Like many people, I’m a big fan of the unexpected in movies, novels, and streaming shows. You know, that moment when the story line has been moving along in a predictable fashion — interesting, but nothing special — then the plot takes an abrupt totally unexpected twist that makes me go, Wow, I sure didn’t see that coming.
The people I thought were alive actually are dead. This is a computer simulation, not reality. The astronauts who long for their families back on Earth actually are clones with implanted memories. What seems to be a remote mountain community in Idaho houses the last humans on our planet 1,200 years in the future.
For much of my life, I looked upon spirituality in much the same fashion. I was attracted to mystical sorts of teachings where this world, and indeed the entire universe, is just an ephemeral illusion, with lasting ultimate reality residing in a supernatural realm far beyond ordinary understanding. (This is an example of how, as the saying goes, all of philosophy is a footnote to Plato — who taught that the unchanging World of Forms casts light of which our world is just a shadow.)
Well, I’ve changed my views a lot.
Now I embrace a life as it is here and now perspective. That has come to seem the most radical, far out, unusual approach to spirituality that I’ve ever come across. It bears a resemblance to Zen, yet is even more iconoclastic. At least to someone like me, who used to devour books and talks about spirituality that were firmly in the “leave this world in order to find a better one” camp.
So presently it strikes me as wonderfully unique and refreshing to think, “living life just as it is, that’s the only type of spirituality I need or want.” It’s like a movie where the heroine expends tremendous time and effort to find a treasure, only to discover that her true richness is the home that she left to go searching.
I”ve finally finished Robert Saltzman’s book, “Depending on no-thing.” I readily admit that it’s strange I read a 607 page book that conveys the basic message, there’s no need to do anything but live life just as it is. Of course, people addicted to drugs or alcohol engage in a lot of work to end up free of those substances. Likewise, Saltzman answers a lot of questions from people addicted to various forms of spirituality, which included me at one point in my life.
Amazon has a good summary of what the book is about: (Saltzman’s other book, The Ten Thousand Things, has the same goal, but is much shorter)
Depending on No-Thing is a clear and unsentimental look at what remains when the imagined center of “me” falls away. Robert Saltzman writes from lived experience, not doctrine. He dismantles the spiritual promises of final answers and special states, turning attention instead to the simplicity of experience as it actually shows up—without metaphysical storylines, without self-improvement agendas, without a someone behind the curtain.
This book is not a guide to bliss or transcendence. It is a companion for those who have seen through the usual reassurances and are ready to explore life with nothing to stand on: no hidden witness, no enlightened identity, no ultimate ground. What appears in that openness is not despair, but intimacy with the moment as it unfolds—unfiltered, unowned.
Psychological clarity replaces metaphysical fantasy. Direct seeing replaces belief. The search for escape gives way to a straightforward honesty about being alive.
For readers exhausted by teachings that promise liberation somewhere else, Depending on No-Thing offers something rarer: the end of seeking, and the beginning of unguarded presence with what is.
Here’s a few passages from Depending on no-thing that convey the gist of Saltzman’s message, if you aren’t into reading lengthy books.
Freedom does not entail leaving anything behind, or splitting “good” from “bad,” but in opening completely, without resistance, to whatever is seen, felt, thought, and otherwise experienced moment by moment as the one and only “reality.” There is no other “you,” and no other reality except in your imagination, which is only changeful thought.
The freedom you desire is here right now and consists of being exactly what you are moment by moment, with no idea of improvement or of attaining or becoming anything else. There is no impediment, I say, to this radical self-acceptance except in imagination. That impediment is whatever you imagine you might be or could be “if only.” Just stop!
…It may be hard to accept each moment as it is without hoping or searching for something “more evolved,” but seeing the lie in such hopes for the future, in my experience, allows freedom, sanity, and reality in the present. And you only have to take it one moment at a time. Without hope, imagined future glories — familiar hiding places — disappear. This moment is all one ever has to deal with, and all one ever can deal with. With that understanding, samsara is nirvana.
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That’s like me. I went from thinking that Angelina Jolie was a genius to thinking she was just uninformed but smart to believing she knew better to seeing that she was stupid and now I see her as a complete idiot and fool. And the same was said about Gurinder Singh. But it takes a strong heart to beat cancer and they say they’re going to beat it soon, just like a drug addict is going to quit tomorrow. Everything is spiritual but they might not know it and I’m not the one to tell them. My English is not so good.
