Below is another in a series of guest blog posts from Anon, an ex-RSSB initiate. RSSB stands for Radha Soami Satsang Beas, an India-based religious organization headed up by a guru that I belonged to for 35 years, which explains my interest in sharing criticisms of the faith that I also found lacking.
Anon makes some excellent points in this post.
The Beatles went to India in 1968 to studyTranscendental Meditation with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. In “My strange RSSB initiation story,” I speak of the tenor of those times and how I became involved in 1969 with a crazed Greek yoga teacher — which led in a weird fashion to being initiated by the RSSB guru in 1971. But that was then; it sure isn’t now, or any time in-between.
RSSB: THE GODMAN MOMENT
RSSB is a self-titled “spiritual path” or religion or cult (depends who you ask) based on the concept of a spiritual guru. It started in India in the 1890s in Beas in India’s Punjab. RSSB expanded its centres globally and especially in the West under its previous guru Charan Singh in the 1970s.
Here’s the obvious issue: godman or guru culture doesn’t exist in the West. Godman culture or guru culture doesn’t really land or track outside India. The concept of a guru or godman doesn’t really exist in the West anywhere, and many are actively wary of it in today’s age. Nobody in the West has a guru or a godman. Westerners do not subscribe to this.
RSSB DISCONNECT
It’s something RSSB doesn’t really understand – outside India, the concept of a godman or guru just doesn’t exist. Many people outside that location or time period simply won’t connect to the concept of a guru or a godman. While RSSB promotes guruship as a universal truth in their literature (most of it being written in the 1970s or just after) – it doesn’t track if you came after 1970s or were born/raised outside India.
The godman or guru hasn’t really lasted or sustained as a concept over time in the West. It didn’t really take root in the overseas soil. The period in the 1970s when Westerners flocked to Eastern gurus and godmen was not a permanent moment. It was a moment in time, and a cultural trend which didn’t last. Godmen and gurus are not in the Western world and Westerners don’t flock to Eastern gurus. Like John Travolta’s white pantsuit – it was a trend, a fad, a moment in time – but summarised the 1970s as a celebration in time. A fun fashion fad, not a forever fixture.
RSSB IN THE WEST
Many of the RSSB’s vows and laws are fairly standard practices now in the West. However this wasn’t due to RSSB’s efforts. This was just the world, and specifically Western nations, being super health conscious through dedicated public health efforts, and through globalisation. This wasn’t because RSSB took root in the West.
Nowadays, most restaurants have a vegetarian or vegan menu, most places have mocktails or non-alcoholic drinks, most people are drug-free, most people are monogamous, most people will take a yoga class, most people will download a meditation app or mindfulness app. Many Western people do follow some of these to some degree – all without RSSB.
However one vow doesn’t land – following the guru. People in the West may respect priests and mentors. Sikhs in the West may respect their guru lineage, but they see their modern leaders as priests and nothing more.
Even for those raised in the RSSB environment, this is probably the only example of guru/godman culture they’ll have, and it WILL stand out as an isolated anomaly.
The term guru is used loosely in the West to describe non-spiritual experts who are really good at something, e.g. a style icon being a “style guru” or a tax expert being a “tax guru”, but the concept of a spiritual guru just doesn’t exist like it did momentarily in the 1970s – almost half a century ago.
RSSB BLIND SPOT
There are some things which were successful imports in the West. One of these is – chai. Every Starbucks globally has chai latte on their menu. Every major coffee shop has chai on its menu. Even a small artisan coffee shop has chai. Dedicated chai coffee chains have opened up. In the West, chai has been a successful import.
There are however other imports that haven’t taken root in the West. One of these is caste. Within India, caste was (and maybe still is?) an issue. However this simply doesn’t exist in the West. There is no framework for this.
RSSB’s structural blind spot is a category error. They genuinely believe the godman/guru concept is like chai— something that everyone in the world would want to taste (a “universal spiritual path” which “anybody can follow”). In reality, Godman culture is like caste—a hyper-localized social cultural system that completely fails to translate outside its country of origin India.
The “Godman” was never going to take root long-term because Western society lacks the cultural architecture to support it. RSSB and similar movements historically promoted themselves as universal philosophies meant for all of humanity, transcending race, culture, and geography. But as the Western “fad” recedes, the reality sets in: these movements are deeply tied to specific South Asian cultural geography and history. Without that specific cultural soil, the plant cannot survive. When the fad ends, the movement shrinks back to its original cultural borders.
