Below is another in a series of guest blog posts from Anon, an ex-RSSB initiate. RSSB stands for Radha Soami Satsang Beas, an India-based religious organization headed up by a guru that I belonged to for 35 years, which explains my interest in sharing criticisms of the faith that I also found lacking. Seva means volunteer service.
Here’s a couple of previous blog posts dealing with selfless service:
Is seva, selfless service, possible? Why direct it toward God?
What is seva in the RSSB organization?
RSSB: the “selfless service” paradox
RSSB teaching says that the guru never leaves you and you will pick up where you left off again in a next lifetime. RSSB teaching states that each lifetime it gets easier and better more favourable circumstances to follow RSSB. RSSB also says that over each lifetime we accumulate impressions or sanskaras which stay which us and condition us. For example (used as a popular example) if you have a bad aversion or hatred towards someone in this life, they may have perhaps murdered you in a previous life.
RSSB says that we have a maximum of 4 lifetimes to achieve salvation through our own efforts by following RSSB. When people ask what happens if you don’t make it within 4 lifetimes, the Guru just wryly smiles silently (from previous satsangs). This does insinuate a loss of eligibility for salvation after a set time period. It also creates a sense of urgency and panic because they often say “who knows if you’re on lifetime 1, or 4…” which the guru himself has said. It is framed as the ultimate and only way to achieve salvation in this way.
RSSB suggests that any element of exposure to RSSB just plants a seed on your soul somehow which continues to grow across lifetimes. However they contradict this also and claim it is not the only way to reach your end goal (Sach Khand/heaven) and there are other ways (I personally think – if reincarnation is real and I get further human lives – that my impressions from this life and aversion to RSSB would continue and I wouldn’t be on this path in the future).
It can be difficult for believers to truly believe that there are other ways to God away from RSSB – because the guru is framed as a messiah figure and that he alone is the tool for salvation. The guru is framed as the bridge or only way to access God the creator, who is distant from you, due to your own bad karmas and bad destiny, after reincarnating through many lifetimes, and doing bad things. However the guru is perfect and is a saint and has achieved god-realisation and has instant access to/from heaven at any point – and he can take you to Sach Khand directly – however also you have to be worthy enough for this – and you achieve this by getting the guru’s grace through a concept called “seva”.
The RSSB concept of “seva” or “selfless service” is where people do unpaid devoted selfless service to the guru without expectation of anything in return, but the guru has the power to access heaven and you don’t and he will take you there – so you do it for the implicit hope of generously donated salvation from him specifically. In doing so, it isn’t selfless but transactional.
The paradox? This isn’t a selfless service though, because in reality, you are doing it in exchange for the hope of the guru saving your soul and taking you to Sach Khand/Heaven. It is still…transactional. I do wonder if anyone would continue doing seva/unpaid labour for the guru, if there was no salvation promise underneath.
If the guru doesn’t take you to heaven – would you still do your seva?
If no – then it isn’t selfless service and so you don’t get taken to heaven – because it isn’t selfless.
If yes – then it’s selfless service (but he isn’t taking you to heaven anyway, as the first part sets out)
Food for thought.
Anon.
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Hi Anon,
From my personal experience, I have to admit that all your observations and input on this church of the churchless blog posts are true to a very high degree, specifically about RSSB as an organisation and social community. I take nothing from you, and your phenomenal dissection of the organisation and it’s culture.
That said, also from my personal experience, I would like to say that there is a mystical dimension to the teachings and practice, which one has to experience for oneself on an individual level, through conscious effort. This mystical aspect of the path may reveal itself spontaneously to each individual attempting to practice the path and the teachings in different ways. And, it will be different for different individuals. Regardless of what the books or theology might say or have said. And, these mystical dimensions cannot be proven to anyone else, but can be a direct experience of the individual attempting to walk on the path.
That’s all I can say to you.
Congratulations for seeing through the social and organisational limitations or constraints of the RSSB as an organisation and a social structure.
But if you can remain open, to the core teachings, especially the meditative and contemplative aspects, you may very well still be in for an awakening.
You will need no burden of proof for anybody else, as such mysteries may only reveal themselves to you, through effort, practice, and grace💖🙏✨
Radhasoami-Ji to you brother, and thank you for your clear, thoughtful and insightful contributions. With much and sincere appreciation ✨🙏✨
Thank you😊
Selfless service is quite likely a misnomer. On self-inspection, it can be seen that whatever we do is done for a reason, if not for a reward. A host of psychological and chemical causes can drive altruistic acts. Even so, being a natural act, altruism underlines an instinct that is generally good for the species as a whole.
But I would say the type of selfless service being described here has to be for ‘self’-interested reasons. Even sitting in meditation, for whatever reasons, whether it is for health or spiritual reasons, involves a hope, a desire; otherwise, one wouldn’t do it. There seems to be no such thing as behaviour that isn’t, in some way, self-motivated.
Of course, this brings in the issue of free will. Are we freely giving ourselves to service or meditation? I would say, why meditate (including for mental health reasons) if it were not to attain something? We should ask ourselves: do we meditate (or pray) out of fear of not achieving our idea of heaven, or to achieve a state where the everyday turmoils of life cease to affect us?
Being human primates, life’s realities will always involve pain and suffering, joy and happiness, birth and death – that is the inevitability of being living creatures.
Agree that there cannot ever be any truly selfless service as everything we do has to have a motivation of some sort behind it.
I do think there are degrees of selflessness where one seva is done with more altruistic motives than another. Another thing rarely mentioned on this blog when it comes to seva is the aim of personal development, I.e becoming a better person by working and sharing with others and also being a form of self-expression, an opportunity to exercise either physical or creative skills into an activity with others with similar aims in life. Although commendable, I don’t regard these reasons as inherently spiritual, just good things to do.
Thank you Anon for your post on this topic.