The intellect is the greatest barrier to spirituality that’s why so many dope addicts are very spiritual people and materialistic business people aren’t. But once you conquer the intellect and satisfy the mind it becomes your greatest asset and conduit to spirituality because you have no other way to bypass it except death. And still you’re going to be born with it again. Atheists are very spiritual people because they’re always thinking about God, they just can’t believe. The Guru lies to some and they think of him allot too. The rest just don’t think much of him.
This is a little off the subject but death is spiritual and the death of many is a tragedy but it’s coming. The irony that America will side with Russia and India will side with China and Iran (the Mideast) in the next world war. Soon. The new third world will be Ukraine and Europe together. They’ll try to stay neutral for as long as possible but in the end they will probably meet the same fate as Israel , nuked beyond recognition. Mind you this is all conjecture at this point. But I see no other reason why Trump is trying to make everyone hate Israel so much. It’s working. Now it’s just a space race who can leave the planet the quickest and in that respect we are already working with Russia. Embargo lifted. Space Force Enterprise . Anyway I just turned 70 and I have big plans.
I agree with most of the things in this blog.
Problem is we have over the years de sensedised ourselves from word spiritual.
As soon as we hear or reads about it, we take a seat in mind which is most comfortable and convenient.
So everyone of us is stuck in those cozy rooms we have built for ourselves arising from various past spiritual activities.
It becomes even more for long time riders of a motor who they don’t like it anymore for whatever reason.
Spiritual detoxification is the solution. And what Brian wrote is exactly that.detoxify yourselves everyday and one day you would realise there was essentially Nothing but Me.
Just as I described in my post on sahaj yoga earlier, make it simple not complex.every thought which leads to complexity Drop it.any thought that pushes you back into present Accept it.
Slowly your true earned spiritual wealth will increase so much that door opens up for various possibilities ( only siddhi no riddhi)
Since nobody is saying anything what about the way Gurinder compares the relationship of the soul to God of that to a wife to her husband. Why is it always the husband that is God and the wife that is the soul ? Does the soul have to walk 10 ft behind as well while worshiping her husband God ? That’s what he gets for plagiarizing Maharaji. Confusing the audience. What if the married couple is nonspecific gender with nonspecific then who is God and who is the soul? What a loser. The man does not like women. They are lesser class in the India society. Girls how can you stand for this? The day and need of the guru is over. That’s ancient history. I believe in world war 3 and Armageddon will be just like the Bible predicted started in the Middle East and it’s happened before in India. Just read the ancient literature. India has been in nuclear Holocaust before.Bhagavad Gita
The thing about Saltzman’s books is that they are merely transcripts of question-and-answer sessions with various people. I see that he offers no solutions, just expresses himself from present moment awareness.
He talks of awakening in the vein of: “Whatever you think, think and see is you. There is no choice in the matter – no escaping you. That is what I mean by ‘awakening’ – a sudden awareness, quite undeniable, that everything you see, think and feel is you.”
And: – “There is no you who has thoughts – no homunculus sitting in the middle of your skull ‘doing’ thinking. You ‘are’ thoughts. You ‘are’ feelings. You ‘are’ perception. ‘You’ are in no way separate from them, nor are you the owner of them. Without them, ‘you’ do not exist.”
He speaks from his perspective, saying that: – “…following a spiritual path, a religion or a guru serves primarily as a means of avoidance – a way of replacing what one actually is right now with a glorified vision of what one could be. This is the fallacy of becoming.”
Once it is seen that there is no self to realise, that ‘myself’ is whatever thoughts, feelings and perceptions arise, what is left is an amazing living organism that is life itself. Apart from the natural biological necessities, no conjectured other worldly life is necessary.
All this is a good primer for spirituality, if we really can accept life as it is. People say they do when they harbor lofts and resentments that actually they in the way of accepting life as it is. Scientists don’t discover things based upon opinion, but upon observation, and digging what your senses and thinking bring to you.
It is odd to watch people swallow while without question their thinking. They say they are accepting life as it is. But they are not. Love is much more, even what is right before you. Thinking as a function is necessary here. But we aren’t even thinking when we don’t dig deeper. The twist in the plot, where the love interest turns out to be part of the plot to land you in prison for murder (vertigo}, is right there for your own story to uncover.
