under the influence of alcohol kills a pedestrian. Do these RSSB members Hindus, Sikhs and so called Christians have double standards?? When they become victims of crime they want to put the offenders to the gallows?? When they are offenders themselves, they joke and laugh plus talk about mercy and grace of Sant-Mat ??

J &G
I don’t have any interest in asking him about the financial scandal. If you are interested, then YOU ask.
I am far more interested in the ONE.
My view is that “perfection” doesn’t exist. Humans are humans, enlightened or not. Moral standards are not fixed. Enlightenment is not connected to moral standards.
RSSB puts the master on a pedestal. The teachings make him out to be a super human.
Enlightenment is an ordinary state. It just means Realization of the ONE.
Our whole life is concerned with “me”
We spend our whole life collecting things for “me”. Yet we know we will lose it all.
The spiritual seeker is also in the same trap. Instead of collecting money, he is collecting spiritual merit through meditation. It’s the same greed.
He wants a good place after death.
Enlightenment is the realisation that there is no individual self and no merit to be obtained.
So you drop the greed and cannot ask for anything

I’m not surprised the atmosphere hasn’t changed and that no one was critical. Everyone at Haynes is a believer whose identity is tied to RSSB. It’s similar to a Trump rally. An echo chamber.
Even our own Osho couldn’t bring himself to ask the big man a hard, critical question, opting instead to ingratiate himself with the usual pseudo spiritual chitter chatter.

Osho, you wrote: “… Moral standards are not fixed. Enlightenment is not connected to moral standards.”.
What the hell does that mean? I can do what I like according to the “morals” and when I need to, I can cheat, lie, and use nepotism to fulfill my desires or get my end result? That’s a very dangerous statement. And since it’s not connected to my spirituality/enlightenment, I can do whatever I want and it won’t affect my spiritual progress. Biggest load of shit I’ve seen in along time.
It’s a slippery slope when you start making excuses for the guru. As followers, there are people crying in shame in front of the guru at the mic, saying how they’ve failed and not lived up to the morals and teachings of the path. Good grief.

These Hindus & Sikhs, How they ostracize people who become offenders/criminals according to penal code. These Hindus and Sikhs would never talk about creating atmosphere/circumstances of crime in India by setting up gun factories/alcohol factories/tobacco factories. It seems so strange that when anyone among them becomes offender/ criminal according to penal code, they hire costly lawyers to make sure that their relative who has become criminal never gets the gallows/execution. When Australian missionary Graham Staines was burnt alive along-with two sons Philip and Timothy, his wife Gladys Staines issued a statement that she had forgiven the killers and had no bitterness towards them. Moot point is : How can you ask for mercy and grace when you have not shown it in your entire life. Even bigger debatable point is : When you have created the circumstances of crime by setting up gun factories/ arms and ammunition given to general public by giving them license to use them, even the mercy and grace to criminals is fake and sham when you have created all the circumstances for crime to happen.

Hi Osho
You wrote
”
It was business as usual at Haynes. Packed hall. He was his usual jovial self. Nobody would imagine he has just lost 500 million dollars. If anything, he was more jovial than usual. Cracking jokes
at every opportunity.”
I understand the kool-aid was free.

Amar/Spence – Osho doesn’t seem to see the irony/disconnect here. Why discuss The One with someone embroiled in a financial scandal? What authority does Gurinder have to sit on a dais and expound on enlightenment? An enlightened person doesn’t want for millions of dollars and seek to acquire it through dishonest means. The whole point of a guru is to lead by example.
What do you get out of these Haynes visits, Osho?

Excerpt from the book Anurag Sagar/ Ocean of Love English Version
Kal troubles the jivas, involving them in many karmas; he himself plays the tricks and gives the consequences to jiva.
I am again reminding the readers the mystery surrounding death of Dr Julian P Johnson, Apparently, Johnson got into a fairly heated debate with a younger friend of his named Paul Petzoldt. During the heat of the debate Johnson either tripped or was pushed and hit his head on a rock. He subsequently died from his injuries on the way to the hospital. I’m not saying Paul was a murderer or innocent. Thousands of so called criminals in Indian jails are ostracized and on close inspection they are victims of criminal circumstances created by selling of guns and alcohol.
When anyone from our relatives/friends becomes a criminal/ victim of criminal circumstances we feel all the love and sympathy for him and try to make endless excuses that he is nice guy and became victim of circumstances. On the other hand we ostracize and condemn convicted criminals all the time. This is hypocrisy of highest order.

Vinny, this is human nature. The ones we have a bond with, we will protect up to a certain extent. Part of this is self preservation (we don’t want to acknowledge that someone we associate with or shares the same last name has done something “bad”, because our name gets dragged along with them).
Mistakes happen, we can hit someone on a dark and rainy night. They were wearing dark clothing and crossed the street mid block. As long as you stay at the scene and give your version, you probably will get benefit of the doubt. If you hit and run, you’re screwed.

Well said, Karma King!

On close inspection even the good- bad karma is a trap laid by negative power Kal the ruler of this plane. You go for boating with your friend and boat capsizes and he gets killed by drowning because he doesn’t know swimming. You will escape the penal code but you will never be able to face the relatives of your dead friend who got killed by drowning just because he agreed to the whim of your mind to go for boating on that day even if he had no interest in boating all his life. You became the cause of his death but in the eyes of penal code you may be innocent.
Conversely, there are convicted criminals of penal code who on close inspection were not more guilty than the person acquitted in boating and drowning case if we look at the big picture / who provided them/sold them guns and alcohol. But society never shows any love/ sympathy for these convicted criminals until their own friend/ relative is tried in criminal case.
Many of the convicted criminals don’t even go to their homes even after their punishment/jail term is over due to fear of stigma on their family and by the time their jail term is over their close relatives / parents may have already died leaving them no inspiration to lead normal life.
On the contrary person who sold them arms and ammunition might be considered a very philanthropic person by the same society who hates these convicted criminals.

To Amar and Karma King:
Do you not understand something as simple as the subjective nature of a “moral code”
Moral codes are man made. What one culture consider a sin, another considers a virtue.
One simple example
Halal food. Sikhs consider it a sin
Muslims the direct opposite
Neither is right but feels they are right.
Is killing “wrong”?
But when a soldier goes to war and kills innocent people who he doesn’t even know, it’s a “good” thing because the country says so.
If his neighbour threatens him and he gets into a fight an kills or injured him, he goes to jail.
So killing is okay if the country is at war.
Moral standards are man made. Not some inherently natural law.

@karma king
Gurinder has the same authority as you, it’s called free speech.
I went there of my free will and asked a question about oneness. It doesn’t even mean I consider him an authority. I am asking him the RSSB view and he gave it. I don’t agree with his answer, because I don’t think any amount of meditation leads to Realization.
But I honour the free choice of those who choose to go there. Who am I to condemn them. They are free to make their choices in life.
It’s not my job to convert anyone to anything. Those who have faith in RSSB are free to continue. They don’t care about the financial scandal because they are concerned about their spiritual welfare which they feel is in his hands.
If you followed the path, you might well do the same. He certainly doesn’t seem like a criminal when at Haynes

RSSB chief Baba Gurinder Dhillon’s associates threatened me with life, alleges filmmaker Sheetal Talwar
Received death threats on phone after lawyers pursued unpaid $1.25 million towards Baba’s treatment abroad.
twitter-logo Rajeev Dubey New Delhi Last Updated: March 27, 2019 | 11:31 IST
[Source: businesstoday.in]
I’m not saying he is criminal, plain and simple search engine results.

On this site, Brian has created a platform where we can discuss and voice our opinions. But remember they are just opinions.
Just as no RSSB follower insists that you and I follow his chosen path, so nobody has the right to tell them what to do.
Those who come onto church of the churchless can read and make up their own mind. Nobody can do any more than present the known facts.
There are many followers who don’t care about any scandal, many will not even listen. That is their choice and I respect any choice a person makes.
I may not agree with it, but who cares? Each person chooses their own path.
Karma king and Amar seem to think the world revolves around their opinion.
Live and let live is my philosophy
Let others make their choices without condemning them.

Thanks Osho, for sharing.
Lots of angry people who don’t realise that its their own fault for having unrealistic expectations. What we see in others is a reflection of ourselves.
We will never find perfection on this planet. Gurinder is simply doing his job to the best of his ability.

You editor.. u are a big chutiyaa… believe me..
U havent achieved anything and u r fully driven by ur negative thoughts.. but newton 3rd law is applicable to u.. i cant say u believe in God.. so i will not talk about karma.
U will get everything as return gifr. I promise..
The higher u go the deeper u fall.

Hi Vinny,
The saga of Julian Johnson’s death (interesting sidenote: Phillip was his birth name and he adopted “Julian” later on) is a fascinating one, even if controversial. Due to the work of Joseph O’ Leary, who first opened our eyes to Paul Petzoldt and his connection with Johnson’s death, I got intrigued and did a little more digging. It turns out that the “real” fight that precipitated Julian’s death was due to an argument between Johnson’s wife, Elizabeth Bruce and Paul Petzoldt. It was apparently centered on a couple of things, not the least of which was squirmish over Elizabeth’s cooking! Apparently, Petzoldt could also say sarcastic things at the wrong time (at least that is how he remembers his persona in those days). In any case, things got really heated and Elizabeth Bruce pulled out a shotgun (apparently the same gun that Paul would use to kill stray dogs around the Dera) and pointed it at him. This caused quite a commotion….. Julian was not there at the time and only came later which unhappily led to his demise as Paul ran out pushing Johnson to the ground (other accounts have him punching him to get away). In any case, it is a very convoluted story, especially since Paul had just brought his wife to the Dera. Paul received initiation earlier and reports that he had a most amazing meditation experience (greater than any of peak experiences while climbing…. including K2). Well, Joseph original research inspired me to get some original documentation and eventually I wrote a little book on the subject under the title THE MYSTERY OF DR. JOHNSON’S DEATH, which is in paperback, audio, and free PDF format. I will include the free PDF link for those who are interested. What is also intriguing is that in the court documents it clearly states that Bhagat Singh (not Jagat, his cousin) was the “successor in waiting.” A few years later, Sawan Singh got very ill and actually wrote a will out in the early 1940s appointing Bhagat….. but Sawan recovered and eventually Bhagat Singh died a few years later.
Coincidentally, I was contacted by Julian Johnson’s great-grandaughter who gave me a treasure trove of materials about Johnson, including the fact that he was married 4 times….. and that he had actually authored a book about India decades prior (and still available online) entitled, LIFE AMONG THE HINDUS.
Here are the pertinent links:
1. PDF for the book:https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxydW5uZWJvaG1kaWdpdGFsY29sbGVjdGlvbnR3b3xneDo5OTM2MDhkMDMyOGIxMmE
2. Website with new pictures and updated information about Johnson:
https://sites.google.com/site/julianphillipjohnson/

Osho wrote
“Karma king and Amar seem to think the world revolves around their opinion.“
I have always thought this. Many disillusioned people on this blog just can’t believe that others choose to take the stand they do. Amar is one of them. He feels like your stupid if you don’t see it like him. Or your wearing some sort of tinted glasses. I have had him say this in reply to my posts numerous times too.

Jen and Osho, it’s a slippery slope. The ideal of the guru is the ideal, he holds the teachings utmost and is the example.
So first we have fraud, unpaid loans and alleged death threats from people in GSD’s office. But hey, no body is perfect. Let it go right?
So Ram Rahim rapes two girls, gets sent to jail for 20 years, and his followers still consider him a true guru.
Where does it stop? At what point do actions of the guru stop being accountable, and/or deserve the scrutiny they deserve?
And Osho, morals are morals, you can’t pick and choose which ones are more important or unimportant, according to your agenda. Especially when you’re the saviour of millions.
If not, then he needs to come out and say it, right?
In the Sant Mat tradition, the guru is the ideal, the perfect disciple. The Gurmukh. That is the guru and that is the ideal that the Sangat wants and expects. That’s what drives nut jobs like Harry to say the things they say.
Guru is there to lead and be a role model. Not to slowly lower the bar, as you suggest.

But now there is just one thing I’d like to know:
Did any of these brave outspoken keyboard warriors actually approach the guru in person at Haynes park to ask him about all these financial going on? Anyone at all ?
Or are you just all hot air and no trousers?
Thank you kindly Georgy (v doubtful this will be posted)

Sorry to hurt your feelings Vijay. Vijay, next time you are at the next Q&A pose the question regarding the scandals and tell him you don’t believe any of it. If he agrees, then by jove man, he’s innocent!
I see you only post here to say that Amar only likes to have people agree with him.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

I think Amar, u have left ur job and u have nothing to do. Every time I see this blog, I see ur post. If u have so much if problem so y don’t u go to the police and log an FIR against him? Or go to his Satsang and ask direct question to him? Y r u provoking everyone here.
Don’t care about anyone, whatever they think. Provoking someone is also crime. Do u know that? Either way or that way u r also doing crime. So we need to say same thing to you as well! U will not see this because u e alligating someone. Whenever we alligate someone, we forget that we r also committing a crime.
So think before u raise a question. One day u will be asked some questions and u will not have any answers.

What is the meaning of church of churchless??

Sharan,
What is the meaning ,real meaning of life?
I mean it…!!
Why is everything exactely how it is..??
Just to Be?

Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually. In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 persons), and 33,636 deaths due to “injury by firearms” (10.6 deaths per 100,000 persons). [Wikipedia].
I’m not saying Mr A is Criminal or Mr B is not, When you have created the circumstances of crime yourself by giving guns in the hands of adolescents and adults. It is all the trap of Kal / negative power to create circumstances of crime. The theory of perceived threat is rubbish theory to justify guns in the hands of people. You can easily end this perceived threat by employing more police force which will create more employment also. It is all the trap of Kal to set up circumstances of crime and then try people under penal code.

Amar no worries you don’t hurt my feelings at all.
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion as I think the question asked by Osho and the reply by BBJ are
pretty clear. I can’t speak about it as I’m not with the ONE yet. 😊
And FYI I will not ask any questions myself as I don’t have any.the answer to all our questions are given at the time or initiation. You do what you are supposed to and you will get your clear answers.

Amar, Karma King and other extremists;
Harry may be a nut case.
There are but cases at both ends of the spectrum.
Nobody is forcing Harry to come to the churchless site. And if he comes, natural he can see people voicing their opinion. Freedom of speech.
In the same way many choose to follow RSSB despite newspaper articles. That is their freedom. It’s their life.
You can provide information but not force it down anyone’s throat.
So take a chill pill, relax, and smoke a cigar. Don’t take it so seriously, you are not the police of the universe.

It was a pleasant read.
Thanks Osho & Brian, for sharing with all of us.
Amar,
why so much hatred and negativity. it’s not your responsibility, is it ?
if you don’t feel for a particular path, it’s best to move on to a path which works best for you.
there are many people on this blog who no longer follow RSSB but they are still at peace,
I hope I am getting it all wrong, but you sound quite disturbed.
maybe you can do something like:
tell yourself you don’t follow anyone/any master in this world and feel relieved,
at the same time start spending some good quality time and attend to your meditation,
listen to sound daily (Sound is universal, RSSB in particular has not patented it),
and have a peaceful time.
I wish you much love brother.
I hope you will soon find a peaceful state within you.

Instead of quarrel and blames , we should follow his( GSD) instructions, if we got result then believe in him otherwise you can choose another way to find GOD.. He simply tell us the way to find God. For example if we want to make new food recipe then we will follow the instructions of any experienced person and get results. In the same way we need a experienced person when we want to go a new journey which we never did before. So find the results to follow his instructions.

Mr. Amar,
What is your problem?? why are you blaming. What you want. Please don’t irritate everyone.
Stop every time wright to negative things. If you have such problem then you ask questions directly the front of Babaji.
Why are you misguide everyone.

One I Love what you wrote to Amar. Hope he heeds your advise and the negativity vanishes.
Your comments are always a pleasure to read.

No worries people. I’m doing what I feel is right on my end. I do my meditation. Just throwing info out there and some people don’t have a direct answer. That’s okay.
What you interpret as hate, is just frustration. The reason I keep repeating this stuff is that if we don’t, and remain silent like RSSB higher ups are doing and hoping it just dies away, then it will get forgotten and swept under the rug.
I actually like Vijay’s comments because he has taken the time to actually go thru the information and then form his opinion. Doesn’t match my opinions, but that’s okay too. That’s cool. I just like giving him a hard time.
And One, in response to your comment, read my comments above, you are wrong. I am at peace, I’m free. I am disturbed at the fact that others are in denial of these events. You can read whatever emotion you want into the comments, that’s your take on it, because you don’t agree with the fact that GSD has done wrong. That’s your opinion, not mine.
I’m in a much better place these days. But at least I’m not in denial.

In Satya desh there was ocean of spirit with no tendency for outward action.
“Kal” wanted the tendency to do outward action and therefore have seperate existence from Sat Purush. This tendency for outward action will create all kinds of actions, it will create weapons and atom bombs and then put those weapons in the hands of innocent people by second action.
By third action people use those weapons and crimes happen. By fourth action they are tried under penal code as criminals. This good-bad action is network of Kal to trap the Soul. “Kal” was expelled from higher spirit regions because “Kal” wanted separate kingdom to rule over Souls by hook or crook. “Kal” has no sympathy for suffering of innocent Souls. “Kal” is brutal ruler of this plane. In countries like India and Pakistan,these weapons have totally destroyed the fabric of society. People were living happily even in poverty due to faith in the teachings of Saints/Sufis. Now with the factories of alcohol/tobacco and guns our own flesh and blood/ our own people are labelled as criminals.
Poverty did not end with these alcohol and gun factories plus it has created criminals out of innocent human beings. It has destroyed India and Pakistan much more than it has damaged America.
I end it with Sufi Poetry of Baba Bulleh Shah
Bulleh Shah pata tad lag see
Jado chidi fasi hath baazan
[When a sparraow/person becomes victim of snare of falcons/Kal, then one understands
the pain of victims]

I don’t know why you are more concerned about money rather than God. He is not a business man, but he is a spiritual master. He doesn’t not care about money. He just care about their disciples. One more thing, Baba ji and his family are two different entities. If his family involved in something, then it doesnt mean that he is also involved in that. His work is just to take our soul and drop it to the destination(One God). From Sant Kabir, Guru Ravidas, Guru Nanak to Baba Gurinder Singh ji, everyone did the same. He is also doing the same thing.