Trying to talk the multitudes of millions out of this , their religion is useless but to give tips for leaving is seva for the Real Master Inside. The one that was always there that you were just supposedly connected to by ” initiation”. But I don’t see how someone could connect you to something that they aren’t connected to themselves. That’s a sin addled society and the paradox is that the supposed seva the current gurus do as guru is for themselves too. The greed is a complete loss of innocence. You probably gathered that you aren’t making enough money there. Those tips are from the new Indian equivalent of Heloise and Ann Landers and come from professional teachers. But the multitudes just want to be in the same boat as the rich gurus and they never will be. Like John Lennon said they’re telling you still that you can be like the folks on the hill. Working class hero. I wish everyone knew just how unspiritual Gurinder is. His new replacement is nothing like him. Smart and tall not dumb and short
In one of my hundreds of messages with Gurinder I told him that I heard he spoke four different languages and so how do you say stupid in each one. Book knowledge. Useless book knowledge. In India education is a sense of entitlement. They put on that intellectual act and these people are not intellectual at all. These two bozos running the Dera. Pseudo intellectuals. Gurinder asked me one time if I ever read Nietzsche . I told him I’ll stick with the path of the Masters. All of this fakeness was the precursor to AI. And if you look at all the AI images of the two bozos on YouTube and social media it has very little to do with spiritual reality. The students are just learning how to make money online. And pretty pictures.
Another direct quote from GSD to me is ” I really need this job.” But he never explained why. Was it for the cost of cancer treatment? He never really told me why he really needed that job but he’s sure kept it for way too long. It threw me off balance that he was even referring to him being a guru as a job. It probably is a job for someone that has no natural inclination.
I’m hearing The Sound right now and I just woke up without even meditating I’m buzzing and let me tell you I just want an apology. I’m tired of hearing the sound !
Well well ….
Haven’t you never done something because you liked it ….????
Do you always do things because …
” you have to” ???
Seva, is or can be, an psychogical eye opener…as it offers all the opportunity to do things for an OTHER motive than one uses to do at home or at work.
Finding it … it opens a door not only with regard to sant mat but life in general.
How one labels that new found .oxidation and what meaning and value to attribute to it .
As long as you are convinced that ” you are there for the path” you are not going to get something out of your participation.
Any path is there for you
If there is a paved path you can drive your vehicle on it an go somewhere.
Naturally if I drive to Paris I am forced to use the high ways .. you can label it as being “forced” …but if your attention is to go to Paris to meet a friend it is very helpful.
Probably you are also working for a boss to make a living.
I was taught that I was a self employed business man that sels his labor to make money
It is a mental attitude … to see others as boss
If you would have worked in a traditional service or kitchen brigade of a restaurant under full pressure … you would understand all these psychological things.
There is little room during urgency to be preoccupied with petty ego considerations.
It is and was my understanding based upon studying the narrative and listening to mcs about walking the path, that I came to understand that … sant mat masters need not to be mystics.
There is very few information available to the public what the initiation of an human being as master entails. In some branches there is some information to be found … but rare and difficult to get
There is the physical master, the Astral master and the shabd master …. and all are projections.
The sun projects on the water, and the water on the wall … what you see on the wall is not the sun…there are smooth walls, rough walls … etc .. you name it.
These are all simple things repeated over and over by mcs … but that is not what people WANT to hear … they want a fair on a carpet … a PERFECT master … perfect according THEIR imperfect understanding
No need for inner experiences, not even a calling or pull from within … nothing of that all is needed … as what is offered, what is on the table, what can be experienced with the senses and digested with the mind is all part of the human public domain … a psychological affair.
Ultimately … any path, any practice what is said and written about it is just an …INVITATION !!!!!
That invitation can be handed in some words or academical and eloquent words.
And … the invitation has no power… it is not a key to anything
Well it is certainly useful as an issue to pass your days in this saloon
I do know a thing or two about when a straight businessman has to take drugs and immediately starts spilling his guts and lying because Gurinder is famous for agreeing and going along to get along but he’s a compulsive thief and a liar. The reason that I kept giving him hundreds of chances was waiting on the impossible , for a narcissist to change. I don’t care about mental attitude and I don’t care about seva and I don’t care about meditation. Just give me some truth.
At a live in person satsang while him ( GSD)flirting with the girls and I mean girls not women. While him flirting and teasing with the girls I heard him say that maybe the advantage of meditation is that we know what happens when death occurs and people who aren’t on meditation don’t.. easy for him to say hard for him to do. If that was the only advantage a narcissists could get out of meditation well then good for him, hurry up. Good riddance!
When young my dad would send me to some shop to collect what was needed to make ice cream … he never said to interact with the shop owner others than on the level of buying and selling.
And so I did everything else in life
Later in life mcs would write me … to that extent in his words saying … do not get emotionally involved in these ties nor the persons involved … do your own duty.
Not always that easy but nevertheless good psychological advice … and … for free
Grateful when he’s dead and I can be Master right . He probably called me Jerry Garcia not any other Jerry and not my real name because I called him a pig and so he was saying that I was fat and had a f***** up hand. When you achieve the no name region these names don’t mean anything. Just ask Eric. I told Paul McCartney ( just so nice to say ) that Gurinder and I were brothers and brothers fight. So this is nothing new I thought everyone knew this. Gurinder said ” you don’t know what I’ve been through !” And no I didn’t know about that financial scandal in his involvement in shady activity. I didn’t know but now I know why he didn’t want to tell me what he had been through. Seva on the side , and girls too !
One thing me and Paul in fact many things me and Paul could agree with and Paul is always right by the way. Paul McCartney. He’s always right but he’s not a perfectionist he’s just always right. Anyway one thing we could agree with was that Babaji was a terrible communicator and public speaker . Try telling that to a hypnotist collector. Babaji is a little scaredy cat that has to hide behind a desk and a computer and an audience and if not that then armed guards. Pathetic. I’ve heard a private interview with GSD and a one-on-one is so disappointing as not to even be desired.
I can talk or text like this because I’m NOT emotionally attached like I was in my last life. Holding up his letters on my deathbed ? Not going to happen. Wouldn’t be prudent. I’ll follow the 1000 points of light not some conehead. As Jaimal he left a lot of unfulfilled desires and he was never anything like me. I don’t care about duty
Selfless service is common place, but you must look for it. Baba Ji often says that when you try to calculate the gain you get, you get nothing. Maharaji teaches the same thing, that thinking you get any benefit personally for helpful acts yields zero benefit.
So, how do we act selflessly?
