Today a friend gave me a book that he thought I'd like. He was right. We've known each other for a long time, so after he'd listened to the audio version of Scott Carney's The Enlightenment Trap: Obsession, Madness and Death on Diamond Mountain, he correctly surmised that I'd find it interesting.
I'm only up to page 32, but Carney's introductory "A Note for a New Edition" contains some strong hints of what the book's central themes are.
Rather than thinking of this as a true-crime story that follows the downward spiral of a cultic community, this book is the tale of how the West has co-opted and altered Eastern spirituality to suit its own desires and imagination.
…While meditative and yogic practices can powerfully alter the way our minds work, the way that many of us internalize the idea of "enlightenment" casts it as a state to achieve, rather than a never-ending journey of self-improvement.
Thus, as we grasp for eternal bliss, nirvana, and sometimes even superpowers in the name of enlightenment, our spiritual practices can instead trap us in a world of delusion.
…The key to avoiding the trap posed by enlightenment is finding balance between the body, mind, and spirit, and not placing too much emphasis on just one part of the equation. I know that my own journey will never find an end. I hope that yours does not, either.
Then, in the first chapter, "Enlightening America," Carney aptly describes how enlightenment is viewed by Eastern religions and practices that don't avoid the trap of viewing enlightenment as a state to achieve.
As if transformed by the grace of God, suddenly the enlightenee realizes the true nature of reality, and the knowledge plants the person forever on a new plane of understanding. The mundane world is an illusion.
After the first realization, various traditions teach, the enlightenment seeker progresses through a series of different eye-opening experiences until they reach the ultimate final state — call it Buddhahood, or nirvana, Moksha, or some other type of transcendence.
Whatever it is, enlightenment is also an experience. It is a sort of knowledge that is deeply personal and resists any sort of outside verification. That such a transformation is even possible requires a leap of faith. It resists scientific scrutiny and undercuts the very notion of a material world.
If we assume that it exists, then the actual state of enlightenment poses an interesting problem. What are people supposed to do with the rest of their time on earth once they've gained the ultimate knowledge of the nature of reality?
Revered gurus who teach that status and power are meaningless in the ultimate reality nonetheless still have to muck about in the mundane world. They gather followers, build institutions, and dispense knowledge from lofty thrones.
Is it hypocrisy when enlightenment simply reproduces familiar hierarchies? How does a Buddha remain in the world but not of it?
Since Carney said early on in his book that the non-deluded way to view enlightenment is as a never-ending journey of self-improvement, rather than a state to achieve, it seems clear that anyone who claims ultimate knowledge of the nature of reality has a mistaken notion of enlightenment.
Yet Carney correctly observes that this mistaken notion is a guiding principle for many Eastern practices centered on a supposedly enlightened guru or teacher. I have first-hand knowledge of this, having been a member for 35 years of a religious organization led by a guru with headquarters in India, Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB).
A core component of the RSSB teachings is that the organization's guru is a fully enlightened being who is to be considered God in Human Form. This exalted state requires a leap of faith, as Carney notes in the preceding quotation from his book.
For the only way a person (always a man, by the way) can become the RSSB guru and thus worshipped as God in Human Form is to be appointed to this position by the preceding guru — prior to the guru's death, obviously. So there's no distinguishing characteristics that mark the RSSB guru as enlightened.
The guru can do anything after being appointed: lie, cheat, steal. No matter.
Because he is viewed as a Perfect Living Master, whatever the guru does is viewed by devoted disciples as being perfect. Sure, to skeptical doubting eyes the guru's actions may appear decidedly imperfect. But for his disciples, these seeming misdeeds are viewed as a test of their faith. Can they remain devoted to the guru even in the face of the guru's "bad" (to worldly people) behavior?
The current RSSB guru is Gurinder Singh Dhillon. (There's also another guru, who has been appointed by Dhillon as sort of a guru-in-waiting.) This supposedly enlightened leader of Radha Soami Satsang Beas has been accused of making death threats and illegally siphoning money for his family's benefit from several corporations in India.
