Below is another in a series of guest blog posts from Anon, an ex-RSSB initiate. RSSB stands for Radha Soami Satsang Beas, an India-based religious organization headed up by a guru that I belonged to for 35 years, which explains my interest in sharing criticisms of the faith that I also found lacking. GSD stands for Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the primary RSSB guru. Charan refers to Charan Singh, the RSSB guru prior to Gurinder Singh. Sawan Singh was a RSSB guru quite a while ago.
RSSB: The Missing Generation
Over time I observed the attendees of the centres.
Who else comes? Who else goes? What are they like? What pulls them in?
Charan disciples, a Sawan disciple, but GSD disciples? Where are they?
Nobody really spoke about this or addressed this.
Western centres don’t pull in Westerners as Charan did. They don’t pull in the next generation. They don’t pull in the descendants of Charan’s Western/White disciples. They also don’t pull in the descendants of Charan’s South Asian disciples either.
At Western centres there was genuinely only a handful of next generation people who went to RSSB – who weren’t overseas Indians on a study/work visa.
Here’s who I found was there:
GSD devotees
- “Hippie” – grown adult middle-aged/elderly western/white disciple who found Charan when guruship/the Beatles were popular (sorry Brian!)
- “Charan transfers” – grown adult middle-aged/elderly disciples who transferred their devotion from Charan to GSD (south asian – male and female). Out of “Charan transfers” descendants come the following handful of next generation followers:
- “Trustee kids” – young adult children of trustees/elite sevadars with “royalty” status (south asian and female – male kids never came). They were an exclusionary social group which stuck to themselves. They generally did no seva and wandered around with other trustee kids in their bubble. They often sat at the front of karoake sessions and got “front row privileges” due to their “status”. I didn’t know much about them but they had some sort of degree and basically lived off their parents and were really sheltered. (While some people saw this as “benevolent elder with the youngsters” it was really inappropriate for a much older married male authority guru figure entertaining, joking and laughing around with attractive young girls. I never saw anything inappropriate happen but the visual wasn’t right and it had a borderline flirty vibe. Naturally, their sevadar parents loved that their kid was spotted by the guru. This is because RSSB teaches that the guru’s glance is merciful and frames it as “darshan” or a “holy glance” which can lead you to being chosen for salvation. I found the whole thing off).
- “Regulars” – young adult children of long-term sevadars who were “familiar faces” (south asian and mostly female, some male). Often their social life revolved around either attendance with their family, or a close circle of other female friends their age who also were brought by their family too. They had their own life on paper but personally they had inherited their parents cultural/social lives which revolved around extended family circle networks and the RSSB faith network. They often mostly had little to no independence and were quite sheltered. Those who had some independence had a limited amount and didn’t have much beyond a life on paper e.g. a degree/job and a car.
- “Trophies” – young adult children of long-term sevadars who were “familiar faces” and were successful (south asian – either male or female). They had a lot of independence and had real world secular success- but were pulled in via parents. They were well educated, good jobs, wealth, attractiveness – they had stuff going for them and also had lives/circles outside RSSB. I don’t know why they got into RSSB (Keep the parents happy? Indoctrination? Sense of belonging? Pressure?). They had it easy and were “royalty-adjacent” (high ranking seva, elite sevadar access, maybe guru access – but were hated/rejected by the “trustee kids”/”royalty”) but ultimately the real world reputational reality of being associated with the RSSB cult kicked in and they bolted.
- “That Guy” – grown adult men whose parents were “RSSB disciples” and were spotted occasionally (South Asian and male). Their participation with RSSB was casual attendance. They made a casual appearance sometimes mainly just to “show up” – I assume to appease parents. Regular attendance was triggered by wanting to scout for a spouse usually when they were much older. They also had their own lives on paper but had limited independence (albeit more than the girls) and adopted their parents cultural/social lives (grown men with true independence almost never came). They utilised RSSB as a “show of faith” and “wife hunting”.
- “Has A Problem” (HAPs) – grown adult men whose parents were regular RSSB disciples and were attendees themselves (South Asian and male). They were often men who really struggled in the real world. They were framed as “having a problem”. Some were genuinely “special needs” (e.g. health issues, disabilities, neurodivergence, autism, mental capacity) and weren’t able to achieve independence – they came regularly as their parents came regularly and were a huge influence in their life. Some who were less regular but more casual were just unsuccessful socially (he just didn’t have much going for him) and only achieved/realised a limited sort of independence on his own due to personal failings.