That is what meditation accomplishes, raising consciousness so that we are not operating within the limited bonds of this fragmented ego. That is a life beyond and outside of this one, a much larger life. Being part of that we never act alone, but realize we are, with our Master, through love, merged into something much greater, universal brotherhood.
Baba Ji said recently that the point of Seva is to kill the sense of “I”, “Me,”, “Mine”, not inflate it.
To lose yourself in Service is to find a higher way to exist, not as this tiny ego, but as part of all life. Then the work is done. There is no life or death.
As Bullah Shah wrote, “Now I am not begetting (making any new karma) and I was never begotten”.
In spirituality, you go where your attention goes. It’s easier than you think, in theory. But the mind refuses to budge from its position, it’s opinion, which we hold so dear, but which is worthless.
Focus on helping, in service is a great tool to support your meditation. Putting your mind purely on helping others is a great vacation from the burdens of the ego.
Anon, all this was also explained in the very Satsangs you attended.
How was that lost to you, in your grudge?
They don’t listen to satsang , this I found out early. They are just hypnotized by the gaze and the beard and the ceremony . You’d get more out of listening to me. True. When a person with narcissistic traits holds a lasting grudge and seeks payback, it is often described using the unofficial term vindictive narcissism. Is it wrong to enjoy your own writing? Most things aren’t narcissism so I didn’t even know what a narcissist was back when I was talking with GSD all the time. I had to learn what it was the hard way. I thought I was talking to a Master as a disciple but actually it was neither. It was God talking to himself.
Grudges rob us in many ways, and that includes what you see here in Anon’s past, unable to understand the very teachings of selfless service, which the holder of the grudge cannot comprehend.
A grudge reflects the ego. Selfless service reflects ego less conduct.
But, with work, any grudge can be overcome. And this opens the door ťo the pure joy of selfless service.
Here is an article about that by Dr. Kevin McCoy in Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/complicated-love/202310/breaking-free-of-grudges
Having worked for many years in restaurants and hotels … I not only earned my living but it was also a free psychological education in human behavior ….where one is well advised not solely to focus on what is made to be seen by all involved , guests, staff, owner colleagues etc.
There are many different motives to come to eat … personal and those that are ulterior.
One can go there just to have some food and then continue ones walk through life.
But there are many more things to experience that have nothing to do with the maintenance of the body food.
That is the category … playing …playing with food … playing with fellow human beings.
They’ll give a satsang telling you that your family relationships are all selfish while calling themselves father and the horrific one Hooserji. Now I have read Sigmund Freud and I’ve learned a lot from observing. But remember rssb is not a social charity it’s a spiritual charity and so they want you to feel sorry for them for having all that money. Because you’re the one doing all the giving and whatever you receive is just a reflection. You know, like a penny for your thoughts. Now we know what GSD is thinking while we’re criticizing. He’s thinking I wonder how my Bitcoin is doing . Don’t romanticize what a guru is from something you read. Unless it’s something you did.
You know, those links to advice on getting over one’s grudges do not just apply to Brian Ji and Anon, dear friends.
When a person with narcissistic traits holds a lasting grudge and seeks payback, it is often described using the unofficial term vindictive narcissism.Key Concept is it’s a dichotomy because I’ll never get the apology that I’m owed because it’s from a narcissist. It says in the book Legacy of Love that a master knows experiences and feels the full range of human emotions. That made me happy when I read it and I wasn’t even a master yet. Like now but I had been one before. My karma was doled out by the Inner Accountant over the course of thousands of lives. Up the chain of the wheel of 84. Now that was a very good year because I drove a Mercedes then. Does that help guess who I am ? 1984 . A song by Paul McCartney and Wings .
If you knew that your effort would leave you in the exact same place you were, but would indeed help someone else, would you do it?
Happens all the time through love. When you love someone more than yourself, they are your entire consideration. They are all you are thinking of. Your love for them merges you into them! Then you no longer exist! You were never born, and death doesn’t exist anymore.
You are free. That is the secret of liberation, through love.
That is the secret of raising the soul, and leaving behind the ego, even death itself, through love. You leave behind the dead ego for life through selfless love.
True love does this. To sustain it, to be in that love day and night is the practice.
As Mira said to the Shabd, the Divine Holy Word, “What were your vows, what is your practice.?”
Vows kept and steadfast practice are the path of love, and liberation, selfless service to Love itself.
You’re describing a very high state, one that is indeed found rather hidden in the teachings. Not dissimilar to what Brother Lawrence describes in his ‘Practice of the Presence of God’.
He’s describing s*** he never experienced. Useless book knowledge from a useless blogger
Well, just because someone does something or writes something one doesn’t like, doesn’t necessarily mean they bare a grudge. You cannot know another’s motive.
One can only surmise, or guess their reasons – and perhaps in that surmising ones own grudge toward that person may be revealed.
Hi Ron E.
As a behaviorist, a grudge isn’t always revealed in how someone says they feel, but how they behave.
Over years of time a grudge may no longer elicit any visible emotion. It is evidenced behaviorally in the addictive persistence of placing and heaping blame, and continuing effort at injury to the same individual or organization, holding onto and nursing the same complaints decade after decade, compounding them with fresh complaints, without having any actual functional relationship anymore with the person or organzation, nor influence over the source of the complaint.
Yet they persist in active blame placing long the anger has faded until it becomes hard wired into the personality. The complainer actually becomes their complaint. Their identity is in part defined by it. Very sad.
This can include soliciting others in this habitual activity, which only hardens the grudge.
Why would someone continueto do this?
It is now part of who they are. Unfortunately, this also takes up valuable space and time, so that they are often blind to their own transgressions. The grudge is a way to escape from oneself.
Liberating is the soul through love is a much better way that actually works.
You can’t get free digging your ditch deeper and deeper gear in and year out, even if others, escaping their own issues, cheer you on.
I’ll bet you’re helping more than I am. Let’s take a vote. I had no motive except I like to write and I like to tell the truth and that pleases me to tell the truth. So yeah I’m a true artist that writes for himself. But I had a whole series of books published using that method: The Path of the Masters and My Submission. What has Gurinder written ?? He had to get a school boy to even hack everyone else’s computer for him. Talk about a sheltered life.
Philosophy of the Masters. The RSSB dictionary encyclopedia and Bible I wrote. No brag just fact because actually 99%.9 don’t care . English is my main language now and they shouldn’t even be speaking Punjabi in Texas anymore. English is the international language. There are 12 strip programs for workaholics.
