Following up on my previous guest blog post by an anonymous person who periodically sends me messages through my contact form, below is a message I received today from them which contains interesting information about their experience with Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) and the guru who heads up this India-based religious organization, Gurinder Singh Dhillon (GSD).
It bothers me whenever someone writes me about how they became disillusioned with some aspect of RSSB, and says that I can’t share their name, just their message, because they’re afraid of what zealous RSSB disciples might do to them if their identity was revealed. It’s just really disturbing that a spiritual organization supposedly dedicated to love fosters so much hatred of those who decide that RSSB isn’t for them.
By the way, if anyone has fantasies about torturing this person’s name and email address out of me, your scheme won’t succeed. This blog’s Contact form asks for an email address, but it doesn’t have to be a genuine email address. This person uses a fake one, so I have no way of contacting them. Sorry. But if someone wants to bribe me with a large sum of money to reveal their email address, forget what I just said and send me the cash — lots of $100 bills sounds appropriate.
Here’s their message:
Hey Brian, the anonymous poster here. Many people read my various posts and commented. They seemed really popular. Their responses also proved why I had disillusions. Imagine all that in person.
Many even tried to guess who I am or profile me. With all the negative comments, you can imagine the fear I have about people trying to identify me. You’re a lot braver than I am brother. I will just say this is who I am.
-I followed all the requirements
-I read all the books
-I went to satsang
-I went to seva
-I sang songs
-I went to local centre
-I went to headquarters
-I went to global centres abroad
-I was in the satsangi community
-I got initiated
-I meditated daily
-I knew high ranking “famous” sevadars and trustees
-I met the Guru direct and we chatted many times
-I leftThat’s all.
If anyone wants to know why….
1. Nothing EVER bad or wrong or evil or criminal happened to me personally at RSSB. I will credit that. It would be a lie otherwise. But there are other truths…
2. It was hard. I knew it. They tell you that. The lifestyle is extreme. I accepted it. But….
3. There was constant pressure, politics, indian cultural requirements, hierarchies, superiority complexes, egos, light-sikhism, women were just treated as “extras”, patriarchal, community/religious policing, public shaming, gossip, and even sudden exile/shunning. I didn’t get a heads up on that. Yes the place is beautiful, and yes you can get those issued anywhere- but I wasn’t expecting that from a place that says it is a “spiritual path” headed up by a guru who is apparently God In Human Form On Earth. I just never felt I was good enough. I could never just exist without someone telling me what to do (and therefore, I wasn’t doing it right, EVER). It felt like a constant culture of surveillance and monitoring. I felt like I was on CCTV and was always open to attack and critique, like a criminal in a police interview. I was just sitting myself one day after another weird “religious policing moment” (someone came up to me, asked me about my life, did the “religious police routine”, criticised me, got up and left. I was left sitting there silent, confused, dumbfounded, and an inner feeling gently said “You DO realise you’re here voluntarily, right? You don’t HAVE to be here” and a wave of peace rushed through me.If anyone wants to know.
GSD is alright. He’s a regular guy, I had good times just joking around with him, silly jokes and banter, just in his jeans, trainers, and a baseball cap. He’s the type of guy you’d have a laugh with at a bar or at a BBQ. I liked him when I got to know him a bit. He seemed to like me. I don’t know if that makes him the Satguru or God In Human Form or a Messiah, or if I should believe my salvation and soul depends on him. He is a nice bloke though. He was nice to me and I will give him that.4. I noticed over time being around him, he felt just as lost, miserable, and didn’t really want to be there either. I could see it in him and recognised that same feeling. He even commented in Q&As something once which confirmed it, and I just felt so bad for him. He said “My life didn’t turn out how I wanted to either. I was a young man, living my life, running my business, 40’s, then my master died, and then suddenly YOU have to give advice to EVERYONE (waves at the crowd)… that’s so crazy, man!” My heart broke for the guy in that moment. He also wistfully and quietly once said in a Q&A with a soft smile, “Sometimes I wonder what my life would be like…just living in Malaga…” and his voice trailed off quietly. It was so sad. I felt bad for him. My heart broke for him then too.