1st of all i just want to say all chelle of radhaswami . Gand mrvayo saleyo.
Then i have to add normal buzz .
Look dear one when a man know very well that what our guru and god say why they people just criticise for money or other things. They have ton of money unlimited land but the qustion is , for what ? Where is the word sewa. Satsang is not like the thing where all people . Satsang is only the thing where all disagree people will meat and find the truth. A man who belive he is guru then how that man think he is in onness with only have egoic poit of view. Meditation is not something like sit and thinking or not thinking. Meditation is just liveing in truth. And stand on reality truth. And that is here and Now. I apology for my kind word. Everyone will get what it deserve. I know the things and it hurt me thank you
Namaste

Amar,
There is no need to be disturbed by the denial of others any more than the believers get disturbed by those who choose to leave. To each their own.
That is peace.
Being disturbed is not peace.
You can question and inform, but why get disturbed if others don’t agree.
I don’t agree with Gurinder’s answer that meditation is needed, but so what. I sure he is not upset or disturbed.

Gurmeet, you’re an idiot. If you want to swear, put it in English. Don’t put it phonetically in Hindi/Punjabi so Brian can’t figure it out. Doesn’t matter if you agree with things or not. I don’t care, but at least make a point of it, instead of just calling out all RS people.

If u have confusion Gurmeet around money or anything so please visit Gurudwaras, where u can see millions of rupees. Everyday in any of the big Gurudwaras people present so much if money, where is that going? It is going in the pocket of president of Gurudwaras, this is the truth and reality

“Nobody would imagine [Gurinder Singh] has just lost 500 million dollars.” —
The strange fruit of Satsangi morality. A guru likely has abetted a process of bad loans that provided him and his near and dear with $500 million dollars…and when a court rules that these were ill-gotten gains, the Gurus followers turn the scandal completely around, making the bizarre claim that the Guru has in fact *lost* 500 million dollars that was rightfully his…and yet is cheerful as fuck about this unjust reversal of fortune, thus proving his spiritual majesty.
And…the Guru’s sangat was respectfully silent about this scandal, indicating not total ignorance, and not slavish devotion to their leader, and not fear of speaking up…. but that they know what’s really important — utter detachment from piddly and picayune matters of illegal and unpaid loans of 500 million dollars (if their Guru is said to be involved).
That sucking sound going through Banwar Gupha is the shabd of the moral vacuum.

Yep thought so – just hot air then.
When is somebody actually going to just go ask the guru these questions, rather than all these underhanded 2nd or 3rd hand cowardly reports about what he/she said.
Does anyone have any testacles?
Maybe the ladies ?

Juvenile offender beheaded. Amnesty International is outraged at the recent beheading of a child offender in Saudi Arabia. [ amnesty.org] I am not implying that India and Pakistan are better in any way how juveniles become victims of circumstances/ which society calls crime.
Sufi Poetry
Rabb jaaney kai deeghan paiyyan
Lakh saal gayey nahin aayey
[I look at the barren utensils, lakhs/hundred thousand of years have passed. But the person who used to eat from these utensils has not returned]
Yaar Farid aabad jeevan eh jyotan
Rabb pher peeran no basaawey
[if he has been beheaded the Soul lives on. I pray for love of Saints in the heart of executioner which was missing when he beheaded the adolescent]
Palak palak pardesiyan karan
Meri akhiyaan Sawan laayey
[ The adolescent beheaded was not my brother/relative, in fact a complete stranger. But I weep as if my own brother has been beheaded]

kunal, so what’s your point? This is the new norm now? It’s okay to do this?
If the mandirs do it, the gurdwaras, and church’s do it, then by default it’s open season for guru’s also?

The reason I wrote about meditation in the letter to Brian, was because GSD previously had said that meditation was simply to make you give up and let go. Not in order to reach certain regions, hence my interpretation that meditation is NOT needed. In Sunday he was very much saying it is needed in order to experience the “merging”
Like I said, I don’t agree. I think its far more conducive to contemplate on the real implications of ONENESS, which will destroy your concepts of how real duality is. Anything that ends cannot be ultimate reality.
Meditation on that can lead to oneness, not meditation on five holy names.
Someone asked about jadoo (magic) and he said no such thing. Then as an afterthought he said “hey is there a jadoo I can use to make the sangat meditate?”

It’s unlikely that questions on the financial scandal will come up in Q&A sessions, as 1) people who’ve been paying attention to the scandal have stopped attending satsangs and have given up on RSSB, 2) there have been reports of death threats by RSSB so people are afraid to ask questions, 3) longer term, I expect media reports will die down as RSSB will pay off politicians and judges to make the issue go away. This is unfortunately how things work in India, and also means that we may never know the truth about GSD.

i rekha has gr8 trust on my guru. and i will not listen a dingle word from osho or anyone else who themselves are meking money on the name of my guru.aise

“Gurbani says there is no “me” or individual soul”
To say that there is no individual soul in Gurbani is stupid. There are probably 1000 or more lines distinguishing man’s soul from God. This isn’t “One” in the way you imagine it. Even the words “ek oankar” could be construed to mean more than one because you and I are not that ek oankar. But either way you are the jivatma or whatever term they use most frequently.
Why do you even say things like that? You seem to be asking this guru the same crap endlessly for years on end and making no progress at all in anything whatsoever. Give up on your pursuit of getting Gurinder Singh to answer your same repetitive autistic question in the same predictable way. It serves no purpose, and has no value other than annoying me and impressing Brian.

Ever you tried the method which Babaji prrscribes.if not , just try it for full 2.5 hrs.for not less than two months continuously. You will definitely see with your own eyes that what He preaches is only truth. As for as the borrowings are concerned that is family matter which is not connected to spirituality. So waste your time celebrating at own cost.

Jesse
Paltu ikoi ik hai, dusar nahin koi.
There is only one, there is no other.
One means non-duality.
Gurbani and GSD both clearly state that oneness is the truth.
Everything in duality perishes. Only oneness remains.

Jesse
Check this out from 6 mins into the video.
https://youtu.be/M7A9qZEBVh8
Explanation of the ONE

Asking Gurinder some philosophical armchair question pertaining to “oneness” instead of about the scandal is such a wasted opportunity. Rather disappointing. Sant Mat 2.0 ethics lost in space!

Can anyone give the name of book in which that incident of Baba Sawan Singh watching over dynamite blast to create roads in the mountains, one mishap was prevented by some miracle when the lace of the dynamite which was ignited by his junior staff got extinguished by miraculous divine incident.

David Lane I hadn’t thought about Johnson and his books and how helped usher me into RSSB for quite some time.I’ll give your pdf a look.Ive always thought of RSSB and The Theosophical Society in similar Light 😉 Here is something you may find interesting.https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/5991/1/The%20Theosophical%20Crisis%20in%20Australia.pdf

Had it not be a multimillion dollars issue and crisis situation in His family which got erupted in the media with subsequent Courts gagging orders the matters would have no credence even if raised over here or elsewhere.
For me He is in trouble for whatsoever. reason and. the Guru and. Guru’s family needs escape route which His lovers. must think over and deliberate to suggest. some practical answer to Him or His family members.
In the process some may ask how did He or His. Family members. got into this mega trouble. That may help us. understand the. Real story as also help He in real sense.

Escape route for anyone can not be different from other people who become victims of traps. We all live in the same region of Kal. In fact it was the other way round in the times of Baba Jaimal Singh and Baba Sawan Singh. People who became victims of traps of Kal/ so called justice system of Earth used to get relief from the trap. If any master cannot save himself from traps set up by Kal/negative power. Is he really a living master or has the same spiritual level as ordinary run of the mill disciples. People have already contributed in cash and kind for this organization. My practical answer : The jury who is seeing this case. Do they have any family member who has been a part of RSSB or other branches of Radha Swami except Beas?? That family member of jury may understand the whole trap and pray to his master Baba Charan Singh or Baba Sawan Singh or any other master of Radha Swami lineage in his/her meditation for mercy and grace.

@jesse
Gurbani is misunderstood. The mool mantar is saying there is only one.
Beyond time and space; changeless; unborn;
Gurprashad means, you realise him by the grace Of the guru.
Jap means to contemplate.
It means think deeply about it and you will realise it.
Repeating or reciting is useless.
And you cannot experience god or merge in him; because you are already the ONE and you are not the body or a soul.
Gurinder says all this, but says meditation is the means to realise it

Osho, there are so many contradictory ideas in “gurbani” it’s not worth talking about. I couldn’t care less about any of it.
YOU just told ME to watch A VIDEO about “THE ONE.” That’s 4 distinct things right there in one sentence. Any underlying unifying property that we philosophize about is a waste of time and asking Gurinder Singh Dhillon about it is embarrassing not once, but multiplied by a million. You might as well dance naked and chant hare krishna.
You cannot, because you know, the whole YOU thing, experience any sort of oneness. You’re doomed to suffer from objects and subjects until you die. But go ahead and ramble on like a hippy talking about stupid concepts that you inherited from your soma drinking ancestors. My ancestors discussed the same things with different drugs, and they’re equally dead and equally wrong about everything.
Oneness only exists on paper or on drugs

OshoRobbins: “Jap means to contemplate. 
It means think deeply about it and you will realise it.”
I like this because my whole life has been a search, contemplation, watching, seeing, thinking deeply, being aware of self and others, becoming the eagle or the phoenix, the observer… transformation is the aim (takes a lifetime) hopefully…
Not relying on another just simply being the best we can. Watching and waiting. Forgiveness is important.
Sorry if I’m preachy. Just embracing hippy talk and New Age thinking… way to go… for me!
Gurbani quote: “The World is a Drama Staged in a Dream” Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

This Sufi Poetry epitomizes it all.
Tasbeeh key daanon kou bikharney nahin detey
Jisko banatey hein phir bigadney nahin detey
[Perfect Living Master who has merged himself in Satpurush , he wouldn’t let Kal/negative power play games with his disciples]
This good bad karma theory, God/ Creator theory, Mercy and Grace are already present in many books. People don’t make a Guru to listen to these theories. They are already in books. If any Guru cannot help the disciple when Kal has trapped the sincere disciple by network of karma, that Guru is useless for the disciple.
If a fifth class child starts repeating the expression ” Atomic Physics” “Atomic Physics” Will he become Physicist?? Whole consciousness has to change , just by repeating one expression like parrot you don’t merge in Satpurush/ Primal cause / Primal being.

@jesse
Your argument shows you misunderstand, but as you stated that you couldn’t care less, it is a non issue.
However, just for the benefit of others, let me clarify.
Clearly, gurbani is not saying that there is LITERALLY only the ONE. What it is saying is: the underlying reality is ONENESS. Everything else is in a state of change.
Gurbani calls it koor (rubbish) meaning that it will all end. So all this exists but only for a while, like the waves of the ocean.
Using the wave / ocean metaphor, only the ocean exists. Clearly at any moment in time we can see waves, and many of them, but within a matter of seconds, they will be GONE, and will be replaced by other waves, which will also merge back into the ocean.
So we can say, “the ocean is real, the waves are just momentary.
Of course they exist in any given moment. You are using the argument that waves exist in the moment, to somehow mean that waves are real.
Waves are momentary. Not eternal. That waves come and go, the ocean remains.
In the same way, all you can see will go. But the ONENESS remains.
Except, unlike the analogy of the ocean, you can’t SEE the ONENESS because its not a THING.
If it was a thing, it wouldn’t be eternal.
Gurbani calls it ” nirgun” meaning “no attributes”.
So it means god (ONENESS) is NOT love, is not good or bad. Any statement you make about the ONE will be wrong.
It also means that god does not hear your prayers, or judge you, or watch you or protect you. So the hard atheist is right, there is no personal god.
That is what Nanak is saying.
The reason? So you stop seeking a Mr God

“Oneness exists only on paper or on drugs” – Jesse.
You are wrong. It does not exist at all. Because only “things” exist. ONENESS is not a thing.
You cannot see it, experience it, or merge into it. Because all those actions happen in duality.
Interestingly, GSD made the same argument as you, in previous discussions. He said, “so you don’t see any people here?”
He did not understand my answer so it seems you are in good company.

“That is what Nanak is saying.”
Well I’m glad the expert has weight in on what Guru Nanak REALLY meant in all his poems. The days of speculation are over. SOAS is shutting down their Sikhism department and just posting your quote on a wall somewhere.
You’re doing a lot of what is called “jabbering about nonsense.” Just as the people who you borrow your ideas did. There is no value to speculating on the nature of the universe unless you are joining a cult that requires you to do so for social points. You can’t prove this oneness. It’s a human idea that will be debated until mankind kills itself off with nukes.
If you’re so obsessed with Sikhism though, I should warn you now that Sikhs generally only talk about hair and food. You might find 3 Sikhs in Canada or UK who have these discussions about the things Sikhism copied from Vedanta while pretending that they’re original ideas, but the average Sikh only cares about hair and food. I guess the women also lament the birth of other females as well and openly discuss killing them. But you will likely only talk to dudes.
By the way, am I the only person who feels an extreme tension when I visit a Gurdwara and literally everyone has like 4 sons and no daughters? I can’t even step foot in those places anymore. It’s the worst vibe ever.

@jesse
I am not obsessed with Sikhism any more than I am obsessed with RSSB.
I have an interest in both in so far as the truth behind the concepts. Both RSSB and Sikhism have concepts that lead the follower onto a different path (duality) if misunderstood.
Sikhism has become about the external. Nanak never had a sword and never believed in the 10 gurus (they didn’t exist during his time) so he fails the current qualification of a Sikh.
Sikhism is a religion. RSSB is also a religion. Both have gone far away from what they are based on.
Oneness is not just an armchair discussion. It is a moment of awakening to the true nature of oneness. Its what happened to Nanak when he apparently drowned and disappeared for three days. He was contemplating (jap) then shared the results in japji.
Wasn’t meant for parrot like repetition. Was meant to be understood.
After understanding correctly, you drop the duality ideas of a separate self.
Now you cannot seek a sach khand because it cannot exist as a place.
You cannot even meditate because the reason for the meditation has gone.
No sach khand, no sat purush. So what are you trying to attain by meditation?
There is only emptiness and no YOU.
Nanak cuts at the root. The YOU that you think you are (body, mind, soul) does not exist except for a short while so its not real.
Of course it exists in the moment only, and Nanak calls that unreal or Maya.

If one cannot experience the primal source / primal cause/one ; all these scriptures/Gurus are useless. When the being of person who is living in duality will experience the one, it will be experience from duality to one. Anyone saying it cannot be experienced is again parroting like idiot. When a person has dream / he is experiencing something, when a person wakes up/ he now has added experience of wakefulness plus the experience of dream. When a fifth class child passes the 10th class he has experience of 5th class plus 6th class plus 7th class plus 8th class plus 9th class plus 10th class. All living things experience from birth to death/ maybe even beyond death. To say that living things are like non living things/cannot experience is mental retardation of highest order. That person needs mental asylum. In fact it was the experience of Saints/Mystics which inspired them to write scriptures.

oneness
/ˈwʌnnəs/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
the fact or state of being unified or whole, though comprised of two or more parts.
“the oneness of all suffering people”
2.
the fact or state of being one in number.
“holding to the oneness of God the Father as the only God”

Jesse said “Osho, there are so many contradictory ideas in “gurbani” it’s not worth talking about. I couldn’t care less about any of it.”
Quote: The opposite of truth is another profound truth.
There are so many contradictions in Gurbani because there are so many contradictions in reality.
Truth is beyond understanding, reasoning and logic. It cannot be boxed.
Gurbani says Ek Hai. Anek Hai.
He is one. He is many. He is beyond one and many.

“Truth is beyond reasoning, understanding and logic” – Daljit
Oneness is beyond time and space, which is precisely why you cannot use the reasoning. It is also why you cannot encompass it into an experience. Of course you can have an experience, but the experience is not it.
Because the experience happens in duality.
However there is a realization that comes once you put all the pieces of the puzzle together.
In that realization you know that you do not exist as a separate entity. Only the ocean is, you are a passing wave, so you drop the identification with the separate being.
Now all seeking stops because there is nothing to seek. No heaven, no God, no goal.

When told you need mental asylum for parroting idiotic ideas, parrot becomes Prince Charles. Do we have extravaganza of idiots?? Such idiots are dangerous for society.

“all these scriptures/Gurus are useless.”
Thank you for saying this, Vinny. It’s the only portion of your screed that anyone can use to their benefit.

“Oneness is not just an armchair discussion. It is a moment of awakening to the true nature of oneness. Its what happened to Nanak when he apparently drowned and disappeared for three days. He was contemplating (jap) then shared the results in japji.
Wasn’t meant for parrot like repetition. Was meant to be understood. ”
“There is only emptiness and no YOU. ”
Once again, thank you for clarifying what a 15th century poet REALLY meant and for explaining the true nature of the universe.
It’s certainly something the world doesn’t have enough of. People making claims about the absolute nature of reality and their unique knowledge of an access to it is rare. I can think of nothing in this world lacking more than this. And though there are millions of cosmological maps out there, it most DEFINITELY is the Indian ones that you personally grew up around and heard every day of your life that are true. Because reasons.
Certainly, there is no personal bias. It’s just that it must be true. Oneness has to be true. Just because.
You people are hopeless and sick. You don’t know anything. You’re going to continue cursing this world forever with your ideas, none of which are original, none of which can be proven one way or another.

“There is only emptiness and no YOU. ”
There is only fullness. There is only you.
There is no oneness. Only the infinite many.
There is no unity. Only individuation and separation.
Stop talking about things you don’t know. Be honest for once instead of trying to hold yourself above others as some sort of spiritually enlightened person. You’re just a dude who tried to start a youtube cult and is still trying to prove something that nobody cares about. You’re not enlightened. You don’t know what oneness is any more than I do. You’re just a guy typing on the internet who is not one with the universe. When you’re not here you’re at some satsang trying to get attention by asking stupid questions publicly. You’ll never be anyone’s guru. Give up.
Anyone with a shred of decency and honesty responds to these questions the exact same way and says “I have no idea.” Everyone saying one single word more than “I don’t know” is deceiving you and lying. They have hidden agendas and psychological motives.

These are very cunning people. Now when they realize that they don’t have the either the technology of the west plus flop version of Gurudom/Guru in present times they have started talking this rubbish and non sense.These are hypocrites of highest order. These hypocrites were slaves
of British Empire. Now with their flop version of Gurudom they may again become slaves for few thousand years. These hypocrites are walking on the path of self-destruction by fake Gurudom hiding in one. Their one = one parrot + one imposter = Gurudom of “One”

Vinny, get some rest. You are high on drugs and doing stream of consciousness babble. You’re in a hallucinogenic time trip seeing Brits and glowing iPhones in some sort of psychedelic vision that seems real to you, but nobody else knows what you’re talking about. The British Empire has nothing to do with anything in the slightest and China is the real producer of tech now.
When the substances wear off you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Sleep it off and get back to us when you’ve recovered and the rave promoters have packed up the sound system.