- “The Gays” – I did see resident regular gays who came to RSSB. They were south asian young men of the next generation – some were quiet and some were out. Even though RSSB demonises gay people and relationships outside male-female marriage- many out-and-proud gay men are present (whether solo, dating, in a relationship, married). I genuinely think RSSB is having such a reduction in numbers they’ll even go back on who they turned away historically and welcome them back, because nobody else in the next generation is really going. They do have strong independence ironically, yet choose to remain (indoctrinated or a sense of community).
- “VISAs” – the mass of people who do go to RSSB among the next generation (men and women) are often India residents who are abroad studying or working on an overseas VISA. While Charan pulled in Westerners or was a site for South Asians in the West – Western centres are largely “satellite” centres for Dera operating as “overseas” centres for Indians abroad under GSD. I genuinely think GSD (and Gill too) will just operate these as satellite sites in the future. I heard the Western descendent kids call them “freshies” or “fobs” in a derogatory way. They never really aligned with the South Asian Western born kids – although many of the overseas Indian men were keen to form alliances with the girls (hello green card!).
It’s interesting because there was often always a featured question of “how do I make my children come?”. At RSSB there were also general hand-wringing about “youngsters not coming” or “the next generation not going” with loaded excuses of “they’re busy” or “they have to get the partying out of their system” as though RSSB would be something they’d inevitably come to when they stopped being raving meat eating cannibal alcoholics and drug addicts who were partying and sleeping around (which is how being non-RSSB is framed by those within it). They were honestly shocked that they didn’t come pre-packaged with the same “legacy of love” or automatic devotion.
GSD always said “don’t force them, be an example of good behaviour, and they’ll come”. That said – it’s hard to justify this party line when there are children’s books, a children’s area, the understanding that parents will inevitably raise their kids in their faith. Even though RSSB says it’s “a spiritual path not a religion” and “you don’t have to leave your religion to follow this any religion can come” – their spiritual views are different from most religions and you are expected to believe and follow their spiritual ideology in order to be RSSB. RSSB is perhaps realising next generation followers are not extensions of their parents/grandparents who have their own minds and free will – even if it demonises the mind as an enemy of spiritual progress and denies the existence of free-will due to karma/destiny.
I’ve said this before – guruship is inherited, discipleship isn’t.
Anon
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Another spot-on post by Anon, anyone who disagrees clearly is a Hippe or a westerner who has no idea about the internal workings of seva and sangat in the Indian community. In the west there are no youngsters (apart from Indians or NRIs) who come to satsang. Also this rhetoric these Indian uncles and aunties have of youngsters partying all the time is so disingenuous. I’ve never seen any beings more hypocritical than RSSBers.
So thankfully RSSB is dying in that regard. Hopefully once the parents of the young-adult generation die, RSSB will also cease to exist for (the better) good.
Anon has been getting a lot of mention of late.
I think Spence Tepper deserves a thread of his own. He puts in a lot of effort rooting for RSSB. I dont blame him. I never discourage the die hards because they have nothing else to hold on to at this point. Even if GSD turned himself in and the court declared him guilty, they’d call it mauj.
I have seen people very close to / who personally served MCS, were friends with the Mehtas, the Bhatnagars. I am not familiar with those in close circle of GSD as that group is a very a different breed, different not in a good way IMHO.
I think a lot of the people on this blog are also MCS’s initiates or followers. This is the lot I have seen suffer the most.
They’re in their 60s, 70s, 80s or have passed on.
The last few years of their existence were very sad, seen first hand. People like Babani, Godhwani got into legal disputed with RSSB, mainly the head, while sevadars and devoted satsangis lost touch with reality.
I heard from those close to the inner circle that MCS toward the end was not very sharp, Sardar Bahadur’s own son committed suicide, his wife wanted another child and couldn’t, Sardar Bahadur himself had a short stint but of all the masters his life inspired me to come to the path based on what I had in the books about his life.