RSSB WESTERN EXPERIMENT: RESULT
RSSB likes to talk about itself being a spiritual experiment. Using their own terminology, they have been running for 50 years in the West. Here’s the results of the experiment:
Western/white counterculture seekers of the era when godmen/gurus were having a global popularity moment are gone. They may frequently practice – quietly – but they are largely absent from the population (if they remain), reducing numbers.
RSSB’s original Western anchor were Indian immigrants who were raised in godman culture. While they are here for now, in time, the ageing elder disciples will pass out of the population, reducing numbers.
Western-born youth (both South Asian and white) have no organic connection to godman culture, because it doesn’t exist in the West and the godman/guru imported concept didn’t survive beyond the 1970s. They are already causing internal panic as “The Missing Generation” and a reduction in numbers. The handful that go are merely going “with” their grand/parents will cease – once there are no parents to please, further reducing numbers. (RSSB will chalk this up to lots of things – but nobody in the West is following a guru or godman except the Indian-born – which they haven’t realised yet).
Overseas Western centres outside India are currently kept on artificial life support by a steady influx of immigrants on student and work visas from India, where there is Godman culture. This is a fragile unsustainable pipeline which won’t be forever. This leads us to a key debate being discussed throughout the Western world right now…
IMMIGRATION CUTS
This is bigger than RSSB. As reported in global media, Western governments and the western world generally are actively discussing immigration practices as an ongoing public debate. It appears that there is a desire to cutdown on mass immigration or significantly reduce immigration among many Western countries. The significant portion of the RSSB population (temporary immigrants from India) is a fragile pipeline and won’t be sustainable, when this does happen.
As the Western world increasingly cuts back on immigration, due to various reasons, RSSB will lose its core Western sangat – which is made up of overseas Indians mainly. Once immigration cutbacks are implemented, this will significantly impact the RSSB Western population. When that happens, as rising maintenance costs and real estate costs continue, RSSB centres will eventually shut down and it will revert back to being a Dera in India – a spiritual path only based in India.
It’s highly likely this will be a possible reality in terms of “What’s Next For RSSB”. One of the additional options is that RSSB reverts to its original position as a Dera in India – once elder Indian migrants pass on, the next gen largely doesn’t engage because there’s no godman/guru culture in the West, and Western government start making heavy immigration cuts.
Anon
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Thank you Brian and Anon for this post. I do think however, that the decision to seek out a spiritual master is a very personal one. I also don’t think RSSB originally sought to expand globally. Centres opened as a means to provide support to individuals in other countries outside of India – not everyone has the funds to travel. In my country, we have no Indian immigrants. We have a large (largest Indian population outside of India), but they have been here for centuries. In other words, Satsang is not attended by Indian immigrants. Additionally, there are individuals (myself included) who sought a means to evolve spiritually through actual seeking rather than as the result of a trend or fad. Those people happened upon the RSSB teachings and those resonated with them. The commercialisation, if one wants to call it that, and how RSSB and the guru at its helm has devolved to what it is today is a sad and unfortunate, but separate matter. In my country – that is why RSSB is now a red flag to those who question, discern and think. It really does depend on who you are and where you’re from.
Not true and factually incorrect. This inspired me to write another post setting out the reality.
My personal take on all this, and the many posts that Anon has shared is that, Bhakti as a practice, and particularly the Guru Bhakti tradition and culture is not meant for every individual.
That said, there are many other paths and traditions for different individuals with different inclinations.
Different medicines, for different kinds of patients.
There’s Gyan Marg, the path of knowledge.
There’s Karma Yoga, for those who are inclined towards helping other beings.
And many other kinds of paths and practices from various cultures and traditions ✨🙏✨
You wrote . . From various cultures etc
Some plants allow for replanting elsewhere in another climate without effect but many do and some cannot even survive.
Think of a simple tomato . . It is culivated in colder climates under glass …they look like tomatos but they do not taste like these cultivated under the sun and are called ” Apple of gold”
The need for religion and spirituality is not every where on earth the same.
Just think for a moment about the changes and developments that took place in 2000 years .. you will soon find that they were all climate and geography bound.
Many developments could not and cannot taken place with regard to temperature and the leven and hardnes of the underground
The development of the golfstates is only possible at the cost of huge investments.
They spend money to the amount of space activities…in recreating a natural habitat..
In a sense it is squandering human resources
Transmit this idea on spirituality
Interesting personal view. But not the RSSB teaching. RSSB says you need a perfect living master /guru to teach you how to get to heaven/sach khand and the RSSB guru is the satguru/messiah. They say RSSB meditation which is “surat shabd yoga” is the best and quickest and most reliable way to achieve salvation. The latest Guru Gurinder changed the tune verbally in satsangs/sermons saying “there are many paths to God” but this is a new take.