You can still read on the official RSSB site under the headings Newspaper Articles a very long explanation about the demise of the Singh brothers.
My “take” on it is the following:
Ranbir Singh and Gurbac Singh started Ranbaxy in 1937. A distrubutor for Japenese Pharmaceuticals. The Singh brothers’ paternal grandfather, Bai Mohan Singh bought the company in 1952 from his two above mentioned cousins.His son was Pavinder Singh. He had other sons. Pavinder married Nimmie, Charan Singh’s (Grewal) daughter. Malvinder and Shivinder are their sons. Charan’s grandsons (maternal) and Pavinder’s (paternal). There was some family trouble with Pavinder’s brothers and Nimmie in 1989 over some real estate in an affluent area. Google Nimmie Singh and you can find this information.
The RSSB official site has a really long article explaining everything under Newspaper articles. Also, there, there is another article about RSSB’s finances. I still found these articles. They have not been removed. So Gurinder has certainly not been silent on these matters. It is all there to read. This appears to me to have been an ongoing family situation since Charan’s time. Pavinder was talked about as being Charan’s successor, but Charan had other ideas and chose Gurinder, his nephew, and Nimmie’s first cousin. Gurinder is Malvinder and Shivinder’s second cousin. Pavinder, the Singh brothers’ father died in 1999.
Now the xenophobic whale eaters and dolphin killers, ( Japanese Company) have been involved with Ranbaxy for years. First under the name of Shionogi. Ranbaxy was a distrubutor for them in the start up early days. So who tainted the drugs now, then? And why did Diachii complain 4 years later? To my mind everyone is corrupt, the rich get wealthy by money laundering. Every company does it and gets away with it.
My thoughts are, that Gurinder inherited a huge family disruption, so very complicated, involving his cousin’s husbands family (Nimmie and co and her brothers in law) and Gurinder has tried to frankly get them out if the “shit”. Give the man a break. I bet every single Indian business, money launders. Just some bad real estate deals unfortunately and a whole lot of jealously about the huge amount of land control and ownership and government influence the extended family has/ had. Plus the huge growth and influence of RSSB from a political perspective.
I could be wrong mind you.
Sorry for all my typos, hard to see on phone!

Osho,
I relate to what you are saying. It is the Buddhist concept of Emptiness. The Heart Sutra.
The only permanence is impermanence! Your analogy of the ocean and the waves.
In infinity you are always at the centre, so, if in fact there be infinity then there is only one space to reside in. If there be eternity then you are always present. All the aggregates create the ONE and the ONE resides in the aggregates. Which actually equates to emptiness.

Fairy, the links are no longer on the RSSB website. If you Google, you can find them, but the official website has been cleaned of these, since June 2019.
Malvinder and Shivinder sold Ranbaxy when they knew they were in trouble with the FDA. That’s why they sold it to Daiichi. Daiichi turned around and sold it again to Sun Pharma years later. They did not wait 4 years to complain. The FDA within months of the sale came down hard on Ranbaxy. It’s been going on for years.
There’s a lot of stuff behind the scandal. To say that GSD was just helping out and was naive to everything is not realistic. Read through the posts by Tara on this blog. I believe Brian even compiled her posts into one really big one in late 2018. A real eye opener. She was close to GSD and knew the inner workings of RSSB.
Please take the time to read them.

Jen, You always have kindness in your heart. It is through kindness and compassion, we find peace and contentment.

Hi Amar
Thanks. It is all so very complicated isn’t it? I am not exonerating him. It is just the culture of the majority of those in the top percentile in the entire world who money launder, and get away with it. Is that so naive of me?
I have just read an interesting article from 2012 entitled “Why Made In India Is Just a Slogan.”
I wonder why we are all connected and caught up in this? Gathered together under one mind and thought process, The Plight ( Light!!) Of Sant Mat. It was my 30 year “initiation” day 23 July 1989. I am absolutely not in any way shape or form remotely any more initiated in my now! But oh, how I love doing nothing!🧚😇🙏

Fairy,
We all like permanence. We like the idea that we will be around forever. Obviously we cannot remain alive in the same body forever, so we accept second best; we say that “my SOUL will be around forever because souls don’t die.”
But the problem we then have is that the soul will reincarnate and we don’t like the idea of bring an insect or an animal in our next life.
I mean who wants to be a spider, a mouse, or a dog in their next life.
Sant mat offers a solution: get initiated and you will never reincarnate below a human.
Well that’s one big problem solved, thank God.
But what we really want is to go to sach khand, and remain there at the holy feet of Sat Purush.
So we are prepared to meditate as long as the guru promises to come at the time of death and take care of our soul.
Even if we dont reach Sach Khand, the guru will allow us to meditate while residing in the higher regions.
Not a bad result.
However, Guru Gurinder has ruined our great plan by saying he is not coming at the time of our death.
So initially we deny he even said that. But he keeps on saying it, and can’t be ignored.
And without his coming at death, our while plan of salvation is ruined.
Charan Singh initiates can say “well charan will come for ME, so Gurinder can just carry in, MY guru is Charan and He IS coming at my death”
Problem solved. MY salvation is secure, thank God for Charan, bless his soul.
To be continued ……….

So my point is that until BabaJi Gurinder came along, everything was just fine and dandy, or at least fine.
Hence the reason people in the sangat don’t like it when I get on the mic.
I am ruining their salvation. Their perfect plan is falling apart.
But now let’s deal with the REAL issue.
Each RSSB follower is a disciple for a REASON. The reason is that they WANT something.
They want their SOUL to go to Sach Khand. So they meditate.
Its hard work, but the end result will be worth it. You just wait until I “go inside” and meet the radiant form of my master. But it takes a while, so in the meantime I will perform seva for my GuruJi. At least it will help.
Good plan. Just one downside: its not going to work, because BabaJi keeps throwing a spanner in the works.
He says things like, “there is only the ONE” but of course I don’t get what he means. “ONE what?”
Perhaps he means ONE GOD which I am fine with.
This is the dilemma the sangat is in. They cannot afford to let go of the traditional teaching; there is too much at stake.
So what exactly is BabaJi REALLY saying? And WHY is he hell bent on ruining my spiritual journey?
To be continued………

Dealing with the truth.
First of all, BabaJi Gurinder is not giving out the full truth. He is adding a buffer, a safety margin, perhaps because none of the followers can handle it.
He is still sugar coating the truth.
What truth?
That there is no YOU, hence nobody needs to be saved.
You don’t have a SOUL.
The sugar coating is that you are the SOUL and you need to meditate to MERGE into GOD.
The untainted version is: there IS and never has been a separate self (soul).
So there is no salvation to be worked towards.
Your soul cannot go to Sach Khand because of two reasons
1. There is no soul
2. There is no Sach Khand
There is only the ONE. You are a delusion. A wave of the ocean. You don’t need saving because you are not even real.
But you THINK you are real and that is called haumi.
Haumi= the notion that “I” exist.
for Jesse, let me clarify: the body exists in THIS moment, but will die.
And no soul is going to leave the body and go anywhere.
You cannot be saved because a wave cannot be saved. The ocean is already saved, because it never becomes a wave.

Osho, I am under no illusion. When I was”initiated” initially, and then later at the Dera by Charan in the November of 1989, I never in my heart ever really believed all that stuff ( other than Surat Shabd Yog – that makes SOUND sense to me) and I did not enjoy the Dera one little bit! I do love going to the Mahayana Buddhist centres though. Small and very personal with great thought provoking teachings with opportunities encouraged to question concepts. I am of the belief that true Science of the Soul and The Quantum Physics behind Mahayana Buddhism is where intellectual satisfaction can be found. I have never in my heart of hearts really believed in a Master. I still do not understand the true meaning of a “Guru”. My undestanding is, you have many teachers on the way. Life is your greatest Guru, I think.
Nobody is coming for me at my death. Whatever I may “see” “hear” or “smell” will be of my own hallucinating mind. No doubts about that. It is time to make our OWN way in the world. (And in my death!)If there is such a thing a reincarnation ( I do believe, but nobody or mind I should say, really knows for sure) then where my continum goes, who knows? Maybe to nowhere! I love the movie “Lucy” with Scarlett Johansson. It is so good!🧚😇🙏
Of course, I could always wake up a fairy with my virtual reality glasses off when I discard this body, my current vehicle to function in this physical plane of matter.
Jesse
I think you say many realistic things, and often your comments make me laugh, because many are very funny in a grumpy kind of a way. Why are you so cross all the time? Regardless, I enjoy all of these satsangs here on Brian’s Blog.🙏😂💫

Where is Tara these days? @Brian are you still in touch with her? What is her opinion about all that’s happening?

Now parrots of Gurudom are again playing cheap diversion tricks. Forget Sachkhand for a moment/5 years. if he thinks that all this Gurudom is rubbish why he is enjoying all the benefits of being a Guru under a trust by accepting land and donations.These cunning people of Punjab were slaves of Mughals and Brtitish Empire. These are double headed snakes which will be destroyed by Kal/time. Their Kal/time of destruction has arrived. Now weep double headed snakes. Now look below the excerpt from news article what these snakes are doing.
Tribune News Service
Chandigarh, July 22 [Excerpt from the full news article]
Acting on a petition filed in public interest alleging that the Beas had unnaturally changed
its course by about 2 km resulting in loss of about 2,500 acres of cultivable land due
to illegal mining and illegal extension of boundaries of a dera, the Punjab and Haryana
High Court today directed the state government to decide a representation in the matter.
The direction by the Bench headed by Justice Rajiv Sharma came after the petitioner,
Lok Bhalai Insaf Welfare Society, stated that agriculturist and their families lost
their livelihood following change in the course of the Beas “due to illegal mining
being carried out in the riverbed and because of the activities undertaken
by Dera Radha Swami Satsang Beas, wherein they are extracting sand from the
river bed as well as extending the boundaries of the dera illegally”.

Following on from the previous posts;
Real means that which remains forever.
Nanak calls it “sat”
Beyond time and space.
The unreal by contrast means that which changes.
So we are unreal.
The unreal cannot have salvation , cannot be saved.
The real is already saved.
So all that happens with “realization” is that you let go of the “you” that you think you are.
Hence you stop seeking salvation.
Buddha called it nirvana. The end of all struggle.

Hi Vinny. This land grab and encroachment thing has been going on for decades.
Dera’s boundaries are along the Beas River, so wherever it shifts, so does the boundary. The politicians, right form the village sarpanch’s to the MP’s are either satsangi’s or they are under the influence of RSSB, either thru mutual understandings or for vote bank perceptions. This will continue on until they really piss off a big politician like Modi or someone. Unfortunately, RSSB may go thru the right channels, but the people who make the decisions probably acquiesce to the permits for fear of repercussions. The locals are not advised or consulted in this process.
Just my take on it. It’s not right, but if RSSB goes thru the proper permitting and gets approvals, you can’t do much about it. It falls on the local permitting board and politicians to answer for it. Like i said, someone big or powerful will have to get railroaded along the way and that’s when RSSB will be on it’s heels.
Like what happened in Asola. Buildings were demolished, not just RSSB’s but a lot of people were encroaching on the land, and the government bull dozed everything to the ground.

Sant mat is all about real estate.
Securing your mansion in the highest heaven via “the path.”
Increasing the real estate of the dera and its satellites throughout the world.
Building a real estate empire via loans from corporations controlled by satsangis.
Whatever we think about all of that, we have to admit that Sawan Singh was no dummy. Sawan knew that real estate was the best means to secure RSSB’s future, and the living expenses of the gurus who came after him.

David C Lane’s research opens new paradigm ” Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership” This paradigm seems to comes out of his book “The Unknowing Sage” with the blunt talk of Baba Faqir Chand. I am simplifying it by following example. If someone has given you library I card to use that library you can go to that library, read books but you don’t have ownership of books. You can’t take all the books home saying they are mine. Of course you can take one or two books for reading for a certain time, then also you have to return those books. if you don’t return you pay the fine. Similarly with training of consciousness, anyone can access those higher realms and even predict or know many things of future but you don’t own those realms like you don’t own the library after making the I card for using it. This has dangerous implications which can destroy the Gurudom part of Sant-Mat. Anyone can access those realms and know what he wants to know without any ownership. Baba Faqir Chand was dead right, Gurus were misusing their identity as mere visitors to library and they were projecting to the world that as if they were owners of higher realms. It was cheating, pure and simple, cheating innocent gullible people to have absolute control over them. This has dangerous implications, this means that like air, water, sunlight those realms are for everyone. None has ownership of those realms. David C Lane should come here and clarify. I give “him” permission to use the expression ” Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership” for title of his next book.

“Real means that which remains forever.”
A definition worth nothing more than a pile of feces. Real in no way needs to mean eternally real or permanent.
Your asking for everyone to accept an entire hypothesis grounded on a completely made up assumption for no reason other than that shankarcharya, nanak or whatever other cultural heroes you like said so.
Total garbage.

“Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership” has even more dangerous consequences than mentioned above in my previous post. This also implies that ” Christian Section of Higher Realms Library” is the most dangerous section. When Jesus said be pure as dove sly as snake, he was absolutely correct. If a Christian Woman marries any cunning [Hindu or Sikh], she can spill all the secrets of Christian Dominance over the Earth resulting in downfall of Christians as ruling force over this Earth. This means not all Christians know those secrets which is understandable.

Hey Jesse like the wise Fairy’s recent comment and others previously, I find many of your posts really funny. Brian could collate a history of them into some sort of book of one-liners about Barbed Baba and Bullshit Bashing. I had another look at some of your recent offerings and added a few comments:
9.7 – ’Previously Prem was “Lord of the Universe” and “Guru Maharaj Ji” etc just like all of them. Now he’s just a low key public speaker who wears a suit.’
Imagine going from the Lord of the Universe to becoming one of ‘us’, does he also sell vacuum cleaners?
24.7 – You’re doomed to suffer from objects and subjects until you die. But go ahead and ramble on like a hippy talking about stupid concepts that you inherited from your soma drinking ancestors. My ancestors discussed the same things with different drugs, and they’re equally dead and equally wrong about everything.
Ah the human condition – this blog may help with the Oneness.
The soma question – well said. When I read this I had a picture of all these stoned/DMT loaded Shamans dancing around Gobalki Tepe – 10,000BC. Is this where it all started?
25.7 – Any underlying unifying property that we philosophize about is a waste of time and asking Gurinder Singh Dhillon about it is embarrassing not once, but multiplied by a million. You might as well dance naked and chant hare krishna.
Point is that the vast majority are not going to bother with this -too hard basket. No one is going to bother much even if you do a naked Hare Krishna – an interesting picture!
I once washed pots in a HK restaurant – those guys are a wild bunch, the secret lies in eating heaps of sugared up halava. I really fancied one of the women who served the food … but she got married off.
It’s interesting why Krishna and a lot of these other big players are blue in colour e.g. Shiva, denizens of inner regions, Blue Meanies (Yellow Submarine), – they’re either really cold or there’s something in it…
25.7 – You can’t prove this oneness. It’s a human idea that will be debated until mankind kills itself off with nukes.
If you’re so obsessed with Sikhism though, I should warn you now that Sikhs generally only talk about hair and food.
Now this is a very important piece of info, thanks for the heads up 🙂
25.7 – And though there are millions of cosmological maps out there, it most DEFINITELY is the Indian ones that you personally grew up around and heard every day of your life that are true. Because reasons.
Because Reasons – priceless comment, love it, must remember to use it – powerful magic.
25.7 – The world is a giant plate of infinitely self replicating spaghetti noddles. Prove me wrong.
Great point – kind of a weird twisted zen thing. We need to embrace noodle consciousness – it’s an infinite loop.
Thanks for the laughs!

Hey, if there’s such a thing as noodle consciousness, count me in! Dinner at Jesse’s place tonite. I’ll bring the garlic bread!

Tim, I did a search on spaghetti noddles, its disappeared except for your comment, the whole sentence has been deleted? Such a pity, I thought it was really funny in a strange way… 🙁

Tim, it’s funny because everything I say is as wrong as what everyone else says. I’m laughing at all of humanity grasping at straws while the rest of humanity laughs at me for doing the same. We’re all doomed, and it’s great.

“Everything I say is wrong” -Jesse
“Everything that everyone says is wrong” – Jesse
F*ck me! What a view of the world.
Just observe in silence in that case like the fool on the hill.
And when you finally think of something that is not too wrong, only then write.
Maybe not Everything is wrong.
How do you come out with that conclusion?
No wonder you want to tell everyone to shut up!
Explains how you think and behave.

Oh Osho
You may never understand there is no such Oneness. It does not exist outside your closed mind.
The correct and only path is Non Dualist Unpantheistic Monothing.
All the infamous and unknown mystics have never bothered to reveal or impart this sacred Truth. By chance I gained this esoteric knowledge while eating some granola with yogurt.
As this enlightened moment occurred I realised that I should not go to Haynes Park Satsang next week. I booked me FrightFest tickets instead.
At the end of the day, when all is said and done, I do actually and actively respect other people’s choices regarding spiritual beliefs. With the caveat that you are all wrong.

@mike
When did I say there was such a thing as Oneness?
It is just a label given to that emptiness that remains If you remove all things.
Its not a thing and it doesn’t “exist”
Anyone who says its a thing that can be experienced is deluded.

“Maybe not Everything is wrong.
How do you come out with that conclusion?”
Everything is wrong, and everyone needs to shut up.
My question is why are the words of guru nanak, or lao tse or whoever, but the same amount of importance isn’t given to the words of brian hines, or jesse, or 777?
The owner of this site believes in the benefits of the material sciences, as do most of us here, and we can all pretty much agree that at least for the time being most of the immediately tangible physical universe is identically real to us, and that whatever sciences that can be replicated for some kind of foundation from which we can perform actions with somewhat predictable results. So we have stuff, and senses that we all share. We all equally manipulate objects in 3D and nobody lives in a world where chairs float in the air and fire looks like ice.
Beyond our physicality and non-magical perception what we have, and what we engage in, is philosophical masturbation. Unfalsifiable claims and unprovable hypotheses. The moment you enter that domain you are wrong. You have no way of proving any of what you say. No way of demonstrating it. Nothing but debates, arguments and at the very best mathematical models which in the end are piles of dog crap. We have mathematical models of things far more intimate to us that repeatedly fail ie everything related to the stock market and finance. A mathematical model about the origins of all that exists or that “prove” that something can self create out of nothing is as absurd as taoist master making you drink tiger pee to gain immortality.
I’d say you’re (we’re) even morally wrong for attempting to ask or answer these questions about the origins of consciousness or existence. It’s nothing more than putting ideas into peoples heads to confuse them or get them to join a cult, and cuts should be based on the material, not the spiritual. Beyond that nothing is gained. Nothing is learned. Nobody is benefited from pretending like you or anyone else in the past million years has gotten one millionth of a millimeter closer to “truth.”
We are all wrong and we always will be. I am and you are and brian is as much of a seer and guru as anyone else. We’re all equally and eternally wrong.
Though I would appreciate if you could fund my wrongness. Please send bitcoin.