I realised I thought I was trapped but he was even more trapped than me.
He’s a nice guy and my heart broke for him in those moments. Honestly. He’s as reluctant to be there as a lot of others quietly are. I’m no guru, so I can leave, and I did. But I see this in other satsangis too, it’s a quiet undercurrent of despair, a sadness in the eyes, a quiet scream, they aren’t really “living” but “living out a script”. GSD deserved better from his family who forced that white turban on his head. Just like a lot of people deserve better from their families who drag them there.I genuinely wish him happiness in his life.
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>> I realised I thought I was trapped but he was even more trapped than me.<<
Everything you see is a form of being trapped .. there is no more or less trapped.
Everything is trapped in a body, and in whatever is needed to survive in nature and in all sorts of roles in culture.
The little birds eating from the feeding tray do not seem to be at ease, they are constantly looking around while feeding themselves that not another creature is feeding on them.
Other animals have to run and run to outrun another animal so that they can stay alive
Genesis 3:19…In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust.
When traveling by public means of transport in general i see people gazing with sadness in the eyes, kind of a quiet scream, that they aren’t really “living” but “living out a script and a role”.
That is what I see in the eyes of children going to school and even while they do little chores at home like dish washing.
His uncle often said that ADAPTATION is the way out. He was the embodiment of a human being that had mastered that capacity a capacity that all humans, all sentient beings have.
An in dat way set an example that it CAN BE DONE by all humans
I’ve said this. He didn’t want to be there and he doesn’t want you to be like him. He’s stuck, you’re not. Misery loves company. No one wants that guru job and to want it there’s something wrong with you. But there’s something wrong with everyone anyway so he took it. He actually really needed that job to get special preferential treatment for cancer and he sure takes care of his helicopter and plane rides for the boredom but he also vacations at the beach. I don’t know what he’s complaining about , he’s got property all over the world. He’s just sad now that he’s at the end and maybe he can’t physically scuffle off . He’s set a rotten example. He can’t read human nature like a psychologist can even. When I tried to give him advice he said and I quote. ” I’ll ask for advice when I need another vice”. So I quit taking any from him too. That’s not the purpose of this type of guru. That’s the purpose of an Internet influencer.
And whatever you do don’t criticize Gurinder. Even the least bit of your own analytical thinking on your part is seen as bad intentions. Because he sees us as he is , not as we are. He has no empathy. No matter what he says.
Signed,
Lost Control and the Outpatients
RONALD Weasley, how DARE you criticize the Perfect Living Master?! You are in BIG TROUBLE WHEN YOU GET HOME!
Why can’t we do this? Like, why? Why is this exempt?
Ask any satsangi to declare their faith to the whole word. They won’t. They won’t say ‘This billionaire exec man Gurinder Singh Dhillon who you can Google for fraud cases, is God On Earth and I personally believe he is’. They should identify themselves and their beliefs to everyone. They won’t. There’s a reason they’re all so quiet and secretive about it. They can HEAR THEMSELVES lol. They KNOW it sounds dumb AF.
Gurinder singh dhillon took the position of perfect guru, lol, with open arms. What a promotion , from waiter in spain to a self declared god in human form. This god complex would play to his super ego. He calculated that in this position, he could be a crook and hide in public as a perfect guru, and get away with what ever he likes. He has in many occasions in informal gathering said that for all you know he could be the biggest criminal on the planet. This is the only truth he has spoken. And in this position he has siphoned billions from is own nephew’s companies, made political gains with modi , MPs and any influential people. He’s only sad now that he’s been exposed and wants to hide in shame and embarrassment. Gurinder, its too late, its time to face your karma , god will serve his justice on evil.
Sounds like he might even have multiple personality disorder in addition to his hypochondria and narcissism. I just get this from observing. Trying to explain the baseball cap. It’s all baseball. I can’t get past his security.