It sure seems that Dhillon would benefit, as we all would, by being on a journey of continual self-improvement. However, this is a heretical perspective in the eyes of the RSSB faithful, because it undermines the notion of the guru being a perfect godlike being.
That attitude is dangerous. I'm pretty sure Carney will demonstrate in his book how elevating a supposedly enlightened guru or spiritual teacher to a position where supposedly they can do no wrong actually is itself extremely wrong.
Here in the United States people often say, "no one is above the law." Problem is, people with power, money, and influence frequently are indeed above the law, because they end up being treated more leniently by the justice system than ordinary people.
The same applies to religious and spiritual leaders. Often they are shielded from being held accountable for immoral or illegal actions by devotees who are incapable of seeing their leader as that person truly is: a flawed human being, just as all humans are.
I'll have more to say about Carney's book after I read more of it. If I'm off-base about the conclusions he reaches, I'll admit my error. After all, I readily admit that I am decidedly imperfect and am on a lifetime journey of self-improvement.
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I’m glad you admitted it. It saves me the trouble of having to once again point it out haha. I tend to stay out of arguments because I’ve never lost one and that gets boring after a while. In fact so does perfection. So let’s talk about
Gurinderji some more since this is new to me. I hate the way he’s always goose stepping around with folded hands like a Johnny Depp on steroids. He’s just another celebrity in a world gone wrong. Rushing in and out of helicopters and airplanes with bodyguards like the Beatles in a hard Day’s night. He’s even got a harem ( if only mentally )of little Sheena’s , the surfer girls. Now when you sit at the feet of a perfect master there are several feet and you don’t even know which one’s face to visualize in dark times of need (meditation ), Dumb or dumber? Signed, LMFAO
But let me make one thing perfectly clear. I love him. I don’t hate him. I love everybody. It’s not like you think. How can I hate someone who’s karma I’ve been taking on for the last 20 years. We’ve all been taking on his karma it’s not him taking our karma but we’ve been keeping his cancerous body alive. We all have. He has that new Gill just to keep him out of jail in his final days. But who knows what his will his final will and testament will say.
This is a Link to Dr. Neil’s early interview by his Therapist Wife, made in to his 2nd podcast. There are now a quite a few 20 minute audio podcasts which I have found interesting, and fits perfectly in to this discussion thread. Dr. Neil claims to remember his past life as a Hindu Brahma Priest, and dying and projecting to Bramaloka, the highest Hindu Heaven. As he continues his series of short monthly podcasts, one dropping on the 1st of each month, he describes what it feels like to be fully enlightened, and living in a human body knowing and connected to every thing. He got bored living in Bramaloka, because there was nothing more to do, so he took form again in his present human body, and describes his birth! That’s all of my Intro, but this entire series of podcasts should be of extreme interest to this tread.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1NaXiEM84LnZqK00i8pCxQ?si=4LUti890QzG-27sXrRxgZA
All seekers think that enlightenment is a goal or something to be achieved.
but they are mistaken.
“There is no saviour – not even me” – buddha
all organisations keep the follower deluded
Radha Soami is no different.
Radha Soami is a religious organisation pretending to be spiritual.
They seek an exalted state.
enlightenment is not an exalted state.
their own guru says it is nit an achievement and he says meditation is not the way
go figure
https://youtu.be/fhUq4RQ56Bs
watch at 2 mins from start.
the guy is meditating to meet God.
Gurinder shocks everyone
“never going to happen”
“you are not separate”
so why is everyone meditating
if they watch this and agree
then it’s game over
i guess most followers are confused
The offer of enlightenment is only a trap when we are not aware of our own situation. Then hope for something better may draw us to the swindler. But doubt and pessimism may lead us to inaction.
What hope is there for anyone? I would say the pessimist, someone so filled with negative experience or thinking that they do not venture into that darkness long enough to walk right into the dawn, is in the worst condition. They are left a complete victim of their limited and conditioned mind. A mind so very readily bent to prejudice and hate.