Baba Sawan toward the end is said to have lost his mental faculty, granted he was 90+ but Kirpal, Bhagat Singh and others were arguing about successorship while MCS wanted to get into politics toward the end of Baba Sawan Singh’s run. Ishwar Puri who was his disciple had moved to the United States or Canada, I dont know, by then. Kirpal was in a lot of pain toward the end, but as expected, the Beas lineage was quick to point out that he suffered because he disobeyed, apparently he had to take on the karma of the people he wasn’t authorized to initiate. But GSD says no one can on anyone’s karma, he certainly cant and wont. Yet another contradiction.
Now GSD was set to bring Shivinder but we all know what happened there, and now we have a IIT, MIT executive suddenly appointed the spiritual master (call that sudden appearance of fully formed species according to Charles Darwin’s theory of modern evolution of species).
But Spencer et al will tell you that’s the Master’s way of getting rid of bad karma, it’s better to suffer toward the end right here and skip the queue to head straight toward Trikuti!
It’s a system of loopholes you cant challenge. But you’ve got to fend for yourselves.
It’s very important to avoid all the preaching from people like Spencer Tepper. They’ve never landed on the moon but will tell you how to land on the moon based on a book they’ve read on how to land on the moon. There is no proof that you can land on the moon or if anyone ever did.
I run a consulting firm.
And this is the fundamental paradox that every advisor has to contend with. On what basis can a minister advise a king, if he has never been a king? On what basis can a management consultant advise a client, if she has not grown a business herself? Why would a wealthy client accept advice from a middle-class financial advisor? For that matter, can a doctor with a cold treat a flu patient?
I am not sure, but my hypothesis is that advisors exist because of wicked problems, as opposed to kind problems. Wicked problems have four characteristics:
1. The rules of the game are not well-defined,
2. The rules can change over time,
3. The definition of success is fuzzy, and
4. The metrics of success are often known only far into the future.
Fundamentally, winners of wicked games are aware that the correlation between their abilities & actions and the success they have had is uncertain. The king knows how much luck helped him become king. The client knows how much circumstances shaped her path to CEO. The wealthy knows how many things fell in place fortuitously for his equity to multiply.
If this hypothesis is even partly right, then the fundamental role of an advisor is to mitigate uncertainty for her clients. Mitigating uncertainty means increasing the correlation between action and result.
And there lies the contradiction: As our ancient and tested wisdom asserts, action is deterministic while results are probabilistic. Can actions of mortals predictably and repeatably impact the probability of results?
So even after years as a management consultant, I still don’t know for sure why the advisory industry really exists. Can one yet to die assure his followers of heaven?
Perhaps the part of the value of advisors is not in their advice but in the transmission or creation of belief and faith that a certain strategy or course of action will work.
There is something behavioral scientists call The Solomon’s Paradox, where people reason more wisely about other people’s social and psychological problems than their own.
@ brian ji
After initiation all are free to live a live according the moral codes of the teaching and practice.
They can if they like go to satsang participate in several and get frustrated.
One of the members of my family used to go to a fair were young mothers can buy and sell stuff for children.
When the door opens they all ran as a greedy mob to be the first to get the best. If there is anything in the world she hates is “fighting” mothers. Time and again she would complain to me and in great detail tell me what all miserable things were done.
One day it said to her: now look … what are you doing there??? … PLAYING with the people??? … or…. selling the stuff you no longer need and find something new to buy!!!!.
Ever since … and I do not suggest due to my words … she has become a staunch young mother that focuses on her own things and is no longer frustrated by the mob that goes on playing their games …haha …meanwhile causing others to be frustrated no longer to be usable as a toy to play with.
Nobody needs to go to satsang and do seva and if so participate in the games played
Why waste time?
Not that I am interested in anybody going there
It is just common psychological sense …to be used everywhere where people gather
Hi Brian Ji:
Since Brian Hines Ji doesn’t run a consulting firm, I’m pretty sure you ain’t him.
Fortunately, my entire career has been in healthcare consulting, specifically hospitals and clinics and I can provide an answer to your question:
“So even after years as a management consultant, I still don’t know for sure why the advisory industry really exists.”
It has to do with catalysis.
Every organization is a social organism, and the interactions of the different groups, factions, teams and levels are a form of human biochemistry. But instead of physical fluid, these interactions take place in a sea of information. Information can be threatening, helpful, inspiring. And that depends upon the inner environment of the individual, the shared cultural environment of the team, department, geography.