Mr Osho
This notes for you:
Do you wonder when you wander through the one door
Is it All Oneness there
How does one address their
Undressed Oneness
My Oneness it is I
My Oneness you am I
Softly I imagine
That we us are One
I thought I fought I
Why
Is I arguing with I
Aye

Nobody knows what f*ck they’re talking about. Your experience is your experience. That’s it. Enjoy it if you have it. It’s one, big personal experiment.
If centering yourself brings you peace on a personal level, then good on you. If you believe in the fairy tales about higher regions and you experience something along those lines, good for you.
Beyond that, it’s your experience and enjoy it. Just be happy in your place in life and take care of your families and friends. Be thoughtful and stand up against people being taken advantage of, and call out those leaders, in whatever capacity they are in, if they are charlatans, liars, or show nepotism and bias to mislead the public.
Get out and enjoy life, because it’s too short trying to convert anyone to your own way of thinking or belief system.
No one is right, just do your own thing and keep an open mind.

Ownership of Higher Realms Without Access:
My young paduan is at it again.
He misunderstood the lessons regarding Oneness and has reposted his Oneness poem.
I will instruct him on the futuristic teachings of Wrongness. Also known in higher regions as Nothingness.
Nothingness is all there is, all one can ever experience, without fully understanding the non experience.
Wrongness is when one thought they were right, but weren’t.
The similarities contradict as they should. Always.

@Mike
One does not address the ONENESS.
Addressing requires two.
You and I cannot go visit the oneness. Its not a thing.

@Jesse
You are the new ug krishnamurti.
He is against all spiritual gurus as he believes they are all conmen, just like you believe.
https://youtu.be/tWsNfoiU-_4
Do you hold the same views ?

Arseholes , tippy , ribbon and another arsehole genetic engineering / ribbon-tippy hiding in another name . Nothingness cannot create infinite atomic energy moving electrons and sub atomic particles at quantum velocity. All three of combine together to make another arsehole = Gurudom arsehole. All three of you plus your Gurudom will go into arsehole of Kal/time. You are pimps of shitty Gurudom. Your end/destruction has come.

My thoughts nowadays are, do we become wiser with age or do we become more crazy, lol. I don’t agree with Oneness, maybe only an enlightened being (if they even exist) will feel at one with everything and everyone on this planet. I see this world as being imperfect and I also think like Jesse, everything is wrong. It just does not make any sense.
Some of us strive all our lives to be kind, patient, loving but inside we still have that ego which just makes a mockery of our words and actions. How to survive on this planet in this lifetime and keep sane is a mystery.
This is why magical thinking works because we can pretend that there is a soul and a spiritual realm where we will eventually find beauty and kindness. This is also why people take drugs as an escape and I don’t blame them, even though I desist because I know that drugs are also another trap.

Lol handbags at dawn with the last couple of comments lol.
Jen – hello. You ain’t included in the above statement

Yes Osho. I also believe that UG Krishnamurthi was a conman. I believe that you and I are conmen. Brian is a conman. Donald Trump is a conman. Everyone who disagrees with Donald Trump is a conman.
To be sincere is nearly as impossible as discovering any truths about the origins of existence or whatever plane/ground/who cares what it’s called from which the ourselves, and the shapes, sights and sounds we experience emerge. Existence is a con. Asking questions about existence is masochistic self torture, and providing answers is orgasmic sadism to a significant portion of human society. Eckhart Tolle is a danger to all life on earth but I like him because his face is so innocently elvish and disarming.

“This is why magical thinking works because we can pretend that there is a soul and a spiritual realm where we will eventually find beauty and kindness.”
This is why I wouldn’t mind a theocratic dictatorship. People who are given meaning are less confused and less bothered.
You say Mohamed was a prophet of god and we have this exact set of prescribed rituals we must perform every day or else be slaughtered mercilessly by savage idiots with a bloodlust no other religion has ever produced in men? Ok fine. Just as long as I don’t need to ponder the origins of life.
Freedom is a dangerous trap.

“My question is why are the words of guru nanak, or lao tse or whoever, but the same amount of importance isn’t given to the words of brian hines, or jesse, or 777?” – The infamous Jesse
Well I can think of quite a few reasons.
For one thing, with the exception of Brian, the others are nut cases.
There are a number of nutcases who comment on here and nobody can understand what the heck they are rambling on about.
Okay, I guess you could say the same about Nanak, Lao Tsu, osho, Werner erhard, krishnamurti, sadhguru.
But they have a method to their madness. Once you delve deeper, you see they have a point and a method to awaken to their unique brand of madness so you can all be mad together.
Some are mad for a reason and some are mad for a season.
And some are just plain mad, regardless of season or reason
Here’s a mad guy who says he is Jesus
https://youtu.be/BkC6E6xB9hA

https://youtu.be/P-d3qncxgP0
One more nut case
Maybe I could inform him that he should comment here on churchless, he will be in good company, although I haven’t seen 777 commenting for a while.

“Everyone is a conman” – Jesse
Slight paraphrase by me.
UG is saying that every messiah is a conman. He claims to be no messiah, so how can he be a conman?
Or is he a special breed, an honest conman?
Lots of conmen but at least mr Tolle has a nice face as he too cons people.
My God, Jesse, you should have your videos on YouTube right up there with UG. He is dead now. Are you sure you’re not his secret appointed successor?
Maybe appointed in a dream which is why you are unaware cause you was sleeping at the time

“ I don’t agree with Oneness, maybe only an enlightened being (if they even exist) will feel at one with everything and everyone on this planet. I see this world as being imperfect and I also think like Jesse, everything is wrong. It just does not make any sense.” – Jen
Oneness is not a matter of “feeling at one”
It is realising there can only be one essence.
The world will remain perfect / imperfect or right / wrong.
They don’t exist. Right /wrong are concepts YOU create. Same as perfect.
How do you define “perfect “
If things go according to YOUR plan -perfect.
“Perfect” is a personal view. Not an absolute.
Jesse says “it’s all wrong” everyone is a conman or con woman.
BUT what is “con”?
Depends on how he defines “con”
I may even agree with him and I might call it something else
It’s all subjective
You are making it all up.
You were not born saying “hey – the world is all WRONG” and
“Everyone including my mum is trying to con me”
You set it up that way yourself
Somewhere along the path of life
You got fu*ked up
And now you think the whole world is fucked up
It’s not -you are

Seriously I have learnt more from Osho Robbins than from Sant Mat.
Too bad Osho Robbins did not get appointed as a guru so he does not have fancy deras all over the world where people volunteer their time and money to make him super duper rich.
It makes me sad to see poor people working like slaves in super rich man’s dera only to hear some gibberish talk once in a while. Guess this is how the world works and rich get richer and poor get poorer

You know that UG Krishnamurthi referred to himself as a conman don’t you, Osho? There’s only one reason to respect him, and that is for taking money from his abuse victims. That takes a lot of character to just tell people to f off and make them cry, but also charge them for it… Though I’m not even sure he took money from anyone. He might have been rich already from the family farm.
“they have a method to their madness. Once you delve deeper, you see they have a point and a method to awaken to their unique brand of madness so you can all be mad together. ”
Methods and order aren’t proof of knowledge of existence’s origins. They can organize their god poems however they want. I still don’t believe them or place any value in what they say. If we’re placing value in the words of mystics (i’m not) then what do you say about “by their fruits you will know them” ? Cause the fruits of most of these religions is total environmental destruction, violence, rape and at best megalomania. Megalomania and self induced psychedelic tripping is the top of the mountain.
“Oneness is not a matter of “feeling at one”
It is realising there can only be one essence.”
By “realizing” you mean to say “imagining, assuming and blabbering about.” There need not be “only one essence.” this is just a philosophical claim. Can’t be proved. Can’t be disproved. It’s just empty stupid talk.
You can, and will, continue to say that same line over and over. Without analysis, without introspection about the limits of knowledge and your own knowledge, or about anything else. I will continue to disbelieve that it’s necessarily true.
You know nothing. Zero. Nil. You’re just a talker And so am I. I don’t even know that you don’t know, and yet I’m saying it. You could be the absolute God of the universe. And you could be comprised of two distinct and discrete substances. Two, not one. And those two things that you’re comprised of might be the original source.
How could I know? I couldn’t, cant, and won’t.
“You were not born saying “hey – the world is all WRONG” and
“Everyone including my mum is trying to con me”
You set it up that way yourself
Somewhere along the path of life
You got fu*ked up
And now you think the whole world is fucked up
It’s not -you are”
You’ve never seen someone get shot or beaten nearly to death before, I’m guessing. This sort of shallow positive speaker talk serves only the most sheltered people who can afford to insulate themselves from undeniably real events with fluffy new age talk. “You’re self creating your own world dream!” It’s more insane considering it supposedly follows from “your” oneness “theory.”

“Somewhere along the path of life
You got fu*ked up
And now you think the whole world is fucked up
It’s not -you are”
This statement. Man. Really just think about how psychotic the statement is on its own, but then reverse it to it’s logical opposite.
“Somewhere along the path of life
you got a lot of things you wanted
And now you think the whole world is good
It’s not- you are”
This is the sort of unbounded arrogance that only a religion could create. You guys talk about Donald Trump’s ego and faults, but he’s got nothing on your average mystical devotee.
This thinking is as sick and heartless as those pictures of starving African children with motivational quotes superimposed on them. But it gets a pass because dying and starving people generally don’t see what’s written on the internet in English.

Mr Osho
I am enjoying your comments though I heartily disagree with them.
Dr Eugene Genetics has tasked me with elaborating on many mystical meanderings or some supernatural sentences.
The Light of Wrongness casts a shadow on Nothingness.
In effect, there is no such thing as Oneness, on this we agree. Nothingness is all there is. It is it’s own substantive reality.
Wrongness is unknown to the many unenlightened ones. They tend to believe they are on the right path, but there is no right path. Hence they are all Wrong.
Once they admit they are Wrong they can find Nothingness.
This is the Truest Truth…Ever

Thanks Mike England. I’m happy you too can be wrong with the rest of us.
Some say the universe rests on turtles. Others call it a cosmic egg. To the wrong ones, all that exists is the chocolate covered pornographic coffee bean. Enlightened ones bite the chocolate off and throw away the bitter caffeinated bean.

@Mike
You are correct.
ONENESS is just a word.
NOTHING is also a word.
Both words fail pathetically.
But we have to use SOME word.
And not get caught up by the word.

;0)

“But we have to use SOME word.”
Why? Why do any of us need to talk about this stuff?

@jesse
There CANNOT be TWO
There can only be ONE. Or you can call it ZERO.
Why can’t there be 2,3 or 10 essences?
Here’s why:
If there was more than ONE
Then:
1. They are LIMITED (because one has to end for the next to begin)
2. We are now in the realm of space. Because ending / beginning are SPACE concepts and only happen in Space.
3. We are also in TIME because space and time go together, so we are in MAYA
So that falls clearly into the category of UNREAL as I defined it.
The REAL is Unlimited, unknown, outside of time and space.
So TWO falls outside of the definition of REAL, so is UNREAL. Therefore there CANNOT be TWO or more.
It’s not an option, unless you are happy to just talk shit.
Like 2+2 = 4. Not 5 or 6.
By the definitions (which are the GIVEN or assumptions) there cannot be TWO.
Unless of course you completely don’t understand what I am saying.
In which case it’s not worth continuing because you don’t listen long to understand and just keep on saying “it’s all nonsense”
Well yes it is if you don’t listen to anything.
If I was explaining a mathematical equation, you would have to pay attention to the assumptions first.

Jesse
There is a split in the coffee bean philosophy slash religion.
Followers and Disciples of Sri Kopi Luwak Ji claim the beans that are fermented through the intestines of the Civet, then defecated or shat out, along with other fecal matter are the True source of Reality. The one true ambrosia nectar.
The porno merchants who throw the beans away are missing the opportunity for Grace. They remain decaffeinated.

I have not commented on this blog before. But the magical wordplay on this thread has impelled me to post.
There are many Truths: Oneness. Nothingness. Righteousness. Wrongness.
I would have stayed away from this ping pong match, watched from the sidelines, but mention of Their Holiness Sri Kopi Luwak Ji could not pass unnoticed.
To the chosen initiates, the coffee cherries, eaten by the Civet, then shit out it’s bumhole provide all the vital macro and micro nutrients the body requires. The shit coveted cherries are cleaned before brewing. Most important this.
The spiritual bliss provided is truly enlightening.

Osho, I’m sorry you think that what you’re writing is something that should be taken seriously.
“he REAL is Unlimited, unknown, outside of time and space. ”
Sounds pretty scientific.
“So TWO falls outside of the definition of REAL, so is UNREAL. Therefore there CANNOT be TWO or more. ”
Oh shit. I didn’t know you went to college. I stand corrected. This is DEEP. You are really smart.

“So that falls clearly into the category of UNREAL as I defined it. ”
AS I DEFINED IT.
The unfathomable universe must follow the rules that Osho Robbins, failed youtube cult creator and frequent comment writer on a blog dictates. That’s just the way it is folks. Ice cream is also cold because Osho Robbins defined cold as something that is cold. Creation follows from his assertions. Don’t ask why.
We’re dealing with genius here and I think we need to take what he says very seriously. The dude has all existential problems figured out, and we just don’t get it.
“There CANNOT be TWO There can only be ONE. Or you can call it ZERO! I DEFINED REALITY ALREADY! DON’T YOU SEE!!!???” he maniacally screamed as the mental health workers loaded him into a padded cell.

“Why? Why do any of us need to talk about this stuff?” – Jesse
Well there’s your answer. You are talking, replying. That’s why. And you are using words.
Jesse, you have a seriously messed up map of the world. Move over UG let Jesse in. Self proclaimed conman who so far has not even explained his definition of “con”

@Jesse,
Any logical arguments needs clear definitions so that we are clear exactly what we are saying.
Otherwise we end up talking complete crap. You don’t have any definitions hence you say anything and one statement is as wrong as the next, but that makes complete sense to you because
1. We are all wrong
2. We are all conning others
3. Nobody is ever right, not even Jesse
Hmmm….
Interesting world you live in.

“Aad Sach, jugaad Sach, hai ve Sach, Nanak hosi ve Sach. ” guru Nanak
“Was true in the beginning, will be true in all the ages, IS true now, WILL always be true. ”
This is Nanaks definition. That which always remains the same, changeless, encompasses all time and space, doesn’t move, is not born, doesn’t die, is infinite, He calls it the ONE.
You can call it whatever you want, but Nanak is explaining what he means by Sach. That’s his definition of REAL.
Of course you don’t have to accept his definition of real.
You can instead go around chanting the magical mantra
“I’m wrong, you’re wrong
I’m an idiot, you’re an idiot.
I’m a conman and you’re a conman,
Since I am always wrong, I don’t
Need definitions.”
Of course your thinking creates how you perceive the world.
What a perception.
UG was right, We’re all wrong.
Wait a minute, I thought UG was WRONG
Which means we must all be RIGHT.
Anyway, who cares, its all just random words because we don’t need definitions.
Jesse, if you’re going to make a point, at least have some logic.
Right now, your statements are just random nonsensical hilarious bullshit

Now I know I am just a silly little fairy, but from a human physical point of view every human being is 99.5% the same! Exactly the same DNA!How is that for a Oneness connection. Now this is a scientific fact. Where have we all taken that ONE memory DNA gene from? Of course the other 5% dissected and broken down, could put a bit of a spanner in the works. Isn’t it our humanness that makes mankind connected?As for the metaphysical stuff, well science is finding out new things all the time. Take the LHC at Cern. I think it is important just to pay attention to every short moment we have. I remember drawing lines on my face with a cosmetic pencil when I was 16 to see how I would look at 60+. That was just yesterday!😂💫 I hope when I die, I become a universe. Then maybe I will know things. But in saying so, who said, “I think, therefore, I am”. ? There is no harm in pondering over our reasons for being.

Jesse, create a new religion, call it
“The Idiot’s guide to the galaxy”
Run classes and tell everyone
“You’re wrong, I’m wrong
You’re an idiot, I’m an idiot
You’re a conman, I’m a conman”
And if someone asks
“What do you mean?”
Just say, “very mean, idiots don’t need
Meanings, words or definitions, because we’re wrong anyway
And we’re idiots, and we have no ego
So we don’t care. Welcome to my
Wrong enlightenment”
777 and probably 888 will be your first
None disciples. Wait a minute, there is no 888, he doesn’t exist yet.
But we have no need of definitions so its okay. “Hey 888, are you there? Or here? Do you even exist? What does “exist” even mean! Fuck me who cares
Hand me the hukka, let’s get high, or low, it’s all the same, its all ONE,
Wait a minute, I don’t believe in the ONE so it must all the TWO. But it can’t be…. ……
Just then, the men in white coats arrive and now it all makes sense, finally

@Jesse
Do you also consider Richard Dawkins to be a “conman” a term which you have not yet defined.
https://youtu.be/mOlCgHlkIgM
And is he also wrong?
Clearly God is wrong
But what about Satan ?
Sat purush ?
And his first cousin Mr Anami Purush
And his second cousin twice removed
Sir Agam
And his fourth cousin once not removed, Swami Alakh ji Maharaja
All this is making sense? Or is it Wrong?

Dear Fairy
The correct quote is:
I think before I am.
I initially read it as before 1am but that doesn’t make sense.
I do like your end note:
There is no harm in pondering over our reasons for being.
Although some schools of thought say our reason for being is to ponder, harmlessly.

Osho, which fairy tale do you believe in? Kabir? Nanak, Dariya, Paltu, Soami Ji? How about L Ron Hubbard? He just made up a bunch of crap and wrote a book, attracted the right people, and left a legacy of bullshit still being propagated today. David Miscavige is rich, the head of the “religion” because people will literally pay to have more and more enlightenment.
So someone decides to write stuff in a book and everyone believes it, because….? No one knows because no one comes back and says f*ck me: it was real! or for f*ck’s sake, what a scam!
Believe what makes you feel good, but don’t pretend to KNOW anything, because you don’t. Just because someone wrote it in a book, doesn’t make it right, whether it was yesterday or 500 years ago. Scientology and other “religions” prove my point. It’s made up stuff to make you feel guilty, make you subservient, to make you follow blindly through fear.
If everything comes back to the”One” as you say, then what difference does it make what you do, or don’t do? If you meditate and be an asshole, then you can achieve it, or not meditate and be a “good” person and achieve it. Or not meditate and be an asshole and still achieve it. Or is there anything really to achieve? No one knows, and no one will ever know. Believe what you want.
It’s all hot air. Be honest in your dealings with other people, because they are just as lost as the rest of us. Anyone who says they know better than the rest of us is full of shit. You can only have your opinion, that’s it, but you will never know.