It’s been a long time since I’ve read my books but I know the writing style is the same as are my thoughts on 12 step amends and living in America compared to living in India.
And here’s the clincher. The rssb gurus are so surrounded and protected by human bodies and in the middle like a donut they’re surrounded by armed guards to protect them from the human bodies. And in the end the only thing they lack is any self-respect because nothing can protect them from themselves. Complete phonies. They’re so worried about outer appearances that the followers have had to create AI images of the gurus actually meditating. Don’t they understand that the guru teaches to do what they say not what they do . I’m sure the fuel expenses that they spend on their private jets and helicopters could feed a whole village for a week on what they spend in an hour. Complete phonies rssb has become around the world. It’s all a big joke. What will they think of next. They won’t even take the same helicopter anymore. I heard they’re so sick of each other they’re like Cream breaking up.
I did what you should do. I meditated away from the meetings and meditated at the meetings because they were so boring. I wasn’t trying to correct anybody’s grudges or their love . Look we have a narcissist as a master so we can have one as a health provider too. He’s up there like the tree of Life .Why don’t you make like him and leave. After he tries to correct everyone he’s back off into his private billionaire world. And you have your computer.
Hi Ron
The idea of freedom isn’t to have.
It is to be free of having.
Around 500BC women in Babylon would perform selfless service by becoming temple prostitutes. They were serving Ishtar by having sex with strangers fir silver coins. Men got secual satisfaction The coins went to the church. The women, who knows!
Great. Now apply the same adolescent moral evaluation to everyone you meet today.
The local merchant, the doctor, the policeman, the teacher, the fireman, the journalist, and your mother.
“YOU’RE ONLY PRETENDING TO CARE ABOUT ME BECAUSE YOUR TRUE MOTIVES ARE SELFISH!”
Welcome to the universe — every action of its countless sentient entities is in some way selfish.
So what? Knowing that even the best of us act out of self-interest doesn’t address the fundamental existential problem of our existence in a realm of suffering.
Spence,
It seems that you are identified with your idea of Love. Not only identified, but obsessed.
You are still identifying, and not free it seems.
Hi Tej
It is interesting the praise you heap upon those you agree with, and the scorn that you direct to those you disagree with.
And yet it is just how we all work.
I am very much attached to the notion that Love itself exists. Love is a power, indeed the greatest power of all. Because all things rely upon it for existence, though they are often twisted by circumstance and desire, attachment.
Yes, we both see from our psychology, don’t we, Tej?
Unless we rise above all that and see from a more universal perspective, where your opinion or mine become obsolete.
That is the experience of true love, higher love.
It happens in meditatation, when everything else evaporates.
And upon that love, I can’t say I know anything. But I understand. And am happy not only to know nothing, but to become nothing, a part of that. What a wonderful paradox.
I always invite you and everyone here to join me there. It’s within.
Of course you are free to remain separate and have an individual opinion. Even a grudge. But no inner flight. You can’t carry any baggage.
@ mr tepper
There were days that parents
, teachers etc would use physical means to correct the children … days everybody understood the difference between physical correction and abuse.
These days all physical means of correction are classified as abuse.
However the need to correct has not disappeared so the question arises as how do they do it these days.
Well … you can do but you should be aware that if you do so you will cause tremendous pain to your parents.
Counselors psychotherapists can give you many example of this mental stick to correct. … and yes that invisible stick can be used in an abusive way too
Hi Um:
Correction doesn’t require any emotion at all. It’s just feedback. But accepting that feedback is our duty.
We immediately accept when we understand it is given for our benefit from someone who loves us. But that is often unspoken. So, maturity then is needed. At some point that maturity of understanding kicks in.
Those Winter Sundays
Robert Hayden
1913 –
1980
Sundays too my father got up early
and put his clothes on in the blueblack cold,
then with cracked hands that ached
from labor in the weekday weather made
banked fires blaze. No one ever thanked him.
I’d wake and hear the cold splintering, breaking.
When the rooms were warm, he’d call,
and slowly I would rise and dress,
fearing the chronic angers of that house,
Speaking indifferently to him,
who had driven out the cold
and polished my good shoes as well.
What did I know, what did I know
of love’s austere and lonely offices?
Of course you are free to remain seperate…. but no inner flight
This formula is used in every message of yours
It is not the summit of kindness
No thank you . I’ll hold on to my grudge dearly and here’s why. A grudge is rarely a productive long-term emotional strategy, but what we call a “grudge” can be justified when it serves as an essential boundary to protect yourself from ongoing harm. When dealing with a narcissist, what they label as a “grudge” is often not bitterness at all—it is a defense mechanism rooted in pattern recognition and self-preservation. BAM .
If I can’t get an apology then all I can do is protect myself from further harm by holding a grudge. Or at least what a narcissist calls a grudge. I call it spiritual boundaries and preservation not of ego but of spirit. Soul survivor.
Ron, hatred may be the reason you finally set good boundaries.
But it was never necessary, and once those boundaries are set, entirely burdensome, no longer serving any purpose.
A grudge is baggage, and that prevents inner flight, true freedom.
Oh get over him . You’re the only person I hate but you’re harmless so I don’t need a grudge for you. Anyway I’m a perfect mirror so whatever you recognize in me is your own problem. I owned my problem with Gurinder so why don’t you own yours with me . It might make you jealous if I hated him and I wouldn’t want to do that.
I’m 100% sure GSD has the disease of narcissism and it is a disease and he can’t help it. I don’t throw that term around loosely. It’s like making fun of someone for being mentally retarded or to go on about it. It’s a disease. I don’t know anyone on this blog well enough to know whether they are narcissists or not but I do know Gurinder well enough to know he is. And it might answer some of your questions about him if you know this about him. So people that aren’t narcissistic seem very odd when they try to imitate a narcissist. It could come across as a variety of other personal problems. And I admit that my problem with G Dhillon is personal.