It starts, not with accepting your thinking, but acknowledging what is.
Acknowledging what is here, including the variety of people, including what you can’t see yet, acknowledging you don’t know yet, but in the faith that by acknowledging and accepting you will realise reality has more too it.
Those are the first steps.
When you acknowledge, and then learn to accept, especially what isn’t yours…
You are ready to be flexible, to adapt and survive in a larger world you were largely dead to before. And in that effort to adapt, realising that you must partner with reality in order to make any progress at all.
So then comes submission.
Surrender.
And worship.
Everyone wants to leap to the last stage, but realityn there’s then back to the first.
So, master that stage, acknowledge what you know, and that you don’t know. Live there.
And watch that lover whom you thought had become the enemy reveal that theys were always in love with you, that you had gotten tangled up,and their pain waiting for you it’s also very real. The twists in the story are real. Just see how any animal struggles when caught in the ropes of a trap they themselves set long ago.
Anon here.
Brian I like this post a lot. “The most far-out unexpected form of spirituality might be… just living life as it is”. That’s really nice. Thanks for another great post.
Left RSSB and spirituality 20 years ago, but still reading scores of books to get it through his head that all he needs to do is “live life as it is.”
There are satsangis with shelves full of RSSB books. Not uncommon. A satsangi owns dozens of RSSB books, despite their aggregate thousands of pages all saying the same thing. Perhaps owning such a library makes the sangi a bit trange, and his motivation unusual, but it is understandable. The satsangi reads these books to fortify his spiritual attitude. To get his mind right.
What I find hard to understand is someone who claims to have left spirituality 20 years ago for living life as it is — but is still reading books by spiritual authorities explaining how to live life as it is.
It seems to me that people who live life as it is aren’t reading 600-page books about the need to live life as it is.
If living life as it is is simple and easy and obvious and fulfilling, then why the endless search for yet another book, another author, who offers clues on how to live life as it is?
What exactly is standing in the way of living life as it is? There must be something. We’re told of the fulfillment of atheism, the joy of hard determinism, and the bliss of freedom from the guru trip. OK great. If all that is working for you and you’re securely ensconced in just living life as it is….why are you still obsessively reading books about how to live life as it is?
To tell us about it?
If someone is still reading neo-advaita books, they clearly still have a problem with living life as it is. If someone claims that hard determinism is “reality” and mocks anyone who says free will exists, but still gets angry about politics (like me), they likewise have a problem with living life as it is (or how they define life and reality for us).
The problem is they are unwittingly admitting that living life as it is doesn’t work for them. That is why they keep returning to advaita porn to get their mind right, just as the satsangi reads Quest for Light for the hundredth time to get his mind gurubhakti recharged.
You’d think that some of these people have never heard the sweet Sound that saved a wretch like me. (Amazing Grace) The way they act. But I am the actor for real. At least my online persona is. Who wants to meditate for 35 years just to start a blog on the internet. Weren’t there some results ? didn’t they hear the whole concept become reality?? Who cares what you see once you hear that Sound. I wish you all could see just what I heard. And you don’t hear it with your physical ears you experience the vibration it comes across as a sound.
“myself’ is whatever thoughts, feelings and perceptions arise”
No.
You can observe a tree
You are not a tree.
You can observe your arm.
You have an arm.
You are not your arm.
You can observe people reacting with emotions.
You are not them.
You can observe your own emotions come
And pass
You are not your emotions.
You can observe others act, you can listen to them share their thoughts.
You are not their actions nor their thoughts
You can observe your own actions begin
And end…
You can observe your own thoughts pass by
Like a pedestrian.
They approach
And they depart
But you are still here watching
You are not these.
Stay here, now and observe
That is you.
‘myself’ is whatever thoughts, feelings and perceptions arise
Undoubtedly Yes! As all you can know – not believe, but know – is your perceptions, feelings and thoughts in this very moment. That is your reality – your present reality. In that moment, you are not the tree, or arm, etc. (that’s silly) but the perception of the tree – and then it’s gone, replaced by another thought, perception or feeling.
When you are angry, that’s you; when you are happy, that’s you – you are never static; you, like everything else in life, is in constant flux. You are always free to be this ever-changing movement, but it’s habitually ignored in favour of focusing and repeating the thought that ‘I’ am a separate watcher.