What purpose does adding a consultant accomplish? Firms that succeed have a track record: Organization in trouble, add consultant to department A, department A improves on all key metrics while all other 60 departments struggle. Now add consultant to departments B through F, and in a period of weeks they too turn around. Now let consultant work with the entire organization, and in the course a year, without pushing anyone to do anything differently, the entire organization is running differently. Fewer people are dying in the hospital, more people are living and healing through diseases that before were fatal in that community; hospital acquired infections reduce by a factor of 10; debt disappears as margin expands; patient satisfaction scores skyrocket to the top tenth percentile rankings; the bottom line is growing, more patients are using the system, but mysteriously, getting appointments in days instead of weeks.
It’s not about advice, Bran Ji. Perhaps that is where your misunderstanding arose. It is about what happens when people take another look at operations, at each other, at purpose and function, and decide to make things better. Mostly, it is about how people change automatically when the sea of information they live in dramatically becomes entirely different in a moment.
I don’t say people understood this up front. We did also have a guarantee that if we could not change the ten to twelve different metrics they wanted to accomplish, to reach the agreed goals they would owe us nothing. Our entire fee and all expenses were always put on the line, even including clinical outcomes. People said this was insane. They didn’t understand how fluid human understanding and behavior and teamwork is, and the true capacity of the staff.
No one ever asked for their money back. But, and this might help clarify things, we did run out of ideas about half way through our projects. I warned senior executives about this. I would tell them “that is when the real learning begins. That is when it becomes your project and not a consulting project..This must happen.”
PS when the organization really needed change quickly, we didn’t offer any advice at all. But we did train people in how to observe, measure and record; share results, brainstorm, speak out, pilot test, and yes, come together to get behind someone else’s idea with full ownership, most importantly, when it wasn’t theirs or ours. Every hospital of 1,000 employees has 1,000 consultants in the making.
And that is far more expertise than any consulting firm could every compete with.
Leaders didn’t really need to do to much evaluation. All they needed to do was encourage, open doors, allow teams to make decisions, and turn every failure into a new learning experience for the organization.
Hi Spence Tepper,
Of course I am not Brian Hines. But I am very fond of you and my name is inspired from your loving form of addressal for Brian Hines. Well you nailed this mystery atleast.
As usual, you see the world from you own lens and write 2000 words emphasizing your point, from your POV.
Um thinks you have a great command over your written language and she (or he) feels like she cant keep up.
I cant recall the exact quote but Mark Twain said something along the lines of – I wanted to write a short essay, but I was too lazy so I wrote a long essay.
“Writing is easy. All you have to do is cross out the wrong words. Meaning: Clear writing comes from rigorous editing, simplicity, and removing unnecessary clutter.”
You write a lot. A lot.
I do not run a healthcare consulting firm. I work in tech.
But perhaps you should try to see this whole consulting / personal coaching industry to relate to my thought.
I am seeing 25 year old life coaches offering personal coaching services to Csuite executives (those that public companies pay several million dollars); financial advisors that make less than $50k a year selling financial advise or ebooks on how to become a millionaire.
I wont be surprised if you’ve put more time in meditation that GSD and JSG combined.
Just days before his appointment, JSG was at the Dera library asking the librarian in charge about some books and a few things in general. He was known to be member of the family so he obviously got special attention but it wasn’t until a week later that they found out he was gong to be the next CEO/master.
Very intelligent, seems humble, but not the kind who had hooked hair to the ceiling to sit relentlessly in Bhajan.
1) Does it seem legit that he tells people in Q&A that 2.5 hours is a bare minimum? 2) Or for GSD to say all a man needs is one pair of clothes and two square meals?
I am sure you’ll write another essay.
But if you just gave your thoughts on 1) and 2) I’d love your words of wisdom. I do appreciate you, Spence.
@anon, brian ji a.o.
Recently a sociologist published a book with the title that translates in english:
THE CRISIS
OF
ATQRIBUTION OF MEANING AND VALUE
What you all describe is more or less what is there to be seen …. the question is however… how do these things to
If a shop has to close its doors it can be due to many different causes … bad management, illegal actions, etc but also because there is no longer demand for the goods etc
What you people describe with regard to rssb can be witnessed here with regard to the different Christian denominations, especially the Roman catholic church.
Only recently one of the finest places, to retreat for students, academics, journalists, writers and many more, irrespective of their religious preferences if any , a trappist monastery near the Belgian border, was closed and sold … not because the monks did something wrong … but there were no longer enough shoulders to carry on.