I’ll tell you the difference for the last 10 years up until 2 years ago or more I was saying this same kind of stuff along with photos on Facebook and sometimes Instagram. But since I’m no longer on social media and you can imagine what they thought of me there where most don’t know the subject. And they aren’t interested in the subject at all. That’s why I like this blog and focused on it. And my next step down from here is the land of permanent Bliss. I can’t wait to have a face-to-face private meeting with everyone including the narcissist. I’d like to take a picture of his ashes while everyone moans about it. I’ve never made a dime off of the internet. It’s all been seva. I say things like I really need this job because I know the narcissist is reading it and I took what little good I could find in him from him. Stealing from a thief and a taste of his own medicine.
When it comes to loving something or someone greater than yourself, there is always that moment when you must decide: My baggage, or this Love?
No carry on baggage or checked baggage (including grudges) allowed on that flight.
Where you are going you won’t need any of those things again.
The question becomes a gateway: “me” or “Y O U !!”
Hint: When facing Love directly “Y O U” is the magic answer.
All clothes must be shed.
The price of intimacy.
Well worth it.
Die to Live
Every day, preferably before breakfast!
I don’t see you getting over yourself for even a second so your little plan must not be working or you’re higher power isn’t real. Which is it ?
Anon,
It seems that with your brilliant mind and senses you have cracked the shell of RSSB with your cogent observations, now all that is left is for you to be light-hearted while continuing to put in your efforts towards the path, and experience the subtle energy that is at the core of the path. This very subtle energy that is the essence of this mystic path is not necessarily perceived through the ordinary mind and senses. The mystic path can be so subtle, one needs to be open to it, and to catch it through receptive observation in one’s daily life. Though sometimes, one can even feel it or experience it in different situations or settings with our ordinary mind and sense perceptions.
As someone once said, “spirituality cannot be taught, it needs to be caught.”
You’ve come so far, don’t let the outer shell discourage, have a sense of humour and dig a little deeper, probe a little more. Do some more research within. Now, is the time to experiment without any preconceived ideas, notions and expectations towards the path; as they have all been shattered 😆
Try to dissect what’s at the core of this path, that’s my challenge to you, if you are willing to accept it!
Than you can try to write about all the subtleties of this mystic energy, which is at the core of this path and it’s teachings.
Radhasoami-Ji 😊🙏✨
I’m sorry, Tej:
The core of the path is the Master. No getting away from that.
It was Maharaji who said the path must be caught, not taught.
Why the Master? Because for one thing, a person must confront their own ego, their own sense of being insulted by having to follow someone else. A book you can reinterpret for your own convenience.
But a Master, no way to misinterpret, if you are active on the Path.
They represent reality, spiritually, and that forces us to look at ourselves, to realize our own baggage.
Not a bowl of your mother’s pudding, to quote another Great Master.
But any experience of Love, any healthy relationship teaches these lessons, the lesson of overcoming self, the lesson of selflessness.
It is no different in spirituality.
Nothing can be accessed without Master.
Zero, zed, nothing. Just illusion. We can access our own illusions, or we can give them up and ask for His help.
Very simple reality.
Very tough to live.
Spence,
The real Master is not the physical, it is the creative energy or Shabd, as Baba-Ji often points out in his Q&A and Satsanghs.
Tej:
Neither is the physical Tej the real Tej.
The role of the Master is the core. When you look at him you see the physical. When others look at Him they see the Shabd form. Pure Shabd, the Source.
But of course, each person speaks from their viewpoint.
All the teachings of the Saints speak to the necessity of the Master. And why? When you refuse the Master you choose your ego.
To let go of the ego, you must submit to a higher authority, not your own.
To Follow a Path of spirituality is to humble oneself before that path.
To follow the path of the mind is to proclaim we know better than the Master. It is the idol worship of the mind. And sadly, that is a fairly water tight prison.
It’s easy to understand when you see it.
And impossible when you don’t.
He understands the concept just like I understood the concept of college while in the first grade. But he’s not College material , to use an analogy. Many graduates weren’t either.
Who’s talking to you ? You’re like vomit just puking up stuff that you’ve read. I’d be shocked if you’ve ever heard the sound or seen any light during meditation. I’d be shocked. Prove it
Placenta . I am God your Master !!
Hi UM:
You wrote:
‘Of course you are free to remain seperate…. but no inner flight’
This formula is used in every message of yours
It is not the summit of kindness”
Kindness and niceness are two different things.
Doublet binds
The path of love is a paradox.
Not always easy at all.
Easy, ease of use is a popular standard, comfort our standard, and then, feeling most comfortable, we are shocked to realize love will take away everything else, everything false.
Why isn’t it easy? It becomes easy. But there is always a period of struggle, for every new thing.
In performance improvement we had a guide: It takes 85% more effort to make a 3% improvement in performance.
But that 3% could make all the difference.
The “love” of a missionary … if you do not follow my path the worst can happen.
Or
If you do not buy it now and you Come back tomorrow it willen we gone
Or
Online one item us left
You see …
‘Here is where the philosophy of others needs correction or editing.”
Yes, Um, I see it.
You provide some good examples.
But you could also provide an inclusive example, too, where we can all come together on a common platform.
I say “Let’s find common ground”
and you say “but not on your platform….and not on my platform. My platform is just right for me, but your platform is wrong for anyone.”
Making wrong is part of the problem, IMHO, because it is set on a platform of right or wrong.
Why do we do this? It separates us, and like the grudge, or as a grudge, defines us.
But in Love, all that goes away. Where Love is there isn’t room for both. Just One.
So, if you hold an opinion and anyone disagrees, well, they are wrong.
And if anyone holds their own opinion, because it isn’t yours, they are also, in your view, wrong.
See how “making wrong” works?
Some Zen Masters have used it to open our thinking, but it’s a limited approach. It doesn’t help raise anyone, it just helps us give up our opinions.
That’s good as far as it goes. Then we need to step forward into the Truth, then thing that is common for us all, that connects us.
I don’t sense any love from you so where did you read that?
I agree but the master isn’t a two bit lying scumbag. It’s not a physical entity. So if being off the path means ignoring two fancy businessmen in Indian garb then I’m off the path. It was helpful to learn something new about what a grudge is and glad to say now that I have one as a defense against a narcissist. Against all narcissists. May you spend more time in Paradise than I did. It’s like they say there’s no way anyone is going to talk you away from your Kool-Aid master. And I’m not going to. He’s not offended by us so why should you be. ” Try hating me and see how far that gets you ” that’s another snide aside quote from your Jones. So no it’s not hate it’s a defense mechanism called boundaries. A narcissist might call a grudge because they aren’t affected by grudges. They’re set for life and you aren’t.