The universe doesn’t need to align with your attempt at logic, Osho. That is my point. You say there must be one because. Just because.
Listen. In your amateur logician mind your thinking that if one were to take all of existence and non existence it’s one thing . You can draw a circle around it. And if someone were to say “there’s an element outside of that circle” you would expand the circle to include that new element.
I’m saying that there is no reason not to accept a paradox grander than your small imagination. One that could “allow” for two. Two independent, discrete,parallel, self created universes. They are not one. There was no shared or common ground or plane from which they emerged.
Not one. Two. Five. A million. Who cares what guru nanak said? This is supposed to be churchlessness. Not Sikhism for 3rd graders or tao te ching coffee table books.

“Do you also consider Richard Dawkins to be a “conman” a term which you have not yet defined.”
Yes. He is wrong. And no matter how much you desire to be believed and to think your spiritual views are inerrant, you and every one of the philosophical speculations about the universe you attach yourself too will continue to be as wrong as Richard Dawkins. Unless of course you have both a time machine and some kind of magical power to see and know all that you’re not telling us about. But even then you could be wrong.
My definition of a conman is anyone who presents as fact their opinion on the nature, origins, or limitations of existence, the universe etc. But we need not use the term conman. We could just as well say liar, egomaniac, mental case, confused person, or any number of other descriptors and adjectives.
But don’t be so bothered. If you’re confident in this neutral oneness, what I say is just a wave in the sea of neutrality that you can take far less seriously than you are.

Hi Jesse
You ask
“Who cares what guru nanak said?”
Anyone who loves his spiritual poetry…
“Kindness, generosity, brotherly love…. Let these be your religion.”
Nanek
Those words tower so high they disappear from our view.. They are so great, so immense, we can hardly understand them. But they are compelling.
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”
Jesus
Everyone reads these words. But in the hearts of some of us, we are utterly destroyed and remade by them… With only the smallest contemplation which we cannot help but give. They take hold, and never let go. They are beyond us. Yet we are both imprisoned and liberated by them.
They set a standard we strive our entire lives to reach, forgetting and falling, remembering and standing up again. Standing up for these words. And any progress, however meager, our only treasure.

@jesse
By your definition of conman, UG is not a conman. He definitely is not presenting his opinion as fact about the origins of the universe.
Your definition also shows you have not understood what I wrote at all.
Otherwise you would not make the statements you have made.

Amar,
I don’t believe in any of them.
They happen to match my own experience. Not interested in believing.
Awakening or enlightenment is not a belief.
Unless you study it as a belief, for instance as in Buddhism.
Zen is as close as you get to truth because you cannot fit it into a box and simply “understand” it.
Werner Erhard created EST in the 70’s
EST was not a belief system. It was something you had to go through. To talk about it without going through it was pointless.
Enlightenment is the same. Go realise it, then you can speak, otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about.

Some people like Jesse and Amar are not interested in enlightenment.
That is perfectly okay. However anything they say about it will be nonsense. Like me talking about India when I’ve never been there, only read books, compared to someone who has been many times.
Mine will be opinions. The person who has been will be stating facts.
Just because you have not been to India does not mean nobody has been.
By the way, I am literally talking about India here not enlightenment.
With enlightenment there are other factors because it’s not as simple as going to India.

@Jesse
So you finally defined conman.
Well done.
Basically you mean anyone who claims to know what you consider to be unknowable,
But you might be wrong. It might be knowable.
Watch Richard Dawkins
https://youtu.be/mOlCgHlkIgM
Now explain how you consider him to be a conman or a liar.
He is asking the Muslim guy if he believes Mohammed flew on a winged horse to heaven. Obviously Richard doesn’t,
Exactly how does that make Richard a conman by your definition.
You also said Brian was a conman. Again please explain how.
Also UG
By your definition they are not conmen

I love the books of Sufi Master Hazrat Inayat Khan..
It’s always about wisdom and Love..
Especially Love is main thing in life..
I do’nt want to discuss him,because he is too precious to me.
But maybe someone can enjoy.
One can look it up if one wants.
<3

“Your definition also shows you have not understood what I wrote at all.
Otherwise you would not make the statements you have made. ”
Ok great. You’re too smart. There’s just one, and we all must believe you.
This is boring now.

Spence, do you require pedantic hand holding at all times? Should I provide an American English guide PDF with my posts?
Let me finish the question in totality. “Who cares what Guru Nanak says about the nature, origins, or limitations of existence?” And if we really are going for online autism awards I guess it must be also stated that “who cares?” isn’t a literal question. It is a colloquialism that in normal human interactions acts as a rhetorical statement that is understood by most as meaning “this subject isn’t valuable” or “this thing is not relevant” or whatever.
It’s great that some 15th century spiritual teacher said “you just gotta love people man” but did it really leave any lasting positive impression on peoples minds? Do his followers love any more than anyone else? You could take note of the constant fights that happen around the world in Gurdwaras and mark that down as a definite “no.” As you noted, Jesus said similar stuff much earlier, and while it has inspired a lot of folks to do good, it’d be hard to quantify whether he had supernatural powers or was being so profound that we normal plebs just can’t understand.
Even if THE MYSTICS had made the purest hippy commune of all time, does that prove anything about a multiverse or Osho’s ever-so-enlightened theory of panantheism or any other philosophical claim whatsoever? Does it prove my disbelief in everything any more right or wrong? No.
So again, who cares what any of these people said? What is the value on speculating one way or another? There is no master’s finger pointing at any proverbial moon. There are only drooling slobs seeking approval and validation from the world, staring off into space, high on their own supply of speculation and pointing at a urine stained list of their shitty ideas.

Hey Osho, dude, get over yourself. You make too many assumptions about who I am based on a few comments. You imply I haven’t had enlightenment based on your criteria. My apologies.
The way you bend the teachings of religious texts to suit your agenda, you should easily be able to blow yourself.
I may not know what I’m talking about, but neither do you. I am enlightened enough to realize that I know nothing, I can only surmise, give my opinion or extrapolate, but I don’t truly know.
You should have the humility and grace to admit it as well.

Amar, Kool Keith actually did a song about the topic of others being enlightened and how we are to respond upon finding out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH4Y16Hb6RM

“ You make too many assumptions about who I am based on a few comments. You imply I haven’t had enlightenment based on your criteria. “
– Amar about himself.
That’s exactly what YOU do if only you had enough awareness to see it.
“I may not know what I’m talking about, “. -Amar
Too right dude. But you act like you know everything. People who “know nothing” don’t write the kind of nonsense that you write. Clearly you feel you know everything – including who is and isn’t enlightened and exactly what enlightenment means.
You seem to have it all figured out, but then you must have read somewhere that “enlightenment means to know nothing” so you added that to your list of what enlightenment is.
“ I can only surmise, give my opinion or extrapolate, but I don’t truly know.” – Amar
Well said. Amar. So get more accurate. After every statement you make, say, “in my opinion only, I don’t actually know”
Now go back and read your posts.
All your posts clearly and emphatically make out that not only do you KNOW but that you know absolutely.
So obviously you are lying. And because you are lying, you project that onto every person out there. Like Jesse you then conclude “the world is full of liars and conmen”
And to make it even more real, listen to songs that say “I don’t believe you” like jesse’s Favourite sing that he just posted for you.
It is required listening before you are allowed to join the “Jesse and Amar know everything including that they know nothing” club.
Get a grip, mate. If you really know nothing, then stop acting like you know everything.
Make up your mind do you know everything or nothing? Or like Jesse are you a self proclaimed liar, conman and an idiot.

“And by the way, Baba Ji doesn’t need anything from you. You need to do the meditation for yourself. Don’t give your inner power away to anyone. Everything is inside. People without a guru have had the same experiences, if not more, than ones who align with a guru. I know that from my own personal experience.
I’ve found it’s not really about the sounds or the lights inside, it’s about the feeling of centering yourself and becoming silent. The rejuvenation and awareness that comes from just sitting in the silence is the real payoff.”
– 23 July 7:45am from Amar the man who claims to know nothing.
To quote Amar: “I KNOW that from my own personal experience”
And now he says
“You can’t know anything- it’s all just opinions”
Make up your mind dude.
Either you CAN know as you claimed to know or you CANT – but you’re claiming both.
Oh I get it now, finally, you’re a liar and a conman because you are a fan of Jesse and he proudly claims those virtues
All makes sense now

Amar you just write this:
“I may not know what I’m talking about, but neither do you. I am enlightened enough to realize that I know nothing”
But then why do you write like you KNOW? You write about the financial scandal as if you were there personally supervising.
You write about the “spiritual experience” you had through meditation stating that you KNOW.
You claim to know a hell of a lot for a person who claims to know nothing.
You even claim to know that everyone is a liar, or was that Jesse? Just get initiated by Jesse and get it over with. Then the two of you can create the new religion of “I know nothing yet I know everything too”

Osho, your arrogance is nauseating. You keep saying Osho kept saying don’t put me on a pedestal, I’ll cut the legs off. Why do you keep bringing up Osho? He was a fake, that’s why he kept saying it. GSD says the same thing. He knows he’s not what everyone claims he is. He doesn’t want the RSSB house to come tumbling down and go down in history as the one who did it.
Rajneesh was like any other”guru”: charismatic and spoke well, but no substance behind his facade. Maybe you hoped he’d leave one of his Rolls Royce’s to you. I don’t understand what the hell you’re constantly talking about. You sound like a confused manjit.
You try presenting yourself as an expert but only come out sounding arrogant and truly clueless.
Regarding the financial scandal, I only speak to the court orders. I didn’t make them up. Maybe you should go have an argument with the High Court judges if you don’t believe them, or not. Don’t really care.
As far as my experiences, I have had them, and continue to have them, but what does it mean? Probably shit, probably something. I don’t know. Have you ever said that before, 3 words: I. Don’t. Know. Is it even part of your vocabulary?
Good day “osho”.

OshoRobbins
You have hit the nail firmly on the head.
The Religion of Knowing Nothing.
When can I get initiated

Osho,
3 things are given during initiation. Simran, Dhyan and Bhajan.
You keep repeating meditating on the 5 holy words is not necessary to merge into the One.
You are right in a way as the primary role of Simran is to help you with Dhayan and Bhajan. It’s these two that finally matter. Simran facilitates or rather polishes your ability to do dhayan and bhajan.
This is not meant to in any way trivialise the importance of simran – for as the true masters say; it’s only the simran bit that is really in the hands of the individual.
And yes, it’s usually 5 words, but no stopping a perfect master giving an individual just one completely unrelated word.

Vinny,
What do you know about the much disliked (amongst sant mat followers) Kaal.
Firstly he wasn’t one who listed for a kingdom of would which he currently presides over. Nobody and absolutely nobody will ever reveal the secret why God created this entire creation and Kal.
Having created the creation, Kal has been assigned the administrative responsibility of managing it.
He is potrayed as a negative force and the cause of all our sufferings and separation from the Supreme Being. But there is no better disciple of the Supreme than Kal and no better administrator than him.
All he does his meditate standing on his big toe having delegated the administration to his wife and three children.
And he plays within the Supreme’s law of karma. Reap what ye shall sow. Of course he doesn’t want to any souls escaping the karmic cycle and has managed to wriggle out three boons which give him huge advantages.
In one of your posts you rant about how earlier masters protected followers from Kal’s plays and allude it’s not the case now as the present master himself has succumbed to Kal.
You can’t be more misplaced on this. Rest assured the spiritual prowess of the present master far exceeds that of earlier ones. The Great Master pretty directly said it, referring to Hazur long before he was appointed Guru.
Besides I urge you to hear some satsangs delivered on what the Guru does and won’t do. Probably you will have some appreciation then for what Master do and have always done for their good for nothing disciples.
Yes the financial dealings surrounding GSD and his family is disturbing. What Masters bring onto themselves and why, is best left to their mysterious ways and wisdom.
Someone mentioned he is just like us – a human. He contracted cancer. Yes his physical form is. His body will perish. That’s the law of the material world.
But can anyone in here proclaim that he has even once heard GSD saying – I am a perfect master or God incarnate? Has he ever said He (the physical form) has to be worshipped and which will lead you to the Supreme being?
Tolerance of other’s belief and no attempts to influence or misguide people into the path are unmatched. Show me another sect in India which displays this.
How many in here know that the Great Master(I hope I got this right) once told a seeker that what I preach is what I received from my Master. But if you know something better from another then please tell me and take me along to that other. Sign of absolute belief in the supremacy of the path and lineage.
If mass following doesn’t sway him I doubt the greed for money would. But the financial deals have occurred. No denying that. Probably family and extended family. Hopefully will know once courts decide.
Btw – Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela – is one of his most repeated lines in satsangs.

SP, thanks for regurgitating what’s in the RSSB books. Just because it is written in there, doesn’t mean it’s true or authentic. You will never be able to prove any of it. Believe what you want, but don’t present it as facts.
Nice game these guru’s play. Do the simran or repetition and he’ll take care of the rest. No progress? Try harder. Tried harder and still no progress? Must be your karmas. Carry on dirty little human. Help will be there when you die. Oh, right. GSD says he won’t be there.
Shit, now what?!

“OshoRobbins
You have hit the nail firmly on the head.
The Religion of Knowing Nothing.
When can I get initiated ” – Michael
you have to speak to Jesse and Amar as it’s their path

Amar: The person who KNOWS NOTHING (according to himself)
YET – Surprise surprise. Here’s a few things he appears to KNOW
even though the said “I know nothing – I just have opinions”
1. Why do you keep bringing up Osho? He was a fake, that’s why he kept saying it. GSD says the same thing. He knows he’s not what everyone claims he is. He doesn’t want the RSSB house to come tumbling down and go down in history as the one who did it.
[MY comments: WHY NOT? I can bring up who I want to – what business is it of yours? especially as you KNOW NOTHING! so the “OSHO was a fake” is a FACT or just your OPINION.
If it’s a FACT then prove it, otherwise if it’s an opinion – talk to the hand
The statement about GSD – is that also you OPINION – of great one who KNOWS nothing but has lots of opinions]
2. Rajneesh was like any other”guru”: charismatic and spoke well, but no substance behind his facade. Maybe you hoped he’d leave one of his Rolls Royce’s to you. I don’t understand what the hell you’re constantly talking about. You sound like a confused manjit.
[once again – YOUR OPINIONS or FACTS??]
3. Regarding the financial scandal, I only speak to the court orders. I didn’t make them up. Maybe you should go have an argument with the High Court judges if you don’t believe them, or not. Don’t really care.
[ But the high court judge didnt say “I KNOW NOTHING – YOU DID!]
4. As far as my experiences, I have had them, and continue to have them, but what does it mean? Probably shit, probably something. I don’t know. Have you ever said that before, 3 words: I. Don’t. Know. Is it even part of your vocabulary?
[ Experiences are just your mind playing tricks on you. Enlightenment is not an experience]
You seem to have a LOT to say for someone who KNOWS NOTHING.

“SP, thanks for regurgitating what’s in the RSSB books. Just because it is written in there, doesn’t mean it’s true or authentic. You will never be able to prove any of it. Believe what you want, but don’t present it as facts.” – AMAR
no – in order to be true or authentic – Amar has to say it or write it.
But Amar – you said you know NOTHING – yet you just told SP not to present his OPINIONS as FACTS.
However – you have already stated that you ONLY have OPINIONS – not facts. So why exactly do you present YOUR OPINIONS as FACTS?

@SP
“Ram Ram sab koi kahai, kahi Ram na hoi”
The whole world says “Ram Ram” [i.e. Jap, or Simran]
but by repeating Ram does not manifest.
Why not?
Because RAM is already the case.
“Kabira dekh dekh aavi Haasi, Jal mein Meend piyasi”
Kabira, looking at the fish I laugh, living in water, it says “I am thirsty”
Watch this video from 9.5 mins in.
from the days when I used to do satsang.
(2002)
I quote the scriptures that clarify that god is ever present
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G7jTT8Nak8

@ Spence,
I see you have decided to add the name Prof Jenny Genetics to your list and you have also posted a few comments with your favourite pseudonyms: Mike England and Dr Eugene Genetics and as per usual these comments don’t make any sense, totally different to when you use the name Spence.
Multiple Personality Disorder?

Osho Robbins, man. Chill out. Your latest, and deadest, guru isn’t getting offended from his urn. You have no reason to be so defensive about him either.
Just look at the new guru, his brother, and do dhyan on the funny hat. It’s soft, fluffy, and has a shining glittery element to it.
You’re taking the knowing nothing part literally when it should be taken figuratively, and taking your own knowledge of religious scripture as some sort of scientific achievement instead of realizing you wasted a lot of time. The wires are all twisted in your mind. Religion does that.

Thanks Osho. You just answered all my questions. You’re the best. But you can’t admit it can you? Can you say it? Can you even whisper it to yourself? I don’t know. It’s not that hard. Really, give it a try.
And everything I stated, which you happily rewrote, were my opinions.
I did not state them as facts. There, I clarified it for you. If you think they’re facts, knock yourself out, have at her.
I replied to SP that what he was regurgitating what was written in the RSSB texts, and stating them as facts. Which I believe to not be true, which means that I don’t think they are facts as stated by him. My opinion. Not that difficult to understand I hope. Maybe from now on I’ll have to spell it out for you since you’ll lose sleep over it.
Nobody needs to listen to your “satsangs” Osho. “I quote the scriptures”, really how wonderful! You know nothing except to take the inspired writings of other individuals and make them your own. Get over yourself. This last statement is a fact.
You appear to have a lot say about everything. Good for you. Keep typing. With your comments above, you show your arrogance, self deprecating manner and overall sense of higher self worth. I’m sure Brian at least appreciates your comments, since he allows us to banter back and forth. At least I know when to admit when I’m wrong or to clarify myself, unlike you.
Good day sir! I leave you to your musings. Over and out.