The Baltimore Catechism says in the beginning:
[Q] “Why did God make you?”,
[A] “God made me [in order to:
[1] know Him,
[2] love Him,
and
[3] to serve Him in this world,
In order by doing so to be happy in this world and with Him forever in the next.”
All so called spiritual narratives, theist or atheist, as far as , I understand, come with answering a question related to being around here.
That answer never entails that God is there to love his creation and his creatures .. no teaching, no practice has any empathy for the one that follows in their footsteps … none at all.
They all tell you to accept an creative power as ruling this universe, not to trespass its laws of nature and to treat your fellow human companions as your self .. as the best way to pass your time here.
Nothing exists for your sake .. not even an apple .. let alone, guru’s and gods
It’s good that Brian’s Churchless blog provides a platform for disillusioned cult members to air their problems and grievances – and I’m sure there will be more to come.
It’s mankind’s way, particularly if you’re young, perhaps disillusioned in some way (or many) ways and, along with an enquiring mind seek out answers to life’s perceived mysteries. And it is a sad fact that there will always be those who claim to know a path that will solve all of one’s mental agitations and life problems.
Perhaps such searching is a ‘rite of passage’ that such folk have to go through. It’s unfortunate to say the least, where one ends up in a manipulative and controlling group run by, quite often, needy and self-serving ‘masters’.
There is no ‘answer’ as far as I can see, except that in time, the follower(s) wake up to the realisation of how they have given themselves over to someone else’s will and worldview. The same goes for political leaders, whose inconsistencies and almost criminal behaviour are excused by their followers.
But we humans have always been a bit sheep-like, following those who shout the loudest and promise the most. As we are generally greedy and suckers for the easy fix, we always fall for what is the same old platitudes – dressed up to appeal to the fears, aspirations and general psychology of the time.
Well Ron ..to live in a [cultural and social] community,and to enjoy its benefits …. comes at a price.
To prevent ongoing inter human strive, hatred etc … the group needs a common shared reality, narrative, ..MY ..family, friends,…neighborhood, village, country religion etc etc
MGS used the image of “…humans standing shoulder by shoulder.
That image tels, that as long as two or more people are looking in the same direction, they share the same vision and need not to be occupied with the other, seeing him, and being anoyed by him.
Did not the war bring people together??
Um. Your comment follows quite a different line than what l take – but that’s okay.
@ Ron E.
I see institutions etc as an necessity for all for the survival of the group .. the alternative being anarchism .. but not for each and everyone.
In order to live in Rome, only adaptation to their ways will do, there is no need to become a Roman nor is there any need to make them understand that being roman is an illusion.
The issue is this. If RSSB is Rome to use your example
You go to Rome for lots of reasons. Maybe a short visit, maybe to visit family/friends you know, maybe just to see it. But they try to make you a full time Roman citizen, and make it very difficult to leave Rome. Anyone who comes to Rome is now fully Roman. This is the rule.
If you want to leave you have to essentially “escape”.
If you are originally from Rome, you can only escape by seeking asylum and staying elsewhere in Spain (convert). If you were originally from somewhere else (e.g. Germany) and came to Rome, you can only leave by saying you are going back to your home country Germany (go back to what you believed first whether Christian/Athiest whatever). Rome says they let you come and go just as tourist visit or holiday, but they push everyone to become fully Roman citizen who live there.
Some people came to Rome and are happy to become Roman, some were born Roman and happy to stay that way. This is good. But not all have this. That’s why all.this online stuff exists including Brian.
@ Anon
I answered you in a very detailed way and then I must have pushed the wrong button and lost all the material … I don’t feel for starting anew.
If you are living under pressure of your family and your socio-cultural class and there is no way to make them understand that it is against the very tenets of Sant Mat to put pressure on anybody, the only thing you can do is to adapt … acting as he once adviced me to do … to live in rome as the romans do … outwardly
Charan Singh said the same and more about how he rued being the Beas guru.
We were told by Beas apologists that this was just Charan’s endearing humility. Charan didn’t really *mean* he didn’t want to be guru, or that he’d much rather spend time with the people he actually loved instead of we tedious satsangis. Charan was just being humble — because that’s what a true guru is: always humble, even if he has to lie about it.