It’s interesting to note that GSD still holds a grudge against MCS for appointing him master when he wasn’t. But the new generation is willing to sacrifice. They’re the professional preachers that Maharaji warned us against. Internet influencers . That’s the new professional musician too. I’m amateur. I’m just slogging my umbrella. Don’t say I didn’t warn you when your train gets lost.
Mr. Tepper i do not tell anybody that their platform is wrong …. why should i ?!
If they tell me how beatifull it is and how happy they are … what do you want me to say ?!
So i will not react beyond lending my ear and a smile
But if they use it as missionaire … that is all different affairs.
The missionair might think he is acting out of love . .. but that might not been experienced by these that are the victoms of his love.
Hi UM:
A missionary suggests what people should do, like using a timer or some such thing for their meditation.
But a lover of God simply shares their own perspective, with the understanding that it is just their opinion.
I do have a view about Love, God and Grudges. I love to see true appreciation for all that we are given every moment. And I do have a reaction when I see people taking exception to each other. They should not. We do not have time here for that.
As soon as we can eliminate all that from our thinking we are one step closer to our own freedom. So, I’m not selling that, because why would I sell a product that already exists? It doesn’t need any of that and never did!
The Saints are part of the natural system of personal transformation and liberty. That system already exists and doesn’t need to be sold.
But if you ask someone with a grudge why they hate such a system, what could possibly cause that, then I think it is perfectly normal to also hear from someone who loves that system, and all systems of reality. I would not want you to speak for me, nor I to speak for others.
But grudges, that I tend to call it out as I see it.
Life can be difficult, and we all can harbor ill will for one reason or another to others. Happens all the time in this polarized political environment.
But Love, and particularly, Spirituality is so far above such thinking and reacting that it doesn’t hurt to have someone point out once in a while, “Hey, this isn’t all there is. What you see is a sewer system, and there something far greater. Even here, yes there is beauty. But within, a beauty that gives its entire self to you 24/7, and the cost is zero. You will find it irresistible, once you see it.”
Not to sell, just to reflect another person’s view.
If you want to buy, you will have to find your own Teacher. RSSB to me is all that. But YMMV.
Of course the missionair is convinced that he acts out of love that … he has to!!!
But than it matters how he acts it out.
Passive? … active? … forceful
It is not up to you to tell people what should and should not … imposing on others what you have in your loving mind.
Um
Everyone here has their ideas of right and wrong behavior.
It is not in anyone’s hands to know more than their view individually unless they wish to.
Then they may glimpse things from a different place.
Otherwise it is just a market place of ideas or critiques.
My view is that a higher view dors not have the hard boundaries on opinions we see here.
Science, experience, education and new information can entirely reverse a deeply held opinion, and show it as nothing more than a form of prejudice, even superstition.
So long as it is merely opinion, how is it different from superstition?
And if that is so, why hold so tightly to it?
The psychology of the grudge does help explain these odd mental attachments to what amounts to superstition and prejudice quite nicely. There is a much dogma in philosophy and atheism as in religion.
But none in spirituality, which offers experience, not explanations, justifications nor superstitions.
And the path of love beautifully explains the solution.
As long as you’re always right
Id like to quote Mean Girls and say “Stop trying to make grudge happen! Its not gonna happen!” 😂 you keep trying to use it as a backbone of your argument but no one has a grudge here. This is simply a support group for people who left cults to remind them they arent alone. A place for the disillusioned to share their experiences. A place for people who prefer proof over fantasy. The only one who has a grudge here is you. You dont have to be here. Go to the center and add this time to your seva that you love so much. But you just cant seem to let go and accept that there are people out there who dont think much of your godman. So who is the one with the grudge? On a final note, your “church of the churlish” pun is painfully unfunny. You can do better.
Hi Sucks
Grudge has already happened. Grudge happens when anyone makes the same complaints year in and year out about a past negative experience they don’t like but can’t let go. Because the past is fixed and can’t be changed you give it infinite power obsessing over it. It’s an addiction.
You say this is a support group, but how can enabling a grudge do anything but deepen it?
You give the grudge too much power enabling it.
But you have all the power. You go where you place your attention. When you move on, you never look back. Life is too compelling and wonderful to let the past rob you again and again.
This compendium of complaint is beneath you.
That is support.
A support group should be all about moving on.
Not dwelling in the past.
By holding a grudge you destroy your own freedom to defame what happened, own your power and enjoy living in the now.
But because grudges are addictions people can’t let go without help. Hence the beef for a real Church of the Churchless, not A Church of the Churlish. . They deny, they accuse and blame, enable and obsess.
But, if you understand that today you are the only one who can change your view, then you don’t mind the work. Because that is your freedom.
No one here is free, stuck in the past, making the past their theater.
How to let go of the grudge?
https://www.headspace.com/articles/letting-go-of-a-grudge
If you want this to be a real support group, do the work.
Once one understands how we humane are psychologicaly conditioned … it is a matter of a couples of days … if not it might be a long and Costa affairs.
Your admonishment is at the leven of telling an alcoholist not to drink
Agreed. But we all have our addictions we are working through. It’s easy to point the finger at others. However, real advice shared from our own struggles to overcome our own many failures is like a seed planted.
The secret to being effective is infinite patience, and sharing what we are learning as we continue to struggle with our own issues.
You’re the one that comes on here holding the same grudge. If someone asks you to stop you just do it more like someone that didn’t get enough attention as a kid or got dropped on his head by his mother . I noticed you don’t always mention me as having one because I don’t. My ordeal wasn’t one experience. My ordeal with Babaji happened before I was even initiated and continued for years until I found out what a narcissist was. And I put a stop to it. And it’s really none of your business unless I finally want it to be . You are like many on the path fighting and scrambling over each other to get closer to the master when it’s not even a physical form. Too busy correcting everyone else to your own narrow standards and beliefs. Couldn’t care less about fellow mankind if the master was claiming to be a master but isn’t. It’s your perception that counts and you’re the one that’s got it all f***** up
Moving on will never include going back to rssb in this lifetime or the next
That’s just how they get from following their perfect example. It’s dangerous to follow a narcissist and then try to act like him while not knowing WTF is really going on. I rather enjoy the phenomenon of the Alamo. Sergeant Tepper is surrounded on all sides on this blog but yet his immaturity shines through along with the stubbornness that he calls love. I wonder if he’s really ever had love. He’s here screaming out for it like a little kid. I guess he’s not getting enough at home or at satsang. Just from the churlish 🥰
Did you skip your meds again? It’s getting to be a pattern.