So what’s it that you believe Amar? Surely it’s not Gurudom ya. So what’s it?
Is it Hinduism? Christianity or some other Or you an atheist?
Whatever it is let’s have facts to back it up ya…..
Prove Jesus ever existed born of a virgin. Can anybody claim to have met Ram, Brahma or Vishnu or whoever they/you regard as God or messenger of God? Beliefs sourced from scriptures only right.
Atheist huh – pretty cool. Just because you can’t prove it means it’s not factual. By this logic, the earth was flat until about 6BC and then it changed its shape or the sun was the centre of the universe until Renaissance-era and then it decided to give up this pivotal position. This list can go on and on. Prove big bang. Prove that something as large and ever growing could emerge out of nothing or show me that whatever it is which held all this within itself.
Point I am making here is that just because one cannot prove something doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Let’s take a simple example – a Amsterdam to Paris train ride. You take one and diarise everything. I come along and tell you to provide proof of every mountain, tree, lamp post, station you passed on the way and you say well I have seen it myself. Am I correct in concluding that the diary is a figment of your imagination?
Are you able to provide conclusive proof that God doesn’t exist or that God cannot and has not manifested in human form.
Gurus are frauds. Fine. There certainly is Merit in this statement. No dearth of individuals who turn to Gurudom as their business. What’s the Pope and other keepers of religion then? Owners of their respective Gods? Protectors of their Gods? Jesus the only son of God. My Allah, My God, etc this basic premise of religion is a joke. Jesus is our saviour – prove it. The fella died 2000 years ago. A book, an element, a structure, an act being the ticket to salvation – prove it my friend. This other side is disgusting. But maybe that’s your preference.
Maybe you miss a crucial point that if since the time of the first revealed religion – a prophet/a human form has been pivot, to guide (certainly none came with the objective of founding a religion), why cannot it be the case in 2019 and in times to come?
Science and scientists are a joke – embarked on a journey of trial and error. They know a shit about the observable universe forget multiverse and other astral regions. Use some theoretical models to fast track what 13.8 billion years ago could be like today. Arrive at conclusions (placed as facts) based on their collective current understanding. Like earth was flat or sun revolved around the earth at varying points of time. Grow up.
Wonder why people like you went to school and colleges. Gurus(teachers) are frauds and serve no purpose right. You might have been more enlightened if you had just stuck to either yourself, reading books or communicating with inanimates or lower life forms. Need a human to teach you the mundane things like arithmetic tables and then supposedly evolve in life and conclude a guru isn’t required for God realisation.
Amazing indeed.

Osho,
I’m not sure if GSD has said (in UK) that he won’t come when his disciple dies. Can’t even comment on how well his utterances are understood by the sangat there.
Many things he says is at varying degrees of divergence from what older RSSB followers may have heard or read. But never have heard him say that he won’t be present at the time of death.(i’ll come back to this again later)
What’s clear to me is (and like you, at times much to my dislike as well) that he’s trying to limit atleast the newer initiates to just the core rather than them wandering into and taking comfort in once initiated God realisation will but happen. Why? I am not capable to decipher. Can atmost offer some fickle reasoning like he doesn’t want his disciples to go through the long drawn and increasingly painful process over multiple births. But being in a family associated with the sect for many many years, even the subtlest of divergences stand out like a sore thumb. And yes there are few more such divergences. Probably your association is also pretty long.
They say a dying man never lies ya….. And I confirm all passing aways in my family (and I would like to limit myself to that set and not get into 3rd party references) have had a commonality – sighting the radiant form of their master. So Osho, GSD may say whatever he wants – my belief still is even if he as GSD doesn’t want to be present when my time comes the shabd taking his form will have to be there. Else why the oft repeated – you may leave the master, but the master never lets go off his disciples. Don’t let this bit create any doubts about sant mat.
Don’t you see and feel his kindness as a master? It shines through. Like you said in the satsang you shared – maybe we don’t know how to receive. Have you ever met him in private? For long I always held that Hazur’s grace, kindness and aura will remain unmatched (when I have been initiated by GSD), but believe me GSD is a rockstar master.
He may have started saying a lot of disturbing things like I will not come at your death or there is no guarantee of next life as a satsangi or no such thing as three lives at most or I will do nothing – it’s all your effort and the Almighty’s grace – but for me there is not a single day which is without his grace. Each day could have been hell but for him and his grace without he even once taking an iota of credit.
These days at least in India, in his discourses he ends up begging disciples to attend to their meditation stating it’s only for their gain and not his. Just sit – munn Lage ya na Lage or even if you fall asleep. He is willing to tick the box that you did your bit and present your case to the Almighty. You really think he will dump you at / after death?
If yes, do let me know if you know of another path which gives you an executable guarantee that you will be taken care of after death.

GSD, his close associates and his family embroiled in a financial scandal…….
Is it the beginning of the end of RSSB? Could be. Even this lineage (of perfect masters) will end – like all others. Who knows in about 100 years from now Radhasoami could be another religion with the power having moved out of RSSB. Not all ten gurus were perfect masters. Not all branches of Soamiji have had perfect masters.
Will The Golden Temple have some serious competition in future – our very own Satsang Ghar in Beas – which GSD often says that he will demolish if disciples don’t stop treating it like God’s abode?
No point debating this eventuality. The end will happen at some point in time. If it’s meant to happen during GSD’s tenure – not much he will do to prevent it from happening. All true masters never interfere in the Will of the Almighty even when they can. Of course as a follower I don’t wish this to happen in my lifetime.
PS: End means the Spiritual Head not a Perfect Master.

@SP

“So Osho, GSD may say whatever he wants – my belief still is even if he as GSD doesn’t want to be present when my time comes the shabd taking his form will have to be there. Else why the oft repeated – you may leave the master, but the master never lets go off his disciples. Don’t let this bit create any doubts about sant mat.”

You don’t even understand what he is saying.
Just like most of the audience at his satsangs.
He is saying:
1. There is only the ONE – so NOBODY can come to COLLECT anyone.
2. There is NOWHERE to take the soul to even if he did come
3. These are all concepts – go beyond them.
4. You already ARE the ONE because only the ONENESS exists, but you are deluded
because you feel you are separate (because you have a body and a mind)
His often repeated verse: Paltu – there is only the ONE – there is no other.
Unless you at least understand oneness – your question will remain no matter what he or anyone says.
you are seeking a duality fairy tale – it doesnt exist.
there IS and never has been a SEPARATE YOU.
in 100 years from today – there will be no YOU
What you think is YOU is nothing more than a passing phase – a wave in the ocean.
You don’t have a soul that need to be saved. there is only the oversoul. no separate souls that need to unite with the oversoul.
there is only the ocean – the waves are a passing phase and not real – they have no existence separate from the ocean

@SP
Everyone is at a different stage of their journey through life.
some of us need the consolation and comfort of knowing (believing) that the master (or jesus0 will take care of it all and SAVE me.
I was there too once . No big deal and nothing wrong with it.
Some people like Amar and Jesse go to the other extreme. They are extreme disbelievers and in my opinion they are deluded.
One important point you have missed about an ATHEIST is this:
An atheist is not saying “There is NO GOD”
Jesse and Amar might be saying that – I am not sure what they are saying and it hardly matters because mostly they just write nonsense.
And atheist says: I AM NOT SURE – I DON’T KNOW.
He is not DENYING GOD – just saying he has no proof.
so – your question: “Are you able to provide conclusive proof that God doesn’t exist or that God cannot and has not manifested in human form.”
cannot be addressed to an atheist – because that is not the atheist position.
An atheist is taking an HONEST position: “I DON’T KNOW”
that cannot be a lie. He makes no claim at all.

SP,
I hope you have read books by Baba Faqir Chand, If yes what do you get from his books? He spoke openly about fraud, massive wealth accumulation and other harmful practices of modern day Gurus.
Are you aware of what is now called the Chandian Effect?

Amar states above:

And everything I stated, which you happily rewrote, were my opinions.
I did not state them as facts. There, I clarified it for you. If you think they’re facts, knock yourself out, have at her.

well done in actually answering for once.
Now let’s see what you actually wrote:
He (Osho) was a fake, that’s why he kept saying it. GSD says the same thing. He knows he’s not what everyone claims he is. He doesn’t want the RSSB house to come tumbling down and go down in history as the one who did it.
Those are written as statements of FACT – not opinion.
Opinion would be this:
In my opinion, I BELIEVE Osho was a fake – but hey – I could be wrong. I don’t have any evidence – I have never met him and never seriously looked into him – but still it’s my OPINION that he is a fake.
but you wrote a statement of fact.: He (Osho) WAS a fake.
that is a statement. it’s not an opinion.
If you have an OPINION – state it as an OPINION – instead of pretending that YOU KNOW.
Everyone has an OPINION.
Nobody (except you) cares what your OPINION is.
UNLESS you are in any way QUALIFIED to have an accurate opinion.
Be honest enough to QUALIFY your statements with the “I THINK” and “IN MY OPINION” words
and see what happens.
You can no longer proclaim to he RIGHT – and you’ll realize that you have no idea.
here, let me do one for you, to get you started:
You wrote:
“Hey Osho, dude, get over yourself. You make too many assumptions about who I am based on a few comments. You imply I haven’t had enlightenment based on your criteria. My apologies.
The way you bend the teachings of religious texts to suit your agenda, you should easily be able to blow yourself.
I may not know what I’m talking about, but neither do you. I am enlightened enough to realize that I know nothing, I can only surmise, give my opinion or extrapolate, but I don’t truly know.
You should have the humility and grace to admit it as well.”
new version would be

Hey Osho, IN MY OPINION, You make too many assumptions about who I am based on a few comments.
IN MY OPINION, You imply I haven’t had enlightenment based on your criteria. OF COURSE I COULD BE WRONG – BUT THAT’S HOW I UNDERSTOOD YOUR STATEMENTS.
IN MY OPINION, The way you APPEAR TO bend the teachings of religious texts to suit your agenda (AS I PERCEIVE IT), you should easily be able to blow yourself.
IN MY OPINION, I may not know what I’m talking about, BUT TO BE HONEST I OBVIOUSLY DO BECAUSE I AM WRITING ALL THIS.
but IN MY OPINION, neither do you, BECAUSE OF COURSE – YOU MUST BE JUST LIKE ME, OR AT LEAST THAT IS HOW I SEE IT.
IN MY OPINION, I am enlightened enough to realize that I know nothing.
IN MY OPINION, I can only surmise, give my opinion or extrapolate, but I don’t truly know.
IN MY OPINION, You should have the humility and grace to admit it as well, IF THAT IS YOUR POSITION, WHICH IT IS MY OPINION THAT IT MUST BE.

Now that would be an HONEST comment. but what you do is PRETEND that you KNOW
and then when challenged – admit that you don’t
that is dishonest.
You pretend to KNOW until someone challenges you – then you admit – they are all assumptions and OPINIONS and that you KNOW NOTHING.
What are OPINIONS worth?
I might have an opinion that the earth is FLAT.
doesn’t make it true – and if I am not qualified to judge – then the opinion has no value.
Why is YOUR opinion more important or true compared to someone else’s opinion?
SP believes in the RSSB teachings – he doesnt know – just believes (has an opinion)
YOU (AMAR) don’t believe – so you have an OPINION that it’s all bullshit.
They are both opinions.

Jesse and Amar are both ignorant of the finer points of gurbani, in my opinion.
to back up my opinion, I present this audio of maskeen where he talks about a few of those finer points.
Jesse says Sikhs are all about long hair – well obviously not ALL sikhs.
so that’s a massive generalisation.
in the audio maskeen talks about desireless action and also that no ACTION gets you there
meaning: no meditation or anything that you think earns you merit.
Just repeating words will get you nowhere – according to gurbani as I perceive it.
Ram Ram sab koi kahi
here’s a link to the ashtavakra gita
that maskeen speaks of
https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Ashtavakra-Gita-ebook.pdf

Osho, you wrote: “So Osho, GSD may say whatever he wants – my belief still is even if he as GSD doesn’t want to be present when my time comes the shabd taking his form will have to be there. Else why the oft repeated – you may leave the master, but the master never lets go off his disciples. Don’t let this bit create any doubts about sant mat.”
You don’t even understand what he is saying.
Just like most of the audience at his satsangs.
He is saying:
1. There is only the ONE – so NOBODY can come to COLLECT anyone.
2. There is NOWHERE to take the soul to even if he did come
3. These are all concepts – go beyond them.
4. You already ARE the ONE because only the ONENESS exists, but you are deluded
because you feel you are separate (because you have a body and a mind)
His often repeated verse: Paltu – there is only the ONE – there is no other.
Unless you at least understand oneness – your question will remain no matter what he or anyone says.
you are seeking a duality fairy tale – it doesnt exist.
there IS and never has been a SEPARATE YOU.
in 100 years from today – there will be no YOU
What you think is YOU is nothing more than a passing phase – a wave in the ocean.
You don’t have a soul that need to be saved. there is only the oversoul. no separate souls that need to unite with the oversoul.
there is only the ocean – the waves are a passing phase and not real – they have no existence separate from the ocean”
Wow, you wrote this as if you know it to be factual and real. How is that? Your analysis is clearly better than everyone else’s. If GSD meant that, why didn’t he just come and say it? Oh, I see, it was only meant for egomaniacs like you to interpret because the teachings are now obviously meant for people to read between the lines. We ignorant folk will just have to take your interpretation of it. Thanks for your seva, ramble on dude… Never heard of the term oversoul, you made that up right?

Osho Robbins is officially triggered lol.
“And atheist says: I AM NOT SURE – I DON’T KNOW.
He is not DENYING GOD – just saying he has no proof.”
Not really. Most atheists say they deny god outright because there is no evidence of the existence of a deity in their opinion.
And now you’re copying my “I don’t know stance”, saying it’s honest, and also saying it’s your own opinion, even as you’ve spent the past 3 days screaming that in fact you DO know. You KNOW that there must only be the ONE.
What a mess you have in your brain. You know nothing. Least of all how sad you look being so defensive about getting caught being hyper religious but calling it otherwise.

Jesse
You have no idea of the definition of an atheist. Go check it out.
The standard atheist position is this:
“I don’t see any compelling evidence that convinced me that a God exists”
Just in case it still doesn’t register, the atheist doesn’t take the opposite view and claim there is no God.
The atheist makes no claim at all so has nothing to prove.

Daljit,
What’s the point you making? Apart from acknowledging there is merit in what FC says there is nothing more to add. And no point pursuing this any further if you think FC is the final authority on modern day gurus. but wonder how he can even judge others? Even God doesn’t judge. Maybe FC is above God. Is he huh?
No such thing at RSSB atleast.
Like I mentioned in my previous post, if RSSB is meant to end during GSD tenure, it will and there will be a cause for it. Maybe GSD is just executing the Almighty’s will. Nobody knows as yet.
Chandian effect – certainly aware. Makes interesting side reading. What’s the basis of Chandian effect is just the tip of what the mind and Kal can project to mislead a disciple.
RSSB disciples are aware of this. Just cements the need of a Master to guide and protect the soul on it’s inward journey home from all this crap Kal and mind throws at the soul.

Seriously Jesse, are you that dim?
I haven’t changed my position to “I don’t know”
If you misunderstand that easily, it explains why you are so confused.
If you read what I wrote, I was talking about the position of the atheist.
I wasn’t talking about my position.
Go read the sentence again before you jump to incorrect conclusions.
Your “I don’t know “ is far from honest. Read it again, I was saying the atheist is being honest in saying he doesn’t know.
You are making ridiculous statements like “we are all liars”

Amar writes;
“ If GSD meant that, why didn’t he just come and say it? Oh, I see, it was only meant for egomaniacs like you to interpret because the teachings are now obviously meant for people to read between the lines.”
If you ask a question, have the intelligence to wait for the answer, rather than make up more bullshit.
So here’s the answer:
And this is a fact, not an opinion.
He HAS SAID all those things. How do I KNOW?
I know because I was there and I was the person asking the question and he answered clearly and in uncertain terms and it’s all documented on posts on churchless.
So you stick to your opinions and lies.
You have nothing of any substance to contribute.

I mentioned the audio of Maskeen above but forgot to include the link
Here it is
https://youtu.be/jgGLTL9nh6I

Osho, you said this was his response: “His reply:
“It’s true there is only the ONE but that is not our experience. So we need to meditate to experience the merging into the ONE then we will truly understand. Otherwise it’s jyst intellectual knowledge. From knowledge we experience and that leads to understanding.”
Where do you get all that crap you wrote above from that answer? Your take away from that exchange was that yes, he still wants you to meditate.
You’re enamored with the word “ONE”. It’s just a word right? I can call it whatever I want also I think I’ll call “Solo”. So what is your point? GSD agrees with you? Must have made your day. Ego pump. So in your musings all over this blog, you mean to say that you don’t need to meditate, “You” doesn’t exist. So what? What are you proposing to do? Nothing? All that verbiage to argue that you shouldn’t do anything. Thank you. Made my day. I’d love to hear what you actually think one, as individual, should actually do? According to what you’ve written, there’s nothing to search for, there is no you. Let’s all sit around doing nothing and wait for….But hold on there is nothing to wait for. Guru is not coming because there is nowhere to be taken and there is no you, no soul, we are just an oversoul? Sounds like bullshit of the highest order?
Must be nice to say that when you have no proof of anything except what you glean from writings and interpret to suit your agenda. And then you bring Muskeen into it. What the hell does he have anything to do with it. The Granth Sahib is full of praise for the guru, and you constantly come back to it, but neglect the fact that the guru is not only indispensable, but necessary, according the Granth Sahib. But you hone in on the “One” idea, but throw away the rest. Convenient.
Clearly you have nothing constructive to say except I’m wrong. But you keep saying the One, the One. Maybe my “oversoul” needs some attention. You can parse my comments all you want.
I’m just an uneducated guy who visits this site because I got tired of people like you telling me what I need to do, that I’m wrong, that I need to do this, that or the other, or do nothing. I’m here exploring ideas and I’m probably wrong, just like every other putz out there, except you, because you’re always right and all knowing. I’ll reserve my comments for people who actually will consider other ideas and options.
Have fun with Jesse.

Osho,
Maybe It’s your interpretation of what he meant when replying to you – presumably during a public Q&A. Mind tricks you to interpret to your convenience
There is only the One – yes (but extremely important to understand juxtaposing the one against what). What all saints have said is that it’s only that One that matters for that one is the only truth. Everything is false, Maya, illusion etc etc.
That you are already the One – yes. But not because of your concept of oneness that exists. It’s simply because you (the soul) is part of that One, it’s ansh, and so have all the attributes of that One.
So Nobody can come and collect anyone – misplaced notion. At the risk of repeating myself all deaths in my family had a commonality – sighting of the radiant form of the master. So he comes to take them along.
There is nowhere to take the soul too –
Babaji has never negated the astral, casual and other regions the regions that the soul passes through. He gives it a pass for sure. This is a highlight of whenever he takes one of his oft repeated shabd ‘ dhun sun kar man samjhai’ by Soamiji wherein there is a para referring to you the stages the soul passes through.
Other scriptures also explicitly refer to the stages. So if you take one part of the scriptures as truth, can’t treat other bits as false.
These are all concepts – go beyond them : just another way of telling you to experience it all. Else you end up being/living with just concepts

These arseholes are very cunning people. They twist everything to feed their propaganda. Ik Onkar becomes Ik/One. Where is the Onkar part ?? If they talk about about Onkar they have to admit about Energy ?? Energy is not nothingness/One. Energy is energy in various forms like electrical energy, atomic energy,sound energy, chemical energy etc. If you talk about energy these arseholes run away like alley rats.