Yes. They all exist for a reason. They all reflect something of the divine. They are all onramps to spirituality. Different strokes for different folks.
So true, the Dutch Sangat headquarters is about 70% Indian. The remaining 30% are the 70’s generation, just holding on, or should I say grasping on, not wanting to truly admit this Godman thing was just a faze in their life’s.
The initiation was not a spiritually binding agreement. You are not forever bound to this group. That is a tough one for a lot of us.
For those Westerners who have achieved inner travels, I say, at what cost? In previous posts, I have given my view at the costs. In my view the costs are not pretty. They are monkish. You consciously let go of responsibility of your obligations in this world. That is a big price to pay.
Hi Martin,
Can you share some of the costs here that you mention about here, that you have shared on previous posts. I must have missed them. Would be interesting to read about them, if you can find it and share it please.
Well … ask the priest that celebrates your so loved Latin mass if the baptism can be undone.
Ask a Muslim theologian if the oat taken can be undone.
Ask a lawyer if you did sign a contract if it can be undone unilateral if there are no articles in the contract that allows it.
you can think what you want but the narrative will tell you it cannot be done.
Grandma …warned us children not to sell our souls … to …moenen de duivel
“At what cost”. Wow.
I genuinely can’t reflect or “total up” or “add up’ the total cost to me personally. I think my brain is genuinely protecting me from doing this.
If one wants to know and understand something one has to let go of focus on activities and the effect these activities had and have on those that engage in these activities an the mental, intellectual and emotional, effects.
If a stone is thrown in a pond it causes ripples and the ripples moves the reed f.e.
There was a “before” that is responsible for everything….the one that throws the stone, what stone, where and when
In the throwing the ripples of the “before” come together and causes the action of throwing the stone.
The ripples and even the action are soon dying out and become part of history but not its effects.
The more and the closer one focuses on rssb the more one loses sight of what is going on … how it came to be and what effect it will have.
The world is changing feathers and everything and everybody that it contains.
Hahaha some will regret the old feathers …but they are no longer part of a living body.
Do try to find the three part documentary titled: ” a world of faith” that is broadcast by ARTE on http://www.arte.tv …then you will witness how it looks like holding on dead feathers.
Most probably you won’t …. hahaha
As you are fascinated by looking at the act of throwing stones
The feathers are the AGES OLD religious ceremonies, ceremonies that are held in costumes of a bygone time …it is no longer alive … it is religious opera or musical.
Unfortunately in order for the pleasures of these operas and musicals people are killing and be killed.
That all said … there will always be people with inner experiences that have to digest these experiences and the effect it has on them and their environment.
There will also people be that cry out for help as their own means are exhausted.
They will find a way out
To find the way out ….think of a crab that wants to get out of the box with other crabs …. the other crabs will try to get hold of him and so they all remain on the box.
Do not think that spirituality, religion, rssb is the only box … this blog too and the ideas that are presented here
Well said Um😊👍✨
In the latter days of his life Charan Singh was asked what was the best day of his life and he replied that he could only remember the worst day of his life. He said that the worst day of his life was when he was informed that he was to be Master. It’s a horrible feeling, indescribable. The only thing worse would be if they were kidding when the Honorable Maharaj Gurinder Singh Dhillonji Babaji Ji just said it to make me feel bad. And now I realize that something that he might do considering his mental condition.
Charan Singh was asked in the latter days of his life what his best day ever was and he replied that he could only remember his worst day ever. He said that the worst day of his life was when he was told that he was to be Master . It’s a horrible feeling. Indescribable. The only thing worse is if the Honorable Huzur Maharaj Gurinder Singhji Dhillonji just told me that to make me feel bad.
He, being a man of the world, understood there and than the ongoing emotional and mental onslaught he would have to face from his followers … and …set himself…free….so free that nobody could reach and harm him…and that … brought him in the psychological position for which he is admired.
He did not need to defend himself as the attack could not reach him and get hold of him
A free human he became …free from
There i came to learn about the concept of freedom
Just listen to some Townse Van Zandt and you’ll be okay. But thanks for sticking up for Masters Rights.🙏 Even if you’re still second banana. You’ll never know how bad I want you to feel Don Juan.
My Hero 🤠🤑😇 I wonder if your celebrity signature it’s worth any money on the free market.
Just do the right thing. Are you kidding me? When did you ever do that?
I genuinely think this is a tactic and performative. All gurus said this. The sense of victimhood. Its as if the reluctance makes them seem humble somehow, and a deference to the previous god in human form predecessor.