Sucks
I’d like to quote the song “You make me feel like Halloween”…
“Are you the poison or the cure?
I’m not so sure.”
I’m worried brother about your confrontational behavior. But then I have to remind myself this isn’t behavior this is just some scribbling by an idiot and that’s not a personal attack because there’s so many . The nicer you are to a narcissist usually leads to them viewing your kindness as a weakness to exploit rather than a gesture to reciprocate. And the thing about a narcissist is that no matter how many times they look in the mirror they’ll never see it. I am that mirror. Tell me what you see. I’ll tell you what you are
Mike Spence, my friend, i get what youre saying and all your analogies (boy do satsangis really love their analogies haha) but how does one let go and move on with their life when people like you come after them and demonize them? Youve been drinking the kool aid far too long to realize that for some people, walking away from their faith, especially a tight knit cultish type of organization with fanatic members carries some trauma with it. For some people, their parents or families cut ties with them, friendships are ended, they are threatened, guilt tripped or verbally abused, some feel like theyve wasted their youth or years of their lives. Thats what this is for, to make them feel like theyre not alone, and reporting the shady wrongdoings of the organization or guru isnt coming from a place of anger, its pretty much just telling the truth from an unbrainwashed perspective to give people validation in their decision to walk away. Especially the weaker ones who are easily manipulated, and full of self doubt. Its definitely a support group. And honestly theres a lot more freedom and positivity here than ive ever felt attending any rssb related event or even discussion, what with the unecessary strict rules, the anal sevadars, the secrecy, (my god, the secrecy) and the fanatcism. 100 percent pure negativity.
Sgt Tepper is sick that’s for sure. The diagnosis is now out. Save your breath. He’s a narcissist. That is a subject with grudge attached worth studying. Narcissism . My faith was based on one man. A master narcissist and walking away was easy but when the war is over is when the pain begins. Thanks, Sucks
When they asked Maharaji in that video if there’s ever a mistake made in initiating someone like a wrong person and he hesitated before he answered , probably thinking about two. My nephew and you ( looking at the questioner ). But now out of the hundreds of thousands and millions initiated ,two mistakes are just like a little coffee stain. Paranoia big destroyer.
It’s gotten ridiculous the way they use the helicopter and the jets but mostly the helicopter to come down on the crowd like the spacemen did to the Egyptians. ( Or the gunners did in Vietnam).They really think that they’re gods in a fiery chariot. At least Gurinder thinks he is the one. Coming down to rescue them. And in private he can’t be. I’ll tell you who gets psychoanalyzed the psychos . Try hating me and see how much I can get away with. I never get tired doing the Great Master’s work!
If they were football players they’d be kicked off the team for showboating
Wow my meditations are so good and deep and successful that I must be doing something right. But this writing isn’t meditating and I would be rude to my reader to meditate while writing because I’m thinking and meditation doesn’t include thought. So in the end to find a common ground yes we need a master but no the rssb gurus are not Masters anymore. I suggest you find one who is. I would worship everyone as greater than me if I was going to worship . I think my 6 hours of meditation today was enough worship that I don’t need to do anymore.
Typos. If 6 was 9 I don’t mind .
” You ain’t spose to love me ” GSD
Hi Anon, I agree with much of what you say. However I worry that you may be using this forum as a form of therapy, de-programing or ego boost. My advice would be to listen to some rock n roll, read Balzac and have a break. Otherwise the forum becomes a form of control over you just as RSSB was. I am speaking from a place of experience, love and genuine understanding. Best wishes.
What’s wrong with therapy, deprogramming or ego boost when needed ??? I don’t mind personally if this blog is used for that. Why would you mind I don’t understand. And I don’t understand why anyone would worry.
If it makes anyone feel better I just woke up this morning and I’m not hearing the sound. Just a faint barely do I hear it while typing. The fact that I was getting these private messages from Babaji for years while sometimes attempting satsang I’d feel like I had a big secret and I can’t tell anyone at satsang what it is. They wouldn’t believe me for one thing or be doubtful and jealous if they did and for another thing they might not believe him anymore. And I had better keep everyone believing him if I want to take his place like he said I was. Now this could be for my own humility but once it becomes an embarrassing strain then I do need a ego boost. You’re not going to get an ego boost or even a congratulations from many other satsangis. As was said before they are too self involved. If they only knew how their lovers were cheating. Anyway I said I do use this blog for therapy. Do you know how much gas cost and how much I save not having to see a psychiatrist like many should. I’ll be glad to deprogram anyone.
Only a complete idiot would let words spoken or written have any control over them. My own words don’t even have control over me. It’s all Sound! The wall of Sound! ” Think for yourself because I won’t be there with you.” George Harrison
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.” -Buddha
I am concerned that you are finding more love here on this blog than you are attending satsang. This IS satsang. Anything a perfect Master like Brian says is Satsang. You don’t need a church at all. I liked the rssb satsang in America better back in the 70s than now because they were small gatherings at people’s homes. In fact I might go back to that during the week. I’ve got a car and a full tank of gas if anyone wants a personal darshan and I’ll bring the car so you can have car darshan too . Just ask for my number I’ll give it to you but you better be serious. I’m in Texas heading to New Mexico if that helps you. I can go to California I can go to Nashville. I could go to New York City but I’m trying to pace myself. I literally don’t like to fly unless Angelina Jolie is the pilot. But no she’s not with me this trip. She’s dealing with her own narcissist problems right now. We live in parallel universes no longer worried about the fiery pit of hell.