Amar, you are the new kid on the block.
That is not my first conversation with GSD. Far from it.
You are not aware of my previous conversations so all you have is unfounded opinions.
Whereas I was there in person and not only there, I was the person conversing with him.
Once again, all you do is make assumptions, and give out unfounded opinions based on untruths.
In previous conversations he has also said that the meditation is just to tire you out and get you to let go.
The reason this exchange was significant was that he explained his view about why the meditation was necessary.
He has said many times that the meditation is not to go to regions, or gain any merit. He says “don’t calculate”
You got tired of people like me telling you how to live and what to do?
Really?
Presumably these people came knocking on your door and wouldn’t leave?
Oh, I see, you yourself went to their satsang, and didn’t like what you heard.
Well exactly how do you interpret that as “telling me …..” ?
You went there, nobody followed you home, so that is more bullshit.
If you like RSSB, follow it. Nobody is begging you.
If you don’t like it, go home and stay home, but keep your unfounded opinions to yourself because nobody is interested in nonsense.
You turn on believers like they are not allowed an opinion. You write as if they are idiots to believe GSD. Well they are entitled to believe and it makes a lot more sense than the mad ramblings of an idiot who claims to know nothing yet thinks he is right.
Amar, you are full of yourself. But others can’t be bothered to engage with you like I did.
I just had some spare time on my hands so I decided to have some fun.

Osho, so happy you could spare some of your precious time to set me straight.
Much appreciated.

SP,
The point I am making is that you quote Radhasoami Gurus and books as authority while completely ignoring another Radhasoami Guru (Faqir Chand) and his books. Faqir Chand – known as the honest Radhasoami Guru – openly said that all current Gurus are frauds and have no power.
For that matter the “original” Agra Radhasoami Gurus do not recognize Beas gurus lineage either.
BTW the samadhi (tomb) of Soamiji at Agra is now complete. It took more than a hundred years and god knows how much money to complete.
It was claimed that it will rival or beat Taj in beauty. When I last went to Agra it was still under construction. Per Soami Bagh branch of Radhasoamis “Soami Bagh is indeed the most blessed and holiest place on earth, where the Supreme Being RADHASOAMI smiles upon all who witness His grandeur.”

Wow you guys… so much time to prove each other wrong??
Amar the so called “soggy burritos” you have been referring to in Petaluma were yummy. Had them both days. 😋

Osho…. or whatever your real name is, why don’t you actually tell us what you really think happens to “us” when we die. I believe you said meditation was not needed. Correct me if I’m wrong. So, what is it that you are really saying? You said there is no soul, there is no one to come for you because there is no where to go. So what happens?
Please enlighten us. I actually like some of the comments you made regarding the state of affairs we are currently under going. I’d like to actually see your end game on what happens.
Not being facetious here, honest question.

Amar, No problem. Anytime you get off track again and need setting straight – just let me know and I will see if I have time – only – I can’t keep doing it for free, so next time it will cost
USD 10 Trillion.
Per minute that is.

Vijay, glad you enjoyed the soggy burritos. Hope you enjoyed the programme as well. Last day was today I think.

Osho, the atheist usually doesn’t say “I don’t know.”
You’re saying that. Your average atheist would say that they know that there is no evidence,and rational or not, they’d say that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Many atheists are quite confident in their knowledge and happy to say they know there is no god.
They, like you, are WRONG. Wrong for claiming to know what they do not know. That also makes them, and you, liars. Unless telling lies does not make one a liar.
But please continue to post arithmetic to support your claim to know the origins and nature of all existence. Nobody is stopping you.

Vinny,
Cuss words help you place your point of view in some more authentic way is it? Tomorrow you call me a dog…. Makes me one is it – just because you say it? Or is it signs that you have some way to maturity?
Difficult for you to grasp the context in which Ek is used is it? Is that why you go ballistic on why onkar is not used?
The FACT is, in the times we live in – the word Ek is of far greater significance – our you rather build beliefs on ‘My Allah’, ”My God, ‘My Bhagwan’, ‘my granth sahib’ with each claim superiority over the other.
Do correct my interpretation of of your post which is as follows
So using Ek Onkar means admitting to energy. But then Ek Onkar in Sikhism represents one God. So if Ek Onkar = one God = one energy. But then there is electrical energy, light energy, sound energy, atomic energy…… So then…..??

Amar very much so

HBD GSD!!!!
Guys I encourage you all to post your wishes too.
He visits this site every day. A little bird tells me first thing in the morning – to read and educate himself of the sublime Gyan we all pour in via our posts.
🤣😂

Hi Osho Robbins,
Just want to say thanks for keeping on commenting here. I enjoy hearing about whats happening at the Dera and what Gurinder has to say especially because the world imo seems to becoming so much more chaotic and violent in many ways. Nice to know there is somewhere peaceful like the Dera where people can find some happiness and calm. Also nice to hear that Gurinder is jovial and cracking jokes. Laughing and a sense of humour can change the energy around us instead of the constant negativity in the News which makes life quite depressing.

Vijay, great to hear it. Hope you enjoyed the atmosphere.

Just want to clarify for those who feel I’ve offended them in any of my comments. It’s easy to get carried away on a blog where people don’t use their real names, can say things that can upset people for the sake of getting them all riled up, and in the process scramble your brains and offend someone.
I’ve done it. Comes thru frustration that I’m in a position now where I am at a cross roads in my personal development and not sure of the road ahead. But that’s okay, life is about experiences and finding what suits us.
So apologies for putting anyone down here.

“Wow you guys… so much time to prove each other wrong??”
Yeah bro. I have a lot of free time. I sent a couple comments from a cafe. One while I paused on a walk around a really beautiful lake with a bunch of little tributary creeks flowing into the lake, which then flow into another river etc. It’s a great water system. One comment I left while I sat in the wild garden of a local Russian Orthodox monastery enjoying the flowers, trees and little bees and bugs flying around. The scent there is how I imagine places like heaven would smell.
If I hadn’t pulled all my money out of the markets in 2016 LIKE A SCARED IDIOT I’d have even more free time to just chill and dismiss the entire concept of oneness/god with people I don’t know because I’d be a baller. But I can’t go back in time. So sad. So many missed opportunities for money grabbing in my life. Now I’m just a poor boy.
Jai Maa Laxmi. The ONE true Goddess.

Jesse:

Osho, the atheist usually doesn’t say “I don’t know.”
You’re saying that. Your average atheist would say that they know that there is no evidence,and rational or not, they’d say that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Many atheists are quite confident in their knowledge and happy to say they know there is no god.
They, like you, are WRONG. Wrong for claiming to know what they do not know. That also makes them, and you, liars. Unless telling lies does not make one a liar.

Jesse, you are wrong. But hey that’s nothing new – you keep on saying that you are wrong
but you also say everyone else is wrong and a liar – but you are wrong there too.
so watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWqVzwvL5zQ
Matt Dillahunty – is an atheist and he explains at 2 mins into the video exactly what an atheist is. The caller says that atheists are LIARS. Matts says they CANNOT be liars because they are NOT making a claim that there is no god.
The theist says : I BELIEVE there is a God
The atheist says: I can’t see any reason to believe in a God. That does NOT translate into “therefore I believe there is no God”
the easiest example is a court room. The jury or judge does not make a judgement on
INNOCENT / GUILTY.
They seek evidence for GUILTY. If they have sufficient they say GUILTY.
If they don’t have enough evidence they return a NOT GUILTY verdict
This is NOT the same as an INNOCENT verdict.
Courts do not deal with the matter of INNOCENCE.
NOT GUILTY does not mean INNOCENT – it just means not guilty.
Theist says: I BELIEVE that God Exists.
Athiest: I don’t believe that a God Exists – NOT THE SAME as saying: I believe there IS NO GOD.
The atheist says “There MIGHT be, but until I see a reason to believe – I just don’t believe.
The atheist is NOT MAKING A CLAIM – so has nothing to prove.
He is not saying “THERE IS NO GOD”
Jesse, you seem to think that he is saying “THERE IS NO GOD”
That is not the atheist position. The reason I was saying it is HONEST is because the atheist says
“I care if what I believe is the truth. I therefore won’t believe until I see good evidence”
so your statement that “they’d say that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. ”
is incorrect.
you then say “Many atheists are quite happy to say they know there is no god.”
once again – that is incorrect – that simply is NOT the atheist position.
There is a special category called the “STRONG ATHEIST” – that is an atheist who goes one step further and says there is no God – but that is NOT the standard atheist position.
The standard atheist says “I make no claims” – therefore it cannot be a lie.
Not sure why you don’t get something this simple.
And if you fail to understand this – and it is VERY simple – then that explains why you don’t understand the dialogue we have had about the ONE – that takes a much greater ability to comprehend that this does – and you are failing utterly on this and still insisting you are right.
Watch the video and then you might understand

Amar:
Osho…. or whatever your real name is, why don’t you actually tell us what you really think happens to “us” when we die. I believe you said meditation was not needed. Correct me if I’m wrong. So, what is it that you are really saying? You said there is no soul, there is no one to come for you because there is no where to go. So what happens?
Please enlighten us. I actually like some of the comments you made regarding the state of affairs we are currently under going. I’d like to actually see your end game on what happens.
Not being facetious here, honest question.
Amar – forget what I say – you wont relate to it anyway. Instead read the ashtavakra gita – the detailed conversation between Janak and Ashtavakra.
I’ll give you are few quotes here from it.
1.6 Right and wrong, pleasure and pain, exist in mind only. They are not your concern. You neither do nor enjoy. You are free.
1.8 The thought: “I am the doer” is the bite of a poisonous snake. To know: “I do nothing” is the wisdom of faith.
1.11 It is true what they say: “You are what you think.” If you think you are bound you are bound. If you think you are free you are free.
1.13 Meditate on this: “I am Awareness alone–Unity itself.” Give up the idea that you are separate, a person, that there is within and without. 1.14 You have long been bound thinking: “I am a person.” Let the knowledge: “I am Awareness alone” be the sword that frees you.
1.15 You are now and forever free, luminous, transparent, still. The practice of meditation keeps one in bondage.
Before I go on further: notice he just said “Meditate on this:…..”
then in the next breath says “The practice of meditation keeps one in bondage”
This is where the surface reader gives up because he is seeking a black and white answer.
But truth requires you to study and understand deeply – not dismiss the moment you don’t understand.
The first reference to meditate means: contemplate and think about. This is the process that is needed for all wisdom.
The second meditation is the “parrot fashion reciting without any meaning”
That is what Sikhs do when they do Japji reciting. Pointless.
It is also what RSSB followers do – repeat five words. Pointless.
I am not saying you cant get an experience from these – you most certainly can
But the wise man seeks to understand – not experience. He seeks to be the witness. To become aware that he is the witness to all that happens – he is not the doer.
Now read this one:

1.18 That which has form is not real. Only the formless is permanent. Once this is known, you will not return to illusion.

That is the answer to all your questions – direct from Ashtavakra.
Of course he goes much deeper: and you can read it all here
https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Ashtavakra-Gita-ebook.pdf

Amar:
Osho…. or whatever your real name is, why don’t you actually tell us what you really think happens to “us” when we die.
Osho: My real name? Oh I must have forgotten to mention it: It’s: THE ONE.
What happens? Nothing. YOU don’t die. Why not?
Because YOU were never born.
What is this YOU that you keep referring to? There is no separate YOU – but it appears to be so. YOU created it – it is called HAUMI – the idea of a ME.
Gurbani is saying remove this and only ONE remains.
“jab hum hoti – tab tu nahin” – Kabir
When there was a ME (HAUMI) – I could not find you (God). – Kabir
Of course not because the ME is the barrier. ME creates duality and you cannot find the ONE in duality.
So now Kabir says
“Ab TUM ho – hum nahin”
Now only YOU (the ONENESS) IS and I AM NOT.
The “I AM NOT” is significant. Because it means you will not MEET or EXPERIENCE the ONE!
If you do – know you are deluded – because you are in duality.
No experience can lead to ONENESS – so seeking experience is a delusion.
When the disciples understands this – he cannot SEEK or desire anymore
He cannot go to the MIC and ask babaji for anything.
Not because he has supressed his desires – but because he understands
Amar: I believe you said meditation was not needed. Correct me if I’m wrong. So, what is it that you are really saying? You said there is no soul, there is no one to come for you because there is no where to go. So what happens?
Osho: what is needed is to understand the nature of the ONE.
The ONE is not an opinion. It’s not a concept. It’s not a theory.
It is something that is KNOWN. Once KNOWN – its absolute. The end of all seeking.
There is noting more to seek.
There is no SEPARATE SOUL. Hence you don’t need saving because there is no YOU to save.
The FAKE you (HAUMI) the one you call “ME” doesn’t need saving
In fact it CANNOT be saved – it is DOOMED – as it everything within time/space.
Everything that you SEE and EXPERIENCE is DOOMED. It will end. You cannot SAVE the UNREAL – why – because it’s not real. You cannot save the wave.
The wave is doomed. You can watch it for a while – but you cannot save it.
So the UNREAL cannot be saved and everything you know is the UNREAL.
The REAL (which is the ONE) doesn’t need saving. It’s already saved.
The REAL cannot DIE and the UNREAL has to DIE.
So – now for what to do: the only thing that has to be done:
IDENTIFY WITH (recognize) the ONE (REAL) and drop the UNREAL.
That is the meaning of SELF-REALIZATION.
There is no SELF – there is only the ONE SELF.
That one self is not the YOU and you think you are.
It is the ONE.
This is what Ashtavakra says:
This is JANAK speaking – once the REALIZATION appears ( not even deep yet)
This is just the first glimpse.
In Reality, knowledge, the knower, and the knowable do not exist. I am the transparent Self in which through ignorance they appear. 2.16 Looking at One and seeing many is the cause of all misery. The only cure is to realize what is seen is not there. I am One—aware, blissful, immaculate. 2.17 I am unbounded Awareness. Only in imagination do I have limits. Reflecting on this, I abide in the Absolute. 2.18 I am neither free nor bound. The illusion of such things has fallen into disbelief. Though I contain creation, it has no substance. 2.19 Having seen for certain that this universe and body is without form or substance, I am revealed as Awareness alone. Imagination has no place here.

Amar,
Ashtavakra now explains:
5.4
You are perfect, changeless,
through misery and happiness,
hope and despair,
life and death.
This is the state of dissolution.
Janaka said:
6.1
I am infinite space;
the universe is a jar.
This I know.
No need to renounce, accept or destroy.
12.6
Doing and not-doing
both arise from ignorance.
I know this.
And I am here.
Now having realized the truth Janak says
The body is strained by practices.
The tongue tires of scripture.
The mind numbs with meditation.
Detached from all this,
I live as I am.
13.3
Realizing that nothing is done,
I do what comes
and am happy.
13.4
Yogis who preach
either effort or non-effort
are still attached to the body.
I neither dissociate nor associate
with any of that
and am happy.
13.5
I have nothing to gain or lose
by standing, walking or sitting down.
So whether I stand, walk or sit
I am happy.
13.6
I do not lose by sleeping
nor attain by effort.
Not thinking in terms of loss or gain
I am happy.
This is no longer janak’s OPINION.
it is the realization of the truth.
he can speak or not speak
do or not do
nothing matters anymore
because the “I” has gone from the ROOT.

Amar,
Ashtavakra now describes the state of the WISE man.
18.28
Beyond stillness,
beyond distraction,
the great soul thinks nothing
of liberation or bondage.
Having seen the universe is void–
even though it seems to exist–
he is God.
18.29
He who believes he is a person
is constantly acting,
even when the body is at rest.
The sage knows he is not a person,
and therefore does nothing,
even when the body is in motion.
18.30
The mind of the liberated one
is neither troubled nor pleased.
It is actionless, motionless, desireless
and free of doubt.

18.31
The liberated one
does not exert effort
to meditate or act.
Action and meditation just happen.

18.32
Hearing ultimate Truth,
the dull-witted man is bewildered.
The wise man hearing Truth
retreats within and appears
dull-witted.

18.33
The ignorant practice
meditation and no-thought.
The wise,
like men in deep sleep,
do nothing.

18.34
The ignorant man finds no peace
either by effort or non-effort.
The wise man
by Truth alone is stilled.

Thanks Osho, that’s more like it. Appreciate the effort in putting this down.
So this last line is interesting:
1.18 That which has form is not real. Only the formless is permanent. Once this is known, you will not return to illusion.
I think the disparity/confusion comes from the phrase “you will not return to the illusion.” Implying that there is something to “go back to”. Not necessarily a region or place, but to a consciousness, whatever that is, but that doesn’t sound accurate either.

Amar,
The meaning of “you need a guru” is very different from what most people perceive it to be.
It means to seek out someone who has realised, and If you become receptive then in his company, you too will realise. He is not a teacher. He has no information to convey to you.
It’s not about like what RSSB satsangs are. There are no rules and moral codes and “how to be a good person”
Ashtavakra has already cut that fro the roots. There is no good or bad. It doesn’t exist.
When you understand and it registers then you know, otherwise all you have is an opinion.
Realisation means to awaken to the truth. You are not dependent on what scriptures tell you. You don’t need scriptures to fit in. They simply confirm your truth if understood correctly.
The wise man speaks from his wisdom, and you (the seeker) jump on that wisdom and reduces it to knowledge.
Knowledge is dead, a ready made conclusion. It cannot awaken you.
The guru gets you to question and realise for yourself.
I went to someone beck in the year 2000. At the time I was a RSSB follower. He used to be also, until he woke up.
He told me things that shocked me.
At first I just thought he is giving me some opinions and ideas. I later realised he doesn’t deal in theories or opinions.
Truth comes when you drop the false ideas you have collected from others.
Some examples:
1. You need to overcome your karma
2. You need to meditate or do simran or recite or prayer etc
3. You need to obey a guru
4. You need to worship a guru.
5. You need to do something to escape the trap of birth and death
All these are incorrect.
But your mission is not to collect a new theory like
“ I don’t need to do anything now”
That too is delusion.
You have to go beyond both – doing and
Not doing. Neither will free you. Both are traps. It has nothing to do with doing or not doing. Doing implies the doer and there is none. If there is, then you have missed once again.