But those who make effort to see what they did not believe; learn something new about what they did not believe existed nor understood correctly; the one fully convinced there was nothing new to learn; when they, despite their flawed discrimination (for we are all so flawed) set aside their thinking and look beyond it, and thus experience what no one could have explained to them before, they are in the best shape. They know their own thinking is out of date. So they seek again.
They are in much better condition for all that darkness and mental addiction they had spent so much of life in, they are now leaving behind in exchange for the direct experience of life. I would say that one is in a path to victory.
When a man claimed to be “God in human form” starts showing up in court orders and police summonses, the question isn’t loyalty — it’s credibility. RSSB calls Gurinder Singh Dhillon a “perfect living Master,” but perfection starts to look paper-thin when Delhi High Court recovery orders (June 2019), Economic Offences Wing summonses (2020), and sworn affidavits detail hundreds of crores allegedly siphoned through Singh brothers–linked companies. These aren’t chai-stall rumors — they’re public legal proceedings, including Malvinder Singh’s criminal complaint alleging death threats tied to a financial settlement.
Layer that over years of first-hand accounts from satsangis — advice to keep quiet in an abuse case, off-color remarks in Q&As — and you see not divine mystery, but a very human pattern. Each episode can be excused in isolation, but together they form a picture that’s hard to reconcile with the image of an enlightened moral guide.
If enlightenment is supposed to mean living in truth and guiding others toward it, then ignoring these contradictions isn’t faith — it’s willful blindness. A seeker’s job isn’t to protect a leader’s image; it’s to seek the truth, even when the truth is inconvenient. Real light doesn’t fear scrutiny.
I do believe that he is God in human form. And so are you unless you’re a dog and then you’re God in dog form. Because God is everywhere. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Meditation is good. Clarity are you the daughter of Melissa?
@ Sunil
Hahaha …… how inconvenient would it be if the right path could be shown by somebody that does not fit the expectations … or even did not walk that path himself.
Just for fun Sunil ..
By now I have stopped but the past months I have read the biographies of both Kodo Sawaki Roshi and his successor Kosho Uchiyama of the soto Zen Monastery antai-ji …hahaha .. they describe their experiences in many different monasteries, the leadership and daily affairs and I bed you can not believe what you will find there … great fun …AND … eye opening.
In reading you come to understand that it doen’t matter what OTHERS do ..whomever they are !!!! … but what YOU do. After all those that came to antai-ji did came for their own motivations, their own life and not for anytthing else
@ Sunil
And if you read the biography of Shri Nisargadatta, you will find that upon meeting his Guru to be, he was instructed to use a mantra ..now ..pay attention , …he did not say a word about his guru to be or about believing …. HE, Nisargadatta accepted what was said and acted upon it to the complete exclusion of everything else … and in doing so he finally arrived there for which he is kniwn today.
This does not speak about his teacher, the quality of the teacher or anything else, his achievements nothing ..it is all about the mentality of nisargadatta the mentality with which he started out
If all would look upon themselves as seekers and students and nothing more probably they might have a chance to arrive somewhere
OR…. what about the …. PERFECT seeker …instead of… the PERFECT guru
Hahaha …. whenever there are internal problems in a country they start a war with the neighbors to divert the attention
Focusing on the ..PERFECT guru …or …his human imperfections …. is or can be …. just an diversion of personal shortcomings … at war with the imperfactions of OTHERS , OTHERS OTHERS ,,,whover they are
Hahahaha ….
There IS NO such thing as a “perfect master” or a GIHF.
those are out-dated terms.
what there IS, is realized people.
GSD is realised. A moral code is a society set standard, irrelevant to the realisation that only ONE thing exists, and we are all inseparable from it.