It is allright to focus on rssb, and all involved but I would like to ask all of you to step back for a moment an to look around into the world the changes that started in 1968
What do you think the effect has been on the minds of humans by two world wars??
What do you think it did to the trust in the socio cultural institutions? Religion is also an institution.
What do you think what was the effect of globalization??…. the ending of regional securities !!!
Go to a forest, find your self an antique nest, watch for a while the coming and going of the ants … do not forget to sip some coffee meanwhile … than take a stick and stir through the community of ants … and … wait and see.
You will see your world and yourselves running around in a crisis of attributing meaning and value …as whatever you had before … that gave structure and direction is lost.
Than go home have some new coffee and start gazing
Succes !!
And all of the different clans mentioned sit together in western satsang. I started moving around playing musical chairs and sitting never in the same area. I usually sat towards the front with the Indians and yes I could pass for Indian but the reason is I wouldn’t put on the headphones any longer so if I didn’t understand the spoken language I would just go into deep meditation while the speaker spoke. I admit satsang was a great place to meditate but I couldn’t stand the singing at the start. I started waiting for it to stop before I even went in to find a seat. I then stopped going completely because it would be hypocritical of me to attend a place where I’m not loved or wanted. Where I’ve just been lied to or teased to death about the truth of GSD. And now Dumber. No I won’t go to satsang again unless I’m personally invited by the guru or attendees to speak. It’s always the same boring self righteous speakers. Too bad because I could see spirits in the atmosphere and also I got tired of being stared at because of the beard. I don’t want to be accused of being like Babaji after closely observing him. He’s weird.
Once you conquer the much needed mind it becomes your best friend not your worst enemy. So now me and my best friend go everywhere or nowhere together. That’s the simple truth for the need of meditation. It doesn’t take you anywhere that you weren’t already . Meditation is for conquering the mind and so even the guru gets destroyed by his own mind. Except GSD is like Willard the rat king.
It’s not that amazing for satsang to be a church keeping the wild children off of the streets and out of trouble for an hour even if it’s just for the parents. I took my kids to see Babaji and the next time they went on their own but only to see him but something was always off about him and the children never became vegetarian. I know of another satsangi child that committed suicide. Relationships are relatively karma. We won’t be here long enough for any of this to matter anyway. 100 years goes by just like that. You don’t have to believe me for me to be telling the truth. The same could be said about reincarnation but live each day as if it’s your last and one day it will be.
I’ve sat in the Indian women’s section also ( much to the delight of the crowd ) ! I didn’t know you weren’t supposed to. These are the fake rules that they gathered from other religions. They’ve taken the worst parts of the other religions and made a new one from it. The best part were the founders and they’re long gone ( except for Sawan, I’m here!).
I promise to skip over everything said by Sgt Tepper.
“Even though RSSB says it’s “a spiritual path not a religion” and “you don’t have to leave your religion to follow this any religion can come” – their spiritual views are different from most religions and you are expected to believe and follow their spiritual ideology in order to be RSSB.”
I agree with that. RSSB’s stance of “you can keep your own religion” always struck me as more than a little disingenuous. Who ever knew of a Catholic satsangi who still went to Mass, or a Jewish satsangi who kept a kosher kitchen? It just doesn’t happen.
Moreover, all these books that RSSB publishes about other religions are just a phoney exercise of feigned ecumenism. The actual import of all these books is that all other religions are corrupted, and only RSSB has a correct grasp of authentic religious practice.
But to be fair, all religions practice the same variety of parochialism. Some are just more upfront about it, while most play a PR game of nulla salus sophistry.
I agree, RSSB says that all religions are the same but the only problem is that its RSSBs own literature which has twisted and selected passages from other works. I dont think the Bible or the Quran states that a (perfect) living master is needed for salvation. I often listened to the shabds they sing, written by disciples towards their own masters in the past, and think how RSSB people think that they apply to the person on the pandal. Quite worrying actually.
And anyone who argues that RSSB is a philosophy / way of life / path and not a religion is just plain wrong. RSSB is in many ways worse…
Neon, do you think the saints and prophets of yore would recognize the pants that carry their names.??
There are two different teachings …the one of the teacher and the other of the followers … and … those teachings, those interpretations can best be compared with weeds in a crop often even poisonous.