“Poor me with sudden unearned and unexpected global fame, following, devotion, donations, homes all over the world, obedient unpaid labour to run it, private jets/flights, 24/7 security, unquestioned authority, total subservience from others, being asked for advice everywhere I go, being a major figure celebrity in the world, being the prime figure in my disciples lives”
Wah.
Just imagine yourself in his position .. how long do you think you could endure
…. given what you write here as a mirror of your character I guess not even one hour without getting into an anger fit.
Haha … they all do not to come to give anything from themselves … just remind your own words here.
it really doesn’t mind for a moment anon … you can project on him whatever you want and you are not alone …
You could simple ask your here about the behavior of the audience as a secretary, giver of satsangs and writer …critism is not started and restricted to you and some followers of other gurus
I should not do it but sometimes I compare the behavior of all that follow him with a scenery in which hungry ghost with stretch arms and hands and bony fingers try to lay their hans on what little light passes by
It’s the fucking tears, wailing and crying for me. And how it’s a good thing.
They look mentally ill.
Nothing wrong … normal behavior …all social … and … cultural determined
You might not like it and far below your standards but that is your problem
You have to deal with that mentality every where and every time.
Anon … I just was thinking about what you do here and had to laugh what it would have meant for me having such an mindset when I visited India for the first time …. laugh … because if I would have looked into the world as you do I for sure would have been compelled the plain back to Europe within an hour and never to return ….what all would I not have missed
Staying in Delhi for a while taking reality in through conditioned western eyes is kind of onslaught on its brain.
Lucky me
The Wichita lineman is still on the line.
My letter is on its way to 200 hits. It just shows how hungry people are for a little bit of the truth for a change rather than the go along to get along do the right thing BS we’ve been hearing in the old Spiritual Gems. We don’t need another hero. But I’ll take an offer on that letter if you just want the signature and you know who’s blessed it. I ain’t sentimental. I’ve got a Beatle ticket stub too from Houston 1964 I think. I’ll have Paul sign it first. Do the right thing. Now that is really something coming from you.
Nice interesting post from Anon. Form an immigration perspective, I don’t think future and current tightening of immigration will affect RSSB numbers in the west as much as Anon suggests. But it will certainly make a difference. For instance in Australia the number of international students, many from India, increased considerably after COVID, and now the government are stopping students on lower level courses (doesn’t apply to PhDs I don’t think) from bringing dependants. They are also introducing a quota on the number of student visas issued so this combination will certainly lower the numbers. Similarly perhaps other western countries are now doing the same, or will be in future.
The sociology of religion is an interesting field and would be good to explore more, particularly in relation to groups that originated in India but now have a presence in the west.
Interesting about spirituality moving West. That’s what Maharaji said would happen . My uncle led the charge as he was a Yogananda SRF Monk since the mid 1960s in NYC where he left his profession as an advertising executive. Uncle Phil because Brother Ramananda. Now he’s dead but we both became amateurs. Trust us;
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1004372702908798/?mibextid=ZZyLBr
https://youtu.be/m-ULwTZY8Uw?is=LDblTva8CavA3Uix
Uncle Phil became Brother Ramananda just because you mean that’s how we became vegetarian. It helps to have a fellow one at the table with you . Oh yeah we meditated way before we ever heard of RSSB And then some.
https://youtu.be/m-ULwTZY8Uw?is=LDblTva8CavA3Uix
https://youtu.be/m-ULwTZY8Uw?si=ThDj9dmHmBtZb08M
Hi Anon
You wrote
“However one vow doesn’t land – following the guru.”
It isn’t a vow, Anon.
This error undermines your claim to be an initiate and places the credibility of your essay in doubt.
Most Western kids aren’t like they were in the 1970s now. They don’t care much about being a vegetarian or meditating. It almost sounds too woke and too much trouble. Healthcare has become more important than health. And us that really need it won’t be around long enough to care. This talk about God men Babaji speaks out against it and then he walks around like one. I never viewed my uncle as a God man . I hope Jazdip is reading this and doesn’t view me as one either .
Back in the late 1960s Yoko Ono famously said that “guru”was the ” rockstar”of the East. And Gurinder Singh has pretended to be one and actually compared himself to a another Dylan and so far as idol worship. It’s like Bollywood. Now he’s going ninety miles an hour down a dead end street.
The author writes
“the concept of a spiritual guru just doesn’t exist like it did momentarily in the 1970s – almost half a century ago.”