The drama of life is irrelevant to it.
you talk of death threats.
go read mahabharat – no threats – actual killing, it’s a war.
sikhs also fought wars – killing.
today there is war. millions die over “this land is mine”
the land will remain here, the president who orders the war will die.
how was the land his?
all is delusion.
in the bible there is a book
called ecclesiastics
the strangest book
it says, you are pissing in the wind (paraphrased)
all is pointless
all your achievements useless
all is going to end
that is the truth
all arguments are pointless
all is left behind
your life is a cosmic joke
you cannot attain anything because death destroys all
even the notion that ‘I am enlightened’
because enlightenment is not personal
there is no “I”
if there is an “I” then it’s not enlightenment
*1Remember your Creator in the days of your youth,
before the days of adversity come
and the years approach of which you will say,
“I find no pleasure in them,”
2before the light of the sun, moon, and stars is darkened,
and the clouds return after the rain,
3on the day the keepers of the house tremble
and the strong men stoop,
when those grinding cease because they are few
and those watching through windows see dimly,
4when the doors to the street are shut
and the sound of the mill fades away,
when one rises at the sound of a bird
and all the daughters of song grow faint,
5when men fear the heights and dangers of the road,
when the almond tree blossoms,
the grasshopper loses its spring,
and the caper berry shrivels—
for then man goes to his eternal home
and mourners walk the streets.
6Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped
and the golden bowl is crushed,
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring
and the wheel is broken at the well,
7before the dust returns to the ground from which it came
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”
Ecclesiastes 1-8
Remember Him.
Remember Him and return, says Ecclesiastes
I’m out of this halfwittery for good now. But I wanted to briefly point out the vileness inherent in Osho Robbins’s comments above.
The Jesus worshiper combines his halfwittery with moral bankruptcy to claim that the vilest of deeds is justified, or at least made okay, as long as they accept Jesus and accept Jesus’s priests’ mumbo jumbo. Likewise Allah worshipers. Likewise Yahweh worshiping lowlifes. And likewise Krishna worshiping, Mahabharata quoting halfwits as well.
The result? Good people ending up doing bad things in the name of religion, or at least buttressed by their religious halfwittery.
What Osho Robbins does above is extend this vile principle to his Oneness halfwittery. His Oneness ideas have been conclusively shown to be complete nonsense in comments here. He now turns up to claim —- just like vile shameless Jesus worshiping halfwits do, just like Allah worshipers do, just like Yahweh worshipers do, and just as ignorant foolish and morally bankrupt Mahabharata quoting Krishna worshipers do —- that no matter what kind of vileness you commit you’re good, as long as you buy into his Advaitic Oneness halfwittery.
Like I said, I’m done engaging with this nonsense. Just wanted, in passing, to show up this piece of vileness for what it is. Because while the halfwittery and the vileness of Jesus worshipers and Allah worshipers and Yahweh worshipers and Krishna Worshipers u.s.w. might be evident to those not entirely blinded by halfwittery, but the vileness inherent in what Osho Robbins says here about Oneness may not be as clear to some who might be taken in by the exotic-ness of Advaita.
Hence this comment
(In recognizing all of religion, and much of spirituality, as nonsense, and often vile nonsense, it was Advaita that was the final frontier so to say, the last piece of nonsense that I saw was nonsense. This comment is directed at, and written in aid of, any others so situated.)
———-
TLDR: It is wrong to refer to those that either sell or have bought into Oneness as “realized”. ‘Charlatans’ is the corrector descriptor for the former, and ‘gullible brainwashed fool’ for the latter. And it is reprehensible to imply that buying into Oneness somehow puts one in a different category beyond judgment of right and wrong and so effectively excuses wrongdoing (whether the petty dishonesty of GSD or the murderousness celebrated in the Mahabharata as essentially rendered kosher by God’s words).
@ Sunil
The secret, if any, is not to be found in WHAT you do but HOW.
Just forget for a moment meditation and look around in your own world and see the faces of those that have to deal day in day out with this or that repetitive activity. These faces tell the truth that if you do not do that activity with “love and devotion” or any other way to label the same, it will make itself visible.
Don’t forget to look at the faces of the ladies, that for years and years face the daily routines without getting any result without getting any ware … cleaning, cooking, caring .. is never done, never finished. The dishes they washed yesterday they are dirty today have to be washed and that will go on and on.
And if you find one that has to toil everyday and yet a smile on her face .. ask her why she smiles, how she manages to keep good humor.