All we can honestly ever know is the world as presented to us through our perceptions, our thoughts, and our feelings. That total, but ever-changing package is ‘myself’. The reality is that what we experience is our brain’s interpretation of the world – and your world is your brain’s interpretation. Such is our reality, all else being conjecture – often based on someone else’s conjecture dressed up as divine revelation and the such like.
It’s quite normal to want to superimpose that there is a you watching – it does feel like that. But try to find such an entity, and you will fail. Unless, of course, you invent or believe there is one, and belief is not fact.
It’s possible to get rid of your wants and your needs and your desires and just accept what is given.
Hi Ron
You wrote
“It’s quite normal to want to superimpose that there is a you watching – it does feel like that. But try to find such an entity, and you will fail. Unless, of course, you invent or believe there is one, and belief is not fact.”
No.
When you become aware of your own thoughts in just the same way you are aware of a tree, or of another human being, then you are in the present,
Not a thought, not a sensation, not a perception, but awareness of thoughts, awareness of sensations, awareness of perceptions..Conscious awareness.
When you become aware that you are seeing and sensing perceptions, whereas a moment ago all you were aware of was the sensation itself, then you are in the present. That is you. You were never the perception,never the emotion, nor are you imprisoned by these.
A moment ago you were angry but didn’t know it. Now you realise you are angry. Now you are awake and aware to that. And while you may feel angry still, you aren’t angry.
You aren’t the emotion, you arent the sensation. You are more than that.
But just because you can’t put that into a convenient box doesnt mean you don’t exist. Trying to define you by emotions, sensations and perceptions is trying to reduce reality to thinking and concepts. The reality is far more than that. It’s beyond thinking, beyond sensation and perception.
The clue that this is so is that when you see it, see this happens naturally, then you also see the others around you. Now they exist whereas before you only had your opinions about them. Now you see them, now you hear them.
And they, too, are more than their parts, which may just be their prison.
Learning to see happens because it happens all on its own.
And then your only job is to accept it. Accept the awakening into reality.
Far more than you can box.
Ron, here is another clue for you. When you become aware of how you are feeling, or what you are thinking, or what you are sensing, don’t try to describe it. Don’t degrade your awareness into a description. That’s intellect doing its job of filtering and labelling. When you let that happen, you become unconscious, bound up by your description. When you look and listen, put aside the internal narrative, the internal dialogues. Practice avoiding words and concepts. Clinging to them is clinging to the past, living in the past, living in the artificial and filtered world of the brain, and it’s the basis for all prejudice and close-minded thinking. Stay open. You don’t have to have a nice answer, You don’t need to be attached to an idea. That’s not living in the present. You don’t need to know if there is something supernatural. Reality is already beyond what you can codify. It already extends beyond human knowledge. It’s already beyond that right now. Accept that you don’t know. And so you don’t have to defend any belief, even atheism, even spirituality.
Let Conscious awareness of the indescribable now be your belief system. And you will most certainly experience what is beyond description. It won’t take long. Just practice being here now. Not always easy. But amazing.
No Spence. Whatever conjectures you come up with, they are all attempts to suggest there is something greater than the natural physical/mental organism. Until one sees through this fallacy you will remain in a conjectural world of beliefs, hopes and desires.
That is not my world; but if that suits you then I’m okay with that.
And the little guy named Gurinder Singh Dhillon is the main reason it got ruined for the true seekers. And I’m here to tell you that it ruined it for me too for a long time but I came back not to him but to the path. The real guru inside is much brighter than dummy. It’s not bragging if you can back it up and it’s not slander if it’s true
The late MCS would now and then used as an example to put before the audience how to deal with effort in relation to grace, the way how parents would react with children that would do their duties and what happened if the failed to do so.
He said that as long as the children are doing well they can have whatever they want, but as soon as they fail to do so whatever was given before in order to make their live comfortable is taken away …so much so .. that in the end … they are just sitting in a room, with just a table , chair and a bed and all the gadgets removed.
So .. think about what happened after he left this plane!
What were the things that comforted the satsangi’s most?!
It was the atmosphere, his charisma, the socializing etc etc.
And ask yourself what is left?
NO -THING .. he took everything agreeable with him in the grave.
If a person wants to walk this path these days, there is little fun to be had and those that come because they have heard about all the “good” things of the path will soon understand that it is no longer there.