Do you think christ would recognize himself in the pope and his teachings in the word of Calvin??
If you analyze the questions ask you will soon find out that most are intended to make the guru change his teachings according their liking
Allow me to be rough .. for once
Many followers talking about …MY ..guru … think of him as a dog, that is there to please them
And …
They are not even conscious of it and will be offended by what they call rude words.
but upon my long lasting association I have no problem in saying …that …they are not interested in the guru nor what he has to say .. they care a sh*t.
But I do not care as all and everybody has to find out for him or her self.
Know thyself .. is the start if the rest
If I would be wrong by now there would be no religions let alone fractions killing an be killed in the name of their founders and their god
And no kranvir and friends
Would you say that the computer and artificial intelligence is a way of life? Rssb is now just a satellite hub for Indian workers around the planet. I’ve said it before. It’s degenerated into worse than a religion as was said here before. It’s not the sweet Sound of Charan’s voice and the smell of Jasmine anymore. My appointment as Guru would be the only thing to save it in the West. I’ll always have it ruff ruff ruff anyway.
I agree too, it’s very difficult to be a Christian and accept Jesus as one’s personal saviour when the guru is the real saviour in Sant Mat/RSSB. Even if one preaches the Bible, they will need to pick and chose sections that align with Sant mat. I tried at the beginning, but felt there was also going to be a separation (as far as the teachings are concerned) between Christianity and RSSB/Sant Mat.
Well … not that it matters … but christ did not teach Christianity.
We hardly know anything of him.
Do you think that you can gave any idea of the man’s teaching if any or any spiritual practice if any.
Just take the red letters edition of the king James Bible were the words of christ written in red …in total hardly a couple of an page.
It is as with any art etc …if you want to have a real idea of a painting you should have lived with the painter and also be a painter … al others are just consumers that spread their opinion,
It is not at all difficult to combine the two if you understand the two.
It’s been implied that maybe my conversations with Gurinder were in a dream . No , they were real and often in real time. It’s been implied by previous web pages that from the very start he was disingenuous and with that I completely agree. Way too many mind games. He quite enjoys those but regardless of his sadomasochism I always was up front and honest to the point of telling him what I really thought. He’s had 20 years to change his mind though and that’s why I’m talking about it now and kept his secret for so long. It wasn’t even a secret it was so disingenuous and anybody that knows how to hack a phone or computer including mostly the government could read it . At least Trump knows who I am as do other secret society’s , much more secret than rssb , that’s the only delusion of grandeur I have. A legend in my own room and a rumor in my own time!
@ ronald
Making coffee and thinking of what you wrote about the Indian hub i was thinking that the Asians have more than enough of westerners… were ever they came .. welcomed with open arms … they started to infuse changes … so much so that often a caricature was left …not only with regard to spiritual practices but also the martial arts.
Were ever they appeared it all lost its traditional charm so to say.
They do not say it openly but there are several Indians look upon us as fake, not initiated would be people
An in a sense they are right haha
I still consider myself a seeker even though I’m initiated and was approached by the Guru inside during meditation before it got real . The Guru inside will be around long after we’re all gone. They say for every step you take towards the Master, he takes ten towards you. But Gurinder just runs you over. Car darshan. Ha
One day during school a pack of stray dogs gathered by the school yard outside the fence watching the children play. The younger dogs only wanted to teach through the fence somehow and find their true child, the little boy or girl they knew in their heart that was meant for them. And they whimpered at the gate, pawing the gate, scrathing the gate with both front passes as they stood as tall trass they could on their hind legs. The cried out, moaning, yapping, barking, hoping a little boy out girl would come over to them, hoping to win the heart of their own child with their eternal puppy charm.
The older strays, those who had once had a boy or girl, but had foolishly run away, not realizing what they were doing at the time, had spent most of their lives on the streets, being fired scraps, fighting amongst themselves for a morsal, being for food.
But here they just stood back and growled. They growled at the pups, they growled at the children, they growled at each other. And they were proud, so very proud of their freedom, and their poverty.
They had long ago given up trying to explain to the pups the foolishness and pain that having such hope brings. Many had indeed had a home, had owners, had food, but look at them now? And many of their colleagues who had grown old in their human family had died of disease! And even their life on the streets was all the humans fault.