It has existed throughout time:spritual teacher, spiritual student, path of the audible Holy spirit. There are examples in the west just as there are in the east down through recorded history.
The pull to the Teacher comes from within.
The pursuit of the spiritual teacher has only adapted itself to the times, though the practice is the same.
The path is universal and will continue to exist in different cultures and times.
Amy’s frozen food made vegetarian food universally available to everyone. Yes RSSB was central to the growth of vegetarianism in America.
Huzur, as a Cambridge and MIT scientist and business executive is much more qualified to bringing the message of Sant Mat to the modern world.
He is much better suited to this time and place than you or I.
His philosophy is right on target for the times, “If you want to be understood it’s more important that you become a better listener first.”
Women with backgrounds in science, education, medicine and management hold what appears to be half or more of the leadership roles in the organization.
Again, fully prepared to meet the needs of the times.
Atheism has grown from 6% to 10% globally (Europe at 14%, China at 35% and the US at 4-7%.)
Only about half the people who say they don’t believe in God chose to call themselves Atheist, according to the Pew polls.
And in addition there are about 28% of the population who choose the label “non-religious” and “spiritual but not religious”.
These figures show a widening gap, much larger than the growth of atheism, who reject any affiliation, including Atheism.
All seekers are in this growing group.
The question is:
What do they seek?
And not:
What can be found.
Given the letters i received from mcs, that clearly stated what sant mat meditation was all about and what previous masters wrote about seekers, most seekers have no interest …or…to use his words .. practice for ulterior motives
Not that i am interested
“The question is: What do they seek? And not: What can be found.”
The obvious reason one still seeks is that the process of seeking continues, and seeking means we are not willing or satisfied with who/what we are. This doesn’t mean being a fatalist, putting up with bad situations, or refusing to improve our situation, etc.
The seeker, in spiritual terms, is always looking for something that is hoped will reveal a life that does not include all the vicissitudes of everyday life. Certainty, meaning and security are what is sought, or in other words, a life that conforms to one’s ideas, beliefs or hopes that we are not simply just another organic creature on this Earth.
So, the thinking, the running around from one teacher, one belief or another still goes on. Meanwhile, in the real world, birth happens, living goes on with all its vagaries and uncertainties, and finally death ends it all. Seeking, in the spiritual sense, is avoiding who/what we are and pursuing a more satisfying ‘me’ perpetuated or inculcated through various mind-created concepts.
The comments on this blog reflect the fact of the feeling that whoever and whatever we are, it is not enough – so we search for the antidote. Meanwhile, in the real world, the natural world that we all belong to, live in and have our being in – with all its vagaries – goes on regardless of our thought-generated beliefs, desires and projections.
According the narrative, what you write, makes sense under the condition one feels at home in that narrative
For one that has no inner experiences going on or did not have one, this narrative, the world is as it is, attributes meaning and value, that is comforting.. no doubt … but …in the world as it is, appear people that have absorbs of inner experiences and given the content of these experiences one has to accept that they did have huge impact on attributing meaning and value on the world as it is….unless … all these prophets, sages, artists, visionaries, medicine men and women shamans, etc are to be seen as liars or worse.
Non religious content is easier to accept than so called religious philosophical … that for sure.
If the content of an experience is not understood, or does not otherwise fits in the world as it is nobody will heed it in the long run
The decedent’s of the tribe of Abraham have always had reason to believe the content of Abraham’s inner experience .. the problem is however, that the rest of humanity in those days up to this day are not informed in the same way as Abraham was informed .. so …they do not believe it and so they will oppose that land will be taken from them…and rivers of blood were and are shed … that too …is as it is
Hi Um
All of us have layers of mind, bias, conditioning, limited vision and understanding. Therefore generally our motives, actions, understanding begin as mistaken.
But the pull comes from a deeper place within, a pure place, a higher place. Our very source.
We may misinterpret it, but by engaging in the practice we begin to see things from a larger, more mature perspective, s happier place, layer by layer, stage by stage, over time.
There is where we start, generally flawed. And then there is where we end up, pure, unflawed. Why? Because the process is a natural one, not of our invention. It already exists, and in time we see it.
All seekers of the divine are destined in time to become one with that regardless of where we start. Our source is the same, like destination the same.
We need not be too concerned about the twists and turns each of us must take to overcome our past and get there, to that divine within.
What we see is illusion, not the whole and not the real.
According the narrative, what you write, makes sense under the condition he feels at home in that narrative.
The perspective of those that have inner experiences or had, no matter how they came to be, on life are different from the rest.
For the rest it is hear say and empty talk.
That … that, i realise, might be frustrating for these that have these experiences