What remains is the “pleasure” of your own effort
The community, has brought this fate over themselves.
THAT .. is my oppinion ..and i am not to blame for it as I drink coffee to feed my brain.
Hahaha .. when santmat started out in this country, they would meet in well to do hotel lounge. Sit together in in comfortable armchairs, drink coffee and later one would go to an indian restaurant etc.
Later when they had an building of their own, they had an kitchen to cater for the community. After Satsang, a lot of time was spent in socializing. An d the room resembled any canteen in an University.
The same was to be found in Dera that appeared to be more a holiday resort than an ashram.
In early days people were allowed to stay for weeks and even months and they did and from there, when MCS was a away they went to Kashmir and other places .
Naturally, the word spread and created an image of the path that had nothing to do with spirituality
And that has been brought to an end and naturally people grumble ..those that enjoyed it and those that came later, finding an empty table … hahahah
Seen from within the narrative of sant mat ot has to happen that way
The end on gratuite consumer mentality, mental laziness.
Yes .. I too I drunk that goblet to the bottom and enjoyed it ..and …due to my education, character and drinking coffee, I do not grumble .. not at all .. I am grateful for the way it enriched my life in many ways ..things i still do enjoy everyday
Hi Um
You wrote
“It was the atmosphere, his charisma, the socializing etc etc.
And ask yourself what is left?
NO -THING .. he took everything agreeable with him in the grave.
If a person wants to walk this path these days, there is little fun to be had and those that come because they have heard about all the “good” things of the path will soon understand that it is no longer there.
What remains is the “pleasure” of your own effort”
OMG this is funny!
There never was anything more than what we find within, Him.
He said so many times the physical Master is not the Master, just as the physical Satsangi isn’t the actual Satsangi.
He said Christ had to leave his disciples so they would turn their attention within.
Baba Ji just repeated this on YouTube. He said when you get too dependent on the physical presence of the Master he has to leave.
If you don’t see the firehose of blazing light that is his Physical presence then what is there for the Satsangi? And if you do see it then so is the obligation in brilliant thundering beams of light,to find him within yourself. You only saw him as you did because the treasure was always inside you, however b filtered through mine..
Here’s one more thing being around his physical presence makes clear. He is working full time, non-stop to a very, very high standard. And if you want to be him, you will have to work along side him to that same ridiculously high standard, Not a coffee break.
@ Spence
>> What remains is the “pleasure” of your own effort”
OMG this is funny!<<
It might be funny for those that have inner experiences, real, suggested or imagined or due to psychiatric disorders. but those that have been walking the path, without ever having experienced A-THING, it is no.
Reason why many gave up or as can be found here, question the very narrative, based upon how the path presents itself these days.
For those, that were able to to free themselves from the outside presentation, effort is the only thing that remains and the "pleasure" that can be derived from keeping a vow, once taken in better days and contribute for worse.
They know everything you wrote after OMG ..they have listened to god knows how many satsangs, read any amount of books, wrote letters, received advices from seniors, secretaries etc etc etc etc
They, that did not leave … have put away the "carrot" they once followed with heart and soul .. and due their promised duty according they deem fit.
I can only speak for myself that your words, whatever good motivation makes them write here, are for me bone dry and deprived of any inspiration .. you are a good writer, that is all there is to you
I am convinced it doesn't matter to you what I write but it does to me.
Oops should read, ” If you want to be WITH him, you will have to work to that same ridiculously high standard. Not a coffee and cookies break”
Although they do have great tea and biscuits when he visits.
Hi Ron
You wrote
“Whatever conjectures you come up with, they are all attempts to suggest there is something greater than the natural physical/mental organism.”
I’m suggesting the opposite. Put aside all notions altogether. Even when you observe, put the internal narrative aside. And yes reality is far more than your or my concepts.
When you do, how can you then claim to know the entirety of reality? Even the concepts of body, mind, physical and spiritual are all just derivative concepts. Research continues.Science explores! The journey continues into reality. Beyond thinking, emotions and perceptions.Those get in the way of observing. And Being.
You wrote
” Until one sees through this fallacy you will remain in a conjectural world of beliefs, hopes and desires.”
That’s what you get when you live in a conceptual world of body, mind. And notions of spirit. How can anyone really know what these are or are not? We don’t know. But you can live in the now and exchange your awareness of what is within you and around you. The first step is not getting caught up in sensation, perception, emotion and thoughts. And that’s easy because you are already looking AT these things.