The same with Charan’s admission that he didn’t meditate much, and that he knew hardly a thing about RSSB theology when he became guru (Treasure Beyond Measure). The Beas apologists told us Charan did tons and tons of meditation. Charan was just being humble, unlike that awful Kirpal fellow who boasted about meditating for many hours a day.
There’s much misunderstanding about how to discern whether a Guru is legit or not. These 4 indices may be helpful:
1) A true guru always does what his family tells him to do. Even when he’s in his 30s.
2) A true guru will always demand that his followers work to financially support themselves, while the guru has no paying job and lives off the money his family gives him.
3) A true guru pretends to be wonderfully ecumenical but never has a kind word to say about any other guru or religion than the one he leads.
4) A true guru never, under any circumstances, admits he’s ever been wrong.
We all must decide whether we want to be a true guru, or whether we need to grow a set.
Interesting to note his predecessor Charan said this.
Many satsangis will say ‘oh no poor him ‘ and feel sorry for him. Why?
Many people think it’s being humble, in the Indian cultural sense. This isn’t humility – this is someone actively saying ‘I don’t want to do this’. Many satsangis think it’s a deeply spiritual ‘I am nothing’ statement, despite being the God In Human Form – or maybe it’s the Guru ‘playing into it’ and acting fake-spiritual himself. Maybe it’s also ‘fake humble’ and really narcissistic (‘BOOHOO I never even asked to have global fame, instant leadership, instant respect, people all over the world flock to see me, worship me… I was chosen selected handpicked to be the guru, it’s soooo hard being this special OH NO’.)
Everyone has free will. Including him. You don’t want to be the guru, leave.
Many royals gave up their crowns, many Hollywood stars left it behind, many people leave their careers.
Many satsangis left their native country India to foreign western lands. Their kids then get access to Western education and are taught ‘think for yourself, use your brain’ and at home it’s ‘we worship this man he’s God In Human Form’. They are still stuck in the same cycle as their predecessors bowing to a Godman Guru. It’s an intergenerational curse within families.
This is an intergenerational curse within that bloodline – someone is plucked from living their happy life and forced to become The Guru. (New Gill is GSD’s cousin, GSD was Charan’s nephew, Charan was Sawan’s grandson…). This family has to continue their spiritual religious front to keep it going for their own greed (many people online say it’s for money laundering, lots of unmarked cash donations, they’ve got fraud cases going already). The cycle continues until someone breaks it. It’s hard to believe a fully grown adult man that’s a super rich businessman, can’t call the shots in his own life – over generations?! Their family can live by ‘honest living’ just like they tell the rest of us.
Those who want power do not deserve it.
And those who deserve power do not want it.
I would hate to leave the impression giving my first satsang ever after Gurinderji dies that I didn’t love him. That would be wrong. I love everybody. I just think he constantly proves his lack of empathy and by appointing that Gill fella and actually watching it happen proves that if it’s so bad being a guru why does he have to watch this other guy do it sooner than necessary. He’s got multiple personalities. I can’t help his medical conditions. I maintain that is just insurance in case he goes to prison.
‘Your honour my billionaire client can’t go to prison for his fraud cases, he’s deeply ill and needs lots of hospital treatments… we ask for house arrest please, have mercy! He’s actually a Guru, the Satguru, Perfect Living Master, Perfect Saint, Param Sant, God In Human Form! If you don’t please the Guru – he won’t come and collect you at the time of your death and take you to heaven, he’ll leave you to the clutches of Kal the devil! You’ll be reincarnated forever and ever amen! Think of your soul! Just do whatever he says!’
I’ll take my chances. Lol
RSSB emphasises the need for a living Guru, the “perfect living master” or “perfect living saint”. They always say you need someone living.
I found this on a forum. This is an RSSB book which contains letters from the gurus to each other.
WITH THE THREE MASTERS (Great Master’s quotes).