They scorned the little children and did their best to earn the pups, heaping scorn on every human child that came near.
There were three types, I would say, of those street dogs and pups who seemed to hold the deepest grudges against the human children:
Lost Mad Dogs…These were the dogs that had tasted the love of a human family once and lost it through their own stupidity. The were very loud.
Lonely Mad Dogs..These were the older dogs that had never actually had a loving human family. They were even louder than Lost Mad dogs.
Mad Dog Pups…These were the very, very few pups that, having no human, had learned to follow the older lost dogs. They were the loudest of all in their endless grudges against the humans. Every expression, every article of clothes, even the different human hair color was all and each a reason for their hatred.
Why so loud if they had never actually had the love of a human family? They could only magnify the hate in the heart of the street dogs they followed. From whom they had learned.
And there was one lonely dog chasing it’s own tail, and calling it “Love”
Yet as she chased, it kept running away from her, always just out of reach. The faster she chased, the faster it escaped. Then she barked angrily, now thinking love had become an enemy, and bit down hard thinking she had caught it only to bloody her own jaw. She tasted the blood and thought it was good, but she had only harmed herself. Still she blamed her own tail. How could she know who she was? She was just a pup.
The poor pup sat down helpless and in her pain and despair cried out “In being so busy chasing and chasing my tail I forgot to chase after the Lord!” (which is a shabd sang even today) so she sat down and cried and wept and then a kind majestic man with a beautiful flowing beard approached her and she thought “who carries this divine fragrance?” and it was the guru head of rssb and she said “will you heal me?!” and he said “no because I cannot use my physical powers or you’d follow me blindly I will leave you in this state and do nothing but I will heal you…. spiritually” and he said softly “radha soami satsang seva vegetarian meditation celibacy teetotal karma spirituality soul shabd simran bhajan darshan” and patted her on the head before walking off. And the puppy said “what the fuck was that useless shit I need a goddamm vet” LOL
I followed Grrr ender and now Tej . 😂
And then one day a very enlightened noble good boy puppy said “i feel a deep pang of loneliness for something and I must reduce my bad karma – i need a north Indian punjabi guru!” and then he refused all dog food given to him unless it was vegetarian, stopped running with others dogs to meditate 2.5 hours daily, and he went to seva and satsang instead of standing at the fence.
https://youtube.com/@anandmurti.gurumaa?si=6O8xez1wKrBa09KK
“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they’d all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.”
― Douglas Adams
These would be Church of the Churlish members.
You don’t have to be here or read this. You can leave and go to the RSSB centres and be happy. Set better boundaries.
Hi Hey
You are absolutely right. Neither of us have to be here. Unless, wait a minute, in a 100% deterministic world we have no other choice, right?
Here is the boundary my mom taught me:
Your right to take a swing ends where my nose begins.
I am ex RSSB on an ex RSSB website. I am here for ex-RSSB content.
You are clearly active RSSB member,here on a website you know is ex-RSSB content by ex-RSSB members, by your own choice, seeking this out repeatedly, knowing what it is daily, and getting mad and arguing with ex RSSB people. Nobody asks you to do this and RSSB doesn’t tell people to do this either. This does come across as mentally ill behaviour, RSSB or not. You can go on the RSSB website to find what you like. If you’re choosing to come here and be mad on purpose and you’re choosing to be a victim, this is like a personality disorder
I just read (for the 2nd time) Ram Dass’ autobiography, Being Ram Dass.
Dass studied with or personally knew most of the stars in the 60s and 70s Eastern spiritual arena. (Curiously, he never seemed interested in Sant Mat).
One thing stood out in my reading: Chaos. Almost all of Ram Dass’ adventures with gurus were like his sexual activities. Brief, numerous, unsustainable, and unsatisfying.
Maybe that was because Ram Dass approached everything as an avenue for getting high. Dass would likely term his journey as a noble search for God, truth, and love. In that way, perhaps he wasn’t much different from many of us.
Something else struck me about Dass’ spiritual life. He never had any enduring meditation practice, nor did he keep with any Buddhist or Hindu moral precepts except briefly. Ram Dass ate meat, took LSD, smoked pot, and had (by his own admission) random gay and straight sexual encounters in the thousands. What I found really interesting is Dass’ explanation that all this profligacy was enlightened behavior. “My guru made a remark once about balance, and therefore….”