“That is not my world; but if that suits you then I’m okay with that.”
There is only one reality, Ronald. When we learn to be in the now there is no room for your thinking or mine. We have to set dualism aside.
Exactly! again. A lot of people have it set aside without even knowing what that means nor do they need to because they are living it.
Hi Um:
You wrote:
“I can only speak for myself that your words, whatever good motivation makes them write here, are for me bone dry and deprived of any inspiration .. you are a good writer, that is all there is to you
I am convinced it doesn’t matter to you what I write but it does to me.”
Your voice absolutely matters, Um. It is your reality. And I accept that.
But your interpretation of that reality is a fluid thing, really, depending upon where you are today. Even our perception of reality changes subtly throughout the day. Most people ignore it.
And since we are all ongoing perception machines, that perceptual mileau can change in a heartbeat. You can see things you didn’t before. That’s not a monopoly of Satsangis, nor even of anyone deeply involved with spiritual practice. Experiencing reality differently, having an awakening where you are actually seeing stuff you never saw before, right in front of you, that is far more common place than you realize. Telling yourself it is uncommon is just a nice way to ignore the work.
Many people who call themselves Atheists have these unexplainable experiences. They just choose not to label them.
But you have a context. Someone taught you that such things are part of a larger reality, and they gave you their interpretation of that reality.
Since your perceptual reality today is based on results filtered by your brain and fed to your conscious awareness, that is extremely fluid. And it changes all the time. The brain gets very good at filtering out new stuff that doesn’t fit the old. And forgetting stuff it has no place in the “Rational” folder to place. Learn to put that filter aside now and then (you do need it to get through the day) and you see new stuff.
I had an interesting experience of this in High School Physics class. Our teacher was demonstrating electrostatic charge. He charged a steel cup, then placed it inside a plastic sleeve. He removed the steel cup and it no longer registered a charge.
Then he placed the steel cup back in the sleeve and the charge registered again! Like it disappeared and reappeared!
He asked the class what happened. Why did the charge go away and come back again?
They were stumped.
I saw the charge scraped off the steel cup onto the plastic cup, so I said, “You scraped the charge off onto the plastic cup.”
He said “You understand this perfectly”
I understood nothing. I only knew what I saw. Big difference.
I realized then that a lot of things in physics were discovered by simple observation. But since it was so abnormal, so “supernatural” instead of calling them crazy, scientists back ended an explanation that works. They stopped and said, “what can explain what I just saw”.
I had no ability for that depth of analysis.
But I was sensitive to what was going on around me. Solid objects didn’t look solid. Current can be seen, subtly. Not an issue of understanding atomic physics. Just an issue of perception.
That can’t be a one-off, Um. It can’t be unique. People make it that way because folks simply dismiss and then develop their brain’s ability to NOT see subtle things. But we are all equipped for it. And meditation is literally the gymnasium to exercise and expand those muscles of perception.
Everyone makes their own choice how to spend their time. This doesn’t need to be any part of your mind. You can just forget you ever knew Maharaji and go on comfortably, being a good human being. It doesn’t matter, Um. You shouldn’t feel anything at all. This life is like the blink of an eye. It’s not the whole story. Enjoy your coffee, friend.
Exactly!
@ Spence
>> That can’t be a one-off, Um. It can’t be unique.<<
You are right it is not.
It is a possibility like winning a lottery. of becoming president,
I have no problem at all that these sensitivities appear in human beings. If only for the simple reason that I befriended such a person. He too said that it was available to all and he is right ..it can befall everybody .. it just cannot be had at will or by effort.
Fortunately we managed to find ways to share a common reality. He never, … said, advised me to do this or that in order to have what he had … we just loved each others company, have walk, a cup of coffee and something to eat.
If he spoke about his inner life, it was because of ME asking him, sometimes even pushing him to answer my questions, otherwise there was no reason whatsoever for him to speak about it.
You see spence, in the twilight of his office, sitting behind his desk, he turned his hands that were lying on his desk palmside down, up side down and in the meantime with a soft voice almost wispering saying … LOOK … i am not sitting here empty handed … why should you go home empty handed.?!