These repetitive activities are an MIRROR …they tell you who and what you are, tell about GIVING, devoting one’s energy for free.
Meditation, irrespective of the school and tradition, is just another form of repetitive action , only more abstract, the method doesn’t matter but it trains one to pay attention, and to love what one is doing.
Otherwise to local bar is a better place to hang out.
The crux of the critique on Radhasoami/Sant Mat that comes from Sikh, Buddhist, and Advaita quarters is that if you’re told, “Here are the names of the rulers of the astral and causal planes—repeat them in meditation,” you’re being invited to treat those regions as structured, populated realities rather than the dreamlike/mind-made illusions they are. That sets up a few specific hindrances:
⸻
1. Reification of Illusion
• By invoking the “rulers” of those planes, the practitioner reinforces the sense that the astral and causal are ontologically real, with sovereign beings who govern them.
• This differs from a Buddhist or Advaitic framing, where those visions are just mind-states. Calling them by name gives them weight, a sense of permanence.
⸻
2. Strengthening Subtle Attachment
• Repeating the names draws attention to those levels of mind, potentially deepening fascination.
• Instead of loosening the grip of astral imagery, the practice can anchor the soul in those realms—making them sticky rather than transparent.
⸻
3. Ego and Specialness
• Knowing “secret names” for inner rulers can subtly inflate the sense of being on an exclusive path with privileged access.
• That feeling of special knowledge can fortify the ego—precisely the obstacle these other traditions warn against.
⸻
4. Risk of Stopping Short
• If you believe you’re actively invoking astral and causal rulers, you may treat reaching those levels as an arrival point rather than a passing illusion.
• Sikh Gurus, the Buddha, and Advaita sages all stress: don’t stop in the lights, sounds, or visions. The danger in the Radhasoami formula is that it makes those visions feel like necessary milestones rather than mirages.
⸻
5. Divergence from the “Nothingness” View
• A Course in Miracles would say: these faces and clouds “fall away as lightly as a feather” when not given power.
• Buddhism says: they’re impermanent, empty.
• Advaita says: they’re maya.
• Sikhism says: they’re barren without love for God.
• But Radhasoami, by naming and invoking them, makes them dense—something to be passed through deliberately, almost as if they are checkpoints in a cosmic bureaucracy.
⸻
In short
Repeating the “names of rulers” of astral and causal realms is double-edged: it can help organize the disciple’s inner journey, but it also makes the scenery feel solid and essential. Other mystics would call this a detour, because giving those layers too much reality risks trapping the practitioner in the very realms that were meant to be transcended.
Everything you “see and hear” in meditation is a mental projection / mind-made illusion that only strengthens the ego and detracts from the real purpose behind stilling the mind.
Sikh Gurus acknowledged that spiritual practice can bring ridhi-sidhi (occult powers). Stories describe yogis with such abilities. The Gurus rejected them as worthless. Guru Nanak said that even if you could live for ages or rule over worlds, without Naam (divine remembrance) it is empty. Powers are ego-fuel; true spirituality is humility and devotion.
Teachers like Ramana Maharshi said siddhis are distractions—“What use is seeing into the distance if you do not see the Self?”
The Buddha repeatedly discouraged disciples from clinging to mental projects / visions and sounds that arise during meditation. He said they can “intoxicate the mind” and inflate mana (conceit). The real “miracle” is the transformation of character—compassion, wisdom, freedom from craving—not flashy displays.
Here is the historical arc of how karma gets treated, from ancient roots to more modern reinterpretations:
⸻
The Historical Arc of Karma
1. Vedic & Classical Hinduism (1500 BCE →)
• Karma emerges as a binding cosmic law linked to ritual action and dharma.
• Rigorous system: every deed has inevitable consequence, shaping future births.
• No escape except through lifetimes of dharma, asceticism, or eventually divine grace (bhakti).
➡️ Karma = iron law.
⸻
2. Buddhism (500 BCE →)
• Buddha accepts karma, but reframes: it’s not an eternal law imposed by a deity, but the psychological law of intention.