The realised person can act in any way. It is irrelevant. He does care if you believe or not, as it’s not a matter of belief. If you believe him, then you miss once again. Belief or respect or worship is not required. Just a desire to truly know.
Janak was a true seeker. That’s what makes the ashtavakra Gita so rich.
It’s pure truth, without the padding.
It covers only the one topic

“This is no longer janak’s OPINION.
it is the realization of the truth.”
I just “realized” that you’re a dry hamburger bun. Mystical experience of the truth. So I’m sorry who gets offended, but it’s the absolute truth. I REALIZED it.

“1.18 That which has form is not real. Only the formless is permanent. Once this is known, you will not return to illusion.”
I disagree with this because everything has form. Your retarded metaphor about waves on the ocean means the ocean itself has an ever changing form. That’s what the waves are. There is no ONE. Theres only stupidity and death.
Your entire life experience is one of appeals to authority just like another guy who posts here. You believe without question whatever has remained popular over time. I’m sensing another pattern…
Why does the whatever it’s called gita have any value? It’s an old book. There are many old books. You might as well be a Bible thumper.

Matt Dillahaunty is a dork, not an atheist.
Get your facts straight Osho.
And using CAPITAL letters so FREQUENTLY isn’t HELPING you to MAKE A POINT. it looks SPASTIC and gives the IMPRESSION that you’re MENTALLY ILL and screaming like a SCHIZOPHRENIC on the STREET corner. I don’t READ THOSE COMMENTS because I AM AFRAID of METH SHAMANS telling me about ASTRAL PROJECTION.
Dude. My experience with atheists has been that they claim there is evidence against god. Not that they humbly don’t know and await evidence. Just my personal experience. Maybe this one authoritative figure with a webcam says otherwise. I guess he is the leader of the atheists after all since he bought the web cam.
You gotta chill man. You take yourself and all these amazingly useless ideas so seriously. It’s gonna make you go crazy. You can’t prove or convince anyone to latch onto the theories you read in a book and have preference for. Leave it at that and relax.
Literally only you are getting upset about this. Oneness is a dumb idea that should be forgotten like the god of the old testament.
Let’s just agree to agree on this self evident truth. ONE is a primitive idea.

Sorry, Osho.
By the dictionary atheists believe there is no God. Those who aren’t sure are called agnostics.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

Cool, appreciate the explanation Osho. I’ll dig a bit deeper into it since it’s a different slant on what I thought it was. Worth investigating to add to my knowledge. I’m not willing to discount anything since it adds to our general understanding.
It’s easy to discount someone’s perspective when the person providing the info rubs you the wrong way. Could all be bullshit, could have substance to it, could be thought provoking. I’ll dive a bit deeper into it and gain some perspective.

Amar:
I think the disparity/confusion comes from the phrase “you will not return to the illusion.” Implying that there is something to “go back to”. Not necessarily a region or place, but to a consciousness, whatever that is, but that doesn’t sound accurate either.
OshoR: The language gets in the way because words still have to be used, but the message has to be understood without getting stuck in the words.
firstly the “YOU” is not the you that you experience.
in 1.17 he says “You are unconditioned, changeless, formless.”
clearly the body isn’t so he is referring to YOU as the ONE
stating that is you REAL NATURE.
“Once this is known” means – once you realise for yourself – not once it is heard.
Hearing alone is not enough – it is the first step.
“You will not return to the illusion” means the illusion is shattered instantly
it was just an illusion – not real – so there is no question of returning
there is nobody and never was anybody that could return.
a bit like waking up from a dream. The dream is over and there were no dream characters
the dream characters were part of the dream – part of the illusion.
so the real meaning is: once you REALISE – this “you” will no longer be in the illusiion – the realization will be that it was unreal.
it will still carry on – but no longer perceived as real.
zen saying: “before enlightenment I used to go to the forest to chop wood.
After enlightenment I go to the forest to chop wood”
The outer actions remain the same – the inner state is different.
Now chopping wood is not work or a chore or even necessary and there is no doer
no motivation. It is now actionless action – you can cop or not – both are the same.
It’s like life continues – but you are not there anymore.
That’s what nanak refers to as Hukam – all is in hukam – nothing is relevant to me anymore
things happen – but not to a ME – the ME is now just a witness
but also this does not mean trying to detached. No trying.
the moment you try – you are trapped once again – you are inauthentic
you are making an effort – what for? the reason has gone.
The reason before was YOU – now that YOU has gone – so has the reason to act
now nothing matters in the deepest sense.
doing continues – but no doer
you cannot take the credit – or the blame – both disappear together.
actions happens spontaneously – not calculated. not with a motive.

Anami,
the dictionary definition is the SAME as what I stated
dictionary: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods
a person who DOES NOT BELIEVE that God exists.
not the same as: HE BELIEVES THERE IS NO GOD.
they are tow different statements.
like the jury acquits a person – it DOESN’T mean the person is INNOCENT – just NOT GUILTY
to put it another way:
Theist: I BELIEVE there is a God!
Atheist: I don’t accept your position, therefore I DON’T BELIEVE
I am not saying THERE IS NO GOD – I am not even saying
I BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD
I am saying: I dont have the belief in a god. There MIGHT be a God, or might NOT be. I am not saying anything that needs me to prove.
The video I posted at the time going into great detail

Anytime we attach words to describe this, it loses it’s authenticity.
Deep stuff. Will take time to get my head wrapped around it.

@Jesse
what makes you think I am getting upset.
typing on here is just entertainment – same as when I go to the mic at Haynes
It matters to me not one iota if anyone agrees, or not – not my business
You don’t like CAPITALS – I DO!
I use them to emphasize a cetain word.
You perceive it as SHOUTING – your perception.
Explains why you think I am upset.
you wrote:
Dude. My experience with atheists has been that they claim there is evidence against god
you’re wrong – that is not the atheist position.
It’s a subtle point – but it takes most people a while before they understand.
I used to think the same – that an atheist is saying “There is NO GOD”
however that is NOT the atheist position.
there is a sub-category called the “STRONG ATHIEST” – he is an atheist who goes further and makes a claim.
His position is; I don’t believe there is a God (the atheist posiition) and ALSO I go one step further and I BELIEVE THERE IS NO GOD. He now has the burden of proof because he is making a claim. The atheist makes NO CLAIM. only disbelieves the theist

@Jesse
“1.18 That which has form is not real. Only the formless is permanent. Once this is known, you will not return to illusion.”
I disagree with this because everything has form.
Osho: So what if you disagree? disagree to your hearts content.
Everything has a form – yes – except the formless – that’s why its been labelled the formless.
and no – it’s not a thing and you cant see it.
I am not interested in your agreement or disagreement.
the former does not make me happy and the latter does not upset me
It’s your choice – agree or disagree – both are just your opinions
Ashtavakra is not writing for you – you can carry on disagreeing
he is writing for Janak – who DOES care – who is interested in truth
not in opinions
not in agreeing or disagreeing – both will not make any difference

Awesome posts Osho !!!
Sant Maskeen’s video was a treat.

Osho, I make fun of Manjit sometimes and say he’s not smart. But he’s actually well read, and intelligent. Most of what I say to him is just to instigate.
You on the other hand truly are dim witted. You’re also a legit spazz who takes himself way too seriously. I went way harder on Manjit and he never got so emotional.
There is no rational basis for the necessity of oneness. It’s just an idea. Stop being such a try hard who needs others to believe you. I went through this with Jesus freaks, Satsangis, Sikhs and others already. Your religious beliefs are the piles of shit that Manjit’s mystic gurus throw at passer by.

Osho–
If the atheist says, “I don’t have the belief in a god. There MIGHT be a God, or might NOT be,” then what does the agnostic say? What you’re calling atheist actually fits the definition of agnostic.
Atheist is a “no god”-ist
Agnostic is a “no knowlege”-ic
I think one who says, “I don’t accept the position of the theist,” would have to be called an anti-theist.

This video will clear up the confusion a few have about Atheism
A Theist believes in a God.
An A-Theist is the opposite : he does not believe
So an atheist does not have any belief about a God : He LACKS belief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QklGBkXeXg
So once again Jesse,
your comments are WRONG
and why do you call Matt Dillahunty a dork?
It’s fine if that is your OPINION. But then you state it’s a fact.
clearly you can’t distinguish between facts and opinions

This Quote by Jesse shows he really has no idea – but claims to know
“Dude. My experience with atheists has been that they claim there is evidence against god. Not that they humbly don’t know and await evidence. Just my personal experience. Maybe this one authoritative figure with a webcam says otherwise. I guess he is the leader of the atheists after all since he bought the web cam.”
That statement is complete bullshit – FACT – not an opinion.
Firstly – the question of what atheism means is unrelated to personal evidence. It’s a definition. What has that got to do with personal evidence.
The video I post below shows clearly what the definition of an atheist is.
It’s not what Jesse says.
Jesse – if you can prove or show that the meaning of Atheist is not what I have stated, please share, otherwise concede you are writing nonsensical comments.
Jesse, you state that maybe this one person (Matt Dillahunty) has corrupted the definition – well then I propose you present just one of the hundreds of others on youtube that have the correct definition. There must be at least one – unless of course – Jesse has it wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QklGBkXeXg
Jesse, just as you clearly have this all wrong – so you also have lots of other things wrong.
You even come out with nonsense like “Everyone is wrong” when in fact
Jesse is wrong – not everyone.
I only clarified what an atheist is – immediately Jesse jumps to conclusions like
“Ah ha – so now you say you Don’t Know – caught you out…. etc etc….”
What Jesse did not even realise what I was writing about an Atheist – as was clear from the sentence.
Before you write bullshit, Jesse, check out your facts.
There is just one thing you are good at – name-calling.
name-calling is not an argument – it’s just nonsense.

@Anami
you wrote
“Osho–
If the atheist says, “I don’t have the belief in a god. There MIGHT be a God, or might NOT be,” then what does the agnostic say? What you’re calling atheist actually fits the definition of agnostic.
Atheist is a “no god”-ist
Agnostic is a “no knowlege”-ic
I think one who says, “I don’t accept the position of the theist,” would have to be called an anti-theist.”
Anami, The “A” in Atheist means “NOT” – NOT Theist
The topic of KNOWING is separate from belief.
check out this video that I just came across – makes it very clear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QklGBkXeXg
I have had this discussion many times on churchless – so has Brian.
most people discuss it intelligently like you and I are here
others like Jesse just like to name-call as part of the process. Which gets nowhere.

“My experience with atheists”
Read that sentence 1000 times, Osho. Read it slowly. Look at those two words- MY EXPERIENCE.
I’m not the official voice of atheism, and neither are you or Dillahaunty. Just telling you what atheists I personally have known thought and said.
You have issues, man. Like serious issues with being the sadness incarnate that takes things way too seriously and personally. I’m sorry you religiously believe in everything you have a liking for. But it’s not my problem.

“There is just one thing you are good at – name-calling.”
Yeah. Because in life we have to deal with people like you. I developed a useful talent into a life improving skill.
I’m still waiting for any evidence whatsoever to back up your religious beliefs that you tell me must be true. “Mystic said” is not evidence by the way.
When you provide evidence or a personal argument, not words of other mystics, or your bizarre arithmetic screed, I’ll read your spastic comments again.
Until then. Be a spazz with others. And when I call you a spazz, understand that I’m a huge internet spazz. I’m very self aware of it. When I am noticing it in others, it means it’s horrendous. You got issues, bruh.

Dear Osho,
Well, I browsed the video for your sake, and we could go on and on and on, but I guess we have to respect Brian’s wish not to use CoC as a discussion forum and put the debate aside.

Anami, I am not sure what you disagree with but the video is very clear on the meaning of atheist.
An atheist doesn’t believe in a god;
Which is not the same as saying
Believes there is no god.
Or do you think those two are the same?

Hey, Osho.
Here are dictionary definitions of atheist…
Merriam-Webster:
“a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods : one who subscribes to or advocates atheism”
Oxford English:
“​the belief that God does not exist”
To me both definitions equate to “a belief that there is no God.”
However, I think we’re both right here! I hold the “old” definition and you hold the “new” definition. The link below spells it out the distinction and confirms your definition, “doesn’t believe in God” (lacks belief).
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/
How’s that? Thankfully we don’t have to settle this in single combat at Haynes Park!

Hi Anami
https://infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/sn-definitions.html
The Oxford dictionary gives both definitions; the standard weak atheist and the strong atheist.
The weak is the default. The strong is a subcategory.
By the way,
A person who does not believe in the existence of god
Is not the same as
The person who says there is no god.
If I have a jar full of gumballs; and I say
“I believe there are exactly 100 gumballs”
And you say “I don’t believe you”
All you are doing is disbelieving my claim. You are not making a claim of your own. If I say, “in that case, do you believe there are 99?”
Your answer would be NO.
In the same way the theist makes a claim.
“I believe that a God or Gods Exist”
That is a claim and anyone can ask “why do you believe? What is your evidence?”
And even, “if you give me sufficient evidence, I may also believe”
The atheist says “I don’t believe YOUR CLAIM.” Meaning “I don’t believe a god exists”
Many people think this means “I believe that god does NOT exist”
It’s not the same. The latter is a claim. The former is not a claim.
Have you ever seen Bigfoot?
Many believe there is such a creature called Bigfoot.
If I say “I believe in Bigfoot”
You might say “well I don’t”
Can I now say to you,
“Well Anami, sir, prove to me that Bigfoot does not exist. Show me the evidence”
I cannot ask you to prove it, because you are not stating “There is no Bigfoot”
Your position is “There might be a Bigfoot, I can’t say, but I would like to know why you believe, because don’t hold that belief”
If we still can’t agree – the it’ll have to be a showdown at Haynes. Sunday after satsang, on stage with babaji as the referee. Winner gets the gaddi. Loser get a mars bar. Jesse gets a ladoo.
Deal?
Anyway, we’ll cap it off here. Nice having a friendly mature debate with you with no name calling be either of us.
C u Sunday

I find it amusing and frustrating at the same time that we love to have labels for everything: atheist, agnostic, believer, non believer, Republican, Democrat.
I can have beliefs that align with both Rep and Dem’s. This is how we get lost in splitting hairs or defining what one is versus the other. We are complex beings and we constantly try to compartmentalize, categorize and allocate things into buckets.
Just thought I’d throw it out there as my own 2 cents.

Osho, choose your weapon, peacock feather or ping pong ball! I’d meet you, but it would mean getting off the sofa and crossing the Atlantic. More definitions:
Beytheist: worships Beyonce
Daytheist: angel by day, devil by night
Gaytheist: happy atheist; closeted theist
Heytheist: makes a show of religion
Laytheist: takes the practice of tantra too literally
Naytheist: Republican
Neightheist: likes horses
Saytheist: Democrat
Wheytheist: lacto-vegetarian

Needless to say, there are hard/soft, strong/weak and gnostic/agnostic versions of above.

Daljit said;
The point I am making is that you quote Radhasoami Gurus and books as authority while completely ignoring another Radhasoami Guru (Faqir Chand) and his books. Faqir Chand – known as the honest Radhasoami Guru – openly said that all current Gurus are frauds and have no power.
For that matter the “original” Agra Radhasoami Gurus do not recognize Beas gurus lineage either.
BTW the samadhi (tomb) of Soamiji at Agra is now complete. It took more than a hundred years and god knows how much money to complete.
It was claimed that it will rival or beat Taj in beauty. When I last went to Agra it was still under construction. Per Soami Bagh branch of Radhasoamis “Soami Bagh is indeed the most blessed and holiest place on earth, where the Supreme Being RADHASOAMI smiles upon all who witness His grandeur.”
Lots of the gurus in India are known to be honest and gracious to even accept even conflicting views/interpretation. That’s a good sign.
Hey Daljit,
FC critical/judgemental of most gurus (it’s not all and modern days. It’s most and covered even past gurus) reflects more on him. This comment more out of his frustration at not experiencing the absolute truth? Result of an imperfect master??
Likewise to FC there are numerous other Gurus who are regarded as honest. FC isn’t by any means Numero Uno and definitely not in any sort of a position to pass a judgement.
‘Original’ Agra RS gurus – honestly is an absurd notion. Nobody owns spirituality. Not recognizing Beas – do you really think it bothers RSSB? Wonder why they invited GSD to give discourses.
The tomb is complete after years and years (and there is a story I believe behind this long time). Won’t be surprised it turns into a tourist centre in time to come. Already is on tourists things to do in Agra lol. Have seen it. Went as am part of the family of Dera delegates who were invited for the opening.
I might sound rude, but it’s shameful that the Agra lineage propagates that ” Soami Bagh is indeed the most blessed and holiest place on earth, where the Supreme Being RADHASOAMI smiles upon all who witness His grandeur.”
Sad but true but this is light years aways from the “original” teachings of Soamiji. What does this make their lineage? Original RS gurus huh? Grow up.
How many in here heard of Dada J P Vaswani the last Guru of Sadhu Vaswani Mission – honest/non controversial modern guru. No successor announced. Anybody knows why?

“How many in here heard of Dada J P Vaswani the last Guru of Sadhu Vaswani Mission – honest/non controversial modern guru. No successor announced. Anybody knows why?”
Nobody cares why.

“How many in here heard of Dada J P Vaswani the last Guru of Sadhu Vaswani Mission – honest/non controversial modern guru. No successor announced. Anybody knows why?”
There were rumors in Vaswani Mission and in RSSB as well much before the death of Dada Vaswani that he wanted GSD to take care of the Misssion and GSD gave him a word not to worry and he’ll take care of the Mission when time comes, but not now.
Even after the death of Dada messages among the followers of RSSB and Dada Vaswani mission were circulated that GSD is the next patron (Chief) of Dada Vaswani Mission. After few months there has been silence from both the organizations.
I guess the deal would have been blocked by some Barons of the Vaswani Mission.

Hi Juan. I didn’t realize there was anything going on with the Vaswani group. The only mention I see is when GSD went to his funeral. That’s about it.
The way things happen in India, I imagine there would be a huge uproar in the Vaswani camp if that were true. Vaswani would have written something in a will if that were the case, assuming he had one made.

Amar, I understand Dada’s wish was well known amongst his followers
No news of any rumblings too.
But it wasn’t more about the mission. His request to GSD was he must take care of his followers.
Am sure Dada would have gone to FC instead if he were alive. After all most modern day gurus are frauds right except of course the one who made the statement.