I’ve also read the autobiography of one of Ram Dass’ gurubhais, the musician Krishna Das. And again I was taken aback at a tale of material and emotional chaos. Another bro is Bhagvan Das, and like aforementioned, and despite really practicing Hinduism and Buddhism, he comes off way worse than both of them.
So I have to wonder, what is a spirituality that doesn’t make for a sane and sober life? Does a spiritual path really deserve the term “spirituality” when it’s little more than self-centered adventurism wrapped up in romantic god-love?
Ram Dass was interested in Kirpal Singh and even went to Sant Bani ashram and met with Russell Perkins, but was put off by the idea of initiated versus non-initiated (in group, out group).
Where there is a true diamond, you will find many, many fake copies.
Where there is an original, you will find copies.
The problem is that the fakes don’t know they are fake.
And the one’s calling “Fake, fake..” can’t see the real ones.
But anyone familiar with spirituality down through the ages, across all times and geographies, does see similar results of a life of inner devotion, lived with vows that assure little harm to ourselves and others:
“The song of the flute, O sister, is madness.
I thought that nothing that was not God could hold me.
But hearing that sound, I lose mind and body,
My heart wholly caught in the net.
O flute, what were your vows, what is your practice?
What power sits by your side?
Even Mira’s Lord is trapped in your seven notes.”
“The Flute” from Mirabai: Ecstatic Poems
translation by Robert Bly and Jane Hirschfield
Mira asks the Holy Word itself what are its vows and what is its practice. Mira had vows, and practice.
And it is no coincidence, I think, that she acknowledges that listening to the Audible Spirit (Socrates also called it the Flute, as did Rumi) can drive one into madness. It is by guidance and discipline that such things as Spirit, Light and Sound do not.
And wisdom on the part of Atheists to avoid such dangers (though they exchange a short term safety for a long term personal appocalypse).
Though for lovers, there is no other life. It was never a choice.
When you’re lying down on a hospital gurney in your last moments, ask the doctors for a holy secret flute.
Get real.
Why would my last moments be any different from this one?
Lucky indeed is the one who finds a physician who has such a flute!
“last moments”.. Is that actually a thing?
Every moment was my last moment. It’s gone. So why spend time there?
How about this moment? What to do in this moment?
That’s what I ask all those who carry a grudge.
What are you doing with this moment?
Your last moment came and went. It’s gone. Forget it. You aren’t remembering it right anyway. Why obsess on it year in and year out?
Why obsess about anyone else?
I think you can’t be fully in this moment, a complete human being in this moment holding a grudge from moments long ago.
I think you need to let go of your grudge against Brian and exRSSB people. They left. You’re continuing to seek them out, exRSSB people, on a dedicated space by exRSSB people, with exRSSB content, getting surprised and mad and angry as an RSSB person. This comes across as fixated obsessive stalker tendencies, personality disorder, mental illnes. You can’t act the victim when you consciously choose to seek out this website knowing what it is – again conscious victim mental illness signs. It is also delusional to think you’ll suddenly see “I love RSSB” posts here – again delusional mentally ill behaviour. And plenty of pro RSSB content is publicly available to make you happy, you are choosing to do all this.
Even if you are just someone who genuinely wants to reconvert ex-members magically or silence them completely – that’s grandiose aims and also mentally ill behaviour. I am concerned.
It’s over for gurinder and rssb. There is no generation stupid enough to go into this death cult. Only the dumb sheeple who are totally brainwashed and wasted all there lives in the sad cult remain. Little do they know that they are praying indirectly to Lucifer and satan, the light bearer. Gurinder will be locked up April next year which he deserves as he’s a disgrace to humanity. He and his sons will suffer a lonely life of pain and be the laughing stock of humanity. It’s over gurinder – face the music.
Why April as opposed to any other month?
Because: https://churchofthechurchless.com/2026/09/rssb-guru-has-reason-to-fear-the-forensic-audit-required-by-the-delhi-high-court/
Whether he is defacto guilty or not doesn’t matter…. I.m.o. …the interests at stake are so high that they, all involved and many are, cannot afford any negative court rule.
Why imo?
Because the ruling of the high Court is to find out where the money is … at least that was the explanation by AI of the verdict of the high court.
Justice to be done has many possibilities .. the interests of those that have negative sentiments towards rssb are the least important, certainly those psychological and religious based