I looked and saw nothing … and even today I took the man serious and on his word …SOOO .. there must have been something to see … and YESSS ..it must be possible for some to see it …ANDDDD … it did ..my dear friend had a couple of experiences where he saw what there was to be seen.
One day .. in that mysterious tone he said .. WHY ..aren't you more receptive.
No problem Spence, I have no problem accepting missing it like missing devotion and love. and accepting that for others that have eyes to see that is an "miracle".
It is my fate ,, fortunately i can write the word envy, know how it is used like words of love and devotion ..but that too I am missing.
That all said … I loved his company, his mysterious voice on a human level .. he did not push, did not question did not argue, gave no advice ..nothing at all he did .. and how much did I enjoyed that…he did not touch me with a finger mentally..he did not need anything from me … freely gave he of his time and attention .. like he did to everyone else … he was never guilty of the "evil of wealth" and I cannot but be grateful to have witnessed it.
I should not write these things here as it serves nobody .. but it is just the reaction on your bone dry words.
The current master in Dera India is living proof that parting is such sweet sorrow and his parting was announced 20 years ago so it’s been 20 years of sweet sorrow, for him anyway. I could die before him and it’s been 20 years of a blast . Maybe Israel can learn from this.
@ Spence
Your words remind me of an incident in my youth ..I do not know why or how it is related to your words.
I always like to sit in dark corners of a church, if they had one, when there were no services going on. Sitting there and “gazing” around, just doing no-thing.
One day, to my surprise, and i could hardly believe my eyes, I saw my dad, walking forward in the middle aisle, bending his knees and sit down.
I never told anybody that I had seen him until our mother suggested that whatever religious sentiments were to be found in her children were not due to him, as he never showed any interest in religious affairs.
That was the moment I told her about what I had seen and added to it ..”look mother, you can bend you knees like everybody else, but you have no idea what kneeling is all about .. maybe… not you, but he was the silent treasurer of religious feeling.
She …answering ..You Um, always answering with your strange idea’s …hahahaha …may the lord bless her
I really feel sad for long time Meditators, who were initiated by either Charan or Gurinder, and did their best to keep the Vows, but have never experienced the promises Sawan Singh said would come, which were Light, Sun, Moon and Star. But all of those Visuals are creations of the Sound, i.e., Christ, Shabd, Audible Life Stream, Ringing Radiance, or what ever those who have heard it, want to call it. I have quit doing all forms of meditation, completely, because there is nothing more for me to search for, gain, or put to test, because I have experienced them all.
I had Christ before initiation, but had never experienced the Star until after initiation , and after years of meditation practice. But the REAL BONUS for me, was the first time I clearly manifested the Bright Star, inside. I know I had that Star, before initiation but it was only by Faith. Not proven by Substance. But now, it has been proven by Substance, which is why I no longer need Faith. I can manifest it almost at will.
“ I Jesus have sent mine Angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning STAR.” ( Revelation 22:16 )
And as Roland verified, “Amazing Grace, how sweet the SOUND.”
Not only do I have the Star, but I have the Sound buzzing 24/7.
Everybody has all that BS in them they just have to realize it. Don’t go thinking you’re anybody special dude. Everyone is special. But in reply to Um I remember in the ’70s in Austin Texas they had meetings at people’s houses and homes in Austin and sometimes had a potluck to accompany it. I was amazed after my 30 missing years going back to Petaluma California and seeing the huge conglomeration of people that just want a religion. It was better when nobody knew about it except a few true seekers because just like everything else ,it’s been diluted. More neighbors more problems. And now there’ll be churches named after each so-called master. And the guru does nothing . He told me himself ” I do nothing” when I thanked him for my inner experiences .So I don’t know WTF what everybody else thinks they need to do. It’s become a cash raising organization that doesn’t even support charity as much as they used to. Yeah I know about all the nice cars parked outside their meetings around England. You weren’t supposed to get initiated for that. I don’t care how detached you think you are as long as there’s poor people you should be giving it away. The name is Ronald, not Roland I’m not your daddy or your representative.
Hi Um
I really love and respect what you wrote. And I honor your vice and experience. It is complete in and of itself.
Ooops.. I honor your VOICE…
@ Spence
Hahaha .. your words could be spoken by a manager who fires someone
We really love and respect what you did for the firm. And we honor your voice and experience. It is complete in and of itself.
We wish you all the best
Hahahaha