Vol. 1, 3rd Edition, 1979, p.200:
“A Satguru, after initiating an individual hands him over to his own Guru.He Himself does not take the responsibility. If his Guru cannot help the individual, the Guru’s Guru or even the Guru of his Guru’s Guru helps him. They are very jealous about the reputation of their Ministry.”
Vol. 2, 3rd Printing, 1984, p.68:
“If the Guru himself has not reached Satlok, but his Guru is perfect or, like Swami Ji Maharaj, has come straight from Anami (the Nameless Region, the highest of all), he will take his disciples up to the stage he has attained himself, and beyond that his Guru or his Guru’s Guru or Swami ji Maharaj Himself will take them. There should be no worry about this.”
Vol. 1, 3rd Edition, 1979, p.200-201:
“At last, one day, Chacha Ji Maharaj said very feelingly: `What do you take me to be?’ I replied: `I take you to be the younger brother of Huzur Swami Ji Maharaj, a devoted friend and, in fact, THE VERY FORM OF BABAJI MAHARAJ.’ At this, Chacha Ji Maharaj said: `That clinches the issue. If you think me to be what you have just said you have to obey my order and start bestowing initiations. You will be doing Swami Ji’s work, AND SWAMIJI HIMSELF WILL PROTECT EVERYONE.’ At this, under compulsion, I took up this duty.”
“Therefore, when Baba Ji Maharaj departed from this mortal world, for one yearafter that, continued the Master, I did not initiate any one. Then when I went to the Satsang of Chacha Ji Maharaj (the younger brother of Huzur Swami Ji Maharaj) at Agra, for twenty-eighth days an argument went on between us. He wanted me to initiate, but I persisted in my refusal, saying that I was unfit for this duty and that some sadhu should be sent from there to initiate people” — Maharaj Sawan Singh-ji
A commentor says “it does not inspire much confidence to hear that the guru never takes responsibility for the disciple, but passes responsibility on to a chain of dead predecessors, none of whom, when alive, took responsibility for disciples.Apparently the ability to take responsibility for disciples is thought to arise in a guru after he is dead, unlike other abilities. And yet RS criticizes people for expecting to be saved by dead gurus like Jesus.”
Another said “who will soami ji pass on to… tulsi? (Soamj ji the true founder famously had no guru)
If I saw him I would wonder if I had gone to the wrong place. How’s he going to come for anybody at the time of death if he dies first anyway. Charan Singh doesn’t come for anyone either. It’s just that power that he represented while he was alive. Your guru’s guru will come in the form of the shabd. I’m betting 100% on that. But these personalities are long gone Charan isn’t coming back for anything or anyone. And why would you wish that upon someone.? He couldn’t even if he wanted to. Gurinder on the other hand loves the fame and the acclaim and the drama and also the spice of you only live once you may as well spend it all. He might have to come back.
Gurinder singh dhillon took the position of perfect guru, lol, with open arms. What a promotion , from waiter in spain to a self declared god in human form. This god complex would play to his super ego. He calculated that in this position, he could be a crook and hide in public as a perfect guru, and get away with what ever he likes. He has in many occasions in informal gathering said that for all you know he could be the biggest criminal on the planet. This is the only truth he has spoken. And in this position he has siphoned billions from is own nephew’s companies, made political gains with modi , MPs and any influential people. He’s only sad now that he’s been exposed and wants to hide in shame and embarrassment. Gurinder, its too late, its time to face your karma , god will serve his justice on evil.
Ohh ´my God´..
Why all these Masters here in this stuff world..
We all go to somewhere.. after physical dead..
How so do we need a specific Master in this physical world?
We all go ´somewhere´..we cańt know where from here..
It is a ´believe system´right?
Otherwise so little people can go back to where we/one belongs too.
Christians thinks..Bhudists..and Catholics..they all think that they are the ´Ones´
Everything living´ is going back´ to where they come from as souls <3 is what I think..
Amen
I hope that it is a Lovely Loving Peacefull Place.
Because we all come from´ our Essence´.