Are any of the true believers that sneak on here like they sneak around everywhere else pretending to be humble. Are any of them reading this? You betcha. But can you see why Babaji loved talking to his dearest one Sawan ? True, his letters were not meant for everyone , just me but after Sawan passed, rssb was hard up for more reading material. Charan did good but I was his tudor. Tell me what has Gurinder or Jaimal ever written except personal letters ?? The local Mrs representative was wanting proof that I had gotten one and asked me to show it to her ( at the time 2005 she said Babaji never writes anyone back ) and so I offered to her then she changed her mind and believed me. You have to call the bluff of the megalomaniacs of the world. But if I eat anything evil would you please shove your hand down my throat.
“And if I swallow anything evil
Put your finger down my throat
And if I shiver, please give me a blanket
Keep me warm, let me wear your coat” the Who, behind Blue eyes
It’s very important to create patterns and good habits to take the place of chaos and bad ones. The good news is that even though the sound was faint this morning it was coming from my right side and is still there. It’s always there, it’s only our attention that waivers. When your intentions are pure is when you have inner experiences like hearing the Sound. Supposedly Jesus didn’t even want opiates while on the cross even though he was offered. Keep your eye out for my book coming out soon. And Other Things I’ve Held Inside For So Long
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/hc-allows-radha-soami-chiefs-helicopter-to-land-at-college-ground-for-rs-1l-payment/amp_articleshow/131075001.cms
I don’t know where he gets the money since he retired two years ago. The first time in history that an RSSB Guru retired from his duty during his own lifetime. There’s something like unrefrigerated dead fish here on that chopper that stinks to high heaven. While Pepe Le Pew the other Guru smells like a skunk. I don’t buy into this One business or dialogue. I buy into the Zero.
Found this , and rightly so ! In recent years like maybe the last two when the BS got so thick only a Texan could wade through it in high waters and come out smelling like a rose.
While Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) does not release public census data or official membership audits, widespread public discussions, forum spaces, and investigative reports indicate that the organization has faced a notable wave of disillusionment and members leaving.
Several overlapping internal and external factors have driven this trend over recent years:
Time to beat a dead horse. Charan Singh said around the time I was born that spirituality was moving West. He also said that America has had perfect Masters and saints forever but it wasn’t like India. Here they never paid much attention to people like that , he said, whereas in India they’re famous for it. Now India is living on reds , vitamin C and cocaine . She lost her sparkle you know she isn’t the same. You’re not going to get much better support than from a perfect master. They don’t have those in India anymore. Only here and now. Hello Dolly it’s so nice to have you back where you belong. I am like dripping water on a rock , little by little I’ll get through your thick skull.
As far as I’m concerned GSD is like the wicked witch of the East and now he’s got these narcissistic monkeys that he’s turned out to do his dirty work. He’s trained them well. Either that or just by emulation they’re trying to be like him not realizing he’s evil (that’s the most succinct word to describe a narcissist ) .And his ball less nephew won’t even stand up to him. He’s been paying the bills for so long for his education and his brainwashing. I could give a f*** about a diploma , yours or anybody else’s. And I don’t get pissed, I just get even. What kind of saint am i? Your worst enemy. Or your best friend. Now I’ve got another book we can just snip from these comments and I’ll split the proceeds with you because I’m not donating anything to religion anymore. I’ll pay $100 to anyone who wants to get initiated that’s how I’ll hand out money. I’d like to see Pepe Le Pew compete with that
Narcissists admire another narcissist because they see a reflection of their own inflated self-image, confidence, and idealized traits in the other person. Pepe Le Pew is code for Jasdeep and Jasdeep is code for Lord knows what.
This is Brian’s site and I’m going to let him keep all the change in the tip jar because when I play they put in large bills and I just let the band keep it for letting me sit in. It’s the most money they’ll make all night. Some pretty lady will always buy me a falafel sandwich if I’m broke. I don’t need , want nor desire your money. That’s the business of the East Indian ,the filthy rich Asians that ruined America and made it a third world country.
Hi Satsang Sucks
You wrote a very sincere comment. It explains clearly the trauma someone can go through when they leave an organization that their family and friends have been part of for decades.
You wrote of the broken relationships, the threats and the guilt.
And then you tried to explain how this justifies bashing that organization or its leader, and therefore justifies Church of the Churchless.
Emotionally, it may feel good to see the cause of your trauma receive some public scorn from others, and then to heap your own scorn upon them also now feels right.
I can see that.
It feels like a safe place.
It is often the case that bullies underwent quite a bit of abuse as children.
But it is also the case that bullies were often raised in wealthy homes with the full love and support of their parents.
But in both cases no boundaries were set. That is the common theme.
And without boundaries everything is painful, and we are very vulnerable.
And so everyone who didn’t please those bullies became the cause of their angst and anger. And the target of their blame.
Because they had no self esteem to put things into balance. No personal accomplishment to bolster their unprotected identity.
No sense of personal responsibility and no capacity to live differently than those around you. To be at peace with yourself.
Because they were victims.
I only suggest that none of this helps.
What helps is understanding that your worth as a human being cannot be set by anyone else with any credibility.
You set it. You must.
If you set it based upon something noble, that is also going to be bullet proof. And not so easy to upend.
To love something or someone more than yourself can do that.
But if you base your own self-esteem on how well you blame some other person, that has to be fed to survive, and it will never feed your soul.
I’m not defending any organization. But if someone has been through what you claim, they need to make their foundation not upon derision, but just the earth that is under their own two feet, upon which they stand.
That has nothing to do with any organization.
Set your boundaries, and own your own values for yourself, not in contrast to anyone else, and certainly not dependent upon them.
If your family reacts, don’t you react.
Let your confidence in right action lead them along.
A similar thing happened in my family. When I was five years old my family left the Jewish faith. This was 1962.
They loved Judaism, but they were shocked by Zionism.
At first family members and relatives reacted, but it didn’t phase my parents.
They believed, as did our Rabbi, who was fired for proclaiming that the real Israel is within, and not a single drop of blood should ever be shed over a grain of earth.
It didn’t phase him. He moved on. He didn’t blame anyone. He wasn’t living for them. Our lives weren’t defined by our rejection of Zionism. We went on to other, better things.
You can too.
My strength doesn’t come from hating Zionism. I understand why they went there. I love all people. I understand their situation.
My strength comes from within.
That’s where the attention belongs, where the strength is.
And then no one can disturb the peace that comes from within.