• Key shift: karma is conditioned and dissolves with realization of emptiness and no-self.
➡️ Karma = true within samsara, void in nirvana.
⸻
3. Sikhism (1500s CE)
• Accepts karmic law, but insists Naam (divine remembrance) and Grace cut through it.
• Karma doesn’t vanish, but God’s love can override it.
➡️ Karma = binding but breakable through grace.
⸻
4. Radhasoami / Sant Mat (1800s CE)
• Revives karma’s strict reality: every action accounted for, astral and causal realms also affirmed as real.
• Living master seen as karmic “attorney” who takes on disciple’s burdens, clearing debts gradually through simran and meditation.
➡️ Karma = spiritual bookkeeping—real, but transferable by master’s grace.
⸻
5. Christian Mysticism (1st century →, with later mystical flowering)
• Sin/karma framed as real debt, but forgiveness through Christ wipes the slate.
• A more relational than mechanical model—love cancels law.
➡️ Karma = temporary debt canceled by grace.
⸻
6. A Course in Miracles (1970s CE)
• The most radical move: declares karma an illusion of the ego.
• No one has sinned; there is nothing to repay. Forgiveness is simply perception corrected.
➡️ Karma = nonexistent dream bookkeeping.
⸻
The Arc Summed Up
• Hinduism: karma as cosmic law.
• Buddhism: karma real but empty.
• Sikhism: karma binding but breakable.
• Radhasoami: karma absolutely binding but transferable via master.
• Christian Mysticism: karma/sin binding but canceled by Christ.
• ACIM: karma never real in the first place.
⸻
It’s almost like a pendulum: from heavy realism (Hinduism) → softening (Buddhism, Sikhism) → a re-tightening (Radhasoami) → then a radical dissolving (ACIM).
Here’s the same parable re-cast in a more scriptural, meditative rhythm—something that could be spoken aloud slowly, almost like liturgy:
⸻
The Road of Many Teachers
A soul set forth, seeking its home.
And it came upon a sage of the Vedas, seated beneath a banyan tree.
The sage spoke: “All you have done is written. The heavens and hells are real, the realms are many, and each debt must be paid. Walk carefully, for liberation comes only when the account is cleared.”
The soul bowed low, yet felt the weight of ages upon its back.
Farther on, the soul met the Buddha, still as a mountain.
The Buddha spoke: “Yes, karma moves, but only in a dream. The realms are passing clouds. See through them, and awaken. Not by payment are you freed, but by the ending of the dream.”
The soul’s burden softened; it saw the shadow-nature of its chains.
And the soul walked on, until it heard the song of a Guru, radiant in song.
The Guru sang: “Call the Name of the One. Karma may bind, but the Name burns brighter than all bonds. Let visions come and go—your task is only remembrance. Sing, and you shall merge with the Beloved.”
The soul’s heart leapt, lightened by love, steadied by melody.
Then appeared a Christian mystic, holding bread and wine.
She whispered: “You name it karma; we name it sin. But hear this: Love keeps no ledger. Christ has torn the page. Heaven is not wages, but gift. Enter by surrender, not by merit.”
The soul tasted freedom, as though grace had already been written into its being.
At the riverbank sat a Radhasoami master, deep in meditation.
The master spoke: “Yes, karma is vast, and the inner heavens are real—astral, causal, beyond. Alone you cannot cross. But hold fast to the sacred names, walk with me, and I shall guide you home to Sat Lok.”
The soul felt cared for, yet also pressed beneath the maps of many worlds.
At last the road fell silent.
And the soul heard a voice like pure stillness, formless and clear:
“Child, you have never left. Karma, sin, realms—all are but dreams. Forgive the dream, and it will vanish. Nothing is owed, nothing to cross. You are already in God, as you have forever been.”
And the soul awoke, to find the road was never real.
Me meditating, using Surat Shabd Yoga Tech.
https://grok.com/imagine/post/7cd40513-0daa-4c24-aa7f-279186b60bf4?source=grok_copy_link&platform=ios